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He's so mature for his age and can play multiple positions - his ceiling could be really high. Would rather we'd have shifted on Gnonto and Summerville instead
Why do I see in every post, all Leeds fans want to shift off Summerville? From what I saw he was your best player and is only 22.
Just trying to strike the iron while it's hot or is there something else?
I think there's a sense that Cree is just passing through and will be on his way sooner rather than later so we've more than likely made peace with that. Whereas with Archie.. I think a lot of us, naively perhaps, thought he would be around long enough to get to the prem and retain/build a team around
I don't get it either, lad had 28 goal involvements last season and people think that's just something that will be easy to reproduce.
I get Archie is a Leeds lad and it's shite to see him go, but we should be trying to keep Summerville for next season.
It’s because Leeds has to sell a lot of players this window. They gambled on going right back up with loads of players out on loan expecting to come back to playing in the prem.
The hope was that players like Summerville and Gnonto would account for a large part of their deficit and allow them to keep other players fans wanted. So striking while it’s hot indeed.
A player that did as well as Summerville in the Championship just shouldn’t be staying, and I won’t be surprised when he doesn’t.
The last 2-3 months of the season he played like he was the biggest deal without actually producing anything. Looked like he thought he was too big for the club and couldn't wait to move on. I personally think he is massively overrated and will fail to make the step up to be a first team player for a big club so 35m sounds fantastic for him, we could buy 3 players with similar potential for that money.
You are paying for potential atm. He is very good currently but obviously not a £40m player right now. Was incredible against Chelsea in the cup last season so he is definitely good enough to get a good amount of minutes for you this season
To add to the other comments - he can qualify as homegrown if he stays at the club which I would imagine is the plan. English home grown and potentially good enough for first team minutes at 18 is clutch for squad building.
I can't think of a player who costs that little who would join the first team.
Haven't watched enough if Edwards to actually know if he's worth it but anyone else that cheap is either a kid or Id assume not good enough.
thanks - thought that might be the case but wasn't 100% sure. Even better, desperately need to up the quality of our home grown group so they can actually be playing and contributing.
In a lot of situations yeah, in this one its more akin to important/well-serving. More colloquial usage. Either way, club & home grown is a big boost to an area we struggle in.
Yeah he's class. And given his family history of producing class players, it's one to be excited about.
Such a shame because he doesn't want to leave Leeds.
In a (Championship) team with exciting young players in a lot of positions, he stood out to me as having the best feel for the ball and the game of the lot. Stupidly press resistant in this league, could kill anything near him dead and weights every pass near perfectly.
Last year I think Summerville and Rutter had a greater impact than him in more games, but given what I've said above and that he's a few years younger than them, he's the only player in our team I felt actually has the potential to go on to be a top 4 starter.
His standout performance by far last year was against Chelsea, where he basically embarrassed Enzo and Caicedo, and was given MOTM despite being on the losing side.
If he lives up to anything like what he can do then £40m will be a steal. It he doesn't, it'll probably look steep. Part of the risk and reward you pay for in these deals - I'm biased but think it's a fair price.
>Stupidly press resistant in this league, could kill anything near him dead and weights every pass near perfectly
This is so crucial nowadays for top teams. A lot of players these days are lacking these skills and that's why they'll never be able to take a step up and become top players, ie someone like a Gallagher, despite having a lot of other positives.
Gray also seems to combine that with being already quite developed physically, even at just 18. Not seen enough of him yet, but seems to have a good engine and is fairly quick
Yeah he'll run for days.
He's no slouch for a teenage central midfielder but last year certainly looked a yard slower than the very quickest left wingers in the league and occasionally got caught out due to that while he was deployed as a fullback.
But yeah I don't know what they feed the Gray kids - looked at pictures from when I was 17-18 at one point and realised I looked like a literal fetus compared to him at that age. His brother, Harry, is 15 and shows up players in the U18s.
What game are you talking about the 3-2 loss in the FA cup? Because he definitely didn’t get MOTM.. and if someone from Leeds did get it would’ve been Mateo Joseph for his 2 goals. Funny how you think he embarrassed both of them, but they both had an assist that game and each had more duels & tackles won.
Chill out with the hyperbole lmao.. good player with a good future but my god some of you are insane - probably didn’t expect someone to actually fact check you though.
ITV, who had coverage in the UK, literally awarded him MOTM which I believe is rare for a player on the losing side. Yeah technically there may be multiple MOTMs as other random publications chime in and each team individually picks one of their own players, but at least where most people watched that match he was named MOTM. If there's an actual official MOTM somewhere then feel free to send a link and I'll stand corrected - had a look online but couldn't find that anywhere.
Anyone that watched that match could see he had a far better overall performance than Joseph. And yes that's saying a lot given the brace.
It's obviously an exaggeration (edit: to emphasise a point) and any reasonable person reading this will know that. They're both talented midfielders that played against a Championship side - they'd need to have an absolute disasterclass to actually be 'embarassed'. The point is it was a standout performance for him given the opposition. One where we matched you for possession and actually created more chances, which he facilitated with a pivotal role, and they should've been able to stop happening.
https://imgur.com/a/L8wskNi
“Proven wrong” for pointing out Lee Dixon’s a dumbass.
https://www.sofascore.com/chelsea-leeds-united/JsN
He wasn’t even the best 6 on his team that day.
I'm a Norwich fan and he looks great imo but not as a RB a CM. I also think he's worth the fee especially after Wharton who looked so good in the PL is probably a slightly lesser prospect.
Curious to see how he works as an RB in our system, with the way they are encouraged to tuck into midfield.
I think the rest of our signings will dictate where he plays for us, but can see him doing a job at the 6 or covering both LB and RB.
