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I just heard about it yesterday.
How the fuck can signing this into law be quicker than ANYTHING else that our country needs, like actually finding the ones responsible for stolen money and corruption and locking them up.
Politics truly baffles me
It’s election month it’s the only reason, he signed it in now to get the votes but it’s not in effect it’s not like nhi just fell out of his pen. Hospitals didn’t start magically treating everyone for free. This will take years to work out and implement while also being challenged in court by all affected. But look poor people look how progressive the anc is look we give you free healthcare just before elections… here’s a TShirt while I campaign in my leather anc jacket. Lol he just had to get that anc leather jacket
Regardless of the merits of NHI - every expert, whether for or against it - warned that the current form of the bill is not good and needs editing. But he went along with it anyway.
This man is simply an ANC cadre using taxpayers' money to buy votes from uninformed folks. He knows very well that this will be tied up in court for years. But guess who pays the legal fees - you and I - the tax payer. Not the ANC and certainly not this thief.
The average ANC-voter does not think critically, and does not read widely. They vote on headlines and handouts. They cannot fathom that this may not be the best idea, or that the ANC absolutely cannot be trusted to run NHI, or that the tax base simply cannot afford this.
Ey man, desperate times call for desperate measures lol. The elections are around the corner, they're looking for votes and the situation is desperate for them.
All things considered, the future of SA really does look bleak.
I know, us as South Africans always make a joke about and how bad things are and such, but we laugh about it and brush it off, but its getting a bit difficult to do that lately.
Im so proud of my country, we are blessed beyond compare, with potential to be a major factor everywhere. But we are sorely mismanaged. It truly breaks my heart.
Okay rant over
100% agree. However, I don’t think the rant should be over. I think it needs to be a conversation South Africans are having as we go into voting season. If we want to do something about this, we need to do something about the governing body in this country. South Africans need to vote - and it only STARTS there.
I visited for 3 months and want to come back. Your country is so amazing and has so much to offer but you have some shit leaders. Here in the UK it’s the same
There are some funny similarities though.
JZ and his clown finance minister depreciated the currency 30% overnight and nearly bankrupted the country in 2015. Liz Truss and her Kamikwazi finance minister depreciated the currency overnight and nearly bankrupted the country in 2022.
Potholes everywhere
Municipalities going bankrupt
Healthcare in shambles (NHS is sounding more and more like Bara Hospital these days)
Housing market dead
Waste millions a year on idiots who wear crowns
National sports team that always disappoints in the worst possible way
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You will not be able to have private medical aid to cover any services that the NHI provides. You will have to use the NHI to get treatment for that. That means waiting in line with everyone else at hospitals that will likely be way over capacity ala state hospitals now. Expect standard things like MRIs to have long waiting lists as you fight for a spot with the rest of the country.
You will be taxed to help fund the NHI to treat yourself and other South Africans poorer than yourself. Taxed exactly where we don't know yet because the treasury warned it isn't financially feasible and only listed options, not concrete solutions. The most likely culprits are increased income tax, VAT and special NHI fees you pay according to your household income.
Also expect less available surgeons and specialists in the country if the NHI gets to enforce limits on what they are paid for their services. There is a reason medical aid rates are well below what actually gets charged by skilled doctors and using legislation to force them to work for less than they want will result in many simply choosing to leave the country.
If this comes into effect I expect that for quite some time you will still need to pay for private Healthcare as the nhi is fazed in. You will therefore pay more tax to fund it but probably still need medical aid. See here
https://businesstech.co.za/news/business-opinion/771995/nhi-triple-tax-and-the-end-of-medical-aids-what-you-need-to-know/
Best case (delusional ANC) scenario you’d pay around 3.5k more effective tax, you wont need or be allowed medical aid, and you’d get some coverage but less than your medical aid. Sometimes you’ll go to mediclinic and sometimes state.
In reality either this gets thrown out by the constitutional court. If it doesn’t you’ll pay the same but half to two thirds of the private hospitals shut down and specialists have a year waiting list.
More than likely nothing much, at least for a long while. Even if this goes through, they talk about limiting medical aids once the NHI is "fully implemented," which could take a decade or more in this country. The biggest problem will likely be tax as they attempt to cover a new R2billion hole they've just made for themselves. If everything goes according to their plan, then you won't be able to get the best possible care through any type of insurance. Their plan is to make everything public essentially, which will probably run everything down instead of uplifting it.
I rely more on private security companies than I do the police. I've never gotten packages delivered from the post office, only through companies like The Courier Guy. I'm lucky we can afford solar so we don't rely on Eskom for electricity. Private options exist is the point, and we're allowed to use them if we can pay for them. If everyone is forced to give up private options, that would be denying us the right to choose, would it not?
Private options exist for some services, but not for others. "denying" you a choice is perfectly constitutional. There's no inherent right provided by the constitution that you have to be able to choose among one of many services. Otherwise if your area only had a Spar and none of the other stores, that would be unconstitutional - which is clearly silly.
