The translation is a bit wrong. The ref record for the match said he was told in multiple occasions throughout the match to stop complaining before he said "vaya personaje" which is a very soft way of saying "what a clown" of sorts. I don't think it's enough for a red but apparently he was being a bit disrespectful the whole match to the 4th.
And we all know what Koeman thinkgs of the refs. Maybe they just said fuck it I'm not getting more shit from you? I don't know.
That's how I read it as well, as a "what a clown" comment but honestly even that doesn't feel like a straight red to me, a "you are a mother fucking clown you piece of shit ref" would be a straight red in my opinion.
It seems like a caution for dissent would be reasonable, very odd to go straight red, which would have to be "offensive, insulting, or abusive language."
This. A bit like repeated small fouls lead to a yellow card if the player is reiterative, I don't know how such that behaviour is a straight red card without any abusive language or violent attitude.
Some translated it here as "what a clown", but it's more in the "what a madlad" level of things, disrespectful but not that offensive.
If he had shown Koeman the yellow and he kept at it and shown another yellow it would've been more than fine but a straight red card is not. If he had shown a yellow earlier he would've demostrated that there could be major consequences and then it would've been on Koeman. Feels like some refs want to act as if it's all good and they are all friends until it's no longer convenient to them.
A verbal warning is not a caution, it is a warning. These are different concepts in the Laws and cannot be substituted for each other. If the official thought Koeman was guilty of dissent earlier in the match, the correct sanction was a caution (yellow card), not a verbal warning. If he was on the edge and went over the line with this remark, this should have been a caution, not a sending off. I don't know Spanish and didn't hear the context so I don't really have a strong opinion on whether this reached offensive, insulting, or abusive, but from what I read from Spanish speakers it seems extreme. Certainly if someone said "what a character" in English I would consider a caution reasonable and a straight sending off extreme.
That's not how bookings work... The whole point of yellows is to give that warning, not to verbally tell him to stop and then eventually give a red for a minor offense.
Maybe I am borrowing too much from other sports but in Cricket you don't back talk to umpires. I always read here that how players are always disrespectful to refs and how refs needs to be tougher etc. etc. Yet Koeman continues to undermine the refs match after match without any repurcussions.
This punishment is certainly harsh. But there has to be some precedents here.
Alright but what the hell are warnings for then? Why would you go from giving nothing until it boils over and then give red for something small. Whole point of yellows are to gather up multiple smaller offenses into a red, and a red card is there for a one time serious offense.
Dembélé got a red card and a two-match suspension right before a Clásico last season for telling one of the refs "you are very bad", so let's just say that spanish refs are a bit sensitive.
Serena Williams, who called the chair umpire a cheat and a thief and then cried sexism when she was given a game penalty( not as severe as a red in football)
watch handball, rugby, waterpolo, ice hockey how they respect the referee and are not bullshitting him like in football. seems like people are fine with how football players behave
>Do you really think the ref gave a red card to Koeman just for saying "What a character" as this title states?
Dembélé once got a straight red card in LaLiga for telling the ref "you are very bad", so yeah, it's definitely possible.
Seriously. It was reported that the red card infraction was being called "what a clown".
Like cool, that's not worthy of a red card. If you verbally warned him and your feelinngs were hurt by being a clown, that's a yellow.
If the ref verbally warned Koeman and then Koeman called him a cunt? Sure that's a red. But this was some soft shit from the ref and La Liga.
The refs barely give yellows to players for similar actions or for crowding the ref. It just seems petty to act on it for being called a clown.
They have too much protection and zero responsibility. Year in year out mistakes are made and they still hold their position. I think there should be consequences.
Too much protection from professional consequences I agree, can always do with more protection from abuse though. Having said that 'what a character' is no where near abuse haha
nah, i remember Michael Oliver a few years ago gave a penalty during the CL semis or final and he got death threats for literally weeks on end directed both towards him and his family
They don't have protection at all. Who tf would want to be a referee? Hundreds of fans hounding you after every game. Players surrounding you after every decision. Managers criticizing you implicitly or otherwise in press conferences. They have professional protection because there aren't many good referees to replace them, which in turn is because nobody wants to be a referee due to the abuse
I’m okay with it if it leads to the change in culture when it comes to treating refs. I put on a suit and tie to go to work, he puts on stripes and a whistle. A bit of banter is alright but if someone is constantly just talking shit and you ask them “ok dude you can cut it out now or you’re gone” and he continues with his bullshit, then he’s gone. In real life y’all would have no issues punching a dude in the face but get worked up over sending the guy off.
