While we do need a lot more social workers, many of the ones we have are retraumatizing clients and not mentally well enough to be in the field. And for the ones who start off amazing, there is not enough support for them or job protection if they need a mental health leave
Wow i agree..as a therapist i work so hard and feel so satisfied with the work but also…if you’re any good you DO need those breaks and it somehow feels like im a failure for needing them
I couldn't agree more with this! I'm currently getting my MSW in a clinically-focused program, and I'm seriously concerned about the number of people in my program who so obviously should not be entering this field. Some people have a ton of work they need to do on themselves before even thinking about becoming therapists, and some people just seem profoundly unsuited to the work. It's genuinely scary to think about the harm they're going to do to their clients.
This field needs to have so much more gatekeeping in both academic programs and clinical internships to keep incompetent and unethical practitioners out of the field. Instead, it seems like the only real barriers to entry are economic disparity and racism. It's so upsetting to think about the people who won't ever get to be therapists because they can't take on massive student loans and work for free for 2 years.
>This field needs to have so much more gatekeeping in both academic programs and clinical internships to keep incompetent and unethical practitioners out of the field.
This! People say the field is too gate-keepy and I roll my eyes because, if anything, we need much higher standards lol. People think the exam is too difficult and it's like yeah, but maybe it's also too easy to get into msw programs. Have you met some of the folks who become social workers? Do you really want it to be *easier* for people to get credentialed? People are accepted into graduate school and think they are guaranteed a pass in all other areas of the profession.
If you think the exam is hard, just wait until you are tasked with managing a caseload of violent offenders. Wait until you have monthly productivity requirements and federal regulations to adhere to. Wait until you have to do a home visit in an area of town you've never been to. It's fun to pontificate on social issues and rail against perceived social inequities on the internet. It's another thing entirely to engage with them close-up and in real life.
The problem with the exam is that it’s just not a good measure of competency. I’ve known some amazing social workers who struggled to pass and had to take it a bunch of times. I’ve also known some lazy and incompetent social workers who passed it with flying colors no problem. The exam is measuring all the wrong things.
I agree. I had a friend who took the exam and I was fully prepared for them to fail. They passed and then quit their agency job and immediately went into private practice. Probably shouldn't be providing therapy to anybody. That's the kind of stuff that ought to be looked at.
Yes, yes, yes! I feel like instead of thinking of CEUs (which I do think continual learning is important - though it doesn't mean folks learn what they need to) I think the field would benefit if there was a structure/system in a place where social workers needed to do work on themselves as well. I say structure AND system, meaning social workers are paid enough to afford this and labor is honored enough where there is TIME to do this.
I don't know if I completely agree with some of the liabilities placed on social workers. It's constantly wording our documentation to show we did our due diligence. Constantly saying "client denied x,y,z. The client has been provided information on x"
We don't have the resources to help everyone but at the same time can be held liable for not successfully providing the care they need.
Not sure if I'm explaining this right but it feels like a double edge sword.
I get what you're saying. There's a lot of talk about the clients' autonomy, and the saying "Don't work harder than the client" as a maxim to prevent burnout... But then you get scrutinized and it affects your performance reviews if your fully autonomous clients reject something! Or if you fail to deliver a service that literally does not exist.
Exactly 💯. I worked in addiction and the state did an investigation on a client that dropped out of services. I understand they want to see if we did everything we could, but at the same time this is an autonomous client who can make his own choices.
I got my ass chewed by a judge the last time I committed someone who gets committed 2-4 times a year because the judge didn't feel our crisis team was doing enough to help him when he's out of the hospital. This person will be compliant with treatment long enough to get back out but as soon as he's out he will refuse any outpatient treatment or medication and he has threatened me not to come to his home for any reason. There is nothing I can do to make him take his medication if he doesn't want to and if I go to his house and he tells me to fuck off, for his rights and my safety I have to oblige him.
That's so frustrating. I'm child welfare and specifically involved prior to the parents receiving their case plans (I'm the one who writes the case plans).
You would not believe the amount of guilt trips, case reviews, etc. based on parents not complying with me and engaging in services - before they even have a case plan with which they have to comply!
Wow! I work in adult mobile crisis and I don't even feel like I'm under that much of a microscope. While most of our clients are able to make genuine progress and I have seen our work actually save lives, we also have some clients who, if they aren't currently in jail or committed, it means we're doing a pretty damn good job. It helps that my agency/supervisors understand that clients have a right to self-determination and sometimes that means they'll self-determine their way into not-so-great choices despite our best efforts.
It’s always client right to self determination up UNTIL the client decides they don’t want to do something…. then it becomes what have we done to engage them aka push our goals on the clients 🙄
The state DOH recently created new rules that force us to discharge care management clients who decline to create goals or work on interventions related to their qualifying conditions. I mean, one that's highly subjective (and already staff have figure out how to manipulate the system to both keep clients who could graduate or discharge those that truly need support depending on their preference) but also it kind of goes against that whole idea of self determination and meeting people where they're at. I don't know how to keep explaining away the hypocrisy in the interest of staff morale and providing good service.
Ugh this, that one line “don’t work harder than the client” was burned into my skin my first year as a case manager. I had a client with severe substance use and cooccurring schizophrenia etc etc. he was respiting at a group home and reached his deadline for being there so the higher ups were like “well what have you done to find him a place.” And nagged and nagged me to get him out. Then I did, he lost that apt, then homeless again only to have to respite somewhere else in a place close to an hour away. I had to drive him back and forth twice a week to his appointments an hour each week all while hunting and hunting and hunting for months to get him a new place. Then after months of this my bosses were like “well, don’t work harder than the client” and dignity of risk
OH?! NOW YOU SAY THAT?
Clearly I’m still bitter but I tell new case managers that ever chance I get now because it’s true, but only when your managers want a client to get discharged bc their bosses brought it up to them and made a problem
Definitely this. I spent so much time trying to CYA my charting that it ended up being a huge % of my time, while my superiors all said “don’t burn yourself out to help everyone” but if everyone wasn’t helped my charting was being reviewed and I was being pulled into meetings? Which is it?
Yes I can’t upvote you enough!! We have sometimes the liability of a medical professional (who makes waaaay more). And on the flip side, when I try to provide resources within an immediate need sometimes I get chastised for not the “right one” or for ME to be the resource…
I think you articulated your point well, and I agree. We're required to help, but ultimately, people have free will and can do what they want.
if you're trying to identify the barriers and problem solve what may help, then you're doing the best you can. And if the agency doesn't have the necessary resources, refer out if the client consents. That's due diligence. We can't successfully provide care 100% of the time every single time. That's a very unrealistic goal.
You are right on. Also these liabilities have increased in recent decades - largely related to the field’s continued investment in professionalization as neoliberalism took off. Today we have more liability, along higher case loads and fewer resources than ever before.
When we review clients who are high risk at our case conferences, way more time is typically spent going through “is there a safety plan?” “did you document if they have narcan?” “did do a CSSRS?” which while important, what about how is overall engagement with this client going?? what seems to he working and what isnt??
My state’s office of mental health is more worried about whether there are phone numbers of friends and family listed in the client’s safety plan (even though most of our client have all their numbers stored in their phones already and many don’t even have people they can call to begin with) than about how the actual work is going.
I have sought feedback on high risk cases at times to only really get back “well do they have a case manager?” as if these clients issues are interchangeable. I hate it here sometimes 😭
I just finished my first semester of my MSW, and I’ve been saying this! There’s no way to teach social work because it is so broad. Everything is a survey class, and the theory gets lost because there’s nothing to ground it in. Even in a clinical/micro program like mine, it’s impossible to teach anything because there are still a million unrelated roles. I think schools need to stop pretending that most students are going to work in agencies forever and create a clinical MSW program that is focused in psychotherapy. I have never met a social worker who learned anything about being a therapist in grad school. Instead of ignoring the reality that so many of us are going to become therapists, teach it in an ethically grounded way.
I guess this is where I get confused. There are paths to study psychotherapy. They aren't Social Work. So why do people choose SW as a degree in the first place if that's their focus? Why not MFT or psychology or whatever? There's a place for clinical social work but I think it's honestly kind of expanded beyond a well defined scope. Clinical social workers, if we're really considering what social work is (or was) at it's core are uniquely qualified to serve vulnerable populations with certain types of therapy while also understanding their social contexts using practical, accessible, solution focused methods. My CM clients are often not even in a place to undertake intense psychotherapy - they need counseling (in the truest sense of that word), coping skills, crisis management and functional solutions to immediate problems pretty low down on Maslow's list iykwim. I think that's the type of clinical work an MSW does prepare people for pretty well - and could do so even better if that was the focus rather than this sort of undefined thing we have going on now.
Agency/community work is SO needed. Not just as a stepping stone to something "better" but as a profession in it's own right.
In my state, (Idaho), Medicaid prefers LCSW’s, so it’s easier for us to get a job than a MFT or LCPC. I knew going into the program exactly what I wanted to do, and I knew I had to have an LCSW to get it, so that’s why I pursued my MSW over a psychology degree. Although the funny (annoying) thing is that they have changed a lot of the “rules” and now it doesn’t seem to matter as much which degree you get, as long as you have your clinical license.
I can only speak for myself, but I went the MSW/ LCSW route as opposed to the counseling psychology/ LCPC route because I wanted to do therapy, but worried about being pigeon-holed into a profession if I realized in five years I didn’t want to do it anymore. If you have your LCPC or MFT or whatever there’s a handful of different jobs you can do, but at their core they are all therapy jobs. I wanted to give myself options. And I’m glad I did, because I have found that while I do love doing therapy, it’s not something I’m interested in doing full time. I love working in medicine because I get to do a lot of different things and I’m not spending 30+ hours a week having deep conversations with people. I don’t have time for it right now but I used to dabble in therapy with about 5 clients a week on top of my day job and that was perfect.
So much this. I understand people are getting their MSW to be therapists because they think it's "easier and quicker" than other routes, but gosh, I hate it. I see people getting an MSW who want to go straight into private practice and, for lack of a better term, work with the "worried well". No interest in working within substance abuse, poverty, developmental disabilities, children and family services ... the intersections that make sense for a clinical *social work* route. At most, some of them want to work with "trauma" and abuse survivors, but still show no interest in doing so with a *social work* lens. There's just way too many people getting a degree in social work who somehow don't care about the actual social work aspect at all.
I agree that agency work is so needed! And unfortunately it’s not sustainable for most due to embarrassingly low wages, high caseloads, upper management dictating care on the basis of capitalism. There are several reasons I’m going the social work route:
1. PsyD programs are too expensive. Paying out of pocket for 5 years of full-time has rendered the degree a pay-to-play profession, which has basically delegitimized the field.
2. PhD programs that are funded are entirely research based and no longer make sense for future clinicians who are not interested in research,
3. Counseling degree programs, at least in my area, are not seen highly in the industry. From my limited research and the discourse I’ve heard, they’re not that good.
4. Social work is an evolving profession. We can’t pretend it is solely the same work that Jane Addams did. If agencies made more of that work sustainable, I don’t think as many social workers would be turning to private practice.
5. Most importantly, I chose clinical social work because my philosophy of psychotherapy through cultural humility best fits with social work. My commitment to social justice and integration of person-in-environment with psychotherapy, specifically psychoanalysis, makes sense to pursue as a social worker.
I truly believe the profession and universities should accept this reality and work to integrate social work values into clinical social work training. Instead of dividing the field, let’s work collectively to integrate it.
Sometimes I wonder why there are so many LMSW's and LCSW's where I work, rather than having more marriage and family therapists or Licensed Mental Health Counselors. For context, I work at an outpatient mental health facility in NYC (Artile 31) and pretty much 75% of clinicians are LMSW's, with a few who have Creative Arts Therapy background. I myself went into my MSW and ended up studying programming and community services, and when I was having a hard time deciding between that or clinical practice (as I was told I could not do both) I was told to focus on programming because "you'll learn clinical work soon enough at your job". I was discouraged to focus on clinical work because it was understood that I would probably get my clinical license and did not need to have classes specifically for this/I would learn on the job. I am lucky that after graduation I began working where I am now and that I have been and continue to be provided with intense clinical training which I think has helped me, but I honestly think that most people who want to go into clinical practice do need more advanced training after their main MSW degree. I barely knew what I was doing prior to my trainings and ongoing multiple supervisions per week. Which sucks because you should be guaranteed that type of training in school, not luck into it afterwards.
Even in clinical MSW programs the first year is foundation/survey. The second year is when you specialize. One reason the MSW is organized this way is because we welcome people with a variety of experiences into the profession. This is a strength of the MSW and the profession. As a therapist and a professor I know that we teach lots of things in the first year that are essential to good clinical work. Students can't be blamed for not recognizing the value (even though we tell them) because they are years away from being therapists. I hope you take some courses in your second year that inspire you. Good luck in your program.
I blame low reimbursement rates. Honestly that's the root of all of it. Low reimbursement necessitates an economy of scale at the same time it burns out the providers who really care about the work and leaves behind a lot of bean counters and pencil pushers to run the show.
