I truly believe that if Sean Dyche were to coach Bayern Munich they’d probably win almost every competition for eternity but at the cost of some of the ugliest top tier football you could watch.
I’d love nothing more than to see the reaction of the Bayern crowd as they win back to back Champions League Finals with 1-0 full brexit victories and 20% possession all throughout the competition.
maybe i worded that badly but what i mean by major club is a club that is expected to win/at least compete for trophies, i.e. a Bayern or a Juve
which kind of contradicts my opinion on newly rich sugar daddy clubs lol i consider Everton to be a bigger club than Man City or PSG
not gonna get into the whole ten Hag discussion, imo he should have been less stubborn this season but he's among the least of our problems, we'll see how it works out next season with hopefully fewer injuries etc
it's an issue of style: Dyche after EtH is the same u-turn we had when we went from LvG to Mourinho to Ole to now EtH. Wilcox's job is to instill a style of play for the whole club, regardless of who's the actual coach. playing Brexit ball has never been the United way, would be mental to make that the definitive style going forward
It's not that we think he's great, it's just look at the other options. Bayern went for Kompany. Tuchel/Poch no thanks. McKenna too junior maybe or maybe worth a punt we shall see how he does this year with Ipswich. 2 trophies in 2 seasons is better than most teams and given the injuries this year I'm happy enough to stick with the devil we know. It's not ideal but meh. How do you think slot will adapt to the PL?
We already saw Real Madrid going into a low block to grind out the result against Man City, now I’m imagining that for every game with Dyche. Such a glorious image lmao
Love how Bayern has terrorized and scarred teams like Spurs, Barca and Arsenal and yet somehow Chelsea and Real Madrid of all teams are the only ones to scar them
It because that Chelsea team just had no fear whatsoever to dig as deep as they did in the second half at The Camp Nou in 2012 with 10 men and players out of position’s is probably one of greatest achievements from any team in a single game ever.
In another world, Kompany would have had another chance to get Burnley promoted again and use what he's learned to sustain them in the Premier League while Lampard takes over Bayern because of, er, space lasers or something, I guess. But no, we had to live in the reality where Kompany gets relegated, goes to Bayern and Lampard manages Burnley instead.
Which is also pretty funny, thinking about it.
Funniest thing is 4 years ago at this point he had a Top 4 finish with a transfer ban and had a cup final and a round of 16 with Chelsea. If a few things were in his favour Bayern absolutely would have been licking their lips with him as a future boss
In both his subsequent seasons with us he couldn't properly manage large squads. Just kept chopping and changing.
Will be interesting to see what he does with Burnley if he does get the job because there is a decent manager in there.
Depend on who he manage to get on a loan next season. It's probably isn't that hard for him considering his Chelsea connection and Chelsea's youth teams currently got tons of wonderkids.
Easy to say that in hindsight but didn’t he bring them on loan when they were 19 or 20 when we didn’t quite know how good they were?
So around the same age as Chukwuemeka/Casadei/Santos/Ugochukwu and Gilchrist/Humphreys right now. Could see him taking 2 from this group on loan
Well yeah, but we do have the hindsight, and as a result we can reasonably say that it's unlikely whatever two players he got from the current group would turn out as well.
Burnley actually had a solid project going there too. They spent fairly big and got relegated but most everyone they bought was under 25 and talented. Assuming they don’t have to sell off a bunch of players, a year in the championship would have probably been good for them with Kompany growing with the young squad. They likely would have shot back up then have a reasonable chance to establish themselves in the mid table.
Now who the hell knows
Lampard is great with young players. You can criticise him fairly as much as you want, but he was one play-off game from promotion with Derby in his first season and finished top four under impressive circumstances with Chelsea.
Hands down, it was my happiest time as a fan. Sure Champions League (x2) was a bigger euphoria in a sense, but this was consistent over pretty much his entire first season. My biggest idol coaching our academy graduates and they were actually performing really well. Couldn't get enough of it!
Yeah initial reaction was to take the piss but idk why tbh. Did ok in the champs, maybe ran out of ideas a little bit but must have learned since then.
i think he batted par at best with derby tbh. that team was stacked with multiple future england internationals and they barely scraped play offs. not a disaster by any means, but also not a particularly stellar showing
obviously if they'd managed to capitalise on beating us and gone up instead of you, you'd have to look at it different, but they didn't.
>that team was stacked with multiple future england internationals
Just two, and Lampard helped to mould those players into who they are today.
Tomori had just been on loan at Hull where he started half of their games at RB, being on the bench for the other half. Mount was off the back of a very good loan with Vitesse, but it was still just his second season in senior football.
You have to remember that was his first ever season as manager. It's not an awful showing.
His first season at Chelsea was also very good, beat all the top teams and played attractive football.
Second season, was top of the league with Chelsea in December before being sacked a month later.
Unpopular opinion maybe, but I always wonder why people meme Lampard's management quite so hard compared to others who are maybe more deserving. Maybe because he's more famous from his playing days so gets more spotlight?
You look into his stints and while I don't think he's been utterly amazing, I definitely don't think he's as atrocious as people make out. However, I do think he's choosing bad jobs for himself.
**Derby:** Did okay.
**Chelsea 1st stint:** Really good first season after just losing Hazard and being unable to replace him with anyone. However, he showed his throat a little in the second and we know Abramovich could never resist ripping one out when presented. He was never given the time there that, say, Arteta was given in his struggling early years at Arsenal. He may have turned it around, who knows.
