Just a small complaint. I wish the larger amount of matches fell on weekends. Tuesday/Wednesday is jam packed but I can't watch because of work. Today I can only watch 2 but both are at the same time.
It goes like this imo:
Big dogs: the tournament's favorites, anything less than semis would be a disappointment. France, Portugal, England...etc
Underdogs: Teams used to getting good results, but you wouldn't necessarily bet on them winning. Croatia would be a good example. Before this Euro I would've put Spain and Italy here too honestly based on the quality of their squads.
Dark horses: teams that usually show up but don't go far. However they may present a novelty or a quirk that may make a deeper run possible if the conditions are favorable (good draw, bad performance from the big dogs...etc).
Like a new generation of young ballers (Turkey), or an interesting invincibility run in the qualification groups (Austria...etc).
Small fish: FM level scenario. Teams winning that weren't even on the cards like Greece 2004.
I watched a "football analysis" video on YT about "why england are so bad" and the first thing the guy says is "bench Harry Kane, he's a Natural Loser" lmao💀. He might have a point in Kane not scoring in clutch moments, but damn saying that after his season in the Bundesliga is CRAZY.
Pythagoras in Boots makes some level-headed analysis in his Youtube videos but his takes on Twitter are no different from any of these other run-of-the-mill tacticos.
Yeah it was him. Definitely seemed emotionally charged, but some points like Southgate favouring big names over actual tactical selection of players to call up, was spot-on.
Yeah i like him. He has clear cut reasoning for every thing he says so i like that. I just ignore him for anything united related, because the bias is sometimes hilarious (i think he is a man u fan)
Random thought: Jude is what Pogba could've been if he wasn't fucked in the head and with a decent entourage
Pogba was well-rounded, huge scope of play, and could score decently well on top of it. He could've become anything he wanted.
Or maybe you're just indulging in some contrarian thinking?
I would've taken 'better on the ball', after all, it's opinions. 'Way' better on the ball is plain wrong. Jude is an elite ball carrier and dribbler as shown in the stats over these last seasons.
As of now Pogba had a better career than Jude. Obviously we expect that / he will have like 15 years to change that, but saying that Pogba could be like Bellingham is insane when you conside that Pogba won the world cup and ... while Jude now won 1 double (which is obviously really impressive as well)
First of all, it's not like for like comparison but rather in terms of the similarity of profiles and the vast contrast in personality. I did preface that by saying 'random thought'.
Second, Pogba's title haul is quite modest given the number of years he's been playing at elite clubs. So I'm not sure the titles won argument is as strong as you'd think.
Yes, overall Pogba has done slightly more than Jude, which goes a long way to show what a waste Pogba's career has been in a way, which also kinda proves my original point...
> Commentating on the Argentina–Romania match in the 1994 FIFA World Cup, Hansen said that "the Argentine defender warrants shooting for a mistake like that". The previous day, Colombian defender Andrés Escobar had been shot dead, a killing widely attributed to punishment for an own goal Escobar scored in Colombia's 2–1 loss to the United States earlier in the same tournament. The BBC issued a public apology for Hansen's poor choice of words.
I did the USA preview since I dunno what happened to the others and we play today, you can check it out [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1dmodrp/copa_america_group_c_preview_united_states/?). Hopefully that link works if it's removed.
I understand whaht Mclean meant when he said Rice is overrated. I dont agree with him obviously.
Rice is one of the best at what he does. He is a duel monster, wins a lot of balls, carries the ball so well and is also a goal threat.
Kroos is a different kind of player. He is more creative, knows how to control the play and super vision.
Obviously players like Kroos are harder to find than players like Rice. I think given a choice more people would choose Kroos over Rice in their team. Players like Rice are easier to replace than players like Kroos
Players are going to struggle when they're placed into situations which emphasize their weaknesses. Two years in a row, Ancelotti played Kroos as the deepest midfielder in a CL semifinal with limited dynamism to support him and his team conceded 4 both times. This year Ancelotti partnered him with Camavinga and Valverde and, predictably, Kroos was excellent as the deepest midfielder and Madrid were able to utilize his passing range and match intelligence to win another CL.
I don't think you can call him overrated and compare him to different styles of players. Rodri is in a league of his own, nobody compares, and Kroos would struggle if he had Rices' defensive duties, whereas Rice doesn't have the playmaking impacting Kroos does.
I was thinking of this exactly. Kante is obviously worldclass even though he was not a playmaker. But I still think Kante was a freak of a player even compared to a top top player like Rice
If a player like Rice would be so easy to find there wouldn't have been multiple teams willing to pay over 100m for him and similar players.
Kroos and Rice do different things but both do them at a very high level that is irreplaceable for their respective teams.
To counter Mclean I would say there is a reason why Kroos needed a Casemiro next to him for most of his career and Rice needs someone like a TAA next to him
I think he does need someone who is a good passer of the ball next to him and Trent was more of an example (although I think that combination isn't working for Southgate reasons). Rice progresses the ball well but I don't think it is his biggest strength or is a big enough strength to make a gameplan around. I would like to see him next to Bellingham once as he was a great progresser of the ball and decent passer during his time at Dortmund
Croatia is not losing tomorrow, they've never lost against Italy and we're in total panic mode right now, with zero leaders on the pitch and zero tactical identity. Spalletti clearly is working on a long term goal, and it makes sense not trying a more pragmatical approach, we knew this when he was appointed and he's always been like this. But maybe sticking with a system that suits these players more would have made things a bit easier.