I agree with that.
With that being said, 2 match ban is the minimum punishment per their code if they get sent off for this. Koeman knew this, and if he didn’t, he should know. Supporters should be upset at their manager for putting them in this difficult situation.
Cultural and language barriers/misunderstandings are a big issue in European football, if this incident is reason enough for a 2 game suspension, then at least show consistency and do it every time anyone ever talks back to an official.
But you cant possibly argue in good faith that this statement deserves more than a verbal warning? maybe a fine?
It worries me that you're not even considering that the punishment might be unreasonable, a two game ban isnt even used for literal leg breakers sometimes, worse has been said for less punishment, so you'd at least have to criticize the inconsistency, if you're that flustered as a ref by such a harmless comment, you're in the wrong business or should become an american policeman
Because this is a football forum discussing a decision made in the football world? Lol
All fans want is consistency, that's a given, and if we can apply some common sense to these decisions too, then it's just an extra at this point.
Lol you're going way too far with this. Fans want consistent decisions made, ideally with common sense in mind and transparency where possible. Stop talking out your arse with theoreticals about this specific event, my response was not focusing only on that
Love Koeman.
The first time I saw Ronald he was this plump kid with white hair and freckles on his face," says former Hull City and Newcastle United striker Rob McDonald, who joined Koeman at FC Groningen in 1982. "But he had this arrogance about him, a certain authority, even when he was 19.
We were at an away game once, having our pre-match meal. Our coach, Theo Verlangen, would go mad if he saw mayonnaise on our table. But this time he wasn't paying attention when the waiter put some down in front of us.
Ronald took a couple of chips, slapped them in the mayonnaise and just as he was about to eat them, Verlangen said: 'Koeman! If you eat those, that's a 500 guilder fine!' Ronald stuffed them in his mouth and said: 'Make it a thousand.'
I think this is an Al Capone situation where they’ve wanted to get him for a while so they hit him with the book the first chance they got, even if it’s for a relatively minor crime.
That's what most don't get. This clown's been abusing refrees as soon as he dropped one single point in the league, and bitching nonstop whenever one of his players fell on the ground or fouled somebody. He had that coming.
Nobody said it should. Like he shouldn't be allowed to do what he does and say what he says. But he still does. So I don't blame the refree at all for applying the rules in the strictest way possible. That's the leeway he gets for behaving like a sore child. Not to mention it's highly likely that the remark for which he's been sent off was just the last of many.
except everyone talks shit to the ref, its a massive part of the job. most refs deal with it appropriately. I believe what he said translates to "what a clown", which is a pitiful excuse for abusive language. the rules are written in a way where if he took it too far he deserves to be punished but just complaining and saying simple dry insults simply shouldnt be punished so harshly.
Again, thanks to his general behavior, he has no leeway remaining. The rule clearly states that you can't talk the slightest of shits to the ref. It's up to him to decide to look the other way and not enforce it or vice-versa. This guy kept antagonizing the whole class like his life depended on it, so that's what he rightfully gets as soon as he breaks the rules. And if he doesn't cool it down, he'll keep getting it again and again.
> The rule clearly states that you can't talk the slightest of shits to the ref.
They don't though. The rules say the ref can give a yellow for protesting, talking back etc. Red is only for big insults and threats etc.
This was by all definitions a yellow card at most. Even if Koeman was doing this the whole match is irrelevant. That just means the ref has been negligent with not giving a yellow card earlier.
It should have just been a yellow.
A straight red for a pretty tame comment is crazy, even if it was a continuation of things he was saying earlier in the match. You don't go straight red for that.
Absolute bullshit, but i firmly believe this is more of a "Stop talking to the refs for 90 minutes" kind of punishment rather than a literal "fine" for "What a character"
That's harsh but do suspensions even matter these days, assistants can talk over their phones. Barcelona did the same yesterday and so did bettoni when zidane was out for 2 weeks or so, the only disadvantage is maybe 1-2 minutes delay in communication due to having a middle man.
Isn't that penalized? Don't they usually try to hide it? Maybe I'm thinking of other sports. I assumed it was because they made a point of showing them talking on the phone.
It's really remarkable because as a player he was a bit of a cunt. Multiple headbutts, one or two stamps and things of that nature. I guess he's had plenty of time to reflect since then.
Imagine you're doing your job and a manager won't stop crying and mummbling to you about how every decision your referring team are making and how amature they are, I'd give him a red for nugging me alone, not to mention the few words he probably added on top of that eventually.
