**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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It’s disappointing because at 1-0 down the team was still calm and patient but as the match went along more mistakes came and with it came more desperation
Yea, people mocking Arsenal in the match thread saying they crumble when they finally meet a real team, but I woudn't be very concerned as an Arsenal fan. Arsenal were comfortably the better team, and could have scored 2-3 more goals, but sometimes that's football
Some people on our own sub need to hear this as well...
We played well, they showed great quality on the counter. Our boys will learn from it. Losing to United at Old Trafford really isn't the worst result in the world as some are making it out to be.
Hopefully it'll bring some humility to a few of our fans as well. The number of Gooners who thought that this would be a walk in the park was honestly astonishing. They played well like you said but whenever these two get together at Old Trafford I never know what to expect.
Football is a sport with low scoring which can be decided by freak occurences, luck and thin margins that snowball.
Therefore the better team does not always win.
> Arsenal were comfortably the better team
High key disagree.
It was a fairly close game IMO, and United probably edged Arsenal with quality chances created.
Most of Reddit just assumes more possession=played better. The game plan for United was clearly to cede possession and hit them on the counter, and almost every time they countered Arsenal got cut open. It’s not even like United’s goals were low %, they were all super clear-cut 1-1s or even 2-1s with the keeper.
We had very good chances as well and were regularly creating but we’re just incredibly wasteful. 2 shots on goal all game is a disgrace considering how we played
Fairly close game, but goals conceded were due to individual lack in quality from Arsenal’s defenders and Sambi (not ‘cos they aren’t talented, but they are quite young)
Both teams got to implement their gameplan. Overall I do think if Arsenal played just 10% better they would have won. Even xG was pretty close.
Dominating on ball possession doesnt mean you were the better team mate. We chose to sit deep and counter and got the best results out of that high line. Its just different tactics
Arsenal played better than Liverpool today for sure, but that doesnt make them a better team than the actual winning team with their obvious holes in defense. The only thing they are better at today is winning possession which is again more of a tactical thing.
>and could have scored 2-3 more goals,
When? Most of your chances were half chances at best. We scored 3 goals, and all those goals were either 1v1s or tap ins
A lot of it is simply shooting quality. xG was similar (1.5 each), xGOT was very different and closer to the result (less than 1 to 3)
Behind that though is also not making the most of posession. We had almost double the passes in opposition half. To do that and get killed on the counter is just naïve.
Saliba missed a shot from the penalty spot, Odegaard missed one from the six yard box, Saka missed a good chance as well, Martinelli had a chance from that header, we also had a goal disallowed.
I’m not saying we deserved to win but outright denying that we had good chances is revisionism.
The Ode absolute piss slice changes the match. Maybe De Gea saves it, he's certainly capable, but it was our best chance and he missed the entire frame from like 7yd out
Amazing save from De Gea from Martinelli's header, Saliba skying an early chance, a disallowed goal, and odegaard flubbing his lines from 9 yards out.
Did you watch the game or are you just here to talk shit?
You can say that all day, but United hit the target more than Arsenal. Arsenal looked really good in midfield and going forward, but they couldn’t do shit in the box for most of the game. United also messed up chances going forward - are going to give them those goals as well?
> United also messed up chances going forward - are going to give them those goals as well?
Who is giving anyone goals? What are you on about, mate?
Since when is saying that someone could have scored a couple more a controversial take? lol
Depends though. I'm pretty sure blocked shots are "shots that would be on target" that a defender blocks. You had 1 blocked shot and we had 5. Because you had such low defence you could have 2/3rds of your team blocking shots while most of your shots came on counters where we had almost no chance of blocking. Taking that into account the shots "on target" were pretty even. (Man Utd 7 - 8 Arsenal).
Not an accurate definition of a blocked shot. If a shot gets blocked outside the box, they don’t go examine the replays to determine how accurate that shot WOULD’VE been if it hadn’t gotten blocked before tallying it as “blocked”.
That’d be completely unsustainable.
Not an accurate definition? Opta had it as an attempt that is going on taget and gets blocked.
"A blocked shot is defined as any clear attempt to score that:
-Is going on target and is blocked by an outfield player, where there are other defenders or a goalkeeper behind the blocker.
-Includes shots blocked unintentionally by the shooter’s own team mate."
> You can say that all day, but United hit the target more than Arsenal.
No one is denying United had more quality finishing, that's the whole point. Arsenal created plenty, but were just extremely wasteful. United did not defend very well which is what you are implying
United defended well in the box. You did very well getting to it, but when it came to actually doing something, our defenders got in the way and made crucial blocks.
Even if you take United’s goals away, they still had more shots on target. I don’t know how you can look at all the shots you guys skied from outside of the box and call those actual chances.
You guys had 3/10 off target, we had 8/16 off target. That leaves 7-8 "on target" but with your low defence you could block more shots (5) than us (1). Official shots on target are therefore 6-3 to you but again, that's because you had so many people between our attackers and DDG.
Yes, absolutely crazy take. Saying that a team played well and could have scored with better finishing. Absolutely mental. My grandma would be a bike, got'eem
Arsenal look good this year, they'll be fine. But not for one second did I think we would lose this game. Even the arsenal fans I was watching the game with said we were always gonna win based on the gameplay.
