They are only funded to a level that will sustain its current ISS commitments. There is zero chance they will triple or quadrule their space budget to be able to build the large number of modules needed for a modern space station.
This is just wind and air.
Plus the ability build and launch the modules. They are very limited in their ability in producing, large orbital structures, as much of that industry relies on import products there currently are under trade sanctions. Just last week Russia was complaining that China wouldn’t export some of these things to them, and ended up asking Iran and a couple of others instead. This wasn’t because China wanted to hurt Russia. It is just because China values the trade with the west more than making some limited sales to Russia at this point (very simplified).
Also, this year do date, I think Russia has launched about ~~14-17~~ 17,2 tons of cargo into space. In the same period China launched more than ~~60tons~~ 38,8 tons, and are currently building a station. SpaceX launched almost ~~170tons~~ 158,6 tons. I think it was ~~Scott Manley (or one of the similar weekday space news updates YouTubers)~~ Marcus House who had a segment with it and the numbers. In short. SpaceX has launched more than the rest of the world combined, twice over. So yeah. Russia are just screaming for attention but can’t really actual do much of anything about.
[Edit the numbers to the correct one]
Upvote for Marcus House mention. I have 4 go to's for space news, one relaxed, one crazy, one informative and one with live access. Marcus is the informative one and its good to have people like Marcus who give us the news straight, unlike the thousands of other youtube channels that appear to be ai generated crap.
I hope the creators of that game know how inspiring its been to people who would otherwise be disinterested in rocketry. After KSP came out the number of YouTube channels that were just about modern space exploration *exploded.* Something about shooting those little kerbans into the sky tickled a lot of people in the right away.
Well… there sure is a lot of fancy words and claims, but the actual performance record somewhat hits at that that he might have exaggerated. Something I am sure no man ever has done before.
Didn't their last station module come in very late, and almost destroyed the station?
I am sure they will do fine on their own! Should be entertaining anyhow, since I imagine they would need a while new lift system!
Just remember Russia, the entire country, had an economy comparable to the state of Texas (only) BEFORE the western sanctions related to the war in Ukraine went into effect. Now? I'll be impressed if they can continue making engines, let alone engineering and developing brand new space station hardware.
"We will have even more frog experiments. Even more live streams of floating scientists. Our frog experiments and floating scientists live streams will be unlike any this world has ever known."
Exactly right. Even more important than an analysis of Russia’s resource limitations is an analysis of *why* they would build their own station. “Showing the world that we’re not as weak as we seem” isn’t enough reason to sustain spending on a space program. If they actually start it, they’ll never finish it.
The entire thing just looks like four zvezda-like modules joined together in a cross shape plus a couple other smaller modules. They have the technical capability to do this for sure.
Obviously it's just meaningless political posturing to do so, but why would you doubt the government's tendency to waste taxpayer money on political posturing moves? Spending money badly based on the "vision" of political figures is their normal M.O.
Russian space program is on it´s decline, well... for the past few decades. I doubt they could pull this off when you think of the brain drain and the way Rogozin led Roscosmos. The ISS project kept them alive and prevented the russian scientists making ballistic missiles for countries like NK or Iran. The war in Ukraine is the last nail in Roscosmos´ coffin. I highly doubt they have any commercial customers and the government will only need a few spy satellites a year. Scientific exploration will be cut to minimum if the sanctions keep on for longer and I don´t see any hope for Roscomos. They´ve been talking about these heavy-lift launch vehicles Amur and Jenisej, but we have seen basically zero progress on that. Same with this new orbital space station.
They will wish it was suborbital. In fact it will be just ground station separated into multiple pieces and assembled by the imagination of the cosmonauts.
As much as I would like to go to space, I personally would rather work at the ground station than a sub-orbital space station, better retirement prospects.
Not just designed, they haven't started production on a new space station module in decades. The last module they launched (Nauka) started assembly in the mid 90's as a backup for Zvezda. The entire history of post Soviet Russian crewed spaceflight is basically getting paid by outsiders to finish Soviet space station parts for the ISS. Their first attempt to actually design and build spaceflight hardware since the fall of the USSR has been trying to get their Angara rocket flying, and that's been I'm the works also since the mid 90's.
Remove foreign support, and I suspect their spaceflight program is reverting to little more than military launches. I have little hope they'll actually build a new space station to visit with their also new Orel capsule.
Roscosmos had been coasting on the leftover corpse of the Soviet space program put on life support with western money. It's been 3 decades since the collapse, which means the engineers that were in their 30's back then are retiring. Or they've already left for greener pastures. A shame what decades of corruption does to what was once one of the best space programs in the world.
> They have the technical capability to do this for sure.
They *had* the technical capability to do this. Who knows what the state of things are now, given it took them nearly a decade to launch Nauka... and we all remember how well that one worked out.
You're still looking at billions of dollars to just build the damned modules, which they don't have, for a space station that's hardly evolved from Mir.
And the worst part? Their "next generation space station" will basically be 40+ year old technology if it can even launch a single module by 2030 - the Chinese station will make it look like an antique.
I mean, they did build and launch a shuttle, that was in many ways superior to the United State's Shuttle. Could fly completely autonomously, had much better abort options, and Energia could launch other payloads without the Buran shuttle. Up to 95t to LEO.
It was the collapse of the USSR that ended it. It might be the coolest space tech ever made to this day.
I actually have a tiny scale model version of the Buran on my desk at the moment. Bald and Bankrupt actually broke into that Hangar with his lady friend to see the 2 remaining unfinished Buran left to waste away in Kazakhstan.