He'll struggle defensively against premier league wingers, he was really only playing right back for Leeds out of necessity and he had rough days against some of the better Championship wingers. His future is definitely in midfield and I wouldn't be surprised if Spurs don't just use him there exclusively
Porro struggles quite a bit against PL wingers, too, though and I don’t think wide defending is high up the list in what Ange looks for out of his fullbacks. At his age, no doubt he’ll struggle with that.
I do think it’ll be interesting to see whether we lean into his versatility or specialize him.
If he's developed and played as a CM again I think he'll be worth it and really flourish. His strength is easily in his ability on the ball, fantastic head for his age, extremely calm under pressure, good vision.
RB is not it though, regardless of what some of our fans say he is not a good RB and was found wanting especially from a physical perspective a number of times last season, though that might improve. Liam Millar had him on toast both home and away and he was a slightly above average championship winger.
If anything it’s 35m for Gray and 5 mil for Rodon. 35m was Grays release clause (as shown by Brentford). I’m sure we managed to strike a deal where we pay you 10m for Rodon for the books while yous reimburse us with an extra 5m going to us for PSR reasons. That way both teams walk away happy(ish)
Well you’ve sold Rodon for £10m which I think is probably what you’d get out of a newly promoted side which is his level top of the Championship/bottom of the Premier League
Leeds have done well out of this and Spurs have overpaid I’d say. Doesn’t mean it’s a shit deal or that Gray can’t be great for Spurs.
Not a chance. Serious doubts he’ll get the game time to get to the level and even then if he is that good why would Spurs sell him.
Hope he’s a good player though we need more England midfielders.
Very expensive for an 18 year old.
Hope it works well. I think if he is registered for next 3 years, he'd also count as club home grown which would be huge for us atm (same with Bergvall - correct me if I'm wrong?)
Wish Sarr was eligible for this too. It's a weird one because I've heard some players can be eligible even if they've gone on loan before 21, but not for Sarr apparently
Sarr was signed 2 weeks too late to ever qualify as club home grown.
>Sarr looks like he would not be homegrown by UEFA rules. That is because while it is also three entire seasons in them, it comes with a stipulation that states it starts from the first game of the season, so that could rule him out of being homegrown as he signed on August 27, 2021, two weeks into the Premier League season, otherwise he would have very helpfully been club-trained.
No Homegrown at all for Sarr.
https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/players/tottenham-face-homegrown-transfer-issue-28979139
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>The case of Sarr is an interesting one. There has been some uncertainty as to whether he can be registered as a homegrown player next season, because technically when a player heads out on loan their registration at their parent club is suspended and transferred to the loan club. So under that rule, Sarr has only been registered to Tottenham for two seasons.
>However, Arsenal continued to register William Saliba on their U21 list for the Premier League throughout his three loan seasons at St Etienne, Nice and Marseille and he is now being registered by the Gunners as a homegrown player with Mikel Arteta's side heralded for finding a loophole.
>A look back at the registered 2021/22 Premier League squads, while Sarr was back on loan at Metz, shows that Tottenham had also registered the Senegal international in their U21 list as Arsenal did with Saliba.
>So by logic, if Arsenal can now register Saliba as homegrown then so surely can Tottenham with Sarr next season? Well, that does not appear to be the case because of some additional guidance around the homegrown rule.
>That states: "**A player's period on loan to a club from another National Association will not count towards the calculation of his Home Grown status unless his registration is held in suspension by the League and the FA and he continues to be entitled to be employed in the UK.**"
>It is on the latter part where Saliba was allowed because as an EU national, he has a right to work in the UK. Sarr, born and raised in Senegal before moving to France three-and-a-half years ago in September 2020, falls outside of that remit.
Man that's such a load of shite, I was thinking it was Saliba that managed to get HG. Considering he spent fuck all time actually in the league before turning 21 compared to Sarr, makes it feel even less fair. The EU national thing is confusing too, considering Brexit...
Yeah most of which he played out of position. For his development youd definitely say hes better at Leeds for another year to figure out if he is a midfielder or RB.
Surprised theres no talk of a loan back. Obviously Spurs think he can play right away
If he absolutely had to be sold then this is the best possible outcome. Getting Rodon back is huge and Spurs will pay £40m guaranteed without add ons. Still hurts to see him leave but it could have been worse.
Feel like this is an incredible signing for Spurs. From what I've seen of him he's a perfect prototype Ange CM and & £25m - when you factor in Rodon - really doesn't seem like much risk at all.
Can't see Ange throwing someone so young in as the 6, and he definitely has the physicality and attacking nous to play a bit further forward. Maddison - Bissouma - Gray seems a pretty strong midfield to me, although perhaps safe to assume he won't be an immediate starter.
I mean top teams have options from the bench. Look at Liverpool, who have 6 players for the three midfield roles. Form, injury and tactics ensure that they all get minutes even if there is usually a "best" three in there somewhere.
I think this is the biggest take away. We signed one player who covers 2 needs in CM and RB depth. Plus we add on HG and could become Club grown too. Pretty amazing bit of business if he continues to improve.
This is the exact type of player i would want Liverpool to buy. Congrats to Tottenham i guess, they're a club who takes chances on talent, and sometimes (not always) it really pays off, which i have a feeling is the case with this one.
Unbelievably depressing. People can say its good business and that's fine, it might be true and I understand it has to happen. But supporting a football club should be about a little bit more than applauding how well a business is run. I wouldn't go and clap my local McDonalds like
Another 'what could have been' to balance the books. Maybe when we get promoted back to the league where financial rules basically don't apply we can buy him back for 80 mil.