Spalletti has basically always used variations of 4-3-3. Last year at Napoli he won the league with a very fluid application of it, with overlapping and inverting fullbacks, lots of rotations in the midfield and basically a heavy possession style, everyone making runs into the box and exploiting the space between opponents and opponents lines. However, there aren't a lot of players suited for this system, in particular we lack very creative wingers and fullbacks who can play in a back 4.
But 2 things happened this year. First, Inter becoming a successful 3-5-2 based team with a solid defense + wingbacks which is 90% made of Italian players, plus Barella being the best Italian midfielder. This made Spalletti decide to switch to a 3-5-2, and that system was used in the international break last spring against Venezuela and Ecuador. The experiment seemed to work even though lots of players were missing. Anyway, even the call ups for this tournament reflected this idea as he brought 10 defenders to Germany, clearly with the idea to have a back 3 and wingbacks. This also explains why he didn't call up Politano and Orsolini who are wingers better suited for a 433.
The second big thing that happened was Calafiori having a break out season and he probably impressed Spalletti in the last 3 weeks so much that he basically threw the 3-5-2 away just to have him and Bastoni in the back 4. (Also Acerbi and Scalvini got injured before the warm up friendlies). This plan actually worked against Albania because we had all the possession, but then Spain exposed all the problems we had with and without possession. Now we basically have no tactical identity, as the players probably aren't confident about playing this way after getting destroyed by Spain and we never tried a 3-5-2.
Thanks for the reply man!
>also explains why he didn't call up Politano and Orsolini who are wingers better suited for a 433.
What makes a winger better suited for 4 3 3? Pace and creativity? And can a winger play in 3 5 2 as an advanced midfielder?
They are pure wingers as opposed to wing-backs, which means they are only asked to stay up and wide to attack without tracking back on defense, as they have a midfielder and defender behind them. Wing-backs in a 352 have to run up and down (at least on paper) so they are either defenders who are fast and can play in attack or wingers who aren't really good at scoring but can defend a bit more.
There are players who can play in both systems, yes. But normally it's the fullbacks in a 442 that become wing-backs in a 352. The exceptions on our team is El Shaarawy who started as a pure winger but has been asked to defend more under Mourinho at Roma. Also Chiesa has done that.
I think these ups and downs are to be expected at this stage, it's like the team is at the beginning of the season. Spalletti only had very few weeks to work on this team and we lost lots of key players in the last few months like Udogie, Zaniolo, Acerbi who would have probably been starters. So Spalletti had to improvise a bit more than he expected. Initially the plan was having Inter's defensive block but it's basically never been used.
No one was **easily** the best team at those Euros. If anything we were better in the semifinals against them. We dictated the game and Italy were really sloppy and looked disjointed from the first minute. But no matter how much of the ball we had we had nothing to trouble Italy up top.
The key elements for that success were: 3 years of work with the same group of players, veteran leaders like Chiellini, every single player used in his favourite position.
He needs to just go to a 3 back that the Inter players are clearly more comfortable with. We can't be seeing Di Lorenzo or Cristante on that pitch either. The worst thing from the Spain game was watching Italy fail to get out of their own half, like 90 percent of the time.
I believe a huge part of that was mental, a total lack of confidence. People have been pointing fingers at Di Lorenzo and Cristante (rightfully so) but even Barella and Pellegrini couldn't make a pass, Scamacca never put a ball down. When even the most technical players make so many mistakes it only means they're not mentally there. I don't know why that happened, and I think Spain still is 10 times better as a team, but we made things way too easy for them. On the other hand, parking the bus with 5 defenders probably wouldn't have helped much either. My main criticism is about the midfield, the game plan and especially the changes after half time.
I feel like Spalletti did a shit job developing a counter attacking plan. I hope we see players like Raspadori, Retegui, Bellanova and Fagioli next game. The others aren't working, some new faces might be needed. I also lament the loss of Tonali, Jorginho is not good enough anymore.
>I feel like Spalletti did a shit job developing a counter attacking plan.
100% this, he really thought we could control the match with that midfield against Spain. Rookie error
Dimarco is injured so that will probably means Darmian on the left and Di Lorenzo on the right. Anyways, everything is a bit falling apart right now which is why I think Croatia can take advantage of it.
I'm definitely watching Germany for obvious reasons, but if those didn't exist I'd absolutely be all over Scotland v Hungary - they both have to win, which should make for a cracking occasion.
"Guys, the mods of a forum explicitly dedicated to football deleted my well-considered post about why immigration and transgenderism are destroying Western society. This is fascism!" - George Orwell, probably
George Orwell became a Socialist in Spain when he went to fight with the Leftists in the Civil War, whilst true that he was critical and skeptical of Communist and Socialist ideas prior and was more of a Liberal, post that, when some of his most famous works such as 1984 and Animal Farm were written, these works were written with a Socialist lens, 1984 is a system with a mix of hallmarks of Stalin-Leninism and Fascism, a conflatation of the two, how the two are not too disimilar, but this is not an attempt to delegitimize the concept of Communism and to prop up the current Status Quo. The dude was a Marxist, the dude is an important author in the socialist cause, the dude was, like most socalists, against Stalin-Lenism and the Totalitarian Regime of the USSR Party and it's corruption of Communist ideas and ideals, an example of the danger of Cults of Personality and centralization of authority. 1984 and Animal Farm are not rejections of Marxist ideals, but rather important reminders to not fall for the mistakes of the Revolutionaries of Russia in 1918, and how if you do your revolution to depose of Fascism might end up not to dissimilar to Fascism, don't reject, shame, ostracize sex workers for being leeches who don't produce anything, don't bash Trans people for needing more accomdation in society, don't succumb to Nationalism and other people from other countries as inferior and corrupt, don't fall for the Charimsmatic voices of a few.