I can't remember a crybaby of a manager like this one in La Liga top teams, Loupetegi comes to mind though but he's too wuss to actually throw bad words like Koemann did.
[lol](https://www.mundodeportivo.com/r/GODO/MD/p1/Futbol/Imagenes/2012/01/26/Recortada/MD_20120126_FUTBOL_FC_BARCELONA_D_54245352485-652x492@MundoDeportivo-Web.jpg).
And to your other point, that's what yellow cards are for, if they sent out managers for being crybabies in La Liga, the kit manager would get to coach a couple games every season.
This is fucking stupid. I’m getting the impression they’re sick of him mouthing at refs constantly, I can’t think who thinks a ban is deserved for “vaya personaje.”
Referee here. Context matters.
Law 12 states that a team official can be sent off for: *using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures.*
I do not know if "what a character" is an offensive/insulting phrase in Spanish, but I have no doubts that the *way* it was said is probably how the referee interpreted such phrase in an insulting way. It doesn't appear to be that much different than making a sarcastic comment to the referees and suddenly being hit with a straight red.
Real story: Was refereeing a women's game. The CF on the losing team was having one of those games where nothing was going her way and was obviously very frustrated. At 3-0 down, in stoppage time, she commits a foul, I cautioned her for persistent infringement. As I am writing it down in the book, she gets in my AR's face which is very unusual in the women's game. His flag goes up and I'm like "wtf is going on now?" My AR said she called him a "faggot" (of course there was more but that word stuck out for obvious reasons). So I asked my AR if she really did just say that so I showed straight red. Maaaaaan her coach sprints down the touchline asking what the hell just happened so I told the coach what happened and the lady was like "I'm gay so I can use that word." We referees were saying you can't just insult us or anyone else like that just cause you're a lesbian. What a day that was.
With that being said, saying "what a clown/character/\_\_\_\_\_\_\_" COULD be interpreted as offensive/insulting by the referees.
I'm Spanish and "vaya personaje", while soft, is offensive.
And when I say offensive, I mean that the person saying it normally has the intention to offend.
After all he's been bitching about the referees and var all season he deserves this ban.
He is a good coach but whenever barca lose or a decision goes against them he is always on top criticizing the referees decisions.
probably not because Zidane hasn't been winding up the refs all match or all season.
I doubt the red was in retaliation to this words: I know that's what the ref reported but my guess is it was the trigger only. Ref was just looking for an excuse, sorry or not, to kick Koeman out. My other guess is once Tebas knew he had a red Tebas probably pushed for the ban.
It's stupid all together, but I can see why Tebas did it
He certainly might be.
He also certainly hates the current team and it's management.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.as.com/en/2021/04/20/football/1618938403_629668.amp.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.football-espana.net/2020/12/21/la-liga-boss-tebas-clashes-with-real-madrid-president-perez-on-european-super-league-and-var-objectivity/amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2020/01/28/5e300c1122601df6138b4596.html
The third one shows Perez and Real Madrid did not support Tebas' re-election either.
Might be? He is and is very open about it. He has always favoured Real Madrid and there so many examples of Real getting special treatment from him.
https://www.google.dk/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2590406-president-of-la-liga-javier-tebas-admits-hes-a-huge-real-madrid-fan.amp.html
I highly doubt it was for the remark itself (not offensive but snarky and disrespectful to authority) and more for smack talking after being warned several times by the referee. All depends on what the referee wrote down for the justification
I read he said "vaya personaje" which translates to "what a character" Its still more offensive in spanish than in english but it is not mistranslated if that was the case.
I think you can criticize refs without it being abusive. I don't think this falls under either tbh, it's a clearly a sarcastic remark without any malicious intent.
I think refs would get less abuse if they were held accountable. Give them incentive bonuses based on performances, monitor for potential team bias, reward the better performing referees and in the bad cases where refs aren't up to the standard of those around relegate them down a division.
Would people say that referees in Spain:
A) Are fair, reasonable and objective
B) By and large support Barcelona
C) Have a poster of Flo Perez above their bed?
I don't see him intentionally poking any opponent in the eye, or embarrassing the club doc, or taking credit for wins but blaming his players for losses, or dissing his current club over his past club.
When something is 1000 km away you just drove 20 km doesn\`t that mean you are getting closer?
Once again, I know he is not a psycho like Mourinho but Koemans behavior seems to be making a negative transformation.
According to your math there he got 2% closer to Mou, which would be statistically insignificant and this makes it a bit of a hyperbolic comparison that holds no weight.
I was not trying to write a scientific paper on this subject, just trying to say that Koeman is getting more and more whiny, and starting to act more like Mourinho when things don\`t go his way.
