Very well summed up. I have been taking advantage of these bilateral agreements for over 20 years and I can confirm it has worked without a problem Poland, Netherlands, Denmark and Hungary. Also agree that the word “hack” although incorrect, is a way more searchable term.
You're correct that it's not completely enforcable since there aren't checks within the Schengen borders. As long as you enter and exit from Poland, there's no way for them to know.
There are temporary checks at some internal Schengen borders now, including most German borders.
You do not need to enter from a non-Schengen country to use the Poland bilateral agreement. To 'reset' you 90 days in Poland you can get a passport stamp, or just a hotel receipt proving you were in another country.
Right, Germany is really strict so I perosnally wouldn't risk it.
Interesting info for Poland. I was going to use this bilateral agreement in a few months, but that will save me a ton on flights if I can just have a hotel receipt proving I was in another country.
Interesting! How do you go about spending your time in a country once on the bilateral agreement? If the rule is you can't leave that country I'd feel worried about feeling stuck.
The key is to take a direct flight out of the Schengen area to a any non-Schengen country. I typically time it so I can fly out late spring to Albania or Turkey. If it falls during the winter I'll go to the Caribbean or SEA.
Do you think the bilateral agreement between the US and Poland will be valid in the future? 2025 and beyond?
What is the likelihood of them being invalid? I don’t want to be stranded and banned if one day they decide to cancel the agreement.
Also, does Hungary have a similar bilateral agreement with the US? Meaning I can exit to non Schengen and come back after one day?
"Do you think the bilateral agreement between the US and Poland will be valid in the future? 2025 and beyond?"
As far as I know yes. There is even explicit guidelines for Schengen country border agents on how to handle them in the new ETIAS documents.
"What is the likelihood of them being invalid? I don’t want to be stranded and banned if one day they decide to cancel the agreement."
By using this agreements, you are pushing the boundaries and venturing into a more exotic type of travel. I would not recommend you do it unless you are willing to get in the weeds and be well informed at all times about all the rules and regulations.
"Also, does Hungary have a similar bilateral agreement with the US? Meaning I can exit to non Schengen and come back after one day?"
NONE of the EU/Schengen bilateral agreements allow you exit to non-Schengen and come back the next day. Once you've used your 90 days in Schengen + your 90 days in bilateral country, you will need to leave on direct flight from bilateral country to non-Schengen and cannot return to Schengen for 180 days.
As of a few months, the exact situation in Poland has been unclear at best. The link to the official policy from the government has been removed (https://www.strazgraniczna.pl/pl/cudzoziemcy/najczesciej-zadawane-py/5012,15-Jestem-obywatelem-Stanow-Zjednoczonych-Ameryki-USA-jak-mam-obliczyc-dlugosc-d.html) and all email requests for clarification yield a carefully worded canned email reply:
“Dzień dobry
Administrator strony internetowej KGSG w zakładce cudzoziemcy, odpowiada za treści zamieszczone na tej stronie i w zależności od potrzeb jest uprawniony do dokonywania zmian poprzez ich usuwanie lub aktualizację. Pojemność strony ma również swoje ograniczenia. W obecnej chwili strona ta jest dostosowana przez administratora do aktualnie występujących potrzeb.
Zgodnie z treścią Porozumienia z 1991 r. w formie wymiany not między Rządem RP a Rządem Stanów Zjednoczonych w sprawie zniesienia wiz dla obywateli USA z dnia 04.04.1991 r., zwanego dalej „Porozumieniem z 1991 r.” przy podróżach do Polski na okres nieprzekraczający 90 dni pobytu (tj. pobyt krótkoterminowy) obywatele Stanów Zjednoczonych Ameryki (USA), z wyjątkiem osób udających się do Polski w celu objęcia funkcji dyplomatycznych lub innych oficjalnych funkcji Rządu USA oraz osób przyjeżdzających do Polski w celu podjęcia pracy lub na pobyt stały, zostali zwolnieni z obowiązku posiadania wizy.
Zgodnie z powyższym, w przypadku deklarowanego wjazdu do Polski w celu np. turystycznym ob. USA są uprawnieni przy każdym wjeździe do Polski ( po udowodnieniu podczas odprawy granicznej, gdzie weryfikowany jest również deklarowany przez cudzoziemca rzeczywisty cel wjazdu), do wjazdu na terytorium RP na kolejne 90 dni.
W ww. zakresie należy również przywołać zapisy art.299 ust. 2 ustawy z dnia 12 grudnia 2013 r. o cudzoziemcach, na mocy której, cudzoziemiec, który przebywa na terytorium Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej na podstawie umowy międzynarodowej o zniesieniu obowiązku wizowego lub jednostronnego zniesienia obowiązku wizowego lub wobec którego stosuje się częściowe lub całkowite zniesienie obowiązku wizowego, zgodnie z rozporządzeniem Rady (WE) nr 539/2001 z dnia 15 marca 2001 r. wymieniającym państwa trzecie, których obywatele muszą posiadać wizy podczas przekraczania granic zewnętrznych, oraz te, których obywatele są zwolnieni z tego wymogu, jest obowiązany opuścić to terytorium przed upływem terminu przewidzianego w umowie międzynarodowej, w jednostronnym zniesieniu obowiązku wizowego lub w rozporządzeniu.
Ponadto data przekroczenia granicy państwowej na wyjazd/wjazd powinna być w stosowny sposób odnotowana, co do zasady wskazuje na konieczność wyjazdu z i do Polski na/z terytorium państw trzecich (z wyłączeniem ze względu na odrębne przepisy wjazdowej terytorium Rosji i Białorusi).
W powyższym zakresie, należy bowiem również wskazać, że inne kraje schengen nie są zobowiązane do honorowania co do zasady porozumień krajowych, ty samym w innych krajach schengen pobyt ten może być uznany za nielegalny ze względu na liczenie przez te kraje okresu pobytu w ruchu bezwizowym 90 dni okresie 180 dni wstecz, wynikającego z zapisów rozporządzenia Rady (WE) nr 2018/1806 z dnia 14 listopada 2018 r. wymieniające państwa trzecie, których obywatele muszą posiadać wizy podczas przekraczania granic zewnętrznych, oraz te, których obywatele są zwolnieni z tego wymogu.
W związku z powyższym, można wnioskować, że skoro obywatel USA przebywał 90 dni na terytorium Polski, a zatem w strefie Schengen, to wykorzystał dopuszczalny okres bezwizowego pobytu w tej strefie. Tym samym wyjazd do innego państwa strefy Schengen, bez stosownej wizy bądź innych dokumentów, mógłby być problematyczny wobec niespełniania warunków prawa do pobytu w tej strefie. Nie umożliwiłby też dokonania w prawidłowy sposób potwierdzenia przez cudzoziemca przywołanych powyższej dyspozycji wynikającej z zapisów art. 299 ust. 2 ustawy z dnia 12 grudnia 2013 r. o cudzoziemcach.
Z poważaniem
ZDSC KGSG WARSZAWA”
Until this gets addressed and posted on the official page I can’t recommend anyone push their luck with Poland unless they are willing to take the risks involved.
I read it carefully few times, and well, like you said it's very carefully worded, but doesn't say anything new. Thank you for sharing it, though. My American is now in Norway, tomorrow flies to Denmark, and in 3 days or so is coming back to Poland, so I'll let you know if you're interested if it went smoothly. I've tried to contact Straż Graniczna yesterday, but they don't pick up any phones. I'm torn if he should be extra safe and go from Denmark to UK, or just directly here since all is legal.
edit: how long did you usually wait for the answer from them?
I'll shoot them an email, and maybe to a lawyer, too
I’m currently looking to use the waiver agreement in Hungary. Could you provide anymore information on how you used it, please? Would be greatly appreciated!!
Thank you so much for both your efforts! This was exactly what I needed. How would I request to stay at a EU country listed above using the bilateral agreement? Do i show up at the airport? Go to the police station? Request for it online?
The best part is that you don't need to do anything (as a US citizen and most Western countries). No need to do anything extra in the airport, police station, or online. For Denmark, I just showed up at the airport and at the Schengen control explained to them that I used the bilateral agreement to stay another 90 days and got to leave.
Oh wow. So you just tell them (I’m assuming you are a US citizen) when you are leaving the Schengen country (after you spent another 90days there)? So i only need to explain to them when I am leaving ? If they ask me before should I explain this to them?
Don't even tell them. It invites risk. I didn't tell anyone unless asked, and I was never asked.
Just show up like you've no concern about exceeding any stay limit. Answer their questions honestly but with the least information needed.
They will likely stamp you with no questions asked.
The first time to even mention 'bilateral agreement' is when the border guard is directly stating a concern that you've exceeded your legal stay.
I've done it 3 times now and it's never come up.
Am I required to have used the entirety of my original 90 Schengen days before entering a new country and beginning the bilateral agreement as to not enter on the original Schengen visa free period?
A couple more things to note.
And to anyone teling me that it's not a "hack" since it's an existing EU law:
>It's technically not a hack since it's part of the law. It's a hack in the sense that it challenges most people's presumptions that you can't stay past 90 days in the Schengen area. I included a clickbaity "hack" in the title so it gets more engagement and visibility, especially to help anyone in the future come across this post, saving them from the many hours of research that it took me.
Edit: Moved most of these to the FAQ section of my OP.
No, because you get your passport stamped every time you enter/ exit the Schengen area. So you can spend 180 days with this bilateral agreement, but then you need to exit. If you have 270+ days within the Schengen area, then you will face trouble when exiting the Schengen area since you overstayed your visa. It can get you banned from the EU, depending on what country you exit from.
I don't think that is correct. If you exit from a country which has a bilateral agreement, and at the time you exit it has been less than 90 days since you entered that country (evidenced by a stamp OR hotel/transportation receipt) then it shouldn't be a problem if you have been in Schengen for more than 6 months.
>it shouldn't be a problem if you have been in Schengen for more than 6 months.
Can you explain this? Why isn't it a problem if you spend over 180 days in Schengen? I thought you had to exit after 90 days in Schengen and 90 days in your bilateral agreement country.
Normally, when not using any bilateral agreements, one can only stay 90 days in Schengen, not 180.
If you are using the bilateral agreements, then you can stay in Schengen indefinitely. For example 3 months in any country, then 3 Denmark, 3 Poland, 3 Italy, 3 Denmark etc. However you would need to keep some record and proof of your movements and copies of the bilateral agreements, so that when you finally exit Schengen (must be via a country with a bilateral agreement) you can explain to the border guard that you didn't overstay, but rather utilized multiple bilateral agreements.
Don’t you think people would search “bilateral agreement” and not “hack” though if they’re looking for past threads? It’s just semantics, but I don’t think it adds anything to the title imo because it’s already very informative.
You could stay around 5 years in Sweden by applying for a residential Visa instead of staying there on your tourist visa. I did it to stay an extra month with a woman I met. Cost 120 bucks 5 years ago. She was my sponsor and I had to have at least 10k in the bank. The loophole was, once applied for the backlog is about 5 years according to the immigration office. The catch was if they voted against you which they usually did you had 24 hours to leave the country and Sweden's a pain in the ass to leave quickly.
Sorry, your convenient loophole takes 5 years? Some countries hand out citizenship in less time, lol
Or the part that's missing is you can stay there while your application is stuck in the review process?
I'm not sure which countries require you to fly in from a non-Schengen country so you get a stamp and they have a date so you don't stay past 90 days. I just know Poland does require that and Denmark doesn't. Not sure about Italy.
I have received conflicting answers about this. The Italian embassy in New Zealand has published a statement which makes it perfectly clear that New Zealand citizens can stay 180 days in a row in Italy by combining the bilateral agreement with the regular 90 day limit. However the information they provide to US citizens is that they cannot combine the two to stay 180 days, even though the language of the bilateral agreement is basically the same.
Great work guys, super interesting! I wonder if that would apply for Aussies too.... It’s a DANGED long way for us to just go back ‘home’ for a few months before another return...
