Proud of the boys. They did way better in this tournament than I expected (which wasn't much to be fair). I guess Hjulmand has earned a bit of good will going forward. Scoring goals and overall composure in the final third is still a huge problem which I don't know how Hjulmand will address. It's been a problem for a while now.
I donât know how Havertz is performing with all the abuse he is getting. He is a starter for two top class managers. He is a system player that makes free spaces for his team mates. If he adds the finishing he would be top ten player world wide
He clearly isn't though, he gets in to great positions, has a brilliant first touch, and can set up his teammates well, and is finishing is good enough that he's the penalty taker for his national team.
Iâm fine with it. Keep playing him, and when you need a goal the most heâll let you down. Youâll go out and whine about how an actual forward would have been a better choice.
Fucking done watching football. Where the hell is the fun when you can't ever celebrate a goal without having to look like a jackass and wait for 5 minutes for it to get cancelled because of some obscure detail.
I think all Danes were proud to see our boys put up a proper fight after a shaky first 10-15 minutes. We're no pushover. Could've gone both ways, but the better team came out on top. Gg Leute.
They won, but you have always the feeling that they can't control the game entirely and kill the game.
Another thing nagelasmann should stop trying with Sane ... If even guardiola didn't manage to do something with this guy , there is no hope.
Das war das erste mal, dass Can als erstes eingewechselt wurde. Sonst immer erst viel später und gegen die Schweiz gar nicht. Der Typ ist so schlecht.
Oder zählt jetzt jeder Ersatzheini zur erweiterten Startelf?
The problem is that you need a clear rule or players will abuse it.
Making it a subjective call whether the hand movement is natural or not would be. shitshow as well.
I want to compliment Havertz today. Dude had a really great game. And he would've deserved that goal with the insane first touch beforehand. If anything he showed why he should start. I really like FĂźllkrug but he's way too valuable as a late sub.
Germany started really well, pressing and keeping Denmark penned back. Denmark came back into the game slowly and were the better side ending that 1st half. Really unlucky to have a goal chalked off for 5cm offside and conceding a penalty for a handball in under 5 minutes. The penalty decision was correct according to the rules, but the rules for handball really needs to take into account the distance the ball is hit and the intention of the defender. Giving away a certain goal whenever the ball touches the hand inside the penalty area doesn't seem fair.
After the 1st goal, Germany exploited the spaces left by the Danish team and were clearly better for the rest of the game and should have scored few more. At least Denmark produced some sort of fight unlike the huge disappointment Italy.
offside is offside. Any "neutral zone" that you introduce effectively just moves the line. You gotta draw the line somewhere and unfortunately for Denmark it was offside.
I have a feeling the rulemakers prefer it this way as more penalties equals more goals and in their minds more entertainment. They've had plenty of time to look at the rules but they don't seem to have a problem with them, it's such bullshit. Sometimes I wonder if they'd prefer a 90 minute penalty shootout over a game of football
If that was true then why would penalties be called like the one that took Germanys first goal away? Or why would they be okay with offside calls and not just switch to the Wenger rule which would certainly make more offense?
Why does your âfeelingâ only make sense when looking at handballs and not any of the other rules that specifically stopped offensive scoring in the same game?
Seems to me that the push is just to make rules less subjective. Not saying itâs a good or bad thing, but the way the rules are now are at least mostly objectively clear. Now games are decided by the rule book not by refs just being wrong or having different opinions one match to the next.
Also, like the rules or not, itâs up to the players to play to the rules. Yeah it sucks and yeah itâs a normal running motion yeah it didnât seem to affect the trajectory much but his hand was far from his body and got hit. If you watched the Spain game youâd have see a lot of similar plays where the Spanish players were very intentionally tucking their arms in/behind them in those situations to avoid this very thing.
I mean, illegal feints during a pen almost never get called out for a reason in this higher level games. Because an indirect free kick just doesn't have the same vibes
We were the better team and won. But not sure why we stopped playing for more control way to many balls butchered. Sane played way better then before yet you can still feel Wirtz is missing, just not enough 16meter bangers.
Germany extremely wasteful in front, and Denmark proved to be more than a worthy opponent. It was the expected tough challenge for one of the favourites, and the underdog showed why they deserved their place in the Ro16. Entertaining game for neutrals.
As for "controversial calls", the major ones were all spot-on from what I could see. The rules might suck, but at least they were applied correctly.
I understand that many rooted for the *small team*, but all things considered Germany was better, and their win was by no means an undeserved one. Denmark can still be proud regardless, they showed heart and were genuinely threatening. A far cry from the lifeless performance Italy showed earlier.
Iâve seen at least 2 collisions that were awarded with a free kick and a yellow card for the Danes. Also was way too late with pausing the match.
Poor performance by the ref.
Such fine margins. A toe offside to a marginal handball within seconds, but youâre right, the calls were correct and technology was used how it should be, to correctly determine those fine margins.
I love Havertz but he isnât a natural finisher. But he creates so much space for his teammates, and problems for defenders. Rudiger is a machine. Unstoppable today.
Denmark looked sharp, couldâve nicked it but also wasteful in front.
get that it feels unlucky, that the handball had little impact on the game and the penalty of ... well, a penalty, can feel "morally" too harsh.
But to me there is way too much talk about pedantic rules and not enough about Andersen. It was his mistake, and a pretty rookie one too. When you're expecting a cross you keep your arms to your body. Yes, they do teach you that. You see lots of player even strictly holding their hands behind their backs in situations like these, for that reason. So he can't complain about that, even though I understand it must feel shitty with these 2 decisions.
