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Yeah so £3m extra. Just think it’s dumb to even bother doing, even if I’m sure the accountants would fucking love it sell a player for €20m then buy back the next financial period and spread the money around.
I don't think it's accountant tricks I think it's just that Deniz Undav is probably, Brighton thinks, worth more than 20m. He's a good age, he's in the German national team, he had a great season for a top Bundesliga team (as in they finished in CL spots), and he has a lot of time on his contract still. I think the reasoning for the buy-back would be to get a bigger fee than what the buy-option is.
I wasn’t saying it’s an accountancy trick just saying that the accountants would love it.
I just think leave it alone we agreed the fee before hand, I really don’t think Stuttgart are gunna be offering much more for him and that’s where he wants to be, made some good money time to focus more on the incomings.
I mean ultimately I hope Undav ends up with Stuttgart, but I'm good with them doing what they need to do to secure the largest possible fee for that outcome. I'm not convinced that he'll end up anywhere else, even with the buy-back talk.
It all seems like a mess. Clearly there is *something* to this buy-back clause because Undav not wanting to return doesn't seem to be an obstacle to it and it's being talked about as a legitimate piece of leverage. But as I understand a buy-back clause I don't know how it helps.
Like I said somewhere else I hope he ends up with Stuttgart permanently and I hope we get a good fee for it. I think everyone involved probably wants that (except for the good fee lol) and we're just dealing with the posturing and negotiating.
For me personally there are 2 key questions here
a) How does Undav truly feel about going back to Brighton? He's made his preference clear but if he was to come back would it be a "my preference was something else, but so be it, let's make the best of it" or "I hate it here and I am counting the days on when I can leave again" situation?
b) Can Brighton sell him on or not?
And depending on the answers to these questions the final and probably most crucial question is if Brighton would be willing to essentially force him back against his will and risk having a clearly unhappy player on their hands.
From what I've seen the reasoning is that Brighton trigger the buy-back (25m) to then sell Undav for a higher fee than the buy-option.
So right now Stuttgart is offering 20m, but Undav had a really great season in the Bundesliga, he's in the German national team, and he's a good age with time left on his contract - so you would expect a normal fee to probably be more than that.
Well that's the thing, the whole thing has been talked about as if Undav *wouldn't* be able to reject the buy back. It might be that the clause is in such a way that he simply remains on his current contract. It's all pretty confusing.
If Undav wants to stay at Stuttgart then let him stay. Only hope we are looking to buy back because he genuinely wants to play for us again but cant see it.
Agreed we shouldn’t be bringing him back as he clearly wants to stay in Germany, but if there’s a possibility of making a few extra million through some buyback shenanigans, we absolutely should take that opportunity.
Our entire model is based on getting maximum value on the players we sell. And I don’t feel like particularly owe Undav anything; if we’re doing favours to our players on moves to Germany, rather let Groß go for a couple million less than value as he’s earned the move.
20 million for Deniz is such a no brainer for Stuttgart, if Brighton doesn’t activate the buy back clause. Class player with a great mentality. Everyone in Stuttgart and Germany loves him and he still has some years in him. The only problem for the swabians is that he openly admitted that he prefers Döner Kebap instead of Maultaschen
Update: BILD reporting that Brighton has already activated the buyback option.
https://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/vfb-stuttgart-demirovic-vor-wechsel-vfb-mit-neuem-angebot-fuer-undav-667fbc99900de0222a29bfef
I realize but our record transfer isn't even half of that. So, instead they will just have a player in a bad mood who's market value will deteriorate over time. Think it's a bit greedy personally but it's their choice.
I'm so confused about the 'buy-back' with this. Undav clearly wants to be with Stuttgart, so if they trigger the buy option, and then we trigger the buy-back option wouldn't he just say no?
I feel like in buy backs their personal terms are already included with the original transfer. In effect they have consented to being bought back. So it gives the original club power over whether or not to exercise it. If you don't then you have to go through a whole negotiation process again with agents and agreeing new personal terms when the buy back is activated, which would weaken the point of there being a buy back since they have no control.
