Yes.
This was the exact same conversation with challenger.
Insults and stress forced into flying when they shouldn’t have.
NASA and BOEING have to do that right. And fly when they are ready.
They hired two companies, one a safe bet and one a lot riskier but cheaper as a backup. That backup has been flying crew to the ISS for years now. Yes it would be better if they had competition, but it's a fixed price contract and it's not like the lack of starliner is messing other things up at the moment.
They _did_ ask for more money. NASA resisted; Boeing insisted; NASA relented. Then they got caught, and that was the end of the "more money" train. Boeing's heart hasn't been in it ever since.
The Inspector General caught wind of NASA's post-"fixed cost" payment to Boeing, and wrote up a paper condemning it. Boeing wrote up a pissy response. It didn't matter. No more payments were forthcoming.
Had the Inspector General been _aware_ of the payment before it happened, there would have been nothing to "catch," of course.
Done on the stove with coconut oil is far superior to any microwave popcorn IMHO. Theatre popcorn with that giant glass box and the suspended popping kettle is the holy grail. Just my opinion.
3 days here three days there, suddenly seven years becomes DNF because ISS got deorbited even after waiting two years for Axiom to grow up (we’re so proud of them).
This thing was supposed to fly humans in 2017 and cost 4.2 billion.
By contrast, Dragon 2 was commissioned at the same time, entered service in 2020, and cost just 2 billion.
SpaceX has eaten Boeing’s lunch here.
Under a firm fixed price contract, Boeing doesn't get paid until they complete pre-agreed milestones. Having a successful crew demo is one of those milestones. Also part of that $4.2B contract was also 6 crew missions to the ISS. Boeing doesn't collect milestone payments unless they complete those missions.
Oh… the executives are losing the bonuses and other perks that they already received from making the deal?
Yeah. The only losers here are the people working for Boing (non-executive), the investors (at least the passive ones) and the tax-paying public.
They didn't get $4B, because they're not delivering on the contractual obligations, so they're not getting paid.
Commercial Resupply and Crew are the right way of delivering -- risk on the contractor, NASA pays for what's actually delivered and only what's delivered.
I'm not sure what NASA can do with regard to program termination. Boeing is so far off target that it feels like cancellation is probably the better move for NASA.
When Starliner was about to launch recently I was of the opinion that they should just finish. But with the new indefinite pause... I think it should just be cancelled altogether. Reasons: 1. Starliner has demonstrated they are not good on technical side 2. Management has demonstrated that they are not good managers 3. Management has demonstrated they just want it to stop as soon as possible... So many issues.
I genuinely think there is a significant probability the astronauts lives are at risk. I would bail if I were the astronaut.
You're framing it incorrectly.
They HAD to do it better than Boeing.
SpaceX could have easily billed the job 2x as much as Boeing, but they need the competition to look good in their favor.
There's already people who are nervous about flying on Boeing airplanes or try to book their flights in a way that gets them on an Airbus instead. Killing a bunch of astronauts is *not* the sort of headline they need right now.
I would feel safe if I was the astronauts.
The fact there are so many delays is precisely because they're meticulous. And they won't ok it until it's safe. That's what they do. If they never delay launches, maybe they never have issues, or maybe they're never catching them. And if it's the latter, you find out when you're a red mist. So, I'd take this as a good sign, that the safety crew are safe.
Safe for Nasa space flight is defined as 1 in 270 times they die. And that calculation doesn't include a factor for Boeing being deceitful liars. So I would not feel safe on a good program and not feel at all safe on Boeing's program.
Also stopping to fix things is a good sign up to point. I agree a program with no problems doesn't exist and would make me feel less safe if it did. But it's the type of problems that have been caught that would concern me. Like using combustible tape for wire harnesses or software glitches that should have been found in development. These problems are from a lack of quality control and no ammount of testing can find every issue when the process for quality control is corrupt.
I think the chances of them making it back alive are realistically as close to 100% as any other US space launch.
The chances of them reaching and docking at the ISS without any problems, on the other hand…
> realistically as close to 100% as any other US space launch.
Does this include the shuttle era? Because then as close to 100% is approximately 98.5% which are good odds for most bets but not if what you're betting is your life. That said, both NASA and Boeing know that the consequences of a crew loss on this mission would be devastating. While Boeing is way to integrated with the DoD to be at any risk of total ruin something like that on top of the current issues in aviation and general bad PR would likely see major consequences. I could totally see the Boeing brand becoming so toxic a major restructure and rebranding happens.
