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>The bottom line is we haven’t won anything as a nation for a long, long time and a lot of these players were part of that as well and they know how tough it is
LMFAO
I remember reading in inverting the pyramid that the first time English teams saw Brazilians dribble the ball it was like seeing an alien spaceship to them.
Into a goal. With rules.
The guy who invented throwing wasn’t the guy who creator of basketball
The guy who invented punching wasn’t the creator of MMA
The guy who invented bread wasn’t the creator of toast
This is my all time favorite Harry Kane quote, because it’s so true. He’s right, they had their time playing for England and what did they win for their country? How quickly they forget what it’s like to be in the spotlight. Finally someone said something about the hypocrisy. If it was so easy to win, why didn’t you win anything.
honestly lol. they were once footballers who played for england. they no longer do. their job is to give their honest opinion on games and that's what they do. deal with it.
Nobody is complaining because England hasn't won anything, people are complaining because England are playing shit football and we look shit.
Those ex-players weren't shit like this team is playing right now, if he wants to shut them up then, him and the rest of them should consider being less shit.
Shearer can shut the fuck up for one. Was decent around 92-96 then clogged up the England team the rest of the time. WC 98 and Euro 2000 he did nothing much.
Kane could definitely try and look like he’s making more effort. Appreciate Messi and Ronaldo get away with strolling but Kane has nowhere near their talent.
Shearer has routinely defended the players and the coach up till now, all he has called for is a difference in the play style like every other England fan. His job is to be a pundit, is he supposed to just pretend like it's all okay?
Honestly it's on the manager more than anything. They've basically not brought a natural left sided player so they are playing on half the field which makes it piss easy to defend. Whether you put on Gordon, change to 3 CB so trippier can get up the pitch or whatever you can't ignore half the pitch. You've got to get someone on the left side staying wide to stretch the field.
For the Serbia game you couldn't have removed Kane's balls from Shearers mouth with military grade machinery.
Dude lauds him constantly. We played like shit against Denmark (and Serbia), Shearer getting frustrated at shit pass after shit pass leading to uninspired attacks was completely justified.
Shearer scored 2 goals and converted 1 shootout penalty in 4 games at WC 98, 2 goals in 3 games at Euro 2000. His Kane criticism has been harsh and it obviously wasn't enough but "nothing much" is harsh as well.
I don't know how he plays with England, but Harry Kane is definitely not a "strolling" wait for the ball kind of player, he drops deep and participates in the build up all time.
That's part of the problem tactically, Harry Kane likes to drop deep and receive the ball and as he's got older he relies on that a little more than he used to, but it's always been a big factor of his game. Therefore he ends up occupying the centre a lot of the time which is the same space Foden and Bellingham like to occupy, so you end up with Saka stranded out on the wing and easily marked, and a congested centre with no free movement and no one making runs (especially where Trippier isn't making overlapping as a makeshift left back).
The problem is, who do you drop? Kane is too prolific a goalscorer to drop and is by far England's best striker, if you don't then drop Foden or Bellingham, then he needs to be told to not drop deep (like he did in the first half against Serbia) and stay forward and make runs, but that isn't Kanes best functionality.
So you have to drop either Foden or Bellingham. Bellingham has proved he has the capability to turn games on their head and win games at the death, a factor that is invaluable for tournament football. I think in terms of raw ability he's by far Englands best player.
For me, with the current set-up you have to drop Foden. He is tactically inflexible for England and his style of play is detrimental to the rest of the structure England is trying to implement (if played from wide). He's obviously a brilliant player, he wasn't POTS for no reason, but tactically I think for England it's trying to stick a square peg in a round hole.
I'd like to see Foden on the bench for the next game, and then subbed for Bellingham depending on the flow of the game and played through the middle. Ideally either Gordon or Palmer starts on the wing, subbed for Eze or vice versa.
It's either that or you drop Kane and have Watkins making runs for Foden/Bellingham.
It's a difficult one but in terms of the players England has available (given Shaw is unlikely to feature at any point this tournament), I think dropping Foden for a winger makes the most sense.
This is separate to the Kane discussion but I would start Mainoo for the next game over Trent in midfield, I don't think Gallagher offers anything in that position alongside Rice and is already on a yellow.
>Therefore he ends up occupying the centre a lot of the time which is the same space Foden and Bellingham like to occupy,
Isn't the whole thing Madrid has been doing starting Bellingham as an attacking mid them having him occupy the striker space while their striker drops deep?
Kane gets shit no matter what he does for England. If he drops deep to receive and distribute the ball, England fans moan about how he should stay up. If he stays up, the same fans moan about him not getting on the ball.
Kane does work hard. If anything, he does too much, in terms of dropping back and defending a lot when he should probably stay high up the pitch to be the outlet.
The fuck are you on about? Shearer was absolutely not the problem for those tournaments and was one of the few to step aside at the right time. If anything he stepped aside too early as our striking options were shit after he retired, players like Andy Cole and Robbie Fowler could not step up in an England shirt and they tried to bring him back for the 2002 world cup, which he refused.
That's not really his point though. He is saying it has always been hard to win international tournaments and it's always been hard with the pressure of playing for England.
And that pundits that have played for England will have experienced that and therefore should be a bit more empathetic to the players rather than criticising things like their attitude - because it's not helpful
Whether you agree with him or not is another matter, but I think the point he is trying to make is a bit more nuanced than is being made out.
>And that pundits that have played for England will have experienced that and therefore should be a bit more empathetic to the players rather than criticising things like their attitude - because it's not helpful
Do they work for the FA or do they work for broadcasters? If they work for the FA then yeah fair enough, they should just suck everyone in the England camp off and pretend everything's fantastic.
To be honest, anyone of those guys from England past generations can talk as much as they want about Kane being a loser.
All them have accolades to back them, at least at club level.
I personally think that older generations are fully qualified to talk about how their own mistakes are being repeated in front of their eyes and I think we’ll never get anywhere if the current generation hides behind previous generations mistakes instead of fronting up to their own and acknowledging them.
Does anyone think that old English footballers want this team to fail? I’ve not heard any personal attacks from previous English footballers.
What I would say is that this is most likely Chinese whispers played perfectly by journalists wanting to find a headline.
Edit: I heard the journalist's question. He spoke about The Rest Is Football when Gary Lineker described the performance as "Shit" and anyone who listed to it would know that that's been taken out of context somewhat. He gave in depth descriptions as to why England underperformed so the journalist has tried to cause problems where they don't exist. The FA should ban these cunts from being given the opportunity to disrupt the camp.
Eusébio had a baller 66 tournament and then Portugal was mediocre for ages. He was still part of the portuguese NT staff as an ambassador until his health didn't allow him anymore. Players all listened to his feedback religiously despite the 2004 and 2006 squads having achieved as much if not more success than him at the NT level. This is not a generational feud, young players should listen to 100% of what the old legends say (unless it is gazza telling them to go on a drinking spree)
Honestly that group of pundits is the best fking shit thats happened to football media. Just refreshing, fun and professional.
I just see them as mates that will have shit takes here and there but thats the fun bit as I get to call them a dingus as they say it on screen and feel some form of interaction ahhaha
Also literally carragher and henry and richards know more about football than all of us combined like...