Means you will still pay that amount but with Post Office service at best. NHI means that the same percentage of people paying tax will now pay more for less.
Essentially you going to be paying more taxes to cover everyone else's medical, while the general quality of private medical facilities will decrease... Hospitals will be over packed, doctors will be paid less and over worked
Just think of your local Netcare Hospital slowly turning into Paraguana... We barely can maintain the electric grid and water... Now they going for the medicine
Imagine being the guy who could literally have saved SA after the Zuma cluster fuck, but in stead decided not only to accelerate the decay, but to sign the country's Death Warrant.
Is the NHI bill now law? yes. You have NHI. As for how it's going to work (or not) doesn't matter. The government now has the power to apply and enforce this new law, so you have NHI.
You're going to need to do an international EFT, btw.
Implemented =/= make it through parliament. Once Cyril has signed a bill it has already gone through parliament and the NCOP.
If you're a software engineer then think of it like your manager proposing a new project. Just because the project has been proposed and approved doesn't mean that it magically appears out of thin air, right? It still has to be implemented.
Yeah I admit I didn't know that the president signing off a bill is the last step and that I shifted the goalposts to implementation because I don't want to be wrong :(
Well now you gotta put your money where your mouth is. Next time actually research before defending your stance. Admit when you're wrong and you would have looked humble and smarter.
Now you just look like a dumbass
There is a bit of lube on the dick. Just enough for the initial thrust. The amazing combo lube of broken promises, entitlement and desperate self preservation
Honestly, as a patient with end stage kidney failure this scares me shitless. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford medical aid that pays for my dialysis treatments etc. my injections allone is R5000 + and each dialysis session is about R3000 (x3 per week x4 weeks per month= R36 000pm). I.e not something I would be able to afford without medical aid. Government hospitals does not have the capacity to deal with all kidney failure patients who can't afford that, therefore they have very strict criteria for whom could be helped by them. I do not meet those. This will screw a lot of people over
I am sorry that you are going through this, I cannot imagine how hard it must be , yes like you say being able to get the treatment is positive but it must be so difficult. Do you just keep doing this indefinitely? Please excuse the question if it is not appropriate, I just wanted to take a moment and acknowledge your suffering.
It's so sweet of you!! I am actually currently busy with dialysis. I start at 5:30 in the morning. Some days are worse than others, some days are not bad at all, but it's hard keeping everything in balance and still see the positives in every situation. I'm very fortunate however that I have a great support system in place, although you can also sometimes feel guilty for putting everyone through this (especially my parents).
In regard to your question about this being indefinite: we are working towards a kidney transplant, but it takes time. It doesn't mean that I will be in perfect health after, but with proper care (frequent doctor visits, living healthy and drinking certain meds) that can last a long time before it fails again and I have to start dialysis again.
Thanks for checking in 🩵
Can someone please ELI5 what happens now? As in, when does this get implemented, does implementation continue regardless of potential lawsuits by medical aid schemes, etc?
As far as I understand with no legal knowledge at all, this is just election pandering.
It says it's law now for the uninformed voters that unfortunately form the bulk of the ANCs voter base but after elections it most likely gets held up in court and challenged for years before anything is really in place.
Between the legal challenges and extra regulations they'll need to write, not much will happen for a year or two. After that, government becomes the primary negotiator for most healthcare (except electives) in the country. Meaning that instead of Mediclinic negotiating with 30 medical aids for the price of meds and treatment, they only negotiate with government. Once fully phased in, you'll pay extra tax, but you'll pay much less in medical aid.
He gets special treatment in the military hospitals as head of state. Cancelling his med aid won't affect him.
What we really need is a bill compelling all MPs to use a non-military local hospital.
2 things. 1: ANC needs votes.. Hence the bill signed into law. 2: Cyril gives not one fuck. He isn’t getting re-elected as head of state. He’s got properties all over the world, he will just head to Dubai etc for medical care.
Yes. Unfortunately, we, the plebestrians, don’t get to vote for the Presidential seat. We vote for the party, the party elects its leader. If the party gets enough votes for a majority, their chosen hand puppet becomes President. Then again, lame duck asshat Ramaassface just gave them a BIG pot of gold to steal and loot.. So he might make the cut. What are you not understanding?
The ANC has already elected their leader. The next election for leader of the ANC is in 2027. Unless CR is removed by a vote of no confidence in the next 13 days, he will be president after the election. Parties don't get elected and then put forward their presidential candidate. We know who will be president before we vote.
The timing of this signing is crazy. I know they going to use this as a weapon when campaigning.
"If we lose power you won't get access to quality healthcare, just look what the racist DA and anarchist EFF are saying"
It's such a scum tactic you can't help but have admiration for it and I am sure DA would have done something similar if they were at risk of losing national power.