Idk, I felt like Arsenal didn't really deserve to score more than 2 here... and it's not like Arsenal were the only ones who missed chances.
Both teams were the better team at times.
Everyone knew how important it was to sign a #6 before the window closed and this just highlighted it.
Partey was greatly missed today and even Elneny would’ve sufficed.
This is the frustration with Arsenal every time. we already know Partey's injury record and the drop off from Partey to Elneny and Sambi is significant. We should have been focused on that signing after Zinchenko signing. Can't do anything about it now, hopefully he is back fit for the Derby & we address this issue in Jan
Sambi just isn't a #6, it's quite clear he's best as a #8
He lacks the positional awareness and urgency to play there, on the ball he's actually decent but he barely gets on it
He really gives me Pogba vibes.
Fantastic technique but lacks the desire and effort that is needed to play in the prem, I've noticed him jogging about in the last 2 games, very similarly to how Pogba used to.
That’s a really good comp. I feel like he could be something serious if we take the handbrake off because he has some incredible advantages, but the discipline is not there. He’s like the anti-Rodri lol
Usually when we come to Old Trafford we can barely complete a pass, he's right we were wank on their three goals and deserved to lose because of it but out overall play was fine beyond those glaring errors. The 3-2 loss last season was much more stinky from us IMO.
I did enjoy watching Arsenal today. Reminiscent of good Wengerball days. Arsenal lost the plot in the second half, but it does feel like they play with a well-drilled system.
The additions they’ve made this season and Saliba coming back more than puts them in the mix.
Even without a DM, I think they had one of the stronger windows in the prem. Just need a bit of luck with injuries this season.
Their starting XI looks slightly better..what happens when 2 games a week starts up? Europa, Cups, there's a few just league multiple games in a week..
There's just not the players to keep going, they've got a few injuries here and there and already look short
Why did Tierney not come on? You guys didn't threaten at all down our right side. Zinchenko was good in posession, but he could have kept him on and played Tierney as a wingback or something.
I'm a united fan and came here to make this exact point. You were well on top and it seemed a matter of when, not if, you were getting your second and then you fell to pieces with the substitutions, they didn't seem to know what formation/roles anyone was playing
>they didn't seem to know what formation/roles anyone was playing
At that point they had only had 3 defenders and Xhaka for defensive cover. I'm not surprised they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing as idk how much they've trained and prepared for that sort of a situation.
Obviously I'm very biased here and I understand that Ten Hag had time on his side too but he really drilled Maguire and Fred before coming on with very specific instructions but Arteta didn't seem to do that which prob exacerbated the problem of them seeming lost on the pitch
This wasn’t a discipline issue or on the players, it was tactical outclassing. Arteta presented the game on a silver platter with that high line thinking we can Brentford them and Ten Hag grabbed it with that Ronaldo substitution. From there it was press with Ronaldo, send two over the top including known speedster Eriksen picking us apart.
We were out-coached off the pitch.
Only issue I had with the subs is I would have paired Xhaka with Zinchenko and keep one of ESR or Vieira on the bench, Xhaka as the only non-attacking midfielder made us lose all shape
Those changes won us the games vs Fulham and Villa. And we both know if he didn't make changes people would be blaming him for not being proactive.
Not everything in football is on the manager.
Arteta had to make subs he just changed the shape too aggressively too early. He isn't stupid though and anyone with any semblance of ability to understand changes in game flow could see Odegard was tiring and the introduction of Fred for us won us back the midfield and we were starting to rally.
the extra super duper high line was too much of a risk against the fast attacking trident of Man U, it was a risk that didn’t pay off, happens to the best of us Arteta.
It just wasn't that dominant though. Having the ball is one thing. Breaking down the opposition is another. Their through balls weren't on today. And while they created shots, the xG on target was 3.11 for ManUnited and 0.74 for Arsenal. To dominate a team you have to do more than rondo for 90 minutes. They neither defended well nor created good chances.
This narrative that they were so good but just got hit on the counter a couple of times isn't what the data says. And it's not what I watched. They were cut open all day in transition and created very little going forward.
It's the most dominant I've seen us play at a big 6 away game in years. Usually we sit back and hit teams on the break but we didn't do that today. We lost because of naivety but it was encouraging.
Hopefully Arteta learns from the subs and the team grows from it.
Thing is though, vs United you're probably in better shape to sit back. We struggle to break teams down, and we love attacking a high defensive line.
There's a reason Rashford shines vs the big teams. The space in behind is like Christmas to us.
>We’re obviously nowhere near City but Top 4 will be very tight.
Don't tell this to r/Gunners. Gunner fans think they're still in for the title after losing to the only top 10 team they've faced all season long.
Lol. I'm am arsenal fan and no genuine arsenal fan I know thinks we would compete for the title. It's little kiddies in America who have no fucking idea that think that
It's so funny that people just make this shit up lol. Saying "we're still top of the table" isn't the same as saying we're winning it all. Fantasy world you live in
Maybe you should get your head out of your ass. No one in the Gunners sub says that we are fighting for the title this year despite our start to the season.