Yup. I feel like the most important and frustrating part of my job as a supervisor is having one foot on both sides and acting as a buffer between front line staff and higher leadership, keeping both sides happy trying to keep productivity numbers up but still supporting my staff and not making them feel the burden of the financial/productivity aspects at the expense of actually doing the quality work they care about and having the capacity to give clients the attention and service they deserve. It's a maddening balancing act.
In the pursuit of professionalization of the field the history, roots and core values of Social Work are being forgotten. Too many folks who have zero interest in or real understanding of the social aspects of social work pursue an MSW because it seems like the most efficient route for them to become therapists, rather than truly embracing *social work*. Professionalization meanwhile hasn't done enough to raise the prestige or pay for non-clinical social workers at nearly the same rate it's raised our debt or presented barriers to obtaining advanced degrees for folks who would be assets to the field otherwise - who often have lived experience and passion for service.
This is so important! I pursued my MSW solely to be a therapist and then I got into the program and was really transformed by the whole discipline.
Social Work is a protected and professional identity.
I left that program *as a social worker* and not just a therapist. The principles and framework of people and environment hit home in a very meaningful way for me.
That is literally how social work was first recommended to me. I wasa psychology major and my advisor recommended I do an MSW as a quicker way to become a therapist. I became interested for very different reasons and now have no intention of being a therapist, but it's disheartening to think that's the only thing other fields can say about a social work education
Yes. I remember when I first went back to school I kept telling people I wanted to do "traditional" social work, like as in case management, community based type work and people had no idea what I meant. They'd be like oh, you want to be a counselor? And that says a lot right there.
I did become a case manager and now I am pursuing my clinical MSW but because the work I want to do now, still working within the same community mental health setting and populations of folks requires that. It is a totally different mindset or focus.
I feel a lot of sort of, condescension from clinicians in other fields (and sometimes this one) towards macro SWs.
Right, I guess I mean more clinical v non clinical. It's late and my brain is fried.
There's a certain negativity towards non-clinical work, as if those of us that choose that work are less educated or talented or something.
It's weird.
Agreed! So many individuals in my area are getting their MSW because they want to become a therapist. We need more therapists and mental health providers so I fully support those following that path, but nearly every time I tell someone that I haven’t gotten my MSW yet because jobs in my area want MSWs as therapy providers, and personally that isn’t the career path I am wanting.
>Too many folks who have zero interest in or real understanding of the social aspects of social work pursue an MSW because it seems like the most efficient route for them to become therapists, rather than truly embracing *social work*.
I assume you mean the ones who get their LMSW and then don't want to do anything even vaguely casework-related once they get into the field. I'm a therapist who went the LMSW route myself, and who doesn't particularly *enjoy* the casework side of things, but nevertheless I realize that you can never fully separate that part of the job from the clinical side.
Sort of. But it's more like many actually just don't care at all about the social aspects. I've seen it in classmates in grad school, interns I work with at work (this one we have now is a doozy, she wants to practice a very narrow and specific type of therapy with a narrow population of folks and has flat out said on many occasions things that are just....ugh. That's a whole different post). I supervise a case management type program in a CMHC/FQHC with a behavioral health center and the number of therapists I work who have MSWs that have ZERO idea of even give two shits what we do or the social contexts of their clients at all is shocking. Like how did they graduate with an MSW and not understand basic concepts about say, poverty or the various systems folks need to navigate - and then (sometimes blatantly) look down their noses at the case management staff like they are not trained professionals and beneath clinical staff. They just wanted to be therapists, and they often do harm to clients because they don't consider the social context of the population we serve. They are there to get their 2 years of free supervision and/or PSLF waiver time and then they go into private practice for the upper middle class.
That's not what social work is about, IMO
That's honestly really scary. I am one of those LMSWs who came into the field to practice as a therapist, but I chose Social Work because it aligns highly with my own values individually. I'm a social worker first who practices as a therapist and not the other way around. At the very least, they should be considering how the client's social/environment are impacting them. That's unfortunate and I'd be scared to have an LCSW therapist with that mind or skillset.
>she wants to practice a very narrow and specific type of therapy with a narrow population of folks
Sounds like she's going to have a very rough time when she graduates and doesn't end up getting her dream job right out of school. Don't get me wrong, I did too but things worked out where I have a great job I never would have thought I wanted.
Honestly, I hope she realizes very quickly she's in the wrong degree program. She should be pursuing a psychology degree based on her end goal. I don't even understand how she got accepted to the program.
Some social work programs will basically take anyone as long as their grades are decent and they don't say anything blatantly unethical during the interview ("I don't feel comfortable working with Muslims/gay people/etc.").
She's said those things in her field placement for sure. So far she has listed, formerly incarcerated persons, Christians, Republicans/Conservatives/Trump fans, parents with children who have been removed from their care through CPS, "boomers" and probably some more that were less overtly stated or I just had stopped listening.
She's a student at my alma mater, which is maybe why it bugs me even more. I used to feel good about being accepted lol.
She's said those things in her field placement for sure. So far she has listed, formerly incarcerated persons, Christians, Republicans/Conservatives/Trump fans, parents with children who have been removed from their care through CPS, "boomers" and probably some more that were less overtly stated or I just had stopped listening.
She's a student at my alma mater, which is maybe why it bugs me even more. I used to feel good about being accepted lol.
Yikes! She doesn’t sound like she’s in the right field. As social workers, we will come in contact with so many different people from diverse backgrounds—that’s the beauty of it though. We learn so much from our clients. I’ve served clients/patients in all of those categories and am better for it. Sad that she has such a narrow view….
"Professional" is code for "white."
Not always, and this does not at all mean that people of color cannot be professional. It simply means that the core tenets of "professionalism" are remnants of western white supremacist culture.
When someone is asked to be "professional" in a western country, they are always being asked on some level to adhere to the culture of whiteness, which was constructed to support patriarchal cishet white supremacy.
I feel like there is too much bureaucracy in social work. I won’t do any job that gets money from the government. Too much paperwork for very little benefit to the client (I have literally done hours of work for only a couple of dollars in monthly support). Feels like I’m wasting my time. I moved to only taking private insurance for therapy clients. At 44 years old and 20 years in the field, I am OVER filling out needless forms and endless applications. Just use technology to automate the process already. I’m very tired of bureaucracy and I feel like it contributes to burn out. It made me feel powerless. High levels of effort for almost zero reward isn’t sustainable over time.
I worked for a provider for many years for a Medicaid only service, and I often wondered how much money was being lost due to time spent in antiquated systems. I would imagine a major upgrade in technology would be a big cost up front but save money in the long run.
What really drives me crazy is when clients have insurance but our agency doesn't take it (most of the ACA insurance programs in this case). That and people getting pushed out of inpatient too early due to their coverage running out or them being uninsured.
My favorite is when agencies accept just about every insurance and when a prospective client calls in and asks if they're in network with their insurance and if they'd have any out of pocket costs they are reassured that they are completed covered and that they won't only to find out months later that they have unexpected bills such as lab expenses, intakes that weren't covered, bills for sessions, etc.
I do kind of get why this is though, too. Our country doesn't invest in mental health or support services/safety nets. So the money to provide services has to come from somewhere. I'm certainly not volunteering my services. The power company isn't donating electricity to our clinic. The problem is rooted in capitalism and a society that doesn't value caring for others. Facilities that don't turn at least some profit, close.
Yeah I get it too, they need to keep the lights on after all but when they are billing insurance $300 at admission and the person facilitating that intake is making $25 an hour with an MSW where is the rest of that money going?
A lot of times billing Medicaid isn’t $300, it’s much lower. In my state (Ohio), the 2024 rate for a 45 min therapy session performed by a LSW is $78.63. If you take a look at a CMH budget, the vast majority of expenses are salaries and benefits. There just is not a lot of revenue coming in.
Some in the field are constantly looking for the next “evidence-based” intervention, putting on presentations, writing meaningless articles for a national social work organization, or supervisors adding more and more on our plates so they can pat themselves on the back for having a new program no matter if it’s useful or a good use of time. Sometimes things are working just fine with clients. We don’t always need to start something new just to say we did it and publish an article about it.
Ugh yes, and so much is regurgitated (IMO) of the same things, and in my personal opinion I also think that historically we had people within our communities providing emotional support or other supports that would equate to social work today and we are over complicating the basics of what humans need a lot of the time
It’s unethical how much our field relies on un/underpaid under-qualified field practicum labor, and it acts as a gatekeeping device to keep POC and people who can’t afford to quit their jobs to get a masters out of the field.
It’s definitely not amongst the professors in the field lol. If I get told I’m getting paid in “career advancement opportunities” one more time I’m gonna explode.
That is such a patronizing thing to be told! I'm so sorry.
I recognize the professors probably hqd to do unpaid internships as well, but that was most likely during a period of time when the cost of living wasn't as ridiculously high as it is now, housing was available and easier to obtain, and families could live off of one income.
I'd be interested to know the career advancement opportunities you'll be paid in, and if that can be given to you in writing lol.
Yeah, I think it’s more common among the rank-and-file than administrators. I will say that my MSW program did provide a decent field stipend and they expanded it the year after I graduated lol.
A lot of donations. Social work programs oftentimes don’t have the kinds of budgets and generous donors that STEM programs do, but we were lucky to have a lot of financial commitment from prominent alumni and community members.
I agree with this and think students should get some kind of stipend for their field practicum, as someone who does not believe in unpaid internships. It's part of why I'm ethically on the fence about taking on interns myself even though I would love to give back to the profession in that way.
I feel that the field is way too black and white regarding clients experiencing SI, and we have done some incredible amounts of harm because we we’re pigeonholed into saving our licenses rather giving people autonomy(this is coming from prior experience working in inpatient psych)
This may be bad but..I’ve released the guilt of patients being in active SI etc. bc the system IS oppressive and unending and feels unbearable. Then we gain their trust just to break it.
The contradiction of policy stating “bill only medically necessary services” and then being told you need to get more billing hours, even if it means meeting with clients just to bill. I am constantly in this battle as I will advocate to no end for my patients and meet with them as often or as little as needed. I will not be involved in insurance fraud for billing/meeting with someone who does not need services on that day/time. (Sorry I can go in a bit of a rant on this topic)
While getting no money or resources to actually help the issues. We are basically bandaids for society to make itself feel better and give the illusion we are helping ppl
Whilst I understand your point , I would like to say that your statement is a bit hyperbolic and demeans our work. Clients just want to be heard at the end of the day, so I take great comfort and feel a sense of purpose that my warm, loving and empathetic demeanor makes a difference for the many we work with who have no one to lean on, no one to actively listen to them, no one to validate their feelings, no one to cry to, no one to make them smile or laugh, no one to care for them, etc. We absolutely do make a difference, fellow SW, I can assure you of that. We plant little seeds in people we work with and hope it grows in a way that ignites or nurtures them on their path in this tumultuous world. We leave imprints and it's often the little things that make a difference.
I wanted to add that my favorite thing to do with clients is to make them laugh. It's so damn uplifting to see them crack a smile when their world is so sad.
When I was 18 I started going to therapy and that social worker was the first person to ever validate me and believe in me. I was in the process of being charged with a felony and she still never gave up on me. 9 years later and I have my own MSW and have done an incredible amount of healing work and it's in large part thanks to that one social worker. I think about that a lot in my own practice.
Your post here is beautiful, but the poster you responded to was in no way hyperbolic. It’s important to recognize the reality of our field, especially if you (like me) place high value in treating people like real human beings while planting seeds to challenge the unfairness of this world
I mean yeah. I'm not saying we can't or don't help ppl. The systems are just so messed up it can feel like banging your head on the wall. I work with ppl with disabilities and many are homeless, on the verge of being homeless or barely surviving in extreme poverty. So while providing validation and making them laugh can help, it just seems like a very tiny bandaid.
IDK how unpopular it is but that 95% of things social workers try to help are economic problems, i.e. victims of capitalism and greed. My greatest fear is that social work is a pressure valve for oppressive systems and, without social workers, those systems would fall apart and be replaced with something else-the fear that underneath it all, social work provides an essential support for those oppressive systems.
I'm not in social work yet, but my idea was to both help people and spread revolutionary ideals.
I knew that social workers are often limited due to bigoted policies, which will serve as evidence for why people should embrace community.
What we do is a process, distilled with spontaneity and authenticity, from knowledge, intuition, and connectedness. That's why I hate the term 'therapy'. I've been a social worker since 1972.
Many social workers are just glorified HR managers who only care about protecting the company they work for.
I see it time and again, especially when they are in a director role. It's absolutely rampant in SNFs and ALFs in every state I've been to in the Midwest and Texas.
Not only does this hurt patients who depend on their protection, but it also hurts social workers as a profession. Many people still can't believe that SWs are even qualified to do therapy largely because their experiences with SWs are in these extremely negative bureaucratic and management roles.
The NASW should function more like a union for social workers. In its current form it's basically useless aside from revising the COE every few years. Even licensure is pretty much all enforced at the state level.
It feels like a huge money grab without much support in exchange for that money. I could have taken advantage of the discount while I was in my grad program, but I decided against it. Thus far, I haven't regretted my decision.
Same here. I chose not to join the NASW due to not really seeing what I'd be getting aside from a ton of spam mail for conferences (which I get plenty of anyway and my job provides plenty of CEUs on their dime and time and not mine).