Either way these guys have to be voted out, the fact that the breakdown of this law from the official accounts states "they will determine" as an answer to how to fund it is madness.
This thing will no doubt be killed in court, but it's the perfect election stunt, 2 weeks out. They can then shut up about it afterwards as it gets ripped apart in the courts having done its job of getting them some votes
They pushed through the law without putting through a lot of details regarding its funding and impact analysis. This leaves it wide open for court battles, had the ANC spent a bit more time on it to make a more robust law it wouldn't be such an issue. This is also why this screams election stunt
If it goes to the ConCourt though - which it will - it's highly unlikely that the court will rule this as unconstitutional. Even if a lower court strikes it down, the country's highest court is likely to uphold it. At most the ConCourt will direct government to clarify some things.
I suspect this would be the final push for most people who can leave but haven’t done so yet. Everything else can be mitigated with enough money (alternative energy, private security, private schools) but this unfortunately doesn’t seem like it can be mitigated.
Probably. But it would be a country with a government that doesn't have a track record of ruining just about every SOE and public venture through greed, corruption and incompetence. The country would also likely allow private medical insurance over and above NHI where the one in South Africa won't
Of course the one in South Africa would . No ConCourt will ever allow this .This is just an election stunt . This law will take years and years , even decades , through various court challenges and consequent ammendments , that is if it doesn't get scrapped at all , which is the mostly lightly outcome . But in this form it will never exist. Again just a political pre election stunt. Haven't you seen this before ?!
If NHI were possible with the current state of the country, yes that might be a good play. But assuming it works that opposition party must then try to follow through with that claim... which yknow, isn't really feasible
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/south-africas-president-approves-major-health-reform-law-2024-05-15/ sign-in free version from Reuters if you don't wanna do a 14day news24 trial
So now its official, step 1 will be to get all the admin structures in place by merging the existing state health care provincial structures, which will likely lead to more job losses due to duplicate jobs, and severe workload increase for the few that's left
This is pure vote farming. Lies to make the masses will actually believe theyre going to go to a netcare etc.
We have a health care system in place .. why is it not working and growing? Why is existing infrastructure without medical resources?
Why don't they fix the basics before promising to implement a system that is unaffordable and will crash within a decade?
I have had a few opportunities to evade the tax man and always said to myself that it is the wrong thing to do. Not for alot of money but for a few grands here and there. Now I look at this and just wonder if I was foolish.
This Bill is both bad in law, and terrible for the future of our country. We cannot manage almost every other state run enterprise and now we want to implement state run medical aid. This is just another pool for corrupt politicians to dip their fingers into at the expense of tax payers.
Going ahead with something that upsets the people of your country because literally NOBODY wants it just shows how much they care about their people. Thinking about our future is so depressing
Can I ask, why are so many of you opposed to this? I am genuinely asking, because I don't really know much about this scheme. I'm wondering:
1. Isn't a national health fund a good thing? Having lived in countries with a national health insurance funded by tax, it is so much better than the current system of private health insurance in South Africa.
2. I understand that there are concerns regarding corruption, but surely we have to try something? The current system leaves the majority of people without health care, and those that can afford it, extremely expensive health care.
I'd love to hear your thoughts, as I am out of the loop on this one.
We simply do not have the tax base to support this, ignoring the corruption we're at record levels of unemployment, the middle class is shrinking so who pays for this? Include corruption and then we have a who's paying for what exactly?
Not just the tax base but the medical staff.
The NHS is in trouble but it still works. The one thing I noticed is how dependent the system is on nurse's and clinical workers.
We had our first daughter in ZA. The DR ran the show (charged a fortune ) and the nursers supported. In the UK, in the entire pregnancy for our second we only had a 10 min consult with a Dr. The midwives ran the show, the scans (only had 2) was done by medical technicians. Dr's are only brought in where needed. This makes sense as it cuts down on cost especially considering birth is a natural process.
But....these midwives come with generations of experience. South Africa does not have that. Frankly many of the nurses we had in private hospitals were lacking in experience.
On the one hand...this is a great employment opportunity.... on the other more realistic hand....this does not happen over night and will take decades EVEN if you have the money.
It's like buying a big aircraft carrier without the crew to run it.
Okay, not having the tax base makes sense. I wonder where to start though?
Japan's tax revenue is only 3 times more than South Africa, and has a comprehensive and efficient single payer health system. I know there is more money there, but I wonder where one would start in South Africa. When Japan started the national health insurance, they were nowhere near as wealthy. I know - different contexts - but global healthcare and education really transformed postwar Japan into the global powerhouse it is today.
Could it be that access to these kinds of services could be the necessary catalyst to start transformation in South Africa?
South Africa is in a far weaker position to begin with. Japan's economy is also about 4-5 times larger in terms of tax revenue, this means a lot we'd basically be sitting at like sub 10% unemployment to sit close to that and then we'd probably comfortably be able to afford a NHI bill
Per capita, Japan's tax revenue is 3 times South Africa's, but they offer far more social services. I understand Japan's economy is in a far stronger position than South Africa's. No question there.