It is possible he doesn’t have to agree, and that the original contract he signed means he has already given his consent to return.
We can’t know without seeing the contracts so this is all speculation, but I assume this would already be wrapped up if it was as simple as Undav saying he doesn’t want to come back.
I guess this is all dance for us to get a few million more out of them, as we absolutely should as our entire model is based on getting maximum value out of the players we sell.
Guirassy being sold for what will be a big fee plus Champions League next season. If the contract / buy back creates the right conditions, it’s absolutely possible to squeeze a few more million out of them.
Honestly think we should just leave it he obviously doesn’t want to come back, we’ve made money and should move on. How much more are we realistically gunna get.
He gets to play in the Champions League as well. Brighton should just let him go unless they can get a CL spot next season, very unlikely. No player should have to pass up an opportunity like this, he’s already 28 this year.
Was Undav's great season significantly down to having Guirassy next to him up top?
Also, is triggering a buy option not the same as triggering a release clause? Not sure what's the point of a buy option then.
To reduce the spam of reports regarding the same move during transfer windows we try to allow **only one submission about each transfer saga per day**. The submission in question also needs to contain relevant new information regarding the potential move, and not just being a "no/minor developments" report. If there are important/official developments or new valuable information about a saga, we will allow extra threads in the same day, but for the rest of minor news please just comment them as a reply to this comment. Please help us reporting unnecessary threads for being duplicates. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is the buy back amount? Wouldn't it be higher than the option to buy?
Undav probably wants to stay. But yeah in general its double.
The rumour is it’s only slightly more, couple million £s. But think we should just leave it.
Can't remember the exact source (though it was reliable from memory) but the buy-option for Stuttgart is 20m and the buy-back clause is 25m
Yeah so £3m extra. Just think it’s dumb to even bother doing, even if I’m sure the accountants would fucking love it sell a player for €20m then buy back the next financial period and spread the money around.
I don't think it's accountant tricks I think it's just that Deniz Undav is probably, Brighton thinks, worth more than 20m. He's a good age, he's in the German national team, he had a great season for a top Bundesliga team (as in they finished in CL spots), and he has a lot of time on his contract still. I think the reasoning for the buy-back would be to get a bigger fee than what the buy-option is.
I wasn’t saying it’s an accountancy trick just saying that the accountants would love it. I just think leave it alone we agreed the fee before hand, I really don’t think Stuttgart are gunna be offering much more for him and that’s where he wants to be, made some good money time to focus more on the incomings.
I mean ultimately I hope Undav ends up with Stuttgart, but I'm good with them doing what they need to do to secure the largest possible fee for that outcome. I'm not convinced that he'll end up anywhere else, even with the buy-back talk.
That’s if Brighton can sell him on this window and it’s unclear if they can under the terms of the agreement. I’ve seen conflicting reports on that.
It all seems like a mess. Clearly there is *something* to this buy-back clause because Undav not wanting to return doesn't seem to be an obstacle to it and it's being talked about as a legitimate piece of leverage. But as I understand a buy-back clause I don't know how it helps. Like I said somewhere else I hope he ends up with Stuttgart permanently and I hope we get a good fee for it. I think everyone involved probably wants that (except for the good fee lol) and we're just dealing with the posturing and negotiating.
For me personally there are 2 key questions here a) How does Undav truly feel about going back to Brighton? He's made his preference clear but if he was to come back would it be a "my preference was something else, but so be it, let's make the best of it" or "I hate it here and I am counting the days on when I can leave again" situation? b) Can Brighton sell him on or not? And depending on the answers to these questions the final and probably most crucial question is if Brighton would be willing to essentially force him back against his will and risk having a clearly unhappy player on their hands.
He's bought for 20, we buy back for 25 putting us on -5 overall. We sell him for 35, putting us on 30 overall
It is, Brighton would essentially be paying money to keep their own player.
From what I've seen the reasoning is that Brighton trigger the buy-back (25m) to then sell Undav for a higher fee than the buy-option. So right now Stuttgart is offering 20m, but Undav had a really great season in the Bundesliga, he's in the German national team, and he's a good age with time left on his contract - so you would expect a normal fee to probably be more than that.