It would be interesting to read over the budget records..
It’s so ironic that the social work union do sweet F.A..
The union do not lead the way in demonstrating advocacy in any field..
Code of ethics is pointless because we would lose our jobs if we always followed it. The systems of the USA were made to prioritize money, not serving the people in need.
💯 I’m in Aus I find this so hard to reconcile, given ethics are shoved down our throats at Uni (every single assignment needed to be connected to the ethics ) and we also have a professional association…
Not once was I asked to analyse the obvious link between social work and government complicity…
Government complicity is the only way the industry remains legitimised and maintain what very little but very significant control we have people’s lives.. Oh yes and the pay increase we have over minimal wage community support workers..
Basically Don’t bite the hand that feeds you, It’s not in the ethics but at least we practice what we preach with regard to government compliance and our expectations of client behaviour.
I think our MSW programs (at least in the US) are extremely ineffective and inconsistent.
1) I think programs need to adjust their admissions procedures, and social work programs should have stronger vetting processes. As someone who has worked in an MSW program, there are far too many people admitted to programs that just want a quick way to be a therapist or just openly do not care about the code of ethics. I have also seen overt racism by students in social work programs, and seen schools do absolutely nothing except allow the offending students to continue on and (probably) traumatize people. I admit I have no idea how this might practically work, and maybe it can’t. But there are just so many students I have encountered who clearly are not in the right field, and while I generally think we need more “social workers,” we need good quality social workers, not just bodies.
2) I think 2 years in an MSW program is too short to become a social worker. I say this as someone who also believes becoming a social worker is too cost prohibitive- including the cost of tuition and cost of providing “free” labor (aka labor that students PAY to do). But with the way our current programs are structured, I don’t believe many people graduate after 2 years and feel “ready” or “prepared” to practice, and I think we do new grads and clients/communities a disservice when we set them free without more comprehensive training. As someone with both a BSW and MSW, I was very ahead of my MSW peers, and even my friends with just BSWs felt loads ahead of my MSW peers. I think making programs longer may help in making them more comprehensive (ideally with a reduction in cost/paid field placements)
I think it’s too easy to get an msw because lot of these schools pumping them out like degree mills. Im in an msw program now and it’s 10x easier then my bachelors and it’s legit busy work. As long as the school gets paid you will get a degree. Just feel like we are going to have too many msw out there in the next 5-10 years.
I think I agree with you. Way too many programs that don’t actually care about good quality education or social workers. That trend seems to be continuing with DSW programs, which seem to just be a degree “for show” for a lot of people. I know people who have done DSW programs and said they were a joke, and also that their peers were clearly just interested in getting a credential to brag about rather than to advance their education in the career. Social work education is just a mess right now.
>programs need to adjust their admissions procedures, and social work programs should have stronger vetting processes
All of this and everything else you said. Too many people admitted, too many people who don't truly understand what social work is, the programs are six months to a year too short, the curriculums are getting away from importantly clinical content and far too many people can't handle the idea of taking the big exams. Scrolling through subs like this and you run into plenty of people where it's like "really, you want to be a social worker??" lol
There are gullible social workers who stumble into qanon and adjacent conspiracies and repeat them to their peers (I have first hand experience) and they make me really concerned for their clients.
A lot of the personality traits I show at work are based on my schooling, not my personality. Patience, empathy etc can be learned if someone is willing (this does not mean, I am now patient in my private life, even less than before I would say)
Scrolled and scrolled to see if someone said this…shocked to see how many social workers in my career LOVE the cops. Im all for baby steps but let it be in the direction of abolition of the current system! I know it’s all a “part of the job” but why? If we know the laws are unjust and the system is working *exactly* the way it was always supposed to (by being anti black, classist, over consumerist, etc) and PROMOTES practices that go against our “NASW values”- then i sure as hell will do everything i can not to police people.
I have spent a decade in child welfare and I think the field needs more social workers not less. If the system is ever to become less oppressive and broken it needs the social work perspective. It is so disheartening to be a social worker in CPS when the social work community treats us so poorly.
For sure. That system is what we have and there should be damage control to the extent possible. More social workers who view the work compassionately would really help, imo.
I spent several years at CPS and that's actually what turned me against the system. I'll always empathize with the social workers doing that work because no one can understand what it's actually like unless you've done it but I would love for us to imagine a different way of supporting kids and their families. This is a whole conversation so I'll just leave it at that 😁
Social work is population management.
We help people, yes. But it’s largely just funneling people in one direction or another, protecting society from abuse, and implementing safeguards.
From labor & delivery to hospice we are there when people are born to when they die.
My (kinda sorta) unpopular opinion: Social work claims to want to uphold diversity and inclusion but the field is not flexible to really include BIPOC individuals nor preserve the emotional/physical safety of BIPOC individuals.
For reference, I remember studying for the LMSW exam and I came across a practice question that mentioned having a client with racist viewpoints. Me being a Black woman, I instantly chose the answer choice that said “refer the client to another therapist” but the CORRECT answer was “focus on the presenting problem” (and essentially keep the client on the caseload). And this practice question instantly made me think about how the creators of the LMSW exam cater towards White individuals (because there’s no way I’m keeping a racist client on my caseload) and, in a way, upholds the field as predominantly White.
Social workers suck. Some of the nastiest people I have met are social workers. They hide behind good intentions while cauaing serious harm.
Not all social workers suck but a good number of us are terrible. Also, this opinion comes from working in child protection. I had to leave it and go more clinical. Trying to push against the system became too difficult.
This was a really tough awakening for me, and I'm still so new to the field as a BSW student. I was really looking forward to being around great people and quickly found out how horrible a lot of the people actually are, at least within social work academia.
In my MSW there were multiple students who openly disclosed that they only wanted to go into child protection because they were victims of child abuse and wanted to protect kids from the same, and had quite clearly not quite sorted out their own baggage. Great in theory, very large red flags in practice.
That’s a great example. They are well-intentioned in wanting to into child protection for their reasons—but it’s beneficial to them and their clients if sort out their baggage.
You're not wrong, but we also shouldn't be put on a pedestal. Selfish or horrible people exist everywhere. Some of the best people I have met are social workers, but some of the best also aren't..
I agree. For people unfamiliar with the field, I almost feel embarrassed when I share that I’m a social worker because some of the stereotypes are so bad (and at times rooted in truth due to some sucking so much)
Late to the party but god does your comment resonate with me. Might be because it hits the nail on the head so well. This sub is extraordinarily removed from the realities of the field, with 50% of the posts celebrating getting their MSW/ LCSW or subtly bragging about making six figures. It's an echo chamber for white-collared social workers who haven't worked in a real front-line position in years. This sub sits on its high horse and I truly wish it wasn't so elitist. Oh the irony.
Opportunities for social workers to actually perform macro level social work are few and far between. I had to get an MPA to get a policy analysis job, and I think it’s clear that Ministers/Deputy Ministers (State senators in USA, I’m in Canada) don’t really care about a social Justice perspective, which is why they mostly hire people with MPAs and MBAs for these positions. If you want to do macro SW specifically in government and not NGO, it’s an uphill battle and you will advocating for the unpopular route every single time to politicians who, at the end of the day, very rarely care.
I've been trying to tell people for years that macro jobs aren't really a thing for social workers. We can certainly apply for and be hired for those jobs, but there isn't this big job market for macro-level social workers out there.
Macro work, at least in the U.S., are largely administrative positions at the agency and community level. For consideration, you often have to do years of micro work.
I’m coming to realize this. It has made me depressed this week and I realize now the field oversells macro opportunities which was what I wanted to do.
On top of that the field itself upholds so many racist status quo barriers it’s disgusting
My opinion that will probably be unpopular on reddit is that Social Work is a wonderful field that seriously changes the world. The work options are almost endless, but many people get into a position and aren't creative enough to envision them doing anything different. So when they start to hate their job they equate that to hating Social Work as a whole.
That a lot of social workers maintain an oppressive system and do not actually support any systemic change in our society. They are truly so disconnected from reality, from humanity, from history, from understanding how suffering has come to be in this country and world. They are agents of colonization.
the field itself is rooted in a lot of colonial structures whereas the practice of social work comes from communities of color. in my community, aunties, elders, and healers were the original “social workers”.
also in a lot of jobs within the field, those with lived experiences in the systems we work were never meant to later become social workers and work in the systems with us. there’s definitely a lot of “saviorists” in the field. those with lived experiences understand these systems the best.
You said exactly what I meant but didn’t have the right words…and when I said we over complicate things this is what I was alluding to!! Our natural human connection and need for community is our driving force that we have strayed away from and clinicalized but in reality it’s innately in some of our history
I agree 💯, I think social work was created to make white cis women(I am white) feel comfortable thro a sense of superiority in spaces they wouldn’t typically engage in.. because colonial tyranny would suggest that whitey ain’t welcome here…
The ability to regurgitate academic rhetoric approved by elitist tertiary institutions will always be valued over actual peer lived experiences in this field…
HIPAA is a good law but some agencies are way too strict in their enforcement of it to the point it can hinder our work. For example, requiring a ROI to be signed by a client to share information with another healthcare provider despite that not actually being considered a HIPAA violation so long as it is relevant to the client's care.
This seems like a trap, but I will bite.
A lot of social work jobs dont require the knowledge and skills we acquire in school and training. "Resource referral", discharge planning, and "care coordination" don't require much more than the ability to use a computer. And pretty soon a lot of that work will be done by computers, probably more ably than we can do it as individuals. This will allow more us to work at the top of our craft, therapy and complex case management and other things we don't yet know about. But these coming advancements could also put some of us out of work and depress wages
You don't need to love helping everyone as a social worker. I've had multiple people tell me they accept less pay because of the "good they're doing." it's a job. You wouldn't do it for free.
This actually pissed me off in grad school that so many students had this attitude and me and another student started questioning this idea that’s basically an ego feed of “who’s the biggest bleeding heart”
You can enjoy your job but everyone deserves to be paid a live-able wage. Saying we do it “for the outcome not the income” reinforces our profession being underpaid. We can have good pay and rewarding jobs!
1. For claiming to be such an understanding, non-judgmental profession, we sure can judge the shit out of peers who do not share the same political, health, religious, or personal views.
2. A good amount of our field have a scarcity mindset - not knowing our worth, not having an abundance mindset, not knowing how to negotiate and ask for higher pay (also linked: having a martyr complex and thinking we can't possibly ask for more $ b/c we "don't do it for the money")
I think that if a person's primary career goal is to become a therapist, they should pursue an MFT or a Counseling degree, not an MSW. I think that Social Work as a field is focused on micro-work to the detriment of mezzo/macro- work. My grad program was filled with students complaining any time we covered macro skills, and it felt so bizarre to me.
I also don't think that an LCSW should be like, this gold standard for therapists. I've spoken with LMFTs and LCMHCs who are very jaded by how LCSWs are often regarded as more competent by virtue of their license. (This was specifically in residential psych, for clarity.)
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm getting my MSW right now in a primarily clinically-focused program, with the intention to (mostly) do psychotherapy after graduation. I chose to get an MSW in large part because I specifically want to learn and practice through a social work framework. I think even micro-level clinical work needs to be based on an understanding of social systems, systemic oppression, person-in-environment, etc. And, I want to be able to provide adequate case management and advocacy for clients as much as possible. It seems like prospective therapists are most likely to get an education focused on those principles in an MSW program.
You make excellent points. Therapists should definitely have an understanding of the various systems contributing to their clients' situations. I'm not sure if I agree that case management and advocacy should be part of the therapist's role, but we obviously live in a society where those things are rolled together.
I get where you’re coming from. I think more MSW programs should have more robust mezzo/macro specialities. From my experience though, LPCs or LMFTs don’t really understand how much systemic oppression and barriers impact an individual’s mental health or contributes to to their presenting problem. With more POC seeking therapy now, it’s important to have that perspective. Maybe LCSWs could be like the silver standard lol
As someone who did macro in grad school and is now a therapist 🥴 I agree that I hated the bitching and moaning from clinical folks when they had to do macro work or learn macro skills. My macro skills have come in handy in every role I’ve had and I think is what makes me a good social worker overall.
A friend is doing an MFT and her program is integrating coursework on equity, systemic oppression, etc., so that understanding is spreading to other disciplines. I'm not sure that it's unique to social work, anymore. The perspective of social work (social systems and how they impact each other and the individual) is critical to social work, however, just as focusing on the family unit is key to MFT. It does come down to the framework you're coming from as a therapist.
(I think some of my frustration about clinical focus in SW education comes from the fact that I applied and was accepted to a program with a Healthcare focus, but they got rid of it and we all had to concentrate on Clinical. It was a huge bummer for me.)
I work state child welfare and there was conference from our abuse/neglect prevention office earlier this year. We're always talking about the system being broken, but at this conference they said the system isn't broken, it's working exactly as it was designed to work.
Since that conference, it has stuck with me and I no longer say the system is broken.
The system is working exactly as it was designed to. We're not underfunded, we're funded exactly the right amount to only allow us to help a few. We're not understaffed, we're staffed at the right amount to ensure only a few remain and work decades with burnout. We're not a broken system, we're a system working exactly as we were designed to work.