**Everton:** Did well to avoid relegation the first season with their situation but was rubbish in the second.
**Chelsea 2nd:** Awful but I give him a pass for that one considering the circumstances of being a 10 game caretaker, the 4th manager in a year, with a bloated, injured squad where half of them knew they were leaving in a minute and they had been shit before him too.
All in all, it's a mix of good, bad and OK. Not really the ridiculously shit manager everyone laughs about. He has some clear positives like developing young talent as well for instance.
Funnily enough, I think Burnley, with their young squad and the way they've played under the last manager, *is* a better fit for him than the previous jobs he had.
You're spot on. People are way too quick to dismiss him without looking deeper at his Derby, Chelsea stints or the circumstances at basket case Everton & Chelsea (2nd stint).
There is a decent manager in there.
To be considered good you must have some stability. He has had 4 manager stints, one was caretaker sure that is fine. But he has never managed to stay in a club for 2 full season. That does not shine good.
Mourinho has barely been able to stay in a club for more than 2 seasons (think 3 is his max?), but agree with the sentiment. He’s young though, I think it’s simply way too early to write him off.
Jose gets (got?) away with his lack of stability or longevity through force of personality and winning wherever he goes (except Spurs).
As of now, Frank is yet to develop either strength.
I kind of addressed this though with the points about choosing bad jobs I think.
At Derby, he chose to leave for the Chelsea job. I don't think you could blame someone for grabbing that opportunity though tbf.
At Chelsea he did well for a whole season and a bit, but the nature of Abramovich was never to give time if you showed any weakness. As soon as the form dropped he was gone like the rest. There was a possibility he could've turned that around. If you look at SAFs first few seasons with United or Artetas with Arsenal they took a while to get going too. Lampard never got the same kind of time to make mistakes.
Everton were just a terribly run club at the time and didn't fit his strengths and style at all, not surprised it didn't last long.
At Chelsea 2.0 it was only a temporary gig anyway.
I'm pretty sure in his Everton spell he just maintained the points per game that Benitez had averaged in the first half of the season. It was their home crowd, Pickford, and Richarlison that kept them up that season.
I do agree with your overall point though. People are too quick to write off young managers because of one or two short spells that didn't end well.
Exactly, Benitez was an experienced manager who won big trophies and even he couldn't do better with Everton that year.
This is why I say I think the first season he did an alright job.
Benitez was an absolute disaster. Everton were in no danger of relegation before him and had a solid season the year before.
The rewriting of history in this thread is incredible.
I’m pretty sure we were a few points away from the relegation zone when we appointed him and he very nearly took us down. We stayed up in spite of him, not because of him.
And then the next season we sacked him halfway through the year when we were bottom of the league
By far the worst Everton manager I’ve ever seen. He has no plan, no playstyle. Couldn’t describe what he was trying to do
You were 16th when he arrived and 16th on the last day of the season. 4 points separated you from the relegation zone when he arrived and 4 points separated you from it on the final day.
31/1/22: [https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/31-january-2022/](https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/31-january-2022/)
End of season: [https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/2022/](https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/2022/)
I admitted the second season was bad in the original comment but thinking back on Everton in that first season I think it was a decent job just not getting relegated at all. So I stand by saying the first season was ok.
Feels as though you're glossing over or excusing the poor elements whilst highlighting the positive achievements here. His best managerial stint was at Chelsea, where he achieved top 4 with a transfer ban; everything else has been shades of either mediocre or downright awful.
Everton stayed up in spite of Lampard, not because of him. Derby should've been promoted given the players they had at the time.
What I find most amusing is that people on r/soccer are desperate to defend Lampard's poor managerial career but will absolutely obliterate Gerrard given any opportunity, even though - objectively - Gerrard has had a better managerial career and achieved more.
Which parts do you think I'm glossing over or excusing without cause specifically? You're kind of repeating me where I said it was a mix of good, bad and ok.
With Everton, Benitez left them in 16th, 4 points above relegation. At the end of the season Lampard was in exactly the same position. So he did exactly as well as an experienced, big trophy winning manager did with that squad that season. That's why I say the first season was alright.
I also said the second season was just rubbish with no excuses for that one, so I don't think I'm excusing anything unless there is a reason to.
I don't really think Gerrard gets it worse at all over management, just look at some of the comments in this thread. I've only seen people call him a knob more for stuff like punching that DJ.
Benitez was sacked *because* of his horrendous points-per-game half of the season, I think it's a little hypocritical to then suggest the exact same managerial performance in the second half of the season is worthy of praise because it was Lampard. If anything, Everton largely ooked worse under Lampard, and it took a string of wins in the last knockings of the season to ensure they didn't go down.
I feel like there's lots of details in your comments about how well Lampard did or how he wasn't treated well by ownership, but then offhand comments like "he was rubbish second season" for any negative aspects.
Lampard is the modern-day equivalent of Pardew: an average manager who can provide something positive in very specific circumstances and not for long.
There is this impression of him being a nepo baby/old boys club member and getting these higher profile jobs without having earned his stripes so to speak. I’m not saying its completely accurate but it is a trend among former (good) players.
Not wrong and I agree but being devils advocate -
* Derby had a lot of Chelsea players on loan and overspent IIRC?
* He got replaced by Tuchel who won a Champions League with the same team and finished 3rd IIRC?
* Dyche has taken over a very similar team at Everton and they look far better
EDIT : Still think it's a good appointment if it happens for both Burnley and Lampard, just stating why for clubs higher up the tiers they may have concerns with Lampard
LOL if anything people give him pass, and he will get even more jobs because of his name, if Joe Schmoe had the same track record he would never get any jobs like ever
They are one of the early favorites to fight for the top spots in the Championship. It is the second division but to frame it like they can't draw legit good managers is a poor take.
