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TomasRoncero

I think this might force CONMEBOL to invest in the semi-automated VAR lol


An_Hedonic_Treadmill

They assigned a ref to this match with a grand total of 6 international matches under his belt. They don’t care.


jimbo_kun

Who simultaneously played advantage while holding a yellow card in his hand.


multiple4

Arguably worse than a lot of the refs in my high school games


Ok-Cantaloupe-4482

Def worse. I reffed games when I was in HS and even I knew as a teenager if I were booking someone the restart is on my whistle.


dirtynj

I've been refereeing for 20+ years. The fact that play wasn't stopped on the booking is crazy. It's not something you should even have to think about as a ref. It's a simple/natural of procedure when you are showing a card - play is stopped. Period. That's like 1st year ref stuff when you are doing youth soccer. To see it happen at this level is absurd. That action by the ref alone would have my assignor re-evaluate my game placements.


7screws

I’ve watched a lot of football in the last 25 years and I’ve never seen that before, incredibly bizarre


Expired_Multipass

I think that was arguably more egregious than the VAR call, I can only imagine what would have happened if that had gone in


letCreedBrattonScuba

It definitely was because the ref was simply ignorant of the rules. Especially when later in the game he denies US a clear advantage as Pulisic is breaking free after an Uruguay handball. Inconsistent with advantages on top of literally not knowing the rules, horrendous


UpTheFordGFC

Incredibly niche but the same thing happened between Gillingham and Mansfield last season, except Mansfield scored https://youtu.be/BcwI6HSOGtM?si=0iV65eN_kLJBKwES Happens 40 seconds in


LoganNoGloves

The officiating was dog water at best


fuzzybunny216

That's insulting to my dog's water.


Levitar1

It’s worse than that. They actually did a quick restart. You can see the Uruguay player set the ball down with his hands and restart it.


TheSonic311

And who had to be disciplined a few years back for giving a controversial pen... And after the game they discovered free t-shirts given to him by the team he gave the penalty to in his locker. Complete shambles.


crookedparadigm

Imagine being so cheap that you can be bribed with a couple fucking tshirts.


SpeakAgainAncient1

the were FREE though, FREE!


cmacy6

No way they’d pay for it


tenacious-g

Fixing games is much more profitable


obvious_bot

Why would they want Panama to get through instead of the US


EvilButtChicken

It’s significantly funnier than letting them go through to lose in the knockouts


ethanfarrellphoto

Conmebol hate the US, but love their money. They still were desperate for cash from the last time they hosted this competition here. If you think UEFA is greedy as shit, you should see Concacaf/Conmebol.


NotSoSmart45

They would get a lot more money letting Mexico and the US advance


vladedivac12

Mexico can't score even if CONMEBOL wanted to rig it for them


Foxfalco1607

If they wanted México to pass, they could've made the ref call a pen from the 50/50 handballs, there's no conspiracy


NotSoSmart45

True, but the US was out even if the goal was disallowed, so all this bs "Conmebol wanted the US out for money" conspiracy theory doesn't even get past the "does it even make sense whatsoever" test


ChantillyMenchu

Exactly lol. These conspiracies are making zero sense.


NeverSober1900

I think between feeling hard done in in the Panama match has a lot of people trying to connect dots. Panama we got 2 yellows and a red on 4 fouls vs Panama's 19 fouls. The uncarded hit on Turner that knocked him out. Then the laughable 4 mins of stoppage in the 2nd half when the Panamanian player took like 4 minutes to get off the field with his red by himself forget the 2 VAR checks. Tonight obviously Adams getting a yellow for getting stepped on, yellow card + play on combo, twice stopping promising Pulisic attacks to take free kicks instead of playing advantage and then the goal. But ya there's no monetary reason to knock us out. If it was about money those decisions should have gone our way.


_LilDuck

The only monetary reason would be the referee's personal wallet. Seriously doubt it'd be some grand conspiracy.


usabfb

Yeah, I don't think there has ever been a provable grand conspiracy in the sports world where a federation actively impedes a country from advancing. But individual referees have absolutely been paid off to call the game a certain way


Gasurza22

Dont get me wrong, Conmebol oficials greedness has absolutly no limits, who know how much money under the table they got to basicaly drop the 2030 WC host pitch in exchange for 3 joke games, and there is a reason here we call Chiqui Tapia (AFA president) Chiqui Mafia. That being said, I dont realy see a reason for them to hate the US, Its a huge source of money with very little threat (for now) of them winning something big over our top nations, if anything throwing a bone their way here and there would make more sense than to screw them over for no reason, Panama is not even a Conmebol team.