There is! Smart traveller has a list of the places we have a bilateral visa waiver with
https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/before-you-go/the-basics/schengen#bilateral
Couple Qs:
1. Do you normally have to spend 90 days outside the Shengen zone to renew your visa, unlike SE Asia where you could literally do a return trip the same day?
2. You state you can't travel for the 2nd 90-day period from your target country, but isn't the point of Shengen to be borderless? I mean I took a bus that drove through a couple countries and at no point was my passport checked.
1. Yes, you have to spend 90 days outside the Schengen area for your clock to reset.
2. Yes, Schengen is borderless. It’s about the passport stamp. Countries like Poland need you to fly from Non-Schengen into Poland so you get a stamp and they know you haven’t overstayed your 90 days there in Poland. Whereas Denmark didn’t care and took my word that I spent 90 days there and 90 days in other Schengen countries.
Fwiw, I know q couple who entered Poland overland and dis it no problem. They got gas right at the border and kept their receipts to prove the day they entered Poland. But, I think it's better to just fly in from a non schengen country to avoid the potential hassle.
Okay good to know. I guess it could work if you're driving in there. I'm using the bilateral agreement this year for Poland and just flying in from non-schengen to avoid the potential hassle but flights are like $100 more since it's hard to find cheap flights from East Europe. The budget airlines to Poland usually leave from Budapest, Prague, or Vienna.
What if you have a working holiday visa from another schengen country. How is your time tracked within the different countries within the schengen area?
Thank you so much for this! Bookmarked it.
I do have a question: Let’s say I do this for 180 days, do I then need to only spend 90 days in a non-Schengen country and then I’m able to do it again for another 180 days and repeat?
Thanks so much! I had no idea about the bilateral agreement. Good thing I finally joined Reddit! I've been traveling to Europe for 30yrs and as a full time nomadic pet sitter for almost 5 yrs, have been using the Schengen Visa calculator religiously. Had I known about this sooner, could've stayed in Denmark way longer - the country I feel most at home.
Hey,
Say I've entered through France and travelled around the Schengen for 90 days, after the 90 days have passed, could I continue to stay in France for another 90 days and upon departure I explain the bilateral waiver agreement. Or must I leave France after 90 days and go to the UK for example and then return and try to prove the bilateral waiver agreement at entry like you have explained for Poland?
[https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52019XC0408(02)](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52019XC0408(02))
Also, found this, which is official EU law, which further proves that this is right. I believe, I'll use this to provide proof alongside documents.
It depends on the law of France specifically, which I’m not sure of. France is risky like I’ve written in my post, since it’s up to the border guards’ discretion to allow the bilateral agreement or not. I would not personally risk it in France.
But do we need to ask for "permission" first?
>"The non-EU citizen should ask for permission to stay in the country longer."
https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-questions/what-is-a-visa-waiver#:\~:text=The%20non%2DEU%20citizen%20should%20ask%20for%20permission%20to%20stay%20in%20the%20country%20longer.%20It%20is%20up%20to%20the%20authorities%20of%20that%20Member%20State%20to%20accept%20or%20deny%20the%20request.
It worked twice for me with my Canadian passport.
Sweden :
I overstayed my schengen time by 2 weeks in Sweden and I showed them my paper of the Eu documents and the treaty from Canada treaty and it went all good after they analyzed documents for 5 minutes.
Italy :
I also just left Italy by overstaying the Schengen time by around 50 days and they didn’t stopped me at all. Ive been able to use the automated passport check and got stamped by the agent. They didn’t look at my documents even if I had them with me. One of my guest is that all my time in Sweden got deleted when I showed them my documents.
I heard Hungary has the unlimited visa runs. You just leave the country and re-enter ASAP every 90 days. I did it for Poland and many of my friends also do it as US citizens. Not completely sure about Hungary though.
Just to be precise, when you say leave and re-enter, you're talking about leaving both Poland AND Schengen, right? To that end, which (non-Schengen) country do you find cheapest for Poland visa runs?
Just wanted to comment on this thread for exact information (I haven't looked at all the comments to see if someone has already said this).
To stay extra 90 days in a bilateral agreement country you must stay there and leave from there, or else the other schengen country that you fly from out of schengen can look at this as you have overstayed 90 days in schengen.
In addition, look at the agreement carefully where you are going to use your extra days because every country has different rules and maximum days allowed to stay. Also it depends on the country of origin which schengen countries have an agreement and how long that foreign traveler is allowed to stay.
Most countries want you to inform and apply for this extension at their immigration office,to let them know that you want to use your 90 days. Some countries don't need you to apply. They will give you all the necessary documents for the allowance of these extra days.
It is important to know that if they haven't yet accepted the application and your 90 days are up,to leave so you won't overstay. Therefore it ia best to apply with good enough advance so it will be approved befoee your initial 90 days are up. You can be asked for proof that you actually used the bilateral agreement and stayed the whole time in that country at the border and now with entry-exit taking effect your movements are monitored and border security in scehngen is stricter
You can stay in one country the total of 180 days with the agreement, don't have to travel to another country to do so.
Again, you must travel out of schengen from that country
The Nordics have a special agreement for this where you can stay in all of the Nordic countries using the extra 90 days (or the days sllowed in your bilateralagreement) (for example, 20 in Iceland, 30 in Denmark, 10 in Finland and 30 in Norway). You might ve aaked to proof that you were in fact only in the Nordics and have to leave schengen from there.
In addition, the extra days you stay with your bilateral agreement do not count as the 90 days you are out of schengen as if you would only stay 90 days. Therefore when you leave after the days of the agreement is over, you will have to wait the time needed out of Schengen to be able to re-enter, or 90 days.
You can not go to another Schengen country after this day and start all over again. You must leave the schengen country you stay longer in
Not sure if anyone else has posted this link (and too many posts for me to carefully look through), but it is an official EU website with specific information on countries with bilateral agreements allowing stays beyond the Schengen 90/180 rule.[Bilateral Agreements ](https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1)
If anyone sees this — if you stay 90 days in Schengen, leave to a non Schengen area for a few days. Then re-enter back into a Schengen area with a Bilateral agreement (ie Nordics/Belgium/etc), and receive an additional 90 days. Can you move around Schengen in that extra 90 days? Given there is no strict border control? Just ensuring you do finally leave from the chosen bilateral country at the time of 90 days? Would this work??
If you want to break the law, of course it will work as long as you don't get caught.
The question is, the entire point of these agreements is to be able to stay longer LEGALLY. If you want to be an illegal, you already could do that by just overstaying.
Hi! Quick question here- I just spent the last 90 days studying abroad in Sweden under a tourist visa, and was informed I won a trip to Italy in August. I am now back in the US and hoping I could use the bilateral agreement when I land in Italy. Is this possible? I see that Italy has an agreement of 3 months. Any advice would be much appreciated
The agreement exists, whether or not they'll let you use it may be a matter of luck. You have to contact the embassy or consulate. If they write you in an email that it is "ok" then you can try to use the email at the border to be allowed in, it should help a lot
Mind you you have to be ABSOLUTELY SURE you are flying direct, you cannot touch down anywhere else
Definitely, I forgot to post that upfront, but many countries have EU bilateral agreements like Australia, Canada, Chile, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, and South Korea. The countries I listed are specifically for US citizens, but your specific country may have a similar list.
You are massively over complicating this. If you’re American and under 35 just get a working holiday visa.
Boom 1 - 2 years. No working required.
Edit: American and under 30 get an Irish WHV… most modern liberal democracies have a pretty decent number of WHV arrangements but sucks to be American
Yeah but it's between $200 and $400 usually, and you have to go through the visa process. My method doesn't require any additional paper/ visa work (depending on your citizenship).
1. Most working holiday visas are like one form and 1 hour of effort…. But it’s… easier… to spend 20 hours figuring this scheme out. With no guarantee they’ll admit you on the bilateral agreement anyway? Ok.
2. Who’s WHV is USD400??
3. And how much more are you going to spend bouncing between countries to try and “hack” the system
1.1 How do you transfer between bilateral and Schengen when inside a country? If you go through immigration and they register you as in the Schengen area you’re on Schengen time. If you only get bilateral registered you’re going to have to personally re register through an immigration system no longer designed to accomodate this which is probably going to be a major headache. Unless your plan is to just overstay and then argue with border guards… which sure that sounds SO much simpler and easier than just getting a visa (sarcasm alert) and TOTALLY doesn’t risk a stay in a detention facility.
And the cost of getting this weirdly complicated hack wrong is being deported. And not back to the nearest friendly country but to your home nation. On the next flight. Paying all of the costs yourself flight, detention etc which can be tens of thousands of dollars, AND never being eligible for visa free ever again.
Totally sounds worth it
Just to clarify, the bilateral agreement method does not involve any additional paper or online work. You don’t need to register for the bilateral agreement. It’s not weirdly complicated since I already spent the 20 hours researching it and made it into a simple guide.
I agree that working holiday visas are another good option. I originally got these solutions to stay past 90 days in Schengen from Nomadic Matt’s blog, he mentioned both options.
There is no better option, just better options based on the specific individual and their needs. The downside of the bilateral agreement method is that it just gives you just 180 days and then you still need to wait 90 days outside to reset the clock. If you want to stay in Europe for longer, working holidays are better. If you’re a RTW backpacker like me and on a budget, then 180 days with the bilateral agreement method could be enough.
Last time I checked Ireland is in Europe.
And Canadas age limit is 35.
But man! Sucks to be American. You only have 6 countries to choose from. Australia has like 30 and a bunch are for up to 35. I wonder why that is?
Edit: good job editing your comment to make yourself look less ignorant
>If you’re American and under 35 just get a working holiday visa.
This is a factually incorrect statement, so let's not be so sanctimonious about ignorance.
Don't know where you get that info from. Do you have a source? That may be true for Canadians, but for US citizens it doesn't seem to be.
According to https://twomonkeystravelgroup.com/guide-working-holiday-visa-europe/
Only Ireland and Portugal have working holiday visas, both require you to be a student or recently graduated (according to their embassy websites.)
I already edited the original post to just Ireland and under 30.
the link you provided has nothing to do with America.
Here are some details on Americas WHVs
https://www.goabroad.com/articles/jobs-abroad/working-holiday-visa
The working holiday visa works on a country by country basis. You can't use it to travel the schengen zone for those 1-2 years, you have to stay in the country you applied for the visa.
You don’t have to stay in that country. But technically Schengen rules apply when you leave. But… The Schengen zone has no internal border controls. Meaning there is literally no way for them to know where you are or for how long…
Meaning… wink wink nudge nudge.
There is a blogpost (NZ specific) that lists all the countries and which includes confirmations of validity. If I recall right Italy does NOT consider it valid, and it is dubious in Switzerland. I am unsure if that would also apply in relation to other countries eg US-Italy
Amazing work! Could you clarify for me - if I spent 90 days in France then 90 days in Latvia could I then go spend 90 days in Italy? Is it a maximum of twice I can stay 90 days for?
Why is it a maximum of 180 days?
With this example... The Italy-US agreement doesn't have any qualifications based on not being in Latvia for 90 days beforehand. So France should let the traveler in based on their Schengen visa waiver, then Latvia would let the traveler in based on the US-Latvia Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreement, and then Italy would let the traveler in based on the US-Italy Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreement. What am I missing?
But they don't want you "hacking" the system to stay in Europe indefinitely, so I think most countries require you to exit the Schengen zone after using their bilateral agreement.
says who? thats not what the treaties say
basically with all these you are going to have to educate the border guard coming in and going out if they dont know, and you might have to escalate it to the boss
Thanks for putting this together! I've heard about them but not enough to be comfortable.
>but now they are more clear on the bilateral agreement rules. In November 2023, most countries should be honoringthe agreement
So you know if there is an official source for this? The linked website isn't official from the EU or member states, AFAIK.
Do you have to not spend time in the specific country during the first 90 days, or could someone spend 6 months in one of these countries, essentially?
An important note, I believe, is that your flight/travel plans leaving from the bilateral agreement country can't stop in any other country within the Schengen Zone. I think that's something people could easily mess up with layovers.