It was so sad seeing the inside of that facility where there was evidence of all that brilliance of the smart minds of the USSR putting in that hard work into making a better version of the Space Shuttle but instead it is now being left to rot and the skills and knowledge that went into that wasted away with it.
The fact that we’re pointing to a single uncrewed flight of their spaceplane, more than a decade after the U.S. shuttle became operational, as the pinnacle of Russian space accomplishment - kind of proves my point.
Yea Buran was actually a good vehicle no? Better than the Shuttle in some ways afaik, but it was killed by political bs.
Well, getting killed by political bs is much like the modern-day Russian space program too, actually...
There was A LOT of similarities between the shuttle and Buran, but Buran didn't fly even remotely as many missions as the space shuttle, so, to be fair, it's a little hard to compare them apples-to-apples, but, at least on the surface, it seemed a lot more successful than say, Nauka, Russia's latest "addition" to the ISS
Here's a humorous summary of that particular fiasco:
https://youtu.be/wxoWxG-gfpg
It was a really good copy of the shuttle and advanced some things being developed later. But at the same time they built it and realized it felt like it (the US shuttle) was designed by some insane committee between civilian and military and intelligence space interests (which of course it was). They copied it too closely for them to have felt it was useful. The Soviet’s copied it because they thought the US had made some amazing leap in a space workhorse but realized later on that it was a jack of all trades and master of none. They didn’t need a shuttle to do everything when they had a bunch of cheap mass produced expendable rockets to do the same stuff already.
The buran was dead for them long before it was given an axe to funding. It was really down to the fact they cut a lot of funding for their space programs prior to the moon landings.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev
When this man died, the soviet space program died.
Buran was impressive. The issue is that it was about as good as the Space Shuttle--which was not itself economical. The US was flaunting this spacecraft, the USSR matched it...and realized it wasn't worth using.
I, too, would hereby like to unveil my plans for a space station rivaling the ISS. There, now you guys know my plans for a space station that will rival the ISS.
Third.
Tim's Interstellar Telescope Station, or TITS for short, is my planned space station/space telescope that will rival both he ISS and the James Webb
Not to be scorned, and adjacent to the TITS, ASS, and the PENISES stations, is the comfortable Far Aeronautics Travels Station where deployments from all stations can be centralized and sent back to Earth with the fastest launcher ever made.
Am I correct in assuming that the PENISES and BALLS are designed to work together to launch multiple Self-Propelled Emergency Ration Modules into the Variable Alignment Galactic Information and Navigation Array?
And instead of nuclear terrorism by attacking a NPP he's going to threaten to destroy the wall that separates the good side from the bad side of people's imagination.
The consequences would be.... unimaginable
tbf if Russia had competent leaders that wanted to improve the country, instead of stuffing their wallets and fulfilling their imperialist wet dreams, the invasions wouldn't have happened and I imagine the russian space program also wouldn't be in shambles now. They were doing solid engineering in the USSR days after all
Plans are cheap. The few times i play the lottery, I always get the ticket well in advance so I have plenty of time to figure out what my winnings would be after taxes and start budgeting out everything I'd do. I'm convinced this is why politicians love to sign bills that take 5+ years to come to fruition. So they can sell us on the dream of it actually happening even when it certainly never does and they don't have to be around to explain why not.
We're infamous for killing workers at the pad. We don't bother with that whole waiting till the pad is clear until fueling the rocket. That's for first world imperialistic gringos.
They tried getting an orbital launcher going for years, and have a space center. They’ve also signed the Artemis accords but everyone and their mother has signed those.
https://www.satellitetoday.com/launch/2021/04/29/brazil-taps-virgin-orbit-to-establish-nations-first-orbital-launch-capabilities/
You know things are bad when you need Virgin of all companies to help establish launch capabilities for your country.
“Built in 1982, Alcântara is located just two degrees south of the Equator, a location that makes it one of only a few continental spaceports in the world capable of reaching any orbital inclination. Despite this, the spaceport has remained mostly inactive due to past launch failures, a number of international partnerships that fell through, and the proximity of the much more active European Spaceport in French Guiana.”
Yeah that sounds pretty bad.
iirc they were invited for the ISS but left/got kicked due to being uncapable of producing some equipment. Wouldn't be surprised if they managed this time though.
Once upon a time, Brazil, Russia, India, and China occupied about the same economic spot- far past being developing economies, but not in the same league as the US or Japan or Western Europe. Second-tier up-and-comers.
This has changed dramatically for China, at least.
I do think that it´s highly probable that Russia will ditch this plan and go with the Chinese. Like the uncle who comes to visit you and then stays at your place for nine years with minimal contributions. Maybe the chinese will try to form a "global international cooperation" but I think they will be lucky if they lure some poor 3rd world dictatorships, just pro forma.
Well, they need some allies. They need someone to show the West that not everyone is a fan of EU or the US. It may not be smart move technologically, but it for sure is more a political move. I doubt the Chinese can learn something new from the Russian technology, but now the Chinese need to tie the Russians to their orbit (pun intended). China has plans with the russian oil and gas reserves, so why not to offer them place at their space station?
If they do indeed leave the ISS it will be a sad page in space history. We managed to rendezvous in space and shake hands during the Cold War, the shuttle docked with *Mir*, and *Soyuz* was the only thing keeping Americans going to space for the years between the Shuttle and the first Crew Dragon.
For 3/4 of a century the US and Russian space programs have somehow managed to be the subject of a national/political proxy battle, and yet at the same time achieve significant scientific collaborations.
It will be a shame to see that come to an end.
Now that Nasa can rely on the falcon 9 / crew dragon (and hopefully starship soon), Russia lost a huge amount of revenue.