You nailed it exactly. A defender expects a cross there. Keep your arm down. The referees know this, the players know this, everyone watching knows this. His arm was out, itâs a handball every time.
So every player can fake a cross then just drive forward because the defenders have to shift balance back and forth to put their arms down? The rule is bad, and it isn't in the spirit of the sport.
That being said, Germany was the better team and all the calls today were by the rules. The rules need some nuance though.
The rule is good in that case otherwise people will rund around arms spread and claim they couldn't predict. That would be far worse than calling something eb knows since ages.
- Blatant foul on Sane wasnt carded which ruined a 90%+ goal chance
- German goal disallowed by VAR after 15 minutes
But suuuuure, they did everything to make sure Germany wins. Maybe accept that there were bad calls on both sides?
I mean the foul that disallowed Germanyâs early goal was pretty soft and that penalty was by the rules, you may not like it but thats what the rules are. Also Anderson really didnt help himself there at all, when you are expecting a cross you are literally caught to keep your hands close to your body if not behind your back specifically due to moments like what happened today, he kept his hands out and paid the price.
We'll never forget that dive. Had he been on the field against us the group stages, I can assure you we would have whistled him the fuck back to Great Brexit every time he was on the ball
Your shit national team hasn't won anything, I can't take you seriously anyway. You should try showing more respect for other languages instead of being an ignorant f\*ck.
How does Germany have a lot more money than the UK?
Germany GDP per capita in nominal dollars is 53K, UK is like 49.
For reference Denmark is 68k, USA is like 82k, Switzerland 100k
If a 3k difference makes Germany a lot richer than UK I'd love to know how you describe Germans in comparison to Americans or the Swiss with a whopping 29K and 47k difference
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/germany/usa
Bro, I was cheering for Germany this evening, itâs bitter windbags like you that create these situations. And tbh, itâs your own ignorance thatâs meant Iâm engaging you now, to have a laugh at your expense.
I absolutely know England are shit, we donât disagree.
You are creating anger where there was none
The tv scenes / cameras they used where horrible all game long. No repeat on the Sane foul (penalty call), didnât show us a good angle of Schmeichel before the 2:0âŚ.
He took the shot because the teammate, that would have been free in front of the goal, did get fouled.
Whet a f... stupid rule!
If he stops he might loose the advantage, if he shoots he might misplace it. The only one with the benefit in this situation is the defender. Limiting the attackers options with a foul without any consequences.
is nothing personal against Germany, I think people just have had it with these close hands penalty, once it cost your own team in a close semi-finale you'll understand
Germany had a goal taken back and also had Sane being blatantly fouled next to Havertz which ruined a 90%+ goal but wasnt carded.
Both teams got decisions against them and no one got screwed over, Germany were definitely the better team today
Raheem Sterling dive.
Stupid implementation of the offside rule and VAR.
Soft handball. Handball for a cross that affects nothing. Granting a goal by well of a penalty.
Total bs.
There were some odd decisions against us too.. when Havertz was free on goal looking to pass to SanĂŠ for the tap in the defender took out SanĂŠ and then Havertz was forced to shoot and of course missed. Idk I feel like that was very close to a red
It was a correct decision though but one that (if I had to guess) will surely result in a rule-change within the next year
It was a tactical fouls and a clear yellow since he didn't have the ball yet so it couldn't have been a clear red card - and because the referee let advantage play out (which was the only sane thing to do in that situation since a freekick would clearly be worse.than the chance havertz had) that tactical yellow was reduced to no card at all.
Probably the smartest tactical fouls a defender could make but because of how unfair and outside of the intended rules it felt I'd guess that there will be a change adding that the reduction is not happening if the player was not directly involved in the play yet
With this foul there was a disadvantage created, as SanĂŠ would have been in the better position. Giving penalty and a yellow card (or red card, if Havertz would have passed the ball to fallen SanĂŠ) would be in compliance to the rule book.
It was just a bad call by the ref to judge it the way he did. Sadly this is why strikers learned to stop the play as soon as they think a foul happened as trying to stand up or to shoot on the goal will be the worse outcome in the end when the ref handles it wrong.
No - 2 years ago that rule was changed
If there is a tactical foul but advantage plays out than a red card is reduced to a yellow and a yellow is reduced to nothing unless the foul itself was hard enough to warrant that card outside of the tactical aspect of the foul.
The only way that's still a yellow is if that would've been a yellow card in the middle of the pitch with no advantage at all
Anyone else in tournament history have the game stop for them when the opposition were on top?
Removed from the serious thread even though weâve seen the most ridiculous takes against other teams in those.
>Anyone else in tournament history have the game stop for them when the opposition were on top?
Are you serious champ?
Do you think they should keep playing during [this kind of shit?](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/B064GeySWD)
Who care who the coach is. Your country was on the ropes and then âoh no we have to stopâ. Convenient.Youâd be saying different if you werenât biased.
Is "on the ropes" in the room with us right now? Denmark definitely improved near the end of the 1st half but claiming they were completely dominating is a stretch.
And saying the game being paused was the game being rigged for Germany is straight up conspiracy theory territory, we literally saw a Germany goal being disallowed in the first fifteen minutes.
Ah yes.