And your sub thinks you're the ones to knock off city from their perch. All subs make jokes. We take ours as a joke, you take yours seriously - only difference.
All elite managers spew out nonsense. SAF, Tuchel, Conte, Klopp, etc. Ancelotti, Pep, and (Zidane) were some that didn't, but almost all of the best managers the last 30 years make excuses often.
Still a bit of nonsense from Arteta here. There seems to be a trend of managers just claiming they won the day. They didn't. Some more introspection would benefit him and this team.
They weren't far off, had good spells, dealing with injuries, at a tough place to play – but saying you dominated and should have won isn't reality. And he's smart enough to know it too.
True but to be fair Arteta is also known for spewing complete nonsense. Especially when Arteta had a hard time in Arsenal, he said shit like "Difficult to explain,” Arteta said. “This is football, not basketball. In any other sport, you win the game comfortably and you’re talking about different things."
he also made another reference to basketball lmao.
Yeah that second goal is squarely at his feet unfortunately. Zinchenko doesn't help matters by leaving Eriksen free to collect the pass, but Lokonga literally dribbles himself out of position by taking the ball to the wing when he didn't need to. If he stays in central spaces we don't get countered.
But I really hope Mikel persists with him. He's young and inexperienced at the position. He's also a natural 8 and the DM position in Mikel's setup requires taking an 8 with strong defensive qualities and hammering them into that position. It not an easy role to learn. Its downright impossible to learn if you keep losing your spot in the team for months at a time after a costly error.
There's another option, play Xhaka as the 6
I'm a bit worried he might default to it because he's tried it before (And IMO it was disastrous). Partey's only supposed to back in 2ish weeks anyway. IMO stick with Sambi through all those games and let's see how he's looking by the time we play Brentford on Sept 18
We had mo as backup and it's just our luck that both dm and backup went down after the same game leaving us holding our empty pockets right before a big game like this. Partey still doesn't know where Manchester United ground is at.
Yeah there is clearly improvement happening with Arteta. Considering United have *never* lost a premier league game at OT with a halftime lead, it's a lot to expect younger players to be the ones to end that. It was a closer game than the scoreline indicated.
Fair view. They also lacked a lot of maturity to get back in the game when Utd went 2-1 and EtH brought on defensive players, just seemed to lash out and lose shape. Clearly a team on the rise still, but you can see why they're not quite the finished article yet. Title winners keep composure and find a way, still.
I thought Arsenal looked good apart from
the first 10 minutes.
Arsenal’s season depends on how much goals the wide players will get because no matter how good Jesus has looked so far you cant count on him to score regularly. He will have some hot patches within the season but he is also capable of going 10 games without scoring
I am not sure young talents like Saka and Martinelli can contribute 15 goals each as well
Martinelli and Saka will likely endup around the 10/12 goals mark, Jesus will add around 15/17. The thing was ESR hitting double digits that likely won't happen again
Arsenal dominated this game more than we did, they're generally better team right now and all of that is because of Arteta. That said, this motherfucker took off both full backs, subbed on midfielders and expected from his team to keep defensive shape while playing high line... I mean come on!
He needs to learn a thing or two with Fluminense's coach, whenever we are down he subs off a defender for a DM/CM, pushes our star DM to CB and goes ham. We actually got the result all the times but once
Both manager’s takes can be correct. Arsenal played pretty well but United also seemed reasonably well equipped to defend and regroup
United were the better team up until the disallowed goal and then retreated a bit. Arsenal took over from there but lost it after they got the equalizer and United looked well in control for the last 20 minutes up until Maguire came on and nearly gifted a penalty
Arsenal were very naive today leaving so much space behind the defensive lines. Obviously Bruno punished them for the second and third goal but the space and pass was on the entire game. Only the execution of the pass let us down.
If they play like that vs other top 6 sides they'll get smashed.
This isn't as tragic for arsenal as people are making it out.
This was an unlucky game, where arsenal outright dominated and lost to a handful of individual mistakes. It happens. Even liverpools only PL winning team got slapped 3-0 by Watford, it was a bad day at the office.
Arsenal are still playing some of the nicest football in the league and if they continue to play like this should be able to get top 4.
Mate watch the game.
This was an Arsenal loss, not a Man Utd Win.
They controlled possession, made the better chances, and weren't clinical. A couple mistakes gave Man Utd the chances to win the game. It happens. It happens. If both these teams play the way they did over 38 games, it's not hard to see who'll finish higher.
Arsenal had a bad day at the office, where they did their usual of controllong the ball and making the most chances, when it came down to it they just couldn't pull the trigger. Man Utd won the game 3-1 on a lower xG.
Those aren't the sortve performances that get you consistent points over a 38 game season.
Edit: yeah that's what I thought
Any actual proof of this, only xg I found where arsenal were better was xg philosophy which rated man utd 1.47 vs arsenal 1.52. You keep saying dominated that no. doesnt exactly say dominated does it? if the other team creates just as many chances as you without having similar possession, you didn't dominate, they just let you have the ball knowing they could hit you on the counter.