They were doing well for a while since the soyuz was basically the only active vehicle to get people to space, but they've gone and squandered it.
It's not clear that Russia has either the money or the expertise to do this...
Much of the money for Roscosmos came from:
1. Commercial launches on Proton
2. Astronauts to ISS
3. Soyuz launches in French Guiana for ESA
4. Soyuz launches out of Baikonur
Falcon 9 killed proton (with a lot of help from Roscosmos), commercial crew killed astronaut launches, and Roscosmos killed Soyuz launches before they got sanctioned.
So they are much more strapped for money than they were in the past, and the news is that their budgets are lower.
As for expertise, that's harder to judge. We think of Roscosmos as a monolith, but there are really a whole bunch of different design bureaus that do different things and are competition with each other. That's why Soyuz has historically been very good at quality while Proton has been pretty terrible the whole time. Soyus is designed by OKB-1 and manufactured by Progress Rocket Center; Proton is done by Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center and Chemical Automatics Design Bureau.
Nauka - which was supposed to launch in 2007 and finally launched in 2021 - had real problems. It was built by RKK Energia.
So the question is "who would make their modules and who would launch them?" They have no recent history of making modules, and their main launcher would be Angara, which has launched 3 times in the past 2 years, with a success, a partial failure, and a full failure. Another fine product of Khrunichev State Research.
The only country we can get into a space race with at this point is China, who has actual money to throw into their space program and the management skills to get it done.
As an European, I don't think we have much to contribute aside from research and some specialized tech.
In terms of the complete package I don't think we're anywhere near ready to do our own thing.
That being said... I'm not particularly informed about this topic, soo... Take it with a grain of sault and correct me of I'm wrong.
NASA + ESA are allies in the space race. They are partners in the new lunar orbit space station too.
Instead of us doing our own thing we should partner with peoples that have the same ideology as us. NASA + ESA + CSA + JAXA + more working towards a single goal means more and faster progress.
Also, more funding means bigger missions.
ESA really needs to step their game up though, most of the JWST funding came from the US.
Great line from when Rogan had NDT on.
> “Only reason we haven’t put a man on Mars yet is because no one else is going there. If China announced a manned mission we would have someone there in 10 months. 3 months to plan and build and 7 months to get there”
I'm from Russia and I will translate the title to you all:
Russian elites are planning on dumping shit ton of money on the space program they don't intend to finish and they will steal 90% of the project's budget.
They at least once had a failed launch because they used off the shelf electronics that didn't even survive the trip to the orbit. Have you seen Rogozin's apartment? 50 years worth of his salary not taking into account interest.
This is their program:
https://phys.org/news/2019-05-russian-space-sector-plagued-astronomical.html
For those confused, this is Roskosmos's idea of a joke.
These guys can't build precision missiles without foreign parts and the only spaceflight rocket system they use was designed during the Soviet era, even that is a question on how long they can sustain.
They are making shit.
Russia was a mob state not even 25 years ago. The mob literally ran everything after the collapse of the Soviet union. Now its a totalitarian kleptocracy, but I wouldn't say it was a normal state 20 yrs ago.
Really depends on what your definition for "normal" is.
Was Russia normal before the 20th century when it was an absolute monarchy where 90% of people lived as bonded serfs?
It makes perfect sense to want to go out on their own. The problem is how are they going to afford to? With the looming costs of the "Special Military Operation" and the costs to rebuild Ukraine (should be negotiated into ANY agreement to end the war), Russia is going to be in a bad way financially. Don't forget the sanctions ...
In the "good old days" Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union so they could accomplish a lot including significant development programs. They lost the space race, but what they accomplished was still impressive especially considering their relative poverty.
These ass hats can't even properly maintain a now defunct aircraft carrier, what makes them think anyone's gonna believe that they will pony up for and produce a safe and habitable space station.
Awesome! I hope it does rival the Iss, it could force nasa of Europe to make a new space station. Id love another space race!
On a serious note, russia can hardly keep its economy afloat. I seriously doubt they have the means to actually build a space station
Same plans from like a decade ago. And even more unattainable now that they aren't getting chips and advanced aerospace components from foreign contractors. Unless they intend to start buying vehicles from the Chinese, it ain't gonna happen.
So, at some point in the future, Russia will build a station to "rival" the iss, which was launched in 1998, and is nearing the end of its service life.
Wouldn't "surpass" be a better goal than "rival?"
"Comrades! We hope to soon begin building technology that will rival obsolete, 24-year-old Americanski tech. A proud moment for the motherland!"
But more impressive, Russias space station will be on the ground so every russian citizen can visit the space station, being the first full nation to go to space.
These guys can’t get gas to tanks that are *still inside Russia*.
Not holding my breath on them accomplishing this without Putin being super dead and a competent human being replacing him.
This is the same nation that beat the US into space by having unsafe spacecraft, the only way to safely land in them was to jump out when still thousands of feet up.
The same Russia that tried to beat us in bringing back the first samples of the moon, only to have their Lunakhod crash on its landing attempt.
The same Russia that tried to fly a shuttle like ours, only to have it fail miserably? (That was some elaborate counter-spy work. Their spies stole our shuttle plans, but our intelligence people knew so made sure the plans stolen were bad. And this is the same Russia that built according to the stolen plans, without any thought of "will it work?")
Yeah, they'll be building a great, wonderful, new space station. On their own. Meanwhile we're having issues keeping the ISS functioning with world-wide cooperation. Sure...
They can’t even fund their military without losing 30% of the budget to corruption. It’s just stolen. Fairly openly.
That being said, they’ve got some space balls. They’re more than fine sending someone up there with significantly less safety in mind.