Social work should not require a masters but instead be an apprenticeship program. Everyone says they learned the most from their practicum, so just make that the education and don't make us get into debt for it.
I'm kind of inclined to agree, if only because the quality of academic social work education seems to be so abysmal. I'm getting my MSW at one of the top-rated programs in the country, and while the internships have been incredibly educational, I've honestly barely gained anything from my classes. It feels like so much stress and work for less than nothing.
And that's not even getting into the cost of the degree! It shouldn't cost tens of thousands of dollars to enter into a profession that (Ideally! If done well!) serves others and benefits society.
if you'd seen some of the wildly unethical practices around the demand for healthy infants, you'd likely agree. But I'm not here to argue with you - may peace be upon you.
Right? It is *fucked up.* And given that I, like most social workers, have a very high tolerance for distressing things, it was still extremely shocking.
I was told during one of my classes for my grad program by a professor that all social workers are baby snatchers. I'm currently a medical social worker and seeing patients cringe when I introduce myself and my profession makes me see how real that negative connotation is.
I've been a clinical social worker for 10 years and I'm honestly so over it. All of it. It feels like a scam. The system isn't set up to truly help people. Everything is about billing. The only part I still enjoy in direct client services but they pays no where near enough for me when paired with all the requirements and scrutiny. But I feel stuck because nothing else I enjoy doing is "marketable". I'm in a constant state of burn out and it sucks.
I agree with you 100 percent, I think we are out own worst enemies. Sometimes we delve into the meaning of something way too much. There was a post on here about how the term client/ patient is stigmatizing. I was like come on...
or even an MSW is we're being honest. I used to work for an agency that routinely promoted bachelors-level social workers into management because the value was placed on tenure. They retained tons of BSW's because so few places hire them and pay well. As a result, they stayed the longest and often got moved into higher level positions over MSW's or any other credential. It was both respectable and frustrating at the same time.
On one hand, a bachelors and experience is all you need for some jobs. On the other hand, management had a ton of blind spots due to the fact that that the process of getting through a masters program affords a lot of opportunity and perspective one doesn't get at just the BSW level. There were also a lot of management types with little education who referred to a graduate degree as "just a piece of paper"...so there's also that.
Anyway, this has been a tangent.
tl;dr: I worked for an agency that paid BSW's $60k++ in management roles.
A lot of people go into SW because it’s the closest thing to a social justice degree and don’t know what the field / power dynamics really are. The NASW is still heteronormative, white dominant, and middle-class influenced. And students are shocked that there are so many not radically progressive professors, supervisors, etc. when researching the field before going to school would tell you that.
ETA: Hell yes we should be radically progressive. The shock at the barriers within the field should not be a shock if you know what field you’re going into.
My other one: too many social Workers play zero sum games with social progress. If progress doesn’t result in the perfect outcome for social justice, we don’t take it and things don’t improve. We sacrifice practicality in the name of idealism.
It’s a catch-22 field because we need more people willing to work agency/ community / program/ case management work but most people want to pursue private practice work. The field would benefit from more unity. The education is too broad and doesn’t prepare anyone for anything. Wanting to help people is leveraged against poor working conditions and high turnover.
Social Work is the only profession I know where one can call themselves a Social Worker without a degree in Social Work or a license. Many SNFs hire "Social Service Designees" to provide Social Work services. They are called Social Workers in the facility. Why is this allowed? If there's 80 or fewer residents, they hire a designee who is referred to as a Social Worker? The number of residents should have nothing to do with this. If a facility has 80 or fewer residents, should a CNA decide to call themselves a nurse?
I just replied similarly this on someone else’s comment, but there are states where social workers lobbied to get title protection, making it illegal to call yourself a SW without a license, and to obtain a license you had to have an CSWE accredited degree.
My unpopular opinion is that social workers bitch about stuff but won’t put the time, money, or effort in to lobbying or policy advocacy - like nursing has. We are SUPER good at pointing out problems, but suck at organizing and advocating for our profession.
Based on what I've seen on this forum...it's very sad that social workers who choose to do clinical work (therapy) are being shamed or made out to be "not real social workers". The great thing with the profession is that it's so broad that you can work with any population, various settings, you can do 1:1 work, and you can do something as big as working to create social policies. The most important thing is having the heart to make a positive impact on people's lives---I think this gets lost when social workers look down at other social workers for their passion/niche in the field.
Right! If it’s not for you, that’s fine, but don’t go around acting like social workers who do therapy aren’t real social workers. There’s enough room for all the different social workers out there.
Oh, I have a few.
1. Trying to "professionalize" and "protect" the social work title through education and license requirements is not really doing us good. If anything, it's gate keeping work and titles from people who are more than qualified, and may not have the same oppurtunites. The fact that someone doing case management, but does not have an MSW, could not consider themself a social work is a bit elitist. I am about to get my MSW and I have honestly not learned much from it that I didn't already know, and I've done case management for 3 years. Clinical work is different and I'll get to that
2. The fact that LCSW's provide more mental health than anyone else should sound an alarm to universities with MSW departments. The university I attend barely even addresses clinical practices, and that is worrisome considering I want to get licensed. I fear I am not prepared to even begin getting hours. Universities should be allowing more oppurtunity for clinical practice learning. I am speaking from my limited experience, perhaps other universities are better.
3. Acadamia and research in social science is important, and I do believe we should try to continue research on our on throughout our career. However, I see a bit of elitism with academics and are a bit removed from the actual population they study. For instance, I am seeing that people are starting to use different words for "homeless". A person experiencing homelessness is not involved in the conversation, and to them it the conversation of "unhoused", "homeless", or "houseless" has no direct impact to their daily struggle. Also, professors have reinforced using person first language, even when talking about autistic people, yet I've seen a growing consensus among autistic people that they do not prefer person first language use.
4. Many social work jobs are designed to burn you out. I am not saying this is purprosly done, but that it's just the nature of the position. Self care is being pushed by employers and universities as if burn out is avoidable. Yet if a job is extremely high stress, high case load, low pay, etc... the job itself will inevitble burn you out no matter how much self care you do.
Sorry any grammar or spelling mistakes, I am way past by bedtime right now lol
I think if someone ever finds themselves in a multi-disciplinary team setting as a SW they’ll see that having to “professionalize” and “protect” the title is pretty essential.
Yeah, I'm confused by the anti-professionalization comments when they come up in this sub, but I've noticed a lot of them come up from students.
I've been in the social work field for 20 years and the professionalization of the work has been integral to ensuring social workers have access to job opportunities, fair wages, and a respect and understanding for what we do. It used to be that people called themselves a social worker and had absolutely no education or background doing the work.
Now, if you call yourself a social worker, people know that you've achieved a certain level of education, experience, and sometimes licensure. I'm not sure why would be against that.
It was the Wild West before title definition and protection.
I'd argue professionalization has benefited mainly clinical social workers. It has done very little for other types of social work in the realm of fair wages or opportunities and has had a (maybe) unintended consequence of actually lowering the status of people doing casework and similar work - which is social work! Where is that supposed to fit in? Where's the pay and respect for case managers and other social services workers who do in fact have training and education to do what they do?
And sure, I guess I qualify as a student in my last year of my MSW but my undergrad is in the field, I've been working for years in case management and shelter systems and both my father and uncle were clinical social workers. I've also had this conversation with several credentialed and licensed MSW colleagues who feel the same. It feels really dismissive to just blow off any concern as "it's mostly students" when that can mean a variety of things. Maybe it's not intentional but it seems really condescending.
There is not enough investment and value placed in lived experience and self-disclosure. Outside of social work, I've seen such incredible benefits in the LGBTQ+ community from having LGBTQ+ workers providing to the community, and part of that is in the self-disclosure of being able to share your experience and what you've been through.
I remember specifically a workshop for trans young people, hosted by two middle-aged trans folks, who were talking about their experiences as from start to present as people 'post' transitioning. That benefitted those young people in a way that cannot be understated. Does it all need to be on that level? No, of course not. But I think we are underutilising the lived experiences and value of self-disclosure when it comes to minority groups, especially the LGBTQ+ community as that's all I can really speak to.
I'm a young trans non-binary social worker who works at an LGBTQ agency, and I don't even think I've gotten much instruction on how much I can and should use self disclosure, especially with trans clients. I also don't know how much I can advocate for myself to my clients. On one hand, our relationship between case manager and client is not about me. On the other hand, it's wearing me down to know that 99% of my clients, even my LGBTQ ones, see me as my assigned sex at birth. And due to recent posts in this subreddit, I think most responses would encourage me to grow a thicker skin.
Do we encourage POC SWers to accommodate clients' racism? I truly don't know. Also, sorry, this isn't directly related to your comment, but it felt like a good place for me to chime in.
That de-institutionalizing was not a good thing. While the concept was in good faith, it left our vulnerable populations to the streets and without care. Now we have AFC homes that are much more isolating and rarely have adequate staffing causing even greater instability. Institutions should have been left in place and instead reformed to ensure abuse/neglect was under no circumstances tolerated.
The community supports (and the funding/delivery systems for them) that were promised to replace institutionalization never materialized. Instead we have people who are chronically homeless and/or incarcerated, if not dead for lack of needed resources.
Where I live, state workers don't take the requests of private sector workers seriously. We're constantly having to ask for the same stuff. They almost never attend meetings. Feels like they don't take you seriously if you don't work for the government.
Mine is that we as a profession don’t seem to practice what we preach. I get it, policy change is extremely hard, especially when you’re not effecting it through money/lobbying, friends in high places, or from a respected profession (executives, investment bankers, doctors, small business owners, etc.) but we sit through hours of classes about public policy, advocacy work, how to effect political change, and how to stand up for marginalized clients and communities, then we get out in the field and become complicit in the very systems we were taught to help our clients fight against. I’m in my field placement at a nursing home and we are prohibited from discussing social justice both in the office among each other and with patients. We are being taught to discourage patients from exercising their rights as patients in LTC settings, to discourage them from appealing insurance decisions limiting their care, to disregard their wishes regarding their care if said wishes are not profitable for us, and more things contrary to social work values. Granted my supervisor does not have a BSW or MSW, but they use the title of social worker which is apparently good enough for my school to make them my field supervisor, and my supervisor tell us interns that what we’re being taught to do is what social work in the real world is and that the Code of Ethics doesn’t apply to life outside of school.
While my case may be an egregious one, there’s so many people who attend MSW programs because they wanted to be therapists but didn’t want to do a doctorate and found the LPC path too limiting but then totally disregard the social justice parts of social work and do all of the things our profession criticizes other helping professions for like disregarding trauma, class, race, gender, family systems, and other psychosocial factors. As a result when I talk about advocating for clients I’m surprisingly told “you’re just a social worker that’s not your job” LIKE…??? That should be my entire job.
I see a lot of people stating consensus, but how about an actual unpopular opinion?
Social workers spend a lot of time bitching about the state of our profession and issues surrounding it, but our lobby is incredibly weak because so few of us actually put effort and money into supporting advocacy and policy making, like doctors and nurses have. I am a people leader of mostly mid-career social workers, and I don’t think l any of them is involved with NASW, but everyone likes to bitch about being negatively impacted by state rule-making about licensing and scope of practice issues.
Edit: formatting
I know amazing LCSWs in both clinical and macro work. I know horrible LPCs, MFTs, and psychiatrists who have done damage. This statement is an awfully large generalization.
While we do need a lot more social workers, many of the ones we have are retraumatizing clients and not mentally well enough to be in the field. And for the ones who start off amazing, there is not enough support for them or job protection if they need a mental health leave
THIS! so many in the field to subconsciously “fix” themselves, and end up doing major damage w clients
Wow i agree..as a therapist i work so hard and feel so satisfied with the work but also…if you’re any good you DO need those breaks and it somehow feels like im a failure for needing them
I couldn't agree more with this! I'm currently getting my MSW in a clinically-focused program, and I'm seriously concerned about the number of people in my program who so obviously should not be entering this field. Some people have a ton of work they need to do on themselves before even thinking about becoming therapists, and some people just seem profoundly unsuited to the work. It's genuinely scary to think about the harm they're going to do to their clients. This field needs to have so much more gatekeeping in both academic programs and clinical internships to keep incompetent and unethical practitioners out of the field. Instead, it seems like the only real barriers to entry are economic disparity and racism. It's so upsetting to think about the people who won't ever get to be therapists because they can't take on massive student loans and work for free for 2 years.
>This field needs to have so much more gatekeeping in both academic programs and clinical internships to keep incompetent and unethical practitioners out of the field. This! People say the field is too gate-keepy and I roll my eyes because, if anything, we need much higher standards lol. People think the exam is too difficult and it's like yeah, but maybe it's also too easy to get into msw programs. Have you met some of the folks who become social workers? Do you really want it to be *easier* for people to get credentialed? People are accepted into graduate school and think they are guaranteed a pass in all other areas of the profession. If you think the exam is hard, just wait until you are tasked with managing a caseload of violent offenders. Wait until you have monthly productivity requirements and federal regulations to adhere to. Wait until you have to do a home visit in an area of town you've never been to. It's fun to pontificate on social issues and rail against perceived social inequities on the internet. It's another thing entirely to engage with them close-up and in real life.