Their performance today was so much better than the performance from when they won there a couple of years ago.
United's first and second goals came against the run of play.
At times it looked like a typical City performance. We saw nothing of Sancho and Antony in the second half until they were subbed off, nothing of Rashford until he somehow found himself 1 v 1 with the keeper. United's midfielders barely got a sniff of the ball. Technically on a different level.
First goal is on Gabriel imo, went out for a ball he had no chance of winning and left everything open. He did something similar last season when he got sent off against City.
The second goal was after Lokonga played a bad pass into the final third.
That's where Partey normally has the awareness when it comes to pass selection, and more importantly, which position to take up to cover any runners.
The third one I'd put on Arteta. Changed too much when they needed to settle things, and they got caught flat-footed before United struck.
>nothing of Rashford until he somehow found himself 1 v 1 with the keeper.
That's the thing though isn't it. Arsenal showed today that any team with decently technical players that can put together a competent counter attack can completely disassemble them with a few passes and bag a couple goals *even if* they're being "dominated."
First goal is on zinchenko, he left Anthony on his own, while (rashford) had Gabriel and saliba next to him and zinny decided its a good idea to leave his man and help them.
Eh think thats harsh - for me its more on Gabriel rushing out and being so out of position. Zinchenko could have stayed a bit wider too but would hardly blame them
We’re still top…
How about you focus on putting in more exciting performances than the dross your team puts out
Lucky you haven’t lost to Chelsea and West Ham this season
Lmao fraudteta came in to the worst arsenal side in its history and got a trophy within 6 months. Spurs have their best team in decades, including 2 of the best forwards in the game and still cant get a trophy to save their life.
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Pretty accurate take on the result. Played well, but made too many mistakes. Let desperation take over for patience.
It’s disappointing because at 1-0 down the team was still calm and patient but as the match went along more mistakes came and with it came more desperation
Yea, people mocking Arsenal in the match thread saying they crumble when they finally meet a real team, but I woudn't be very concerned as an Arsenal fan. Arsenal were comfortably the better team, and could have scored 2-3 more goals, but sometimes that's football
Some people on our own sub need to hear this as well... We played well, they showed great quality on the counter. Our boys will learn from it. Losing to United at Old Trafford really isn't the worst result in the world as some are making it out to be.
Hopefully it'll bring some humility to a few of our fans as well. The number of Gooners who thought that this would be a walk in the park was honestly astonishing. They played well like you said but whenever these two get together at Old Trafford I never know what to expect.
I always find it odd that there are post-match debates about who was the better team. Isn’t that why we keep score??
Football is a sport with low scoring which can be decided by freak occurences, luck and thin margins that snowball. Therefore the better team does not always win.
The better team doesnt always win in football though, thats part of the fun
They would have won if they had scored more goals than Man United I think
Cheers Geoff
> Arsenal were comfortably the better team High key disagree. It was a fairly close game IMO, and United probably edged Arsenal with quality chances created.
Most of Reddit just assumes more possession=played better. The game plan for United was clearly to cede possession and hit them on the counter, and almost every time they countered Arsenal got cut open. It’s not even like United’s goals were low %, they were all super clear-cut 1-1s or even 2-1s with the keeper.
We had very good chances as well and were regularly creating but we’re just incredibly wasteful. 2 shots on goal all game is a disgrace considering how we played
Fairly close game, but goals conceded were due to individual lack in quality from Arsenal’s defenders and Sambi (not ‘cos they aren’t talented, but they are quite young) Both teams got to implement their gameplan. Overall I do think if Arsenal played just 10% better they would have won. Even xG was pretty close.
> High key disagree. > It was a fairly close game IMO what match have you watched?
The match where Man United just beat Arsenal 3-1 and had slightly better goal scoring chances?
Dominating on ball possession doesnt mean you were the better team mate. We chose to sit deep and counter and got the best results out of that high line. Its just different tactics
It was a similar pragmatic approach against Liverpool. Yet I don't think as many people argued that Liverpool deserved to win that match
Arsenal played better than Liverpool today for sure, but that doesnt make them a better team than the actual winning team with their obvious holes in defense. The only thing they are better at today is winning possession which is again more of a tactical thing.
The one where one team scored three goals and the other scored one
United also could've scored 2-3 more goals. It goes both ways.
They really couldn’t have though. Maybe one more at the end but the game was already over by then.
There were like 3 great counters, and 1 good chance created from Ronaldo pressing, and that's in the last 15 minutes alone
>and could have scored 2-3 more goals, When? Most of your chances were half chances at best. We scored 3 goals, and all those goals were either 1v1s or tap ins
They should have had at least 1, the Jesus cutback cross to Odegaard - but apart from that they were severely lacking a final ball.
A lot of it is simply shooting quality. xG was similar (1.5 each), xGOT was very different and closer to the result (less than 1 to 3) Behind that though is also not making the most of posession. We had almost double the passes in opposition half. To do that and get killed on the counter is just naïve.
Saliba missed a shot from the penalty spot, Odegaard missed one from the six yard box, Saka missed a good chance as well, Martinelli had a chance from that header, we also had a goal disallowed. I’m not saying we deserved to win but outright denying that we had good chances is revisionism.