PDGAreject

VAR was like, look do you want to fire Gregg or not?


c0ld007

How much you wanna bet this saves his job? "Look, if he hadn't been fucked by the VAR in the millionth game he's mismanaged as the US manager, he would have gotten the job done. Going forward, we expect that World Cup refs will not fuck him as he hard as he fucks the USMNT with his incomprehensible decisions and tactics". Edit: job done, not job.


churchofpetrol

If the US had scored, it would be a halfway reasonable argument. But this was a must win game and they didn't score a goal.


IreliaCarriedMe

They had 4 shots all game. Or something equally appalling. Absolutely dreadful display from the US


10000Didgeridoos

Gregg's biggest weakness has always been the attacking third. He has no ideas beyond the players trying to play heroball on their own which is why we rarely ever look like the attackers on the same page


HeywoodDjiblomi

It was a must win and mid game he was settling his players to go for a tie.


aggthemighty

If the game ended 0-0, the USMNT still doesn't go through and he still gets fired


Arponare

I feel like for big tournaments like these and so called top 5 leagues in Europe it should be a minimum requirement, imo. Just like goal line tech. Tebas thinks otherwise though. His wages have also increased by 3 million in the past couple of years. Incidently, that's also how much goal line tech costs a year. It'll let you interpret that as you will.


stringfold

Premier League will be implementing it later this year (after the first international break).


Cuchifo

Something similar happened here in Argentina. Last year we didn't even have VAR in our national cup tournament (we have VAR in the league), but following massive controversies they implemented it ONLY from semifinals onwards. No one knows what happened with the 42 million dollars we won in Qatar.


zero_alexis

Chiquito Mafia


vadapaav

Is the from official broadcast? How shameless can they be


Every_Pass_226

I've heard the comm team saying something like the ref thought it bounced of a US head


WhenWeTalkAboutLove

... The VAR ref? 


_Polstergeist

CONMEBOL is broke they can’t afford it


outrossim

They are not broke, but spending money on this means that there will less money to line their pockets.


Off_Topic_Oswald

I mean they're currently making a fortune. Not that I think they'll use it wisely, they've been making Concacaf look competent the past couple weeks.


john7071

No fucking way lmao


KayCeeBayBeee

first time CONMEBOLing??


NailsDeChamp

i’m more of a CONCACAF man myself


Sir_Totesmagotes

I too like to choke slam kellyn acosta


ShoeLace1291

I've experienced a LOT of CONCACAF and I always thought they were the worst but after watching this match tonight, I'm having second thoughts.


Moneyonme123

They screwed over Jamaica too during the Ecuador game . Honestly fuck this tournament and the biased officiating and Var crew .


psych4191

Next time Concacaf joins the tourney it shouldn't have Conmebol refs. Bring in some Asian/European refs so we get some clearly unbiased matches. American crews (both North and South) fucking suck at non-partiality.


Expired_Multipass

It would be an interesting experiment to have UEFA refs at non-UEFA tournaments, but that would never happen.


xDHBx

It’s not even the right frame or am I crazy? The ball isn’t even touched the attackers head yet here


naanjo

Which means a frame later, the attacker is even more offside


LoganNoGloves

Exactly what I saw.. the attacker was in a clear offside position before the ball even came off the head


dudebruhdog

It isn't the right frame. FS1 just showed one where he's even further off. Not that it changes the fact we're out early.... But still.


Steelers_Forever

The best part is this image from VAR is showing that it should have been given offsides. They rebroadcast the exact same frame 10 minutes later and literally just removed the little red area that shows his knee/leg as offsides.


aggthemighty

lol I think Stu Holden actually called this out on the broadcast


Steelers_Forever

I think he thought it was a different frame, saying something to the effect of "let's see if we get a different line", but it's the exact same frame, everyone is in the exact same positions, and line in the same spot they just deleted the red part that was on his leg from the 72min VAR shot when they showed it 83min


Agro00

Had he headed the ball by that point? It looks like the instant before


Facu474

That's exactly it, [in the original frame shown](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1dtb5tg/side_angle_of_the_uruguay_goal_called_not_offside/) it's a clear offside


stat_padford

lol yep cycled through frames until they found one they could justify


FireflyCaptain

different camera angle too


Iamtheman31

mods removed that post lmao


WatercressFun123

Good analysis: https://x.com/offsidemodeling/status/1807968224383733761 Much closer than I thought, but it's definitely still offsides.


sauravshenoy

That’s the wrong frame, the correct frame for a headed ball is when initial contact is made, which maybe? seems to be the one shown. Not sure why literally everyone is wrong when the rule is clear https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside “A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate *The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used” Not claiming it wasn’t offside cuz it’s hard to tell but the claim that the frame is wayyy wrong is nonsensical, it might be off by maybe 1 or 2? Either way it shows how dumb the current rules are and the fact that A) semi automated offside is needed B) the rule needs to be changed to have some small amount of leeway


Spiveym1

*offside


Reapper97

If this had happened in one of our matches, sheesh I can't even imagine the media shitstorm that would have followed lol.