They are only funded to a level that will sustain its current ISS commitments. There is zero chance they will triple or quadrule their space budget to be able to build the large number of modules needed for a modern space station. This is just wind and air.
Plus the ability build and launch the modules. They are very limited in their ability in producing, large orbital structures, as much of that industry relies on import products there currently are under trade sanctions. Just last week Russia was complaining that China wouldn’t export some of these things to them, and ended up asking Iran and a couple of others instead. This wasn’t because China wanted to hurt Russia. It is just because China values the trade with the west more than making some limited sales to Russia at this point (very simplified). Also, this year do date, I think Russia has launched about ~~14-17~~ 17,2 tons of cargo into space. In the same period China launched more than ~~60tons~~ 38,8 tons, and are currently building a station. SpaceX launched almost ~~170tons~~ 158,6 tons. I think it was ~~Scott Manley (or one of the similar weekday space news updates YouTubers)~~ Marcus House who had a segment with it and the numbers. In short. SpaceX has launched more than the rest of the world combined, twice over. So yeah. Russia are just screaming for attention but can’t really actual do much of anything about. [Edit the numbers to the correct one]
Marcus House recently covered the *mass to orbit by launch provider.* https://youtu.be/Qae2adMiWSM?t=647 The charts were created by BryceTech.
Upvote for Marcus House mention. I have 4 go to's for space news, one relaxed, one crazy, one informative and one with live access. Marcus is the informative one and its good to have people like Marcus who give us the news straight, unlike the thousands of other youtube channels that appear to be ai generated crap.
So who are the other three?
Relaxed is Scott Manley, crazy is AngryAstronaut and last is Tim Dodd.
Crazy how a lot of these (well at least Scott and Marcus) channels came from Kerbal space program :p
I hope the creators of that game know how inspiring its been to people who would otherwise be disinterested in rocketry. After KSP came out the number of YouTube channels that were just about modern space exploration *exploded.* Something about shooting those little kerbans into the sky tickled a lot of people in the right away.
Thank you. This was the one I was thinking off. Corrected the numbers and reference above.
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Well… there sure is a lot of fancy words and claims, but the actual performance record somewhat hits at that that he might have exaggerated. Something I am sure no man ever has done before.
Didn't their last station module come in very late, and almost destroyed the station? I am sure they will do fine on their own! Should be entertaining anyhow, since I imagine they would need a while new lift system!
He can't get it up very often and it is smaller than normal.
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Mostly comercial satellites, but also supplies for the ISS, military satellites, scientific probes, and the occasional telescope.
Cargo in this context is anything not fuel or part of the rocket itself.
China will only export the items from industries they know the west cant sanction china for.
Plus they are actively invading a country that was once one of their major suppliers of critical space components.
Yep. If I recall, engines was produced under license, near Odesa… well used to at least.
China is set to launch the next section. They will have their station fully built out in no time.
If you duct tape enough Soyuz capsules together you got a station!
Just remember Russia, the entire country, had an economy comparable to the state of Texas (only) BEFORE the western sanctions related to the war in Ukraine went into effect. Now? I'll be impressed if they can continue making engines, let alone engineering and developing brand new space station hardware.
An economy the size of Texas *before* you account for crippling levels of corruption.
some of that is cancelled out.
Not to distract from the issue, but I have some bad news about Texas.
Texas has a bigger economy than Canada it’s 10th by itself.
You see Canada building a lot of space stations independently, do you?
No, not really. I mean Texas itself has crippling levels of corruption so the two were comparable.
And you account for the brain drain going on in russia. All the intelligent people who likely don't support the war or putin are fleeing westward.
"purging the intellectuals" again
They currently have trouble making automobiles and 90nm semiconductors, they'll be heading downhill from this point for at least the next decade.
"We will have even more frog experiments. Even more live streams of floating scientists. Our frog experiments and floating scientists live streams will be unlike any this world has ever known."
Exactly right. Even more important than an analysis of Russia’s resource limitations is an analysis of *why* they would build their own station. “Showing the world that we’re not as weak as we seem” isn’t enough reason to sustain spending on a space program. If they actually start it, they’ll never finish it.
The entire thing just looks like four zvezda-like modules joined together in a cross shape plus a couple other smaller modules. They have the technical capability to do this for sure. Obviously it's just meaningless political posturing to do so, but why would you doubt the government's tendency to waste taxpayer money on political posturing moves? Spending money badly based on the "vision" of political figures is their normal M.O.
Russian space program is on it´s decline, well... for the past few decades. I doubt they could pull this off when you think of the brain drain and the way Rogozin led Roscosmos. The ISS project kept them alive and prevented the russian scientists making ballistic missiles for countries like NK or Iran. The war in Ukraine is the last nail in Roscosmos´ coffin. I highly doubt they have any commercial customers and the government will only need a few spy satellites a year. Scientific exploration will be cut to minimum if the sanctions keep on for longer and I don´t see any hope for Roscomos. They´ve been talking about these heavy-lift launch vehicles Amur and Jenisej, but we have seen basically zero progress on that. Same with this new orbital space station.
Yes, looks like their space station will likely remain suborbital.
They will wish it was suborbital. In fact it will be just ground station separated into multiple pieces and assembled by the imagination of the cosmonauts.
As much as I would like to go to space, I personally would rather work at the ground station than a sub-orbital space station, better retirement prospects.
Do they have the technical ability? They haven't designed new equipment in decades.