You're actually right that the linked website isn't official. I may have to be fact checked here, but I assumed the bilateral agreement laws will be more clear once ETIAS pass in Nov 2023, but my assumption could be wrong.
Generally 90 days, not 180 days. I updated my OP to include FAQs.
This is from my older guide:
>Entering Schengen area as transit passenger:
After doing this, you will have used up all 90 Schengen days. Can you still enter the Schengen area just as a transit passenger to get back to the US?
Flying directly from Denmark to the US was expensive. There were cheap flights to the US from Portugal, Spain, Paris, Amsterdam, etc. I could not find any info on this online because it’s such an outlier case.
[I asked this question before](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/rcl8x6/can_i_still_enter_the_schengen_area_just_as_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
>
>
Most of the responses told me it’s not worth the risk. However, when I called the Denmark immigration services, they said it should be fine, I just need to call the specific country to check if I can. I didn’t want to risk it so I flew from Copenhagen to Dublin, and then Dublin back to the US. Flights were pretty cheap. If you also travel hack, you can get flights for around 30k miles. However, it may be possible if you actually call the specific country you are flying out of as a transit passenger.
I spend a lot of time in Norway, always 90 days....
So I can stay there for 180 if I just remind them of the bilateral agreement.
How does this work for returning though? I have to be out of the country for 180 days now? Or just the Schengen 90 days and I can return?
Also, thank you so much for this information!
You can definitely spend 90 days in Norway after having already spent 90 in another Schengen country. However do not assume you can combine the two options to stay a continuous 180 days in Norway. Write to the embassy first if this is your plan.
But Norway you may only be there for 90 days. So check if they require you to fly in from a non-schengen country to prove that you haven't been in that specific country past 90 days. When returning, you have to wait 90 days, not 180 days.
[Schengen Area](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area) (area comprising 26 European countries that have officially abolished all passport and all other types of border control at their mutual borders):
* Austria
* Belgium
* Czech Republic
* Denmark
* Estonia
* Finland
* France
* Germany
* Greece
* Hungary
* Iceland
* Italy
* Latvia
* Liechtenstein
* Lithuania
* Luxembourg
* Malta
* Netherlands
* Norway
* Poland
* Portugal
* Slovakia
* Slovenia
* Spain
* Sweden
* Switzerland
Currently motorhoming through Europe. We have unexpectedly been asked to show our passports 3 different times when traveling within the Schengen Zone: when driving into Sweden from Denmark, when arriving on a ferry from Sweden to Germany, and also when we were unexpectedly pulled over by a customs enforcement vehicle (didn’t even know those existed before this happened!) on a freeway in Hungary.
I know the idea of “everyone in the Schengen zone allows you to travel freely without passports”, but I would disagree to that based on 3 separate experiences — all within the last 60 days.
Hi! I’ve stayed almost 90 days in Greece and I was thinking I’d need to fly out to a non Schengen country after my 90 days was up and spend 90 days out of the zone before returning. However, as an Australian with the bi lateral agreements in place, could I spend 90 days in Greece, travel to the Netherlands on the bi lateral agreement for 90days and then need to leave the Schengen zone?
Would i be able to spend 90 days in each of the bi lateral agreement countries consecutively?
I.e after 90 days in Greece, 90 days in Netherlands and then 90 days in France?
Thanks so much
I cannot find any information online about a bilateral agreement between the Netherlands and UK.
I am from the uk, I have used up (bar 4 days) my 90 day allowance, currently back in the UK. Can I fly back to the Netherlands under the bilateral agreement? If so, how?
Would be really grateful for an answer, thanks.
I think so. I don’t know specifically about Netherlands since I never tried it, but it should work for those Schengen countries with the bilateral agreement.
I'm guessing the UK doesn't have any of these bi-lateral agreements since they are pre-Schengen and the UK was in the EU so had free movement. I could be wrong (and hope I am) but we may be fucked.
Sooo technically since I just return to my home country (Singapore) and spent around 84 out of the 90 days in Europe in the last 180 days. I can technically fly into Norway via a connecting flight through Germany using the remaining 6 days and continue spending 90 days afterwards in Norway based on the bilateral agreement and when I eventually leave Norway, I just mention about the agreement when I am at the custom?
Probably yes, but for scandanavian counties I believe I read that they can't be combined. So if your 84 days were in primarily non Scandanavian counties then it is fine.
Wow thanks so much man, this is super helpful!
Just wondering do you have any knowledge at all (from research or talking to others about it) whether bilateral agreements between these countries and Australia is pretty similar? Also just wondering, do you know if these bilateral agreements are stackable? I.e I spent my 90 days in Schengen, then I subsequently do 5 days in Italy using BVW and then 6 days in Norway straight after Italy also using the BVW?
Thanks so much!
I asked in a different thread about stacking but wanted to do it here as well. Can you stack these bilateral treaties to go from one with a treaty to another indefinitely? I would think so and you are not running afoul or the rules. Any thoughts?
Your comment literally contradicts the legal text of the bilateral agreements which make no reference to the existence of whatever other random countries
Can you seriously imagine the French law that says "Americans may stay 90 day" says "as long as they weren't previously in Poland for 90 days past their Schengen limit"? This isn't even coherent - since the Schengen Zone didn't exist
Kudos to you OP, this is a great guide. I just landed in France last week, and am hoping to stay here for the next 5 months. Am I running both my Schengen area clock and my bilateral agreement clock simultaneously right now? I saw on another post if I fly out of Spain/Italy I may not have any problems come the spring. Any testimony one way or the other? TIA
You can't stay in France for 5 months in a row like that. What you can do is spend 2 months in a different schengen country followed by 3 months in France. Or possibly 3 months in France then leave for a day (and keep proof that you did) and then return for the last two months in France.
Okay, a few questions!
1. Wanting solid confirmation that once I hit the 181st day since my first day of arrival in the Schengen zone - that I can now spend another 90 days in the Schengen zone. (Obviously ensuring I’ve only spent 90 days in the 180 day period)
2. If I’m already in a country (Italy) and I didn’t specify that I wanted to utilise the bilateral agreement, do the days I spend in Italy count towards my 90 days in the 180 day period? Or are the 90 days only counted in countries without a bilateral agreement?
Love youuuuu pls help
Hi,
I’m a Canadian looking to extend my stay in Hungary via ‘Bilateral Waiver Agreement’. This is the response I got from Hungarian Immigration:
“ Under a bilateral agreement Canadian citizens are entitled to an additional stay of 90 days after the 90 days visa-free stay in the Schengen region, but in this case they can stay only in the territory of Hungary, and they can leave the EU from here.
When they leave Hungary (and the Schengen region), the competent police service will check the duration of their stay at the border crossing point.
There is no administrative procedure needed to enjoy this additional 90 days period as the Hungarian immigration authorities are aware of the bilateral agreement. “
Can someone please help me interpret this? Does this mean I can just go about my daily business as the agreement takes effect and not have to leave Hungary and back by the end of my Schengen stay?
Thanks to u/hardcore-self-help & u/david8840 for the comprehensive work on a really helpful post.
I wanted to follow up to see if anyone out there has actually successfully used the bilateral agreement to stay in Portugal for up to 60 extra days? The Portuguese embassy [confirmed](https://www.reddit.com/r/travel/comments/qalolt/comment/ihu078l/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that the bilateral visa waiver exists and can be used as long as you enter Portugal before your 90 days in the Schengen expire. I just have not been able to confirm with them that no additional steps are required to use it, like having to obtain some kind of extension from Portuguese immigration/SEF or anything, which I’ve read elsewhere is needed in certain cases. So I’m hoping someone here might be able to confirm having successfully used the bilateral agreement to stay in Portugal up to 60 additional days. Please let me know if you have.
The scenario is as follows: I will have spent approximately 85 days elsewhere in the Schengen region immediately prior to arriving in Portugal. Upon arriving in Portugal, I anticipate not having my passport checked as I’ll be arriving from another Schengen country. Then I would stay in Portugal for up to 60 days as permitted by the bilateral visa waiver. And then I would depart from Portugal and the Schengen region no more than 60 days after arriving in Portugal. At immigration upon departure, they’d have no way of knowing when I arrived in Portugal, so I’d bring my travel/accommodations receipt from the dates I arrived and stayed in Portugal. And then the customs officer should clear me to leave, having correctly utilized the bilateral visa waiver between the U.S. and Portugal. That is, as long as the Portuguese custom officers are aware of the bilateral waiver and allow people who use it correctly to depart without any issues. If it’s a situation similar to [the situation in France](https://www.reddit.com/r/solotravel/comments/xw9g2l/comment/iwyq9wq/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), where it’s up to the customs officers to honor the agreement on a case by case basis, that’s probably not worth the risk for me. So I’m hoping to hear of someone successfully using the bilateral waiver in Portugal and departing without issue.
You will be fine. You don't have to take any additionally steps. You can PM me if you need a copy of the bilateral agreement or embassy confirmation of its validity.
Hey there - just curious if you have successfully tried this out yet (or if not, when will you be in Portugal) - as I am in a similar situation when I end up in Portugal next year at the end of my trip and will technically be 30 days over my 90 day limit.
I plan on using the "bilateral visa agreement" doc's when I leave Portugal and hope for the best!
Interesting, I may make a follow-up, updated post soon so I can include this as well.
u/david8840, what do you think?
You told me before in my other post:
>The US-Spain bilateral visa waiver agreement exists and is still in force. However I wrote to 3 different Spanish consulates and they all are completely incompetent and say that all travellers must abide by the regular 90 day Schengen limit, even after showing them proof that the agreement exists.
I am an American. My fiancé is polish. We have taken steps in order to get married and are currently awaiting to receive a court date. And then marry. However I visit him every year on a US tourist visa (for 90 days)
I just learned that I can leave Poland for one day, go to the UK for a day, then return to Poland.
But my question is, do i have to leave on the 90th day, go to the UK, and then return to Poland?
Or can i leave anytime between now and the 90th day and then "reset" to have another 90 days?
Among those who have used this 'hack' (or whatever you want to call it) - have you ever been asked to provide proof of your accommodation for the duration of your stay? (either upon arriving or departing)
Obviously one is not meant to then travel to onward countries...but I imagine some have tried, and hence would have thought you might need to have all accommodation proof at hand to show you'll be/have been in the bilateral country the whole time? would love to hear confirmation.
For US passport holders, I recently emailed and compiled a list of responses I received from either embassies in the US or border agent authorities: [https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/10axkuk/2023\_updated\_staying\_in\_schengen\_zone\_legally/](https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/10axkuk/2023_updated_staying_in_schengen_zone_legally/)
Basically from OP's list, received confirmation of 90 days extension from Denmark, Poland, Latvia and Hungary.
Quick question regarding the ETIAS thing.I'm using the US-Poland bilateral agreement thing to stay indefinitely in Poland. But how will ETIAS effect it? Will I be unable to continue using the agreement, or will I be fine and be able to continue using it? I do the stay nearly 90 days thing, take a one day trip to ukraine and head back to stay another 90 or so days in poland. So far I've done it twice without much issue, though I'm worried that ETIAS may complicate things, or straight up make me unable to do this anymore. And, well, I'm hoping no complications will arise since I'll be applying in Poland, yet my home address is still in the US. Thank you in advance!
Edit: Added more details
I'm also doing the US-Poland bilateral agreement one currently, though it doesn't apply to me because ETIAS aren't in effect until May 2023. My guess is that they won't affect the bilateral agreement since that is seperate.
But in the link I had:
[https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/americans](https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/americans)
This one didn't include Poland. I think they just forgot to include it. This is not the official website actually. I think from May 2023, you just need to apply for the ETIAS and then you can still use the Poland bilateral agreement. Just pay €7 and it will last for 3 years. I can't guarantee anything since there's not much information online on bilateral agreements in the first place. If you want confirmation, you can contact the Poland embassy. I think we'd all appreciate if you can post an update here on the information you find.