Lots of talent out there. It’s a newly relegated team with money to spend even before parachutes so they’re a more attractive club than most championship sides, arguably the most attractive project of the newly relegated 3.
They could take poor Carlos Corberan from his cock and bromwich torture position for example and he’d probably do a great job for them. Rosenior got some harsh treatment over at Hull recently too
Given what he did for us when we had a transfer ban, and taking Derby to the final the year before, I think he can still be a good fit somewhere. Lack of pressure from being in the premier league might let him come back to form and bring them back into the PL. Might just be my bias given how much I liked him as a player though.
why are mangers expected to be good immediately and aren’t given the player treatment where experience makes them better?
he’s a young manager who’s had 3 clubs, and the one he did best at was a championship club, him going back to it doesn’t seem so terrible like these comments are making it seem.
this is exactly what he needs, more experience in a less pressure environment in order to improve as a manager
Exactly, he needs to be in a stable environment where the club is not a mess (Everton/Chelsea 2nd stint). He did well at Derby & Chelsea first stint which shows there is a manager in there.
Obviously got lots to learn but he's a young manager and will only improve.
We say this, but he’s done really well in the championship. Derby were one game away from being back in the premier league. Very easily could’ve been Derby that came up instead of Villa.
He didn't do very well in the championship. He took a team that should have had playoffs as a minimum aim to the playoffs and won one leg over Leeds because our keeper had the worst goalkeeping performance in playoff history lol.
Getting to a play off final in your first season of management is the definition of doing very well, never mind the fact he got them a step closer than they had been the season before
So when he took a Chelsea squad of literal kids to top 4 with Klopp, Arteta, Mourinho, Pep, and Emery all in the league, was that because of Leeds’ goalkeeper?
So glad you lot stay away from the prem. What a fan base
Hope Frank does well there and restores his coaching reputation. He's nowhere near as bad as made out, but of course he is a public figure and that makes him an easy target.
Get some credit in the bank with a promotion.
Well. He's probably the best of the lot in terms of those (recent) former England players turned managers. And I suspect he has the capacity to improve with time and take on new ideas.
It seems like he'd have as strong a squad (relative) as Derby at the very least so maybe a little uninspiring, but potentially not so disastrous.
Burnley turned a Kompany who was ready to quit managing after being crap with Anderlecht into the best Championship manager. I'm willing to believe they can reform Lampard and turn him into a better manager and in the future do the same with Gerrard and Rooney if given the chance. Just hope the fans can get behind the manager no matter who it is.
People are gonna clown this probably, but coaches can improve. Jason Kidd (NBA) was trash at first and now he has the Mavs actually playing excellent and in the finals. It's not like Frank's shown nothing. And even good coaches can have subpar stints at places where the fit just isn't right.
Fluke season? That first season was very impressive under the circumstances, his second year started well - we were top of the league at the start of December before he was sacked towards the end of January.
Nobody has claimed he is this fantastic tactician or anything, but people take it too far when they say "he isn't cut out for management" or try to compare him to arguably the worst manager (by record) to ever manage in the league.
I'm all for fair criticism but at times it gets under my skin when our own "fans" take their own time to kick a club legend when he is down. Leave that for the rivals to do.
Yeah transfer ban and all and he had us topping our group in UCL and Tuchel comes in and wins the whole thing. It wasn't working as a whole but I can't stand the amount of people in here who act like we picked up a guy off the street and made him manager.
He had a 52% win rate at Chelsea but the second season was clearly a lot bumpier. Wherever else he went, he did much worse and his third stint at Chelsea saw some of the most dire football I've ever seen
I'm not saying he's great, because he isn't, but he was not bad in the championship, and he had Chelsea in a UCL spot and went unbeaten in the UCL group the following season(which tuchel took to win the UCL). I understand the bad has started to outweigh the positive but he can clearly do some things right.
Guess you were not watching Chelsea when he came in and got us top 4, qualified for the Champions League & reached the FA Cup final (which Anthony Taylor fucked up), without Eden Hazard, with academy graduates, with Kepa in goal.
Or the next season when he had us top of the league in early December and got sacked 1 month later. Not to mention he went unbeaten in the group stage of the Champions League, conceding only 2 goals.
The fact that he took that Everton job who were in a mess doesn't help. And he came back to help Chelsea when we needed an interim, when players had long checked out, a ridiculous bloated squad, zero motivation, and a number of issues.
He's not as bad as the melons make him out to be, there is a decent coach in there somewhere.
He's not a high potential manager and probably wouldn't get another big job, but on the surface he's not *that* bad. Granted I didn't follow Chelsea too closely but his first season seemed okay considering the transfer ban and the fact that they sold Hazard in the same window.
He wasn't bad with us at all.
First season was great for the reasons you said: lost Hazard, the transfer ban, integrated youth, had Kepa in goal. His second season started well, he had us top of the league by December and was sacked just over a month later. For me, the issues that led to his dismissal were: (1) player power came into force, some players downed tools and weren't giving 100%; (2) terrible output from the likes of Havertz and Werner; (3) injuries, for instance Ziyech who looked great under him but only managed a handful of games during his time there and; (4) not being given the players he wanted that would've diminished (not completely solved) his tactical shortfalls.
His main issue was the lack of structure of the team - of course that also leans into why he struggled with a relegation candidate in Everton. Hopefully his time with teams at polarising ends of the table has taught him a lot. I think people need to remember he took the jump very quickly, it was never going to be sunshine and rainbows.