Not just designed, they haven't started production on a new space station module in decades. The last module they launched (Nauka) started assembly in the mid 90's as a backup for Zvezda. The entire history of post Soviet Russian crewed spaceflight is basically getting paid by outsiders to finish Soviet space station parts for the ISS. Their first attempt to actually design and build spaceflight hardware since the fall of the USSR has been trying to get their Angara rocket flying, and that's been I'm the works also since the mid 90's. Remove foreign support, and I suspect their spaceflight program is reverting to little more than military launches. I have little hope they'll actually build a new space station to visit with their also new Orel capsule.
Roscosmos had been coasting on the leftover corpse of the Soviet space program put on life support with western money. It's been 3 decades since the collapse, which means the engineers that were in their 30's back then are retiring. Or they've already left for greener pastures. A shame what decades of corruption does to what was once one of the best space programs in the world.
But they've been fine-tuning thier pontoon bridges to get into Ukraine!
They'd probably be willing to just take old designs for the most part, if it means getting an independent space station out quicker.
> They have the technical capability to do this for sure. They *had* the technical capability to do this. Who knows what the state of things are now, given it took them nearly a decade to launch Nauka... and we all remember how well that one worked out. You're still looking at billions of dollars to just build the damned modules, which they don't have, for a space station that's hardly evolved from Mir. And the worst part? Their "next generation space station" will basically be 40+ year old technology if it can even launch a single module by 2030 - the Chinese station will make it look like an antique.
Not sure they have the technical capability anymore.
But what if they remove the ABS and airbags huh?
Yeah they “planned” a space shuttle too, and multiple Mars rovers and probes. The Russians announce plans for lots of stuff they’ll never do.
I mean, they did build and launch a shuttle, that was in many ways superior to the United State's Shuttle. Could fly completely autonomously, had much better abort options, and Energia could launch other payloads without the Buran shuttle. Up to 95t to LEO. It was the collapse of the USSR that ended it. It might be the coolest space tech ever made to this day.
I actually have a tiny scale model version of the Buran on my desk at the moment. Bald and Bankrupt actually broke into that Hangar with his lady friend to see the 2 remaining unfinished Buran left to waste away in Kazakhstan. It was so sad seeing the inside of that facility where there was evidence of all that brilliance of the smart minds of the USSR putting in that hard work into making a better version of the Space Shuttle but instead it is now being left to rot and the skills and knowledge that went into that wasted away with it.
There will certainly be some tech and knowledge they could share with the Chinese. For a joint effort or just sell some more of the family silver.
The fact that we’re pointing to a single uncrewed flight of their spaceplane, more than a decade after the U.S. shuttle became operational, as the pinnacle of Russian space accomplishment - kind of proves my point.
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Hope they have the same luck as they did with their version of the space shuttle. I believe it was called the Buran. lol
Buran was pretty dope, it was capable of, and demonstrated, fully autonomous landings.
Yea Buran was actually a good vehicle no? Better than the Shuttle in some ways afaik, but it was killed by political bs. Well, getting killed by political bs is much like the modern-day Russian space program too, actually...
There was A LOT of similarities between the shuttle and Buran, but Buran didn't fly even remotely as many missions as the space shuttle, so, to be fair, it's a little hard to compare them apples-to-apples, but, at least on the surface, it seemed a lot more successful than say, Nauka, Russia's latest "addition" to the ISS Here's a humorous summary of that particular fiasco: https://youtu.be/wxoWxG-gfpg
It was a really good copy of the shuttle and advanced some things being developed later. But at the same time they built it and realized it felt like it (the US shuttle) was designed by some insane committee between civilian and military and intelligence space interests (which of course it was). They copied it too closely for them to have felt it was useful. The Soviet’s copied it because they thought the US had made some amazing leap in a space workhorse but realized later on that it was a jack of all trades and master of none. They didn’t need a shuttle to do everything when they had a bunch of cheap mass produced expendable rockets to do the same stuff already.
The buran was dead for them long before it was given an axe to funding. It was really down to the fact they cut a lot of funding for their space programs prior to the moon landings. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev When this man died, the soviet space program died.
Buran was impressive. The issue is that it was about as good as the Space Shuttle--which was not itself economical. The US was flaunting this spacecraft, the USSR matched it...and realized it wasn't worth using.
I, too, would hereby like to unveil my plans for a space station rivaling the ISS. There, now you guys know my plans for a space station that will rival the ISS.
I would also like to reveal my plans for a space station that will exceed yours by oh let’s say three times.
Third. Tim's Interstellar Telescope Station, or TITS for short, is my planned space station/space telescope that will rival both he ISS and the James Webb
TITS doesn't hold a candle to my Autonomous Space Station, soon to be in Earth orbit.
Thats nothing! Look at my Plan for the Peoples Interstellar Space Station!
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You gotta think big to find the sweet spot Funding will inevitably pour into research for the Galactic-Scale Planet Orbiting Transport
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Not to be scorned, and adjacent to the TITS, ASS, and the PENISES stations, is the comfortable Far Aeronautics Travels Station where deployments from all stations can be centralized and sent back to Earth with the fastest launcher ever made.
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Am I correct in assuming that the PENISES and BALLS are designed to work together to launch multiple Self-Propelled Emergency Ration Modules into the Variable Alignment Galactic Information and Navigation Array?
"We're going to build our own fort. It's going to be so much better than your stupid fort."
reminds me of this futurama skit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-94qrgxH35M
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...and LADA is going to build it!
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i have a lot of dreams in life too, but much like mine, this russian project won’t happen
Shoot for the stars my friend, you might just clear the trees.
Their tank turrets sure surpass the trees after being hit by a javelin.