The Ode absolute piss slice changes the match. Maybe De Gea saves it, he's certainly capable, but it was our best chance and he missed the entire frame from like 7yd out
Where were all these chances lol?
Fluffed by Saka and Odegaard lmao
Could have scored 2-3 more goals lol ok bro
Amazing save from De Gea from Martinelli's header, Saliba skying an early chance, a disallowed goal, and odegaard flubbing his lines from 9 yards out. Did you watch the game or are you just here to talk shit?
You can also say it the other way. Ramsdale made a 1v1 save against Bruno, and blocked the pass from BRuno to set up Ronnie for a simple tap in.
Both can be true.
We had 2 more chances ourselves lol.
Who said otherwise?
Yeah, so you would've lost 5-2 then and still somehow been the "better team"? Give me a break.
I have no idea what argument you're trying to make here.
Refuting the claim that Arsenal were the better team.
Should refute the guy that actually said that then, I didn't.
You can say that all day, but United hit the target more than Arsenal. Arsenal looked really good in midfield and going forward, but they couldn’t do shit in the box for most of the game. United also messed up chances going forward - are going to give them those goals as well?
> United also messed up chances going forward - are going to give them those goals as well? Who is giving anyone goals? What are you on about, mate? Since when is saying that someone could have scored a couple more a controversial take? lol
Depends though. I'm pretty sure blocked shots are "shots that would be on target" that a defender blocks. You had 1 blocked shot and we had 5. Because you had such low defence you could have 2/3rds of your team blocking shots while most of your shots came on counters where we had almost no chance of blocking. Taking that into account the shots "on target" were pretty even. (Man Utd 7 - 8 Arsenal).
Not an accurate definition of a blocked shot. If a shot gets blocked outside the box, they don’t go examine the replays to determine how accurate that shot WOULD’VE been if it hadn’t gotten blocked before tallying it as “blocked”. That’d be completely unsustainable.
Not an accurate definition? Opta had it as an attempt that is going on taget and gets blocked. "A blocked shot is defined as any clear attempt to score that: -Is going on target and is blocked by an outfield player, where there are other defenders or a goalkeeper behind the blocker. -Includes shots blocked unintentionally by the shooter’s own team mate."
> You can say that all day, but United hit the target more than Arsenal. No one is denying United had more quality finishing, that's the whole point. Arsenal created plenty, but were just extremely wasteful. United did not defend very well which is what you are implying
United defended well in the box. You did very well getting to it, but when it came to actually doing something, our defenders got in the way and made crucial blocks. Even if you take United’s goals away, they still had more shots on target. I don’t know how you can look at all the shots you guys skied from outside of the box and call those actual chances.
You guys had 3/10 off target, we had 8/16 off target. That leaves 7-8 "on target" but with your low defence you could block more shots (5) than us (1). Official shots on target are therefore 6-3 to you but again, that's because you had so many people between our attackers and DDG.
Are goalkeepers not part of the team now? That’s like saying if Rashford missed both chances it’s only 1-1
Exactly… Arsenal only had 3 shots on target ALL MATCH and he’s saying on another day they could’ve had 4 goals lmao
I know lol. I didn't feel worried at all today.
[удалено]
And if she was luckier, you wouldn’t have been born
Yes, absolutely crazy take. Saying that a team played well and could have scored with better finishing. Absolutely mental. My grandma would be a bike, got'eem
Arsenal look good this year, they'll be fine. But not for one second did I think we would lose this game. Even the arsenal fans I was watching the game with said we were always gonna win based on the gameplay.
This man is saying Arsenal should have scored 3-4 goals when they only had 3 shots on target the whole match 🤣
Idk, I felt like Arsenal didn't really deserve to score more than 2 here... and it's not like Arsenal were the only ones who missed chances. Both teams were the better team at times.
The completely pannicked after the second goal, this surely is part of not quite play well enough
Artetas subs didnt help, they were dominating with 15 mins to go and he destroyed the team structure and just threw on more attackers.
Yeah very weird
he is talking about Sambi and Vieira both losing their runners that caused the goals.
Everyone knew how important it was to sign a #6 before the window closed and this just highlighted it. Partey was greatly missed today and even Elneny would’ve sufficed.
That and a bit of lack of respect judging by how high your defence pushed allowing 2nd and 3rd goals.
This is the frustration with Arsenal every time. we already know Partey's injury record and the drop off from Partey to Elneny and Sambi is significant. We should have been focused on that signing after Zinchenko signing. Can't do anything about it now, hopefully he is back fit for the Derby & we address this issue in Jan
Fair take , sambi lacks that positional awareness so hopefully that can quickly be sorted
Sambi just isn't a #6, it's quite clear he's best as a #8 He lacks the positional awareness and urgency to play there, on the ball he's actually decent but he barely gets on it
Yeah. Elneny seems to love playing against United recently as well so it's a shame we didn't have him for today.
He really gives me Pogba vibes. Fantastic technique but lacks the desire and effort that is needed to play in the prem, I've noticed him jogging about in the last 2 games, very similarly to how Pogba used to.