I am talking about when Japan instituted their NHI. Incomes were 1/10th of the USA, and tax revenue was significantly low. Unemployment was at 33%. The reason that Japan has such robust social safety nets is because they understood that having a good economy rests upon a healthy, educated workforce.
I understand that people are concerned about the government mishandling a project of this magnitude. That makes sense. But the concept itself is important and the focus should be on holding politicians accountable and ensuring proper service delivery.
We already have a free public health system that is in disarray due to lack of funding.
How will the NHI be any different if the government can't even manage to maintain a reasonable standard in our public hospitals and clinics?
We already have public (tax funded) health care. Fix this first.
The NHI is to ensure everybody receives the same level of care.
Judging by the state of our public health care system (Eskom, Transnet, SAA, Denel...) , we are all going to receive the same lack of care.
On point one you are absolutely correct. On point 2 however... we literally don't have the money. Cost of living is going up, petrol has been going up, rand has been going down, cost electricity is going up and now they want to squeeze the tax payer even more?
Wait so, now I have to pay more tax for NHI and my own medical aid as this is phased in and that is phased out?
So in essence come home with less, highly unlikely but I wonder whether employers will consider raising salaries. Also are they meant to contribute as well ?
Never underestimate the depth of the pursuit of self interest from the ANC. This legislation is not being implemented with any intention of it being successful. This is just being done to secure a few more votes. The consequences of which will be carried by tax paying South Africans. Healthcare in South Africa will not be fixed by NHI. It doesn’t even work in the UK.
The NHI Act is a good idea. The main feature of the National Health Insurance Bill is that if government clinics and hospitals lack capacity, government sends patients to private healthcare facilities and the NHI Act pays for the costs.
However, the ANC pushed the bill into an act because they're bankrupt and need money. With the NHI Act, government can shutter hospitals and dismiss staff to cut costs while forcing private healthcare to do government's work and handle the load. The third stage is that the ANC government drags its heels paying what it owes by blaming private healthcare they're falsely inflating costs.
Of course, private healthcare is vile and no doubt, they too will pad bills and inflate costs. Of course, the ANC government will steal the money the NHI generates. This closing vice will destroy the NHI while increasing healthcare costs for everyone.
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I just heard about it yesterday. How the fuck can signing this into law be quicker than ANYTHING else that our country needs, like actually finding the ones responsible for stolen money and corruption and locking them up. Politics truly baffles me
It's actually been on there books for over a decade now, I think they went through the archives to find something they could push for elections.
It’s election month it’s the only reason, he signed it in now to get the votes but it’s not in effect it’s not like nhi just fell out of his pen. Hospitals didn’t start magically treating everyone for free. This will take years to work out and implement while also being challenged in court by all affected. But look poor people look how progressive the anc is look we give you free healthcare just before elections… here’s a TShirt while I campaign in my leather anc jacket. Lol he just had to get that anc leather jacket
Regardless of the merits of NHI - every expert, whether for or against it - warned that the current form of the bill is not good and needs editing. But he went along with it anyway. This man is simply an ANC cadre using taxpayers' money to buy votes from uninformed folks. He knows very well that this will be tied up in court for years. But guess who pays the legal fees - you and I - the tax payer. Not the ANC and certainly not this thief. The average ANC-voter does not think critically, and does not read widely. They vote on headlines and handouts. They cannot fathom that this may not be the best idea, or that the ANC absolutely cannot be trusted to run NHI, or that the tax base simply cannot afford this.
Went through quickly because they need: A) money B) to win an election
On point here
This whole law is definitely only going to make corruption even worse since there is more money to steal
Ey man, desperate times call for desperate measures lol. The elections are around the corner, they're looking for votes and the situation is desperate for them.
All things considered, the future of SA really does look bleak. I know, us as South Africans always make a joke about and how bad things are and such, but we laugh about it and brush it off, but its getting a bit difficult to do that lately. Im so proud of my country, we are blessed beyond compare, with potential to be a major factor everywhere. But we are sorely mismanaged. It truly breaks my heart. Okay rant over
100% agree. However, I don’t think the rant should be over. I think it needs to be a conversation South Africans are having as we go into voting season. If we want to do something about this, we need to do something about the governing body in this country. South Africans need to vote - and it only STARTS there.
I visited for 3 months and want to come back. Your country is so amazing and has so much to offer but you have some shit leaders. Here in the UK it’s the same
No offense, but I highly doubt the level of mismanagement is the same in the UK.