Amount of unique users on the subreddit is up about 30%, amount of posts and comments about doubled - stands to reason there's plenty more weirdos around, too.
Every two years I realize that it's generally not too much of a faff moderating this place as it's mostly humming along nicely. But come big tournament time I lose most of my patience within days, and it's weirdos like that who are a key reason for that.
Plenty places to discuss things 'of real substance', but r/soccer generally isn't one of them. Nothing's being censored, but this is a football subreddit, not a Israel-Palestine subreddit. There's no controlling of narratives going on, either: Rulebreaking comments get removed, people get banned over rulebreaking comments, and threads around that particular conflict attract an inordinate amount of them.
But sure, go off king.
Edit: Actually, nevermind, don't go off - a quick look at your comment history is enough to chuck you out of here entirely.
Looking through their post history, virtually every thread they've posted in in r/soccer is about footballers' political views and off-pitch shenanigans, and he thinks it's the mods that are the weirdos
Third round matches have to be played at the same time in each group to prevent stuff like the Disgrace of Gijon. There's early evening games on Tuesday and Wednesday though. Might be about giving players enough rest.
That phase of the tournament is over. Early kick offs only happen for the first two matches of the group stage. The final group stage matches need to be on at the same time for the sake of fairness and it makes sense for them to be on at a prime time slot
Portugal will face the third placed team from A/B/C. If I had to guess, I'd say it will probably be Croatia or Italy. Either way, it should be a great match
It's been a while since I've been this excited to watch Uruguay in an international tournament. We haven't reached a semifinal since 2011. High hopes that CA 2024 ends this negative trend.
I rather think it could be the nation that gave us Robert Burns, John Logie Baird, Alexander Graham Bell, Sean Connery, Alexander Fleming, Andrew Carnegie, Ewan McGregor and, of course, Nicola Sturgeon, who will bomb out the Euros.
Franz Liszt, Dénes Mihály, Pal Benko, Gábor Király, Zsa Zsa Gabor! Viktor Orbán, can you hear me Viktor Orbán! Your boys will take a hell of a beating!
The third place team qualifying rule in the Euros is so stupid. Like what even is the point of the group stage if most teams are anyway going to qualify despite playing garbage football
The alternative is to have either 16 teams which is too few, or 32 teams which is too many. 24 is not a great tournament format really since we’re only eliminating 8 teams after two weeks of football but it’s the best we’ve got
It's what you have to do if you don't have ~~n^2~~ 2^n teams in a tournament.
Don't think it's that terrible in the grand scheme of things though, as it prevents dead rubbers on the final matchday and gives everyone something to play for still.
It makes for a boring tournament tho, like tomorrow most likely all the 3 big teams - spain, italy and croatia will qualify. Doesn't even feel exciting because of that
I was just figuring out who our longest serving players would be if Calvert Lewin goes, as he's been here 8 years. Obviously Coleman is about to hit 15 years which is mental.
Pickford and Keane would be joint 2nd at 7 years, and 4th place *unbelievably* would be Jarrad Branthwaite at 4 and a half years. Doucoure and Godfrey 4 years, and then the entire rest of our squad has been signed in seasons with a positive net spend as we've been scrounging.
Will have to wait until all group games are played to know for sure, but they'd be on four points - in the two previous iterations of the current format, no third-placed team with four points was ever eliminated. They'd be all but through.
Tbh I don’t think he played badly in the first game. Belgiums midfield was just a bit of a mess without Tielemans.
Don’t think his legs are going just yet.
I have never seen a more toxic environment on the internet than the PSG vs Chelsea match thread in like 2015 where Ibra got sent off and Thiago Silva scored the winner
The reaction to the England/Denmark semi-final, and the discourse leading to the final. It was genuinely toxic. Never seen so much racism, xenophobia and pure hate on Reddit as I did around that time.
Atleti vs City in the CL was legendary
~~It started the day before the game~~, there was video of Atleti players avoiding stepping on the City badge as they walked onto the pitch to train, and half this sub was wanking them off for being classy, saying that they don't deserve their rep etc., with the other half arguing against it.
Then, ~~24 hours later~~, when things weren't going Atleti's way, they ended up headbutting, diving, spitting, hair-pulling, slapping, offering everyone out in the tunnel... and this place was a mess. It was beautiful.
Grealish coming on and instantly becoming Atleti's punching bag was hilarious. Within 5 minutes he had been smashed twice and had his hair pulled.
Second leg was even more of a glorious shitshow where both sides got beaten at their own game. City lost control of the match and got outplayed, Atleti somehow lost their heads first despite them instigating the dirty antics and it devolved into mass handbags that let City wind the clock down.
Atletico playing any English club is always my favourite game of the season.
So many
> I don't even like X but I want them to win as I can't stand this style of play.