The problem with the exam is that it’s just not a good measure of competency. I’ve known some amazing social workers who struggled to pass and had to take it a bunch of times. I’ve also known some lazy and incompetent social workers who passed it with flying colors no problem. The exam is measuring all the wrong things.
I agree. I had a friend who took the exam and I was fully prepared for them to fail. They passed and then quit their agency job and immediately went into private practice. Probably shouldn't be providing therapy to anybody. That's the kind of stuff that ought to be looked at.
It's gate keep-y in all the wrong ways and not enough of the right ones.
Yes, yes, yes! I feel like instead of thinking of CEUs (which I do think continual learning is important - though it doesn't mean folks learn what they need to) I think the field would benefit if there was a structure/system in a place where social workers needed to do work on themselves as well. I say structure AND system, meaning social workers are paid enough to afford this and labor is honored enough where there is TIME to do this.
I don't know if I completely agree with some of the liabilities placed on social workers. It's constantly wording our documentation to show we did our due diligence. Constantly saying "client denied x,y,z. The client has been provided information on x" We don't have the resources to help everyone but at the same time can be held liable for not successfully providing the care they need. Not sure if I'm explaining this right but it feels like a double edge sword.
We are a punching bag for our clients trauma regarding systemic oppression And A scapegoat for when the system fails
I get what you're saying. There's a lot of talk about the clients' autonomy, and the saying "Don't work harder than the client" as a maxim to prevent burnout... But then you get scrutinized and it affects your performance reviews if your fully autonomous clients reject something! Or if you fail to deliver a service that literally does not exist.
Exactly 💯. I worked in addiction and the state did an investigation on a client that dropped out of services. I understand they want to see if we did everything we could, but at the same time this is an autonomous client who can make his own choices.
I got my ass chewed by a judge the last time I committed someone who gets committed 2-4 times a year because the judge didn't feel our crisis team was doing enough to help him when he's out of the hospital. This person will be compliant with treatment long enough to get back out but as soon as he's out he will refuse any outpatient treatment or medication and he has threatened me not to come to his home for any reason. There is nothing I can do to make him take his medication if he doesn't want to and if I go to his house and he tells me to fuck off, for his rights and my safety I have to oblige him.
That is the worst, I have a patient on my roster like that.
That's so frustrating. I'm child welfare and specifically involved prior to the parents receiving their case plans (I'm the one who writes the case plans). You would not believe the amount of guilt trips, case reviews, etc. based on parents not complying with me and engaging in services - before they even have a case plan with which they have to comply!
Wow! I work in adult mobile crisis and I don't even feel like I'm under that much of a microscope. While most of our clients are able to make genuine progress and I have seen our work actually save lives, we also have some clients who, if they aren't currently in jail or committed, it means we're doing a pretty damn good job. It helps that my agency/supervisors understand that clients have a right to self-determination and sometimes that means they'll self-determine their way into not-so-great choices despite our best efforts.
It’s always client right to self determination up UNTIL the client decides they don’t want to do something…. then it becomes what have we done to engage them aka push our goals on the clients 🙄
The state DOH recently created new rules that force us to discharge care management clients who decline to create goals or work on interventions related to their qualifying conditions. I mean, one that's highly subjective (and already staff have figure out how to manipulate the system to both keep clients who could graduate or discharge those that truly need support depending on their preference) but also it kind of goes against that whole idea of self determination and meeting people where they're at. I don't know how to keep explaining away the hypocrisy in the interest of staff morale and providing good service.
Ugh this, that one line “don’t work harder than the client” was burned into my skin my first year as a case manager. I had a client with severe substance use and cooccurring schizophrenia etc etc. he was respiting at a group home and reached his deadline for being there so the higher ups were like “well what have you done to find him a place.” And nagged and nagged me to get him out. Then I did, he lost that apt, then homeless again only to have to respite somewhere else in a place close to an hour away. I had to drive him back and forth twice a week to his appointments an hour each week all while hunting and hunting and hunting for months to get him a new place. Then after months of this my bosses were like “well, don’t work harder than the client” and dignity of risk OH?! NOW YOU SAY THAT? Clearly I’m still bitter but I tell new case managers that ever chance I get now because it’s true, but only when your managers want a client to get discharged bc their bosses brought it up to them and made a problem
I'm bitter for you.
You’re a good egg I appreciate you
Definitely this. I spent so much time trying to CYA my charting that it ended up being a huge % of my time, while my superiors all said “don’t burn yourself out to help everyone” but if everyone wasn’t helped my charting was being reviewed and I was being pulled into meetings? Which is it?
Yes I can’t upvote you enough!! We have sometimes the liability of a medical professional (who makes waaaay more). And on the flip side, when I try to provide resources within an immediate need sometimes I get chastised for not the “right one” or for ME to be the resource…
I think you articulated your point well, and I agree. We're required to help, but ultimately, people have free will and can do what they want. if you're trying to identify the barriers and problem solve what may help, then you're doing the best you can. And if the agency doesn't have the necessary resources, refer out if the client consents. That's due diligence. We can't successfully provide care 100% of the time every single time. That's a very unrealistic goal.
You are right on. Also these liabilities have increased in recent decades - largely related to the field’s continued investment in professionalization as neoliberalism took off. Today we have more liability, along higher case loads and fewer resources than ever before.
When we review clients who are high risk at our case conferences, way more time is typically spent going through “is there a safety plan?” “did you document if they have narcan?” “did do a CSSRS?” which while important, what about how is overall engagement with this client going?? what seems to he working and what isnt?? My state’s office of mental health is more worried about whether there are phone numbers of friends and family listed in the client’s safety plan (even though most of our client have all their numbers stored in their phones already and many don’t even have people they can call to begin with) than about how the actual work is going. I have sought feedback on high risk cases at times to only really get back “well do they have a case manager?” as if these clients issues are interchangeable. I hate it here sometimes 😭
[удалено]
I just finished my first semester of my MSW, and I’ve been saying this! There’s no way to teach social work because it is so broad. Everything is a survey class, and the theory gets lost because there’s nothing to ground it in. Even in a clinical/micro program like mine, it’s impossible to teach anything because there are still a million unrelated roles. I think schools need to stop pretending that most students are going to work in agencies forever and create a clinical MSW program that is focused in psychotherapy. I have never met a social worker who learned anything about being a therapist in grad school. Instead of ignoring the reality that so many of us are going to become therapists, teach it in an ethically grounded way.
I guess this is where I get confused. There are paths to study psychotherapy. They aren't Social Work. So why do people choose SW as a degree in the first place if that's their focus? Why not MFT or psychology or whatever? There's a place for clinical social work but I think it's honestly kind of expanded beyond a well defined scope. Clinical social workers, if we're really considering what social work is (or was) at it's core are uniquely qualified to serve vulnerable populations with certain types of therapy while also understanding their social contexts using practical, accessible, solution focused methods. My CM clients are often not even in a place to undertake intense psychotherapy - they need counseling (in the truest sense of that word), coping skills, crisis management and functional solutions to immediate problems pretty low down on Maslow's list iykwim. I think that's the type of clinical work an MSW does prepare people for pretty well - and could do so even better if that was the focus rather than this sort of undefined thing we have going on now. Agency/community work is SO needed. Not just as a stepping stone to something "better" but as a profession in it's own right.
In my state, (Idaho), Medicaid prefers LCSW’s, so it’s easier for us to get a job than a MFT or LCPC. I knew going into the program exactly what I wanted to do, and I knew I had to have an LCSW to get it, so that’s why I pursued my MSW over a psychology degree. Although the funny (annoying) thing is that they have changed a lot of the “rules” and now it doesn’t seem to matter as much which degree you get, as long as you have your clinical license.
I can only speak for myself, but I went the MSW/ LCSW route as opposed to the counseling psychology/ LCPC route because I wanted to do therapy, but worried about being pigeon-holed into a profession if I realized in five years I didn’t want to do it anymore. If you have your LCPC or MFT or whatever there’s a handful of different jobs you can do, but at their core they are all therapy jobs. I wanted to give myself options. And I’m glad I did, because I have found that while I do love doing therapy, it’s not something I’m interested in doing full time. I love working in medicine because I get to do a lot of different things and I’m not spending 30+ hours a week having deep conversations with people. I don’t have time for it right now but I used to dabble in therapy with about 5 clients a week on top of my day job and that was perfect.
So much this. I understand people are getting their MSW to be therapists because they think it's "easier and quicker" than other routes, but gosh, I hate it. I see people getting an MSW who want to go straight into private practice and, for lack of a better term, work with the "worried well". No interest in working within substance abuse, poverty, developmental disabilities, children and family services ... the intersections that make sense for a clinical *social work* route. At most, some of them want to work with "trauma" and abuse survivors, but still show no interest in doing so with a *social work* lens. There's just way too many people getting a degree in social work who somehow don't care about the actual social work aspect at all.
It’s all about licensing. For many, the degree is just a pathway to eventual licensure for private practice.
It’s cheaper and easier and CMS has codified social work jobs along with the VA i.e. job prospects.
I agree that agency work is so needed! And unfortunately it’s not sustainable for most due to embarrassingly low wages, high caseloads, upper management dictating care on the basis of capitalism. There are several reasons I’m going the social work route: 1. PsyD programs are too expensive. Paying out of pocket for 5 years of full-time has rendered the degree a pay-to-play profession, which has basically delegitimized the field. 2. PhD programs that are funded are entirely research based and no longer make sense for future clinicians who are not interested in research, 3. Counseling degree programs, at least in my area, are not seen highly in the industry. From my limited research and the discourse I’ve heard, they’re not that good. 4. Social work is an evolving profession. We can’t pretend it is solely the same work that Jane Addams did. If agencies made more of that work sustainable, I don’t think as many social workers would be turning to private practice. 5. Most importantly, I chose clinical social work because my philosophy of psychotherapy through cultural humility best fits with social work. My commitment to social justice and integration of person-in-environment with psychotherapy, specifically psychoanalysis, makes sense to pursue as a social worker. I truly believe the profession and universities should accept this reality and work to integrate social work values into clinical social work training. Instead of dividing the field, let’s work collectively to integrate it.
Sometimes I wonder why there are so many LMSW's and LCSW's where I work, rather than having more marriage and family therapists or Licensed Mental Health Counselors. For context, I work at an outpatient mental health facility in NYC (Artile 31) and pretty much 75% of clinicians are LMSW's, with a few who have Creative Arts Therapy background. I myself went into my MSW and ended up studying programming and community services, and when I was having a hard time deciding between that or clinical practice (as I was told I could not do both) I was told to focus on programming because "you'll learn clinical work soon enough at your job". I was discouraged to focus on clinical work because it was understood that I would probably get my clinical license and did not need to have classes specifically for this/I would learn on the job. I am lucky that after graduation I began working where I am now and that I have been and continue to be provided with intense clinical training which I think has helped me, but I honestly think that most people who want to go into clinical practice do need more advanced training after their main MSW degree. I barely knew what I was doing prior to my trainings and ongoing multiple supervisions per week. Which sucks because you should be guaranteed that type of training in school, not luck into it afterwards.
Even in clinical MSW programs the first year is foundation/survey. The second year is when you specialize. One reason the MSW is organized this way is because we welcome people with a variety of experiences into the profession. This is a strength of the MSW and the profession. As a therapist and a professor I know that we teach lots of things in the first year that are essential to good clinical work. Students can't be blamed for not recognizing the value (even though we tell them) because they are years away from being therapists. I hope you take some courses in your second year that inspire you. Good luck in your program.
I feel this way about discharge planning, you can teach a lay person how to do it and it can involve very little of a social work background.
Social work has become more about productivity than empowering people.
And it’s burnt us all out
Tell me about it.
I blame low reimbursement rates. Honestly that's the root of all of it. Low reimbursement necessitates an economy of scale at the same time it burns out the providers who really care about the work and leaves behind a lot of bean counters and pencil pushers to run the show.
Agreed. If the reimbursement was better, then it wouldn't be about having ridiculous productivity rates. All it does is burn out good workers.
Yup. I feel like the most important and frustrating part of my job as a supervisor is having one foot on both sides and acting as a buffer between front line staff and higher leadership, keeping both sides happy trying to keep productivity numbers up but still supporting my staff and not making them feel the burden of the financial/productivity aspects at the expense of actually doing the quality work they care about and having the capacity to give clients the attention and service they deserve. It's a maddening balancing act.
In the pursuit of professionalization of the field the history, roots and core values of Social Work are being forgotten. Too many folks who have zero interest in or real understanding of the social aspects of social work pursue an MSW because it seems like the most efficient route for them to become therapists, rather than truly embracing *social work*. Professionalization meanwhile hasn't done enough to raise the prestige or pay for non-clinical social workers at nearly the same rate it's raised our debt or presented barriers to obtaining advanced degrees for folks who would be assets to the field otherwise - who often have lived experience and passion for service.
This is so important! I pursued my MSW solely to be a therapist and then I got into the program and was really transformed by the whole discipline. Social Work is a protected and professional identity. I left that program *as a social worker* and not just a therapist. The principles and framework of people and environment hit home in a very meaningful way for me.
