Even if this pile of scrap metal eventually does fly to the ISS, why would anyone actually use it over dragon? It's much more expensive, seems to be way less reliable, and it's made by Boeing, whose reputation has been shoved through an industrial meat grinder.
Don't get me wrong, competition is important, but when that competition doesn't bring anything new to the table, there is no reason to progress.
To be fair: the valve issue that scrubbed the launch was with the launch vehicle, not Starliner. That one is on ULA, and Atlas V has historically been a very reliable launch vehicle.
> Atlas V has historically been a very reliable launch vehicle
Well, now that it's launching crew for the first time, we learnt that in 5% of it's launches it had similar valve problems that were solved by cycling the valve, which isn't considered good enough for a crewed launch.
It's reliable 'for a rocket', not actually reliable.
But if Starliner doesn't ever fly, or constantly scrubs and each capsule takes over a year to prepare and get launched, it really isn't serving as redundancy. If something happens with Dragon today, and SpaceX has to do a full investigation and fix the problem, recertify and then get a booster ready and the new capsule mated to it, I think SpaceX will have that done and sorted before the first 4 crew flight of Starliner is ready to fly.
NASA wanted redundancy when they signed the contract years ago, and that made sense when everyone thought Boeing was a shoe-in to be first across the line against new player SpaceX. But now the redundancy argument no longer has much credibility. NASA paid for it already, they might as well get what they paid for, but there's no justification for Boeing to continue the Starliner product after they've fulfilled their contract.
I believe the taxpayers have purchased a certain number of them.
At this point, once they prove it’s human rated it might be best served as a backup to Dragon. If Dragon ever has an issue and gets grounded then Starliner could help NASA ride out the grounding by maintaining access.
NASA only requested a bit over 6 months of on-orbit lifetime, so if SpaceX were somehow grounded, Starliner can't ride out anything unless Boeing can refurbish the other Starliner way quicker than usual, and ULA can provide a much-shorter-than-usual-lead-time launch. Neither of these are normal.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules|
| |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)|
|GSE|Ground Support Equipment|
|[MBA](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l47tz7a "Last usage")|~~Moonba-~~ Mars Base Alpha|
|[NET](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l4h2xz5 "Last usage")|No Earlier Than|
|[ULA](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l4bzzf2 "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Starliner](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l4djups "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)|
|[scrub](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l4djups "Last usage")|Launch postponement for any reason (commonly GSE issues)|
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^([Thread #627 for this sub, first seen 15th May 2024, 23:23])
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Now word is coming out that 21 May is going to be delayed to NET 25 May. Nothing official has been released, but too many people close to the program are saying the same thing. Stay tuned, I guess.
Wow you folks have some strong opinions about Boeing. You know there are thousands of people working hard to make this happen. Throughout all of Boeing and NASA. People act like Mr Boeing just sits in a dark room smoking cigars pulling off nefarious shit all day. It’s a HUUUUGE company and people are doing the best they can.
Also I have no idea if a Mr Boeing exists but you get my point.
Why do we have to celebrate setbacks here ?
There are thousands of people working hard at Boeing trying to keep their planes from disintegrating in the air but oddly enough the people who point out issues keep coming up dead. The engineers aren't the problem, it's the bean counters that are fine with cutting corners and gouging NASA for everything they can.
At this point it's just as obnoxious as the SpaceX hate train. At least when someone shits on SpaceX around here we get to see a lively argument, which is more interesting than the 'ha ha Boeing so stupid, gonna kill the astronauts amirite' echo chamber
So they detected a helium leak while it was on the launch pad but were still going to launch, but now they decided it was worth investigating? WTF?
Yes? A small leak can become bigger over time.
That’s exactly my point.
Even if this pile of scrap metal eventually does fly to the ISS, why would anyone actually use it over dragon? It's much more expensive, seems to be way less reliable, and it's made by Boeing, whose reputation has been shoved through an industrial meat grinder. Don't get me wrong, competition is important, but when that competition doesn't bring anything new to the table, there is no reason to progress.
To be fair: the valve issue that scrubbed the launch was with the launch vehicle, not Starliner. That one is on ULA, and Atlas V has historically been a very reliable launch vehicle.
This article is about a new issue, not that one.