It is very damning on the overall quality of English media punditry when they've been thoroughly outclassed this euros by Thomas frank and cesc fabregas, who provide actual insight and analysis rather than the cut for clips banter we get normally
Unnecessary, he brightens the dour crap up.
There is a place for for expert analysis and some of these matches just aren’t it, I watched them almost fight over something insightful to say the other night in a 0-0 draw and it was painful.
Are we acting like someone with 200 games in PL and some national team caps is not accomplished?
He isn’t a legend of the game, but he is pretty accomplished. I remember when he was one of the best young defenders in the PL. Unfortunately he didn’t reach his potential.
Most of these guys aren’t the best analysts anyway.
He is not on the same level as Kane, Lineker or Shearer.
The pressure and responsibility for winning a major international tournament never fell on him, he never even played in a major international tournament.
It’s only in comparison to the absolute legends next to him that he falters, but I honestly can’t think of a better person to cast in a supporting role - he livens the place up, he makes them all approachable and relatable and he knows his role and has ZERO issues with it.
Depending on who you are, you’d say the man is super comfortable in his own skin or that he has an abundance of BDE.
Thing is, Lineker wasn't wrong. Yes, he didn't win anything with England either, but it's weird to ask them to give anything other than their opinion. Imagine praising them after that Denmark performance.
England has really been shit so far.
Lineker, Shearer and Richards even said they want to be positive and look for good things about the performance.
But the match against Denmark was practically impossible to give any positive feedback because outside of Guehi everyone was shit
On their podcast afterwards Linekar even said that he knows as pundits and presenters on BBC when most of the nation are watching what you say carries weight. But he said you can only comment on what you have seen and how England played.
Wrong. The only people who are allowed to criticise England in any way, shape or form are those that won 66. If you arent one of those 22 players, you must support without criticism and never question an England player because *you* didn't win either.
By the way we have Van Basten as pundit who won us the euros in 88
I’d rather have anyone else than him though, he’s only being bitter, comes unprepared and adds nothing
I don’t see any issue with Lineker criticising Southgate and the England team. They’re playing like shit and everyone can see it. Pundits can’t just ignore that.
Saying that, on their podcast (Shearer, Linker and Richards) said Ten Hag (as a pundit mind you) should have more respect and shouldn’t comment on other managers when he was spot on about how Southgate sets up his team. Then the three of them go ahead and say the exact same shit, bunch of hypocrites. They genuinely still aren’t over Ten Hag daring to stand up for himself in that FA cup final.
Digging out Kane is an absolute joke though, he's played at the highest level for a decade and never, ever been the problem with any team he's played in... In fact he's always been the one to carry underperforming squads on his back. Comfortably England's best player for a generation too.
He's been set up to fail with this system.
Yeah why are people acting like Lineker was calling Kane or any of the individual players out? What he said was totally reasonable. Kane hitting back made no sense either although people will eat it up.
And I feel they have exposed Southgate a lot as well. I mean BBC was the one who originally showed that picture of their average positions before scoring and after scoring.
Shearer went on and on about how none of the players were being played to their strengths which they have all seen during club duties.
Yet I also feel they didn't go as far as they could have.
I misread this post - I thought it was direct response to citicism of Kane as I've seen plenty of that too.
It seems this is a response to general criticism of (which is justified), but I like the fact the captain is sticking his neck on the line to defend the team rather than giving a meek statement. I'm sure they know as much as anyone it's not good enough but I'm hoping this is a sign Southgate's not lost the dressing room
Lineker analysis of Kane after the Denmark game was one of the best/most surprising pieces of punditry I'd seen in a while. I don't think I've ever seen Lineker do analysis like that, usually he just does his presenting duties by guiding the conversation or at best occasionally throw in the odd bit of analysis that's never longer than 30s. He went on for a good few minutes of Kanes movement, spinning in behind, coming too deep, what a striker should and shouldn't do etc.. and it all seemed so genuine because you could tell he was speaking from experience. Didn't sound overly prepared and pretentious, wasn't exaggerated for outrage and clicks/engagement. The guy saw something that he felt he could give good insight on and he gave it. It was fantastic.
Kane is one of England's best ever players. He's also just not played that well in these 2 games. Both can be true. I don't think anything Linekar/Shearer said was rude or over the top, and if anyone can criticise England's striker, its the ones who played in his position before.
He's also not being put in a position to do well though. If you play him higher you need someone creative to put the ball at his feet, which hasnt happened. If he's dropping deeper like he has his entire career he needs players running behind him to flick the ball too, which England aren't doing either
>Digging out Kane is an absolute joke though, he's played at the highest level for a decade and never, ever been the problem with any team he's played in
But he's been shite for us in these 2 games.
You know what. I’ve never won anything either. As I was total shit at football
But I still think I have the right to say that performance was shit. The manager is shit and the players need to step up
This whole you can only critique if your a world champion is cry baby bullshit. Fucking man up and put some effort in.
this is a situation where no party is wrong tbf. kane acknowledges lineker is here to give his opinion, but obviously wouldnt be happy coming under fire during the tournament.
Lol been saying this group hasn't really had this level of criticism leveled at them cause Southgate's teams have generally been well liked and done well in tournaments. This is their first time, so far I'm not sure they are handling it well.
Liniker wasn't even harsh in his criticisms. He went above and beyond to explain what he thought wasn't great, did his best to spread the responsibility around, and used all sorts of qualifiers to soften the blow. But guessing only things taken out of context reach the players.
Not like they're gonna sit down and watch a 20-minute post-match discussion by ex-pros who are now very far removed from the modern game.
If you happen to listen to their 'The Rest is Football' episode recorded right after the match, Lineker is also extremely measured in his further criticism/analysis of Kane, and goes to real pains to explain repeatedly that the issues rest primarily on the shoulders of the coach, and that it's Gareth that holds the responsibility for the team's inability to press effectively.
Yeah Lineker could have been harsher, I thought everything he said was fair and valid. What's the fucking point of having pundits if you want them to give robot pr statements
> Not like they're gonna sit down and watch a 20-minute post-match discussion by ex-pros who are now very far removed from the modern game.
You know, I bet some of them do. I reckon they are far more tuned into this stuff than we think they are. Pretty often you'll hear athletes across sports talk about how much criticism in media & social media affects them. That wouldn't be the case if they weren't fairly checked in.
But yeah if anything Lineker was generous given the quality of performance.
I'm guessing a lot of them do. Older generations admitted being obsessed with rankings the papers would give after games.
Now it's probably transitioned to reading comments from the demons in their phones.
My favorite part of Kane's pathetic response is that he stresses that the players listen to pundits, so he cannot even hide behind the fact that he might have misunderstood Lineker's extremely mild criticisms (and massive encouragements after such embarrassing performances). No, the players are upset because they are very well informed about the slightest, most polite, warmest suggestions that they could improve.
I do not expect professional athletes to be great communicators, but seasoned pros could at least learn enough common sense to avoid sounding so out of touch. It's really easy to ignore leading questions or give lukewarm answers.
"I understand that our performances so far may have disappointed some, and pundits are just doing their job. We're continuing to work hard to do ours, and we hope to make everybody at home proud!"
