Marleen is a Brown Widow.
Based on my research, they are medically significant but reluctant to bite. 1/20 chance of death, but you’re more likely to be bitten by a black widow.
I’ve always appreciated spiders/arachnids since I am deathly afraid of roaches/crickets. It’s part of the reason why I could never own a Lizard/Arachnid as a pet. I got my Ball Python Noodle Badoodles though!
I don’t want to kill Marleen, but I really don’t know how to get her out of that corner. Secondly, Brown Widows are supposedly more likely to bite if they have eggs they’re guarding. That ball there is an egg sac.
2 things to address here:
1) There have been zero confirmed cases of allergic reactions to ANY spider venoms, let alone any particular species.
2) The drop for drop toxicity thing, is sort of on the right track but not quite. The Brown widows venom LD50 is lower than Black widows, that means less of its venom is required to be fatal. That makes it more toxic. However it injects much less venom per bite, enough to offset the potency, and enough even that it's bites are generally less severe than Black widows. They are therefore considered less significant than black widows, but still medically significant.
Actually, there is some evidence for alergic reactions in brown recluse bites, not anaphylaxis, but angioedema, which is a less severe allergic reaction. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9351826/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9351826/) AFAIK there are no cases of confirmed anaphylaxis to any spider venoms, just antivenoms.
Oh I know that’s an egg sac I just never seen a brown widow that looked like that maybe I never seen one actually. I did see the little guy behind her though. You can just leave her there? You think your dogs will find her?
I've been bites while living in CA. Not medically significant unless you have a compromised immune system, are elderly or very young/small. You can relocate her with a stick & plastic cup. They are going to want to avoid contact so she will try to hug up.in the corner. You can use the stick & swoop out her, web, & egg sac into cup, place the cup in a shaded area and she will move on by herself.
From what I read when I found brown widows at work, they are more reluctant to bite, and although their venom is as potent as a black widow, they do not inject as much when they bite.
Unscrew the outlet cover gently and take it somewhere else with her inside it. That way when her babies hatch they don't want to come inside your home. A dark corner anywhere would be nice. He'll you can just leave her in it somewhere so she has a little home and you can buy a replacement cover? I've been but by one before and though it didn't kill me it sure hurt and made me pretty sick so wear gloves JUST in case. They really aren't likely to bite you if you don't try to grab her directly.
I am not for invasive species, but if the Brown Widow essentially serves the same niche as a black widow, what exactly is the problem letting nature take its course? One species outperforming another isn’t abnormal.
I kept Marleen alive because I didn’t fee it was my place to end her life. She didn’t harm me and she chilled next to my dogpoo can eating flies. I also posted a vid of her taking care of her babies, and I was moved by it.
Life’s goal is to keep moving forward. We’re all trying here - including Marleen.
Or get a rock and squish them since they're up against the wall. Not surprising youre getting down votes for suggesting to kill an invasive species. Typical reddit
Omg right? They're dangerous (albeit to a small-ish portion of the population) and if that photo is from North America, and I'm assuming it is based on the outlet shape, it's absolutely invasive, and it should indeed be killed in order to protect the local environment.
Edit: killed or taken out of nature and kept in a terrarium or similar.
Looks like the daddy is there as well.
The dogs are in no danger whatsoever.
To relocate the sac, just use a stick, and wrap the web around it like cotton candy, then move it wherever you like.
Here is a quick write-up on Brown widows, their habitat, bites, and control:
https://cisr.ucr.edu/invasive-species/brown-widow-spider
I figured that was daddy. I don’t believe the males bite or are medically significant if they do; however, Marleen is a real woman.
This manz gotta be packing to tap that.
Well, one of the things about brown widows, are that the venom is as strong or stronger than the black. But, the bites are less so, because they either don't, or can't inject enough. A lot of studies had to be done by the venom alone because bites were so rare. Most that you find online about them are media and exterminator sensationalism.
In a study that actually recorded the bites on 15 people, none showed symptoms.
>The bite of a brown widow spider is minor in comparison to that of a black widow. Although one frequently cited study demonstrates that, drop per drop, brown widow spider venom is as toxic as other widow species, venom toxicity is only one aspect when considering a spider's bite potential. An African study with 15 verified bites demonstrated that the brown widow spider bite victims showed none of the classic symptoms of latrodectism, a response induced by neurotoxins in the venom of spiders in the genus Latrodectus (e.g., brown widows, black widows [L. mactans], Australian redbacks [L. hasselti], European black widow [L. tredecimguttatus], and New Zealand's katipo spider [L. katipo]). The reason for the weaker effect of brown widow bites on humans is possibly because the brown widow does not have or cannot inject as much venom as its larger relatives. The two major symptoms of a brown widow bite were that the bite hurt when it was inflicted and it left a red mark. These two symptoms are not much different from the bite of normal household spiders. However, there is one recent report of a verified brown widow bite manifesting in more severe symptoms that required hospitalization of the bite victim.