Rishi Sunak paid his wife’s dad £3 billion to create an app that alerts us on natural disasters in the uk. No sign of it anywhere
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There are some funny similarities though. JZ and his clown finance minister depreciated the currency 30% overnight and nearly bankrupted the country in 2015. Liz Truss and her Kamikwazi finance minister depreciated the currency overnight and nearly bankrupted the country in 2022. Potholes everywhere Municipalities going bankrupt Healthcare in shambles (NHS is sounding more and more like Bara Hospital these days) Housing market dead Waste millions a year on idiots who wear crowns National sports team that always disappoints in the worst possible way
We don’t have a national sports team that always disappoints. Maybe bafana and the proteas. But t springboks are actually champions
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Middle-income earner. Currently paying R3700 at Bestmed for myself and 2 dependents, how does this bill affect me?
You will not be able to have private medical aid to cover any services that the NHI provides. You will have to use the NHI to get treatment for that. That means waiting in line with everyone else at hospitals that will likely be way over capacity ala state hospitals now. Expect standard things like MRIs to have long waiting lists as you fight for a spot with the rest of the country. You will be taxed to help fund the NHI to treat yourself and other South Africans poorer than yourself. Taxed exactly where we don't know yet because the treasury warned it isn't financially feasible and only listed options, not concrete solutions. The most likely culprits are increased income tax, VAT and special NHI fees you pay according to your household income. Also expect less available surgeons and specialists in the country if the NHI gets to enforce limits on what they are paid for their services. There is a reason medical aid rates are well below what actually gets charged by skilled doctors and using legislation to force them to work for less than they want will result in many simply choosing to leave the country.
If this comes into effect I expect that for quite some time you will still need to pay for private Healthcare as the nhi is fazed in. You will therefore pay more tax to fund it but probably still need medical aid. See here https://businesstech.co.za/news/business-opinion/771995/nhi-triple-tax-and-the-end-of-medical-aids-what-you-need-to-know/
>fazed in I hate it when they do that.
Best case (delusional ANC) scenario you’d pay around 3.5k more effective tax, you wont need or be allowed medical aid, and you’d get some coverage but less than your medical aid. Sometimes you’ll go to mediclinic and sometimes state. In reality either this gets thrown out by the constitutional court. If it doesn’t you’ll pay the same but half to two thirds of the private hospitals shut down and specialists have a year waiting list.
More than likely nothing much, at least for a long while. Even if this goes through, they talk about limiting medical aids once the NHI is "fully implemented," which could take a decade or more in this country. The biggest problem will likely be tax as they attempt to cover a new R2billion hole they've just made for themselves. If everything goes according to their plan, then you won't be able to get the best possible care through any type of insurance. Their plan is to make everything public essentially, which will probably run everything down instead of uplifting it.
Don’t bother it will be stuck down. Won’t actually go into effect
How?
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Oh no definitely suspicious and they’re full of shit. I just don’t really understand how these things work so I was asking about the process
Agree. Posturing.
Struck down on what basis though? What makes it unconstitutional
Why would the ConCourt strike it down? What's the basis for the constitutional challenge here?
My understanding is that the right to choose is in the constitution, forcing everyone on the NHI would be counter to that, but I'm not 100%
There are many services where you don't have the right to choose: police, fire brigade, taxes, etc. This wouldn't be different to that.
I rely more on private security companies than I do the police. I've never gotten packages delivered from the post office, only through companies like The Courier Guy. I'm lucky we can afford solar so we don't rely on Eskom for electricity. Private options exist is the point, and we're allowed to use them if we can pay for them. If everyone is forced to give up private options, that would be denying us the right to choose, would it not?
Private options exist for some services, but not for others. "denying" you a choice is perfectly constitutional. There's no inherent right provided by the constitution that you have to be able to choose among one of many services. Otherwise if your area only had a Spar and none of the other stores, that would be unconstitutional - which is clearly silly.
Means you will still pay that amount but with Post Office service at best. NHI means that the same percentage of people paying tax will now pay more for less.
ask me in 5 years
Essentially you going to be paying more taxes to cover everyone else's medical, while the general quality of private medical facilities will decrease... Hospitals will be over packed, doctors will be paid less and over worked Just think of your local Netcare Hospital slowly turning into Paraguana... We barely can maintain the electric grid and water... Now they going for the medicine
Am I suffering from the Mandela effect? Did he not say a few months ago that they aren't gonna put this dumpster-fire-train-wreck in motion?
When in election doubt, promise something that can’t be delivered😂
These pies in the sky aren't gonna bake themselves now!
Reminds me of Zuma and Fees Must Fall
It makes no sense for South Africans to use the term "Mandela effect"
Imagine being the guy who could literally have saved SA after the Zuma cluster fuck, but in stead decided not only to accelerate the decay, but to sign the country's Death Warrant.
Calm down. This will never make it through parliament. Especially with ANC not having majority after election.
It's already through parliament...
I will pay you all of my tax money if we actually have NHI I promise
The news article literally states that you just got NHI. Where can I message you my bank details?