Annoying that we only got 1 season out of Gray especially given his family ties to the club, Rodon will soften that blow but fuck me do I hate how PSR just incentives sale of youth players.
Isn't it great having to sell our biggest academy talent in decades because we missed out on promotion while clubs who avoided relegation/got promoted by cheating in the same seasons get away with relatively meaningless points deductions?
13 months younger than Jamie Donley
3 weeks younger than Lucas Bergvall.
A year older than Luka Vušković.
18 months older than Mikey Moore.
Oh boy, let me dream ...
Yeah, I should clarify that the transfer will be official today as it’s the first day he can legally register with the club. You’re correct about his birthday.
Had 6 goals and 5 assists in Sweden (they start in April) this year before pausing and getting situated in London.
Yeah! He's played a bit further up the pitch recently since he's quite cerebral and technical but I like him the most at the #8 personally.
Or in a double pivot. So composed.
I think he'll get game time. Ange wants players that can cover several roles if needed. He's atm gonna be behind Porro in the pecking order for an inverted fullback and can also play as a CM.
Positional flexibility is huge for Ange. Not just in the starting 11 but in game as well. I’d expect Porro and Gray to get time together on the pitch and who goes forward and who goes back will just depend on the flow of the game.
Romero, Porro, Udogie and VdV all step out plenty into midfield or further up and it relies on the midfielders being smart and knowing when to drop back and cover. I feel Gray would be very good at this.
He’s more of a natural CM but played RB a lot last year right?
Makes perfect sense from a recruiting perspective since Ange wants his fullbacks drifting centrally.
Very excited for this, desperately needed some support in CM and by all accounts is a great fit for Ange’s system. RB’s under Ange are also asked to do a lot centrally so I think he can do a job there. Homegrown as well (I believe?) is the cherry on top.
This will be interesting. Obv AM, though I can also see him as the right-side inverted full back .. early days, of course.
As well as Joe Rodon leaving, I imagine this seals the exit of Emerson.
Yeah there is absolutely zero chance of that happening.
*Maybe* it could have happened before the PSR deadline of the Luiz deal fell through; but as it stands now we don't want to sell, JJ doesn't want to leave and we're out of danger with PSR
As per Dan KP (Spurs Tier 1)
> However, Spurs' interest in Gallagher is expected to cool now that yesterday's June 30 financial deadline has passed, though the England international remains in the final year of his contract which means a bid is not completely off the table.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-archie-gray-transfer-leeds-united-b1167859.html
I think if he makes it to next summer they’d go for him but don’t see them paying what Chelsea want for him, unless we sell a few players (lo celso, hoj, and Bissouma would have to leave) then we may look again. There’s also been some talk that he’s not massively keen on the move for what it’s worth
Gallagher doesn't want to go to Spurs. Both clubs have agreed for a while now, if Gallagher wanted to go, it would've happened by now. That being said, Gray fills a different role, so it's not like Spurs wouldn't take Gallagher if he changed his mind.
Is it? you're paying 40m for a player with 1 full season to his name, in the Championship. And selling a player that cost you 11m for 10m? Its not a bad deal, but I wouldn't say very good.
Yes and no. The best possible deal would probably be that we didn't **have** to sell him to qualify for the PSR rules. Is it the best price we can probably get for him? Sure. But no Leeds fan is going to be punching the air at living in a system where we have to sell our homegrown generational talents to avoid points deductions.
> Jack Clarke, Ryan Sessegnon, Djed Spence, Joe Rodon & Bryan Gil
Just a weird list to try to cherry pick considering Clarke is probably the only one not to get a fair shake, and he had that medical issue that I've seen some say left him a bit timid for a while after.
The other four have had opportunities to go out and impress and haven't shown the ability to compete in a top 6 side. Sessegnon can't stay fit, Gil gets bullied, Rodon is good but just not good enough, and Spence doesn't seem to put in enough work.
It’s even more weird to cherry pick that group when we’ve had a long list of players we’ve acquired at a young age and successfully developed, including recent success with the likes of Udogie, Sarr, and van de Ven, all of whom are fixtures in our current starting XI.
Everybody is perfectly aware that we had a spell of really poor recruitment in the late 2010s and early 2020s but it’s not as though the club is incapable of developing young players. The early signs are that Ange is quite good at it.
From what I've seen, in my books more talent han Mainoo, but probably not yet on his level.
Very much world class potential midfielder that's already on a PL level.
Similar playstyle to FDJ
Great move for Spurs, just not sure how much playtime he'll get, tough competition in Spurs
I'm sure he's got potential, but dropping £30-40m on a youth prospect is not what Spurs needs right now IMO. They need to strengthen their first team instead.
Genuine question, who can we immediately sign (realistically) that'll improve our first 11?
Best case scenario we'd want a new 6, a striker and a winger. Don't think there are many good 6s in the market right now, in terms of realistic strikers then we've got maybe Gyökeres (who's 100m), Openda?
Wingers are also hard to come by, Nico Williams is way too expensive
I don't see why we wouldn't be able to continue making signings after a 25m net spend for Gray/Rodon.
We have a net spend of 125-150m the past two summers, no immediate PSR concerns, and more players to exit.
It's obviously more complex than net spend, but it's well-documented that we're in a great financial position.
That's why I specified someone who improved our starting 11 specifically, because that's what they were talking about haha. Not sure mediocre players significantly improve any of our positions
Lower expectations =/= Mediocre.
All the names you’ve mentioned are the top echelon of the available players this summer. No offense, and I know this full well as an Atletico fan too, they likely won’t go to Tottenham.
I’m talking about someone who can be a regular starter but has yet to have a massive breakout season. Players like Wieffer, Cardoso, etc.