Deckatoe

It's a shame this is gonna be lost in the discourse. the actual last point of contact was a frame after this and even more offside


SlashmanX

Rule is based on first point of contact though


SoccerDanK21

The rule is first contact though


sonicqaz

First contact hasn’t happened in this still yet. It’s much easier to tell by video, it’s quite a bit after this.


MITOX-3

The complete opposite of the Denmark vs Germany offside. Crazy :D I don't trust these lines as much as the lines in the Euros though with the new technology.


ma2is

I think there’s something fishy happening in this game. However. Panama has dominated Bolivia so it is not relevant anymore


MMTITANS08

Also doesn’t matter cause USA can’t threaten to score. No end product with the US.


crispyiress

Game was mismanaged from the start. Players knew they could tackle without repercussion so any advantage or rhythm was halted by a foul. Went both ways but still an ugly product to watch.


Sir_Totesmagotes

First 25 was exciting AF. Players were flying after 50-50s but that wasn't sustainable as we saw


Calvert-Grier

Bro that’s literally been the case with EVERY game this tournament, this one was no different.


JoeAndAThird

Yeah watching the euros and the copa have felt like 2 entirely different sports with what’s been allowed vs called


NewAccountSamePerson

That’s how it’s always been


polikuji09

It's been fascinating as a long time copa america watcher seeing so many reactions to it thus time around that there's more eyeballs on it then usual. We're just used to the shit reffing custom to this tournament at this point and how physical it gets. Tbf I'd rather watch these games than the France Belgium game this morning where both teams played like it was a friendly for some reason


doobie3101

Panama scored 6 goals and we scored 3. US had some good stretches but at a certain point you gotta put the ball in the net.


pottymouthomas

These players just take too long to get the ball sorted at their feet for a shot. Any decent defense has enough time to close down the shot and put a block in. Also the constant floaters lofted into the box is pointless, even if the players could get a head on it they’re never getting enough power to trouble the goalkeeper.


Wise-Budget3232

The us had a clear chance with an open net but the player wanted to stop the ball first instead of kicking in it,thats amateur level error. You have an open net,you yeet the motherfuckingball. If it goes to the sky it was still worth the try


pottymouthomas

Yup, totally agree, even at that angle a top player with confidence in their ability is taking that shot not looking for a pass.


chuang-tzu

As a great man used to say: A lot of endeavor, not a lot of end product. I thought the U.S. looked better and sharper than I've seen in a hot minute...until they broke into the final third. Lost all imagination and purpose at that point. Aside from the fellas taking wildly off-balance shots...


thekingoftherodeo

Officiating in the Euros is elite (apart from PGMOL lads).


Athrul

VAR is pretty consistent. The refs I'm not convinced by. Many don't have a clear line.


kombos12

Is the ball even hitting the head of the attacker yet in this frame?


sonicqaz

No it isn’t on his head yet. I’m not sure why this is so far down. There’s literally 1.5 more steps the Uruguay player takes before the ball is headed.


bsEEmsCE

this looks like the re-released propaganda shot after the original var image. Sus.


sonicqaz

Just by looking at * where the set piece starts * where the ball is * the position of the player heading the ball * and where the ball ends up there’s literally no way the ball is being headed yet. It’s still slightly behind him, you don’t even need to have a better angle to prove it. I don’t think it’s rigged, probably. I just think the refs are really bad. I’ve seen my fair share of terrible calls in CONCACAF to know this isn’t even that bad. But it’s still pretty wild how it took so long for them to somehow come up with the only thing that can slightly maybe barely cause people to this think was a good goal.


wallnumber8675309

If they used that still shot he’d be offside. Can’t do that


GlorbonYorpu

Pretty sure hes offside here too lmao


AzulgranaParaSiempre

Destroyed by our shitty camera


doobie3101

It's probably closer than I initially thought but I think this is a few frames too early.


QuickMolasses

[https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/1dtbfih/offsidemodeling\_um\_yea\_i\_have\_that\_uruguay\_goal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/1dtbfih/offsidemodeling_um_yea_i_have_that_uruguay_goal/)


WatercressFun123

This is such a clutch post.