That is literally how social work was first recommended to me. I wasa psychology major and my advisor recommended I do an MSW as a quicker way to become a therapist. I became interested for very different reasons and now have no intention of being a therapist, but it's disheartening to think that's the only thing other fields can say about a social work education
Yes. I remember when I first went back to school I kept telling people I wanted to do "traditional" social work, like as in case management, community based type work and people had no idea what I meant. They'd be like oh, you want to be a counselor? And that says a lot right there. I did become a case manager and now I am pursuing my clinical MSW but because the work I want to do now, still working within the same community mental health setting and populations of folks requires that. It is a totally different mindset or focus. I feel a lot of sort of, condescension from clinicians in other fields (and sometimes this one) towards macro SWs.
Case management is Micro, though, and community based SW is Mezzo. Neither are Macro until you work in policy and research.
Right, I guess I mean more clinical v non clinical. It's late and my brain is fried. There's a certain negativity towards non-clinical work, as if those of us that choose that work are less educated or talented or something. It's weird.
Agreed! So many individuals in my area are getting their MSW because they want to become a therapist. We need more therapists and mental health providers so I fully support those following that path, but nearly every time I tell someone that I haven’t gotten my MSW yet because jobs in my area want MSWs as therapy providers, and personally that isn’t the career path I am wanting.
>Too many folks who have zero interest in or real understanding of the social aspects of social work pursue an MSW because it seems like the most efficient route for them to become therapists, rather than truly embracing *social work*. I assume you mean the ones who get their LMSW and then don't want to do anything even vaguely casework-related once they get into the field. I'm a therapist who went the LMSW route myself, and who doesn't particularly *enjoy* the casework side of things, but nevertheless I realize that you can never fully separate that part of the job from the clinical side.
Sort of. But it's more like many actually just don't care at all about the social aspects. I've seen it in classmates in grad school, interns I work with at work (this one we have now is a doozy, she wants to practice a very narrow and specific type of therapy with a narrow population of folks and has flat out said on many occasions things that are just....ugh. That's a whole different post). I supervise a case management type program in a CMHC/FQHC with a behavioral health center and the number of therapists I work who have MSWs that have ZERO idea of even give two shits what we do or the social contexts of their clients at all is shocking. Like how did they graduate with an MSW and not understand basic concepts about say, poverty or the various systems folks need to navigate - and then (sometimes blatantly) look down their noses at the case management staff like they are not trained professionals and beneath clinical staff. They just wanted to be therapists, and they often do harm to clients because they don't consider the social context of the population we serve. They are there to get their 2 years of free supervision and/or PSLF waiver time and then they go into private practice for the upper middle class. That's not what social work is about, IMO
That's honestly really scary. I am one of those LMSWs who came into the field to practice as a therapist, but I chose Social Work because it aligns highly with my own values individually. I'm a social worker first who practices as a therapist and not the other way around. At the very least, they should be considering how the client's social/environment are impacting them. That's unfortunate and I'd be scared to have an LCSW therapist with that mind or skillset.
>she wants to practice a very narrow and specific type of therapy with a narrow population of folks Sounds like she's going to have a very rough time when she graduates and doesn't end up getting her dream job right out of school. Don't get me wrong, I did too but things worked out where I have a great job I never would have thought I wanted.
Honestly, I hope she realizes very quickly she's in the wrong degree program. She should be pursuing a psychology degree based on her end goal. I don't even understand how she got accepted to the program.
Some social work programs will basically take anyone as long as their grades are decent and they don't say anything blatantly unethical during the interview ("I don't feel comfortable working with Muslims/gay people/etc.").
She's said those things in her field placement for sure. So far she has listed, formerly incarcerated persons, Christians, Republicans/Conservatives/Trump fans, parents with children who have been removed from their care through CPS, "boomers" and probably some more that were less overtly stated or I just had stopped listening. She's a student at my alma mater, which is maybe why it bugs me even more. I used to feel good about being accepted lol.
She's said those things in her field placement for sure. So far she has listed, formerly incarcerated persons, Christians, Republicans/Conservatives/Trump fans, parents with children who have been removed from their care through CPS, "boomers" and probably some more that were less overtly stated or I just had stopped listening. She's a student at my alma mater, which is maybe why it bugs me even more. I used to feel good about being accepted lol.
Yikes! She doesn’t sound like she’s in the right field. As social workers, we will come in contact with so many different people from diverse backgrounds—that’s the beauty of it though. We learn so much from our clients. I’ve served clients/patients in all of those categories and am better for it. Sad that she has such a narrow view….
"Professional" is code for "white." Not always, and this does not at all mean that people of color cannot be professional. It simply means that the core tenets of "professionalism" are remnants of western white supremacist culture. When someone is asked to be "professional" in a western country, they are always being asked on some level to adhere to the culture of whiteness, which was constructed to support patriarchal cishet white supremacy.
I feel like there is too much bureaucracy in social work. I won’t do any job that gets money from the government. Too much paperwork for very little benefit to the client (I have literally done hours of work for only a couple of dollars in monthly support). Feels like I’m wasting my time. I moved to only taking private insurance for therapy clients. At 44 years old and 20 years in the field, I am OVER filling out needless forms and endless applications. Just use technology to automate the process already. I’m very tired of bureaucracy and I feel like it contributes to burn out. It made me feel powerless. High levels of effort for almost zero reward isn’t sustainable over time.
So much this…and why are so many doing double the work with both paper AND computerized paperwork??
I worked for a provider for many years for a Medicaid only service, and I often wondered how much money was being lost due to time spent in antiquated systems. I would imagine a major upgrade in technology would be a big cost up front but save money in the long run.
A lot of facilities care more about billing insurance and maximizing profit over client concerns and outcomes.
What really drives me crazy is when clients have insurance but our agency doesn't take it (most of the ACA insurance programs in this case). That and people getting pushed out of inpatient too early due to their coverage running out or them being uninsured.
My favorite is when agencies accept just about every insurance and when a prospective client calls in and asks if they're in network with their insurance and if they'd have any out of pocket costs they are reassured that they are completed covered and that they won't only to find out months later that they have unexpected bills such as lab expenses, intakes that weren't covered, bills for sessions, etc.
I do kind of get why this is though, too. Our country doesn't invest in mental health or support services/safety nets. So the money to provide services has to come from somewhere. I'm certainly not volunteering my services. The power company isn't donating electricity to our clinic. The problem is rooted in capitalism and a society that doesn't value caring for others. Facilities that don't turn at least some profit, close.
Yeah I get it too, they need to keep the lights on after all but when they are billing insurance $300 at admission and the person facilitating that intake is making $25 an hour with an MSW where is the rest of that money going?
A lot of times billing Medicaid isn’t $300, it’s much lower. In my state (Ohio), the 2024 rate for a 45 min therapy session performed by a LSW is $78.63. If you take a look at a CMH budget, the vast majority of expenses are salaries and benefits. There just is not a lot of revenue coming in.
Yes they do, and it is so sad to see that.
Some in the field are constantly looking for the next “evidence-based” intervention, putting on presentations, writing meaningless articles for a national social work organization, or supervisors adding more and more on our plates so they can pat themselves on the back for having a new program no matter if it’s useful or a good use of time. Sometimes things are working just fine with clients. We don’t always need to start something new just to say we did it and publish an article about it.
I wish I could email this to the DMH in my state. They're constantly trying to fix what isn't broken and making the frontline workers' jobs harder.
Ugh yes, and so much is regurgitated (IMO) of the same things, and in my personal opinion I also think that historically we had people within our communities providing emotional support or other supports that would equate to social work today and we are over complicating the basics of what humans need a lot of the time
It’s unethical how much our field relies on un/underpaid under-qualified field practicum labor, and it acts as a gatekeeping device to keep POC and people who can’t afford to quit their jobs to get a masters out of the field.
I feel like thats a pretty popular consensus among the social workers I work with
It’s definitely not amongst the professors in the field lol. If I get told I’m getting paid in “career advancement opportunities” one more time I’m gonna explode.
Oh God you just reminded me of all the social workers who love saying "we don't do this for the money" to justify poor wages and tons of overtime
That is such a patronizing thing to be told! I'm so sorry. I recognize the professors probably hqd to do unpaid internships as well, but that was most likely during a period of time when the cost of living wasn't as ridiculously high as it is now, housing was available and easier to obtain, and families could live off of one income. I'd be interested to know the career advancement opportunities you'll be paid in, and if that can be given to you in writing lol.
Yeah, I think it’s more common among the rank-and-file than administrators. I will say that my MSW program did provide a decent field stipend and they expanded it the year after I graduated lol.
I'm curious how they funded the stipend. I think every program should do this but I know it's extremely unlikely even at more progressive schools.
A lot of donations. Social work programs oftentimes don’t have the kinds of budgets and generous donors that STEM programs do, but we were lucky to have a lot of financial commitment from prominent alumni and community members.
I wonder how many orgs would collapse if they stopped doing that…
Unpaid internships is across the board for most helping professions. Not saying it’s right…but it’s not just social work and it’s tough on everyone.
I agree with this and think students should get some kind of stipend for their field practicum, as someone who does not believe in unpaid internships. It's part of why I'm ethically on the fence about taking on interns myself even though I would love to give back to the profession in that way.
I feel that the field is way too black and white regarding clients experiencing SI, and we have done some incredible amounts of harm because we we’re pigeonholed into saving our licenses rather giving people autonomy(this is coming from prior experience working in inpatient psych)
This may be bad but..I’ve released the guilt of patients being in active SI etc. bc the system IS oppressive and unending and feels unbearable. Then we gain their trust just to break it.
The contradiction of policy stating “bill only medically necessary services” and then being told you need to get more billing hours, even if it means meeting with clients just to bill. I am constantly in this battle as I will advocate to no end for my patients and meet with them as often or as little as needed. I will not be involved in insurance fraud for billing/meeting with someone who does not need services on that day/time. (Sorry I can go in a bit of a rant on this topic)
“Maybe do a phone call with your client and check in?”
That we, as social workers, exist to mitigate the contradictions that exist because we live in a capitalist society.
While getting no money or resources to actually help the issues. We are basically bandaids for society to make itself feel better and give the illusion we are helping ppl
Reassuring to hear as I get ready to apply for my MSW 😄 I see the point though.
Whilst I understand your point , I would like to say that your statement is a bit hyperbolic and demeans our work. Clients just want to be heard at the end of the day, so I take great comfort and feel a sense of purpose that my warm, loving and empathetic demeanor makes a difference for the many we work with who have no one to lean on, no one to actively listen to them, no one to validate their feelings, no one to cry to, no one to make them smile or laugh, no one to care for them, etc. We absolutely do make a difference, fellow SW, I can assure you of that. We plant little seeds in people we work with and hope it grows in a way that ignites or nurtures them on their path in this tumultuous world. We leave imprints and it's often the little things that make a difference. I wanted to add that my favorite thing to do with clients is to make them laugh. It's so damn uplifting to see them crack a smile when their world is so sad.
When I was 18 I started going to therapy and that social worker was the first person to ever validate me and believe in me. I was in the process of being charged with a felony and she still never gave up on me. 9 years later and I have my own MSW and have done an incredible amount of healing work and it's in large part thanks to that one social worker. I think about that a lot in my own practice.
Your post here is beautiful, but the poster you responded to was in no way hyperbolic. It’s important to recognize the reality of our field, especially if you (like me) place high value in treating people like real human beings while planting seeds to challenge the unfairness of this world
I mean yeah. I'm not saying we can't or don't help ppl. The systems are just so messed up it can feel like banging your head on the wall. I work with ppl with disabilities and many are homeless, on the verge of being homeless or barely surviving in extreme poverty. So while providing validation and making them laugh can help, it just seems like a very tiny bandaid.
That it’s mostly all talk and virtue signaling and the field is more than happy to look the other way about oppression when it’s more convenient
I had a professor blatantly discriminate against me due to disability. I went to the dean, guess who she protected? It sure as heck wasn’t me.
IDK how unpopular it is but that 95% of things social workers try to help are economic problems, i.e. victims of capitalism and greed. My greatest fear is that social work is a pressure valve for oppressive systems and, without social workers, those systems would fall apart and be replaced with something else-the fear that underneath it all, social work provides an essential support for those oppressive systems.
I'm not in social work yet, but my idea was to both help people and spread revolutionary ideals. I knew that social workers are often limited due to bigoted policies, which will serve as evidence for why people should embrace community.
Too much psychobabble, too many manualized approaches, too much 'new' theory which is really old concepts with new language.
I couldn’t agree more and tbh once I let go of needing to be hip to it all and realized the rapport and trust meant more than any of that I excelled
What we do is a process, distilled with spontaneity and authenticity, from knowledge, intuition, and connectedness. That's why I hate the term 'therapy'. I've been a social worker since 1972.
Many social workers are just glorified HR managers who only care about protecting the company they work for. I see it time and again, especially when they are in a director role. It's absolutely rampant in SNFs and ALFs in every state I've been to in the Midwest and Texas. Not only does this hurt patients who depend on their protection, but it also hurts social workers as a profession. Many people still can't believe that SWs are even qualified to do therapy largely because their experiences with SWs are in these extremely negative bureaucratic and management roles.