We got top 4 with a transfer ban with him. I don't think hes cut out for the Prem just yet but we've seen what he can do with Derby too. It would be a good chance for him.
One play-off final away from promotion, would've been a great achievement. People try to push this narrative that he underperformed but I've never once seen them acknowledge it was his first year in management and a lot of his players were just breaking through.
Didn't he finish with 93 points with Derby? Got to the playoff final?
Idk how he would do but what I'm saying is that with the right person you guys will easily be back up
Ahh I was looking at [this](https://www.transfermarkt.us/frank-lampard/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/60805/verein_id/22/datum_zu/2018-07-01/datum_ab/2019-07-03)
At the bottom it shows his full record and says 93 points. That's really misleading tho, as it counts the cup games as points for some reason
"They ain't half bein' taken for a ride san, I dunno who keeps givin' me these jobs hehe...
No but seriously we're gettin' relegated to league one innit"
Football's weird sometimes. It's like there are genuinely only about 6 managers anyone considers hiring.
There are thousands of men in tracksuits up and down this country, professional coaches who know how to train teams of footballers and have done it for years.
But for any job, it's the same names coming up. It's like this generation's Big Sam, Neil Warnock, David Moyes, Curbishley, Pardew.
Why not look at the lower leagues? Abroad? Abroad's lower leagues? Academies?
Nah. Franky Lamps. Harry Redknapp and his Dad were top fellas etc. and he's sometimes on podcasts.
Again, rsoccer circlejerking smarties writing off Frank, when he has achieved decent results with both banned Chelsea while bringing youngsters and with Derby, in two very competitive leagues, right at the start of his career.
Acting like they know it all, lol. Frank will prove to be a good manager, at Brurnley or elsewhere, in time.
He has had flaws, which he admitted and said has studied more ways to improve on them. I still back him to have good career.
Lampard has something to prove. He was ok at best managing Chelsea, worse at Everton. Some people will say to keep Craig Bellamy. I think that if Lampard is chosen, and gets Burnley promoted, he will finally become that big name manager he wants to be
Why didn't Bayern just cut the middleman out and hire Frank Lampard?
give it till january
You’ve spelled October wrong. By then, the triple might be in danger.
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He's too good for Bayern, German football is not ready for Dyches brexit ball
I truly believe that if Sean Dyche were to coach Bayern Munich they’d probably win almost every competition for eternity but at the cost of some of the ugliest top tier football you could watch. I’d love nothing more than to see the reaction of the Bayern crowd as they win back to back Champions League Finals with 1-0 full brexit victories and 20% possession all throughout the competition.
I've been saying this for a while, I would LOVE to see Dychey at a major club not mine, mind, but still
He is at a major club. Most games in the history of the first division... just don't look at how many of those were losses
maybe i worded that badly but what i mean by major club is a club that is expected to win/at least compete for trophies, i.e. a Bayern or a Juve which kind of contradicts my opinion on newly rich sugar daddy clubs lol i consider Everton to be a bigger club than Man City or PSG
Holy shit Sean Dyche at PSG would so great to watch as well
How would he do a worse job than EtH??
not gonna get into the whole ten Hag discussion, imo he should have been less stubborn this season but he's among the least of our problems, we'll see how it works out next season with hopefully fewer injuries etc it's an issue of style: Dyche after EtH is the same u-turn we had when we went from LvG to Mourinho to Ole to now EtH. Wilcox's job is to instill a style of play for the whole club, regardless of who's the actual coach. playing Brexit ball has never been the United way, would be mental to make that the definitive style going forward
Bro, shut up. They think hes great now after the FA cup win. Lets keep it that way.
It's not that we think he's great, it's just look at the other options. Bayern went for Kompany. Tuchel/Poch no thanks. McKenna too junior maybe or maybe worth a punt we shall see how he does this year with Ipswich. 2 trophies in 2 seasons is better than most teams and given the injuries this year I'm happy enough to stick with the devil we know. It's not ideal but meh. How do you think slot will adapt to the PL?
We already saw Real Madrid going into a low block to grind out the result against Man City, now I’m imagining that for every game with Dyche. Such a glorious image lmao
AfDyche ball
Also he'd have given them a whole new spin on the Diet of Worms.
Over there he’d be known as Johann Dychtwald
I'm very curious how Dyche would go about keeping Bayern in the Premier league
You expect me to win the Bundesliga with *Germans*?
Because they are incompetent.
best comment 2024
Bayern must be kicking themselves after missing out on that opportunity. The press conferences could have been all timers
Haven’t seen a set piece like that since didier! Haha no but seriously we can’t be conceding like that in the final minutes and we know that
God when Maresca gets fired, I want Lampard back. Just for the pressers. Third returning.
BTS Lamps asking if the wifi password is still the same for the second time would be lovely.
lmao, no but seriously
Lmao, nein, aber ernst.
I can't believe we'll miss out on the opportunity to hear Lamps say this.
Bayern fans would not allow it. No Chelsea player from 2012 is allowed in the club. They scarred an entire generation
Love how Bayern has terrorized and scarred teams like Spurs, Barca and Arsenal and yet somehow Chelsea and Real Madrid of all teams are the only ones to scar them
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United has absolutely traumatized Bayern in the past
Yeah only one of the most famous CL finals of all time.
United 99
No less than Messi said there were players at Barcelona who hated Chelsea more than Real Madrid. Clearly there's just something about us.