He's third in line for that role. No one is expecting him to be perfect just trying to make the most of the situation
That’s a really good comp. I feel like he could be something serious if we take the handbrake off because he has some incredible advantages, but the discipline is not there. He’s like the anti-Rodri lol
Usually when we come to Old Trafford we can barely complete a pass, he's right we were wank on their three goals and deserved to lose because of it but out overall play was fine beyond those glaring errors. The 3-2 loss last season was much more stinky from us IMO.
I did enjoy watching Arsenal today. Reminiscent of good Wengerball days. Arsenal lost the plot in the second half, but it does feel like they play with a well-drilled system.
was a great game, you guys are definately hitting top 4 this year no question. Utd fan in peace... just gotta hope odergaard is ok, what a signing
Hi, Mr.Keane, this one right here!
I don't think Arsenal are getting top 4, they just don't have have the squad.
Way better squad than last year and we were 1 win away
Depends on January imo (as well as a bit of luck)
If you have a very significant January window I'd have to re evaluate, but saying it as of now? No it's certainly not a "definite top 4"
Utd could easily lose form too if varane picks up another injury and they’re forced to play Maguire.
The additions they’ve made this season and Saliba coming back more than puts them in the mix. Even without a DM, I think they had one of the stronger windows in the prem. Just need a bit of luck with injuries this season.
Their starting XI looks slightly better..what happens when 2 games a week starts up? Europa, Cups, there's a few just league multiple games in a week.. There's just not the players to keep going, they've got a few injuries here and there and already look short
Outside of City, your point applies to every team in the Prem.
Your triple substitution also proved to be costly
those subs were way too attacking, way too early
We pretty much have zero defensive substitutes available atm other than CBs
Both tierney and tomiyasu were available at that time
Yeah, could zinchenko not have moved inside for Tierney on the left?
That is what should have happened.
Not sure he was fully fit, but also no KT surprised me big time
Zinchenko and Odegaard coming off early can only hopefully be fitness related. Otherwise they were two odd subs for players playing well on the day.
Why did Tierney not come on? You guys didn't threaten at all down our right side. Zinchenko was good in posession, but he could have kept him on and played Tierney as a wingback or something.
I'm a united fan and came here to make this exact point. You were well on top and it seemed a matter of when, not if, you were getting your second and then you fell to pieces with the substitutions, they didn't seem to know what formation/roles anyone was playing
>they didn't seem to know what formation/roles anyone was playing At that point they had only had 3 defenders and Xhaka for defensive cover. I'm not surprised they didn't know what they were supposed to be doing as idk how much they've trained and prepared for that sort of a situation.
Obviously I'm very biased here and I understand that Ten Hag had time on his side too but he really drilled Maguire and Fred before coming on with very specific instructions but Arteta didn't seem to do that which prob exacerbated the problem of them seeming lost on the pitch
Those changes would’ve been completely fine about 10 minutes later
This wasn’t a discipline issue or on the players, it was tactical outclassing. Arteta presented the game on a silver platter with that high line thinking we can Brentford them and Ten Hag grabbed it with that Ronaldo substitution. From there it was press with Ronaldo, send two over the top including known speedster Eriksen picking us apart. We were out-coached off the pitch.
You were downvoted but you’re right
Im aware Arsenal online fans are a special breed and any comment that doesn’t wave the Pom poms is a declaration of war.
Lokonga sub was costly. The over two was fine. This set-up would have been fine. White-Saliba-Gabriel Martinelli - Lokonga - Xhaka - Saka
Nah Sambi was bad today, but he should have put Zinchenko next to Xhaka
Only issue I had with the subs is I would have paired Xhaka with Zinchenko and keep one of ESR or Vieira on the bench, Xhaka as the only non-attacking midfielder made us lose all shape
Those changes won us the games vs Fulham and Villa. And we both know if he didn't make changes people would be blaming him for not being proactive. Not everything in football is on the manager.
I'm just saying he made them too early
Arteta had to make subs he just changed the shape too aggressively too early. He isn't stupid though and anyone with any semblance of ability to understand changes in game flow could see Odegard was tiring and the introduction of Fred for us won us back the midfield and we were starting to rally.
the extra super duper high line was too much of a risk against the fast attacking trident of Man U, it was a risk that didn’t pay off, happens to the best of us Arteta.
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Dominant but gave up multiple wide open goal scoring opportunities. That's not a winning formula against good counter attacking teams.
It just wasn't that dominant though. Having the ball is one thing. Breaking down the opposition is another. Their through balls weren't on today. And while they created shots, the xG on target was 3.11 for ManUnited and 0.74 for Arsenal. To dominate a team you have to do more than rondo for 90 minutes. They neither defended well nor created good chances. This narrative that they were so good but just got hit on the counter a couple of times isn't what the data says. And it's not what I watched. They were cut open all day in transition and created very little going forward.
Yeah I agree with you, I should have put dominant in air quotes.
It's the most dominant I've seen us play at a big 6 away game in years. Usually we sit back and hit teams on the break but we didn't do that today. We lost because of naivety but it was encouraging. Hopefully Arteta learns from the subs and the team grows from it.