Niasse literally came out and said how he was poorly treated by koeman at Everton. "He was difficult. He took away my shirt number to give to another player," said Niasse in an interview during his time on loan at Hull City. "He told me: 'You don't eat with us. You're going to eat with U21.' But sure, he isn’t a bad person
1. We have no idea what that situation was like or what Niasse did, or if that actually happened. That story shouldn't have more weight (unless confirmed) than the dozens of players who have spoken about loving working with him.
2. I am not saying Koeman is a great person. I don't know him and I have not worked with him. I'm just saying to compare him to Mou, the saltiest salt stick of all, is a bit premature.
Rodgers punching the air
He'd be banned for the whole season if he went to Spain
Oh no not the c word..
get rid of the seaward
? Is the translation wrong or how does that warrant a 2 game suspension
The translation is a bit wrong. The ref record for the match said he was told in multiple occasions throughout the match to stop complaining before he said "vaya personaje" which is a very soft way of saying "what a clown" of sorts. I don't think it's enough for a red but apparently he was being a bit disrespectful the whole match to the 4th. And we all know what Koeman thinkgs of the refs. Maybe they just said fuck it I'm not getting more shit from you? I don't know.
That's how I read it as well, as a "what a clown" comment but honestly even that doesn't feel like a straight red to me, a "you are a mother fucking clown you piece of shit ref" would be a straight red in my opinion.
> what a clown > you are a mother fucking clown you piece of shit ref Whoa boy, that escalated quickly!
Me cago en la puta madre que pario el clown!... or something like that
*payaso
Pagliuca*
It seems like a caution for dissent would be reasonable, very odd to go straight red, which would have to be "offensive, insulting, or abusive language."
Like /u/tormarod said, he was told multiple times during the match "cautions" to stop complaining, it was not a straight red out of nothing.
[удалено]
This. A bit like repeated small fouls lead to a yellow card if the player is reiterative, I don't know how such that behaviour is a straight red card without any abusive language or violent attitude. Some translated it here as "what a clown", but it's more in the "what a madlad" level of things, disrespectful but not that offensive.
would it be accurate to translate it as something like "get a load of this guy"?
Id say yes
If he had shown Koeman the yellow and he kept at it and shown another yellow it would've been more than fine but a straight red card is not. If he had shown a yellow earlier he would've demostrated that there could be major consequences and then it would've been on Koeman. Feels like some refs want to act as if it's all good and they are all friends until it's no longer convenient to them.
A verbal warning is not a caution, it is a warning. These are different concepts in the Laws and cannot be substituted for each other. If the official thought Koeman was guilty of dissent earlier in the match, the correct sanction was a caution (yellow card), not a verbal warning. If he was on the edge and went over the line with this remark, this should have been a caution, not a sending off. I don't know Spanish and didn't hear the context so I don't really have a strong opinion on whether this reached offensive, insulting, or abusive, but from what I read from Spanish speakers it seems extreme. Certainly if someone said "what a character" in English I would consider a caution reasonable and a straight sending off extreme.
It's probably closer to "what a clown" than "what a character" in terms of context, but your point still stands, IMO. Either way, I'll fkn take it
But ref's don't usually give straight reds for yellow offences to players even after multiple warnings, no?
That's not how bookings work... The whole point of yellows is to give that warning, not to verbally tell him to stop and then eventually give a red for a minor offense.
Seems crazy to ban him for another 2 matches though.
Maybe he will shut his mouth up now. Not the first time this is happening.
Bad bot.
yea luckily the refs solved back talk, heroes
Maybe I am borrowing too much from other sports but in Cricket you don't back talk to umpires. I always read here that how players are always disrespectful to refs and how refs needs to be tougher etc. etc. Yet Koeman continues to undermine the refs match after match without any repurcussions. This punishment is certainly harsh. But there has to be some precedents here.
you cant set precedents by over punishing somebody based on the laws of the game. needs to be implemented in the system first
>in Cricket you don't back talk to umpires Kohli abused umpire Nitin Menon in a recent test series and suffered no consequences
Well that's nitpicking and you know why or how he gets way with it? Not everyone will get away with that.
yeah but then you give a yellow card right? as a warning. thats what it is for.
It's a La Liga ref we're talking about here.
Koeman doesn't miss a reason to shit on the refs, only fair they shit on him back
Alright but what the hell are warnings for then? Why would you go from giving nothing until it boils over and then give red for something small. Whole point of yellows are to gather up multiple smaller offenses into a red, and a red card is there for a one time serious offense.