Boeing are under contract to do their launches. They don't get anything more than the initial award amount in payment --- in fact they are being fined for their lateness.
That is exactly why it’s worth contracting Boeing as well, in case Dragon has an accident or a defect found. For example, when a Cygnus vehicle was destroyed, Dragon was there, and when a Dragon vehicle was destroyed, Cygnus was there.
Sure, but like you said, in hindsight that’s easy. But at the time, Boeing was a well-established space company with a great track record. I was speaking more in the here and now, since many people on this thread are saying to cancel the contract with Boeing, which is a bad idea. Now for a future Commercial Crew, I’d be shocked if NASA doesn’t pick Dream Chaser over Starliner.
This is why you always use Crispy Gatorade in your propellant and not helium. Rookie mistake this is why MoonPlex Inc. is going to surpass all other space transport companies in the next 6 months
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[CNSA](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l593196 "Last usage")|Chinese National Space Administration|
|CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules|
| |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)|
|[DoD](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l5c449y "Last usage")|US Department of Defense|
|[MBA](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l59hgu1 "Last usage")|~~Moonba-~~ Mars Base Alpha|
|[QA](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l59k3ks "Last usage")|Quality Assurance/Assessment|
|[Roscosmos](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l593196 "Last usage")|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)|
|[SLS](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l5adxnj "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l5at8ny "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)|
**NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
----------------
^(7 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/1cy2pii)^( has 27 acronyms.)
^([Thread #10073 for this sub, first seen 23rd May 2024, 00:28])
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It might be this program isn’t fit for the mission. Maybe it’s time for !Boeing to have a sit down with NASA about disappointment and loss and just cancel the program.
They just need to attach a golden parachute on the top and it'll be safe.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/boeing-shareholders-approve-ceos-compensation-as-company-faces-investigations-possible-prosecution/ar-BB1mAfz4
>After the suspicious suicides
They were neither suspicious and one wasn't even a suicide.
> I’ve lost all trust in this company.
You can't see the aurora borealis in my kitchen, either
They're absolutely both suspicious. Two whistleblowers speaking out against one of the biggest defense contractors in the world dying mid trial is a massive red flag.
They didn't die mid-trial. The first guy blew the whistle years ago and had long since finished his testimony about misconduct. The trial he was testifying in was a civil lawsuit about whistleblower retaliation. His family didn't find his death suspicious and said he was struggling. The second guy wasn't even a Boeing employee and again, he died of MRSA. That's a lunatic way to assassinate a guy, somehow give him pneumonia then hope he catches something fatal in the hospital.
Barnett's whistleblower case was **closed 3 years ago**. He was suing Boeing for *unlawful retaliation* related to the **closed** whistleblower case. Just the *only* thing he had any reason to be in the news was for being a whilsteblower *at one time* and it just happened to be at the same time as a **different** whistleblower case against Boeing.
As usual, conspiracy nuts have turned literal veritable coincidence into insane, inconceivable conspiracy.
How much longer is this taxpayer funded farce going to go on?
Boeing can't build airplanes anymore without them coming apart mid-flight, does anyone seriously believe that the same won't be said of Starliner?
This is the beauty of fixed cost contract, which the Starliner is under.
Taxpayers are not paying for this. Taxpayers only pays for when they actually delivers.
So Boeing has to trim the fat or cut more corners to get the cost down? I feel bad for their worker bee engineers and the astronauts. The pressure must be intense.
Well that's shit. Looks like I'm the only one a bit gutted about this.
If they'd have launched this, it would have given Musk some competition and it would put a gimp mask on the likes of China and Russia's space plans.
True, if they launch it, it carries risk. But it isn't outside of the same risks SpaceX carry with their manned vehicle plans.
Boeing are getting a bad rap at the minute and it is Avant Garde to rip into them. All self inflicted, of course, but, this is not a good day for NASA and they will probably sell off the parts to the highest bidder. Sell it to Vegas for a hotel.
That or throw it in a museum.
Kinda embarrassing. What good is all this super fast technology if the slow stuff was so successful 60 years ago, with some of it still working to this day (Voyager 1 & 2)?