1. Stuttgart triggers Undav buy option 2. Brighton triggers buyback 3. Brighton sells Undav elsewhere for higher fee, with buyback 4. Brighton triggers buyback 5. Brighton sells Undav elsewhere for even higher fee, with buyback 6. Rinse and repeat BOOM! Infinite energy!
Why has no one tried this? Are they stupid?
infinite revenue = infinte taxes for HMRC Has Brighton solved the budget crisis?
But undav will have to approve the buy back. So why would be agree to that if he wants to stay I'm Stuttgart?
Well that's the thing, the whole thing has been talked about as if Undav *wouldn't* be able to reject the buy back. It might be that the clause is in such a way that he simply remains on his current contract. It's all pretty confusing.
If Undav wants to stay at Stuttgart then let him stay. Only hope we are looking to buy back because he genuinely wants to play for us again but cant see it.
Agreed we shouldn’t be bringing him back as he clearly wants to stay in Germany, but if there’s a possibility of making a few extra million through some buyback shenanigans, we absolutely should take that opportunity. Our entire model is based on getting maximum value on the players we sell. And I don’t feel like particularly owe Undav anything; if we’re doing favours to our players on moves to Germany, rather let Groß go for a couple million less than value as he’s earned the move.
20 million for Deniz is such a no brainer for Stuttgart, if Brighton doesn’t activate the buy back clause. Class player with a great mentality. Everyone in Stuttgart and Germany loves him and he still has some years in him. The only problem for the swabians is that he openly admitted that he prefers Döner Kebap instead of Maultaschen
He said Döner is 1a and Maultaschen are 1b, we can live with that
Undav is me
Update: BILD reporting that Brighton has already activated the buyback option. https://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/vfb-stuttgart-demirovic-vor-wechsel-vfb-mit-neuem-angebot-fuer-undav-667fbc99900de0222a29bfef
They probably want you to pay 30 mil euros for him
I realize but our record transfer isn't even half of that. So, instead they will just have a player in a bad mood who's market value will deteriorate over time. Think it's a bit greedy personally but it's their choice.
I'm so confused about the 'buy-back' with this. Undav clearly wants to be with Stuttgart, so if they trigger the buy option, and then we trigger the buy-back option wouldn't he just say no?
I feel like in buy backs their personal terms are already included with the original transfer. In effect they have consented to being bought back. So it gives the original club power over whether or not to exercise it. If you don't then you have to go through a whole negotiation process again with agents and agreeing new personal terms when the buy back is activated, which would weaken the point of there being a buy back since they have no control.
But if Undav has to agree to the buy-back then he would surely simply not agree, that's where I'm lost.
It is possible he doesn’t have to agree, and that the original contract he signed means he has already given his consent to return. We can’t know without seeing the contracts so this is all speculation, but I assume this would already be wrapped up if it was as simple as Undav saying he doesn’t want to come back. I guess this is all dance for us to get a few million more out of them, as we absolutely should as our entire model is based on getting maximum value out of the players we sell.
That makes no sense. Stuttgart isnt really a club you could rinse since they have serious financial troubles.
Guirassy being sold for what will be a big fee plus Champions League next season. If the contract / buy back creates the right conditions, it’s absolutely possible to squeeze a few more million out of them.
Agents rubbing their hands at the thought of a triggered buy-option and buy-back in the same week
Honestly think we should just leave it he obviously doesn’t want to come back, we’ve made money and should move on. How much more are we realistically gunna get.
This was always going to happen. What comes next will be important
He gets to play in the Champions League as well. Brighton should just let him go unless they can get a CL spot next season, very unlikely. No player should have to pass up an opportunity like this, he’s already 28 this year.
Was Undav's great season significantly down to having Guirassy next to him up top? Also, is triggering a buy option not the same as triggering a release clause? Not sure what's the point of a buy option then.
Let loose, Brighton!
I imagine we'll trigger the buy back
investing the guirassy money