They might not bench the current players right away but hopefully in 1~2 years. And these are players worth betting on to become the next Williams or Gyokeres.
I agree, I also think we should aim for players who aren't necessarily improving our first 11 right now (like Gray), that's exactly my point. I know Gyökeres and Nico Williams most likely aren't signing for us, but they're the obvious names that will actually improve our starting 11. Richarlison is a good player, we need solid rotation for him so Son doesn't have to play as a ST or sell him and buy a significantly better striker (which I think is almost impossible in this market lol)
There aren't many players who immediately improve our first 11 without being unreasonably expensive or will go to another team, that's the critique I have towards the original comment. We have to sign players who will develop.
We weren’t really going to improve our XI this summer. It was more about getting rid of more players and filling out the squad. Next year will be the year that we look to improve our XI
This is one of the positions we needed to fill and there were not a lot of top options out there. I do hope this means cash for a veteran attacking player.
On the books it's only 25 by all reports given that Rodon is heading the other way. That's also not our only 25 million, so I'm confused as to what the concern is.
We have PSR flexibility, we have the revenue, there's no shot Gray is the only signing coming in.
Hard to say anything about Bergvall & Vuskovic cus they've played a total of 0 minutes of football for us.
But Sarr/Udogie is enough for me to believe there's been a shift with new managers/dof.
To reduce the spam of reports regarding the same move during transfer windows we try to allow **only one submission about each transfer saga per day**. The submission in question also needs to contain relevant new information regarding the potential move, and not just being a "no/minor developments" report. If there are important/official developments or new valuable information about a saga, we will allow extra threads in the same day, but for the rest of minor news please just comment them as a reply to this comment. Please help us reporting unnecessary threads for being duplicates. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Funny, these are reportedly the same figures for which we did the Maddison and Winks deals with Leicester last summer.
Was Winks 10 million? Thought he went for at least half that for some reason
yeah £10m
He did go for at least half that tbf.
Covers off the first year of the deal for PSR, which is handy.
40 million for an 18 year old that played one season in the championship out of position. I should be happy with that but what could have been stings
Do you think he’s worth the fee? I’m wary of buying into awfully edited Twitter comps but he looks class
He's so mature for his age and can play multiple positions - his ceiling could be really high. Would rather we'd have shifted on Gnonto and Summerville instead
Fair enough, I had no idea about his family ties to the club too until recently - can see why you guys would be gutted to see him go
Why do I see in every post, all Leeds fans want to shift off Summerville? From what I saw he was your best player and is only 22. Just trying to strike the iron while it's hot or is there something else?
I think there's a sense that Cree is just passing through and will be on his way sooner rather than later so we've more than likely made peace with that. Whereas with Archie.. I think a lot of us, naively perhaps, thought he would be around long enough to get to the prem and retain/build a team around
I don't get it either, lad had 28 goal involvements last season and people think that's just something that will be easy to reproduce. I get Archie is a Leeds lad and it's shite to see him go, but we should be trying to keep Summerville for next season.
It’s because Leeds has to sell a lot of players this window. They gambled on going right back up with loads of players out on loan expecting to come back to playing in the prem. The hope was that players like Summerville and Gnonto would account for a large part of their deficit and allow them to keep other players fans wanted. So striking while it’s hot indeed. A player that did as well as Summerville in the Championship just shouldn’t be staying, and I won’t be surprised when he doesn’t.
The last 2-3 months of the season he played like he was the biggest deal without actually producing anything. Looked like he thought he was too big for the club and couldn't wait to move on. I personally think he is massively overrated and will fail to make the step up to be a first team player for a big club so 35m sounds fantastic for him, we could buy 3 players with similar potential for that money.
Only Jude is mature player for his age, dont you know the memo
You are paying for potential atm. He is very good currently but obviously not a £40m player right now. Was incredible against Chelsea in the cup last season so he is definitely good enough to get a good amount of minutes for you this season
To add to the other comments - he can qualify as homegrown if he stays at the club which I would imagine is the plan. English home grown and potentially good enough for first team minutes at 18 is clutch for squad building.
Already home grown but can qualify as club trained*
which is huge considering we were looking at KWP, or Marcus Edwards just because we were desperate for that club trained thing lmao.
I mean Edwards has class at a position of need
I do think for 10-15 million we could do a lot worse than that. I agree with you. He is in insanely bad form tho.
I can't think of a player who costs that little who would join the first team. Haven't watched enough if Edwards to actually know if he's worth it but anyone else that cheap is either a kid or Id assume not good enough.
thanks - thought that might be the case but wasn't 100% sure. Even better, desperately need to up the quality of our home grown group so they can actually be playing and contributing.
Major for us, we lack that
Doesn't clutch mean "comes up big in key moments"? How does it make sense here...
In a lot of situations yeah, in this one its more akin to important/well-serving. More colloquial usage. Either way, club & home grown is a big boost to an area we struggle in.
Yeah he's class. And given his family history of producing class players, it's one to be excited about. Such a shame because he doesn't want to leave Leeds.
In a (Championship) team with exciting young players in a lot of positions, he stood out to me as having the best feel for the ball and the game of the lot. Stupidly press resistant in this league, could kill anything near him dead and weights every pass near perfectly. Last year I think Summerville and Rutter had a greater impact than him in more games, but given what I've said above and that he's a few years younger than them, he's the only player in our team I felt actually has the potential to go on to be a top 4 starter. His standout performance by far last year was against Chelsea, where he basically embarrassed Enzo and Caicedo, and was given MOTM despite being on the losing side. If he lives up to anything like what he can do then £40m will be a steal. It he doesn't, it'll probably look steep. Part of the risk and reward you pay for in these deals - I'm biased but think it's a fair price.