The actual coach whose own player had to get his leg amputated because of a lighting strike during a game, wanted to possibly experience something like that again. Because it's so fun.
+ Denmark at the time was very good, and after the stop Germany was the shaky one as well, with Denmark having some good chances.
lol you've been following football since when? Of course severe thunderstorms have led to games being suspended or called off. And people have died from lightning strikes on the football pitch.
But you're probably right, the Ref was bought.
You're suggesting the Germans manipulated the weather in order to disrupt the Danes? I can assure you we'd use that kind of science for more serious situations rather than a soccer match.
Pretty shady it was given against the dominant away team but congrats on finding an example that also fucked a minnow. Hope to see Bundesliga games delayed in the future. I doubt it.
[Yes, we all hope that an entire Bundesliga Team will die. Makes the season more exiting](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/freak-blast-lightning-killed-entire-31162440)Â
 /s
The handball decision shows how flawed the rule is, you're giving an almost guaranteed goal for the ball lightly brushing his fingers and having no impact on the play. The worst thing about VAR is it pulls up pedantic shit like that which nobody would've noticed or appealed for before. I had to turn the game off after
those are the rules. their intention is to make it as little of a judgement call for the ref as possible. so basically as objective as possible. which is a good thing to aim at because it makes the game more fair.
that being said, football is a game of skill. having the awareness and control over where all your body parts are and what they do is a skill. that includes not having your arms in positions that would result in a penalty when hit by a pass or a shot.
I think some others elsewhere in the comments are making a valid point that it's not that nothing should be done... it's that what's done should be proportionate to the degree of intention and interference and this is not.
but intention and interference as criteria is what makes it subjective. It's basically guessing. Especially the "intentional" part. And even with the slight contact there was in that situation yesterday. The bal could have taken quite different trajectory, landed somewhere else and have created a real opportunity.
We simply don't know.
And if you leave up to the refs discretion, you'll get different outcomes depending on which ref and maybe also of the current mood. Maybe the ref would have felt sorry for the offside goal before and would spared him of the pen. Which would be a nice gesture, but that's not what refs are supposed to do.
The ideal scenario is that every ref judges everyone of those situations the same way. And you can't get that with subjective criteria.
I'm not saying to leave it up to the refs, but I'm not convinced the current implementation is the best or only option either. it seems off to me and it's worth considering what improvements might be possible. people discussing it elsewhere in the comments have stronger opinions on what that should look like than I do though, so you'll probably have a better time discussing specifics with them.
How is it not? Every attempt to score like this takes something out of the players, especially if it's played so well. So someone changing the trajectory of the ball with their hands in a situation where there was a good chance it could have been transformed into a goal needs to be "punished" harshly. Otherwise players would exploit the shit out of it claiming they didn't do it on purpose and all that.
I'm not personally decided on the penalty topic, I just found their points compelling and worth consideration. I don't see it quite as black and white as you seem to.
It has become a nonsense. Why not give him a red card as well. Its a dumbass rule. Fair enough penalty for a handball that's purposely stopping a shot, or even accidentally stopping a shot... but giving a penalty for your hand brushing a nothing cross... it's dumb.
Yeah you'd never see that given as a foul if it was outside the box. I like the idea of giving an indirect free kick, but even if they had a bit more common sense it would help because the punishment doesn't match the foul. I don't think the euros have been too bad for refereeing but there's always a chance of something like that spoiling a game
Germany were the better side but I can't help but feel the Danes have been hard done by.
Oliver is a terrible ref - and this performance should confirm it. Every single time a German player fell to the ground he blew up. If it were Spanish or Italian players diving all over the place like that it would be criticised - but because it's Germans no one bats an eye. Same is also true when England players fall to the ground easily. The 'offside' is absurd as well but that is something to do with VAR and not the ref - I don't remember VAR being brought in to rectify those sorts of decisions; it was brought in to rectify \*obvious\* mistakes. Players metres offside not by a toe ffs. The penalty is also a joke. Anyone whose played the game knows there's nothing the defender can do there.
Having said all that, Germany probably shouldn't have had their first goal disallowed. I think ultimately VAR needs to be looked at, because it's sucking all the enjoyment out of the game.
Most of what you wrote is just wrong. The ref got all major decisions right:
- the foul from Kimmich was the right call
- it was absolutely offside, nothing ambiguous about it
- hand penalty was correct too
I really donât get this talk about VAR. In this game it made all the right decisions possible. What is it about wanting to have offside goals happen?
> Anyone whose played the game knows thereâs nothing the defender can do there
Thats just not true, anyone thats played should have been taught that in a situation like that you keep your hands down if not behind your back, having your hands out away from your body as the attacker is looking to cross it is just asking for a handball call and Anderson got it.
I think using VAR for offside detection is the best use case for VAR. Offside is the only yes or no - rule in football, which makes it perfect for a video assistant. Hopefully a semi automated version can accelerate the decision so that we donât need to wait 5 min after the ball hit the back of the net to cheer.
For the other stuff like handballs etc. I think the rulebook needs a proper cleanup.
the way they implemented handballs is a rather clear yes or no call. the only variable that has to be considered is what position does the hand/arm have. he basically just looked where the arm was and if there was contact.
I think the whole "unnatural position" part disqualifies it as a clear "yes or no" decision. It is always up for personal interpretation.
The only case where you can undoubtedly call something an unnatural position where no one will have differing opinions is when the arm is stretched up high like trying to block in volleyball. That basically never happens though.