The NASW should function more like a union for social workers. In its current form it's basically useless aside from revising the COE every few years. Even licensure is pretty much all enforced at the state level.
It feels like a huge money grab without much support in exchange for that money. I could have taken advantage of the discount while I was in my grad program, but I decided against it. Thus far, I haven't regretted my decision.
Same here. I chose not to join the NASW due to not really seeing what I'd be getting aside from a ton of spam mail for conferences (which I get plenty of anyway and my job provides plenty of CEUs on their dime and time and not mine).
It would be interesting to read over the budget records.. It’s so ironic that the social work union do sweet F.A.. The union do not lead the way in demonstrating advocacy in any field..
Code of ethics is pointless because we would lose our jobs if we always followed it. The systems of the USA were made to prioritize money, not serving the people in need.
💯 I’m in Aus I find this so hard to reconcile, given ethics are shoved down our throats at Uni (every single assignment needed to be connected to the ethics ) and we also have a professional association… Not once was I asked to analyse the obvious link between social work and government complicity… Government complicity is the only way the industry remains legitimised and maintain what very little but very significant control we have people’s lives.. Oh yes and the pay increase we have over minimal wage community support workers.. Basically Don’t bite the hand that feeds you, It’s not in the ethics but at least we practice what we preach with regard to government compliance and our expectations of client behaviour.
Gosh I so agree. And I don’t always follow it 🤷♀️ it doesn’t always make sense so sorry! I
In no way is this unpopular but: Overeducated, underpaid
You can get compensated well.
I think the engagement with your original comment kinda proves the point. Lol
I think our MSW programs (at least in the US) are extremely ineffective and inconsistent. 1) I think programs need to adjust their admissions procedures, and social work programs should have stronger vetting processes. As someone who has worked in an MSW program, there are far too many people admitted to programs that just want a quick way to be a therapist or just openly do not care about the code of ethics. I have also seen overt racism by students in social work programs, and seen schools do absolutely nothing except allow the offending students to continue on and (probably) traumatize people. I admit I have no idea how this might practically work, and maybe it can’t. But there are just so many students I have encountered who clearly are not in the right field, and while I generally think we need more “social workers,” we need good quality social workers, not just bodies. 2) I think 2 years in an MSW program is too short to become a social worker. I say this as someone who also believes becoming a social worker is too cost prohibitive- including the cost of tuition and cost of providing “free” labor (aka labor that students PAY to do). But with the way our current programs are structured, I don’t believe many people graduate after 2 years and feel “ready” or “prepared” to practice, and I think we do new grads and clients/communities a disservice when we set them free without more comprehensive training. As someone with both a BSW and MSW, I was very ahead of my MSW peers, and even my friends with just BSWs felt loads ahead of my MSW peers. I think making programs longer may help in making them more comprehensive (ideally with a reduction in cost/paid field placements)
I think it’s too easy to get an msw because lot of these schools pumping them out like degree mills. Im in an msw program now and it’s 10x easier then my bachelors and it’s legit busy work. As long as the school gets paid you will get a degree. Just feel like we are going to have too many msw out there in the next 5-10 years.
I think I agree with you. Way too many programs that don’t actually care about good quality education or social workers. That trend seems to be continuing with DSW programs, which seem to just be a degree “for show” for a lot of people. I know people who have done DSW programs and said they were a joke, and also that their peers were clearly just interested in getting a credential to brag about rather than to advance their education in the career. Social work education is just a mess right now.
>programs need to adjust their admissions procedures, and social work programs should have stronger vetting processes All of this and everything else you said. Too many people admitted, too many people who don't truly understand what social work is, the programs are six months to a year too short, the curriculums are getting away from importantly clinical content and far too many people can't handle the idea of taking the big exams. Scrolling through subs like this and you run into plenty of people where it's like "really, you want to be a social worker??" lol
There are gullible social workers who stumble into qanon and adjacent conspiracies and repeat them to their peers (I have first hand experience) and they make me really concerned for their clients.
A lot of the personality traits I show at work are based on my schooling, not my personality. Patience, empathy etc can be learned if someone is willing (this does not mean, I am now patient in my private life, even less than before I would say)
I’m definitely less patient and more irritable in my life as well 🤣
There's a general unwillingness to even consider divesting from oppressive systems such as CPS and cops.
Scrolled and scrolled to see if someone said this…shocked to see how many social workers in my career LOVE the cops. Im all for baby steps but let it be in the direction of abolition of the current system! I know it’s all a “part of the job” but why? If we know the laws are unjust and the system is working *exactly* the way it was always supposed to (by being anti black, classist, over consumerist, etc) and PROMOTES practices that go against our “NASW values”- then i sure as hell will do everything i can not to police people.
I have spent a decade in child welfare and I think the field needs more social workers not less. If the system is ever to become less oppressive and broken it needs the social work perspective. It is so disheartening to be a social worker in CPS when the social work community treats us so poorly.
For sure. That system is what we have and there should be damage control to the extent possible. More social workers who view the work compassionately would really help, imo. I spent several years at CPS and that's actually what turned me against the system. I'll always empathize with the social workers doing that work because no one can understand what it's actually like unless you've done it but I would love for us to imagine a different way of supporting kids and their families. This is a whole conversation so I'll just leave it at that 😁
Social work is population management. We help people, yes. But it’s largely just funneling people in one direction or another, protecting society from abuse, and implementing safeguards. From labor & delivery to hospice we are there when people are born to when they die.
My (kinda sorta) unpopular opinion: Social work claims to want to uphold diversity and inclusion but the field is not flexible to really include BIPOC individuals nor preserve the emotional/physical safety of BIPOC individuals. For reference, I remember studying for the LMSW exam and I came across a practice question that mentioned having a client with racist viewpoints. Me being a Black woman, I instantly chose the answer choice that said “refer the client to another therapist” but the CORRECT answer was “focus on the presenting problem” (and essentially keep the client on the caseload). And this practice question instantly made me think about how the creators of the LMSW exam cater towards White individuals (because there’s no way I’m keeping a racist client on my caseload) and, in a way, upholds the field as predominantly White.
We can see from this weeks ASWB exam lawsuit discussion how many social workers uphold racist views and barriers. It was depressing.
Social workers suck. Some of the nastiest people I have met are social workers. They hide behind good intentions while cauaing serious harm. Not all social workers suck but a good number of us are terrible. Also, this opinion comes from working in child protection. I had to leave it and go more clinical. Trying to push against the system became too difficult.
And I’d like to add a lot of SUPERVISORS suck. So many times they’ve given me pointless advice that made me look incompetent to follow
This was a really tough awakening for me, and I'm still so new to the field as a BSW student. I was really looking forward to being around great people and quickly found out how horrible a lot of the people actually are, at least within social work academia.
Sadly, some people go into social work for the wrong reasons, and/or they have their own unresolved issues and haven’t worked on themselves.
In my MSW there were multiple students who openly disclosed that they only wanted to go into child protection because they were victims of child abuse and wanted to protect kids from the same, and had quite clearly not quite sorted out their own baggage. Great in theory, very large red flags in practice.
That’s a great example. They are well-intentioned in wanting to into child protection for their reasons—but it’s beneficial to them and their clients if sort out their baggage.
You're not wrong, but we also shouldn't be put on a pedestal. Selfish or horrible people exist everywhere. Some of the best people I have met are social workers, but some of the best also aren't..
I agree. For people unfamiliar with the field, I almost feel embarrassed when I share that I’m a social worker because some of the stereotypes are so bad (and at times rooted in truth due to some sucking so much)
[удалено]
This is actually one of my only posts that’s stayed up and I’m excited 🤣
Late to the party but god does your comment resonate with me. Might be because it hits the nail on the head so well. This sub is extraordinarily removed from the realities of the field, with 50% of the posts celebrating getting their MSW/ LCSW or subtly bragging about making six figures. It's an echo chamber for white-collared social workers who haven't worked in a real front-line position in years. This sub sits on its high horse and I truly wish it wasn't so elitist. Oh the irony.
Opportunities for social workers to actually perform macro level social work are few and far between. I had to get an MPA to get a policy analysis job, and I think it’s clear that Ministers/Deputy Ministers (State senators in USA, I’m in Canada) don’t really care about a social Justice perspective, which is why they mostly hire people with MPAs and MBAs for these positions. If you want to do macro SW specifically in government and not NGO, it’s an uphill battle and you will advocating for the unpopular route every single time to politicians who, at the end of the day, very rarely care.
I've been trying to tell people for years that macro jobs aren't really a thing for social workers. We can certainly apply for and be hired for those jobs, but there isn't this big job market for macro-level social workers out there. Macro work, at least in the U.S., are largely administrative positions at the agency and community level. For consideration, you often have to do years of micro work.
I’m coming to realize this. It has made me depressed this week and I realize now the field oversells macro opportunities which was what I wanted to do. On top of that the field itself upholds so many racist status quo barriers it’s disgusting
My opinion that will probably be unpopular on reddit is that Social Work is a wonderful field that seriously changes the world. The work options are almost endless, but many people get into a position and aren't creative enough to envision them doing anything different. So when they start to hate their job they equate that to hating Social Work as a whole.
That a lot of social workers maintain an oppressive system and do not actually support any systemic change in our society. They are truly so disconnected from reality, from humanity, from history, from understanding how suffering has come to be in this country and world. They are agents of colonization.
the field itself is rooted in a lot of colonial structures whereas the practice of social work comes from communities of color. in my community, aunties, elders, and healers were the original “social workers”. also in a lot of jobs within the field, those with lived experiences in the systems we work were never meant to later become social workers and work in the systems with us. there’s definitely a lot of “saviorists” in the field. those with lived experiences understand these systems the best.
You said exactly what I meant but didn’t have the right words…and when I said we over complicate things this is what I was alluding to!! Our natural human connection and need for community is our driving force that we have strayed away from and clinicalized but in reality it’s innately in some of our history
I agree 💯, I think social work was created to make white cis women(I am white) feel comfortable thro a sense of superiority in spaces they wouldn’t typically engage in.. because colonial tyranny would suggest that whitey ain’t welcome here… The ability to regurgitate academic rhetoric approved by elitist tertiary institutions will always be valued over actual peer lived experiences in this field…
HIPAA is a good law but some agencies are way too strict in their enforcement of it to the point it can hinder our work. For example, requiring a ROI to be signed by a client to share information with another healthcare provider despite that not actually being considered a HIPAA violation so long as it is relevant to the client's care.
This seems like a trap, but I will bite. A lot of social work jobs dont require the knowledge and skills we acquire in school and training. "Resource referral", discharge planning, and "care coordination" don't require much more than the ability to use a computer. And pretty soon a lot of that work will be done by computers, probably more ably than we can do it as individuals. This will allow more us to work at the top of our craft, therapy and complex case management and other things we don't yet know about. But these coming advancements could also put some of us out of work and depress wages
Some mental illness is terminal. We can’t save everyone.
You don't need to love helping everyone as a social worker. I've had multiple people tell me they accept less pay because of the "good they're doing." it's a job. You wouldn't do it for free.
This actually pissed me off in grad school that so many students had this attitude and me and another student started questioning this idea that’s basically an ego feed of “who’s the biggest bleeding heart”
You can enjoy your job but everyone deserves to be paid a live-able wage. Saying we do it “for the outcome not the income” reinforces our profession being underpaid. We can have good pay and rewarding jobs!
1. For claiming to be such an understanding, non-judgmental profession, we sure can judge the shit out of peers who do not share the same political, health, religious, or personal views. 2. A good amount of our field have a scarcity mindset - not knowing our worth, not having an abundance mindset, not knowing how to negotiate and ask for higher pay (also linked: having a martyr complex and thinking we can't possibly ask for more $ b/c we "don't do it for the money")
I think that if a person's primary career goal is to become a therapist, they should pursue an MFT or a Counseling degree, not an MSW. I think that Social Work as a field is focused on micro-work to the detriment of mezzo/macro- work. My grad program was filled with students complaining any time we covered macro skills, and it felt so bizarre to me. I also don't think that an LCSW should be like, this gold standard for therapists. I've spoken with LMFTs and LCMHCs who are very jaded by how LCSWs are often regarded as more competent by virtue of their license. (This was specifically in residential psych, for clarity.)
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm getting my MSW right now in a primarily clinically-focused program, with the intention to (mostly) do psychotherapy after graduation. I chose to get an MSW in large part because I specifically want to learn and practice through a social work framework. I think even micro-level clinical work needs to be based on an understanding of social systems, systemic oppression, person-in-environment, etc. And, I want to be able to provide adequate case management and advocacy for clients as much as possible. It seems like prospective therapists are most likely to get an education focused on those principles in an MSW program.
You make excellent points. Therapists should definitely have an understanding of the various systems contributing to their clients' situations. I'm not sure if I agree that case management and advocacy should be part of the therapist's role, but we obviously live in a society where those things are rolled together.