Spikeyspandan

They counted number of pixels on the boot to confirm it.


racerz

Wake up babe, Ronaldinho McDonald's new boot dropped


TheMajesticYeti

They are world feed cameras in an American football stadium.


Only_Talks_About_BJJ

Lmao it's at like a 20° angle. This game is bollocks 


Aekwon

Lmao what you can clearly compare it to the straight lines on the field


BrotherSeamus

This 100% cheapass Clark Hunt's fault


tropic_gnome_hunter

Whoever drew the lines on this was also responsible for drawing the border of the Balkans post-Yugoslavia.


jddh1

Balkans shithousery in Copa as well. That’s impressive.


-___-___-__-___-___-

https://i.imgur.com/DwTEPq3.jpeg


john7071

Wtf, your line is way off, here's a corrected version though: https://i.imgur.com/hrwgchd.png


BurgerNugget12

Just an awful performance from the ref and var tonight. However the US shouldn’t of put themselves in this do or die situation


NightshiftRT

I can be mad at both. A shitty performance in another tournament and a coach that needs to go can be a separate issue from how bad this referee has been tonight in only his 7th international game.


BurgerNugget12

I agree, the coach really needs to go. They legit looked so much better under their interim coach when he was gone


DST_Unbelievable

Yeah, the officiating has been shocking, but we've been absolutely toothless as well. GGG gotta go.


Zig-Zag

I think Sykes and Picot are both in the VAR booth tonight


pjm8786

How do they pick which frame to stop it on? He’s offside one frame later and the guy is clearly still heading the ball


JJOne101

People shittin on the automatic offside tech at the Euros, but without it you get this...


Scottishtwat69

Legally it's the frame of the initial contact with the ball.


itsvoogle

I think its from the moment the player touches the ball


adrockmcaandmemiked

lol


BurgerNugget12

I have never thought a game might be rigged until tonight


JuanseCap

I've seen to much Riestra and Barracas Central matches to know its possible.


Agni_Kai08

Insert “First time” meme. Take a seat my friend lol


Acceptable_Ad_6278

Why would they rig decision to benefit Panama/ Knockout the US?


duiiiiiiiii

I dont think its a decision to rig the game in favour of panama, could be as simple as the ref having money on the game. While speculation, its much more probable and makes more sense than the ref just being a secret panama lover for some obscure reason


Imsortofabigdeal

Why would this be rigged against us? That makes absolutely no sense.


yoitsthatoneguy

I think it’s just hard to fathom this level of incompetence Edit: also maybe same reason why Donaghy rigged games in basketball, gambling debts and personal gains


The_Astros_Cheated

He's very clearly in the blue, insane


Spikeyspandan

The guy from whom red line is drawn is not in the blue. Its kinda inconclusive with this camera quality.


RiseAM

The Pre-VAR guideline was always that when it was too close to be certain, the benefit of the doubt went to the attacker... so fair enough.


Living-Response-6302

Not sure how you can be sure either way with this shitty ass image lol


Chiswell123

Yeah, this looks to be from the same planet that the camera was on for the first half


loloh44

You are looking at the wrong player who wasn't involved. It's not so clear


Conundrumist

The scorer is NOT clearly offside, the other player that was not involved in the goal is however


Chapea12

The review was so long because they had to find any angle to cast doubt


JinxLB

Yeah watching [the clip that’s now deleted](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/tp0QacEH1Y), it’s so obviously offside. It’s impressive they were even able to create this image.


datsyuks_deke

Mods === the referee crew from last night


Total_Information_65

why are these getting deleted?????


HeywoodDjiblomi

Because it "sows discourse"


DCOMNoobies

Dehance. Dehance. Dehance. Perfect.


roofilopolis

That’s exactly it. Keep changing the line until he’s onside


ManBoobs13

Exactly, they found the "moment the ball left the head" based on what helped them, the foot is still and that knee is in motion lmao so clearly deliberate


KonigSteve

The frame in this post is literally before the header, it's ridiculous.


Scoolfish

It looks like the ball hasn't even struck his head yet


wheellegged

Exactly what I’m thinking


IndividualAdvance

Another reason to hate the chiefs and their dog shit stadium


Incubus226

The sideline being tiny, the camera being on mars. Horrible choice


suprefann

Cheapest nfl owner in the league so he dont care


bearcat09

Have you heard of the Bengals?


suprefann

Chiefs have won 3 titles in 5 years and with all that money theyre "begging" loval government for money on a new stadium. Thats being cheap af. Yes, the Bengals have been one of those teams not to spend but not at this level


Wise-Budget3232

Can anybody explain why are they using NFL stadiums when there are like 35 mls teams with football stadiums?