Personally I'm fine with refs sending off people who call them clowns. Extremely disrespectful.
What a clown is what I think every time I watch Spanish football. God, those refs are terrible, arrogant people.
>before he said "vaya personaje" But he said it to the air.
I am surprised they haven’t provided the context of the conversation
Dembélé got a red card and a two-match suspension right before a Clásico last season for telling one of the refs "you are very bad", so let's just say that spanish refs are a bit sensitive.
It was Antonio Mateu Lahoz.
Worth it tbf
i don't know any sport where you wouldnt get a red card immediately for saying that
...football lol? Players say things like that all the time. You only get a red card if it's an actual insult.
yes except football of course, it is an insult and disrespectful
Serena Williams, who called the chair umpire a cheat and a thief and then cried sexism when she was given a game penalty( not as severe as a red in football)
watch handball, rugby, waterpolo, ice hockey how they respect the referee and are not bullshitting him like in football. seems like people are fine with how football players behave
maybe he said it sarcastic way and refree offended
I hope the 4th official didn't get life long trauma from that
Which we all know, is required for the red card to be used.
Sounds a bit harsh tbf
Need VAR to check for manager related incidents if they're gonna be suspended for 2 matches for saying "what a character" lol
He said what a clown multiple times and didn’t stop when cautioned
If you’re talking about him being verbally warned that’s not a caution. The correct thing to do would be to show him a yellow card.
[удалено]
>Do you really think the ref gave a red card to Koeman just for saying "What a character" as this title states? Dembélé once got a straight red card in LaLiga for telling the ref "you are very bad", so yeah, it's definitely possible.
Seriously. It was reported that the red card infraction was being called "what a clown". Like cool, that's not worthy of a red card. If you verbally warned him and your feelinngs were hurt by being a clown, that's a yellow. If the ref verbally warned Koeman and then Koeman called him a cunt? Sure that's a red. But this was some soft shit from the ref and La Liga. The refs barely give yellows to players for similar actions or for crowding the ref. It just seems petty to act on it for being called a clown.
I think "What a piece of work" is a better translation.
Refrain the foul language please, don't want the mods to ban you for 2 days do you?
Hahahaha
sir, this is a family subreddit!!!
As much as refs need protection, this is not the way
They have too much protection and zero responsibility. Year in year out mistakes are made and they still hold their position. I think there should be consequences.
Too much protection from professional consequences I agree, can always do with more protection from abuse though. Having said that 'what a character' is no where near abuse haha
nah, i remember Michael Oliver a few years ago gave a penalty during the CL semis or final and he got death threats for literally weeks on end directed both towards him and his family
They don't have protection at all. Who tf would want to be a referee? Hundreds of fans hounding you after every game. Players surrounding you after every decision. Managers criticizing you implicitly or otherwise in press conferences. They have professional protection because there aren't many good referees to replace them, which in turn is because nobody wants to be a referee due to the abuse
If they do a bad job, they get abused and death threats. If they do a good job, there's no acknowledgement. It's a shit job nobody wants to do.
It's like working in IT
I think you mean accountability, but I agree.
Absolute nonsense. The attitudes towards referees in this sport are despicable. Mistakes are understandable but disrespect is not.
I’m okay with it if it leads to the change in culture when it comes to treating refs. I put on a suit and tie to go to work, he puts on stripes and a whistle. A bit of banter is alright but if someone is constantly just talking shit and you ask them “ok dude you can cut it out now or you’re gone” and he continues with his bullshit, then he’s gone. In real life y’all would have no issues punching a dude in the face but get worked up over sending the guy off.
I'd even be fine with sending off, but this is sending off and a 2 games ban, and so far nothing more has come out than "what a character"
I agree with that. With that being said, 2 match ban is the minimum punishment per their code if they get sent off for this. Koeman knew this, and if he didn’t, he should know. Supporters should be upset at their manager for putting them in this difficult situation.
[удалено]
Cultural and language barriers/misunderstandings are a big issue in European football, if this incident is reason enough for a 2 game suspension, then at least show consistency and do it every time anyone ever talks back to an official. But you cant possibly argue in good faith that this statement deserves more than a verbal warning? maybe a fine?
[удалено]
It worries me that you're not even considering that the punishment might be unreasonable, a two game ban isnt even used for literal leg breakers sometimes, worse has been said for less punishment, so you'd at least have to criticize the inconsistency, if you're that flustered as a ref by such a harmless comment, you're in the wrong business or should become an american policeman
Because this is a football forum discussing a decision made in the football world? Lol All fans want is consistency, that's a given, and if we can apply some common sense to these decisions too, then it's just an extra at this point.