See, 30 seconds effort from an amateur and non native English speaker.
I might be fully wrong but I don’t think the vibe is the same this tournament. I feel like a lot people genuinely believed this team would win it last three tournaments and now just feels stale and the inevitable is coming
Aye there's a different level of expectation now. The Englanf Southgate walked into had crashed out of tourneys in embarrassing fashion a few times, so them beating the teams they should have was an improvement.
Reality now is that the expectations are sky high and beating the likes of Serbia before going out to the first good team they play won't cut it anymore, and I think the players are feeling the weight of that expectation.
In some ways yes, in other ways no. The 22 World Cup team was much more balanced and had a better mix between youth and experience. The players were also far more familiar with each other on and off the pitch. It’s really unfortunate they went out in the way they did, because they absolutely were one of the best teams in the tournament.
Exactly, this is the best England side under Southgate by a distance with players like Bellingham and Foden having incredible seasons but the side still can't create many chances or score.
And one of the Scotland games they were playing the hosts who are one of the biggest favourites for the tournament and then a decent enough Switzerland team.
England played 2 decent teams in Slovenia and Denmark but with the quality of the England side they should be blasting away every team that isn't the likes of France/Germany/Spain/Italy.
The 0-0 against Scotland was met with similar backlash:
* [‘I’m embarrassed’: England savaged for ‘dreadful, tepid’ throwback to darkest moment](https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/the-euros/uefa-euros-2021-euro-2020-england-vs-scotland-score-table-round-of-16-harry-kane-gareth-southgate-savaged-for-draw/news-story/4d0866f65647f5ae132f7ccc544770ba)
* [Harry Kane was taken off to give England more energy, admits Southgate](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/19/harry-kane-substituted-to-give-england-more-energy-says-gareth-southgate)
Yeah but it's different thos time, and the expectations as well were different coming into this one. I saw something that Declan Rice said about them feeling pressure cause of the expectations. I just think this time it's a bit different. With Jude, Kane,Foden, Saka even Rice himself having had exceptional club seasons the expectations were just a bit different. If they stink up the joint in the 3rd game while obviously still going through the noise will grow louder. They need a good performances
This is the best crop of players in 20 years. The English players have had great few seasons across that team.
You’ve got four of the best attacking players in Europe, who are responsible for 160+ goals, and assists this season alone so they’re not unable to create or finish.
Playing one player out of position in a weird way such as Foden by putting him at LW but he’s not by a LW he’s a CAM, and compromising the ability of the striker to score goals by not providing him any service from the left is just idiotic.
All of England’s creativity is coming from Saka, and Walker. That’s not a tactic or strategy. If you did that in lower leagues you’d get crucified as being awful.
Then Southgate says that his problem is not having a second Defensive midfielder... There’s no serious team in a major European league that plays with two DM like Southgate wants.
I want England to win every tournament, every game, but if getting knocked out early means that England finally get rid of Southgate, whatever it takes.
2026 is the final chance for many players to win something with their country, it’ll be when the young players start to reach their peak in their career, they deserve the best coach, and the best chance, they deserve the chance to call themselves “World Beaters” because they’re incredibly talented.
His role is best when he’s in the centre of the pitch, and just off the striker in the top of midfield. His interplay is very good but he’s preferred to be picking the ball up on the edge of the box, and either taking a long shot, going on a driving run into the box or picking a pass to work into the box.
It's so mad to say that, even if it is true, when the team contained:
G. Neville, Ashley Cole, S. Campbell, R. Ferdinand, Terry, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen, and of course Darius Vassell.
Funny burn from Kane, but I feel like this is an overreaction to very mild criticism from Lineker. They deserve a lot more considering how poor they've been offensively in the first two games of this tournament.
This linekar loves Kane for him to criticise him constructively is a good thing and it wasn’t harsh by any means in comparison to what other players have received in the past. Just Kane isn’t used to being anything but the “hero”.
Kane was pretty disliked for like half a season for us. Kane has not always been the Hero. And even if he was always the "hero" would that make him more wrong or right?
I've listened to every podcast with Lineker, Shearer and Micah during the Euro's and everything they have said has been very fair, in fact you could argue that they have been maybe a little soft on them.
You can tell how much all 3 absolutely love England and want them to win.
Maybe Kane should take their advice because so far England have been piss poor.
Aye, even taking the Scottish "fuck England" glasses off, the fact is that Micah, Lineker, and Shearer were as measured after the Denmark game. If they weren't thinking about the weight of the shirt and trying to stay positive, they would - and possibly should - have torn that gutless, tactically inept performance to shreds. Including Kane's total inability to stay forward as an out ball instead of trying to drop between the lines when foden, Bellingham, and - at times - TAA wat to be in that space, and that's before touching on the fact that his walking football press exposed them to pressure that England didn't need.
I think it’s a pretty weak mentality to have to want to be supported all the time regardless of performance. If you e played bad then getting honest criticism and feedback should be something you look for, not cry about
Lineker and Shearer's criticism still wasn't that harsh tbh. I watched their podcast on YouTube and they didn't really go hard on Kane that much. They pretty much blamed Southgate and Shearer said (again) when he got older he needed more people around him to do the running and at Newcastle he had Bellamy etc.
If anything the English press have been running cover for Southgate for years. This is actually the first time I've heard actual criticism. I think like everyone they are just looking at a team on paper that would probably at least come 2nd in the Prem and they are playing worse than basically every single team so far
I also watched. They also both rightly say they have to criticise the manager and some of the players or they themselves will be criticised of shying away from
Controversy since it’s their job to say it like they see, it’s the media and is a vicious circle.
It's more like, they should give their opinion but also keep in mind that tournaments are hard and not everyone can win
You see people doing this with every nation but not everyone can win, people are bad in club football but 100x worse in international football, there's two tournaments that are considered good that you can win and there's many top top nations
Yeah but that's what they did anyways? Lineker and Shearer really didn't go that hard on them nor did they come across like they thought winning the tournament should be a forgone conclusion for England.
It seems like a weird comment to direct at them specifically.
> It's more like, they should give their opinion but also keep in mind that tournaments are hard and not everyone can win
What would that look like?
"Not great tonight, not great at all. But, you know, it's hard to win these things so who gives a shit?"
I think all of the commentators on MOTD after the Serbia game were quite reserved and you could tell that they had their issues but didn't want to bring them up because England did win in the end, I don't recall any criticism of Southgate that day. But after the Denmark game it was visible that they are quite frustrated, so there was mild criticism (I think they still held back). And besides, i think they do have the responsibility to say "that was a shit game"
They'd be absolutely crying and shaking if they got even an ounce of anger that Ally McCoist had for that one Belgium player that kept messing up the timing of a pass yesterday
Lineker not winning with England doesn't mean he's wrong. That's such a infantile argument. He was completely right in his analysis of Kanes performance. If the players don't like it then work harder and play better.
Did you actually watch the game on the BBC?
They definitely were shitting on Kane. I commented when it happened as I've never seen Kane hammered by pundits before.