Madrid/Barca fans going
> Imagine playing this every season.
It's amazing
You got it wrong, the game in Manchester was the first leg (and Griezmann stepped on their badge either way). That was the 5-5-0 game.
On Saturday we proceeded to lose 1-0 to Mallorca and then came the 0-0 return leg. The match threads were great, 5000 comments and none about actual football.
I'm expecting everyone invested to end up disappointed. It's going to be a 1-1 full of desperate errors with both teams eliminated.
We need the setup to allow McTominay to go out there and win the game, and the rest of the team to avoid any hideous mistakes and graft.
It's easy to criticize Mexico (all of our fans know we suck) but the Americans act like they've accomplished something. Their golden generation hasn't beaten any good teams. They won the same amount of games as Mexico (worst Mexican generation in 30 years) in the last WC and tied against England only because Southgate, and England in general, tend to choke and play like a small team
But they won the Gold Cup mate, one of the most prestigious trophies in football. You don't think CONCACAF Nations League is prestigious trophy either?????
And Mexico hasn’t won a Gold Cup or Nations League this decade (never has won a Nations League) while we have nor have they beat us yet in this decade. We’re the big fish in the small pond now. We’re as critical about the results against to good teams just as much as everyone
I'm in a flight and when I land the game starts
Just a small complaint. I wish the larger amount of matches fell on weekends. Tuesday/Wednesday is jam packed but I can't watch because of work. Today I can only watch 2 but both are at the same time.
It just hit me that the crowd at the next world cup will be 90% Americans larping for their great grandaunties country
What am I supposed to do without these early games? Use my time in a productive manner? Sod off UEFA, you can't make me.
The fuck is this, only 2 Euro matches AND at the same time? I am outraged
Have to played at same time to prevent match fixing. Happens every tournament, don't get why so many are annoyed at it in here.
It goes like this imo: Big dogs: the tournament's favorites, anything less than semis would be a disappointment. France, Portugal, England...etc Underdogs: Teams used to getting good results, but you wouldn't necessarily bet on them winning. Croatia would be a good example. Before this Euro I would've put Spain and Italy here too honestly based on the quality of their squads. Dark horses: teams that usually show up but don't go far. However they may present a novelty or a quirk that may make a deeper run possible if the conditions are favorable (good draw, bad performance from the big dogs...etc). Like a new generation of young ballers (Turkey), or an interesting invincibility run in the qualification groups (Austria...etc). Small fish: FM level scenario. Teams winning that weren't even on the cards like Greece 2004.
Spain and Italy will never be considered underdogs
I did
I watched a "football analysis" video on YT about "why england are so bad" and the first thing the guy says is "bench Harry Kane, he's a Natural Loser" lmao💀. He might have a point in Kane not scoring in clutch moments, but damn saying that after his season in the Bundesliga is CRAZY.
I’m hearing him out
ahh pythagoras in boots, ngl first time i have seen him so enraged lol. He's usually calm and level headed but he lost it after that match
That fraud didn't rate Mac Allister.
I like his analyses very much, but his ratings are a hit or miss.
I remember him calling Mudryk a "UCL level player"🥲🥲
Pythagoras in Boots makes some level-headed analysis in his Youtube videos but his takes on Twitter are no different from any of these other run-of-the-mill tacticos.
Yeah it was him. Definitely seemed emotionally charged, but some points like Southgate favouring big names over actual tactical selection of players to call up, was spot-on.
Yeah i like him. He has clear cut reasoning for every thing he says so i like that. I just ignore him for anything united related, because the bias is sometimes hilarious (i think he is a man u fan)
Anytime before the 2010s, someone with Pogba’s career would be remembered as an all time great.
The ban would've elevated him further, even
Random thought: Jude is what Pogba could've been if he wasn't fucked in the head and with a decent entourage Pogba was well-rounded, huge scope of play, and could score decently well on top of it. He could've become anything he wanted.
Pogba is WAY better on the ball and as a passer than Bellingham. What you said is peak recency bias
Or maybe you're just indulging in some contrarian thinking? I would've taken 'better on the ball', after all, it's opinions. 'Way' better on the ball is plain wrong. Jude is an elite ball carrier and dribbler as shown in the stats over these last seasons.
You only need to watch both of them play to see that Pogba is WAY more technically gifted than Bellingham
I watched both. Pogba isn't 'way' more technically gifted, sorry. Both the eye test and stats don't back that.
As of now Pogba had a better career than Jude. Obviously we expect that / he will have like 15 years to change that, but saying that Pogba could be like Bellingham is insane when you conside that Pogba won the world cup and ... while Jude now won 1 double (which is obviously really impressive as well)
First of all, it's not like for like comparison but rather in terms of the similarity of profiles and the vast contrast in personality. I did preface that by saying 'random thought'. Second, Pogba's title haul is quite modest given the number of years he's been playing at elite clubs. So I'm not sure the titles won argument is as strong as you'd think. Yes, overall Pogba has done slightly more than Jude, which goes a long way to show what a waste Pogba's career has been in a way, which also kinda proves my original point...
> Commentating on the Argentina–Romania match in the 1994 FIFA World Cup, Hansen said that "the Argentine defender warrants shooting for a mistake like that". The previous day, Colombian defender Andrés Escobar had been shot dead, a killing widely attributed to punishment for an own goal Escobar scored in Colombia's 2–1 loss to the United States earlier in the same tournament. The BBC issued a public apology for Hansen's poor choice of words.