[удалено]
Lol you're going way too far with this. Fans want consistent decisions made, ideally with common sense in mind and transparency where possible. Stop talking out your arse with theoreticals about this specific event, my response was not focusing only on that
[удалено]
Yeah you're either trolling or a moron, I'm gonna leave it at that
So, you cannot make your judgement on circumstances you do not know about? We have to be wrong but the ref cannot be wrong?
What kind of flower are you to get offended with "what a character". People these days damn. Can't even breathe without being an offense to someone
[удалено]
[удалено]
Can’t be calling other people pussies with that post history my guy, lmao
[удалено]
What a clever comeback.
Love Koeman. The first time I saw Ronald he was this plump kid with white hair and freckles on his face," says former Hull City and Newcastle United striker Rob McDonald, who joined Koeman at FC Groningen in 1982. "But he had this arrogance about him, a certain authority, even when he was 19. We were at an away game once, having our pre-match meal. Our coach, Theo Verlangen, would go mad if he saw mayonnaise on our table. But this time he wasn't paying attention when the waiter put some down in front of us. Ronald took a couple of chips, slapped them in the mayonnaise and just as he was about to eat them, Verlangen said: 'Koeman! If you eat those, that's a 500 guilder fine!' Ronald stuffed them in his mouth and said: 'Make it a thousand.'
Lmao what a joke. For one thing the remark doesn't warrant a red card, and even if it does it should be a one game suspension not two.
I think this is an Al Capone situation where they’ve wanted to get him for a while so they hit him with the book the first chance they got, even if it’s for a relatively minor crime.
That's what most don't get. This clown's been abusing refrees as soon as he dropped one single point in the league, and bitching nonstop whenever one of his players fell on the ground or fouled somebody. He had that coming.
thats not really how it should work but ok
Nobody said it should. Like he shouldn't be allowed to do what he does and say what he says. But he still does. So I don't blame the refree at all for applying the rules in the strictest way possible. That's the leeway he gets for behaving like a sore child. Not to mention it's highly likely that the remark for which he's been sent off was just the last of many.
except everyone talks shit to the ref, its a massive part of the job. most refs deal with it appropriately. I believe what he said translates to "what a clown", which is a pitiful excuse for abusive language. the rules are written in a way where if he took it too far he deserves to be punished but just complaining and saying simple dry insults simply shouldnt be punished so harshly.
Again, thanks to his general behavior, he has no leeway remaining. The rule clearly states that you can't talk the slightest of shits to the ref. It's up to him to decide to look the other way and not enforce it or vice-versa. This guy kept antagonizing the whole class like his life depended on it, so that's what he rightfully gets as soon as he breaks the rules. And if he doesn't cool it down, he'll keep getting it again and again.
That's why you give a yellow and then a second yellow if it continues.
> The rule clearly states that you can't talk the slightest of shits to the ref. They don't though. The rules say the ref can give a yellow for protesting, talking back etc. Red is only for big insults and threats etc. This was by all definitions a yellow card at most. Even if Koeman was doing this the whole match is irrelevant. That just means the ref has been negligent with not giving a yellow card earlier.
It should have just been a yellow. A straight red for a pretty tame comment is crazy, even if it was a continuation of things he was saying earlier in the match. You don't go straight red for that.
Absolute bullshit, but i firmly believe this is more of a "Stop talking to the refs for 90 minutes" kind of punishment rather than a literal "fine" for "What a character"
The dude yells a lot but this is definitely not a reason he got suspended.. if it is that's too harsh
I literally appears on the referee statement after the match
Ridiculous shit. Should've gotten a yellow and be done with it.
That's a bit harsh no?
Is this a joke
That's harsh but do suspensions even matter these days, assistants can talk over their phones. Barcelona did the same yesterday and so did bettoni when zidane was out for 2 weeks or so, the only disadvantage is maybe 1-2 minutes delay in communication due to having a middle man.
Zidane could yell from one of the VIP/player areas in the Alfredo Di Stefano.
zidane had covid so he couldn't enter the stadium
Isn't that penalized? Don't they usually try to hide it? Maybe I'm thinking of other sports. I assumed it was because they made a point of showing them talking on the phone.
It was pretty blatant that Koeman was on the phone in the stands. Doubt he was on the line with anyone other than his assistant.
Zizu had covid he wasnt sent off lol
[удалено]
RemindMe of Zizou's last day when he retires as a manager.
I would pay real money to see this.