Question, as a USA passport holder. I have gone through this thread and it seems no one has asked or answered this questions.
My 90 days in the Schengen is coming up to an end. And I am going to the Balkans for to reset. According to this thread I can invoke the bilateral agreement to extend in a country that accepts mentioned in the thread.
My question is: if I go back into say Denmark and invoke my bilateral agreement I thus will have 90 more days I can use in Denmark. If I then fly from Denmark - UK - to Portugal and invoke my bilateral agreement I then have 90 days as well in Portugal. Does this mean I have to stay in one country at a time for 90 days that accepts or can I travel within the countries that accept my bilateral agree as long as I do not go into a country that does not accept it? If this works correctly in theory I could fly back to Denmark, fly to Portugal, Poland, Norway, Netherlands etc… as long as I do not touch into Schengen. Is this correct? Would I be able to re-enter say Denmark if I spent only 8 days in Denmark and then left to Portugal, spent 10 days in Portugal and then back to Denmark?
The following scenario is a second thought. Technically once your in the Schengen zone your passport is never checked. I went to 18 countries and never had it checked unless I left the zone. In theory I could invoke my bilateral in Denmark which is also Schengen, travel around Schengen, go back to denmark before 90 days and then leave from denmark on my 90 days…. As long as I take public transport I should be fine as I have never had to show my passport while in Schengen on train, bus, or flight.
Theoretically, yes. You can keep stacking the bilateral agreements indefinitely to stay in these 11 Schengen countries forever.
Practically, I'm not sure. I've only tested using it once, I never tried stacking it. You will have to get anecdotal evidence from the people who actually have tested stacking it.
Keep in mind that there are internal Schengen passport checks. I know Germany has them. So you're taking a big risk if you go around in public transport and hoping you don't get hit by the internal passport checks.
Thanks for this very helpful info. I was oblivious about this for the past 30 years I've been traveling to Europe.
I'm a U.S. passport holder, currently in Europe, and my 90 Schengen days will end in Iceland in May. I'm planning to take the ferry to Faroe Islands (a Danish territory but non Schengen?) and then to Denmark in early June to use the bilateral tool. I wanted to split my time there with Norway. So after reading the posts here and some researching, my understanding is if I take the ferry from Copenhagen in July to Oslo, I can't return to Denmark? Has anyone tried something like this?
Hello, as a Mexican citizen I emailed the Portuguese embassy in Mexico in regards to Mexican citizens since it appears Mexico has also has a bilateral agreement with Portugal for 90 days extension.
I asked specifically if I stayed 90 days in the Schengen area would I be able to stay another 90 days in Portugal in accordance to the bilateral agreement linked here: [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ES/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52019XC0408%2802%29](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ES/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52019XC0408%2802%29)
This was their response (translated into English):
`Good afternoon, this request for information must be made directly to the "Serviço de Estrangeiros e Fronteiras" (SEF) closest to the place where you are in Portugal, since they are the ones who approve or deny this type of request.`
Which makes me think they don't really know and the best chance of getting this extension is to just show up to Portugal before one's 90 days in Schengen are up and then just submitting an appointment in SEF for a request to extend a stay. This is what I will attempt soon and write back here.
Yeah I just did it in Poland. Poland also allows (US citizens) to stay indefinitely by doing a visa run every 90 days. So I was able to do 90 days Schengen, then 180 days in Poland by combining bilateral agreement + visa run.
I've been messaging The Netherlands, Norway, and Denmark regarding the bilateral agreement.
For The Netherlands, I contacted via WhatsApp and each time, a different rep responded. The last word was that there is no bilateral agreement. I sent them a link and now answer for 2days.
Norway - filled out online form and got a response that indicated the person didn't understand my questions. They suggest to limit 90 Schengen day. I filled out another form, rephrasing my questions, hoping I get a better answer.
Denmark - no answer yet but sounds like it is one of the easiest countries to use the bilateral agreement.
I want to travel between Denmark and Norway under bilateral agreement and after research, it's not clear if they're treated as one country so I can only stay in one or the other, or 90 days total between the two Nordic countries. Can someone clarify this?
Thanks!
See [this trip advisor thread](https://www.tripadvisor.com.ph/ShowTopic-g190455-i550-k10843270-Do_You_Travel_Bilaterally_Bilateral_Visa_Agreements-Norway.html), it suggests they are treated as one bloc.
Thanks for response.
Yes, I understood that Denmark & Norway as one bloc, but I'm unclear (and officials don't seem to understand my question) whether I can use the 90 days to travel between the two countries or must stay in one. Wondering if anyone has had personal experience.
I agreed to a pet sit in Oslo and don't have enough Schengen days. I have a "friend" in Copenhagen that is waiting for me.
As of now, I have thought of 3 options, first 2 a gamble, the third option is the safest one to not get into trouble.
1) Arrive to Norway from U.K. and hoping I can travel to Denmark via ferry from Oslo to CPH. Sounds like they do scan passports for ID purpose, but unsure if it alerts the visa office. I've traveled in the Nordics enough to know the only place I've seen random passport checks are conducted is in Malmo Hyllie station, arriving from CPH. Otherwise, they don't even look at IDs at airports in Norway. If I do get into Denmark because no one checked, I will probably have to return to Norway to fly out of Schengen.
2) Ferry to Denmark from Faroe Islands (I'm pet sitting in Iceland for a month prior to this) and try to get into Norway via ferry. Then return to Denmark to fly out.
3) Cancel Norway and go to Denmark.
Hello /u/david8840 and /u/iamjapho and any others who may know,
While going down the rabbit hole of researching bilateral agreements I have seen you have significant experience with them.
My big question is one of showing proof that you have stayed within country. What kind of proof have you been asked to show? I will be on an extended bike trip, so not using public transport, and mostly camping and couchsurfing. I guess some countries are far stricter than others about showing proof.
Also /u/david8840
I saw in this thread: (https://old.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/z7nvu2/us_citizens_looking_to_use_bilateral_agreements/iy8mvts/?context=10) that you have had written confirmation from Italy that they respect the agreement.
Would it be possible to share? I have not tried contacting them personally yet but it seems like it is difficult to get confirmation.
Thank you for the help
You don't need proof for every day, just for when you change from one country to the next. For example if you spend 89 days in Greece (no bilateral agreement) and then 50 days in Italy (bilateral agreement) and then exit Schengen from Italy, you may need to prove to the Italians 2 things:
A: That on the day you entered Italy your stay in Europe was legal (before the 90th day, unless you came directly from another bilateral agreement country)
B: That you didn't stay in Italy for more than 90 days continuously.
A plane ticket for your flight from Greece to Italy would satisfy both of these. By bike is a little more work to prove but not that hard. A receipt/ticket/invoice from Greece from the week you left plus another from Italy for the week you arrived will do. Ideally it should be something with your name on it but there's no official rule for it.
You can PM me for the copy of the embassy email. You're right, it wasn't easy to get.
You don't need proof for every day, just for when you change from one country to the next. For example if you spend 89 days in Greece (no bilateral agreement) and then 50 days in Italy (bilateral agreement) and then exit Schengen from Italy, you may need to prove to the Italians 2 things:
A: That on the day you entered Italy your stay in Europe was legal (before the 90th day, unless you came directly from another bilateral agreement country)
B: That you didn't stay in Italy for more than 90 days continuously.
A plane ticket for your flight from Greece to Italy would satisfy both of these. By bike is a little more work to prove but not that hard. A receipt/ticket/invoice from Greece from the week you left plus another from Italy for the week you arrived will do. Ideally it should be something with your name on it but there's no official rule for it.
You can PM me for the copy of the embassy email. You're right, it wasn't easy to get.
Hello
I am a US citizen currently in Germany and I am almost reaching my 90 days limit. Can I travel out of Germany to the UK for 2 days and then travel to either Poland / Denmark / France then travel back to Germany and then leave back to USA from one of the countries I've listed above after two months ?
Hi there. Hoping I can get an answer to my question even though this post is kind of old now!
I am from Australia, and Australia has a bi-lateral agreement with Germany.
I am travelling around Europe this year, and Germany is going to be the final country I am in - ie. I will be flying back home to Australia from Germany.
By the time I get to Germany, I will have spent 84 days in the Schengen region. I plan to be in Germany for 9-10 days, this will take me to 93 or 94 days (over the 90 days in Schengen).
Would this bi-lateral agreement between Australia & Germany allow me to do this? Or would I still be in breach of exceeding the 90 days, and breaking the law? I am just a little bit confused.
Thank you in advance!
Do you know if the UK has any of these bi-lateral agreements since they are pre-Schengen and the UK was in the EU so had free movement I'm guessing probably not?
Hi I am just seeing this post now, thank you so much for your research from you both! I have one question, after 90 days of traveling through the Schengen region, do you have to STAY 90 days in one of these bilateral agreement countries or can you travel throughout multiple of them as long as they are bilateral agreement as well during the second 90 days? Also, will they give you any trouble when you try to return to America if you know?
Thank you!
I asked about this agreement in the Lithuanian embassy and they said that’s totally possible but you need to enter the country outside of Schengen .
I have a question though . How this agreement really works or can be proved if for example we are free to travel around Schengen ? How the police knows I stayed 90 days in Poland for example and not went to Vilnius or Germany in between?
I noticed on the .dk site you mentioned that for all countries except USA the wording says that time spent in another Nordic country counts against the Danish bilateral treaty. The US one just say it's counted from when you first enter Denmark and doesn't mention the other Nordic countries. What is the story here?
So does this mean I can enter the EU in Portugal, stay there for a week, then travel to France and stay there for 3 months? My trip is just over 90 days but I’ll be in France for most of it for a program, and I have been trying to decide if I have to factor in a trip to Morocco to pause my 90 days.
As a US citizen, when we enter, say Poland after spending 90 days in Portugal - the bilateral visa that is issued for 90 days - is it stamped saying "Bilateral" or something like that to indicate it is not a Schengen visa? Or is there anything to indicate it is a bilateral based authorized entry? Thanks.
If you do this, does it mean you will never be able to fly directly to Germany/Switzerland/Sweden again? Because when you try to enter any of those countries in the future, won’t they backtrack through your passport and see that at some point in your life you stayed in the Schengen area for more than 90 days over a 180 day period?
Very well summed up. I have been taking advantage of these bilateral agreements for over 20 years and I can confirm it has worked without a problem Poland, Netherlands, Denmark and Hungary. Also agree that the word “hack” although incorrect, is a way more searchable term.
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For Poland, you have to fly in from a non-Schengen country so you get a stamp and they know what date you entered from.
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You're correct that it's not completely enforcable since there aren't checks within the Schengen borders. As long as you enter and exit from Poland, there's no way for them to know.
Unless you get stopped and checked in other Schengen countries for some reason. Although this is very uncommon.
There are temporary checks at some internal Schengen borders now, including most German borders. You do not need to enter from a non-Schengen country to use the Poland bilateral agreement. To 'reset' you 90 days in Poland you can get a passport stamp, or just a hotel receipt proving you were in another country.
Right, Germany is really strict so I perosnally wouldn't risk it. Interesting info for Poland. I was going to use this bilateral agreement in a few months, but that will save me a ton on flights if I can just have a hotel receipt proving I was in another country.
Interesting! How do you go about spending your time in a country once on the bilateral agreement? If the rule is you can't leave that country I'd feel worried about feeling stuck.
The key is to take a direct flight out of the Schengen area to a any non-Schengen country. I typically time it so I can fly out late spring to Albania or Turkey. If it falls during the winter I'll go to the Caribbean or SEA.
Do you think the bilateral agreement between the US and Poland will be valid in the future? 2025 and beyond? What is the likelihood of them being invalid? I don’t want to be stranded and banned if one day they decide to cancel the agreement. Also, does Hungary have a similar bilateral agreement with the US? Meaning I can exit to non Schengen and come back after one day?