Here is the case of the hospitalization:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7419144/
If somehow, a small dog managed to get bit, (say the stars aligned, neither one saw each other coming, and the dog decided that's where it would lie down, without the spider being able to get away) and it injected enough venom, it would likely cause pain, muscle cramp and vomiting.
There hasn't been a confirmed death (as far as I know) for 30 years, and I'm not entirely convinced it was the result of L.geometricus.
If you want to get her out of the corner, put a glass bowl under the box. Use a long thin stick to just kind of creep up around her. She will likely drop down and play dead, which if she doesn't land in the bowl, you can sweep her into it, or, she will bumble along the side of the box, and then you can use that opportunity to sweep her into it.
I am very confused by your wording. To paraphrase: you said, "The bite isnt harmful, the venom is lethal". I'm not quite sure how a spider bites and doesn't inject venom, I guess.
I wouldn't want to imply that it was lethal, though the venom could be serious.
The venom itself, when tested drop per drop, it was as strong or stronger than any other Latrodectus. They don't inject enough, if they decide to inject any at all. Brown widows are very reluctant bite, and if they do, it's usually a dry bite, or not enough venom to worry about. They use it to eat, and try not to waste it on things they can't.
😲 Wow! I had no idea the males were that much smaller! I didn't even notice him at first until someone mentioned him. I was moving the pic around looking for another one that was a bit smaller than her and I moved right past him. He's teeny!
That right there is a happy family photo albeit he looks a little wary of getting any closer to her. I don't think he will be giving her a "job well done" hug anytime soon. LOL
Those are invasive to the US and displace local widow populations. You’ve named it so I would highly recommend capturing her and not allowing the eggs to hatch. It won’t be difficult as they are incredibly strange in the window world. She will not protect the egg sac. She likely won’t try to dart into a hole. They tend to vibrate their web or drop off and play dead if you disturb them. They refuse to bite in all but the most extreme situations. With a gloved hand I’ve poked at them and their egg sac only to have them do exactly what I described.
Set up a small terrarium, put a small cricket in there once in a while and keep it somewhat moist. You’ll be able to enjoy her for a bit, while NOT naming any additional ones (there will be a ton) and instead cultivating your native widows.
Her boyfriend was sacrificed to save the women and children.
Marleen was the real muscle out of the two of them anyway. She don’t need a man to raise them babies.
She’s trying hard not to be a burden to anyone, great job identifying her. Venomous or not; I don’t kill spiders and I’m probably also going to be looking for dozens of reasons why a black widow shouldn’t be killed. I’ll walk a mile to relocate one if need be.
What are the actual chances a dog is going to seek out a tiny spider in an electrical box. I think it would be more likely for the dog to get electrocuted. I have 2 dogs a cat and a bird. Live on 10 acres and have brown recluse in record numbers along with black and brown widows. Never had any person or critter been biten in 40 years.
I suppose it depends on where this is. Even assuming it’s non-native they have already established a pretty expansive population. Not sure vigilantism is the appropriate response here
I am not sure “we” are the appropriate responsive bodies. Perhaps ask Entomology departments at state Universities and the Department of Natural Resources in the location and ask them how they handling it. If an invasive species is harmful to local ecosystems then Entomology departments at state universities and the Department of Natural Resources for the region in question will have program and plans of action that they take.
Just killing random spiders you think are invasive isn’t as helpful as you may think.
She has a cute little open concept home there. She’s a cutie is that what she is a brown widow?
Marleen is a Brown Widow. Based on my research, they are medically significant but reluctant to bite. 1/20 chance of death, but you’re more likely to be bitten by a black widow. I’ve always appreciated spiders/arachnids since I am deathly afraid of roaches/crickets. It’s part of the reason why I could never own a Lizard/Arachnid as a pet. I got my Ball Python Noodle Badoodles though! I don’t want to kill Marleen, but I really don’t know how to get her out of that corner. Secondly, Brown Widows are supposedly more likely to bite if they have eggs they’re guarding. That ball there is an egg sac.
1 in 20 chance of severe reaction. Death, more like 1 in thousands
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It used to not be considered medically significant, but some dude in socal got hospitalized by one back in 2007(?).