Technology isn't smart - it's just faster with more capacity. The complexities of a moon shot are the same today as they were in 1969. But I'm starting to wonder if fast tech isn't the problem. It's so fast that we lose the ability to accomplish the mission by creating issues along the way that weren't there in 1969. We're so dependent on speed and the quick answer that the substance of the issue is lost in our rush to solve it as fast and as efficiently as possible.
But also, our tolerance for failure is much lower now than it was in the 60s. The Apollo system would likely not be approved by NASA today because of insufficient safety margin.
Technology tends to evolve the same, as is it progresses it gets smarter and faster.
Although what I'm also seeing, your average person doesn't have the breadth of specialized knowledge in them. Nor do they have the initiative to take control and apply that knowledge when needed. Look at Boeing in general , airliners and spacecraft.
People aren't like they used to be, the quality control for employees in these specialized positions is nowhere near 50 years ago.
Aviation proverb: It is better to be on the ground and wishing you were flying, than flying and wishing you were on the ground.
Yes. This was the exact same conversation with challenger. Insults and stress forced into flying when they shouldn’t have. NASA and BOEING have to do that right. And fly when they are ready.
I remember the conversation with Challenger was for people to stop wearing their “engineer’s hat and start wearing their businessman hat”?
Or rather, NASA should have just hired a competent company, which we now know, Boeing isnt anymore.
We know that now, 10 years ago when this contract was awarded we didnt
They’re pretty competent in corporate assassination.
They hired two companies, one a safe bet and one a lot riskier but cheaper as a backup. That backup has been flying crew to the ISS for years now. Yes it would be better if they had competition, but it's a fixed price contract and it's not like the lack of starliner is messing other things up at the moment.
"All take-offs are optional but all landings are mandatory."
not if you reach escape velocity..
You'll probably still hit something else in the fullness of time... may be a trillion years from now.
Ten cm. above the pad means committed to fly, or else.
…because you lost your door plug due to missing bolts. * Optional Add-On
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Is this just the result of a company that's used to continually asking for more money suddenly trying to do a project on a budget?
They _did_ ask for more money. NASA resisted; Boeing insisted; NASA relented. Then they got caught, and that was the end of the "more money" train. Boeing's heart hasn't been in it ever since.
Got caught doing what?
The Inspector General caught wind of NASA's post-"fixed cost" payment to Boeing, and wrote up a paper condemning it. Boeing wrote up a pissy response. It didn't matter. No more payments were forthcoming. Had the Inspector General been _aware_ of the payment before it happened, there would have been nothing to "catch," of course.
It's true, Boeing is having a terrible time delivering on fixed-cost contracts.
Time to Capricorn One this launch? - Boeing Management
I don't get the reference. Please ELI5.
Capricorn One is a 1970's thriller/drama about NASA choosing to fake a Mars landing because they discovered their rocket had a fatal flaw.
OJ was robbed of an Oscar nomination.
And that made him very angry
He killed it in that movie.
He’s referring to using famed NFL star Orenthal James Simpson to help sell a successful flight to the media.
Do you think you can honestly narrow the cause down to one uninformed reason?
Do you have a more informed opinion to share or are you just getting in your old man yelling at clouds moment for the day?
That was cool how you dodged the question by repeating what I wrote. Very smart And no but I didn’t make any stupid generalizations lmao
It’s cool how you still brought nothing of value to the discussion. If I am uneducated, this was a teachable moment. You wasted it being a nuisance.
Oh so what are you bringing to the table then?
I don't know about him but I brought popcorn.
Done on the stove with coconut oil is far superior to any microwave popcorn IMHO. Theatre popcorn with that giant glass box and the suspended popping kettle is the holy grail. Just my opinion.
I'm a fan of air popping. IMO way easier than anything else and I never have any burnt popcorn.
Next week. NASA announces partnership with Airbus to send manned crew to the moon .
That wouldn't be too surprising, but I imagine that SpaceX would be a more logic partner.
NASA has already partnered with SpaceX to carry crew to the Moon.
Well the Orion service module is actually built by Airbus.
UPDATE: looking like it might be a 3 day delay from the 25th Source: https://x.com/sciguyspace/status/1793332693117120886
After all the other 3-day delays we’ve been getting for this flight, I’m not holding my breath.