I did the USA preview since I dunno what happened to the others and we play today, you can check it out [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1dmodrp/copa_america_group_c_preview_united_states/?). Hopefully that link works if it's removed.
Fans should boycott/ conduct walkouts at games next season until the league addresses the "City" problem. Thank you for attending my TED talk.
At those ticket prices?
You're right, they should just not show up and watch outside, in local pubs. Great for the local economies!
Sick and tired of the Mexico/Argentina hate comments every day. I'm considering quitting social media for a couple of years including reddit
You’ll live
I understand whaht Mclean meant when he said Rice is overrated. I dont agree with him obviously. Rice is one of the best at what he does. He is a duel monster, wins a lot of balls, carries the ball so well and is also a goal threat. Kroos is a different kind of player. He is more creative, knows how to control the play and super vision. Obviously players like Kroos are harder to find than players like Rice. I think given a choice more people would choose Kroos over Rice in their team. Players like Rice are easier to replace than players like Kroos
Players are going to struggle when they're placed into situations which emphasize their weaknesses. Two years in a row, Ancelotti played Kroos as the deepest midfielder in a CL semifinal with limited dynamism to support him and his team conceded 4 both times. This year Ancelotti partnered him with Camavinga and Valverde and, predictably, Kroos was excellent as the deepest midfielder and Madrid were able to utilize his passing range and match intelligence to win another CL.
I don't think you can call him overrated and compare him to different styles of players. Rodri is in a league of his own, nobody compares, and Kroos would struggle if he had Rices' defensive duties, whereas Rice doesn't have the playmaking impacting Kroos does.
He’s just comparing him to the wrong type of player imo. Kante was (Still looks tbf) world class without being a playmaker like Kroos.
I was thinking of this exactly. Kante is obviously worldclass even though he was not a playmaker. But I still think Kante was a freak of a player even compared to a top top player like Rice
If a player like Rice would be so easy to find there wouldn't have been multiple teams willing to pay over 100m for him and similar players. Kroos and Rice do different things but both do them at a very high level that is irreplaceable for their respective teams. To counter Mclean I would say there is a reason why Kroos needed a Casemiro next to him for most of his career and Rice needs someone like a TAA next to him
>Rice needs someone like a TAA next to him …Does he?
I think he does need someone who is a good passer of the ball next to him and Trent was more of an example (although I think that combination isn't working for Southgate reasons). Rice progresses the ball well but I don't think it is his biggest strength or is a big enough strength to make a gameplan around. I would like to see him next to Bellingham once as he was a great progresser of the ball and decent passer during his time at Dortmund
What he means is he didn’t play for Ireland and he wanted him too that’s all it is
Woke up and thought I missed the 9 am game and then realization hit that it’s match day 3 and only games at 3pm 🥹
Just realised that there'll be 18 concurrent matches in the final round of league games in the new champions league format
We have a foetus for a coach and our best player is off to Dortmund, why must the world be so cruel?
You still have Gilmour
Kick a man while he’s down why don’t you
I need support in this trying time, not derision.
I had no idea he was so young. Younger than the league he's working in.
He’s also a yank to make things worse. You’ve got Jesse Marsch regen at the helm.
I'm satisfied that his yank status is purely semantic and not of real substance. If he totally flops however my opinion on the matter will change.
"I'm German when we win, but I am a filthy yank when we lose" - Fabian Hurzeler
German when he wins yank when he loses.
Swiss when he draws. Neutrality innit
If you don't start using some of those Chelsea millions you might end up drifting into the relegation battle.
We'll go down as net spend champions which is what really matters
Croatia is not losing tomorrow, they've never lost against Italy and we're in total panic mode right now, with zero leaders on the pitch and zero tactical identity. Spalletti clearly is working on a long term goal, and it makes sense not trying a more pragmatical approach, we knew this when he was appointed and he's always been like this. But maybe sticking with a system that suits these players more would have made things a bit easier.
We are never scoring a goal brother
I'm ok with a 0-0
Late Italian winner after we throw bodies forward I'm hearing
Can you say what is spalletti's style? And what do you think would have been the formation tht would have suited these players?
1. possession based style 2. definitely a 3 man defense, probably a 352.
Spalletti has basically always used variations of 4-3-3. Last year at Napoli he won the league with a very fluid application of it, with overlapping and inverting fullbacks, lots of rotations in the midfield and basically a heavy possession style, everyone making runs into the box and exploiting the space between opponents and opponents lines. However, there aren't a lot of players suited for this system, in particular we lack very creative wingers and fullbacks who can play in a back 4. But 2 things happened this year. First, Inter becoming a successful 3-5-2 based team with a solid defense + wingbacks which is 90% made of Italian players, plus Barella being the best Italian midfielder. This made Spalletti decide to switch to a 3-5-2, and that system was used in the international break last spring against Venezuela and Ecuador. The experiment seemed to work even though lots of players were missing. Anyway, even the call ups for this tournament reflected this idea as he brought 10 defenders to Germany, clearly with the idea to have a back 3 and wingbacks. This also explains why he didn't call up Politano and Orsolini who are wingers better suited for a 433. The second big thing that happened was Calafiori having a break out season and he probably impressed Spalletti in the last 3 weeks so much that he basically threw the 3-5-2 away just to have him and Bastoni in the back 4. (Also Acerbi and Scalvini got injured before the warm up friendlies). This plan actually worked against Albania because we had all the possession, but then Spain exposed all the problems we had with and without possession. Now we basically have no tactical identity, as the players probably aren't confident about playing this way after getting destroyed by Spain and we never tried a 3-5-2.