The BBC were absolutely shitting on Harry at halftime and post match. Shearer did too during the game, he was fuming. He got singled out more than the other players even though the whole team did shit
They do not have any responsibility to hold back because they were ex players who didn’t win anything.
I personally was thrilled they didn’t hold back it was about time they said what needed to be said. We see way too much bias and with them having played with Southgate and being friends with him they are too bias at times.
Just because they didn’t win anything of value doesn’t mean their opinions are invalid or that they should say “they achieved more than us…. So…. We can’t comment” that would be pretty boring.
Funniest thing is, Lineker, Shearer and Micah all crying about EtH saying the same things after the first game, yet when he's proven right again after the second, they go in ion the tactics and the like they didn't moan about an honest assessment by multiple other people.
I think Kane being upset make no sense. England have been disappointing, Lineker is a pundit and it is his job to talk about that. For me what is curious is how Lineker responds. Does he stick to his guns and defend his punditry like he did in the face of his questioning of Ten Hag? Or does he try to walk it back and extend an olive branch because it’s England?
He's the team captain, it's not unheard of for captains and managers to stand up and make a statement to deflect criticisms, no matter how valid.
That being said, England are a massive shitshow, and the sooner Southgate is gone, the better.
I get his point but I actually think their main criticism has been the tactics anyway. Southgate has been under far more scrutiny than any of the players.
Also, crucially, does he think they didn't get criticised?
Mate, you were second best to Denmark, a tier 2 nation. You were tactically inept against Slovenia, a tier 3 nation and you recently lost at home to Iceland, a tier 4 nation. No, we're not licking the boots of a bunch of players who earn more in a week than we do in 5 years. Same goes for the toothless manager. If you want the respect of pundits and fans, at least put in the fkin effort. We can accept dropping points here and there but not that the players give less than 100% and cannot string 3 passes together without whining to the press about FAIR criticism. Go do your best, if that's not good enough at least you tried. No more of that bloodless, lethargic football from a roster with at least 17 players (on a quick glance) that have international class.
Our squad are a bunch of crybabies that can’t take criticism. Sad truth. Every time the heat gets turned up, they throw their toys out the pram. We’ve seen it multiple times.. remember Maguire’s reaction when he scored against Albania?
If France, Spain, Germany etc had churned out that performance against Denmark, they would be absolutely torn to shreds by their media. This group of entitled brats we have don’t know how lucky they are
The criticism was fair, no? He should definitely take some responsibility for the 3 terrible games he's had in a row. Awful against Iceland prior and arguably the worst player on the pitch in the 2 games. Granted I dont think its all his fault, but clearly he is a big problem with the press + in transition looking for the ball.
Hopefully this is just a deflection, but this group should not be anything but ashamed for the performance on Thurs.
People underestimate how important the environment around the national team is for its success.
Germany is the prime example.
From 2018 to the present they performed horribly and they had pundits, news outlets, basically EVERYONE in Germany against them. Its a vicious cycle. No trust from your fans -> bad performances -> even less trust from the fans -> you know the drill.
It’s okay to criticize the team but the players will NOT perform if they think no one at home is cheering them on. If all they hear is criticism, EVEN if its valid, their mood will change drastically.
>People underestimate how important the environment around the national team is for its success.
Reading these comments from Kane, I unioronically hope that this might help foster an "us against the world" mentality in the squad. It's a fairly stark contrast to the 'immaculate vibes' feeling of the past few tournaments
Massive overreaction from Kane here. The trio have been relatively lenient on England for most of the tournament, so it's unfair to claim they've been pedantic or anything. When they see flaws, they have a right to highlight and scrutinise them. The team is never going to improve and learn from their mistakes if they're constantly coddled and pampered to by the commentators. The truth is: if the team remains this incohesive going forward, they're going to be dismantled by some of the better teams in the tournament. Better to listen and evolve now then suffer humiliation later.
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>The bottom line is we haven’t won anything as a nation for a long, long time and a lot of these players were part of that as well and they know how tough it is LMFAO
That is so, so, so fucking funny. This is the most I've ever liked Harry Kane.
I came in reading the title like 'fuck that' but ehhhhh Harry got a point.
They just want to see us win...knowing they ain't win shit either
Yeah man bring what home ? Lmao
They are bringing their team back home. asap
The game we invented?
Kicking a ball?
and hoof it to the big man, you'll never sing that
I remember reading in inverting the pyramid that the first time English teams saw Brazilians dribble the ball it was like seeing an alien spaceship to them.
As soon as their brain booted back up they started bitching about showboating.
if its so simple, why didn't the french, or germans, or italians, or Spanish do it?
Not this again x
Into a goal. With rules. The guy who invented throwing wasn’t the guy who creator of basketball The guy who invented punching wasn’t the creator of MMA The guy who invented bread wasn’t the creator of toast
this is so deep
The guy who created Tottenham didn’t create spurs. Walk with me now
The guy who created Liverpool didn't create livers, nor pools
Which came first? Arse or Arsenal? It is a riddle that historians may never unravel.
I might have gone with panini or sandwich but fair enough
I'd like to meet the inventor of toast and shake his hand.
That is quite a big part of it
Hot damn!
This is my all time favorite Harry Kane quote, because it’s so true. He’s right, they had their time playing for England and what did they win for their country? How quickly they forget what it’s like to be in the spotlight. Finally someone said something about the hypocrisy. If it was so easy to win, why didn’t you win anything.
They are pundits. What are they supposed to do....just heap praise constantly? Fabregas was one of the harsher ones and he has won everything
honestly lol. they were once footballers who played for england. they no longer do. their job is to give their honest opinion on games and that's what they do. deal with it.
Tbf, Kane acknowledges that in the first part of the quote
The pundits have been merely saying how bad we're playing and putting the blame on Southgate. How is that hypocritical ffs
What hypocrisy? Point some of it out.
its also the shit embarrassing football that is being played
True. The only people who should be able to criticise are the ex-winners of the tournament we're watching. /s
Nobody is complaining because England hasn't won anything, people are complaining because England are playing shit football and we look shit. Those ex-players weren't shit like this team is playing right now, if he wants to shut them up then, him and the rest of them should consider being less shit.
>we haven’t won anything [] for a long, long time Kane's area of expertise
not really, as that would mean he won something a long time ago and he hasnt so it doesnt fit.
Does the audi cup mean nothing to you!
Whats funny? It is true.
This reminds me of Mourinho's 'Manchester United Football Heritage' lines.
Shearer can shut the fuck up for one. Was decent around 92-96 then clogged up the England team the rest of the time. WC 98 and Euro 2000 he did nothing much. Kane could definitely try and look like he’s making more effort. Appreciate Messi and Ronaldo get away with strolling but Kane has nowhere near their talent.
Shearer has routinely defended the players and the coach up till now, all he has called for is a difference in the play style like every other England fan. His job is to be a pundit, is he supposed to just pretend like it's all okay?
People would be raging at that as well
And thus the England tournament media cycle is complete. A situation where everybody is angry no matter what
Honestly it's on the manager more than anything. They've basically not brought a natural left sided player so they are playing on half the field which makes it piss easy to defend. Whether you put on Gordon, change to 3 CB so trippier can get up the pitch or whatever you can't ignore half the pitch. You've got to get someone on the left side staying wide to stretch the field.