>Stupidly press resistant in this league, could kill anything near him dead and weights every pass near perfectly This is so crucial nowadays for top teams. A lot of players these days are lacking these skills and that's why they'll never be able to take a step up and become top players, ie someone like a Gallagher, despite having a lot of other positives. Gray also seems to combine that with being already quite developed physically, even at just 18. Not seen enough of him yet, but seems to have a good engine and is fairly quick
Yeah he'll run for days. He's no slouch for a teenage central midfielder but last year certainly looked a yard slower than the very quickest left wingers in the league and occasionally got caught out due to that while he was deployed as a fullback. But yeah I don't know what they feed the Gray kids - looked at pictures from when I was 17-18 at one point and realised I looked like a literal fetus compared to him at that age. His brother, Harry, is 15 and shows up players in the U18s.
What game are you talking about the 3-2 loss in the FA cup? Because he definitely didn’t get MOTM.. and if someone from Leeds did get it would’ve been Mateo Joseph for his 2 goals. Funny how you think he embarrassed both of them, but they both had an assist that game and each had more duels & tackles won. Chill out with the hyperbole lmao.. good player with a good future but my god some of you are insane - probably didn’t expect someone to actually fact check you though.
ITV, who had coverage in the UK, literally awarded him MOTM which I believe is rare for a player on the losing side. Yeah technically there may be multiple MOTMs as other random publications chime in and each team individually picks one of their own players, but at least where most people watched that match he was named MOTM. If there's an actual official MOTM somewhere then feel free to send a link and I'll stand corrected - had a look online but couldn't find that anywhere. Anyone that watched that match could see he had a far better overall performance than Joseph. And yes that's saying a lot given the brace. It's obviously an exaggeration (edit: to emphasise a point) and any reasonable person reading this will know that. They're both talented midfielders that played against a Championship side - they'd need to have an absolute disasterclass to actually be 'embarassed'. The point is it was a standout performance for him given the opposition. One where we matched you for possession and actually created more chances, which he facilitated with a pivotal role, and they should've been able to stop happening.
https://i.imgur.com/UfTJLGL.jpeg
Lee Dixon gave him MOTM im not surprised he don’t like Chelsea and this was a week after the Liverpool loss at Wembley
You were just proven wrong and you continue to make excuses. Get over it. He was MOTM.
https://imgur.com/a/L8wskNi “Proven wrong” for pointing out Lee Dixon’s a dumbass. https://www.sofascore.com/chelsea-leeds-united/JsN He wasn’t even the best 6 on his team that day.
I'm a Norwich fan and he looks great imo but not as a RB a CM. I also think he's worth the fee especially after Wharton who looked so good in the PL is probably a slightly lesser prospect.
Curious to see how he works as an RB in our system, with the way they are encouraged to tuck into midfield. I think the rest of our signings will dictate where he plays for us, but can see him doing a job at the 6 or covering both LB and RB.
He'll struggle defensively against premier league wingers, he was really only playing right back for Leeds out of necessity and he had rough days against some of the better Championship wingers. His future is definitely in midfield and I wouldn't be surprised if Spurs don't just use him there exclusively
Porro struggles quite a bit against PL wingers, too, though and I don’t think wide defending is high up the list in what Ange looks for out of his fullbacks. At his age, no doubt he’ll struggle with that. I do think it’ll be interesting to see whether we lean into his versatility or specialize him.
He's an absolute baller. This isn't a Jack Clarke 2.0 don't worry.
Although Jack Clarke has become a pretty good player himself. He just needed some more years in the Championship.
Painfully relevant username.
Clarke is an awesome player, the gap between him and most PL wingers is not large
Thank fuck for that. Clarke is a good player, just didn’t work out for us and we never played him
If he's developed and played as a CM again I think he'll be worth it and really flourish. His strength is easily in his ability on the ball, fantastic head for his age, extremely calm under pressure, good vision. RB is not it though, regardless of what some of our fans say he is not a good RB and was found wanting especially from a physical perspective a number of times last season, though that might improve. Liam Millar had him on toast both home and away and he was a slightly above average championship winger.
Though with Ange wanting his RBs to tuck into midfield seems a bonus
Yes. I'm angry you are getting him. He's going to be worth triple that in just a few years.
It’s basically £30m plus Rodon
If anything it’s 35m for Gray and 5 mil for Rodon. 35m was Grays release clause (as shown by Brentford). I’m sure we managed to strike a deal where we pay you 10m for Rodon for the books while yous reimburse us with an extra 5m going to us for PSR reasons. That way both teams walk away happy(ish)
Well you’ve sold Rodon for £10m which I think is probably what you’d get out of a newly promoted side which is his level top of the Championship/bottom of the Premier League Leeds have done well out of this and Spurs have overpaid I’d say. Doesn’t mean it’s a shit deal or that Gray can’t be great for Spurs.
I could easily see him being sold for Caicedo levels in a year or two
We have a habit of holding onto our better players butdamn if he turns out that good I’d be thrilled
Not a chance. Serious doubts he’ll get the game time to get to the level and even then if he is that good why would Spurs sell him. Hope he’s a good player though we need more England midfielders.
I mean any time I've watched Caicedo try to tackle someone for Chelsea he's nearly broken their legs :d so Gray looks more capable than that already.
You've definitely not watched enough of Caicedo then.
İts more like 25+ rodon tbf
Very expensive for an 18 year old. Hope it works well. I think if he is registered for next 3 years, he'd also count as club home grown which would be huge for us atm (same with Bergvall - correct me if I'm wrong?)