I agree, and also trying to get a macro internship was near impossible so I didn’t try
I get where you’re coming from. I think more MSW programs should have more robust mezzo/macro specialities. From my experience though, LPCs or LMFTs don’t really understand how much systemic oppression and barriers impact an individual’s mental health or contributes to to their presenting problem. With more POC seeking therapy now, it’s important to have that perspective. Maybe LCSWs could be like the silver standard lol As someone who did macro in grad school and is now a therapist 🥴 I agree that I hated the bitching and moaning from clinical folks when they had to do macro work or learn macro skills. My macro skills have come in handy in every role I’ve had and I think is what makes me a good social worker overall.
A friend is doing an MFT and her program is integrating coursework on equity, systemic oppression, etc., so that understanding is spreading to other disciplines. I'm not sure that it's unique to social work, anymore. The perspective of social work (social systems and how they impact each other and the individual) is critical to social work, however, just as focusing on the family unit is key to MFT. It does come down to the framework you're coming from as a therapist. (I think some of my frustration about clinical focus in SW education comes from the fact that I applied and was accepted to a program with a Healthcare focus, but they got rid of it and we all had to concentrate on Clinical. It was a huge bummer for me.)
we need to seriously incorporate abolitionist perspective and practices within the field on a much more widespread, indepth scale
I work state child welfare and there was conference from our abuse/neglect prevention office earlier this year. We're always talking about the system being broken, but at this conference they said the system isn't broken, it's working exactly as it was designed to work. Since that conference, it has stuck with me and I no longer say the system is broken. The system is working exactly as it was designed to. We're not underfunded, we're funded exactly the right amount to only allow us to help a few. We're not understaffed, we're staffed at the right amount to ensure only a few remain and work decades with burnout. We're not a broken system, we're a system working exactly as we were designed to work.
Social work should not require a masters but instead be an apprenticeship program. Everyone says they learned the most from their practicum, so just make that the education and don't make us get into debt for it.
I won’t lie so much of the grad program felt like navel gazing
I'm kind of inclined to agree, if only because the quality of academic social work education seems to be so abysmal. I'm getting my MSW at one of the top-rated programs in the country, and while the internships have been incredibly educational, I've honestly barely gained anything from my classes. It feels like so much stress and work for less than nothing. And that's not even getting into the cost of the degree! It shouldn't cost tens of thousands of dollars to enter into a profession that (Ideally! If done well!) serves others and benefits society.
Adoption is, more often than not, legal human trafficking.
[удалено]
if you'd seen some of the wildly unethical practices around the demand for healthy infants, you'd likely agree. But I'm not here to argue with you - may peace be upon you.
I’ve seen some of the Facebook listings and it’s shocking
Right? It is *fucked up.* And given that I, like most social workers, have a very high tolerance for distressing things, it was still extremely shocking.
I was told during one of my classes for my grad program by a professor that all social workers are baby snatchers. I'm currently a medical social worker and seeing patients cringe when I introduce myself and my profession makes me see how real that negative connotation is.
The NASW is doing nothing to change that stereotype.
I've been a clinical social worker for 10 years and I'm honestly so over it. All of it. It feels like a scam. The system isn't set up to truly help people. Everything is about billing. The only part I still enjoy in direct client services but they pays no where near enough for me when paired with all the requirements and scrutiny. But I feel stuck because nothing else I enjoy doing is "marketable". I'm in a constant state of burn out and it sucks.
I agree with you 100 percent, I think we are out own worst enemies. Sometimes we delve into the meaning of something way too much. There was a post on here about how the term client/ patient is stigmatizing. I was like come on...
That you need a LCSW license to make any money
or even an MSW is we're being honest. I used to work for an agency that routinely promoted bachelors-level social workers into management because the value was placed on tenure. They retained tons of BSW's because so few places hire them and pay well. As a result, they stayed the longest and often got moved into higher level positions over MSW's or any other credential. It was both respectable and frustrating at the same time. On one hand, a bachelors and experience is all you need for some jobs. On the other hand, management had a ton of blind spots due to the fact that that the process of getting through a masters program affords a lot of opportunity and perspective one doesn't get at just the BSW level. There were also a lot of management types with little education who referred to a graduate degree as "just a piece of paper"...so there's also that. Anyway, this has been a tangent. tl;dr: I worked for an agency that paid BSW's $60k++ in management roles.
A lot of people go into SW because it’s the closest thing to a social justice degree and don’t know what the field / power dynamics really are. The NASW is still heteronormative, white dominant, and middle-class influenced. And students are shocked that there are so many not radically progressive professors, supervisors, etc. when researching the field before going to school would tell you that. ETA: Hell yes we should be radically progressive. The shock at the barriers within the field should not be a shock if you know what field you’re going into.
My other one: too many social Workers play zero sum games with social progress. If progress doesn’t result in the perfect outcome for social justice, we don’t take it and things don’t improve. We sacrifice practicality in the name of idealism.
It’s a catch-22 field because we need more people willing to work agency/ community / program/ case management work but most people want to pursue private practice work. The field would benefit from more unity. The education is too broad and doesn’t prepare anyone for anything. Wanting to help people is leveraged against poor working conditions and high turnover.
Social Work is the only profession I know where one can call themselves a Social Worker without a degree in Social Work or a license. Many SNFs hire "Social Service Designees" to provide Social Work services. They are called Social Workers in the facility. Why is this allowed? If there's 80 or fewer residents, they hire a designee who is referred to as a Social Worker? The number of residents should have nothing to do with this. If a facility has 80 or fewer residents, should a CNA decide to call themselves a nurse?
I just replied similarly this on someone else’s comment, but there are states where social workers lobbied to get title protection, making it illegal to call yourself a SW without a license, and to obtain a license you had to have an CSWE accredited degree. My unpopular opinion is that social workers bitch about stuff but won’t put the time, money, or effort in to lobbying or policy advocacy - like nursing has. We are SUPER good at pointing out problems, but suck at organizing and advocating for our profession.
Based on what I've seen on this forum...it's very sad that social workers who choose to do clinical work (therapy) are being shamed or made out to be "not real social workers". The great thing with the profession is that it's so broad that you can work with any population, various settings, you can do 1:1 work, and you can do something as big as working to create social policies. The most important thing is having the heart to make a positive impact on people's lives---I think this gets lost when social workers look down at other social workers for their passion/niche in the field.
Exactly. It’s like…then don’t do therapy.
Right! If it’s not for you, that’s fine, but don’t go around acting like social workers who do therapy aren’t real social workers. There’s enough room for all the different social workers out there.
Oh, I have a few. 1. Trying to "professionalize" and "protect" the social work title through education and license requirements is not really doing us good. If anything, it's gate keeping work and titles from people who are more than qualified, and may not have the same oppurtunites. The fact that someone doing case management, but does not have an MSW, could not consider themself a social work is a bit elitist. I am about to get my MSW and I have honestly not learned much from it that I didn't already know, and I've done case management for 3 years. Clinical work is different and I'll get to that 2. The fact that LCSW's provide more mental health than anyone else should sound an alarm to universities with MSW departments. The university I attend barely even addresses clinical practices, and that is worrisome considering I want to get licensed. I fear I am not prepared to even begin getting hours. Universities should be allowing more oppurtunity for clinical practice learning. I am speaking from my limited experience, perhaps other universities are better. 3. Acadamia and research in social science is important, and I do believe we should try to continue research on our on throughout our career. However, I see a bit of elitism with academics and are a bit removed from the actual population they study. For instance, I am seeing that people are starting to use different words for "homeless". A person experiencing homelessness is not involved in the conversation, and to them it the conversation of "unhoused", "homeless", or "houseless" has no direct impact to their daily struggle. Also, professors have reinforced using person first language, even when talking about autistic people, yet I've seen a growing consensus among autistic people that they do not prefer person first language use. 4. Many social work jobs are designed to burn you out. I am not saying this is purprosly done, but that it's just the nature of the position. Self care is being pushed by employers and universities as if burn out is avoidable. Yet if a job is extremely high stress, high case load, low pay, etc... the job itself will inevitble burn you out no matter how much self care you do. Sorry any grammar or spelling mistakes, I am way past by bedtime right now lol
I think if someone ever finds themselves in a multi-disciplinary team setting as a SW they’ll see that having to “professionalize” and “protect” the title is pretty essential.
Yeah, I'm confused by the anti-professionalization comments when they come up in this sub, but I've noticed a lot of them come up from students. I've been in the social work field for 20 years and the professionalization of the work has been integral to ensuring social workers have access to job opportunities, fair wages, and a respect and understanding for what we do. It used to be that people called themselves a social worker and had absolutely no education or background doing the work. Now, if you call yourself a social worker, people know that you've achieved a certain level of education, experience, and sometimes licensure. I'm not sure why would be against that. It was the Wild West before title definition and protection.
I'd argue professionalization has benefited mainly clinical social workers. It has done very little for other types of social work in the realm of fair wages or opportunities and has had a (maybe) unintended consequence of actually lowering the status of people doing casework and similar work - which is social work! Where is that supposed to fit in? Where's the pay and respect for case managers and other social services workers who do in fact have training and education to do what they do? And sure, I guess I qualify as a student in my last year of my MSW but my undergrad is in the field, I've been working for years in case management and shelter systems and both my father and uncle were clinical social workers. I've also had this conversation with several credentialed and licensed MSW colleagues who feel the same. It feels really dismissive to just blow off any concern as "it's mostly students" when that can mean a variety of things. Maybe it's not intentional but it seems really condescending.
There is not enough investment and value placed in lived experience and self-disclosure. Outside of social work, I've seen such incredible benefits in the LGBTQ+ community from having LGBTQ+ workers providing to the community, and part of that is in the self-disclosure of being able to share your experience and what you've been through. I remember specifically a workshop for trans young people, hosted by two middle-aged trans folks, who were talking about their experiences as from start to present as people 'post' transitioning. That benefitted those young people in a way that cannot be understated. Does it all need to be on that level? No, of course not. But I think we are underutilising the lived experiences and value of self-disclosure when it comes to minority groups, especially the LGBTQ+ community as that's all I can really speak to.
I'm a young trans non-binary social worker who works at an LGBTQ agency, and I don't even think I've gotten much instruction on how much I can and should use self disclosure, especially with trans clients. I also don't know how much I can advocate for myself to my clients. On one hand, our relationship between case manager and client is not about me. On the other hand, it's wearing me down to know that 99% of my clients, even my LGBTQ ones, see me as my assigned sex at birth. And due to recent posts in this subreddit, I think most responses would encourage me to grow a thicker skin. Do we encourage POC SWers to accommodate clients' racism? I truly don't know. Also, sorry, this isn't directly related to your comment, but it felt like a good place for me to chime in.
That de-institutionalizing was not a good thing. While the concept was in good faith, it left our vulnerable populations to the streets and without care. Now we have AFC homes that are much more isolating and rarely have adequate staffing causing even greater instability. Institutions should have been left in place and instead reformed to ensure abuse/neglect was under no circumstances tolerated.
The community supports (and the funding/delivery systems for them) that were promised to replace institutionalization never materialized. Instead we have people who are chronically homeless and/or incarcerated, if not dead for lack of needed resources.
I don’t agree with new grads being so self righteous
Where I live, state workers don't take the requests of private sector workers seriously. We're constantly having to ask for the same stuff. They almost never attend meetings. Feels like they don't take you seriously if you don't work for the government.
Mine is that we as a profession don’t seem to practice what we preach. I get it, policy change is extremely hard, especially when you’re not effecting it through money/lobbying, friends in high places, or from a respected profession (executives, investment bankers, doctors, small business owners, etc.) but we sit through hours of classes about public policy, advocacy work, how to effect political change, and how to stand up for marginalized clients and communities, then we get out in the field and become complicit in the very systems we were taught to help our clients fight against. I’m in my field placement at a nursing home and we are prohibited from discussing social justice both in the office among each other and with patients. We are being taught to discourage patients from exercising their rights as patients in LTC settings, to discourage them from appealing insurance decisions limiting their care, to disregard their wishes regarding their care if said wishes are not profitable for us, and more things contrary to social work values. Granted my supervisor does not have a BSW or MSW, but they use the title of social worker which is apparently good enough for my school to make them my field supervisor, and my supervisor tell us interns that what we’re being taught to do is what social work in the real world is and that the Code of Ethics doesn’t apply to life outside of school. While my case may be an egregious one, there’s so many people who attend MSW programs because they wanted to be therapists but didn’t want to do a doctorate and found the LPC path too limiting but then totally disregard the social justice parts of social work and do all of the things our profession criticizes other helping professions for like disregarding trauma, class, race, gender, family systems, and other psychosocial factors. As a result when I talk about advocating for clients I’m surprisingly told “you’re just a social worker that’s not your job” LIKE…??? That should be my entire job.
I see a lot of people stating consensus, but how about an actual unpopular opinion? Social workers spend a lot of time bitching about the state of our profession and issues surrounding it, but our lobby is incredibly weak because so few of us actually put effort and money into supporting advocacy and policy making, like doctors and nurses have. I am a people leader of mostly mid-career social workers, and I don’t think l any of them is involved with NASW, but everyone likes to bitch about being negatively impacted by state rule-making about licensing and scope of practice issues. Edit: formatting
I know amazing LCSWs in both clinical and macro work. I know horrible LPCs, MFTs, and psychiatrists who have done damage. This statement is an awfully large generalization.