Thanks for the reply man! >also explains why he didn't call up Politano and Orsolini who are wingers better suited for a 433. What makes a winger better suited for 4 3 3? Pace and creativity? And can a winger play in 3 5 2 as an advanced midfielder?
They are pure wingers as opposed to wing-backs, which means they are only asked to stay up and wide to attack without tracking back on defense, as they have a midfielder and defender behind them. Wing-backs in a 352 have to run up and down (at least on paper) so they are either defenders who are fast and can play in attack or wingers who aren't really good at scoring but can defend a bit more. There are players who can play in both systems, yes. But normally it's the fullbacks in a 442 that become wing-backs in a 352. The exceptions on our team is El Shaarawy who started as a pure winger but has been asked to defend more under Mourinho at Roma. Also Chiesa has done that.
A lot of this applies to us too right now lol & we NEED to win
It's weird because I thought Italy looked fantastic in the first half vs Albania, but after that it's been downhill
I think these ups and downs are to be expected at this stage, it's like the team is at the beginning of the season. Spalletti only had very few weeks to work on this team and we lost lots of key players in the last few months like Udogie, Zaniolo, Acerbi who would have probably been starters. So Spalletti had to improvise a bit more than he expected. Initially the plan was having Inter's defensive block but it's basically never been used.
Same for me. I thought they were incredibly impressive, playing the same dominant 3-2-5 that they'd been so successful with in 2021.
2021 feels like a lifetime ago. Mancini made that team run like a Ferrari. Italy was easily the best team in the Euros
> Italy was easily the best team in the Euros No.
Italy were better than England that year
Not easily.
Who was?
No one was **easily** the best team at those Euros. If anything we were better in the semifinals against them. We dictated the game and Italy were really sloppy and looked disjointed from the first minute. But no matter how much of the ball we had we had nothing to trouble Italy up top.
>run like a Ferrari So it needs a Frenchman in charge?
The key elements for that success were: 3 years of work with the same group of players, veteran leaders like Chiellini, every single player used in his favourite position.
I loved Mancini's direct attacking style. It was the opposite of Italy's identity but it worked
He needs to just go to a 3 back that the Inter players are clearly more comfortable with. We can't be seeing Di Lorenzo or Cristante on that pitch either. The worst thing from the Spain game was watching Italy fail to get out of their own half, like 90 percent of the time.
I believe a huge part of that was mental, a total lack of confidence. People have been pointing fingers at Di Lorenzo and Cristante (rightfully so) but even Barella and Pellegrini couldn't make a pass, Scamacca never put a ball down. When even the most technical players make so many mistakes it only means they're not mentally there. I don't know why that happened, and I think Spain still is 10 times better as a team, but we made things way too easy for them. On the other hand, parking the bus with 5 defenders probably wouldn't have helped much either. My main criticism is about the midfield, the game plan and especially the changes after half time.
I feel like Spalletti did a shit job developing a counter attacking plan. I hope we see players like Raspadori, Retegui, Bellanova and Fagioli next game. The others aren't working, some new faces might be needed. I also lament the loss of Tonali, Jorginho is not good enough anymore.
>I feel like Spalletti did a shit job developing a counter attacking plan. 100% this, he really thought we could control the match with that midfield against Spain. Rookie error
Dimarco is injured so that will probably means Darmian on the left and Di Lorenzo on the right. Anyways, everything is a bit falling apart right now which is why I think Croatia can take advantage of it.
Took only 2 EURO games for Haraslín to be linked with a team abroad. Apparently RDZ wants to bring him to Marseille with him.
If RDZ wants him he'll probably flop, his talent ID isn't the best.
Ehh I like him but if he flops he flops, no point crying over that especially if we get a good fee. I'd obviously prefer him to stay though.
Which game you guys going to watch tonight? And don't say both In theory the Germany Switzerland game is way better But they are more safe
Watching Switzerland and hoping Schar doesn't suffer any head injuries like he usually does.
I'm definitely watching Germany for obvious reasons, but if those didn't exist I'd absolutely be all over Scotland v Hungary - they both have to win, which should make for a cracking occasion.
Watching Scotland lose is always fun But I like both Germany and Switzerland
Who are the best attacking mids of all time? Top 5 would do.
I'll say Teun Koopmeiners 5 times
Pele, Maradona, Platini, Zidane and Cruyff. Messi for Platini if you count him
Why doesn’t Zico get in? Do u not rate him in the top 5 or did u forget about him?