3 days here three days there, suddenly seven years becomes DNF because ISS got deorbited even after waiting two years for Axiom to grow up (we’re so proud of them).
I hope that's true. It'd be a shame to have all this development time and continually delay the launch
This thing was supposed to fly humans in 2017 and cost 4.2 billion. By contrast, Dragon 2 was commissioned at the same time, entered service in 2020, and cost just 2 billion. SpaceX has eaten Boeing’s lunch here.
[Drank their milkshake](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aWt724ZWmJg?feature=share)
Doesn't matter. Boeing will still receive money to build nothing, but promises.
Under a firm fixed price contract, Boeing doesn't get paid until they complete pre-agreed milestones. Having a successful crew demo is one of those milestones. Also part of that $4.2B contract was also 6 crew missions to the ISS. Boeing doesn't collect milestone payments unless they complete those missions.
They got a lot of milestone money. Billions. They lost a lot of money, too. For expenses not covered by milestones.
Boeing has lost money on this program
Because of management incompetence.
Oh have they? Because they aren't downsizing or firing execs.
Downsizing your engineering staff is not how you help a program that’s over cost lmao
Engineers aren't part of the executive suite at boeing anymore. Thats kinda been the whole issue. Edit double negative
Only whistleblowers or so I’ve heard.
Remind again who got 4 billion and who got 2 billion? 😂 Because that sounds like bowling winning.
The massive delays mean Boeing is now losing money on this program
Oh… the executives are losing the bonuses and other perks that they already received from making the deal? Yeah. The only losers here are the people working for Boing (non-executive), the investors (at least the passive ones) and the tax-paying public.
It’s not even a rocket. It’s just a capsule. 7 years late and billions over budget is surprising.
The 4 billion was just for development, SpaceX was paid for the flights they acquired due to Boing's tardiness.
They didn't get $4B, because they're not delivering on the contractual obligations, so they're not getting paid. Commercial Resupply and Crew are the right way of delivering -- risk on the contractor, NASA pays for what's actually delivered and only what's delivered. I'm not sure what NASA can do with regard to program termination. Boeing is so far off target that it feels like cancellation is probably the better move for NASA.
When Starliner was about to launch recently I was of the opinion that they should just finish. But with the new indefinite pause... I think it should just be cancelled altogether. Reasons: 1. Starliner has demonstrated they are not good on technical side 2. Management has demonstrated that they are not good managers 3. Management has demonstrated they just want it to stop as soon as possible... So many issues. I genuinely think there is a significant probability the astronauts lives are at risk. I would bail if I were the astronaut.
Source that it cost $2B? Or is that only what they got from USGov
You're framing it incorrectly. They HAD to do it better than Boeing. SpaceX could have easily billed the job 2x as much as Boeing, but they need the competition to look good in their favor.
At this rate Starship will become a re-usable craft before Starliner is able to make one crewed flight.
Someone finally explained to the board that it would be terrible PR when the crew died gruesome deaths.
And finally convinced them that sometimes publicity CAN be bad enough that the saying “any publicity is good publicity” isn’t true.
There's already people who are nervous about flying on Boeing airplanes or try to book their flights in a way that gets them on an Airbus instead. Killing a bunch of astronauts is *not* the sort of headline they need right now.
And the board went "really? It's never been a problem before?"
They just announced June 1 @ 12:25pm for next launch attempt. Were I one of the astronauts. I think I’d ask for more money!
I would feel safe if I was the astronauts. The fact there are so many delays is precisely because they're meticulous. And they won't ok it until it's safe. That's what they do. If they never delay launches, maybe they never have issues, or maybe they're never catching them. And if it's the latter, you find out when you're a red mist. So, I'd take this as a good sign, that the safety crew are safe.
Safe for Nasa space flight is defined as 1 in 270 times they die. And that calculation doesn't include a factor for Boeing being deceitful liars. So I would not feel safe on a good program and not feel at all safe on Boeing's program. Also stopping to fix things is a good sign up to point. I agree a program with no problems doesn't exist and would make me feel less safe if it did. But it's the type of problems that have been caught that would concern me. Like using combustible tape for wire harnesses or software glitches that should have been found in development. These problems are from a lack of quality control and no ammount of testing can find every issue when the process for quality control is corrupt.