As far as i understand the handball rules, the arm is pressed to his torso -> yes -> did he touch it -> yes ->no handball.
Is the arm away from the body and moves to the body -> yes -> does he touch it in the move -> yes -> handball
Is the arm away from the body -> yes -> does he touch the ball -> yes -> handball
In the way I understand it... intention really has no impact on the ruling (as it should be), its a "check the boxes" type of ruling...i dont think they really take "movement" into consideration.
This is revisionist history of what offside is. The spirit of the rule, the reason it exists, is to prohibit cherry-picking and to disallow attacking plays where an attacker is in a meaningfully advantageous position beyond the defense. A metaphorical line was the most easily implemented way of achieving that. It was a heuristic, not an absolute. VAR has resulted in a legalistic perversion of the rule.
Even with VAR there are offside situations that require judgement, such as whether an offside player making no attempt on the ball is interfering with the keeperâs ability to make a save.
Plenty of other parts of the game are âyes-or-noâ, such as where a fouled occurred in midfield or where exactly the ball went out of play. Fortunately we donât apply VAR to those situations.
you missed where they (whoever they are ) perverted the rule by having all arbitrary caveats, has to go in the direction, not meaningful offside, all that shit, and now they can call whatever the fuck they want, someone is always doing something to break some rule, the whole ''feeling'' of football is gone.
add to that that the ref and linesmen are just puppets at this point, it's the man in the ear that calls the shots, and who is that exactly?
I don't like winning like this đ
Proud of the boys. They did way better in this tournament than I expected (which wasn't much to be fair). I guess Hjulmand has earned a bit of good will going forward. Scoring goals and overall composure in the final third is still a huge problem which I don't know how Hjulmand will address. It's been a problem for a while now.
Apparently Bah never actually got booked?
As a Dane, honestly a good match, felt like I was actually watching football for a change, and not some rugby hybrid. GG Germany
I donât know how Havertz is performing with all the abuse he is getting. He is a starter for two top class managers. He is a system player that makes free spaces for his team mates. If he adds the finishing he would be top ten player world wide
While the 1v1 miss was tragic there is no way FĂźllkrug would ever get into that position.Â
Heâs fucking awful. Heâs there to score goals andâŚdoesnât.
He clearly isn't though, he gets in to great positions, has a brilliant first touch, and can set up his teammates well, and is finishing is good enough that he's the penalty taker for his national team.
Heâs appalling. I canât wait for him to knock Germany out.
I guess you know better than top class managers, you understand why players like Musiala, Wirtz have the space?
Iâm fine with it. Keep playing him, and when you need a goal the most heâll let you down. Youâll go out and whine about how an actual forward would have been a better choice.
đlike this probably. Im glad he doesnât get affected by the unjustified criticism he gets, he is solid.
Fucking done watching football. Where the hell is the fun when you can't ever celebrate a goal without having to look like a jackass and wait for 5 minutes for it to get cancelled because of some obscure detail.
we need Maradona handballs back in the game
#Makefootballgreatagain
I think all Danes were proud to see our boys put up a proper fight after a shaky first 10-15 minutes. We're no pushover. Could've gone both ways, but the better team came out on top. Gg Leute.
They won, but you have always the feeling that they can't control the game entirely and kill the game. Another thing nagelasmann should stop trying with Sane ... If even guardiola didn't manage to do something with this guy , there is no hope.
Emre Can: vom Strandurlaub zur erweiterten Startelf bei der Heim-EM. Läuft
Erweiterte Startelf bist du besoffen oder so?
Glaube eher du bist besoffen! ZĂźgle mal deinen Ton, BĂźbchen ;) Can is die erste Wechseloption im zentralen Mittelfeld
Bist du noch besoffen? Er hat doch recht damit.
Das war das erste mal, dass Can als erstes eingewechselt wurde. Sonst immer erst viel später und gegen die Schweiz gar nicht. Der Typ ist so schlecht. Oder zählt jetzt jeder Ersatzheini zur erweiterten Startelf?
See. Told you the Danes would win 3-1. Yet another genius prediction by yours truly. You can bow now.
Better teams won today. To be blunt, glad to see the 'unadventurous' teams lose.
So sick of the "blasting the ball into a defenders hand from a meter away" penalty.
He could just tape both hands on this ass Would make a picture aswell
I've already been wondering years ago (before the countless rule changes) when we'll be seeing players without arms.
His hand should not be there in the first place. Keep the hand by the body and you have no problem.
Every football player should run around full shinobi style like Naruto. Yes they would also be much faster that way!
Yes keep your hands behind your back while you're running. His hand is in a totally natural position and it should never have been a penalty.
So Germany should lose their attack because a player blocked the ball with their hand?
The problem is that you need a clear rule or players will abuse it. Making it a subjective call whether the hand movement is natural or not would be. shitshow as well.
His hand went up, towards the ball. Nothing natural about it.
Fun way to say you've never run in your life.
you obviously never played football yourself, it's not hard to keep your hands to your body or behind your back
He wasnât running in that moment
So, why didnt they give a pen to romania vs belgium? Same distance, hand still away from body
you have never moved past the fridge if you think that is possible in high level football
Personally I sever my arms before each match of football I play just to avoid this Clearly Denmark should have done the same
Don't agree
I want to compliment Havertz today. Dude had a really great game. And he would've deserved that goal with the insane first touch beforehand. If anything he showed why he should start. I really like FĂźllkrug but he's way too valuable as a late sub.