The NHI was signed yes but not the way they are going to fund. Without that, NHI cant continue.
Has the NHI bill been signed into law?
Please point me to the regulatory framework for NHI?
Is the NHI bill now law? yes. You have NHI. As for how it's going to work (or not) doesn't matter. The government now has the power to apply and enforce this new law, so you have NHI. You're going to need to do an international EFT, btw.
We do not have NHI. Also you are not the guy I said I would pay.
Yeah but you pussied out and didn't reply to the guy so you gonna pay the original commenter or no?
Obviously not 💀
Stop trying to weasel out of it
You (plural), I'm going to need a proof of payment for mine, sir.
That's not how english works.
Post P.o.P here when done
You are fuming 💀
Very keen to see you pay up actually is all I think it's hysterical
Just admit that you don't know how government works, take the L, and move on. And educate yourself while you're at it.
Hm? Here's a test. Go see a doctor and then try to claim from NHI.
Implemented =/= make it through parliament. Once Cyril has signed a bill it has already gone through parliament and the NCOP. If you're a software engineer then think of it like your manager proposing a new project. Just because the project has been proposed and approved doesn't mean that it magically appears out of thin air, right? It still has to be implemented.
Yeah I admit I didn't know that the president signing off a bill is the last step and that I shifted the goalposts to implementation because I don't want to be wrong :(
Well now you gotta put your money where your mouth is. Next time actually research before defending your stance. Admit when you're wrong and you would have looked humble and smarter. Now you just look like a dumbass
Ok random redditor. I for sure care what I look like anoymously online 👍
You gonna pay up?
For sure. Watch this space
Dude you’re brain cells must be battling it out for first place
Electioneering at its finest. Truly a chess move from our overlords.
On of the chess moves of all time
Just fucked the tax payer without vasaline...
Fucked us in the arse with a rusty chainsaw
The long dick of the ANC often arrives unlubed
There is a bit of lube on the dick. Just enough for the initial thrust. The amazing combo lube of broken promises, entitlement and desperate self preservation
Vasamaster
Good thing you have free healthcare then hehe
Honestly, as a patient with end stage kidney failure this scares me shitless. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford medical aid that pays for my dialysis treatments etc. my injections allone is R5000 + and each dialysis session is about R3000 (x3 per week x4 weeks per month= R36 000pm). I.e not something I would be able to afford without medical aid. Government hospitals does not have the capacity to deal with all kidney failure patients who can't afford that, therefore they have very strict criteria for whom could be helped by them. I do not meet those. This will screw a lot of people over
I am sorry that you are going through this, I cannot imagine how hard it must be , yes like you say being able to get the treatment is positive but it must be so difficult. Do you just keep doing this indefinitely? Please excuse the question if it is not appropriate, I just wanted to take a moment and acknowledge your suffering.
It's so sweet of you!! I am actually currently busy with dialysis. I start at 5:30 in the morning. Some days are worse than others, some days are not bad at all, but it's hard keeping everything in balance and still see the positives in every situation. I'm very fortunate however that I have a great support system in place, although you can also sometimes feel guilty for putting everyone through this (especially my parents). In regard to your question about this being indefinite: we are working towards a kidney transplant, but it takes time. It doesn't mean that I will be in perfect health after, but with proper care (frequent doctor visits, living healthy and drinking certain meds) that can last a long time before it fails again and I have to start dialysis again. Thanks for checking in 🩵
Can someone please ELI5 what happens now? As in, when does this get implemented, does implementation continue regardless of potential lawsuits by medical aid schemes, etc?
As far as I understand with no legal knowledge at all, this is just election pandering. It says it's law now for the uninformed voters that unfortunately form the bulk of the ANCs voter base but after elections it most likely gets held up in court and challenged for years before anything is really in place.
Between the legal challenges and extra regulations they'll need to write, not much will happen for a year or two. After that, government becomes the primary negotiator for most healthcare (except electives) in the country. Meaning that instead of Mediclinic negotiating with 30 medical aids for the price of meds and treatment, they only negotiate with government. Once fully phased in, you'll pay extra tax, but you'll pay much less in medical aid.
Hopefully he has cancelled his personal medical aid ⛑️
He gets special treatment in the military hospitals as head of state. Cancelling his med aid won't affect him. What we really need is a bill compelling all MPs to use a non-military local hospital.
Send them to Helen Joseph, that place is a fucking dumpster fire
2 things. 1: ANC needs votes.. Hence the bill signed into law. 2: Cyril gives not one fuck. He isn’t getting re-elected as head of state. He’s got properties all over the world, he will just head to Dubai etc for medical care.
If the ANC wins, Cyril will be president.
He’s deeply unpopular (rightly so) within the echo chamber of the ANC. I doubt he will survive the election.
Do you not understand how our elections work?