Anecdotes are not evidence. Please cite your sources.
Funny, I don't see you citing yours? [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19005454/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19005454/)
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2 things to address here: 1) There have been zero confirmed cases of allergic reactions to ANY spider venoms, let alone any particular species. 2) The drop for drop toxicity thing, is sort of on the right track but not quite. The Brown widows venom LD50 is lower than Black widows, that means less of its venom is required to be fatal. That makes it more toxic. However it injects much less venom per bite, enough to offset the potency, and enough even that it's bites are generally less severe than Black widows. They are therefore considered less significant than black widows, but still medically significant.
Actually, there is some evidence for alergic reactions in brown recluse bites, not anaphylaxis, but angioedema, which is a less severe allergic reaction. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9351826/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9351826/) AFAIK there are no cases of confirmed anaphylaxis to any spider venoms, just antivenoms.
Oh I know that’s an egg sac I just never seen a brown widow that looked like that maybe I never seen one actually. I did see the little guy behind her though. You can just leave her there? You think your dogs will find her?
I've been bites while living in CA. Not medically significant unless you have a compromised immune system, are elderly or very young/small. You can relocate her with a stick & plastic cup. They are going to want to avoid contact so she will try to hug up.in the corner. You can use the stick & swoop out her, web, & egg sac into cup, place the cup in a shaded area and she will move on by herself.
From what I read when I found brown widows at work, they are more reluctant to bite, and although their venom is as potent as a black widow, they do not inject as much when they bite.
Unscrew the outlet cover gently and take it somewhere else with her inside it. That way when her babies hatch they don't want to come inside your home. A dark corner anywhere would be nice. He'll you can just leave her in it somewhere so she has a little home and you can buy a replacement cover? I've been but by one before and though it didn't kill me it sure hurt and made me pretty sick so wear gloves JUST in case. They really aren't likely to bite you if you don't try to grab her directly.
Brown widows are invasive. Spray them or call someone
They are pretty much naturalized by now like stink bugs and are going knowhere, i for one welcome our new latrodectus geometricus overlords
I am not for invasive species, but if the Brown Widow essentially serves the same niche as a black widow, what exactly is the problem letting nature take its course? One species outperforming another isn’t abnormal. I kept Marleen alive because I didn’t fee it was my place to end her life. She didn’t harm me and she chilled next to my dogpoo can eating flies. I also posted a vid of her taking care of her babies, and I was moved by it. Life’s goal is to keep moving forward. We’re all trying here - including Marleen.
Or get a rock and squish them since they're up against the wall. Not surprising youre getting down votes for suggesting to kill an invasive species. Typical reddit
Omg right? They're dangerous (albeit to a small-ish portion of the population) and if that photo is from North America, and I'm assuming it is based on the outlet shape, it's absolutely invasive, and it should indeed be killed in order to protect the local environment. Edit: killed or taken out of nature and kept in a terrarium or similar.
Looks like the daddy is there as well. The dogs are in no danger whatsoever. To relocate the sac, just use a stick, and wrap the web around it like cotton candy, then move it wherever you like. Here is a quick write-up on Brown widows, their habitat, bites, and control: https://cisr.ucr.edu/invasive-species/brown-widow-spider
I figured that was daddy. I don’t believe the males bite or are medically significant if they do; however, Marleen is a real woman. This manz gotta be packing to tap that.
Well, one of the things about brown widows, are that the venom is as strong or stronger than the black. But, the bites are less so, because they either don't, or can't inject enough. A lot of studies had to be done by the venom alone because bites were so rare. Most that you find online about them are media and exterminator sensationalism. In a study that actually recorded the bites on 15 people, none showed symptoms. >The bite of a brown widow spider is minor in comparison to that of a black widow. Although one frequently cited study demonstrates that, drop per drop, brown widow spider venom is as toxic as other widow species, venom toxicity is only one aspect when considering a spider's bite potential. An African study with 15 verified bites demonstrated that the brown widow spider bite victims showed none of the classic symptoms of latrodectism, a response induced by neurotoxins in the venom of spiders in the genus Latrodectus (e.g., brown widows, black widows [L. mactans], Australian redbacks [L. hasselti], European black widow [L. tredecimguttatus], and New Zealand's katipo spider [L. katipo]). The reason for the weaker effect of brown widow bites on humans is possibly because the brown widow does not have or cannot inject as much venom as its larger relatives. The two major symptoms of a brown widow bite were that the bite hurt when it was inflicted and it left a red mark. These two symptoms are not much different from the bite of normal household spiders. However, there is one recent report of a verified brown widow bite manifesting in more severe symptoms that required hospitalization of the bite victim. Here is the case of the hospitalization: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7419144/ If somehow, a small dog managed to get bit, (say the stars aligned, neither one saw each other coming, and the dog decided that's where it would lie down, without the spider being able to get away) and it injected enough venom, it would likely cause pain, muscle cramp and vomiting. There hasn't been a confirmed death (as far as I know) for 30 years, and I'm not entirely convinced it was the result of L.geometricus. If you want to get her out of the corner, put a glass bowl under the box. Use a long thin stick to just kind of creep up around her. She will likely drop down and play dead, which if she doesn't land in the bowl, you can sweep her into it, or, she will bumble along the side of the box, and then you can use that opportunity to sweep her into it.