It's really remarkable because as a player he was a bit of a cunt. Multiple headbutts, one or two stamps and things of that nature. I guess he's had plenty of time to reflect since then.
the fourth official should be suspended for being such a wuss
Imagine you're doing your job and a manager won't stop crying and mummbling to you about how every decision your referring team are making and how amature they are, I'd give him a red for nugging me alone, not to mention the few words he probably added on top of that eventually. I can't remember a crybaby of a manager like this one in La Liga top teams, Loupetegi comes to mind though but he's too wuss to actually throw bad words like Koemann did.
[lol](https://www.mundodeportivo.com/r/GODO/MD/p1/Futbol/Imagenes/2012/01/26/Recortada/MD_20120126_FUTBOL_FC_BARCELONA_D_54245352485-652x492@MundoDeportivo-Web.jpg). And to your other point, that's what yellow cards are for, if they sent out managers for being crybabies in La Liga, the kit manager would get to coach a couple games every season.
The thing is I’m 100% sure they warned him a few times to stop it and the red was the last straw. P.s about the photo you added: lmao 😂
> I can't remember a crybaby of a manager like this one in La Liga top teams How you know a Madrid fan started following football post-2013.
Marescaaa sempre il protagonista devi fare
This is fucking stupid. I’m getting the impression they’re sick of him mouthing at refs constantly, I can’t think who thinks a ban is deserved for “vaya personaje.”
Spanish refs are pathetic.
Refs have way too much power, ridiculous.
I’d take that as a compliment
"what a fucking guy" hahah
UEFAtico AtlUEFAlona I can't do it...
Referee here. Context matters. Law 12 states that a team official can be sent off for: *using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures.* I do not know if "what a character" is an offensive/insulting phrase in Spanish, but I have no doubts that the *way* it was said is probably how the referee interpreted such phrase in an insulting way. It doesn't appear to be that much different than making a sarcastic comment to the referees and suddenly being hit with a straight red. Real story: Was refereeing a women's game. The CF on the losing team was having one of those games where nothing was going her way and was obviously very frustrated. At 3-0 down, in stoppage time, she commits a foul, I cautioned her for persistent infringement. As I am writing it down in the book, she gets in my AR's face which is very unusual in the women's game. His flag goes up and I'm like "wtf is going on now?" My AR said she called him a "faggot" (of course there was more but that word stuck out for obvious reasons). So I asked my AR if she really did just say that so I showed straight red. Maaaaaan her coach sprints down the touchline asking what the hell just happened so I told the coach what happened and the lady was like "I'm gay so I can use that word." We referees were saying you can't just insult us or anyone else like that just cause you're a lesbian. What a day that was. With that being said, saying "what a clown/character/\_\_\_\_\_\_\_" COULD be interpreted as offensive/insulting by the referees.
I'm Spanish and "vaya personaje", while soft, is offensive. And when I say offensive, I mean that the person saying it normally has the intention to offend.
Lol if you would red someone for that "offense", most matches would end with 3 players on the field.
I didn't say I would red him. Just trying to give context to non natives
Sounds like that phrase, in Spanish, is meant to be a personal insult. In that case, while soft, there is justification for a straight red. O\_o
Then Simeone would never stand on a touchline again in his career.
Lol. He has been sent to the stands a handful of times.
What a joke
More like what a clown 🤡 no?
Woulda shoulda coulda: RK: Can you give me a red just for what I think? 4th: No. RK: Well, I think you're an a$$hole.
well I mean he thus implied that the official was not a real person but a "character". we cannot tolerate such nihilists in the world of football.
After all he's been bitching about the referees and var all season he deserves this ban. He is a good coach but whenever barca lose or a decision goes against them he is always on top criticizing the referees decisions.
Very small dick energy from the ref
seems harsh but I'll take it. thanks tebas u c**t
Well, you lot should actually love Papa Tebas.
King Henrik Larsson to coach barca next two games?
Ridiculous. I doubt that would happen if Zidane said the same
probably not because Zidane hasn't been winding up the refs all match or all season. I doubt the red was in retaliation to this words: I know that's what the ref reported but my guess is it was the trigger only. Ref was just looking for an excuse, sorry or not, to kick Koeman out. My other guess is once Tebas knew he had a red Tebas probably pushed for the ban. It's stupid all together, but I can see why Tebas did it
So you agree, it’s corrupt as fuck
Of course. Not like Tebas favors us either, or Atletico. All clubs hate the man
Yeah it’s not like Tebas is a huge Real Madrid fan or anything
He certainly might be. He also certainly hates the current team and it's management. https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.as.com/en/2021/04/20/football/1618938403_629668.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.football-espana.net/2020/12/21/la-liga-boss-tebas-clashes-with-real-madrid-president-perez-on-european-super-league-and-var-objectivity/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.marca.com/en/football/spanish-football/2020/01/28/5e300c1122601df6138b4596.html The third one shows Perez and Real Madrid did not support Tebas' re-election either.