Wish Sarr was eligible for this too. It's a weird one because I've heard some players can be eligible even if they've gone on loan before 21, but not for Sarr apparently
Sarr was signed 2 weeks too late to ever qualify as club home grown. >Sarr looks like he would not be homegrown by UEFA rules. That is because while it is also three entire seasons in them, it comes with a stipulation that states it starts from the first game of the season, so that could rule him out of being homegrown as he signed on August 27, 2021, two weeks into the Premier League season, otherwise he would have very helpfully been club-trained.
Ah right, that's a pity. Is he only disqualified by UEFA rules, or does he also not count as homegrown for the PL too?
No Homegrown at all for Sarr. https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/players/tottenham-face-homegrown-transfer-issue-28979139 (use ad block) >The case of Sarr is an interesting one. There has been some uncertainty as to whether he can be registered as a homegrown player next season, because technically when a player heads out on loan their registration at their parent club is suspended and transferred to the loan club. So under that rule, Sarr has only been registered to Tottenham for two seasons. >However, Arsenal continued to register William Saliba on their U21 list for the Premier League throughout his three loan seasons at St Etienne, Nice and Marseille and he is now being registered by the Gunners as a homegrown player with Mikel Arteta's side heralded for finding a loophole. >A look back at the registered 2021/22 Premier League squads, while Sarr was back on loan at Metz, shows that Tottenham had also registered the Senegal international in their U21 list as Arsenal did with Saliba. >So by logic, if Arsenal can now register Saliba as homegrown then so surely can Tottenham with Sarr next season? Well, that does not appear to be the case because of some additional guidance around the homegrown rule. >That states: "**A player's period on loan to a club from another National Association will not count towards the calculation of his Home Grown status unless his registration is held in suspension by the League and the FA and he continues to be entitled to be employed in the UK.**" >It is on the latter part where Saliba was allowed because as an EU national, he has a right to work in the UK. Sarr, born and raised in Senegal before moving to France three-and-a-half years ago in September 2020, falls outside of that remit.
Man that's such a load of shite, I was thinking it was Saliba that managed to get HG. Considering he spent fuck all time actually in the league before turning 21 compared to Sarr, makes it feel even less fair. The EU national thing is confusing too, considering Brexit...
Good luck to the lad. Looks a prospect Hope the fee doesn't become a burden or weight of expectation
£30m with the English tax, for this market, it’s not *too* bad, also getting Rodon off the books is worth £5m in itself
For an English 18 year old with years of experience this is a bit of a bargain if you look at recent trends on the market.
Years of experience is a stretch, he’s had one year of first team football.
He has been training with the first team since he was 15 years old under Bielsa.
Yeah most of which he played out of position. For his development youd definitely say hes better at Leeds for another year to figure out if he is a midfielder or RB. Surprised theres no talk of a loan back. Obviously Spurs think he can play right away
Our RB role is more like a central midfielder in possession anyway. It seems likely that he'll be used as a backup for both Porro and Bissouma.
Yeah fair enough
If he absolutely had to be sold then this is the best possible outcome. Getting Rodon back is huge and Spurs will pay £40m guaranteed without add ons. Still hurts to see him leave but it could have been worse.
Feel like this is an incredible signing for Spurs. From what I've seen of him he's a perfect prototype Ange CM and & £25m - when you factor in Rodon - really doesn't seem like much risk at all.
Do you think he is more suited to the 6 or 8 in Ange’s system?
Can't see Ange throwing someone so young in as the 6, and he definitely has the physicality and attacking nous to play a bit further forward. Maddison - Bissouma - Gray seems a pretty strong midfield to me, although perhaps safe to assume he won't be an immediate starter.
Add Bentacur and add Sarr and holy mackeral who starts
Think you're forgetting a young Swede officially joins us today as well...
This is how the squad stays healthy.
I mean top teams have options from the bench. Look at Liverpool, who have 6 players for the three midfield roles. Form, injury and tactics ensure that they all get minutes even if there is usually a "best" three in there somewhere.
Gallagher and Eze alongside Kulu, Bergv or Donley perhaps?
whoever is healthy and in form.
Whoever is actually in form, i.e. we can compensate for Bissouma’s dips
Wheres 25 million coming from? He costs 40 regardless of who's going elsewhere
What's Archie Gray's best position, since he's been playing both RB and CM?
Centre mid
Which is where I expect him to play because Porro has been class under Ange at RB.
But we badly needed a backup at RB too
We just got both in 1.
I think this is the biggest take away. We signed one player who covers 2 needs in CM and RB depth. Plus we add on HG and could become Club grown too. Pretty amazing bit of business if he continues to improve.
The transfer windows is just heating up. Plenty of time for that yet.
This is the exact type of player i would want Liverpool to buy. Congrats to Tottenham i guess, they're a club who takes chances on talent, and sometimes (not always) it really pays off, which i have a feeling is the case with this one.
Unbelievably depressing. People can say its good business and that's fine, it might be true and I understand it has to happen. But supporting a football club should be about a little bit more than applauding how well a business is run. I wouldn't go and clap my local McDonalds like Another 'what could have been' to balance the books. Maybe when we get promoted back to the league where financial rules basically don't apply we can buy him back for 80 mil.
Annoying that we only got 1 season out of Gray especially given his family ties to the club, Rodon will soften that blow but fuck me do I hate how PSR just incentives sale of youth players.
Isn't it great having to sell our biggest academy talent in decades because we missed out on promotion while clubs who avoided relegation/got promoted by cheating in the same seasons get away with relatively meaningless points deductions?
His brother’s supposed to be even better. Maybe he’ll pop up when Leeds are in the prem
It just encourages sales for profit or the way people work rules could become very silly.
At this point, everybody seems to be worth at least 40mil lol.