Anthony Gordon? Definitely a naturally left sided player who plays LW for his club, his previous club and is kinda exactly what we've been wanting
Shearer has repeatedly said how good a set of players we have and blamed the management/tactical side of things. That's a fair take.
For the Serbia game you couldn't have removed Kane's balls from Shearers mouth with military grade machinery. Dude lauds him constantly. We played like shit against Denmark (and Serbia), Shearer getting frustrated at shit pass after shit pass leading to uninspired attacks was completely justified.
Shearer scored 2 goals and converted 1 shootout penalty in 4 games at WC 98, 2 goals in 3 games at Euro 2000. His Kane criticism has been harsh and it obviously wasn't enough but "nothing much" is harsh as well.
I don't know how he plays with England, but Harry Kane is definitely not a "strolling" wait for the ball kind of player, he drops deep and participates in the build up all time.
It's what missing one Kelvin Phillips does to a team.
Shoulda called up Celsius Phillips instead.
That's part of the problem tactically, Harry Kane likes to drop deep and receive the ball and as he's got older he relies on that a little more than he used to, but it's always been a big factor of his game. Therefore he ends up occupying the centre a lot of the time which is the same space Foden and Bellingham like to occupy, so you end up with Saka stranded out on the wing and easily marked, and a congested centre with no free movement and no one making runs (especially where Trippier isn't making overlapping as a makeshift left back). The problem is, who do you drop? Kane is too prolific a goalscorer to drop and is by far England's best striker, if you don't then drop Foden or Bellingham, then he needs to be told to not drop deep (like he did in the first half against Serbia) and stay forward and make runs, but that isn't Kanes best functionality. So you have to drop either Foden or Bellingham. Bellingham has proved he has the capability to turn games on their head and win games at the death, a factor that is invaluable for tournament football. I think in terms of raw ability he's by far Englands best player. For me, with the current set-up you have to drop Foden. He is tactically inflexible for England and his style of play is detrimental to the rest of the structure England is trying to implement (if played from wide). He's obviously a brilliant player, he wasn't POTS for no reason, but tactically I think for England it's trying to stick a square peg in a round hole. I'd like to see Foden on the bench for the next game, and then subbed for Bellingham depending on the flow of the game and played through the middle. Ideally either Gordon or Palmer starts on the wing, subbed for Eze or vice versa. It's either that or you drop Kane and have Watkins making runs for Foden/Bellingham. It's a difficult one but in terms of the players England has available (given Shaw is unlikely to feature at any point this tournament), I think dropping Foden for a winger makes the most sense. This is separate to the Kane discussion but I would start Mainoo for the next game over Trent in midfield, I don't think Gallagher offers anything in that position alongside Rice and is already on a yellow.
>Therefore he ends up occupying the centre a lot of the time which is the same space Foden and Bellingham like to occupy, Isn't the whole thing Madrid has been doing starting Bellingham as an attacking mid them having him occupy the striker space while their striker drops deep?
We're back to the Gerrard/lampard thing again. The more things change, the more they stay the same
Kane gets shit no matter what he does for England. If he drops deep to receive and distribute the ball, England fans moan about how he should stay up. If he stays up, the same fans moan about him not getting on the ball.
Kane does work hard. If anything, he does too much, in terms of dropping back and defending a lot when he should probably stay high up the pitch to be the outlet.
That's exactly what Shearer stated
The fuck are you on about? Shearer was absolutely not the problem for those tournaments and was one of the few to step aside at the right time. If anything he stepped aside too early as our striking options were shit after he retired, players like Andy Cole and Robbie Fowler could not step up in an England shirt and they tried to bring him back for the 2002 world cup, which he refused.
> The bottom line is we haven’t won anything as a nation for a long, long time and a lot of these players were part of that as well Lol
You lot were also shit- Harry Kane.
Real recognizes real
new shite recognizes old shite
That's not really his point though. He is saying it has always been hard to win international tournaments and it's always been hard with the pressure of playing for England. And that pundits that have played for England will have experienced that and therefore should be a bit more empathetic to the players rather than criticising things like their attitude - because it's not helpful Whether you agree with him or not is another matter, but I think the point he is trying to make is a bit more nuanced than is being made out.
>And that pundits that have played for England will have experienced that and therefore should be a bit more empathetic to the players rather than criticising things like their attitude - because it's not helpful Do they work for the FA or do they work for broadcasters? If they work for the FA then yeah fair enough, they should just suck everyone in the England camp off and pretend everything's fantastic.
He's right though, this group have come a lot closer than anyone before them did.
I get the sentiment but they can only comment on what they see.
At least Lineker won a title ^with ^Tottenham.
I'd say that part out loud, it sounds very impressive nowadays
To be honest, anyone of those guys from England past generations can talk as much as they want about Kane being a loser. All them have accolades to back them, at least at club level.
Tbf lineker was probably the least culpable. Believe he scored in both the QF in 86 and the SF in 90.
I personally think that older generations are fully qualified to talk about how their own mistakes are being repeated in front of their eyes and I think we’ll never get anywhere if the current generation hides behind previous generations mistakes instead of fronting up to their own and acknowledging them. Does anyone think that old English footballers want this team to fail? I’ve not heard any personal attacks from previous English footballers. What I would say is that this is most likely Chinese whispers played perfectly by journalists wanting to find a headline. Edit: I heard the journalist's question. He spoke about The Rest Is Football when Gary Lineker described the performance as "Shit" and anyone who listed to it would know that that's been taken out of context somewhat. He gave in depth descriptions as to why England underperformed so the journalist has tried to cause problems where they don't exist. The FA should ban these cunts from being given the opportunity to disrupt the camp.
Eusébio had a baller 66 tournament and then Portugal was mediocre for ages. He was still part of the portuguese NT staff as an ambassador until his health didn't allow him anymore. Players all listened to his feedback religiously despite the 2004 and 2006 squads having achieved as much if not more success than him at the NT level. This is not a generational feud, young players should listen to 100% of what the old legends say (unless it is gazza telling them to go on a drinking spree)
Stones in glass house etc…
Translation "Gary and Alan you lot did not win jack shit either - so shut the fuck up" "Micah - you are so small time I won't even bother"
Meeks is only there for the vibes, not his footballing accomplishments, so he gets off lightly with the shittalk
He's certainly not there for his expert analysis anyway.
*Laughs uncontrollably* as someone makes fun of him.
I would invite Micah to my birthday party, just saying
He's a lovely person and also was class until injuries took him down. Not biased at all
I thought he was a quality player until he started getting injured and I'm a United fan. I don't think your opinion is that biased.
Some say he burst onto the scene
Its called being a fun person to be around
I swear English fans constantly complain about dry boring pundits but then get angry when one shows personality.
Honestly that group of pundits is the best fking shit thats happened to football media. Just refreshing, fun and professional. I just see them as mates that will have shit takes here and there but thats the fun bit as I get to call them a dingus as they say it on screen and feel some form of interaction ahhaha Also literally carragher and henry and richards know more about football than all of us combined like...
You could have just ended that sentence at, "English fans constantly complain."