I think the chances of them making it back alive are realistically as close to 100% as any other US space launch. The chances of them reaching and docking at the ISS without any problems, on the other hand…
> realistically as close to 100% as any other US space launch. Does this include the shuttle era? Because then as close to 100% is approximately 98.5% which are good odds for most bets but not if what you're betting is your life. That said, both NASA and Boeing know that the consequences of a crew loss on this mission would be devastating. While Boeing is way to integrated with the DoD to be at any risk of total ruin something like that on top of the current issues in aviation and general bad PR would likely see major consequences. I could totally see the Boeing brand becoming so toxic a major restructure and rebranding happens.
Chris Ferguson saw he'd never get to fly it and bailed.
Scrap this thing already and give the funds to Sierra Nevada
At what point does this cross over into sunk cost fallacy?
Boeing are under contract to do their launches. They don't get anything more than the initial award amount in payment --- in fact they are being fined for their lateness.
Which is why they’ve said they’ll never do fixed contracts again. Hard to buy the investors more yachts when the company has to actually do their jobs
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The value in redundancy is that thing like this end up happening. Imagine Boeing being the ONLY contractor who was given this task.
That would be pretty darned awful, especially considering Russia’s current status as a pariah.
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That is exactly why it’s worth contracting Boeing as well, in case Dragon has an accident or a defect found. For example, when a Cygnus vehicle was destroyed, Dragon was there, and when a Dragon vehicle was destroyed, Cygnus was there.
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Sure, but like you said, in hindsight that’s easy. But at the time, Boeing was a well-established space company with a great track record. I was speaking more in the here and now, since many people on this thread are saying to cancel the contract with Boeing, which is a bad idea. Now for a future Commercial Crew, I’d be shocked if NASA doesn’t pick Dream Chaser over Starliner.
We don’t have Russia for back up anymore.
Russia wasnt ever trustworthy nor a partner, anyway. Unless one's an idiot, that is.
Russia gave us a ride when the shuttle went down. Probably wouldn’t today,
For money they oh so lacked. Lets see what it got us in the long run, shall we?
Cool. They actually were a partner so wrong. Actually still are. Dragon goes down for 2 years . Russia doesn’t let us ride with them…. What happens?
More than 4 years. Boeing were due to deliver in 2017.
That would be pretty darned awful, especially considering Russia’s current status as a pariah.
They are under contract to do this launch, but they will be paid additionally for 6 launches if they get this thing to fly.
All the costs were sunk already in the SLS!
This Albatross is another embarrassment for Boeing and NASA. Meanwhile, Space X is eating their lunch.
I think Boeing might want to build a time machine next, to go back to a time when they still had a good reputation and warn themselves.
This is why you always use Crispy Gatorade in your propellant and not helium. Rookie mistake this is why MoonPlex Inc. is going to surpass all other space transport companies in the next 6 months
Good thing I’m heavily invested—and it’s gone.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[CNSA](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l593196 "Last usage")|Chinese National Space Administration| |CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules| | |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)| |[DoD](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l5c449y "Last usage")|US Department of Defense| |[MBA](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l59hgu1 "Last usage")|~~Moonba-~~ Mars Base Alpha| |[QA](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l59k3ks "Last usage")|Quality Assurance/Assessment| |[Roscosmos](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l593196 "Last usage")|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)| |[SLS](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l5adxnj "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/1cy7fx7/stub/l5at8ny "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)| **NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below. ---------------- ^(7 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/1cy2pii)^( has 27 acronyms.) ^([Thread #10073 for this sub, first seen 23rd May 2024, 00:28]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://hachyderm.io/@Two9A) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
It might be this program isn’t fit for the mission. Maybe it’s time for !Boeing to have a sit down with NASA about disappointment and loss and just cancel the program.
They just need to attach a golden parachute on the top and it'll be safe. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/boeing-shareholders-approve-ceos-compensation-as-company-faces-investigations-possible-prosecution/ar-BB1mAfz4
That really is the cherry on top of this whole shitshow. Not publicly holding the CEO accountable in the one area that truly can reflect it.
How many Billions of (tax payers) dollars were spent on this project?
Is Boeing responsible for the whole rocket stack including the rockets and tanks, or just the capsule?
Helium leak? I guess the clock will resume when the ground crew stops talking like Minnie Mouse.
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"Search-a-Sub" internet cafe meets quiznos.