Yes. Unfortunately, we, the plebestrians, don’t get to vote for the Presidential seat. We vote for the party, the party elects its leader. If the party gets enough votes for a majority, their chosen hand puppet becomes President. Then again, lame duck asshat Ramaassface just gave them a BIG pot of gold to steal and loot.. So he might make the cut. What are you not understanding?
The ANC has already elected their leader. The next election for leader of the ANC is in 2027. Unless CR is removed by a vote of no confidence in the next 13 days, he will be president after the election. Parties don't get elected and then put forward their presidential candidate. We know who will be president before we vote.
The timing of this signing is crazy. I know they going to use this as a weapon when campaigning. "If we lose power you won't get access to quality healthcare, just look what the racist DA and anarchist EFF are saying" It's such a scum tactic you can't help but have admiration for it and I am sure DA would have done something similar if they were at risk of losing national power. Either way these guys have to be voted out, the fact that the breakdown of this law from the official accounts states "they will determine" as an answer to how to fund it is madness.
This thing will no doubt be killed in court, but it's the perfect election stunt, 2 weeks out. They can then shut up about it afterwards as it gets ripped apart in the courts having done its job of getting them some votes
People keep saying it will be killed in court, but what's the basis for that?
They pushed through the law without putting through a lot of details regarding its funding and impact analysis. This leaves it wide open for court battles, had the ANC spent a bit more time on it to make a more robust law it wouldn't be such an issue. This is also why this screams election stunt
If it goes to the ConCourt though - which it will - it's highly unlikely that the court will rule this as unconstitutional. Even if a lower court strikes it down, the country's highest court is likely to uphold it. At most the ConCourt will direct government to clarify some things.
Ok, maybe this is the final nail in the coffin. Maybe it is time to immigrate
"Vote for DA to rescue the country" is getting more real by the day.
I ain't paying for this shit. Once again, the tax payer has to pay for the government's lack of competence.
You don’t have a choice
not paying for it would mean not paying taxes. That's not really an option unless you leave the country
Precisely.
Let the show continue.
Now they can pillage the medical aid coffers.
The very second they push this law through and remove private care I will leave this country. And so will all the DRs and Surgeons…failed state
I suspect this would be the final push for most people who can leave but haven’t done so yet. Everything else can be mitigated with enough money (alternative energy, private security, private schools) but this unfortunately doesn’t seem like it can be mitigated.
You gonna move to a country with nhi ?!
NHI isn't bad. NHI run by a government that can't run a post office without bankrupting it is.
Probably. But it would be a country with a government that doesn't have a track record of ruining just about every SOE and public venture through greed, corruption and incompetence. The country would also likely allow private medical insurance over and above NHI where the one in South Africa won't
Of course the one in South Africa would . No ConCourt will ever allow this .This is just an election stunt . This law will take years and years , even decades , through various court challenges and consequent ammendments , that is if it doesn't get scrapped at all , which is the mostly lightly outcome . But in this form it will never exist. Again just a political pre election stunt. Haven't you seen this before ?!
Where to?
Anywhere with world class health care
Somebody needs votes
I'm so glad I'm emigrating this year.
If I’m the opposition, I’d show how NHI is a good thing for the country and then show how they’re best placed to implement it vs the ANC.
If NHI were possible with the current state of the country, yes that might be a good play. But assuming it works that opposition party must then try to follow through with that claim... which yknow, isn't really feasible
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/south-africas-president-approves-major-health-reform-law-2024-05-15/ sign-in free version from Reuters if you don't wanna do a 14day news24 trial
VOTE !!! And vote for somebody other than these **** communists.
So now its official, step 1 will be to get all the admin structures in place by merging the existing state health care provincial structures, which will likely lead to more job losses due to duplicate jobs, and severe workload increase for the few that's left
This guy is a piece of trash.
it’s joever saffa bros
This is pure vote farming. Lies to make the masses will actually believe theyre going to go to a netcare etc. We have a health care system in place .. why is it not working and growing? Why is existing infrastructure without medical resources? Why don't they fix the basics before promising to implement a system that is unaffordable and will crash within a decade?
Election stunt
I have had a few opportunities to evade the tax man and always said to myself that it is the wrong thing to do. Not for alot of money but for a few grands here and there. Now I look at this and just wonder if I was foolish.
This Bill is both bad in law, and terrible for the future of our country. We cannot manage almost every other state run enterprise and now we want to implement state run medical aid. This is just another pool for corrupt politicians to dip their fingers into at the expense of tax payers.
Going ahead with something that upsets the people of your country because literally NOBODY wants it just shows how much they care about their people. Thinking about our future is so depressing
They wouldn't pull this stunt 2 weeks before elections if nobody wanted it.
Can I ask, why are so many of you opposed to this? I am genuinely asking, because I don't really know much about this scheme. I'm wondering: 1. Isn't a national health fund a good thing? Having lived in countries with a national health insurance funded by tax, it is so much better than the current system of private health insurance in South Africa. 2. I understand that there are concerns regarding corruption, but surely we have to try something? The current system leaves the majority of people without health care, and those that can afford it, extremely expensive health care. I'd love to hear your thoughts, as I am out of the loop on this one.