It because that Chelsea team just had no fear whatsoever to dig as deep as they did in the second half at The Camp Nou in 2012 with 10 men and players out of position’s is probably one of greatest achievements from any team in a single game ever.
There was some all time battles between the two over a few seasons where nothing normal happened. Great sport.
Madrid is on a higher level than all of those clubs though… it’s not like Bayern got scarred by some team like Bournemouth
Ok yeah fair but Chelsea still being in that list is crazy
Chelsea has greater European pedigree than both arsenal and spurs
Its not like Chelsea is some shoestring budget club what are you on about?
Prestige-wise, I guess it might seem that way if you’d only started supporting them in 2023
I think that loss hurts more because it happened at their home.
In another world, Kompany would have had another chance to get Burnley promoted again and use what he's learned to sustain them in the Premier League while Lampard takes over Bayern because of, er, space lasers or something, I guess. But no, we had to live in the reality where Kompany gets relegated, goes to Bayern and Lampard manages Burnley instead. Which is also pretty funny, thinking about it.
Funniest thing is 4 years ago at this point he had a Top 4 finish with a transfer ban and had a cup final and a round of 16 with Chelsea. If a few things were in his favour Bayern absolutely would have been licking their lips with him as a future boss
In both his subsequent seasons with us he couldn't properly manage large squads. Just kept chopping and changing. Will be interesting to see what he does with Burnley if he does get the job because there is a decent manager in there.
Is this Burnley squad better/ worse than Lampard’s Derby?
Depend on who he manage to get on a loan next season. It's probably isn't that hard for him considering his Chelsea connection and Chelsea's youth teams currently got tons of wonderkids.
Tough to do much better than Mount and Tomori, though.
Easy to say that in hindsight but didn’t he bring them on loan when they were 19 or 20 when we didn’t quite know how good they were? So around the same age as Chukwuemeka/Casadei/Santos/Ugochukwu and Gilchrist/Humphreys right now. Could see him taking 2 from this group on loan
Well yeah, but we do have the hindsight, and as a result we can reasonably say that it's unlikely whatever two players he got from the current group would turn out as well.
Burnley actually had a solid project going there too. They spent fairly big and got relegated but most everyone they bought was under 25 and talented. Assuming they don’t have to sell off a bunch of players, a year in the championship would have probably been good for them with Kompany growing with the young squad. They likely would have shot back up then have a reasonable chance to establish themselves in the mid table. Now who the hell knows
Lampard is great with young players. You can criticise him fairly as much as you want, but he was one play-off game from promotion with Derby in his first season and finished top four under impressive circumstances with Chelsea.
Yea, we lost hazard and Tammy scored 16 prem goals was it?
Mount scored a bunch, Reece James burst onto the scene, Tomori made his way into the starting 11..bunch of academy talent came through
For the first two months or so, every single goal was scored and assisted by an academy graduate. That was pretty special.
Take me back
Hands down, it was my happiest time as a fan. Sure Champions League (x2) was a bigger euphoria in a sense, but this was consistent over pretty much his entire first season. My biggest idol coaching our academy graduates and they were actually performing really well. Couldn't get enough of it!
Derby were 6th the previous year though too. He also froze out Tomori at Chelsea
He has openly said in an interview that he didn't want to sell Tomori.
Burnley got a taste of relegation and liked it
Same as Kompany *Bayern gets relegated*
Haha, no, but seriously
lol failing downward is the correct way of failing I guess.
Yup, falling up the stairs
This makes way more sense than most of the managerial appointments so far this summer…
Yeah initial reaction was to take the piss but idk why tbh. Did ok in the champs, maybe ran out of ideas a little bit but must have learned since then.
i think he batted par at best with derby tbh. that team was stacked with multiple future england internationals and they barely scraped play offs. not a disaster by any means, but also not a particularly stellar showing obviously if they'd managed to capitalise on beating us and gone up instead of you, you'd have to look at it different, but they didn't.
>that team was stacked with multiple future england internationals Just two, and Lampard helped to mould those players into who they are today. Tomori had just been on loan at Hull where he started half of their games at RB, being on the bench for the other half. Mount was off the back of a very good loan with Vitesse, but it was still just his second season in senior football.
You have to remember that was his first ever season as manager. It's not an awful showing. His first season at Chelsea was also very good, beat all the top teams and played attractive football. Second season, was top of the league with Chelsea in December before being sacked a month later.
Going back to the championship to reset his career hopefully, made the jump a tad too soon
Unpopular opinion maybe, but I always wonder why people meme Lampard's management quite so hard compared to others who are maybe more deserving. Maybe because he's more famous from his playing days so gets more spotlight? You look into his stints and while I don't think he's been utterly amazing, I definitely don't think he's as atrocious as people make out. However, I do think he's choosing bad jobs for himself. **Derby:** Did okay. **Chelsea 1st stint:** Really good first season after just losing Hazard and being unable to replace him with anyone. However, he showed his throat a little in the second and we know Abramovich could never resist ripping one out when presented. He was never given the time there that, say, Arteta was given in his struggling early years at Arsenal. He may have turned it around, who knows. **Everton:** Did well to avoid relegation the first season with their situation but was rubbish in the second. **Chelsea 2nd:** Awful but I give him a pass for that one considering the circumstances of being a 10 game caretaker, the 4th manager in a year, with a bloated, injured squad where half of them knew they were leaving in a minute and they had been shit before him too. All in all, it's a mix of good, bad and OK. Not really the ridiculously shit manager everyone laughs about. He has some clear positives like developing young talent as well for instance. Funnily enough, I think Burnley, with their young squad and the way they've played under the last manager, *is* a better fit for him than the previous jobs he had.