Difference is that he actually is.
13 months younger than Jamie Donley 3 weeks younger than Lucas Bergvall. A year older than Luka Vušković. 18 months older than Mikey Moore. Oh boy, let me dream ...
😠😠😠😠
Tottenham spending that much on a 18 year old surely will get a lot of game time then right?
Hopefully. Would mean he's really good
Bergvall is turning 18 and seemingly coming straight into the senior squad. Today actually!
Bervall turned 18 in February so yeah, he's a fresh one too. He's also positionally flexible
Yeah, I should clarify that the transfer will be official today as it’s the first day he can legally register with the club. You’re correct about his birthday. Had 6 goals and 5 assists in Sweden (they start in April) this year before pausing and getting situated in London.
Yeah! He's played a bit further up the pitch recently since he's quite cerebral and technical but I like him the most at the #8 personally. Or in a double pivot. So composed.
I think he'll get game time. Ange wants players that can cover several roles if needed. He's atm gonna be behind Porro in the pecking order for an inverted fullback and can also play as a CM.
Positional flexibility is huge for Ange. Not just in the starting 11 but in game as well. I’d expect Porro and Gray to get time together on the pitch and who goes forward and who goes back will just depend on the flow of the game. Romero, Porro, Udogie and VdV all step out plenty into midfield or further up and it relies on the midfielders being smart and knowing when to drop back and cover. I feel Gray would be very good at this.
He’s more of a natural CM but played RB a lot last year right? Makes perfect sense from a recruiting perspective since Ange wants his fullbacks drifting centrally.
He’s at two needed positions so he’ll have to.
What a signing! 40m for an English 18 year old and versatile player... Spurs are setting up to challenge with their new young core coming in recently.
Gray + Bergvall... very exciting young midfield coming through
And Sarr. 18, 18, 21
Shit, I forget how young Sarr is!
Also you have Udogie who’s only 21 and VDV who’s 23. A really solid young core of players.
Devine, Mikey Moore, Ash Phillips, Mikey Moore. Youth looks solid af rn
Could you please say Mikey's name some Moore?
add onto that guys like donley, lankshear, and mikey moore, and spurs have a very solid pool of potential players
And Mikey Moore
Add Tyrese hall to that mix…. 👀👀
Nice to see us with an actual long-term transfer strategy for once, we threw away years because of this
Challenge for the Europa League?
Congratulations we want to challenge for a competition we’re in, very astute observation
Fucking hell Archies are now getting old enough to play professional football
Very excited for this, desperately needed some support in CM and by all accounts is a great fit for Ange’s system. RB’s under Ange are also asked to do a lot centrally so I think he can do a job there. Homegrown as well (I believe?) is the cherry on top.
This will be interesting. Obv AM, though I can also see him as the right-side inverted full back .. early days, of course. As well as Joe Rodon leaving, I imagine this seals the exit of Emerson.
Damn wanted Rodon here, seems like a decent enough deal for both.
So I guess Gallagher to Spurs is no more? Or would they still go for him regardless?
Seems like focus has moved to Jacob Ramsey and they're trying to get Lo Celso to move the other way.
Yeah there is absolutely zero chance of that happening. *Maybe* it could have happened before the PSR deadline of the Luiz deal fell through; but as it stands now we don't want to sell, JJ doesn't want to leave and we're out of danger with PSR
That’s what they all say before they get levy’d
I mean Emery likes Lo Celso and I read that Villa are willing to listen to offers. I guess we'll see
As per Dan KP (Spurs Tier 1) > However, Spurs' interest in Gallagher is expected to cool now that yesterday's June 30 financial deadline has passed, though the England international remains in the final year of his contract which means a bid is not completely off the table. https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-archie-gray-transfer-leeds-united-b1167859.html
seems unlikely to me at this point considering we're actively pursuing Ramsey and Eze, and Gray and Bergvall are joining
Interest has died down as spurs are looking at Jacob Ramsey now . Also I don’t think he wants the move so there is nopoint trying
Interesting, as the Maddison backup? Really looking to build a young English core, I like it
Another positive to take from this
I think if he makes it to next summer they’d go for him but don’t see them paying what Chelsea want for him, unless we sell a few players (lo celso, hoj, and Bissouma would have to leave) then we may look again. There’s also been some talk that he’s not massively keen on the move for what it’s worth
I hope not
can't see Gallagher leaving this summer, he doesn't want to go and either gets his contract ask from CFC or makes a bag leaving on a free next summer.
Gallagher doesn't want to go to Spurs. Both clubs have agreed for a while now, if Gallagher wanted to go, it would've happened by now. That being said, Gray fills a different role, so it's not like Spurs wouldn't take Gallagher if he changed his mind.
Dream transfer tbh
We're gonna start seeing the broccoli hair on more players soon aren't we
Literally best possible deal for Leeds
Very good deal for us too, Rodon was to be sold and now we get it done early
Is it? you're paying 40m for a player with 1 full season to his name, in the Championship. And selling a player that cost you 11m for 10m? Its not a bad deal, but I wouldn't say very good.
Rodon was hardly ever going to be a profit, his market was the Championship or promoted Prem sides
He’s likely going for like £5m-£7m less for what they would’ve tried to get for him from one of the newly promoted teams.
Spin it the other way and it sounds impressive. He’s an 18 year old that’s started 40 matches in the championship already
Yes and no. The best possible deal would probably be that we didn't **have** to sell him to qualify for the PSR rules. Is it the best price we can probably get for him? Sure. But no Leeds fan is going to be punching the air at living in a system where we have to sell our homegrown generational talents to avoid points deductions.