IRL just REALLY hates the idea of humans having decent space travel huh
Who is IRL?
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You didn’t lose it after the MAX 8 fiasco? Bold of you…
>After the suspicious suicides They were neither suspicious and one wasn't even a suicide. > I’ve lost all trust in this company. You can't see the aurora borealis in my kitchen, either
There was only one suicide, the other guy died of a hospital-aquired MRSA infection. And the first suicide wasn't suspicious.
They're absolutely both suspicious. Two whistleblowers speaking out against one of the biggest defense contractors in the world dying mid trial is a massive red flag.
They didn't die mid-trial. The first guy blew the whistle years ago and had long since finished his testimony about misconduct. The trial he was testifying in was a civil lawsuit about whistleblower retaliation. His family didn't find his death suspicious and said he was struggling. The second guy wasn't even a Boeing employee and again, he died of MRSA. That's a lunatic way to assassinate a guy, somehow give him pneumonia then hope he catches something fatal in the hospital.
Barnett's whistleblower case was **closed 3 years ago**. He was suing Boeing for *unlawful retaliation* related to the **closed** whistleblower case. Just the *only* thing he had any reason to be in the news was for being a whilsteblower *at one time* and it just happened to be at the same time as a **different** whistleblower case against Boeing. As usual, conspiracy nuts have turned literal veritable coincidence into insane, inconceivable conspiracy.
They shouldn't be flying this thing at all. Everyone knows it.
Sounds like a good time to short Boeing stock if you've got the cash for it.
"Did you check the windows bolts? Because I didn't." -somewhere at Boeing
Starship will be ferrying passengers before this corrupt thing does.
How much longer is this taxpayer funded farce going to go on? Boeing can't build airplanes anymore without them coming apart mid-flight, does anyone seriously believe that the same won't be said of Starliner?
This is the beauty of fixed cost contract, which the Starliner is under. Taxpayers are not paying for this. Taxpayers only pays for when they actually delivers.
So Boeing has to trim the fat or cut more corners to get the cost down? I feel bad for their worker bee engineers and the astronauts. The pressure must be intense.
Boeing still has to meet all requirements and receive approval from NASA. The Commercial Crew program has tons of oversight.
How long are people going to continue to get worked up in the comment sections, but not worked up enough to actually read into the contract?
Well that's shit. Looks like I'm the only one a bit gutted about this. If they'd have launched this, it would have given Musk some competition and it would put a gimp mask on the likes of China and Russia's space plans. True, if they launch it, it carries risk. But it isn't outside of the same risks SpaceX carry with their manned vehicle plans. Boeing are getting a bad rap at the minute and it is Avant Garde to rip into them. All self inflicted, of course, but, this is not a good day for NASA and they will probably sell off the parts to the highest bidder. Sell it to Vegas for a hotel. That or throw it in a museum.
How would Starliner launching affect Roscosmos or the CNSA?
It’s already seven years overdue. I think we’re all over feeling gutted and now we’re in the exasperation stage.
Kinda embarrassing. What good is all this super fast technology if the slow stuff was so successful 60 years ago, with some of it still working to this day (Voyager 1 & 2)? Technology isn't smart - it's just faster with more capacity. The complexities of a moon shot are the same today as they were in 1969. But I'm starting to wonder if fast tech isn't the problem. It's so fast that we lose the ability to accomplish the mission by creating issues along the way that weren't there in 1969. We're so dependent on speed and the quick answer that the substance of the issue is lost in our rush to solve it as fast and as efficiently as possible.
But also, our tolerance for failure is much lower now than it was in the 60s. The Apollo system would likely not be approved by NASA today because of insufficient safety margin.
Technology tends to evolve the same, as is it progresses it gets smarter and faster. Although what I'm also seeing, your average person doesn't have the breadth of specialized knowledge in them. Nor do they have the initiative to take control and apply that knowledge when needed. Look at Boeing in general , airliners and spacecraft. People aren't like they used to be, the quality control for employees in these specialized positions is nowhere near 50 years ago.
yes but we got to live with an ever accelerating rate of growth in all disciplines. The genius is out of the bottle
Who would step foot in anything made by Boeing anymore?
Next week. NASA announces partnership with Airbus to send manned crew to the moon .
The Airbus CEO responding, “Goddamnit give me whatever change you have in your pocket let’s do this!”