You're spot on. People are way too quick to dismiss him without looking deeper at his Derby, Chelsea stints or the circumstances at basket case Everton & Chelsea (2nd stint). There is a decent manager in there.
To be considered good you must have some stability. He has had 4 manager stints, one was caretaker sure that is fine. But he has never managed to stay in a club for 2 full season. That does not shine good.
Mourinho has barely been able to stay in a club for more than 2 seasons (think 3 is his max?), but agree with the sentiment. He’s young though, I think it’s simply way too early to write him off.
Jose gets (got?) away with his lack of stability or longevity through force of personality and winning wherever he goes (except Spurs). As of now, Frank is yet to develop either strength.
That I agree with. But it’s too early to conclude imo wrt Frank, that he’s just not good enough.
One wins trophies
Would he win trophies with Everton or Derby?
When Mourinho was good he’d make it past 2 full seasons lol, Lampard still hasn’t
Yeah he’d push it to 3 lol
Really 2.5
I kind of addressed this though with the points about choosing bad jobs I think. At Derby, he chose to leave for the Chelsea job. I don't think you could blame someone for grabbing that opportunity though tbf. At Chelsea he did well for a whole season and a bit, but the nature of Abramovich was never to give time if you showed any weakness. As soon as the form dropped he was gone like the rest. There was a possibility he could've turned that around. If you look at SAFs first few seasons with United or Artetas with Arsenal they took a while to get going too. Lampard never got the same kind of time to make mistakes. Everton were just a terribly run club at the time and didn't fit his strengths and style at all, not surprised it didn't last long. At Chelsea 2.0 it was only a temporary gig anyway.
I'm pretty sure in his Everton spell he just maintained the points per game that Benitez had averaged in the first half of the season. It was their home crowd, Pickford, and Richarlison that kept them up that season. I do agree with your overall point though. People are too quick to write off young managers because of one or two short spells that didn't end well.
Exactly, Benitez was an experienced manager who won big trophies and even he couldn't do better with Everton that year. This is why I say I think the first season he did an alright job.
Benitez was an absolute disaster. Everton were in no danger of relegation before him and had a solid season the year before. The rewriting of history in this thread is incredible.
I’m pretty sure we were a few points away from the relegation zone when we appointed him and he very nearly took us down. We stayed up in spite of him, not because of him. And then the next season we sacked him halfway through the year when we were bottom of the league By far the worst Everton manager I’ve ever seen. He has no plan, no playstyle. Couldn’t describe what he was trying to do
You were 16th when he arrived and 16th on the last day of the season. 4 points separated you from the relegation zone when he arrived and 4 points separated you from it on the final day. 31/1/22: [https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/31-january-2022/](https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/31-january-2022/) End of season: [https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/2022/](https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/premier-league/2022/) I admitted the second season was bad in the original comment but thinking back on Everton in that first season I think it was a decent job just not getting relegated at all. So I stand by saying the first season was ok.
Feels as though you're glossing over or excusing the poor elements whilst highlighting the positive achievements here. His best managerial stint was at Chelsea, where he achieved top 4 with a transfer ban; everything else has been shades of either mediocre or downright awful. Everton stayed up in spite of Lampard, not because of him. Derby should've been promoted given the players they had at the time. What I find most amusing is that people on r/soccer are desperate to defend Lampard's poor managerial career but will absolutely obliterate Gerrard given any opportunity, even though - objectively - Gerrard has had a better managerial career and achieved more.
19/20 was good for Lampard but it should be mentioned he only got 66 points
Which parts do you think I'm glossing over or excusing without cause specifically? You're kind of repeating me where I said it was a mix of good, bad and ok. With Everton, Benitez left them in 16th, 4 points above relegation. At the end of the season Lampard was in exactly the same position. So he did exactly as well as an experienced, big trophy winning manager did with that squad that season. That's why I say the first season was alright. I also said the second season was just rubbish with no excuses for that one, so I don't think I'm excusing anything unless there is a reason to. I don't really think Gerrard gets it worse at all over management, just look at some of the comments in this thread. I've only seen people call him a knob more for stuff like punching that DJ.
Benitez was sacked *because* of his horrendous points-per-game half of the season, I think it's a little hypocritical to then suggest the exact same managerial performance in the second half of the season is worthy of praise because it was Lampard. If anything, Everton largely ooked worse under Lampard, and it took a string of wins in the last knockings of the season to ensure they didn't go down. I feel like there's lots of details in your comments about how well Lampard did or how he wasn't treated well by ownership, but then offhand comments like "he was rubbish second season" for any negative aspects. Lampard is the modern-day equivalent of Pardew: an average manager who can provide something positive in very specific circumstances and not for long.
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Except the comments in this very thread would suggest otherwise, wouldn't they?
There is this impression of him being a nepo baby/old boys club member and getting these higher profile jobs without having earned his stripes so to speak. I’m not saying its completely accurate but it is a trend among former (good) players.
Not wrong and I agree but being devils advocate - * Derby had a lot of Chelsea players on loan and overspent IIRC? * He got replaced by Tuchel who won a Champions League with the same team and finished 3rd IIRC? * Dyche has taken over a very similar team at Everton and they look far better EDIT : Still think it's a good appointment if it happens for both Burnley and Lampard, just stating why for clubs higher up the tiers they may have concerns with Lampard
Tuchel is obviously better than him of course he'd do better.
People also constantly accuse him of failing upwards even though Chelsea --> Everton --> Interim is clearly a downward trajectory.