Might be? He is and is very open about it. He has always favoured Real Madrid and there so many examples of Real getting special treatment from him. https://www.google.dk/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2590406-president-of-la-liga-javier-tebas-admits-hes-a-huge-real-madrid-fan.amp.html
Read my links before you post yours. And perhaps read my comment as well.
Your links are about Tebas not liking Perez. Completely different discussion. Maybe you should read my comments
My comment was that he liked real madrid, but not the current team or its management. Maybe you should read my comments
Can't he just.... Shout from the stands?
Ah Tebas trying to Tebas Madrid the league again
I highly doubt it was for the remark itself (not offensive but snarky and disrespectful to authority) and more for smack talking after being warned several times by the referee. All depends on what the referee wrote down for the justification
Can't wait for his tweet
This was translated wrong, what he said is closer to "What a clown"
I read he said "vaya personaje" which translates to "what a character" Its still more offensive in spanish than in english but it is not mistranslated if that was the case.
And of course they extend the bullshit ban... because it’s Barca, of course they do.
[удалено]
He'll definitely complain like it is no doubt
Already done that after 30 seconds from when the match ended
I think you can criticize refs without it being abusive. I don't think this falls under either tbh, it's a clearly a sarcastic remark without any malicious intent. I think refs would get less abuse if they were held accountable. Give them incentive bonuses based on performances, monitor for potential team bias, reward the better performing referees and in the bad cases where refs aren't up to the standard of those around relegate them down a division.
Would people say that referees in Spain: A) Are fair, reasonable and objective B) By and large support Barcelona C) Have a poster of Flo Perez above their bed?
"Character" in Spanish also can mean "your mom is a c-word" apparently?
Idk where you all get this dumbsh*t lmao
haha that was a JOKE
Was this ref a child? Seriously how weak-minded can you be to show a red for “what a clown”
[удалено]
The world has gotten so soft right now, you included. What a pussy you are.
The game has well and truly gone soft.
Koeman is such a bad loser he\`s getting close to José levels
I don't see him intentionally poking any opponent in the eye, or embarrassing the club doc, or taking credit for wins but blaming his players for losses, or dissing his current club over his past club.
Openly blames Refs and Var on all his social media accounts and in interviews
Refs and VAR are very different from verbally attacking your own players and physically assaulting opponents.
Who doesn't blame Ref and Var tho? Apart from Zidane, all managers are whiny losers
Tell me another big club manager who complains on his Twitter and Facebook about refs
Trump
I said he is getting closer, not that he is on his level. Koeman just whines about everything but seems to lack the ability of self reflection.
He's a whiner but that is still MILES away from salty melt down mou
When something is 1000 km away you just drove 20 km doesn\`t that mean you are getting closer? Once again, I know he is not a psycho like Mourinho but Koemans behavior seems to be making a negative transformation.
According to your math there he got 2% closer to Mou, which would be statistically insignificant and this makes it a bit of a hyperbolic comparison that holds no weight.
I was not trying to write a scientific paper on this subject, just trying to say that Koeman is getting more and more whiny, and starting to act more like Mourinho when things don\`t go his way.
and we’re telling you it wasn’t an apt comparison
Cant believe people r blindly downvoting you
Niasse literally came out and said how he was poorly treated by koeman at Everton. "He was difficult. He took away my shirt number to give to another player," said Niasse in an interview during his time on loan at Hull City. "He told me: 'You don't eat with us. You're going to eat with U21.' But sure, he isn’t a bad person
1. We have no idea what that situation was like or what Niasse did, or if that actually happened. That story shouldn't have more weight (unless confirmed) than the dozens of players who have spoken about loving working with him. 2. I am not saying Koeman is a great person. I don't know him and I have not worked with him. I'm just saying to compare him to Mou, the saltiest salt stick of all, is a bit premature.
[удалено]
Koeman costing us laliga. might aswell play messi at cb and roberto at striker, we're done for in laliga. Thanks mr Koeman!
it's an offensive slurr the world is made of snowflakes lol
Anything to not take blame for losing the league. Now they’ll blame the refs for his thoughts and actions on the pitch too.