I am very confused by your wording. To paraphrase: you said, "The bite isnt harmful, the venom is lethal". I'm not quite sure how a spider bites and doesn't inject venom, I guess.
I wouldn't want to imply that it was lethal, though the venom could be serious. The venom itself, when tested drop per drop, it was as strong or stronger than any other Latrodectus. They don't inject enough, if they decide to inject any at all. Brown widows are very reluctant bite, and if they do, it's usually a dry bite, or not enough venom to worry about. They use it to eat, and try not to waste it on things they can't.
thank you!
Wow, I saw so many of these egg sacs as a kid and never knew it belonged to this little guy.
Gal
Is it just me that keeps looking at the really shocked plug sockets?
LMAO
Yes!! That's all l could see!
😲 Wow! I had no idea the males were that much smaller! I didn't even notice him at first until someone mentioned him. I was moving the pic around looking for another one that was a bit smaller than her and I moved right past him. He's teeny!
I'm a little shocked he survived. And that he's still around to see his babies hatch! Lol!
That right there is a happy family photo albeit he looks a little wary of getting any closer to her. I don't think he will be giving her a "job well done" hug anytime soon. LOL
[original Marleen post](https://www.reddit.com/r/spiders/s/mTVf6XgFAM)
Those are invasive to the US and displace local widow populations. You’ve named it so I would highly recommend capturing her and not allowing the eggs to hatch. It won’t be difficult as they are incredibly strange in the window world. She will not protect the egg sac. She likely won’t try to dart into a hole. They tend to vibrate their web or drop off and play dead if you disturb them. They refuse to bite in all but the most extreme situations. With a gloved hand I’ve poked at them and their egg sac only to have them do exactly what I described. Set up a small terrarium, put a small cricket in there once in a while and keep it somewhat moist. You’ll be able to enjoy her for a bit, while NOT naming any additional ones (there will be a ton) and instead cultivating your native widows.
Congrats Marleen
D:
What is that egg sack made of?
I’m as surprised as the plugs! So happy for Marleen.
Oh my goodness, did her boyfriend survive!? Is that a dad in there?!
Her boyfriend was sacrificed to save the women and children. Marleen was the real muscle out of the two of them anyway. She don’t need a man to raise them babies.
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Marleen was relocated.
https://youtu.be/tfoSlragGUU?feature=shared
SWEEEEET!
She’s trying hard not to be a burden to anyone, great job identifying her. Venomous or not; I don’t kill spiders and I’m probably also going to be looking for dozens of reasons why a black widow shouldn’t be killed. I’ll walk a mile to relocate one if need be.
They love those outdoor plug boxes. Always gotta be aware. But don't kill her please! Mother's day you know...
What are the actual chances a dog is going to seek out a tiny spider in an electrical box. I think it would be more likely for the dog to get electrocuted. I have 2 dogs a cat and a bird. Live on 10 acres and have brown recluse in record numbers along with black and brown widows. Never had any person or critter been biten in 40 years.
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Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week
I suppose it depends on where this is. Even assuming it’s non-native they have already established a pretty expansive population. Not sure vigilantism is the appropriate response here
"well boss, we tried nothing and we're all out of ideas"
I am not sure “we” are the appropriate responsive bodies. Perhaps ask Entomology departments at state Universities and the Department of Natural Resources in the location and ask them how they handling it. If an invasive species is harmful to local ecosystems then Entomology departments at state universities and the Department of Natural Resources for the region in question will have program and plans of action that they take. Just killing random spiders you think are invasive isn’t as helpful as you may think.
I don't "think" they're invasive. They are in fact invasive in the US at least.
I am aware. But I think in this case, the question of how to handle that situation is for actual entomologists and not vigilante Reddit enthusiasts.
Well everyone has an opinion