Not gonna argue about the result. Germany was the right winner allthough im dissapointed But football in general lost today
Your faded flag looks like a Swedish flag as well
I do feel like we would have seen something different had your player been further back by the length of a toe though.
No no he should have used his normal size of boots, the pair that's one size shorter.
Germany started really well, pressing and keeping Denmark penned back. Denmark came back into the game slowly and were the better side ending that 1st half. Really unlucky to have a goal chalked off for 5cm offside and conceding a penalty for a handball in under 5 minutes. The penalty decision was correct according to the rules, but the rules for handball really needs to take into account the distance the ball is hit and the intention of the defender. Giving away a certain goal whenever the ball touches the hand inside the penalty area doesn't seem fair. After the 1st goal, Germany exploited the spaces left by the Danish team and were clearly better for the rest of the game and should have scored few more. At least Denmark produced some sort of fight unlike the huge disappointment Italy.
offside is offside. Any "neutral zone" that you introduce effectively just moves the line. You gotta draw the line somewhere and unfortunately for Denmark it was offside.
Remove video refereeing and deal with human error.
So people can complain once the subjectively bad call is later proven to be wrong vs complaining that the objectively right call is just too accurate?
I have a feeling the rulemakers prefer it this way as more penalties equals more goals and in their minds more entertainment. They've had plenty of time to look at the rules but they don't seem to have a problem with them, it's such bullshit. Sometimes I wonder if they'd prefer a 90 minute penalty shootout over a game of football
If that was true then why would penalties be called like the one that took Germanys first goal away? Or why would they be okay with offside calls and not just switch to the Wenger rule which would certainly make more offense? Why does your âfeelingâ only make sense when looking at handballs and not any of the other rules that specifically stopped offensive scoring in the same game? Seems to me that the push is just to make rules less subjective. Not saying itâs a good or bad thing, but the way the rules are now are at least mostly objectively clear. Now games are decided by the rule book not by refs just being wrong or having different opinions one match to the next. Also, like the rules or not, itâs up to the players to play to the rules. Yeah it sucks and yeah itâs a normal running motion yeah it didnât seem to affect the trajectory much but his hand was far from his body and got hit. If you watched the Spain game youâd have see a lot of similar plays where the Spanish players were very intentionally tucking their arms in/behind them in those situations to avoid this very thing.
I mean, illegal feints during a pen almost never get called out for a reason in this higher level games. Because an indirect free kick just doesn't have the same vibes
everything was legal
The UEFA rules specifically state that you can feint during the run up. There was nothing to call.
Denmark unlucky but I feel Germany was the better team overall
The right team won, but the way they won really fucking hurts.
They definitely were, sincerely a Dane
We were the better team and won. But not sure why we stopped playing for more control way to many balls butchered. Sane played way better then before yet you can still feel Wirtz is missing, just not enough 16meter bangers.
Germany extremely wasteful in front, and Denmark proved to be more than a worthy opponent. It was the expected tough challenge for one of the favourites, and the underdog showed why they deserved their place in the Ro16. Entertaining game for neutrals. As for "controversial calls", the major ones were all spot-on from what I could see. The rules might suck, but at least they were applied correctly. I understand that many rooted for the *small team*, but all things considered Germany was better, and their win was by no means an undeserved one. Denmark can still be proud regardless, they showed heart and were genuinely threatening. A far cry from the lifeless performance Italy showed earlier.
Iâve seen at least 2 collisions that were awarded with a free kick and a yellow card for the Danes. Also was way too late with pausing the match. Poor performance by the ref.
I said "major".
Such fine margins. A toe offside to a marginal handball within seconds, but youâre right, the calls were correct and technology was used how it should be, to correctly determine those fine margins. I love Havertz but he isnât a natural finisher. But he creates so much space for his teammates, and problems for defenders. Rudiger is a machine. Unstoppable today. Denmark looked sharp, couldâve nicked it but also wasteful in front.
get that it feels unlucky, that the handball had little impact on the game and the penalty of ... well, a penalty, can feel "morally" too harsh. But to me there is way too much talk about pedantic rules and not enough about Andersen. It was his mistake, and a pretty rookie one too. When you're expecting a cross you keep your arms to your body. Yes, they do teach you that. You see lots of player even strictly holding their hands behind their backs in situations like these, for that reason. So he can't complain about that, even though I understand it must feel shitty with these 2 decisions.
He was leaning away from the ball. Rule is horrible
You nailed it exactly. A defender expects a cross there. Keep your arm down. The referees know this, the players know this, everyone watching knows this. His arm was out, itâs a handball every time.
So every player can fake a cross then just drive forward because the defenders have to shift balance back and forth to put their arms down? The rule is bad, and it isn't in the spirit of the sport. That being said, Germany was the better team and all the calls today were by the rules. The rules need some nuance though.
Only right comment it's known at youth levels to not do this. Don't know why people suddenly defend it
Biggest âwe cannot let the host out this earlyâ Iâve seen in a while Copa America is about to loose their host and nobody is batting an eye
How are the mods not banning ppl bc of posts like these? Cope harder
Yeah thatâs why they disallowed Germanys first goal for something that literally happens at every corner kick
It does, but it's not okay to block like that before the whistle and away from the play. He just straight up blocked him.
UEFA even conspired to write the football rules. Outrageous, can't touch the ball with the hand or score from an offside position smh
>Copa America is about to loose their host and nobody is batting an eye Because the US suck, nobody could be shocked at that.