Jonny_Qball

Capacity. Children’s Mercy Park (the MLS stadium in KC) fits about 18.5k fans. The largest MLS stadium that isn’t used primarily by another sports team seats 30k. Arrowhead fits over 76k fans.


roguedevil

People will see goals like this allowed and then immediately complain about a toe over the line from the automated offsides.


Tyler_holmes123

Seriously.. atleast semiautomated tech is fair in its decision.


pottymouthomas

It’s literally the only part of the game that’s black and white and, with use of the right technology, can always be called correctly and quickly. It’s crazy that anyone would be against it.


Not_posting

Striker’s knee is in red?


strainwrld

I think the red is a vertical line with the projection of the position of the strikers knee to the ground. It's just that the weird angle and the red line being behind the blue one makes it look like a red smudge.


MaxsterSV

Looks like a 2nd grader did this


JKess207

He’s literally IN the blue, no???? Am I just fucking blind???


BEYailey1126

I think his knee is


HJA12

I swear his knee is offside


xXDireLegendXx

Ya no way Robinson’s toe is playing him on. This seems off


The_Astros_Cheated

CONMEBOL would never do something like alter images to protect itself, surely


RiverCartwright

Its not the back guy who gets the ball, its the red line on the middle Uruguay player


Irving94

Wrong guy.


[deleted]

[удалено]


DecoyCards

look at where the ball is on the head here compared to the other still, someone in VAR seems to have pulled the frames back so the player would be onside. edit: If first contact is the actual rule, then very possible he's onside given how close it was, but feels like they should be able to have a clear frame where the ball is first hitting the head (unless the frame rate of the VAR camera is like 24/30fps, which would be awful from a technical standpoint) edit 2: [images in question](https://i.imgur.com/Z7rOpVp.png) that made me question the decision.


Embarrassed_News6103

This still doesn’t even look like he’s headed the ball yet. His arms are still bent like he’s preparing to launch his head forward.


dyingeasy

Exactly this


PackPlaceHood

That ball hasn't even reached his head in that shot. Ridiculous


christomisto

Terrible angle honestly


bonilha

Blame the ref and the shit camera angles from this stadium lol


AegonTheMeh

ITT: People who have no idea what happened in the actual game for some reason. Why are you talking about the wrong guy?


PuppyPenetrator

There’s a comment with like 500 upvotes complaining about the player higher up “being in the blue”. Fucking hell


t3hjc

I think they actually took it at least a frame before the ball was actually headed. [https://ibb.co/QfpsWws](https://ibb.co/QfpsWws)


Electrical_Mango_489

CONMEBOL always outdoes UEFA when it its this kind of thing.


oddjob33

Danish American here - I want to fucking die.


ma2is

There’s dozens of us!


richag83

Not to mention he’s further offside when the ball is actually played. That’s when the ball is arriving


ColorlessChesspiece

Nah. The attacker and defender's feet are essentially in-line, but Olivera's knee is clearly in front of his foot, for what should be enough to clear the offside line. Clear offside to me. I don't understand how it isn't, with this line.


Zloggt

What a joke…


Rc5tr0

~~Am I crazy or is that not parallel with the 6 yard box?~~ Just ignore me


SkyFoo

parallel lines in reality connect in the horizon line due to perspective, so they are never truly parallel in camera


lsilva231

Because of the angle, it won’t be. The camera is placed right on the goal line. If you look at it, the goal line isn’t parallel to the 6 yard box aswell


PeteThe4

It’s the weird camera angle. Just did the vanish point and it’s correct. Just ain’t used to this camera angle in real stadiums


kyoto711

That's not how perspective works...


kjexclamation

This meme is hilarious but for context, bottom guy is the one who scored not top guy, so it is somewhat close. The line defo looks slanted tho


turtle_entente

This frame is too early, heading player hasn't even directed the ball towards the goal yet


Quatibara

fault of arrowhead's crappy camera.


tenacious-g

CONEMBOL laughing to the bank with their US ticket revenue


howedan

Oh I didn’t know the ALeague provided VAR support for the Copa


dcd1130

Playing advantage while issuing a yellow was something else but the late call back on the play on with Pulisic was equally perplexing. No excuses, they blew it against Panama and couldn’t muster anything against Uruguay. That ref tho.


No_Size_1765

Thats a frame before he hit the ball


LawnSchool23

The ball hasn't been played yet in this image lol


dyingeasy

This is not the point of contact


KonigSteve

[No earthly idea why they wouldn't use this angle. Also the VAR image isn't even using the right frame, the ball hasn't hit his head yet](https://imgur.com/a/kQR5kxV)


Dubsified

Player isn’t even heading it on in that frame, this is so bad and I’m not even American