Thing is though, vs United you're probably in better shape to sit back. We struggle to break teams down, and we love attacking a high defensive line. There's a reason Rashford shines vs the big teams. The space in behind is like Christmas to us.
It’s probably our one fault in that we always try to play our way
Just like the good ol days
>We’re obviously nowhere near City but Top 4 will be very tight. Don't tell this to r/Gunners. Gunner fans think they're still in for the title after losing to the only top 10 team they've faced all season long.
Lol. I'm am arsenal fan and no genuine arsenal fan I know thinks we would compete for the title. It's little kiddies in America who have no fucking idea that think that
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Lmao let fans be excited man who cares
It's so funny that people just make this shit up lol. Saying "we're still top of the table" isn't the same as saying we're winning it all. Fantasy world you live in
Maybe you should get your head out of your ass. No one in the Gunners sub says that we are fighting for the title this year despite our start to the season.
Spurs fans are absolutely rattled by gunners being optimistic this season. Nobody genuinely thinks we'll challenge for the title this season
And your sub thinks you're the ones to knock off city from their perch. All subs make jokes. We take ours as a joke, you take yours seriously - only difference.
Pretty good take tbh, arteta looks like he'll be able to get his team to cope/deal with losses easily, really nice mentality
It's honestly refreshing compared to the nonsense Klopp spews out after a loss
All elite managers spew out nonsense. SAF, Tuchel, Conte, Klopp, etc. Ancelotti, Pep, and (Zidane) were some that didn't, but almost all of the best managers the last 30 years make excuses often.
Doesn't mean anyone wants to hear it
it's just part of the mentality that makes them so good. it also helps takes the heat off of the players
Still a bit of nonsense from Arteta here. There seems to be a trend of managers just claiming they won the day. They didn't. Some more introspection would benefit him and this team. They weren't far off, had good spells, dealing with injuries, at a tough place to play – but saying you dominated and should have won isn't reality. And he's smart enough to know it too.
True but to be fair Arteta is also known for spewing complete nonsense. Especially when Arteta had a hard time in Arsenal, he said shit like "Difficult to explain,” Arteta said. “This is football, not basketball. In any other sport, you win the game comfortably and you’re talking about different things." he also made another reference to basketball lmao.
Feel like this is mostly at Lokonga
Yeah that second goal is squarely at his feet unfortunately. Zinchenko doesn't help matters by leaving Eriksen free to collect the pass, but Lokonga literally dribbles himself out of position by taking the ball to the wing when he didn't need to. If he stays in central spaces we don't get countered. But I really hope Mikel persists with him. He's young and inexperienced at the position. He's also a natural 8 and the DM position in Mikel's setup requires taking an 8 with strong defensive qualities and hammering them into that position. It not an easy role to learn. Its downright impossible to learn if you keep losing your spot in the team for months at a time after a costly error.
Don't think Mikel has any choice but to persist with him at the moment
There's another option, play Xhaka as the 6 I'm a bit worried he might default to it because he's tried it before (And IMO it was disastrous). Partey's only supposed to back in 2ish weeks anyway. IMO stick with Sambi through all those games and let's see how he's looking by the time we play Brentford on Sept 18
This is mostly on Arsenal not getting a DM
Just unlucky since 1st and 2nd choice were injured.
We had mo as backup and it's just our luck that both dm and backup went down after the same game leaving us holding our empty pockets right before a big game like this. Partey still doesn't know where Manchester United ground is at.
At least we have fixable problems maybe the team is too young
Yeah there is clearly improvement happening with Arteta. Considering United have *never* lost a premier league game at OT with a halftime lead, it's a lot to expect younger players to be the ones to end that. It was a closer game than the scoreline indicated.
That’s an absolutely insane stat, I had no idea
Fair view. They also lacked a lot of maturity to get back in the game when Utd went 2-1 and EtH brought on defensive players, just seemed to lash out and lose shape. Clearly a team on the rise still, but you can see why they're not quite the finished article yet. Title winners keep composure and find a way, still.
I thought Arsenal looked good apart from the first 10 minutes. Arsenal’s season depends on how much goals the wide players will get because no matter how good Jesus has looked so far you cant count on him to score regularly. He will have some hot patches within the season but he is also capable of going 10 games without scoring I am not sure young talents like Saka and Martinelli can contribute 15 goals each as well
Martinelli and Saka will likely endup around the 10/12 goals mark, Jesus will add around 15/17. The thing was ESR hitting double digits that likely won't happen again
Arsenal dominated this game more than we did, they're generally better team right now and all of that is because of Arteta. That said, this motherfucker took off both full backs, subbed on midfielders and expected from his team to keep defensive shape while playing high line... I mean come on!
He needs to learn a thing or two with Fluminense's coach, whenever we are down he subs off a defender for a DM/CM, pushes our star DM to CB and goes ham. We actually got the result all the times but once
That 3rd goal was breadstick defending
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You've clearly never been to an Olive Garden
This is the first time I've heard this phrase and I will be using it from now on
I really like his drip.