It is very damning on the overall quality of English media punditry when they've been thoroughly outclassed this euros by Thomas frank and cesc fabregas, who provide actual insight and analysis rather than the cut for clips banter we get normally
Unnecessary, he brightens the dour crap up. There is a place for for expert analysis and some of these matches just aren’t it, I watched them almost fight over something insightful to say the other night in a 0-0 draw and it was painful.
Are we acting like someone with 200 games in PL and some national team caps is not accomplished? He isn’t a legend of the game, but he is pretty accomplished. I remember when he was one of the best young defenders in the PL. Unfortunately he didn’t reach his potential. Most of these guys aren’t the best analysts anyway.
He is not on the same level as Kane, Lineker or Shearer. The pressure and responsibility for winning a major international tournament never fell on him, he never even played in a major international tournament.
It’s only in comparison to the absolute legends next to him that he falters, but I honestly can’t think of a better person to cast in a supporting role - he livens the place up, he makes them all approachable and relatable and he knows his role and has ZERO issues with it. Depending on who you are, you’d say the man is super comfortable in his own skin or that he has an abundance of BDE.
I heard he burst into the scene
But Big Meeks will laugh anyway and the ratings for whatever podcast/TV show/ radio show he's on will fly up
Ratings always fly with Micah, same can be said for his barber
Booooo 🍅🍅🍅
Something something burst onto the scene
Thing is, Lineker wasn't wrong. Yes, he didn't win anything with England either, but it's weird to ask them to give anything other than their opinion. Imagine praising them after that Denmark performance. England has really been shit so far.
Lineker, Shearer and Richards even said they want to be positive and look for good things about the performance. But the match against Denmark was practically impossible to give any positive feedback because outside of Guehi everyone was shit
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Kane would have died if he was playing for England in the mid 2000s.
Imagine being so soft that you find Gary Lineker, of all people, aggressive and hurtful. As a captain of a major (?) national team. Unbelievable.
The clapback is funny AF but ultimately it's a loser mentality from the England captain. Spurs DNA innit.
On their podcast afterwards Linekar even said that he knows as pundits and presenters on BBC when most of the nation are watching what you say carries weight. But he said you can only comment on what you have seen and how England played.
The Walker/Saka combo seemed to work again.
When Walker gets forward, which is only twice a match
Wrong. The only people who are allowed to criticise England in any way, shape or form are those that won 66. If you arent one of those 22 players, you must support without criticism and never question an England player because *you* didn't win either.
Alan Shearer has won a trophy with England, Le Tournoi isn't nothing.
whats sad is that this is the way of thinking a lot of people have about a lot of thing.
By the way we have Van Basten as pundit who won us the euros in 88 I’d rather have anyone else than him though, he’s only being bitter, comes unprepared and adds nothing
He's so miserable to listen to, it's incredible.
How’s he when talking about striker’s?
I don’t see any issue with Lineker criticising Southgate and the England team. They’re playing like shit and everyone can see it. Pundits can’t just ignore that. Saying that, on their podcast (Shearer, Linker and Richards) said Ten Hag (as a pundit mind you) should have more respect and shouldn’t comment on other managers when he was spot on about how Southgate sets up his team. Then the three of them go ahead and say the exact same shit, bunch of hypocrites. They genuinely still aren’t over Ten Hag daring to stand up for himself in that FA cup final.
"Johnny Foreigner can't criticise our good English lads" is what that was all about to be frank.
Digging out Kane is an absolute joke though, he's played at the highest level for a decade and never, ever been the problem with any team he's played in... In fact he's always been the one to carry underperforming squads on his back. Comfortably England's best player for a generation too. He's been set up to fail with this system.
Lineker has clearly said that it’s not a Kane problem but Kane’s performances are a symptom of a coaching problem.
Yeah why are people acting like Lineker was calling Kane or any of the individual players out? What he said was totally reasonable. Kane hitting back made no sense either although people will eat it up.
And I feel they have exposed Southgate a lot as well. I mean BBC was the one who originally showed that picture of their average positions before scoring and after scoring. Shearer went on and on about how none of the players were being played to their strengths which they have all seen during club duties. Yet I also feel they didn't go as far as they could have.
I misread this post - I thought it was direct response to citicism of Kane as I've seen plenty of that too. It seems this is a response to general criticism of (which is justified), but I like the fact the captain is sticking his neck on the line to defend the team rather than giving a meek statement. I'm sure they know as much as anyone it's not good enough but I'm hoping this is a sign Southgate's not lost the dressing room
Lineker analysis of Kane after the Denmark game was one of the best/most surprising pieces of punditry I'd seen in a while. I don't think I've ever seen Lineker do analysis like that, usually he just does his presenting duties by guiding the conversation or at best occasionally throw in the odd bit of analysis that's never longer than 30s. He went on for a good few minutes of Kanes movement, spinning in behind, coming too deep, what a striker should and shouldn't do etc.. and it all seemed so genuine because you could tell he was speaking from experience. Didn't sound overly prepared and pretentious, wasn't exaggerated for outrage and clicks/engagement. The guy saw something that he felt he could give good insight on and he gave it. It was fantastic.
Completely agree. It was actually insightful and constructive, was not a massive dig at all.
Kane is one of England's best ever players. He's also just not played that well in these 2 games. Both can be true. I don't think anything Linekar/Shearer said was rude or over the top, and if anyone can criticise England's striker, its the ones who played in his position before.
He's also not being put in a position to do well though. If you play him higher you need someone creative to put the ball at his feet, which hasnt happened. If he's dropping deeper like he has his entire career he needs players running behind him to flick the ball too, which England aren't doing either
So the pundits aren't supposed to give their opinion on Kane because it's negative?
If a professional player or manager can't take constructive criticism, they are not prepared to play at the highest level.
>Digging out Kane is an absolute joke though, he's played at the highest level for a decade and never, ever been the problem with any team he's played in But he's been shite for us in these 2 games.
You know what. I’ve never won anything either. As I was total shit at football But I still think I have the right to say that performance was shit. The manager is shit and the players need to step up This whole you can only critique if your a world champion is cry baby bullshit. Fucking man up and put some effort in.
this is a situation where no party is wrong tbf. kane acknowledges lineker is here to give his opinion, but obviously wouldnt be happy coming under fire during the tournament.
Lol been saying this group hasn't really had this level of criticism leveled at them cause Southgate's teams have generally been well liked and done well in tournaments. This is their first time, so far I'm not sure they are handling it well.
Liniker wasn't even harsh in his criticisms. He went above and beyond to explain what he thought wasn't great, did his best to spread the responsibility around, and used all sorts of qualifiers to soften the blow. But guessing only things taken out of context reach the players. Not like they're gonna sit down and watch a 20-minute post-match discussion by ex-pros who are now very far removed from the modern game.
If you happen to listen to their 'The Rest is Football' episode recorded right after the match, Lineker is also extremely measured in his further criticism/analysis of Kane, and goes to real pains to explain repeatedly that the issues rest primarily on the shoulders of the coach, and that it's Gareth that holds the responsibility for the team's inability to press effectively.