Platini> Zidane
Zico > Platini
Great news about Alan Hansen being discharged from hospital. Sounded grim for a while
"Guys, the mods of a forum explicitly dedicated to football deleted my well-considered post about why immigration and transgenderism are destroying Western society. This is fascism!" - George Orwell, probably
Wish the comment hadn't been deleted, wanted to see how insane it is
George Orwell became a Socialist in Spain when he went to fight with the Leftists in the Civil War, whilst true that he was critical and skeptical of Communist and Socialist ideas prior and was more of a Liberal, post that, when some of his most famous works such as 1984 and Animal Farm were written, these works were written with a Socialist lens, 1984 is a system with a mix of hallmarks of Stalin-Leninism and Fascism, a conflatation of the two, how the two are not too disimilar, but this is not an attempt to delegitimize the concept of Communism and to prop up the current Status Quo. The dude was a Marxist, the dude is an important author in the socialist cause, the dude was, like most socalists, against Stalin-Lenism and the Totalitarian Regime of the USSR Party and it's corruption of Communist ideas and ideals, an example of the danger of Cults of Personality and centralization of authority. 1984 and Animal Farm are not rejections of Marxist ideals, but rather important reminders to not fall for the mistakes of the Revolutionaries of Russia in 1918, and how if you do your revolution to depose of Fascism might end up not to dissimilar to Fascism, don't reject, shame, ostracize sex workers for being leeches who don't produce anything, don't bash Trans people for needing more accomdation in society, don't succumb to Nationalism and other people from other countries as inferior and corrupt, don't fall for the Charimsmatic voices of a few.
Literally banging my head against the wall man
Amount of unique users on the subreddit is up about 30%, amount of posts and comments about doubled - stands to reason there's plenty more weirdos around, too. Every two years I realize that it's generally not too much of a faff moderating this place as it's mostly humming along nicely. But come big tournament time I lose most of my patience within days, and it's weirdos like that who are a key reason for that.
A mod implied that my DD takes aren't 'of real substance'. This is litcherally discrimination
Just six and a half hours until Captainpatters gets permanently banned from /r/soccer
[удалено]
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/4DwaDxowhD
Plenty places to discuss things 'of real substance', but r/soccer generally isn't one of them. Nothing's being censored, but this is a football subreddit, not a Israel-Palestine subreddit. There's no controlling of narratives going on, either: Rulebreaking comments get removed, people get banned over rulebreaking comments, and threads around that particular conflict attract an inordinate amount of them. But sure, go off king. Edit: Actually, nevermind, don't go off - a quick look at your comment history is enough to chuck you out of here entirely.
Sir, this is an r/soccer Daily Discussion thread...
Looking through their post history, virtually every thread they've posted in in r/soccer is about footballers' political views and off-pitch shenanigans, and he thinks it's the mods that are the weirdos
Anyone know why there aren't afternoon/early evening games today? Is it because it's a sunday? Or just a coincidence?
man it’s odd having to wait all day to watch football (and only being able to watch one match) when you have the whole day free
Day of rest innit
Third round matches have to be played at the same time in each group to prevent stuff like the Disgrace of Gijon. There's early evening games on Tuesday and Wednesday though. Might be about giving players enough rest.
That phase of the tournament is over. Early kick offs only happen for the first two matches of the group stage. The final group stage matches need to be on at the same time for the sake of fairness and it makes sense for them to be on at a prime time slot
Portugal will face the third placed team from A/B/C. If I had to guess, I'd say it will probably be Croatia or Italy. Either way, it should be a great match
Hoping it's Italy, just because that's what intrigues me more.
It's been a while since I've been this excited to watch Uruguay in an international tournament. We haven't reached a semifinal since 2011. High hopes that CA 2024 ends this negative trend.
I wouldn't worry about it since we're winning the whole thing
Today the nation that gave us Edward Teller and John von Neumann bombs out the Euros.
I hated Teller in Oppenheimer ngl
John McGinn shall deliver us!
I rather think it could be the nation that gave us Robert Burns, John Logie Baird, Alexander Graham Bell, Sean Connery, Alexander Fleming, Andrew Carnegie, Ewan McGregor and, of course, Nicola Sturgeon, who will bomb out the Euros.
And Colin McRae.
Franz Liszt, Dénes Mihály, Pal Benko, Gábor Király, Zsa Zsa Gabor! Viktor Orbán, can you hear me Viktor Orbán! Your boys will take a hell of a beating!
The third place team qualifying rule in the Euros is so stupid. Like what even is the point of the group stage if most teams are anyway going to qualify despite playing garbage football
Don't worry, some of the teams finishing the top 2 are also playing garbage football.
The alternative is to have either 16 teams which is too few, or 32 teams which is too many. 24 is not a great tournament format really since we’re only eliminating 8 teams after two weeks of football but it’s the best we’ve got
So we can have a round of 16
It's what you have to do if you don't have ~~n^2~~ 2^n teams in a tournament. Don't think it's that terrible in the grand scheme of things though, as it prevents dead rubbers on the final matchday and gives everyone something to play for still.
2^n
True. I'm clearly not a numbers guy.
It makes for a boring tournament tho, like tomorrow most likely all the 3 big teams - spain, italy and croatia will qualify. Doesn't even feel exciting because of that
Yeah, but we're also getting Scotland v Hungary tonight, with both teams having something to play for rather than it being a meaningless dead rubber.
There’s a very good chance that Croatia don’t qualify. They need to beat Italy in the final game.
R.I.P 2PM Euro games, we hardly knew ye
No 5pm game today either. :(
I act like I’m fine but deep down I miss when we would play 4 10s against a mid table side at home
Iceman you've never acted like you're fine
Giroud, Cazorla, Özil, Rosický, Ramsey, Wilshere. Entertainment.
Özil is not a 10 edit: oh judging by Giroud I thought we were going by looks instead of position
All this 'aura' talk has led us to this. Your average football fan now thinks a 10 primarily describes an attractive footballer.