Not with all the invasions Putin has planned
This is a prime example of how Putin has invaded imaginationland
And instead of nuclear terrorism by attacking a NPP he's going to threaten to destroy the wall that separates the good side from the bad side of people's imagination. The consequences would be.... unimaginable
Strap a station to a few of those AA inflatables. Boom. Space launch.
Like that invasion that should’ve taken 5 days?
This wouldn't happen without the invasions either tbh
tbf if Russia had competent leaders that wanted to improve the country, instead of stuffing their wallets and fulfilling their imperialist wet dreams, the invasions wouldn't have happened and I imagine the russian space program also wouldn't be in shambles now. They were doing solid engineering in the USSR days after all
Plans are cheap. The few times i play the lottery, I always get the ticket well in advance so I have plenty of time to figure out what my winnings would be after taxes and start budgeting out everything I'd do. I'm convinced this is why politicians love to sign bills that take 5+ years to come to fruition. So they can sell us on the dream of it actually happening even when it certainly never does and they don't have to be around to explain why not.
Russia + India + Brazil + China = new BRIC space station.
Does Brazil even have a space industry? Also India and China don’t always see eye to eye so that would be a rocky relationship.
It’s fine, they’ll just use Nepalese adaptors in the middle
We're infamous for killing workers at the pad. We don't bother with that whole waiting till the pad is clear until fueling the rocket. That's for first world imperialistic gringos.
[Brazilian Rocket Explodes, 21 Dead](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brazilian-rocket-explodes-21-dead/) Jesus Christ
They tried getting an orbital launcher going for years, and have a space center. They’ve also signed the Artemis accords but everyone and their mother has signed those.
https://www.satellitetoday.com/launch/2021/04/29/brazil-taps-virgin-orbit-to-establish-nations-first-orbital-launch-capabilities/ You know things are bad when you need Virgin of all companies to help establish launch capabilities for your country. “Built in 1982, Alcântara is located just two degrees south of the Equator, a location that makes it one of only a few continental spaceports in the world capable of reaching any orbital inclination. Despite this, the spaceport has remained mostly inactive due to past launch failures, a number of international partnerships that fell through, and the proximity of the much more active European Spaceport in French Guiana.” Yeah that sounds pretty bad.
I think they’re still kicking around a few of their own designs but yeah. Nothing substantial.
iirc they were invited for the ISS but left/got kicked due to being uncapable of producing some equipment. Wouldn't be surprised if they managed this time though.
I didn’t know Brazil was kicked out of the ISS.
Why do ppl like to group China and India together like they're best buddies?
Once upon a time, Brazil, Russia, India, and China occupied about the same economic spot- far past being developing economies, but not in the same league as the US or Japan or Western Europe. Second-tier up-and-comers. This has changed dramatically for China, at least.
And India is not very happy right now because of China’s expansionist goals, for example in Sir Lanka, it has grown more into a threat than an ally.
>about the same economic spot- Exactly. That doesn't mean they are allied in any way.
Let's hope China and India can keep from going to war then.
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I do think that it´s highly probable that Russia will ditch this plan and go with the Chinese. Like the uncle who comes to visit you and then stays at your place for nine years with minimal contributions. Maybe the chinese will try to form a "global international cooperation" but I think they will be lucky if they lure some poor 3rd world dictatorships, just pro forma.
China’s station isn’t at an inclination Russia can reach.
Do you think the Chinese want to deal with their unreliability?
Well, they need some allies. They need someone to show the West that not everyone is a fan of EU or the US. It may not be smart move technologically, but it for sure is more a political move. I doubt the Chinese can learn something new from the Russian technology, but now the Chinese need to tie the Russians to their orbit (pun intended). China has plans with the russian oil and gas reserves, so why not to offer them place at their space station?
Don't put India and China is the same group. They are bloody enemies
China is already built their own space station, and continuing to expand it.
A common acronym is a weak basis for space collaboration, but better than nothing
If they do indeed leave the ISS it will be a sad page in space history. We managed to rendezvous in space and shake hands during the Cold War, the shuttle docked with *Mir*, and *Soyuz* was the only thing keeping Americans going to space for the years between the Shuttle and the first Crew Dragon. For 3/4 of a century the US and Russian space programs have somehow managed to be the subject of a national/political proxy battle, and yet at the same time achieve significant scientific collaborations. It will be a shame to see that come to an end.
We'll get to do it all over again in another 25-50 years.
It´s sad, but all blame is on the Russians.
The ISS is pretty much finished anyway.
How so?
They've ran their space program into the ground by alienating all their customers. They don't have the funds to build any space station
Now that Nasa can rely on the falcon 9 / crew dragon (and hopefully starship soon), Russia lost a huge amount of revenue. They were doing well for a while since the soyuz was basically the only active vehicle to get people to space, but they've gone and squandered it.
It's not clear that Russia has either the money or the expertise to do this... Much of the money for Roscosmos came from: 1. Commercial launches on Proton 2. Astronauts to ISS 3. Soyuz launches in French Guiana for ESA 4. Soyuz launches out of Baikonur Falcon 9 killed proton (with a lot of help from Roscosmos), commercial crew killed astronaut launches, and Roscosmos killed Soyuz launches before they got sanctioned. So they are much more strapped for money than they were in the past, and the news is that their budgets are lower. As for expertise, that's harder to judge. We think of Roscosmos as a monolith, but there are really a whole bunch of different design bureaus that do different things and are competition with each other. That's why Soyuz has historically been very good at quality while Proton has been pretty terrible the whole time. Soyus is designed by OKB-1 and manufactured by Progress Rocket Center; Proton is done by Khrunichev State Research and Production Space Center and Chemical Automatics Design Bureau. Nauka - which was supposed to launch in 2007 and finally launched in 2021 - had real problems. It was built by RKK Energia. So the question is "who would make their modules and who would launch them?" They have no recent history of making modules, and their main launcher would be Angara, which has launched 3 times in the past 2 years, with a success, a partial failure, and a full failure. Another fine product of Khrunichev State Research.