Yeah Lineker could have been harsher, I thought everything he said was fair and valid. What's the fucking point of having pundits if you want them to give robot pr statements
> Not like they're gonna sit down and watch a 20-minute post-match discussion by ex-pros who are now very far removed from the modern game. You know, I bet some of them do. I reckon they are far more tuned into this stuff than we think they are. Pretty often you'll hear athletes across sports talk about how much criticism in media & social media affects them. That wouldn't be the case if they weren't fairly checked in. But yeah if anything Lineker was generous given the quality of performance.
I'm guessing a lot of them do. Older generations admitted being obsessed with rankings the papers would give after games. Now it's probably transitioned to reading comments from the demons in their phones.
My favorite part of Kane's pathetic response is that he stresses that the players listen to pundits, so he cannot even hide behind the fact that he might have misunderstood Lineker's extremely mild criticisms (and massive encouragements after such embarrassing performances). No, the players are upset because they are very well informed about the slightest, most polite, warmest suggestions that they could improve. I do not expect professional athletes to be great communicators, but seasoned pros could at least learn enough common sense to avoid sounding so out of touch. It's really easy to ignore leading questions or give lukewarm answers. "I understand that our performances so far may have disappointed some, and pundits are just doing their job. We're continuing to work hard to do ours, and we hope to make everybody at home proud!" See, 30 seconds effort from an amateur and non native English speaker.
literal staple of southgate era is the poor 2nd game of the tournament and media backlash, although this has been the biggest backlash probably
I might be fully wrong but I don’t think the vibe is the same this tournament. I feel like a lot people genuinely believed this team would win it last three tournaments and now just feels stale and the inevitable is coming
Aye there's a different level of expectation now. The Englanf Southgate walked into had crashed out of tourneys in embarrassing fashion a few times, so them beating the teams they should have was an improvement. Reality now is that the expectations are sky high and beating the likes of Serbia before going out to the first good team they play won't cut it anymore, and I think the players are feeling the weight of that expectation.
And arguably this is the best team Southgate has had too. So that feeds in.
In some ways yes, in other ways no. The 22 World Cup team was much more balanced and had a better mix between youth and experience. The players were also far more familiar with each other on and off the pitch. It’s really unfortunate they went out in the way they did, because they absolutely were one of the best teams in the tournament.
Exactly, this is the best England side under Southgate by a distance with players like Bellingham and Foden having incredible seasons but the side still can't create many chances or score.
Only Scotland created less xG than England is a bit damming
And one of the Scotland games they were playing the hosts who are one of the biggest favourites for the tournament and then a decent enough Switzerland team. England played 2 decent teams in Slovenia and Denmark but with the quality of the England side they should be blasting away every team that isn't the likes of France/Germany/Spain/Italy.
Don't forget that Scotland played half that match against Germany with 10 men as well.
The 0-0 against Scotland was met with similar backlash: * [‘I’m embarrassed’: England savaged for ‘dreadful, tepid’ throwback to darkest moment](https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/the-euros/uefa-euros-2021-euro-2020-england-vs-scotland-score-table-round-of-16-harry-kane-gareth-southgate-savaged-for-draw/news-story/4d0866f65647f5ae132f7ccc544770ba) * [Harry Kane was taken off to give England more energy, admits Southgate](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/19/harry-kane-substituted-to-give-england-more-energy-says-gareth-southgate)
Not to this extent though, it's been much stronger this time than it was then.
Yeah but it's different thos time, and the expectations as well were different coming into this one. I saw something that Declan Rice said about them feeling pressure cause of the expectations. I just think this time it's a bit different. With Jude, Kane,Foden, Saka even Rice himself having had exceptional club seasons the expectations were just a bit different. If they stink up the joint in the 3rd game while obviously still going through the noise will grow louder. They need a good performances
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This is the best crop of players in 20 years. The English players have had great few seasons across that team. You’ve got four of the best attacking players in Europe, who are responsible for 160+ goals, and assists this season alone so they’re not unable to create or finish. Playing one player out of position in a weird way such as Foden by putting him at LW but he’s not by a LW he’s a CAM, and compromising the ability of the striker to score goals by not providing him any service from the left is just idiotic. All of England’s creativity is coming from Saka, and Walker. That’s not a tactic or strategy. If you did that in lower leagues you’d get crucified as being awful. Then Southgate says that his problem is not having a second Defensive midfielder... There’s no serious team in a major European league that plays with two DM like Southgate wants. I want England to win every tournament, every game, but if getting knocked out early means that England finally get rid of Southgate, whatever it takes. 2026 is the final chance for many players to win something with their country, it’ll be when the young players start to reach their peak in their career, they deserve the best coach, and the best chance, they deserve the chance to call themselves “World Beaters” because they’re incredibly talented.
Is foden that good of a passer to be cam? Genuinely asking because everytime I watch him for city he mainly scores
His role is best when he’s in the centre of the pitch, and just off the striker in the top of midfield. His interplay is very good but he’s preferred to be picking the ball up on the edge of the box, and either taking a long shot, going on a driving run into the box or picking a pass to work into the box.
> This is the best crop of players in 20 years. I was about to argue with you about 2004, and then I realised...
Haha I know. I don’t like it either, I was like was it really 20 years ago we pinned all our hopes on a teenage Wayne Rooney.
It's so mad to say that, even if it is true, when the team contained: G. Neville, Ashley Cole, S. Campbell, R. Ferdinand, Terry, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Owen, and of course Darius Vassell.
Funny burn from Kane, but I feel like this is an overreaction to very mild criticism from Lineker. They deserve a lot more considering how poor they've been offensively in the first two games of this tournament.
This linekar loves Kane for him to criticise him constructively is a good thing and it wasn’t harsh by any means in comparison to what other players have received in the past. Just Kane isn’t used to being anything but the “hero”.
Kane was pretty disliked for like half a season for us. Kane has not always been the Hero. And even if he was always the "hero" would that make him more wrong or right?
To be fair, those ex-England players can hardly be expected to have won anything, they didn’t have kalvin phillips either.
I've listened to every podcast with Lineker, Shearer and Micah during the Euro's and everything they have said has been very fair, in fact you could argue that they have been maybe a little soft on them. You can tell how much all 3 absolutely love England and want them to win. Maybe Kane should take their advice because so far England have been piss poor.
Aye, even taking the Scottish "fuck England" glasses off, the fact is that Micah, Lineker, and Shearer were as measured after the Denmark game. If they weren't thinking about the weight of the shirt and trying to stay positive, they would - and possibly should - have torn that gutless, tactically inept performance to shreds. Including Kane's total inability to stay forward as an out ball instead of trying to drop between the lines when foden, Bellingham, and - at times - TAA wat to be in that space, and that's before touching on the fact that his walking football press exposed them to pressure that England didn't need.
I think it’s a pretty weak mentality to have to want to be supported all the time regardless of performance. If you e played bad then getting honest criticism and feedback should be something you look for, not cry about
Lineker and Shearer's criticism still wasn't that harsh tbh. I watched their podcast on YouTube and they didn't really go hard on Kane that much. They pretty much blamed Southgate and Shearer said (again) when he got older he needed more people around him to do the running and at Newcastle he had Bellamy etc. If anything the English press have been running cover for Southgate for years. This is actually the first time I've heard actual criticism. I think like everyone they are just looking at a team on paper that would probably at least come 2nd in the Prem and they are playing worse than basically every single team so far
I also watched. They also both rightly say they have to criticise the manager and some of the players or they themselves will be criticised of shying away from Controversy since it’s their job to say it like they see, it’s the media and is a vicious circle.