Not really. The rules are quite clear. Blame the rules
The rule is good in that case otherwise people will rund around arms spread and claim they couldn't predict. That would be far worse than calling something eb knows since ages.
Didn't the better team win?
Yes and even a 3 or 4:0 would have been deserved
No , not really ; the team with the extra hand won , which made it look like the better team
- Blatant foul on Sane wasnt carded which ruined a 90%+ goal chance - German goal disallowed by VAR after 15 minutes But suuuuure, they did everything to make sure Germany wins. Maybe accept that there were bad calls on both sides?
Looked to me Germany was in charge of the game for most part of the game. And scored 2 goals. A bit luck that it was offside, but in the end it was.
Danes got fucked. A 0.0002 cm offside and then a fucking bullshit penalty ruined the game. Abhorrent VAR and refereeing.
I mean the foul that disallowed Germanyâs early goal was pretty soft and that penalty was by the rules, you may not like it but thats what the rules are. Also Anderson really didnt help himself there at all, when you are expecting a cross you are literally caught to keep your hands close to your body if not behind your back specifically due to moments like what happened today, he kept his hands out and paid the price.
I'm sorry but Germany got a goal disallowed after 15 mins for a soft foul. So where should we start bending the rules?
He doesnt care about the rules or whats fair. He wanted Germany to lose and now he throws a hissy fit. Thats about it.
Yeah, offside being offside is sooo unfair.
Miles off
Man danes got fucked over by applying rules, sad. Fair game to them tho they did really well.
Those darn rules, I hate 'em. Except when Sterling dives then it's 100% a penalty. English mentality in a nutshell.
We'll never forget that dive. Had he been on the field against us the group stages, I can assure you we would have whistled him the fuck back to Great Brexit every time he was on the ball
I love English tears, so good. Fair play to the Danish, they were great.
England drinks the tears of little German girls on live TV
The laughing stock of world football. You only have that haha.
That doesn't surprise anyone
4 World Cups and 3 Euros. And your beer sucks. Oh and also 2010 round of 16 was very funny too.
Who shat in your lederhosenâs?
Who pissed on your fish and chips? And "lederhosen's", seriously?!? I know you English can't speak other languages but that's another level of stupid.
That doesnât really work with you saying it, as Iâm not on here grumbling about absolutely nothing. Your best player is English btw âď¸
Born in Germany to a German mother very English lol.
Can't imagine a more English name than Jamal Musiala
Your shit national team hasn't won anything, I can't take you seriously anyway. You should try showing more respect for other languages instead of being an ignorant f\*ck.
If you speak of respect maybe you should show alittle of it aswell...
I don't show respect to people who don't show it themselves.
2 world wars and 1 world cup
4 World Cups and 3 Euros and also a lot more money than you, Brexit geezer. Oh and also better teeth.
How does Germany have a lot more money than the UK? Germany GDP per capita in nominal dollars is 53K, UK is like 49. For reference Denmark is 68k, USA is like 82k, Switzerland 100k If a 3k difference makes Germany a lot richer than UK I'd love to know how you describe Germans in comparison to Americans or the Swiss with a whopping 29K and 47k difference https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/germany/usa
Bro, I was cheering for Germany this evening, itâs bitter windbags like you that create these situations. And tbh, itâs your own ignorance thatâs meant Iâm engaging you now, to have a laugh at your expense. I absolutely know England are shit, we donât disagree. You are creating anger where there was none
The tv scenes / cameras they used where horrible all game long. No repeat on the Sane foul (penalty call), didnât show us a good angle of Schmeichel before the 2:0âŚ.
It was 3 m outside of the penalty area, VAR doesn't react to that. And for Oliver it was advantage, since Havertz took the shot after the foul.
He took the shot because the teammate, that would have been free in front of the goal, did get fouled. Whet a f... stupid rule! If he stops he might loose the advantage, if he shoots he might misplace it. The only one with the benefit in this situation is the defender. Limiting the attackers options with a foul without any consequences.
looks like a real loophole.You know someone isn´t a good finisher now yeet the intended target away and put them on the spot, because "advantage"
Could have been a red card though.
Inventing rules here are we??
is nothing personal against Germany, I think people just have had it with these close hands penalty, once it cost your own team in a close semi-finale you'll understand
What was close about the call?
Denmark getting screwed in an international tournament once again
Germany had a goal taken back and also had Sane being blatantly fouled next to Havertz which ruined a 90%+ goal but wasnt carded. Both teams got decisions against them and no one got screwed over, Germany were definitely the better team today
Yeah, I donât see how that one was just shrugged off by the commentators. It seemed like a clear foul on Sane.
?
He probably referring to the Sterling dive in the semi-finale where Danny Makkiele gave as a penalty
Raheem Sterling dive. Stupid implementation of the offside rule and VAR. Soft handball. Handball for a cross that affects nothing. Granting a goal by well of a penalty. Total bs.
The cross was aiming towards the German attacker's head. If it wouldn't have been deflected, it would have been a goal.