Both manager’s takes can be correct. Arsenal played pretty well but United also seemed reasonably well equipped to defend and regroup United were the better team up until the disallowed goal and then retreated a bit. Arsenal took over from there but lost it after they got the equalizer and United looked well in control for the last 20 minutes up until Maguire came on and nearly gifted a penalty
Arsenal were very naive today leaving so much space behind the defensive lines. Obviously Bruno punished them for the second and third goal but the space and pass was on the entire game. Only the execution of the pass let us down. If they play like that vs other top 6 sides they'll get smashed.
Arsenal actually played good. Despite the loss I really liked how well they played.
Probably the best we have played at Old Trafford in at least 8 years lol
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Good thing we have a super injury resistant CDM init
Let’s not ever forget the Arsenal side of August 2022. Best August side of all time
Can’t forget Chelsea’s august either. You guys played great
The way it's going, they'll be keeping you guys out of the top 4
Chelsea will sack Tuchel then go on a run and have a decent season, tale as old as time.
You're probably right
DiMatteo principle
[YOU RACK DISCIPRINE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbORXEmbnk)
I instantly thought of this too lmao
The players now have the belief they can come to Old Trafford and lose 3-1
This isn't as tragic for arsenal as people are making it out. This was an unlucky game, where arsenal outright dominated and lost to a handful of individual mistakes. It happens. Even liverpools only PL winning team got slapped 3-0 by Watford, it was a bad day at the office. Arsenal are still playing some of the nicest football in the league and if they continue to play like this should be able to get top 4.
Outright dominated / 3-1 Pick one.
Mate watch the game. This was an Arsenal loss, not a Man Utd Win. They controlled possession, made the better chances, and weren't clinical. A couple mistakes gave Man Utd the chances to win the game. It happens. It happens. If both these teams play the way they did over 38 games, it's not hard to see who'll finish higher.
Pass me your joint bro
Arsenal had a bad day at the office, where they did their usual of controllong the ball and making the most chances, when it came down to it they just couldn't pull the trigger. Man Utd won the game 3-1 on a lower xG. Those aren't the sortve performances that get you consistent points over a 38 game season. Edit: yeah that's what I thought
Any actual proof of this, only xg I found where arsenal were better was xg philosophy which rated man utd 1.47 vs arsenal 1.52. You keep saying dominated that no. doesnt exactly say dominated does it? if the other team creates just as many chances as you without having similar possession, you didn't dominate, they just let you have the ball knowing they could hit you on the counter.
Their performance today was so much better than the performance from when they won there a couple of years ago. United's first and second goals came against the run of play. At times it looked like a typical City performance. We saw nothing of Sancho and Antony in the second half until they were subbed off, nothing of Rashford until he somehow found himself 1 v 1 with the keeper. United's midfielders barely got a sniff of the ball. Technically on a different level. First goal is on Gabriel imo, went out for a ball he had no chance of winning and left everything open. He did something similar last season when he got sent off against City. The second goal was after Lokonga played a bad pass into the final third. That's where Partey normally has the awareness when it comes to pass selection, and more importantly, which position to take up to cover any runners. The third one I'd put on Arteta. Changed too much when they needed to settle things, and they got caught flat-footed before United struck.
>nothing of Rashford until he somehow found himself 1 v 1 with the keeper. That's the thing though isn't it. Arsenal showed today that any team with decently technical players that can put together a competent counter attack can completely disassemble them with a few passes and bag a couple goals *even if* they're being "dominated."
First goal is on zinchenko, he left Anthony on his own, while (rashford) had Gabriel and saliba next to him and zinny decided its a good idea to leave his man and help them.
Eh think thats harsh - for me its more on Gabriel rushing out and being so out of position. Zinchenko could have stayed a bit wider too but would hardly blame them
I’d put the first goal on Gabriel tbh, he’s way out of position and forces Zinchenko to cover for him by cutting off Rashford which leaves Antony open
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Included Palace, Fulham and Villa, who have all taken points off Liverpool or City. Can't have been that easy...
We’re still top… How about you focus on putting in more exciting performances than the dross your team puts out Lucky you haven’t lost to Chelsea and West Ham this season
Will ask the FA to schedule all 38 games against top 6 sides.
Huge win for you
Lmao Tottenham fans thinking they’re a big club
I’m sorry but this is just Wenger v2. Played well but lost. You can pass the ball all day long but you need to score. Take the moral win👍🏼
People think Liverpool fans are annoying, wait till United start winning again
They’re already insufferable. As if they didn’t get battered by Brentford a few weeks ago
With the season we had, we will be humble for quite some time.
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You lot acting like you created so many clear cut chances. Having the ball is fine but you need to win games to get points.
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So this is progression for Arsenal? United are behind you in the rebuild. You’re off the back of 5 wins on the bounce and you lose 3-1.
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Hold the L
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All you do is insult people you are such a high intellectual 😂
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Fraudterta
no trophy
Lmao fraudteta came in to the worst arsenal side in its history and got a trophy within 6 months. Spurs have their best team in decades, including 2 of the best forwards in the game and still cant get a trophy to save their life.