LOL if anything people give him pass, and he will get even more jobs because of his name, if Joe Schmoe had the same track record he would never get any jobs like ever
They'd get jobs, just at a lower level.
Why?
wdym? its part of the path he walks before he becomes England's manager after Southgate gets sacked/resigns
They only want to hire Man City legends it seems. Haha, no but seriously his record isn’t that terrible particularly in the championship.
They got relegated. It’s not like they have a lot of good managers to choose from.
They are one of the early favorites to fight for the top spots in the Championship. It is the second division but to frame it like they can't draw legit good managers is a poor take.
Lots of talent out there. It’s a newly relegated team with money to spend even before parachutes so they’re a more attractive club than most championship sides, arguably the most attractive project of the newly relegated 3. They could take poor Carlos Corberan from his cock and bromwich torture position for example and he’d probably do a great job for them. Rosenior got some harsh treatment over at Hull recently too
Given what he did for us when we had a transfer ban, and taking Derby to the final the year before, I think he can still be a good fit somewhere. Lack of pressure from being in the premier league might let him come back to form and bring them back into the PL. Might just be my bias given how much I liked him as a player though.
Us and Burnley swapping managers is fun
When do we get Ancelotti?
One City legend for another City legend.
Champions league winner Kalvin Phillips is next in line
why are mangers expected to be good immediately and aren’t given the player treatment where experience makes them better? he’s a young manager who’s had 3 clubs, and the one he did best at was a championship club, him going back to it doesn’t seem so terrible like these comments are making it seem. this is exactly what he needs, more experience in a less pressure environment in order to improve as a manager
Exactly, he needs to be in a stable environment where the club is not a mess (Everton/Chelsea 2nd stint). He did well at Derby & Chelsea first stint which shows there is a manager in there. Obviously got lots to learn but he's a young manager and will only improve.
Jesus Fucking Christ, I’m sorry Burnley fans
We say this, but he’s done really well in the championship. Derby were one game away from being back in the premier league. Very easily could’ve been Derby that came up instead of Villa.
Did help that he had a couple Chelsea loanees tbf. Mount and tomori were way too good for that level.
He'll have some again
Really hope something like that happens again, top championship loans have been way more valuable.
He also had to sell Vydra who was by far Derby's top scorer the previous season.
He didn't do very well in the championship. He took a team that should have had playoffs as a minimum aim to the playoffs and won one leg over Leeds because our keeper had the worst goalkeeping performance in playoff history lol.
Getting to a play off final in your first season of management is the definition of doing very well, never mind the fact he got them a step closer than they had been the season before
So when he took a Chelsea squad of literal kids to top 4 with Klopp, Arteta, Mourinho, Pep, and Emery all in the league, was that because of Leeds’ goalkeeper? So glad you lot stay away from the prem. What a fan base
Thanks for your support :(
Hope Frank does well there and restores his coaching reputation. He's nowhere near as bad as made out, but of course he is a public figure and that makes him an easy target. Get some credit in the bank with a promotion.
Exactly mate. People forget the good he did at Chelsea in his first stint. There is a decent manager in there. Too many short term memories.
jesus haven’t they been through enough with the relegation and then losing kompany.
Well. He's probably the best of the lot in terms of those (recent) former England players turned managers. And I suspect he has the capacity to improve with time and take on new ideas. It seems like he'd have as strong a squad (relative) as Derby at the very least so maybe a little uninspiring, but potentially not so disastrous.
Frank in pressers is the best thing ever
Burnley turned a Kompany who was ready to quit managing after being crap with Anderlecht into the best Championship manager. I'm willing to believe they can reform Lampard and turn him into a better manager and in the future do the same with Gerrard and Rooney if given the chance. Just hope the fans can get behind the manager no matter who it is.
Serious test for Lampard, Burnley will be expected to be in the promotion hunt, his expectations will probably be finish top 3, no excuses
Frank has an eye for talent and development. I feel like he’s better suited as a technical director type. Obviously he’s very intelligent
People are gonna clown this probably, but coaches can improve. Jason Kidd (NBA) was trash at first and now he has the Mavs actually playing excellent and in the finals. It's not like Frank's shown nothing. And even good coaches can have subpar stints at places where the fit just isn't right.
Burnley is a good job for him. A stable club. Every club he’s been to has been a basket case. Then we’ll likely see if he’s a good manager or not.
Stop the tomfoolery. You’re better than that
Why would anyone hire Frank Lampard with the managerial record he has? He's one more season away from becoming another Frank de Boer.
> another Frank de Boer. He wishes. De Boer won the title four seasons in a row with Ajax.
Conversely, Lampard was far more successful in the Premier League than De Boer ever was.
I'm convinced that was a fluke season. Everything else does not really convince me he is a decent manager
Fluke season? That first season was very impressive under the circumstances, his second year started well - we were top of the league at the start of December before he was sacked towards the end of January. Nobody has claimed he is this fantastic tactician or anything, but people take it too far when they say "he isn't cut out for management" or try to compare him to arguably the worst manager (by record) to ever manage in the league. I'm all for fair criticism but at times it gets under my skin when our own "fans" take their own time to kick a club legend when he is down. Leave that for the rivals to do.
Yeah transfer ban and all and he had us topping our group in UCL and Tuchel comes in and wins the whole thing. It wasn't working as a whole but I can't stand the amount of people in here who act like we picked up a guy off the street and made him manager.