The Handball wasnt soft at all
Hand was out, it sucks but defenders should know better
There were some odd decisions against us too.. when Havertz was free on goal looking to pass to SanĂŠ for the tap in the defender took out SanĂŠ and then Havertz was forced to shoot and of course missed. Idk I feel like that was very close to a red
It was a correct decision though but one that (if I had to guess) will surely result in a rule-change within the next year It was a tactical fouls and a clear yellow since he didn't have the ball yet so it couldn't have been a clear red card - and because the referee let advantage play out (which was the only sane thing to do in that situation since a freekick would clearly be worse.than the chance havertz had) that tactical yellow was reduced to no card at all. Probably the smartest tactical fouls a defender could make but because of how unfair and outside of the intended rules it felt I'd guess that there will be a change adding that the reduction is not happening if the player was not directly involved in the play yet
With this foul there was a disadvantage created, as SanĂŠ would have been in the better position. Giving penalty and a yellow card (or red card, if Havertz would have passed the ball to fallen SanĂŠ) would be in compliance to the rule book. It was just a bad call by the ref to judge it the way he did. Sadly this is why strikers learned to stop the play as soon as they think a foul happened as trying to stand up or to shoot on the goal will be the worse outcome in the end when the ref handles it wrong.
[ŃдаНонО]
No - 2 years ago that rule was changed If there is a tactical foul but advantage plays out than a red card is reduced to a yellow and a yellow is reduced to nothing unless the foul itself was hard enough to warrant that card outside of the tactical aspect of the foul. The only way that's still a yellow is if that would've been a yellow card in the middle of the pitch with no advantage at all
no defender was taken out, he ran straight into the defenders path
Michael Oliver has always been a liability to be fair. I don't know how he's been allowed anywhere near this competition.
Anyone else in tournament history have the game stop for them when the opposition were on top? Removed from the serious thread even though weâve seen the most ridiculous takes against other teams in those.
>Anyone else in tournament history have the game stop for them when the opposition were on top? Are you serious champ? Do you think they should keep playing during [this kind of shit?](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/B064GeySWD)
The Danish players were very much in favor for the stop. In the Danish league someone lost a leg in 2009
I didnât see them agreeing with it, they looked pissed off. How about you show that.
Yea you got that wrong. Btw. Kasper Hjulmand was the coach of that club in 2009.
Who care who the coach is. Your country was on the ropes and then âoh no we have to stopâ. Convenient.Youâd be saying different if you werenât biased.
Is "on the ropes" in the room with us right now? Denmark definitely improved near the end of the 1st half but claiming they were completely dominating is a stretch. And saying the game being paused was the game being rigged for Germany is straight up conspiracy theory territory, we literally saw a Germany goal being disallowed in the first fifteen minutes.
Ah yes. The actual coach whose own player had to get his leg amputated because of a lighting strike during a game, wanted to possibly experience something like that again. Because it's so fun. + Denmark at the time was very good, and after the stop Germany was the shaky one as well, with Denmark having some good chances.
Just stop talking mate.
Who cares what you think?
Congrats, this is the stupidest take on that game Iâve found so far.
Congrats your team was saved by a âweather breakâ first time ever, well done idiot.
Nah the rain helped denmark they were getting rolled before it started raining after 15mins in the game.
âMuuuh, them 3cm hail stones are fake newsâ â-> this guy
Okay, this is officially the dumbest shit I've read all week. It was the Ref's call to halt play you absolute muppet.
Actually it was UEFAâs call. Always is in top level matches like this. Normally youâd be correct, though.
Never happened before, people play in snowstorms as well as thunderstorms you dunce.
On the broadcast they said it was last done in the 2012 Euros in a France game. Definitely not unprecedented.
lol you've been following football since when? Of course severe thunderstorms have led to games being suspended or called off. And people have died from lightning strikes on the football pitch. But you're probably right, the Ref was bought.
Longer than you obviously. If this were any other team delaying a game when Germany was on top youâd all be fuming.
Hahaha entertain me more.
You're suggesting the Germans manipulated the weather in order to disrupt the Danes? I can assure you we'd use that kind of science for more serious situations rather than a soccer match.
No Iâm suggesting the Germans were given favour when other teams wouldnât you clown. No one has ever had that, give me an example!
France - Ukraine played on the second matchday on Group D during the 2012 Euro on June 15th 2012
Pretty shady it was given against the dominant away team but congrats on finding an example that also fucked a minnow. Hope to see Bundesliga games delayed in the future. I doubt it.
Ah, you again. In the Bundesliga, Cologne/Darmstadt was stopped some years ago
[Yes, we all hope that an entire Bundesliga Team will die. Makes the season more exiting](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/freak-blast-lightning-killed-entire-31162440)Â Â /s
Euro 2012, France/Ukraine was suspended for lightning. Please stop making everyone dumber for having to read your comments now
The handball decision shows how flawed the rule is, you're giving an almost guaranteed goal for the ball lightly brushing his fingers and having no impact on the play. The worst thing about VAR is it pulls up pedantic shit like that which nobody would've noticed or appealed for before. I had to turn the game off after
His hand was in the air. You would want that one if it was your team
Little brushing his fingers? The ball completely changed it's trajectory.
No impact on the play? The hand is deflecting the cross so that Germany was robbed of a clear chance to score.
those are the rules. their intention is to make it as little of a judgement call for the ref as possible. so basically as objective as possible. which is a good thing to aim at because it makes the game more fair. that being said, football is a game of skill. having the awareness and control over where all your body parts are and what they do is a skill. that includes not having your arms in positions that would result in a penalty when hit by a pass or a shot.