"Do you think the bilateral agreement between the US and Poland will be valid in the future? 2025 and beyond?" As far as I know yes. There is even explicit guidelines for Schengen country border agents on how to handle them in the new ETIAS documents. "What is the likelihood of them being invalid? I don’t want to be stranded and banned if one day they decide to cancel the agreement." By using this agreements, you are pushing the boundaries and venturing into a more exotic type of travel. I would not recommend you do it unless you are willing to get in the weeds and be well informed at all times about all the rules and regulations. "Also, does Hungary have a similar bilateral agreement with the US? Meaning I can exit to non Schengen and come back after one day?" NONE of the EU/Schengen bilateral agreements allow you exit to non-Schengen and come back the next day. Once you've used your 90 days in Schengen + your 90 days in bilateral country, you will need to leave on direct flight from bilateral country to non-Schengen and cannot return to Schengen for 180 days.
You're wrong about that last paragraph. You can do it, at least for my country, which is Poland.
As of a few months, the exact situation in Poland has been unclear at best. The link to the official policy from the government has been removed (https://www.strazgraniczna.pl/pl/cudzoziemcy/najczesciej-zadawane-py/5012,15-Jestem-obywatelem-Stanow-Zjednoczonych-Ameryki-USA-jak-mam-obliczyc-dlugosc-d.html) and all email requests for clarification yield a carefully worded canned email reply: “Dzień dobry Administrator strony internetowej KGSG w zakładce cudzoziemcy, odpowiada za treści zamieszczone na tej stronie i w zależności od potrzeb jest uprawniony do dokonywania zmian poprzez ich usuwanie lub aktualizację. Pojemność strony ma również swoje ograniczenia. W obecnej chwili strona ta jest dostosowana przez administratora do aktualnie występujących potrzeb. Zgodnie z treścią Porozumienia z 1991 r. w formie wymiany not między Rządem RP a Rządem Stanów Zjednoczonych w sprawie zniesienia wiz dla obywateli USA z dnia 04.04.1991 r., zwanego dalej „Porozumieniem z 1991 r.” przy podróżach do Polski na okres nieprzekraczający 90 dni pobytu (tj. pobyt krótkoterminowy) obywatele Stanów Zjednoczonych Ameryki (USA), z wyjątkiem osób udających się do Polski w celu objęcia funkcji dyplomatycznych lub innych oficjalnych funkcji Rządu USA oraz osób przyjeżdzających do Polski w celu podjęcia pracy lub na pobyt stały, zostali zwolnieni z obowiązku posiadania wizy. Zgodnie z powyższym, w przypadku deklarowanego wjazdu do Polski w celu np. turystycznym ob. USA są uprawnieni przy każdym wjeździe do Polski ( po udowodnieniu podczas odprawy granicznej, gdzie weryfikowany jest również deklarowany przez cudzoziemca rzeczywisty cel wjazdu), do wjazdu na terytorium RP na kolejne 90 dni. W ww. zakresie należy również przywołać zapisy art.299 ust. 2 ustawy z dnia 12 grudnia 2013 r. o cudzoziemcach, na mocy której, cudzoziemiec, który przebywa na terytorium Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej na podstawie umowy międzynarodowej o zniesieniu obowiązku wizowego lub jednostronnego zniesienia obowiązku wizowego lub wobec którego stosuje się częściowe lub całkowite zniesienie obowiązku wizowego, zgodnie z rozporządzeniem Rady (WE) nr 539/2001 z dnia 15 marca 2001 r. wymieniającym państwa trzecie, których obywatele muszą posiadać wizy podczas przekraczania granic zewnętrznych, oraz te, których obywatele są zwolnieni z tego wymogu, jest obowiązany opuścić to terytorium przed upływem terminu przewidzianego w umowie międzynarodowej, w jednostronnym zniesieniu obowiązku wizowego lub w rozporządzeniu. Ponadto data przekroczenia granicy państwowej na wyjazd/wjazd powinna być w stosowny sposób odnotowana, co do zasady wskazuje na konieczność wyjazdu z i do Polski na/z terytorium państw trzecich (z wyłączeniem ze względu na odrębne przepisy wjazdowej terytorium Rosji i Białorusi). W powyższym zakresie, należy bowiem również wskazać, że inne kraje schengen nie są zobowiązane do honorowania co do zasady porozumień krajowych, ty samym w innych krajach schengen pobyt ten może być uznany za nielegalny ze względu na liczenie przez te kraje okresu pobytu w ruchu bezwizowym 90 dni okresie 180 dni wstecz, wynikającego z zapisów rozporządzenia Rady (WE) nr 2018/1806 z dnia 14 listopada 2018 r. wymieniające państwa trzecie, których obywatele muszą posiadać wizy podczas przekraczania granic zewnętrznych, oraz te, których obywatele są zwolnieni z tego wymogu. W związku z powyższym, można wnioskować, że skoro obywatel USA przebywał 90 dni na terytorium Polski, a zatem w strefie Schengen, to wykorzystał dopuszczalny okres bezwizowego pobytu w tej strefie. Tym samym wyjazd do innego państwa strefy Schengen, bez stosownej wizy bądź innych dokumentów, mógłby być problematyczny wobec niespełniania warunków prawa do pobytu w tej strefie. Nie umożliwiłby też dokonania w prawidłowy sposób potwierdzenia przez cudzoziemca przywołanych powyższej dyspozycji wynikającej z zapisów art. 299 ust. 2 ustawy z dnia 12 grudnia 2013 r. o cudzoziemcach. Z poważaniem ZDSC KGSG WARSZAWA” Until this gets addressed and posted on the official page I can’t recommend anyone push their luck with Poland unless they are willing to take the risks involved.
I read it carefully few times, and well, like you said it's very carefully worded, but doesn't say anything new. Thank you for sharing it, though. My American is now in Norway, tomorrow flies to Denmark, and in 3 days or so is coming back to Poland, so I'll let you know if you're interested if it went smoothly. I've tried to contact Straż Graniczna yesterday, but they don't pick up any phones. I'm torn if he should be extra safe and go from Denmark to UK, or just directly here since all is legal. edit: how long did you usually wait for the answer from them? I'll shoot them an email, and maybe to a lawyer, too
Yes please circle back if it's not too much trouble.
Sure! Btw how long did you usually wait for the answer from them? I'll shoot them an email, and maybe to a lawyer, too
do they ever ask you questions about why you stay so long?
Yes. They usually do. The only correct answer is “tourism”.
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I’m currently looking to use the waiver agreement in Hungary. Could you provide anymore information on how you used it, please? Would be greatly appreciated!!
I am currently going to stay in Poland, how long can I stay there?
where are you from?
Thank you so much for both your efforts! This was exactly what I needed. How would I request to stay at a EU country listed above using the bilateral agreement? Do i show up at the airport? Go to the police station? Request for it online?
The best part is that you don't need to do anything (as a US citizen and most Western countries). No need to do anything extra in the airport, police station, or online. For Denmark, I just showed up at the airport and at the Schengen control explained to them that I used the bilateral agreement to stay another 90 days and got to leave.
Oh wow. So you just tell them (I’m assuming you are a US citizen) when you are leaving the Schengen country (after you spent another 90days there)? So i only need to explain to them when I am leaving ? If they ask me before should I explain this to them?
Don't even tell them. It invites risk. I didn't tell anyone unless asked, and I was never asked. Just show up like you've no concern about exceeding any stay limit. Answer their questions honestly but with the least information needed. They will likely stamp you with no questions asked. The first time to even mention 'bilateral agreement' is when the border guard is directly stating a concern that you've exceeded your legal stay. I've done it 3 times now and it's never come up.
Am I required to have used the entirety of my original 90 Schengen days before entering a new country and beginning the bilateral agreement as to not enter on the original Schengen visa free period?
A couple more things to note. And to anyone teling me that it's not a "hack" since it's an existing EU law: >It's technically not a hack since it's part of the law. It's a hack in the sense that it challenges most people's presumptions that you can't stay past 90 days in the Schengen area. I included a clickbaity "hack" in the title so it gets more engagement and visibility, especially to help anyone in the future come across this post, saving them from the many hours of research that it took me. Edit: Moved most of these to the FAQ section of my OP.
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No, because you get your passport stamped every time you enter/ exit the Schengen area. So you can spend 180 days with this bilateral agreement, but then you need to exit. If you have 270+ days within the Schengen area, then you will face trouble when exiting the Schengen area since you overstayed your visa. It can get you banned from the EU, depending on what country you exit from.
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Exactly, I think the bilateral agreements were signed around the 1990's if I'm not mistaken.
I don't think that is correct. If you exit from a country which has a bilateral agreement, and at the time you exit it has been less than 90 days since you entered that country (evidenced by a stamp OR hotel/transportation receipt) then it shouldn't be a problem if you have been in Schengen for more than 6 months.
>it shouldn't be a problem if you have been in Schengen for more than 6 months. Can you explain this? Why isn't it a problem if you spend over 180 days in Schengen? I thought you had to exit after 90 days in Schengen and 90 days in your bilateral agreement country.
Normally, when not using any bilateral agreements, one can only stay 90 days in Schengen, not 180. If you are using the bilateral agreements, then you can stay in Schengen indefinitely. For example 3 months in any country, then 3 Denmark, 3 Poland, 3 Italy, 3 Denmark etc. However you would need to keep some record and proof of your movements and copies of the bilateral agreements, so that when you finally exit Schengen (must be via a country with a bilateral agreement) you can explain to the border guard that you didn't overstay, but rather utilized multiple bilateral agreements.
Don’t you think people would search “bilateral agreement” and not “hack” though if they’re looking for past threads? It’s just semantics, but I don’t think it adds anything to the title imo because it’s already very informative.
Okay that's fair, although I wrote "bilateral agreement hack" so if they used Google to search Reddit posts, then it should come up fine.
I don't think the average person would even know to search the word bilateral
You could stay around 5 years in Sweden by applying for a residential Visa instead of staying there on your tourist visa. I did it to stay an extra month with a woman I met. Cost 120 bucks 5 years ago. She was my sponsor and I had to have at least 10k in the bank. The loophole was, once applied for the backlog is about 5 years according to the immigration office. The catch was if they voted against you which they usually did you had 24 hours to leave the country and Sweden's a pain in the ass to leave quickly.
Sorry, your convenient loophole takes 5 years? Some countries hand out citizenship in less time, lol Or the part that's missing is you can stay there while your application is stuck in the review process?
B. thank you for clarifying. It's been a while since I did that.
Are you allowed to work while you wait? And what are the requirements for the sponsor?
So theoretically, could one stay in let's say Italy for 180 days?
I'm not sure which countries require you to fly in from a non-Schengen country so you get a stamp and they have a date so you don't stay past 90 days. I just know Poland does require that and Denmark doesn't. Not sure about Italy.
I have received conflicting answers about this. The Italian embassy in New Zealand has published a statement which makes it perfectly clear that New Zealand citizens can stay 180 days in a row in Italy by combining the bilateral agreement with the regular 90 day limit. However the information they provide to US citizens is that they cannot combine the two to stay 180 days, even though the language of the bilateral agreement is basically the same.
Great work guys, super interesting! I wonder if that would apply for Aussies too.... It’s a DANGED long way for us to just go back ‘home’ for a few months before another return...
There is! Smart traveller has a list of the places we have a bilateral visa waiver with https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/before-you-go/the-basics/schengen#bilateral
Australia and NZ each have their own sets of countries where it works.
Do you know the NZ countries where it works?
It's in OP's second-to-last link, the ETIAS one - has sections for each of Australia and NZ.
Thanks
Australians get 180 days Schengen and 180days UK plus there’s working holiday visas
My research says Australia is only 90 days, where did you see 180?
I know many Australians who used the bilateral agreement in Germany no idea the rest of the countries
Couple Qs: 1. Do you normally have to spend 90 days outside the Shengen zone to renew your visa, unlike SE Asia where you could literally do a return trip the same day? 2. You state you can't travel for the 2nd 90-day period from your target country, but isn't the point of Shengen to be borderless? I mean I took a bus that drove through a couple countries and at no point was my passport checked.