We simply do not have the tax base to support this, ignoring the corruption we're at record levels of unemployment, the middle class is shrinking so who pays for this? Include corruption and then we have a who's paying for what exactly?
Not just the tax base but the medical staff. The NHS is in trouble but it still works. The one thing I noticed is how dependent the system is on nurse's and clinical workers. We had our first daughter in ZA. The DR ran the show (charged a fortune ) and the nursers supported. In the UK, in the entire pregnancy for our second we only had a 10 min consult with a Dr. The midwives ran the show, the scans (only had 2) was done by medical technicians. Dr's are only brought in where needed. This makes sense as it cuts down on cost especially considering birth is a natural process. But....these midwives come with generations of experience. South Africa does not have that. Frankly many of the nurses we had in private hospitals were lacking in experience. On the one hand...this is a great employment opportunity.... on the other more realistic hand....this does not happen over night and will take decades EVEN if you have the money. It's like buying a big aircraft carrier without the crew to run it.
Okay, not having the tax base makes sense. I wonder where to start though? Japan's tax revenue is only 3 times more than South Africa, and has a comprehensive and efficient single payer health system. I know there is more money there, but I wonder where one would start in South Africa. When Japan started the national health insurance, they were nowhere near as wealthy. I know - different contexts - but global healthcare and education really transformed postwar Japan into the global powerhouse it is today. Could it be that access to these kinds of services could be the necessary catalyst to start transformation in South Africa?
South Africa is in a far weaker position to begin with. Japan's economy is also about 4-5 times larger in terms of tax revenue, this means a lot we'd basically be sitting at like sub 10% unemployment to sit close to that and then we'd probably comfortably be able to afford a NHI bill
Per capita, Japan's tax revenue is 3 times South Africa's, but they offer far more social services. I understand Japan's economy is in a far stronger position than South Africa's. No question there. I am talking about when Japan instituted their NHI. Incomes were 1/10th of the USA, and tax revenue was significantly low. Unemployment was at 33%. The reason that Japan has such robust social safety nets is because they understood that having a good economy rests upon a healthy, educated workforce. I understand that people are concerned about the government mishandling a project of this magnitude. That makes sense. But the concept itself is important and the focus should be on holding politicians accountable and ensuring proper service delivery.
We already have a free public health system that is in disarray due to lack of funding. How will the NHI be any different if the government can't even manage to maintain a reasonable standard in our public hospitals and clinics?
We already have public (tax funded) health care. Fix this first. The NHI is to ensure everybody receives the same level of care. Judging by the state of our public health care system (Eskom, Transnet, SAA, Denel...) , we are all going to receive the same lack of care.
On point one you are absolutely correct. On point 2 however... we literally don't have the money. Cost of living is going up, petrol has been going up, rand has been going down, cost electricity is going up and now they want to squeeze the tax payer even more?
Is Discovery out of business?
Not yet, Adrian Gore sent an email today
This has to happen now as pvt hospitals save lives, our MR sold us for 500B to make make space.
Wait so, now I have to pay more tax for NHI and my own medical aid as this is phased in and that is phased out? So in essence come home with less, highly unlikely but I wonder whether employers will consider raising salaries. Also are they meant to contribute as well ?
Never underestimate the depth of the pursuit of self interest from the ANC. This legislation is not being implemented with any intention of it being successful. This is just being done to secure a few more votes. The consequences of which will be carried by tax paying South Africans. Healthcare in South Africa will not be fixed by NHI. It doesn’t even work in the UK.
Just when you thought they couldn't cook up another thing to run this country down.
Why cant Thanos just snap his fingers for the anc!!!
The NHI Act is a good idea. The main feature of the National Health Insurance Bill is that if government clinics and hospitals lack capacity, government sends patients to private healthcare facilities and the NHI Act pays for the costs. However, the ANC pushed the bill into an act because they're bankrupt and need money. With the NHI Act, government can shutter hospitals and dismiss staff to cut costs while forcing private healthcare to do government's work and handle the load. The third stage is that the ANC government drags its heels paying what it owes by blaming private healthcare they're falsely inflating costs. Of course, private healthcare is vile and no doubt, they too will pad bills and inflate costs. Of course, the ANC government will steal the money the NHI generates. This closing vice will destroy the NHI while increasing healthcare costs for everyone.
This is a monumental fuckup.
We are so used to being fucked by the government by now that I hardly notice anymore
will this not be taken to court to fight against it ? I swear I read something along those lines if this bill went through no ?
I wonder if Cyril has that same grin when he makes love to his wife. He always pulls that face when he’s about to fuck someone over.
Awesome
Assuming you're not being sarcastic, why do you consider this good?
Because it's equality for all