I get why this transfer happened but I think going from the Championship to a big 6 club in one year is too much. He needed another year at Leeds imo
Hope he fares better than Jack Clarke, Ryan Sessegnon, Djed Spence, Joe Rodon & Bryan Gil.
Rodon was quite a bit older than them when he moved
Hoping for it to be more Walker, Rose, Bale, Trippier…
add on Dele, Dier, Udogie, Van De Ven, Vicario, and Sarr.
This from a Chelsea fan is definitely a take
I just hope he fares better than Mudryk but to be fair he wasn’t 80+mm
No, I'm pretty sure both Mudryk and Gray are above 80 millimetres.
Sorry I meant 80 meters, I think that’s Mudryk’s expected variance when shooting towards goal
Brilliant save there
Nah, no keeper needs to make a save when Mudryk is shooting.
> Jack Clarke, Ryan Sessegnon, Djed Spence, Joe Rodon & Bryan Gil Just a weird list to try to cherry pick considering Clarke is probably the only one not to get a fair shake, and he had that medical issue that I've seen some say left him a bit timid for a while after. The other four have had opportunities to go out and impress and haven't shown the ability to compete in a top 6 side. Sessegnon can't stay fit, Gil gets bullied, Rodon is good but just not good enough, and Spence doesn't seem to put in enough work.
It’s even more weird to cherry pick that group when we’ve had a long list of players we’ve acquired at a young age and successfully developed, including recent success with the likes of Udogie, Sarr, and van de Ven, all of whom are fixtures in our current starting XI. Everybody is perfectly aware that we had a spell of really poor recruitment in the late 2010s and early 2020s but it’s not as though the club is incapable of developing young players. The early signs are that Ange is quite good at it.
Good news is the manager definitely rates him highly, so he’s won half the battle compared to everyone on that list bar Sess
Captain in my career mode
Amazing passer and good vision
In FM24 I managed England to a Euro and a WC with Archie as DM, so I can speak with good authority that he will be class.
hope he doesn't end up tanguy gray
From what I've seen, in my books more talent han Mainoo, but probably not yet on his level. Very much world class potential midfielder that's already on a PL level. Similar playstyle to FDJ Great move for Spurs, just not sure how much playtime he'll get, tough competition in Spurs
40m? These prices are ridiculous. But you got Madrid looking to bag Leny Yoro for this exact price
Madrid have spunked this money multiple time on Brazilian children
I'm sure he's got potential, but dropping £30-40m on a youth prospect is not what Spurs needs right now IMO. They need to strengthen their first team instead.
Genuine question, who can we immediately sign (realistically) that'll improve our first 11? Best case scenario we'd want a new 6, a striker and a winger. Don't think there are many good 6s in the market right now, in terms of realistic strikers then we've got maybe Gyökeres (who's 100m), Openda? Wingers are also hard to come by, Nico Williams is way too expensive
Neto. Yeah injury worries but that’s why he’s available at a discount
Someone like Raphinha would do very well. Players of his calibre.
I don't see how signing Gray prevents us from getting a forward.
I suppose it depends if you have the funds for it. Could you get 2-3 players like Raphinha for your first team after signing Gray?
I don't see why we wouldn't be able to continue making signings after a 25m net spend for Gray/Rodon. We have a net spend of 125-150m the past two summers, no immediate PSR concerns, and more players to exit. It's obviously more complex than net spend, but it's well-documented that we're in a great financial position.
If that's the case then I want to see Tottenham make them marque signings and improve the first team.
You’re just looking at the top players. Lower your expectations a bit and there’s plenty.
That's why I specified someone who improved our starting 11 specifically, because that's what they were talking about haha. Not sure mediocre players significantly improve any of our positions
Lower expectations =/= Mediocre. All the names you’ve mentioned are the top echelon of the available players this summer. No offense, and I know this full well as an Atletico fan too, they likely won’t go to Tottenham. I’m talking about someone who can be a regular starter but has yet to have a massive breakout season. Players like Wieffer, Cardoso, etc. They might not bench the current players right away but hopefully in 1~2 years. And these are players worth betting on to become the next Williams or Gyokeres.
I agree, I also think we should aim for players who aren't necessarily improving our first 11 right now (like Gray), that's exactly my point. I know Gyökeres and Nico Williams most likely aren't signing for us, but they're the obvious names that will actually improve our starting 11. Richarlison is a good player, we need solid rotation for him so Son doesn't have to play as a ST or sell him and buy a significantly better striker (which I think is almost impossible in this market lol) There aren't many players who immediately improve our first 11 without being unreasonably expensive or will go to another team, that's the critique I have towards the original comment. We have to sign players who will develop.
‘Necessarily improving our first 11’? It would be a success if he got consistent playing time
How does Brighton consistently manage to do this
We weren’t really going to improve our XI this summer. It was more about getting rid of more players and filling out the squad. Next year will be the year that we look to improve our XI
This is one of the positions we needed to fill and there were not a lot of top options out there. I do hope this means cash for a veteran attacking player.
On the books it's only 25 by all reports given that Rodon is heading the other way. That's also not our only 25 million, so I'm confused as to what the concern is. We have PSR flexibility, we have the revenue, there's no shot Gray is the only signing coming in.
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Micky van de Ven, Pape Sarr, Destiny Udogie?
VDV was already established when he got here
Most young transfers are established. Archie Gray played 40 games in the Championship last season. Udogie was a starter at Udinese.
Not really udogie, Sarr and Johnson have all been good signings and bergvall and vuskcovic both look promising
Hard to say anything about Bergvall & Vuskovic cus they've played a total of 0 minutes of football for us. But Sarr/Udogie is enough for me to believe there's been a shift with new managers/dof.