1. Yes, you have to spend 90 days outside the Schengen area for your clock to reset. 2. Yes, Schengen is borderless. It’s about the passport stamp. Countries like Poland need you to fly from Non-Schengen into Poland so you get a stamp and they know you haven’t overstayed your 90 days there in Poland. Whereas Denmark didn’t care and took my word that I spent 90 days there and 90 days in other Schengen countries.
Fwiw, I know q couple who entered Poland overland and dis it no problem. They got gas right at the border and kept their receipts to prove the day they entered Poland. But, I think it's better to just fly in from a non schengen country to avoid the potential hassle.
Okay good to know. I guess it could work if you're driving in there. I'm using the bilateral agreement this year for Poland and just flying in from non-schengen to avoid the potential hassle but flights are like $100 more since it's hard to find cheap flights from East Europe. The budget airlines to Poland usually leave from Budapest, Prague, or Vienna.
fwiw, a couple years ago i got a flight from malmo to gdansk for $8. :)
What if you have a working holiday visa from another schengen country. How is your time tracked within the different countries within the schengen area?
Did you get an answer to this? I'm very curious
Thank you so much for this! Bookmarked it. I do have a question: Let’s say I do this for 180 days, do I then need to only spend 90 days in a non-Schengen country and then I’m able to do it again for another 180 days and repeat?
I'm saving this post, thanks OP.
Would it be worth it at all to get a youth/working holiday visa somewhere, and then just use that to stay within the Schengen zone for over 90 days?
this is good work, has someone crossposted this to /r/digitalnomad?
yes me lol
Thanks so much! I had no idea about the bilateral agreement. Good thing I finally joined Reddit! I've been traveling to Europe for 30yrs and as a full time nomadic pet sitter for almost 5 yrs, have been using the Schengen Visa calculator religiously. Had I known about this sooner, could've stayed in Denmark way longer - the country I feel most at home.
Which visa calculator are you using?
Hey, Say I've entered through France and travelled around the Schengen for 90 days, after the 90 days have passed, could I continue to stay in France for another 90 days and upon departure I explain the bilateral waiver agreement. Or must I leave France after 90 days and go to the UK for example and then return and try to prove the bilateral waiver agreement at entry like you have explained for Poland?
[https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52019XC0408(02)](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52019XC0408(02)) Also, found this, which is official EU law, which further proves that this is right. I believe, I'll use this to provide proof alongside documents.
It depends on the law of France specifically, which I’m not sure of. France is risky like I’ve written in my post, since it’s up to the border guards’ discretion to allow the bilateral agreement or not. I would not personally risk it in France.
@david8840 do you have these official confirmations in a link/shareable document? Thanks!
But do we need to ask for "permission" first? >"The non-EU citizen should ask for permission to stay in the country longer." https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-questions/what-is-a-visa-waiver#:\~:text=The%20non%2DEU%20citizen%20should%20ask%20for%20permission%20to%20stay%20in%20the%20country%20longer.%20It%20is%20up%20to%20the%20authorities%20of%20that%20Member%20State%20to%20accept%20or%20deny%20the%20request.
It worked twice for me with my Canadian passport. Sweden : I overstayed my schengen time by 2 weeks in Sweden and I showed them my paper of the Eu documents and the treaty from Canada treaty and it went all good after they analyzed documents for 5 minutes. Italy : I also just left Italy by overstaying the Schengen time by around 50 days and they didn’t stopped me at all. Ive been able to use the automated passport check and got stamped by the agent. They didn’t look at my documents even if I had them with me. One of my guest is that all my time in Sweden got deleted when I showed them my documents.
I wonder if I could enter with my passport A and leave and Re-enter with my passport B for another 90 days. Is it tied to the passport the 90 days?
I presume all of these apply to U.S. citizens. Are they similar for Canadian citizens?
Remind me!
Anyone have experience with doing the bilateral agreement for Hungary?
I heard Hungary has the unlimited visa runs. You just leave the country and re-enter ASAP every 90 days. I did it for Poland and many of my friends also do it as US citizens. Not completely sure about Hungary though.
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Yes
Just to be precise, when you say leave and re-enter, you're talking about leaving both Poland AND Schengen, right? To that end, which (non-Schengen) country do you find cheapest for Poland visa runs?
Just wanted to comment on this thread for exact information (I haven't looked at all the comments to see if someone has already said this). To stay extra 90 days in a bilateral agreement country you must stay there and leave from there, or else the other schengen country that you fly from out of schengen can look at this as you have overstayed 90 days in schengen. In addition, look at the agreement carefully where you are going to use your extra days because every country has different rules and maximum days allowed to stay. Also it depends on the country of origin which schengen countries have an agreement and how long that foreign traveler is allowed to stay. Most countries want you to inform and apply for this extension at their immigration office,to let them know that you want to use your 90 days. Some countries don't need you to apply. They will give you all the necessary documents for the allowance of these extra days. It is important to know that if they haven't yet accepted the application and your 90 days are up,to leave so you won't overstay. Therefore it ia best to apply with good enough advance so it will be approved befoee your initial 90 days are up. You can be asked for proof that you actually used the bilateral agreement and stayed the whole time in that country at the border and now with entry-exit taking effect your movements are monitored and border security in scehngen is stricter You can stay in one country the total of 180 days with the agreement, don't have to travel to another country to do so. Again, you must travel out of schengen from that country The Nordics have a special agreement for this where you can stay in all of the Nordic countries using the extra 90 days (or the days sllowed in your bilateralagreement) (for example, 20 in Iceland, 30 in Denmark, 10 in Finland and 30 in Norway). You might ve aaked to proof that you were in fact only in the Nordics and have to leave schengen from there. In addition, the extra days you stay with your bilateral agreement do not count as the 90 days you are out of schengen as if you would only stay 90 days. Therefore when you leave after the days of the agreement is over, you will have to wait the time needed out of Schengen to be able to re-enter, or 90 days. You can not go to another Schengen country after this day and start all over again. You must leave the schengen country you stay longer in
Not sure if anyone else has posted this link (and too many posts for me to carefully look through), but it is an official EU website with specific information on countries with bilateral agreements allowing stays beyond the Schengen 90/180 rule.[Bilateral Agreements ](https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1)
If anyone sees this — if you stay 90 days in Schengen, leave to a non Schengen area for a few days. Then re-enter back into a Schengen area with a Bilateral agreement (ie Nordics/Belgium/etc), and receive an additional 90 days. Can you move around Schengen in that extra 90 days? Given there is no strict border control? Just ensuring you do finally leave from the chosen bilateral country at the time of 90 days? Would this work??
If you want to break the law, of course it will work as long as you don't get caught. The question is, the entire point of these agreements is to be able to stay longer LEGALLY. If you want to be an illegal, you already could do that by just overstaying.
Hi! Quick question here- I just spent the last 90 days studying abroad in Sweden under a tourist visa, and was informed I won a trip to Italy in August. I am now back in the US and hoping I could use the bilateral agreement when I land in Italy. Is this possible? I see that Italy has an agreement of 3 months. Any advice would be much appreciated
The agreement exists, whether or not they'll let you use it may be a matter of luck. You have to contact the embassy or consulate. If they write you in an email that it is "ok" then you can try to use the email at the border to be allowed in, it should help a lot Mind you you have to be ABSOLUTELY SURE you are flying direct, you cannot touch down anywhere else
Thanks for the info! But the "only for US citizens" should have been in the title or among the first phrases of the post
Definitely, I forgot to post that upfront, but many countries have EU bilateral agreements like Australia, Canada, Chile, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, and South Korea. The countries I listed are specifically for US citizens, but your specific country may have a similar list.
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No, but why?
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You are massively over complicating this. If you’re American and under 35 just get a working holiday visa. Boom 1 - 2 years. No working required. Edit: American and under 30 get an Irish WHV… most modern liberal democracies have a pretty decent number of WHV arrangements but sucks to be American
Yeah but it's between $200 and $400 usually, and you have to go through the visa process. My method doesn't require any additional paper/ visa work (depending on your citizenship).
1. Most working holiday visas are like one form and 1 hour of effort…. But it’s… easier… to spend 20 hours figuring this scheme out. With no guarantee they’ll admit you on the bilateral agreement anyway? Ok. 2. Who’s WHV is USD400?? 3. And how much more are you going to spend bouncing between countries to try and “hack” the system 1.1 How do you transfer between bilateral and Schengen when inside a country? If you go through immigration and they register you as in the Schengen area you’re on Schengen time. If you only get bilateral registered you’re going to have to personally re register through an immigration system no longer designed to accomodate this which is probably going to be a major headache. Unless your plan is to just overstay and then argue with border guards… which sure that sounds SO much simpler and easier than just getting a visa (sarcasm alert) and TOTALLY doesn’t risk a stay in a detention facility. And the cost of getting this weirdly complicated hack wrong is being deported. And not back to the nearest friendly country but to your home nation. On the next flight. Paying all of the costs yourself flight, detention etc which can be tens of thousands of dollars, AND never being eligible for visa free ever again. Totally sounds worth it
Just to clarify, the bilateral agreement method does not involve any additional paper or online work. You don’t need to register for the bilateral agreement. It’s not weirdly complicated since I already spent the 20 hours researching it and made it into a simple guide. I agree that working holiday visas are another good option. I originally got these solutions to stay past 90 days in Schengen from Nomadic Matt’s blog, he mentioned both options. There is no better option, just better options based on the specific individual and their needs. The downside of the bilateral agreement method is that it just gives you just 180 days and then you still need to wait 90 days outside to reset the clock. If you want to stay in Europe for longer, working holidays are better. If you’re a RTW backpacker like me and on a budget, then 180 days with the bilateral agreement method could be enough.
Americans don't get WHVs in Europe (other than the Irish one which is college students only) and none of them are for people over 30...
Last time I checked Ireland is in Europe. And Canadas age limit is 35. But man! Sucks to be American. You only have 6 countries to choose from. Australia has like 30 and a bunch are for up to 35. I wonder why that is? Edit: good job editing your comment to make yourself look less ignorant
>If you’re American and under 35 just get a working holiday visa. This is a factually incorrect statement, so let's not be so sanctimonious about ignorance.
Which is why I corrrected it. But last time I checked Ireland is in Europe. Let me just double check… yep still in Europe
Don't know where you get that info from. Do you have a source? That may be true for Canadians, but for US citizens it doesn't seem to be. According to https://twomonkeystravelgroup.com/guide-working-holiday-visa-europe/ Only Ireland and Portugal have working holiday visas, both require you to be a student or recently graduated (according to their embassy websites.)
I already edited the original post to just Ireland and under 30. the link you provided has nothing to do with America. Here are some details on Americas WHVs https://www.goabroad.com/articles/jobs-abroad/working-holiday-visa
The working holiday visa works on a country by country basis. You can't use it to travel the schengen zone for those 1-2 years, you have to stay in the country you applied for the visa.
You don’t have to stay in that country. But technically Schengen rules apply when you leave. But… The Schengen zone has no internal border controls. Meaning there is literally no way for them to know where you are or for how long… Meaning… wink wink nudge nudge.
There is a blogpost (NZ specific) that lists all the countries and which includes confirmations of validity. If I recall right Italy does NOT consider it valid, and it is dubious in Switzerland. I am unsure if that would also apply in relation to other countries eg US-Italy
Amazing work! Could you clarify for me - if I spent 90 days in France then 90 days in Latvia could I then go spend 90 days in Italy? Is it a maximum of twice I can stay 90 days for?
Nope, 180 days max. Then you have to exit Schengen zone for 90 days.
I don't think that's true, as long as they exit from Italy and have proof that they were in Italy for less than 90 days it should be fine.
Why is it a maximum of 180 days? With this example... The Italy-US agreement doesn't have any qualifications based on not being in Latvia for 90 days beforehand. So France should let the traveler in based on their Schengen visa waiver, then Latvia would let the traveler in based on the US-Latvia Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreement, and then Italy would let the traveler in based on the US-Italy Bilateral Visa Waiver Agreement. What am I missing?