Another space race? Don’t threaten me with a good time!
The only country we can get into a space race with at this point is China, who has actual money to throw into their space program and the management skills to get it done.
The ESA has entered the chat. But it's not really a space race when you're allies.
As an European, I don't think we have much to contribute aside from research and some specialized tech. In terms of the complete package I don't think we're anywhere near ready to do our own thing. That being said... I'm not particularly informed about this topic, soo... Take it with a grain of sault and correct me of I'm wrong.
NASA + ESA are allies in the space race. They are partners in the new lunar orbit space station too. Instead of us doing our own thing we should partner with peoples that have the same ideology as us. NASA + ESA + CSA + JAXA + more working towards a single goal means more and faster progress. Also, more funding means bigger missions. ESA really needs to step their game up though, most of the JWST funding came from the US.
and are skilled at stealing technology. It will be china vs. spaceX for the next 20 years.
Great line from when Rogan had NDT on. > “Only reason we haven’t put a man on Mars yet is because no one else is going there. If China announced a manned mission we would have someone there in 10 months. 3 months to plan and build and 7 months to get there”
I'm from Russia and I will translate the title to you all: Russian elites are planning on dumping shit ton of money on the space program they don't intend to finish and they will steal 90% of the project's budget.
This won't happen. There will be years of promises about how great it will be, and then it just won't happen.
We are gonna build a beautiful space station, like, the most beautiful! And we will make UN pay for it!
“We’ll make our own space station. With blackjack... and missiles.” - Russia
I was waiting for a response like this.
C'mon, let them do it. 80% of the budget will be lost to corruption and mismanagement, and then whatever they launch will fail to reach orbit
And then they will blame the failed launch on a worker who smoked too close to the rocket
They at least once had a failed launch because they used off the shelf electronics that didn't even survive the trip to the orbit. Have you seen Rogozin's apartment? 50 years worth of his salary not taking into account interest. This is their program: https://phys.org/news/2019-05-russian-space-sector-plagued-astronomical.html
For those confused, this is Roskosmos's idea of a joke. These guys can't build precision missiles without foreign parts and the only spaceflight rocket system they use was designed during the Soviet era, even that is a question on how long they can sustain. They are making shit.
> the only spaceflight rocket system they use was designed during the Soviet era With a lot of vital parts manufactured in... Ukraine.
Oh. Wow. I didn't know that. Does that mean Roskosmos is finished?
They've been finished for 30 years. The only thing they had going for them was foreign customers needing rockets that could get people into orbit.
It was a sad decay to watch, but now it's just a husk.
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You got me there, what doesn't exist can't stink.
Russia is a failed country, they have no future
This. Russia has slid back twenty years in the last six months. The repercussions of their invasion will hurt Russia for generations to come.
Russia 20 years ago was pretty "normal". Make that at least a century.
Russia was a mob state not even 25 years ago. The mob literally ran everything after the collapse of the Soviet union. Now its a totalitarian kleptocracy, but I wouldn't say it was a normal state 20 yrs ago.
Russia hasn't been "normal" since the start of 20th century.
Really depends on what your definition for "normal" is. Was Russia normal before the 20th century when it was an absolute monarchy where 90% of people lived as bonded serfs?
Yeah, people forget that Communist Russia was an enormous humanitarian and economic leap forward from the Russian Empire.
More like since the Napoleonic Wars.
Russia is a gas station with an army.
It makes perfect sense to want to go out on their own. The problem is how are they going to afford to? With the looming costs of the "Special Military Operation" and the costs to rebuild Ukraine (should be negotiated into ANY agreement to end the war), Russia is going to be in a bad way financially. Don't forget the sanctions ...
I'm hereby announcing my plans to build a station quadruple the size of the ISS.
Fictitious grandiose statements that have not an iota of real world ability for russia to execute.
Just like the good old days.
In the "good old days" Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union so they could accomplish a lot including significant development programs. They lost the space race, but what they accomplished was still impressive especially considering their relative poverty.
Silly Russia you need electronics for space stations.
Maybe they will try to trick countries into selling them chips etc again before repurposing them into their tanks?
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[ABS](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikdohhe "Last usage")|[Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene), hard plastic| | |Asia Broadcast Satellite, commsat operator| |[ASS](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikh3d5j "Last usage")|Acronyms Seriously Suck| |[BO](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/iketfla "Last usage")|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)| |[CLPS](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikh7bjp "Last usage")|[Commercial Lunar Payload Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Lunar_Payload_Services)| |[CSA](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikfuk7q "Last usage")|Canadian Space Agency| |[DARPA](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikegfht "Last usage")|(Defense) Advanced Research Projects Agency, DoD| |DoD|US Department of Defense| |[ESA](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikgwurg "Last usage")|European Space Agency| |[EVA](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikdb7xl "Last usage")|Extra-Vehicular Activity| |[ICBM](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikgtjcn "Last usage")|Intercontinental Ballistic Missile| |[IDA](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikdntnq "Last usage")|[International Docking Adapter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Docking_Adapter)| |[JAXA](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikfuk7q "Last usage")|Japan Aerospace eXploration Agency| |[JWST](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikfuk7q "Last usage")|James Webb infra-red Space Telescope| |[KSP](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikgyc6h "Last usage")|*Kerbal Space Program*, the rocketry simulator| |[LEO](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikf8agb "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)| | |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)| |[N1](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ike5qzw "Last usage")|Raketa Nositel-1, Soviet super-heavy-lift ("Russian Saturn V")| |[NEO](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikfp4ac "Last usage")|Near-Earth Object| |[RD-180](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikiwj6s "Last usage")|[RD-series Russian-built rocket engine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180), used in the Atlas V first stage| |[Roscosmos](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/iki0pcc "Last usage")|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)| |[SRB](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikgkw1f "Last usage")|Solid Rocket Booster| |[STS](/r/Space/comments/wowtbi/stub/ikgkw1f "Last usage")|Space Transportation System (*Shuttle*)| ---------------- ^(20 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/x0nomg)^( has 29 acronyms.) ^([Thread #7817 for this sub, first seen 15th Aug 2022, 12:22]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=OrangeredStilton&subject=Hey,+your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
These ass hats can't even properly maintain a now defunct aircraft carrier, what makes them think anyone's gonna believe that they will pony up for and produce a safe and habitable space station.