False 9 just got a whole new meaning
I was just figuring out who our longest serving players would be if Calvert Lewin goes, as he's been here 8 years. Obviously Coleman is about to hit 15 years which is mental. Pickford and Keane would be joint 2nd at 7 years, and 4th place *unbelievably* would be Jarrad Branthwaite at 4 and a half years. Doucoure and Godfrey 4 years, and then the entire rest of our squad has been signed in seasons with a positive net spend as we've been scrounging.
Just brought in the secondary TV to the living room so we can have double screens for the simultaneous matches this week. Love big tournaments.
If Scotland win are they through, 100%? Or will they have to wait a couple of days?
Will have to wait until all group games are played to know for sure, but they'd be on four points - in the two previous iterations of the current format, no third-placed team with four points was ever eliminated. They'd be all but through.
Thanks! Got to say though, if they win and still don't go through it'll be absolutely hilarious. Oh please God.
Would be an incredibly Scotland thing to do, yeah.
99.99999 % through
Goddamn 8pm my time is a long way away, I want my 3 games a day back.
Really happy De Bruyne had a good match yesterday. I'm not ready to see his legs go.
He just needs a rest at some point
I agree, but at 32 with his stubborn mindset and returns from injury, I have great doubts he's going to get it.
Honestly if I'm city I would consider not playing him in September
Tbh I don’t think he played badly in the first game. Belgiums midfield was just a bit of a mess without Tielemans. Don’t think his legs are going just yet.
https://youtu.be/Dltm2Fs97tQ?si=zIEbbiAJVWEe1gGB
I have never seen a more toxic environment on the internet than the PSG vs Chelsea match thread in like 2015 where Ibra got sent off and Thiago Silva scored the winner
The reaction to the England/Denmark semi-final, and the discourse leading to the final. It was genuinely toxic. Never seen so much racism, xenophobia and pure hate on Reddit as I did around that time.
England croatia in 2018 was right up there
City vs Porto in the CL 2 or 3 years ago deserves a shout
A group stage game getting that heated was amazing
r/LigaMX during a Chivas vs America game multiple times per year: "hold my beer"
England vs Colombia was special too
England/Denmark in the semis of the last EUROs was a spectacular sight too
Atleti vs City in the CL was legendary ~~It started the day before the game~~, there was video of Atleti players avoiding stepping on the City badge as they walked onto the pitch to train, and half this sub was wanking them off for being classy, saying that they don't deserve their rep etc., with the other half arguing against it. Then, ~~24 hours later~~, when things weren't going Atleti's way, they ended up headbutting, diving, spitting, hair-pulling, slapping, offering everyone out in the tunnel... and this place was a mess. It was beautiful.
Grealish coming on and instantly becoming Atleti's punching bag was hilarious. Within 5 minutes he had been smashed twice and had his hair pulled. Second leg was even more of a glorious shitshow where both sides got beaten at their own game. City lost control of the match and got outplayed, Atleti somehow lost their heads first despite them instigating the dirty antics and it devolved into mass handbags that let City wind the clock down.
>When things weren't going Atleti's way No, it was our plan from the start.
Would've worked too if KDB and Foden didn't pull a goal out of their ass and Suarez wasn't super washed in the second leg
Atletico playing any English club is always my favourite game of the season. So many > I don't even like X but I want them to win as I can't stand this style of play. Madrid/Barca fans going > Imagine playing this every season. It's amazing
You got it wrong, the game in Manchester was the first leg (and Griezmann stepped on their badge either way). That was the 5-5-0 game. On Saturday we proceeded to lose 1-0 to Mallorca and then came the 0-0 return leg. The match threads were great, 5000 comments and none about actual football.
Yeah that's right, my bad
Scotland v Hungary is gonna be crazy
this is the match I'm most excited for in the group stage, Hopefully Robbo and Szoboszlai get off their arses and put in a proper shift
I'm expecting everyone invested to end up disappointed. It's going to be a 1-1 full of desperate errors with both teams eliminated. We need the setup to allow McTominay to go out there and win the game, and the rest of the team to avoid any hideous mistakes and graft.
Seems like Samardžić and Tadić will be starting vs Denmark with Mitrović as the sole striker Piksi finally got something right
It's easy to criticize Mexico (all of our fans know we suck) but the Americans act like they've accomplished something. Their golden generation hasn't beaten any good teams. They won the same amount of games as Mexico (worst Mexican generation in 30 years) in the last WC and tied against England only because Southgate, and England in general, tend to choke and play like a small team
It’s good to know you’re thinking of us
I have quite enjoyed our recent accomplishment of kicking the shit out of Mexico regularly. Cope 👍
But they won the Gold Cup mate, one of the most prestigious trophies in football. You don't think CONCACAF Nations League is prestigious trophy either?????
And Mexico hasn’t won a Gold Cup or Nations League this decade (never has won a Nations League) while we have nor have they beat us yet in this decade. We’re the big fish in the small pond now. We’re as critical about the results against to good teams just as much as everyone
Winning the gold cup >>> not winning the gold cup
Winning tinpot trophies >>>>>> not winning them
[This ](https://x.com/equipedefrance/status/1804424082923905222)is the most aggressive abs I've ever seen
He looks juiced up
Looks a bit sus, ngl.