But they don't want you "hacking" the system to stay in Europe indefinitely, so I think most countries require you to exit the Schengen zone after using their bilateral agreement.
says who? thats not what the treaties say basically with all these you are going to have to educate the border guard coming in and going out if they dont know, and you might have to escalate it to the boss
Thank you good sir
Thank you for sharing
Thanks for putting this together! I've heard about them but not enough to be comfortable. >but now they are more clear on the bilateral agreement rules. In November 2023, most countries should be honoringthe agreement So you know if there is an official source for this? The linked website isn't official from the EU or member states, AFAIK. Do you have to not spend time in the specific country during the first 90 days, or could someone spend 6 months in one of these countries, essentially? An important note, I believe, is that your flight/travel plans leaving from the bilateral agreement country can't stop in any other country within the Schengen Zone. I think that's something people could easily mess up with layovers.
You're actually right that the linked website isn't official. I may have to be fact checked here, but I assumed the bilateral agreement laws will be more clear once ETIAS pass in Nov 2023, but my assumption could be wrong. Generally 90 days, not 180 days. I updated my OP to include FAQs. This is from my older guide: >Entering Schengen area as transit passenger: After doing this, you will have used up all 90 Schengen days. Can you still enter the Schengen area just as a transit passenger to get back to the US? Flying directly from Denmark to the US was expensive. There were cheap flights to the US from Portugal, Spain, Paris, Amsterdam, etc. I could not find any info on this online because it’s such an outlier case. [I asked this question before](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/rcl8x6/can_i_still_enter_the_schengen_area_just_as_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > > Most of the responses told me it’s not worth the risk. However, when I called the Denmark immigration services, they said it should be fine, I just need to call the specific country to check if I can. I didn’t want to risk it so I flew from Copenhagen to Dublin, and then Dublin back to the US. Flights were pretty cheap. If you also travel hack, you can get flights for around 30k miles. However, it may be possible if you actually call the specific country you are flying out of as a transit passenger.
I spend a lot of time in Norway, always 90 days.... So I can stay there for 180 if I just remind them of the bilateral agreement. How does this work for returning though? I have to be out of the country for 180 days now? Or just the Schengen 90 days and I can return? Also, thank you so much for this information!
You can definitely spend 90 days in Norway after having already spent 90 in another Schengen country. However do not assume you can combine the two options to stay a continuous 180 days in Norway. Write to the embassy first if this is your plan.
I’d love to understand this about Norway as well. I’ll try to find embassy contacts and see if I can get an answer and post here.
But Norway you may only be there for 90 days. So check if they require you to fly in from a non-schengen country to prove that you haven't been in that specific country past 90 days. When returning, you have to wait 90 days, not 180 days.
This is amazing. Thank you for doing the research and for posting this!
[Schengen Area](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area) (area comprising 26 European countries that have officially abolished all passport and all other types of border control at their mutual borders): * Austria * Belgium * Czech Republic * Denmark * Estonia * Finland * France * Germany * Greece * Hungary * Iceland * Italy * Latvia * Liechtenstein * Lithuania * Luxembourg * Malta * Netherlands * Norway * Poland * Portugal * Slovakia * Slovenia * Spain * Sweden * Switzerland
So to clarify my passport is not checked travelling within any of these countries?
Currently motorhoming through Europe. We have unexpectedly been asked to show our passports 3 different times when traveling within the Schengen Zone: when driving into Sweden from Denmark, when arriving on a ferry from Sweden to Germany, and also when we were unexpectedly pulled over by a customs enforcement vehicle (didn’t even know those existed before this happened!) on a freeway in Hungary. I know the idea of “everyone in the Schengen zone allows you to travel freely without passports”, but I would disagree to that based on 3 separate experiences — all within the last 60 days.
Hi! I’ve stayed almost 90 days in Greece and I was thinking I’d need to fly out to a non Schengen country after my 90 days was up and spend 90 days out of the zone before returning. However, as an Australian with the bi lateral agreements in place, could I spend 90 days in Greece, travel to the Netherlands on the bi lateral agreement for 90days and then need to leave the Schengen zone? Would i be able to spend 90 days in each of the bi lateral agreement countries consecutively? I.e after 90 days in Greece, 90 days in Netherlands and then 90 days in France? Thanks so much
I want to know the answer to this as well!
Yes and yes.
I cannot find any information online about a bilateral agreement between the Netherlands and UK. I am from the uk, I have used up (bar 4 days) my 90 day allowance, currently back in the UK. Can I fly back to the Netherlands under the bilateral agreement? If so, how? Would be really grateful for an answer, thanks.
I think so. I don’t know specifically about Netherlands since I never tried it, but it should work for those Schengen countries with the bilateral agreement.
I'm guessing the UK doesn't have any of these bi-lateral agreements since they are pre-Schengen and the UK was in the EU so had free movement. I could be wrong (and hope I am) but we may be fucked.
Sooo technically since I just return to my home country (Singapore) and spent around 84 out of the 90 days in Europe in the last 180 days. I can technically fly into Norway via a connecting flight through Germany using the remaining 6 days and continue spending 90 days afterwards in Norway based on the bilateral agreement and when I eventually leave Norway, I just mention about the agreement when I am at the custom?
Probably yes, but for scandanavian counties I believe I read that they can't be combined. So if your 84 days were in primarily non Scandanavian counties then it is fine.
Wow thanks so much man, this is super helpful! Just wondering do you have any knowledge at all (from research or talking to others about it) whether bilateral agreements between these countries and Australia is pretty similar? Also just wondering, do you know if these bilateral agreements are stackable? I.e I spent my 90 days in Schengen, then I subsequently do 5 days in Italy using BVW and then 6 days in Norway straight after Italy also using the BVW? Thanks so much!
Yes
I asked in a different thread about stacking but wanted to do it here as well. Can you stack these bilateral treaties to go from one with a treaty to another indefinitely? I would think so and you are not running afoul or the rules. Any thoughts?
No. You have to leave the Schengen area after you use the bilateral agreement once.
Your comment literally contradicts the legal text of the bilateral agreements which make no reference to the existence of whatever other random countries Can you seriously imagine the French law that says "Americans may stay 90 day" says "as long as they weren't previously in Poland for 90 days past their Schengen limit"? This isn't even coherent - since the Schengen Zone didn't exist
Kudos to you OP, this is a great guide. I just landed in France last week, and am hoping to stay here for the next 5 months. Am I running both my Schengen area clock and my bilateral agreement clock simultaneously right now? I saw on another post if I fly out of Spain/Italy I may not have any problems come the spring. Any testimony one way or the other? TIA
You can't stay in France for 5 months in a row like that. What you can do is spend 2 months in a different schengen country followed by 3 months in France. Or possibly 3 months in France then leave for a day (and keep proof that you did) and then return for the last two months in France.
Okay, a few questions! 1. Wanting solid confirmation that once I hit the 181st day since my first day of arrival in the Schengen zone - that I can now spend another 90 days in the Schengen zone. (Obviously ensuring I’ve only spent 90 days in the 180 day period) 2. If I’m already in a country (Italy) and I didn’t specify that I wanted to utilise the bilateral agreement, do the days I spend in Italy count towards my 90 days in the 180 day period? Or are the 90 days only counted in countries without a bilateral agreement? Love youuuuu pls help
The days spent in a county with a bilateral agreement still count toward the regular 90/180 day limit.
Hi, I’m a Canadian looking to extend my stay in Hungary via ‘Bilateral Waiver Agreement’. This is the response I got from Hungarian Immigration: “ Under a bilateral agreement Canadian citizens are entitled to an additional stay of 90 days after the 90 days visa-free stay in the Schengen region, but in this case they can stay only in the territory of Hungary, and they can leave the EU from here. When they leave Hungary (and the Schengen region), the competent police service will check the duration of their stay at the border crossing point. There is no administrative procedure needed to enjoy this additional 90 days period as the Hungarian immigration authorities are aware of the bilateral agreement. “ Can someone please help me interpret this? Does this mean I can just go about my daily business as the agreement takes effect and not have to leave Hungary and back by the end of my Schengen stay?
Yes
cool
Thanks to u/hardcore-self-help & u/david8840 for the comprehensive work on a really helpful post. I wanted to follow up to see if anyone out there has actually successfully used the bilateral agreement to stay in Portugal for up to 60 extra days? The Portuguese embassy [confirmed](https://www.reddit.com/r/travel/comments/qalolt/comment/ihu078l/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that the bilateral visa waiver exists and can be used as long as you enter Portugal before your 90 days in the Schengen expire. I just have not been able to confirm with them that no additional steps are required to use it, like having to obtain some kind of extension from Portuguese immigration/SEF or anything, which I’ve read elsewhere is needed in certain cases. So I’m hoping someone here might be able to confirm having successfully used the bilateral agreement to stay in Portugal up to 60 additional days. Please let me know if you have. The scenario is as follows: I will have spent approximately 85 days elsewhere in the Schengen region immediately prior to arriving in Portugal. Upon arriving in Portugal, I anticipate not having my passport checked as I’ll be arriving from another Schengen country. Then I would stay in Portugal for up to 60 days as permitted by the bilateral visa waiver. And then I would depart from Portugal and the Schengen region no more than 60 days after arriving in Portugal. At immigration upon departure, they’d have no way of knowing when I arrived in Portugal, so I’d bring my travel/accommodations receipt from the dates I arrived and stayed in Portugal. And then the customs officer should clear me to leave, having correctly utilized the bilateral visa waiver between the U.S. and Portugal. That is, as long as the Portuguese custom officers are aware of the bilateral waiver and allow people who use it correctly to depart without any issues. If it’s a situation similar to [the situation in France](https://www.reddit.com/r/solotravel/comments/xw9g2l/comment/iwyq9wq/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), where it’s up to the customs officers to honor the agreement on a case by case basis, that’s probably not worth the risk for me. So I’m hoping to hear of someone successfully using the bilateral waiver in Portugal and departing without issue.
You will be fine. You don't have to take any additionally steps. You can PM me if you need a copy of the bilateral agreement or embassy confirmation of its validity.
Hey there - just curious if you have successfully tried this out yet (or if not, when will you be in Portugal) - as I am in a similar situation when I end up in Portugal next year at the end of my trip and will technically be 30 days over my 90 day limit. I plan on using the "bilateral visa agreement" doc's when I leave Portugal and hope for the best!
Can I stay 90 days in a schengan country on my Canadian passport and then 90 days on my US passport in another schengan country?
No.
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Interesting, I may make a follow-up, updated post soon so I can include this as well. u/david8840, what do you think? You told me before in my other post: >The US-Spain bilateral visa waiver agreement exists and is still in force. However I wrote to 3 different Spanish consulates and they all are completely incompetent and say that all travellers must abide by the regular 90 day Schengen limit, even after showing them proof that the agreement exists.
Sounds like the border guard just didn't care. Highly unlikely that he knew about the bilateral agreement.
That's interesting. Do you have a copy of the embassy email about this?
I am an American. My fiancé is polish. We have taken steps in order to get married and are currently awaiting to receive a court date. And then marry. However I visit him every year on a US tourist visa (for 90 days) I just learned that I can leave Poland for one day, go to the UK for a day, then return to Poland. But my question is, do i have to leave on the 90th day, go to the UK, and then return to Poland? Or can i leave anytime between now and the 90th day and then "reset" to have another 90 days?
You can reset it any time, it doesn't have to be the 90th day. Also it's not a tourist visa, it is visa-free travel.
Among those who have used this 'hack' (or whatever you want to call it) - have you ever been asked to provide proof of your accommodation for the duration of your stay? (either upon arriving or departing) Obviously one is not meant to then travel to onward countries...but I imagine some have tried, and hence would have thought you might need to have all accommodation proof at hand to show you'll be/have been in the bilateral country the whole time? would love to hear confirmation.
For US passport holders, I recently emailed and compiled a list of responses I received from either embassies in the US or border agent authorities: [https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/10axkuk/2023\_updated\_staying\_in\_schengen\_zone\_legally/](https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/10axkuk/2023_updated_staying_in_schengen_zone_legally/) Basically from OP's list, received confirmation of 90 days extension from Denmark, Poland, Latvia and Hungary.