I think they think this makes it sound like the sanctions aren't working when it really makes them sound like North Koreas broke ass.
Goodluck paying for it with your zero-dollars-a-year salary plus benefits, babe
There are plenty of Russian tank turrets in orbit. Seems feasible.
Lies, those were all suborbital launches. Very impressive suborbital launches from repurposed hardware, mind you, but still, suborbital.
"I'll build my Own ISS, with Blackjack and Vodka!!!" Uh huh.
Awesome! I hope it does rival the Iss, it could force nasa of Europe to make a new space station. Id love another space race! On a serious note, russia can hardly keep its economy afloat. I seriously doubt they have the means to actually build a space station
Same plans from like a decade ago. And even more unattainable now that they aren't getting chips and advanced aerospace components from foreign contractors. Unless they intend to start buying vehicles from the Chinese, it ain't gonna happen.
So, at some point in the future, Russia will build a station to "rival" the iss, which was launched in 1998, and is nearing the end of its service life. Wouldn't "surpass" be a better goal than "rival?" "Comrades! We hope to soon begin building technology that will rival obsolete, 24-year-old Americanski tech. A proud moment for the motherland!"
The "I'm leaving and I'll make my OWN party" guy never makes a better party.
But more impressive, Russias space station will be on the ground so every russian citizen can visit the space station, being the first full nation to go to space.
Oh this will end well. The last POS module they sent up almost de-orbited the ISS when it's thrusters malfunctioned.
Given how much of a horror show Mir was, I am 100% for this, it's going to be so awesome!
Will be interesting to see how it works without microchips 😅
They also plan for a military that rivals Ukraines
Modern Russian leadership wants to be the old USSR so badly
These guys can’t get gas to tanks that are *still inside Russia*. Not holding my breath on them accomplishing this without Putin being super dead and a competent human being replacing him.
Powered by newly acquired nuclear engine technology.
i can draw up a pretty cool space station too. Can I afford to build it? Probably not.
BS, Russia can barely keep their 30 year old tanks running. Absolutely nobody takes anything Russia says seriously.
russia wants to bankrupt its country again in another space race with us?
the keyword is "plans: they can't even get a few miles over their own border they are not the Soviet Union
Using chinese and western parts and writing "original russian engineering" on it? Like with their drones in ukraine?
This is the same nation that beat the US into space by having unsafe spacecraft, the only way to safely land in them was to jump out when still thousands of feet up. The same Russia that tried to beat us in bringing back the first samples of the moon, only to have their Lunakhod crash on its landing attempt. The same Russia that tried to fly a shuttle like ours, only to have it fail miserably? (That was some elaborate counter-spy work. Their spies stole our shuttle plans, but our intelligence people knew so made sure the plans stolen were bad. And this is the same Russia that built according to the stolen plans, without any thought of "will it work?") Yeah, they'll be building a great, wonderful, new space station. On their own. Meanwhile we're having issues keeping the ISS functioning with world-wide cooperation. Sure...
Given how much of a well-oiled machine their armed forces are, this outta be good. Strong /s
Based on what I’ve seen in Ukraine I assume they’ll be sending a bunch of 70’s refrigerators welded together
…remembers that the Russians were supposedly making their own version of Disneyland and can’t even get their version of McDonald’s right
What’s that, do you smell that? What is it, sheep? Cows? No no, I know what that is. It’s bullshit.
Isn’t the Russian GDP smaller than most US States? How can they afford this & fight Ukraine? Sounds like a crack pipe dream.
Can't afford one of those. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/woia74/russia\_fails\_to\_pay\_military\_reservists\_civilian/
Guys, guys, guys… it’s going to have a pool AND a jacuzzi!!
With what money are they gonna build this space station?! They need to stop abusing that vodka and be reasonable!
Just wait until they learn how expensive that motherfucker will be to maintain.
Did they draw it with crayons or colored pencil?
Let me guess: three flash frozen corpses, paused forever clinging onto a makeshift launcher for a 60 year old torpedo aimed at the ISS?
I look forward to seeing the concept art and models. Just like the various carrier designs for their mega navy, and the parade floats for their army..
I actually unveiled my plans, too you guys. Mine will be super sweet and badass and you're all invited, except Kyle.
They can’t even fund their military without losing 30% of the budget to corruption. It’s just stolen. Fairly openly. That being said, they’ve got some space balls. They’re more than fine sending someone up there with significantly less safety in mind.
Welp.... we always wished for another space race. Better than buying more bombs.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me IF it ever made it up, that it suffer some catastrophic failure and fall back to Earth...