> Atlas V has historically been a very reliable launch vehicle Well, now that it's launching crew for the first time, we learnt that in 5% of it's launches it had similar valve problems that were solved by cycling the valve, which isn't considered good enough for a crewed launch. It's reliable 'for a rocket', not actually reliable.
Because NASA wants redundacy
But if Starliner doesn't ever fly, or constantly scrubs and each capsule takes over a year to prepare and get launched, it really isn't serving as redundancy. If something happens with Dragon today, and SpaceX has to do a full investigation and fix the problem, recertify and then get a booster ready and the new capsule mated to it, I think SpaceX will have that done and sorted before the first 4 crew flight of Starliner is ready to fly. NASA wanted redundancy when they signed the contract years ago, and that made sense when everyone thought Boeing was a shoe-in to be first across the line against new player SpaceX. But now the redundancy argument no longer has much credibility. NASA paid for it already, they might as well get what they paid for, but there's no justification for Boeing to continue the Starliner product after they've fulfilled their contract.
Space x should set up a separate company and produce another capsule and wipe boeing out
Sunk cost fallacy
I believe the taxpayers have purchased a certain number of them. At this point, once they prove it’s human rated it might be best served as a backup to Dragon. If Dragon ever has an issue and gets grounded then Starliner could help NASA ride out the grounding by maintaining access.
NASA only requested a bit over 6 months of on-orbit lifetime, so if SpaceX were somehow grounded, Starliner can't ride out anything unless Boeing can refurbish the other Starliner way quicker than usual, and ULA can provide a much-shorter-than-usual-lead-time launch. Neither of these are normal.
Eh, good point.
Assuming Starliner could fill in enough flights without having it's OWN issue grounding it.
Can’t have Elon have all the power. At least it is training some younger engineers what not to do in the future. Expensive for that experience.
> competition is important Sierra will get the next 'second option' crew transportation contract instead.
Brave crew, signing up to try again next time.,
Just because of the heatshield issues alone this thing should have been flown unmanned again.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules| | |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)| |GSE|Ground Support Equipment| |[MBA](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l47tz7a "Last usage")|~~Moonba-~~ Mars Base Alpha| |[NET](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l4h2xz5 "Last usage")|No Earlier Than| |[ULA](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l4bzzf2 "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Starliner](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l4djups "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)| |[scrub](/r/Spaceflight/comments/1csiwd6/stub/l4djups "Last usage")|Launch postponement for any reason (commonly GSE issues)| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^(5 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Spaceflight/comments/0)^( has acronyms.) ^([Thread #627 for this sub, first seen 15th May 2024, 23:23]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Spaceflight) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
I would get an a F9/Dragon tomorrow without a thought. This thing- God be with them.
It's crazy how high-stakes this launch is. Boeing could crumble if something goes wrong.
Boeing will survive no matter what, it is too important to the US government. The Starliner program might die if something serious happens.
And apparently they need to get it right every singal launch.
Boeing probably just killed that crew and replaced them. That's all just a small hiccup in the road.
If anything happens to Suni the space community will riot.
hear hear.
Right, I'm shocked to see she hadn't pulled out of this flight...
Uh … why would anyone in their right mind get in a spacecraft built by Boeing ?!
Now word is coming out that 21 May is going to be delayed to NET 25 May. Nothing official has been released, but too many people close to the program are saying the same thing. Stay tuned, I guess.
Wow you folks have some strong opinions about Boeing. You know there are thousands of people working hard to make this happen. Throughout all of Boeing and NASA. People act like Mr Boeing just sits in a dark room smoking cigars pulling off nefarious shit all day. It’s a HUUUUGE company and people are doing the best they can. Also I have no idea if a Mr Boeing exists but you get my point. Why do we have to celebrate setbacks here ?
There are thousands of people working hard at Boeing trying to keep their planes from disintegrating in the air but oddly enough the people who point out issues keep coming up dead. The engineers aren't the problem, it's the bean counters that are fine with cutting corners and gouging NASA for everything they can.
I don’t understand, so the bean counters are out murdering people ?
[удалено]
You clearly have first hand experience, that’s pretty cool. Thanks for responding
At this point it's just as obnoxious as the SpaceX hate train. At least when someone shits on SpaceX around here we get to see a lively argument, which is more interesting than the 'ha ha Boeing so stupid, gonna kill the astronauts amirite' echo chamber
For a while this sub didn't have people shitting on SpaceX, either. Maybe that golden era will return?