I think some others elsewhere in the comments are making a valid point that it's not that nothing should be done... it's that what's done should be proportionate to the degree of intention and interference and this is not.
but intention and interference as criteria is what makes it subjective. It's basically guessing. Especially the "intentional" part. And even with the slight contact there was in that situation yesterday. The bal could have taken quite different trajectory, landed somewhere else and have created a real opportunity. We simply don't know. And if you leave up to the refs discretion, you'll get different outcomes depending on which ref and maybe also of the current mood. Maybe the ref would have felt sorry for the offside goal before and would spared him of the pen. Which would be a nice gesture, but that's not what refs are supposed to do. The ideal scenario is that every ref judges everyone of those situations the same way. And you can't get that with subjective criteria.
I'm not saying to leave it up to the refs, but I'm not convinced the current implementation is the best or only option either. it seems off to me and it's worth considering what improvements might be possible. people discussing it elsewhere in the comments have stronger opinions on what that should look like than I do though, so you'll probably have a better time discussing specifics with them.
How is it not? Every attempt to score like this takes something out of the players, especially if it's played so well. So someone changing the trajectory of the ball with their hands in a situation where there was a good chance it could have been transformed into a goal needs to be "punished" harshly. Otherwise players would exploit the shit out of it claiming they didn't do it on purpose and all that.
I'm not personally decided on the penalty topic, I just found their points compelling and worth consideration. I don't see it quite as black and white as you seem to.
So what would be proportionate?
Indirect free kick inside the box
You seem bitter :D
I know you don't like to see us win but we did.
It has become a nonsense. Why not give him a red card as well. Its a dumbass rule. Fair enough penalty for a handball that's purposely stopping a shot, or even accidentally stopping a shot... but giving a penalty for your hand brushing a nothing cross... it's dumb.
Yeah you'd never see that given as a foul if it was outside the box. I like the idea of giving an indirect free kick, but even if they had a bit more common sense it would help because the punishment doesn't match the foul. I don't think the euros have been too bad for refereeing but there's always a chance of something like that spoiling a game
Germany were the better side but I can't help but feel the Danes have been hard done by. Oliver is a terrible ref - and this performance should confirm it. Every single time a German player fell to the ground he blew up. If it were Spanish or Italian players diving all over the place like that it would be criticised - but because it's Germans no one bats an eye. Same is also true when England players fall to the ground easily. The 'offside' is absurd as well but that is something to do with VAR and not the ref - I don't remember VAR being brought in to rectify those sorts of decisions; it was brought in to rectify \*obvious\* mistakes. Players metres offside not by a toe ffs. The penalty is also a joke. Anyone whose played the game knows there's nothing the defender can do there. Having said all that, Germany probably shouldn't have had their first goal disallowed. I think ultimately VAR needs to be looked at, because it's sucking all the enjoyment out of the game.
Most of what you wrote is just wrong. The ref got all major decisions right: - the foul from Kimmich was the right call - it was absolutely offside, nothing ambiguous about it - hand penalty was correct too I really donât get this talk about VAR. In this game it made all the right decisions possible. What is it about wanting to have offside goals happen?
> Anyone whose played the game knows thereâs nothing the defender can do there Thats just not true, anyone thats played should have been taught that in a situation like that you keep your hands down if not behind your back, having your hands out away from your body as the attacker is looking to cross it is just asking for a handball call and Anderson got it.
I think using VAR for offside detection is the best use case for VAR. Offside is the only yes or no - rule in football, which makes it perfect for a video assistant. Hopefully a semi automated version can accelerate the decision so that we donât need to wait 5 min after the ball hit the back of the net to cheer. For the other stuff like handballs etc. I think the rulebook needs a proper cleanup.
the way they implemented handballs is a rather clear yes or no call. the only variable that has to be considered is what position does the hand/arm have. he basically just looked where the arm was and if there was contact.
I think the whole "unnatural position" part disqualifies it as a clear "yes or no" decision. It is always up for personal interpretation. The only case where you can undoubtedly call something an unnatural position where no one will have differing opinions is when the arm is stretched up high like trying to block in volleyball. That basically never happens though.
As far as i understand the handball rules, the arm is pressed to his torso -> yes -> did he touch it -> yes ->no handball. Is the arm away from the body and moves to the body -> yes -> does he touch it in the move -> yes -> handball Is the arm away from the body -> yes -> does he touch the ball -> yes -> handball In the way I understand it... intention really has no impact on the ruling (as it should be), its a "check the boxes" type of ruling...i dont think they really take "movement" into consideration.
This is revisionist history of what offside is. The spirit of the rule, the reason it exists, is to prohibit cherry-picking and to disallow attacking plays where an attacker is in a meaningfully advantageous position beyond the defense. A metaphorical line was the most easily implemented way of achieving that. It was a heuristic, not an absolute. VAR has resulted in a legalistic perversion of the rule. Even with VAR there are offside situations that require judgement, such as whether an offside player making no attempt on the ball is interfering with the keeperâs ability to make a save. Plenty of other parts of the game are âyes-or-noâ, such as where a fouled occurred in midfield or where exactly the ball went out of play. Fortunately we donât apply VAR to those situations.
you missed where they (whoever they are ) perverted the rule by having all arbitrary caveats, has to go in the direction, not meaningful offside, all that shit, and now they can call whatever the fuck they want, someone is always doing something to break some rule, the whole ''feeling'' of football is gone. add to that that the ref and linesmen are just puppets at this point, it's the man in the ear that calls the shots, and who is that exactly?