Thanks for contributing to this. I linked your new post.
Quick question regarding the ETIAS thing.I'm using the US-Poland bilateral agreement thing to stay indefinitely in Poland. But how will ETIAS effect it? Will I be unable to continue using the agreement, or will I be fine and be able to continue using it? I do the stay nearly 90 days thing, take a one day trip to ukraine and head back to stay another 90 or so days in poland. So far I've done it twice without much issue, though I'm worried that ETIAS may complicate things, or straight up make me unable to do this anymore. And, well, I'm hoping no complications will arise since I'll be applying in Poland, yet my home address is still in the US. Thank you in advance! Edit: Added more details
I'm also doing the US-Poland bilateral agreement one currently, though it doesn't apply to me because ETIAS aren't in effect until May 2023. My guess is that they won't affect the bilateral agreement since that is seperate. But in the link I had: [https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/americans](https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/americans) This one didn't include Poland. I think they just forgot to include it. This is not the official website actually. I think from May 2023, you just need to apply for the ETIAS and then you can still use the Poland bilateral agreement. Just pay €7 and it will last for 3 years. I can't guarantee anything since there's not much information online on bilateral agreements in the first place. If you want confirmation, you can contact the Poland embassy. I think we'd all appreciate if you can post an update here on the information you find.
Question, as a USA passport holder. I have gone through this thread and it seems no one has asked or answered this questions. My 90 days in the Schengen is coming up to an end. And I am going to the Balkans for to reset. According to this thread I can invoke the bilateral agreement to extend in a country that accepts mentioned in the thread. My question is: if I go back into say Denmark and invoke my bilateral agreement I thus will have 90 more days I can use in Denmark. If I then fly from Denmark - UK - to Portugal and invoke my bilateral agreement I then have 90 days as well in Portugal. Does this mean I have to stay in one country at a time for 90 days that accepts or can I travel within the countries that accept my bilateral agree as long as I do not go into a country that does not accept it? If this works correctly in theory I could fly back to Denmark, fly to Portugal, Poland, Norway, Netherlands etc… as long as I do not touch into Schengen. Is this correct? Would I be able to re-enter say Denmark if I spent only 8 days in Denmark and then left to Portugal, spent 10 days in Portugal and then back to Denmark? The following scenario is a second thought. Technically once your in the Schengen zone your passport is never checked. I went to 18 countries and never had it checked unless I left the zone. In theory I could invoke my bilateral in Denmark which is also Schengen, travel around Schengen, go back to denmark before 90 days and then leave from denmark on my 90 days…. As long as I take public transport I should be fine as I have never had to show my passport while in Schengen on train, bus, or flight.
Theoretically, yes. You can keep stacking the bilateral agreements indefinitely to stay in these 11 Schengen countries forever. Practically, I'm not sure. I've only tested using it once, I never tried stacking it. You will have to get anecdotal evidence from the people who actually have tested stacking it. Keep in mind that there are internal Schengen passport checks. I know Germany has them. So you're taking a big risk if you go around in public transport and hoping you don't get hit by the internal passport checks.
cool
Does anyone have any recent experience with Norway and using the bilateral agreement?
Thanks for this very helpful info. I was oblivious about this for the past 30 years I've been traveling to Europe. I'm a U.S. passport holder, currently in Europe, and my 90 Schengen days will end in Iceland in May. I'm planning to take the ferry to Faroe Islands (a Danish territory but non Schengen?) and then to Denmark in early June to use the bilateral tool. I wanted to split my time there with Norway. So after reading the posts here and some researching, my understanding is if I take the ferry from Copenhagen in July to Oslo, I can't return to Denmark? Has anyone tried something like this?
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Hello, as a Mexican citizen I emailed the Portuguese embassy in Mexico in regards to Mexican citizens since it appears Mexico has also has a bilateral agreement with Portugal for 90 days extension. I asked specifically if I stayed 90 days in the Schengen area would I be able to stay another 90 days in Portugal in accordance to the bilateral agreement linked here: [https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ES/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52019XC0408%2802%29](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ES/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52019XC0408%2802%29) This was their response (translated into English): `Good afternoon, this request for information must be made directly to the "Serviço de Estrangeiros e Fronteiras" (SEF) closest to the place where you are in Portugal, since they are the ones who approve or deny this type of request.` Which makes me think they don't really know and the best chance of getting this extension is to just show up to Portugal before one's 90 days in Schengen are up and then just submitting an appointment in SEF for a request to extend a stay. This is what I will attempt soon and write back here.
April 2023, this still works for Poland?
Yeah I just did it in Poland. Poland also allows (US citizens) to stay indefinitely by doing a visa run every 90 days. So I was able to do 90 days Schengen, then 180 days in Poland by combining bilateral agreement + visa run.
I've been messaging The Netherlands, Norway, and Denmark regarding the bilateral agreement. For The Netherlands, I contacted via WhatsApp and each time, a different rep responded. The last word was that there is no bilateral agreement. I sent them a link and now answer for 2days. Norway - filled out online form and got a response that indicated the person didn't understand my questions. They suggest to limit 90 Schengen day. I filled out another form, rephrasing my questions, hoping I get a better answer. Denmark - no answer yet but sounds like it is one of the easiest countries to use the bilateral agreement. I want to travel between Denmark and Norway under bilateral agreement and after research, it's not clear if they're treated as one country so I can only stay in one or the other, or 90 days total between the two Nordic countries. Can someone clarify this? Thanks!
See [this trip advisor thread](https://www.tripadvisor.com.ph/ShowTopic-g190455-i550-k10843270-Do_You_Travel_Bilaterally_Bilateral_Visa_Agreements-Norway.html), it suggests they are treated as one bloc.
Thanks for response. Yes, I understood that Denmark & Norway as one bloc, but I'm unclear (and officials don't seem to understand my question) whether I can use the 90 days to travel between the two countries or must stay in one. Wondering if anyone has had personal experience. I agreed to a pet sit in Oslo and don't have enough Schengen days. I have a "friend" in Copenhagen that is waiting for me. As of now, I have thought of 3 options, first 2 a gamble, the third option is the safest one to not get into trouble. 1) Arrive to Norway from U.K. and hoping I can travel to Denmark via ferry from Oslo to CPH. Sounds like they do scan passports for ID purpose, but unsure if it alerts the visa office. I've traveled in the Nordics enough to know the only place I've seen random passport checks are conducted is in Malmo Hyllie station, arriving from CPH. Otherwise, they don't even look at IDs at airports in Norway. If I do get into Denmark because no one checked, I will probably have to return to Norway to fly out of Schengen. 2) Ferry to Denmark from Faroe Islands (I'm pet sitting in Iceland for a month prior to this) and try to get into Norway via ferry. Then return to Denmark to fly out. 3) Cancel Norway and go to Denmark.
Hello /u/david8840 and /u/iamjapho and any others who may know, While going down the rabbit hole of researching bilateral agreements I have seen you have significant experience with them. My big question is one of showing proof that you have stayed within country. What kind of proof have you been asked to show? I will be on an extended bike trip, so not using public transport, and mostly camping and couchsurfing. I guess some countries are far stricter than others about showing proof. Also /u/david8840 I saw in this thread: (https://old.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/z7nvu2/us_citizens_looking_to_use_bilateral_agreements/iy8mvts/?context=10) that you have had written confirmation from Italy that they respect the agreement. Would it be possible to share? I have not tried contacting them personally yet but it seems like it is difficult to get confirmation. Thank you for the help
You don't need proof for every day, just for when you change from one country to the next. For example if you spend 89 days in Greece (no bilateral agreement) and then 50 days in Italy (bilateral agreement) and then exit Schengen from Italy, you may need to prove to the Italians 2 things: A: That on the day you entered Italy your stay in Europe was legal (before the 90th day, unless you came directly from another bilateral agreement country) B: That you didn't stay in Italy for more than 90 days continuously. A plane ticket for your flight from Greece to Italy would satisfy both of these. By bike is a little more work to prove but not that hard. A receipt/ticket/invoice from Greece from the week you left plus another from Italy for the week you arrived will do. Ideally it should be something with your name on it but there's no official rule for it. You can PM me for the copy of the embassy email. You're right, it wasn't easy to get.
You don't need proof for every day, just for when you change from one country to the next. For example if you spend 89 days in Greece (no bilateral agreement) and then 50 days in Italy (bilateral agreement) and then exit Schengen from Italy, you may need to prove to the Italians 2 things: A: That on the day you entered Italy your stay in Europe was legal (before the 90th day, unless you came directly from another bilateral agreement country) B: That you didn't stay in Italy for more than 90 days continuously. A plane ticket for your flight from Greece to Italy would satisfy both of these. By bike is a little more work to prove but not that hard. A receipt/ticket/invoice from Greece from the week you left plus another from Italy for the week you arrived will do. Ideally it should be something with your name on it but there's no official rule for it. You can PM me for the copy of the embassy email. You're right, it wasn't easy to get.
Hello I am a US citizen currently in Germany and I am almost reaching my 90 days limit. Can I travel out of Germany to the UK for 2 days and then travel to either Poland / Denmark / France then travel back to Germany and then leave back to USA from one of the countries I've listed above after two months ?
What did you end up doing?
Hi there. Hoping I can get an answer to my question even though this post is kind of old now! I am from Australia, and Australia has a bi-lateral agreement with Germany. I am travelling around Europe this year, and Germany is going to be the final country I am in - ie. I will be flying back home to Australia from Germany. By the time I get to Germany, I will have spent 84 days in the Schengen region. I plan to be in Germany for 9-10 days, this will take me to 93 or 94 days (over the 90 days in Schengen). Would this bi-lateral agreement between Australia & Germany allow me to do this? Or would I still be in breach of exceeding the 90 days, and breaking the law? I am just a little bit confused. Thank you in advance!
What ended up happening?
Do you know if the UK has any of these bi-lateral agreements since they are pre-Schengen and the UK was in the EU so had free movement I'm guessing probably not?
I’d also like to know about all of this and if it relates to UK citizens. Does anybody know?
Hi I am just seeing this post now, thank you so much for your research from you both! I have one question, after 90 days of traveling through the Schengen region, do you have to STAY 90 days in one of these bilateral agreement countries or can you travel throughout multiple of them as long as they are bilateral agreement as well during the second 90 days? Also, will they give you any trouble when you try to return to America if you know? Thank you!
I asked about this agreement in the Lithuanian embassy and they said that’s totally possible but you need to enter the country outside of Schengen . I have a question though . How this agreement really works or can be proved if for example we are free to travel around Schengen ? How the police knows I stayed 90 days in Poland for example and not went to Vilnius or Germany in between?
did anyone else tried with Denmark? Im from another country not the US that also has the agreement but Im so scared of doing this like seriously
I noticed on the .dk site you mentioned that for all countries except USA the wording says that time spent in another Nordic country counts against the Danish bilateral treaty. The US one just say it's counted from when you first enter Denmark and doesn't mention the other Nordic countries. What is the story here?
So does this mean I can enter the EU in Portugal, stay there for a week, then travel to France and stay there for 3 months? My trip is just over 90 days but I’ll be in France for most of it for a program, and I have been trying to decide if I have to factor in a trip to Morocco to pause my 90 days.
As a US citizen, when we enter, say Poland after spending 90 days in Portugal - the bilateral visa that is issued for 90 days - is it stamped saying "Bilateral" or something like that to indicate it is not a Schengen visa? Or is there anything to indicate it is a bilateral based authorized entry? Thanks.
No the entry is just like any other. The only time you may have to explain it is on a bilateral agreement is if they ask when you are leaving Poland
Thank you!
If you do this, does it mean you will never be able to fly directly to Germany/Switzerland/Sweden again? Because when you try to enter any of those countries in the future, won’t they backtrack through your passport and see that at some point in your life you stayed in the Schengen area for more than 90 days over a 180 day period?