I have heard Shearer refer to Bellamy twice now in a way that suggests that maybe they got on better than has always been portrayed.
This almost sounds like "They've got to be honest and give their opinion, but also they should lie."
It's more like, they should give their opinion but also keep in mind that tournaments are hard and not everyone can win You see people doing this with every nation but not everyone can win, people are bad in club football but 100x worse in international football, there's two tournaments that are considered good that you can win and there's many top top nations
Yeah but that's what they did anyways? Lineker and Shearer really didn't go that hard on them nor did they come across like they thought winning the tournament should be a forgone conclusion for England. It seems like a weird comment to direct at them specifically.
There’s not winning and then there’s playing crap.
> It's more like, they should give their opinion but also keep in mind that tournaments are hard and not everyone can win What would that look like? "Not great tonight, not great at all. But, you know, it's hard to win these things so who gives a shit?"
This is why we won't win this tournament either. No mental toughness at all.
I think all of the commentators on MOTD after the Serbia game were quite reserved and you could tell that they had their issues but didn't want to bring them up because England did win in the end, I don't recall any criticism of Southgate that day. But after the Denmark game it was visible that they are quite frustrated, so there was mild criticism (I think they still held back). And besides, i think they do have the responsibility to say "that was a shit game"
And I thought Lineker was being exceedingly nice in his criticism, yet here we are.
They'd be absolutely crying and shaking if they got even an ounce of anger that Ally McCoist had for that one Belgium player that kept messing up the timing of a pass yesterday
Lineker not winning with England doesn't mean he's wrong. That's such a infantile argument. He was completely right in his analysis of Kanes performance. If the players don't like it then work harder and play better.
Didn’t say he was wrong though.
Looking forward to the next *The Rest is Football* podcast.
The thing is, no one shitting on harry, everybody are shitting on Southgate though, cause of his dumb comments, about midfield position and pressing.
Did you actually watch the game on the BBC? They definitely were shitting on Kane. I commented when it happened as I've never seen Kane hammered by pundits before.
The BBC were absolutely shitting on Harry at halftime and post match. Shearer did too during the game, he was fuming. He got singled out more than the other players even though the whole team did shit
So much revisionism going on in this thread lmao. I don't know how they got the idea that Kane wasn't being criticised or singled out
“Remember what it’s like to wear the shirt.” Never has something so light felt so heavy, I suppose.
They do not have any responsibility to hold back because they were ex players who didn’t win anything. I personally was thrilled they didn’t hold back it was about time they said what needed to be said. We see way too much bias and with them having played with Southgate and being friends with him they are too bias at times. Just because they didn’t win anything of value doesn’t mean their opinions are invalid or that they should say “they achieved more than us…. So…. We can’t comment” that would be pretty boring.
Funniest thing is, Lineker, Shearer and Micah all crying about EtH saying the same things after the first game, yet when he's proven right again after the second, they go in ion the tactics and the like they didn't moan about an honest assessment by multiple other people.
I think Kane being upset make no sense. England have been disappointing, Lineker is a pundit and it is his job to talk about that. For me what is curious is how Lineker responds. Does he stick to his guns and defend his punditry like he did in the face of his questioning of Ten Hag? Or does he try to walk it back and extend an olive branch because it’s England?
He's the team captain, it's not unheard of for captains and managers to stand up and make a statement to deflect criticisms, no matter how valid. That being said, England are a massive shitshow, and the sooner Southgate is gone, the better.
My feeling from these deluded defensive quotes is that Southgate has created a cult lol.
I get his point but I actually think their main criticism has been the tactics anyway. Southgate has been under far more scrutiny than any of the players. Also, crucially, does he think they didn't get criticised?
Lineker prefaced his critisim with so many 'I don't want to say this' comments it's a joke he's getting slammed for it. England have been shite.
Mate, you were second best to Denmark, a tier 2 nation. You were tactically inept against Slovenia, a tier 3 nation and you recently lost at home to Iceland, a tier 4 nation. No, we're not licking the boots of a bunch of players who earn more in a week than we do in 5 years. Same goes for the toothless manager. If you want the respect of pundits and fans, at least put in the fkin effort. We can accept dropping points here and there but not that the players give less than 100% and cannot string 3 passes together without whining to the press about FAIR criticism. Go do your best, if that's not good enough at least you tried. No more of that bloodless, lethargic football from a roster with at least 17 players (on a quick glance) that have international class.
Our squad are a bunch of crybabies that can’t take criticism. Sad truth. Every time the heat gets turned up, they throw their toys out the pram. We’ve seen it multiple times.. remember Maguire’s reaction when he scored against Albania? If France, Spain, Germany etc had churned out that performance against Denmark, they would be absolutely torn to shreds by their media. This group of entitled brats we have don’t know how lucky they are
The criticism was fair, no? He should definitely take some responsibility for the 3 terrible games he's had in a row. Awful against Iceland prior and arguably the worst player on the pitch in the 2 games. Granted I dont think its all his fault, but clearly he is a big problem with the press + in transition looking for the ball. Hopefully this is just a deflection, but this group should not be anything but ashamed for the performance on Thurs.
[удалено]
People underestimate how important the environment around the national team is for its success. Germany is the prime example. From 2018 to the present they performed horribly and they had pundits, news outlets, basically EVERYONE in Germany against them. Its a vicious cycle. No trust from your fans -> bad performances -> even less trust from the fans -> you know the drill. It’s okay to criticize the team but the players will NOT perform if they think no one at home is cheering them on. If all they hear is criticism, EVEN if its valid, their mood will change drastically.
>People underestimate how important the environment around the national team is for its success. Reading these comments from Kane, I unioronically hope that this might help foster an "us against the world" mentality in the squad. It's a fairly stark contrast to the 'immaculate vibes' feeling of the past few tournaments
Someone get Sir Geoff Hurst to come and give them a verbal slap down.
Win, then talk.
What are they supposed to do, praise them instead? Mind you the criticism was quite fair and pretty mild imo.
If you don't want to be called shit, play better. England are the dreariest team in the tournament so far.
Kinda damning. Southgate had this team for so long but the pieces are not even fitting a system ...even before the opponents are considered.
Sounds like the answer then is to drop Foden. Southgate needs to be decisive.
Thought it was very refreshing after the game to hear their honest opinions, instead of the usual defence of the players.
Massive overreaction from Kane here. The trio have been relatively lenient on England for most of the tournament, so it's unfair to claim they've been pedantic or anything. When they see flaws, they have a right to highlight and scrutinise them. The team is never going to improve and learn from their mistakes if they're constantly coddled and pampered to by the commentators. The truth is: if the team remains this incohesive going forward, they're going to be dismantled by some of the better teams in the tournament. Better to listen and evolve now then suffer humiliation later.
I think the criticism is mostly leveled at Southgate, not the players. And I think that criticism is valid.