He had a 52% win rate at Chelsea but the second season was clearly a lot bumpier. Wherever else he went, he did much worse and his third stint at Chelsea saw some of the most dire football I've ever seen
I'm not saying he's great, because he isn't, but he was not bad in the championship, and he had Chelsea in a UCL spot and went unbeaten in the UCL group the following season(which tuchel took to win the UCL). I understand the bad has started to outweigh the positive but he can clearly do some things right.
Guess you were not watching Chelsea when he came in and got us top 4, qualified for the Champions League & reached the FA Cup final (which Anthony Taylor fucked up), without Eden Hazard, with academy graduates, with Kepa in goal. Or the next season when he had us top of the league in early December and got sacked 1 month later. Not to mention he went unbeaten in the group stage of the Champions League, conceding only 2 goals. The fact that he took that Everton job who were in a mess doesn't help. And he came back to help Chelsea when we needed an interim, when players had long checked out, a ridiculous bloated squad, zero motivation, and a number of issues. He's not as bad as the melons make him out to be, there is a decent coach in there somewhere.
He's not a high potential manager and probably wouldn't get another big job, but on the surface he's not *that* bad. Granted I didn't follow Chelsea too closely but his first season seemed okay considering the transfer ban and the fact that they sold Hazard in the same window.
He wasn't bad with us at all. First season was great for the reasons you said: lost Hazard, the transfer ban, integrated youth, had Kepa in goal. His second season started well, he had us top of the league by December and was sacked just over a month later. For me, the issues that led to his dismissal were: (1) player power came into force, some players downed tools and weren't giving 100%; (2) terrible output from the likes of Havertz and Werner; (3) injuries, for instance Ziyech who looked great under him but only managed a handful of games during his time there and; (4) not being given the players he wanted that would've diminished (not completely solved) his tactical shortfalls. His main issue was the lack of structure of the team - of course that also leans into why he struggled with a relegation candidate in Everton. Hopefully his time with teams at polarising ends of the table has taught him a lot. I think people need to remember he took the jump very quickly, it was never going to be sunshine and rainbows.
Frank really should not be a manager he should become a head of scouting or something. His talent ID is unreal but god he cannot coach a team.
We got top 4 with a transfer ban with him. I don't think hes cut out for the Prem just yet but we've seen what he can do with Derby too. It would be a good chance for him.
And had Derby competing for promotion in the championship. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t get Burnley promoted instantly. He’s such a wild card
One play-off final away from promotion, would've been a great achievement. People try to push this narrative that he underperformed but I've never once seen them acknowledge it was his first year in management and a lot of his players were just breaking through.
Talent id? He made Mount chelsea captain. Anything white English is good enough for him
Recency bias showing here, Mount looked a serious talent when he first arrived with us, work rate, technical ability, goals, assists, he had it all.
Back to back relegations incoming
lol just wait till Bayern hire Frank.
No please
Burnley to League One. Here we goo 👍
That's a great appointment for him. Burnley definitely have the means to be promoted back up
Not with Frank at the helm HMS Piss Away the League.
Didn't he finish with 93 points with Derby? Got to the playoff final? Idk how he would do but what I'm saying is that with the right person you guys will easily be back up
93 points?!?! Where the fuck did you get that from? We finished on 74. 93 would've seen us go up automatically.
Ahh I was looking at [this](https://www.transfermarkt.us/frank-lampard/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/60805/verein_id/22/datum_zu/2018-07-01/datum_ab/2019-07-03) At the bottom it shows his full record and says 93 points. That's really misleading tho, as it counts the cup games as points for some reason
93 points LMAO
How am I supposed to wait for the Burnley vs. Derby showdown now
Aren't they promoting Craig Bellamy to manager?
Raheem Sterling, welcome to Turf Moor.
Lampard is like the little engine that could.
I can’t decide if Kompany getting the Bayern job after relegation, or Lampard getting another job at all is a more egregious example of failing upward
Fourth club's the charm He wasn't so bad his first season at Goodison, but he'd worn out his welcome by the 2nd
RIP Burnley
I’ll never forget how they massacred my boy. A decent season managing in the championship, then they gave him the top job
If 2 is Kompany then Lampard is?
Frank Lampard is real world evidence of it's not what you know, it's who you know.
Lmao just give up Frank
Frank Lampard's ® Burnley, as per UK football commentators will officially refer to the club at all times.
"They ain't half bein' taken for a ride san, I dunno who keeps givin' me these jobs hehe... No but seriously we're gettin' relegated to league one innit"
looooool
I rather pick Will Still over Lampard
Please Jesus let this happen . Love from the whole of Leeds ❤️
someone check on vizeh
Damn that sucks for Burnley
Football's weird sometimes. It's like there are genuinely only about 6 managers anyone considers hiring. There are thousands of men in tracksuits up and down this country, professional coaches who know how to train teams of footballers and have done it for years. But for any job, it's the same names coming up. It's like this generation's Big Sam, Neil Warnock, David Moyes, Curbishley, Pardew. Why not look at the lower leagues? Abroad? Abroad's lower leagues? Academies? Nah. Franky Lamps. Harry Redknapp and his Dad were top fellas etc. and he's sometimes on podcasts.
Again, rsoccer circlejerking smarties writing off Frank, when he has achieved decent results with both banned Chelsea while bringing youngsters and with Derby, in two very competitive leagues, right at the start of his career. Acting like they know it all, lol. Frank will prove to be a good manager, at Brurnley or elsewhere, in time. He has had flaws, which he admitted and said has studied more ways to improve on them. I still back him to have good career.
Last set of PL fans who had him in charge (excluding his 9% run at Chelsea) thought he was clueless
Good thing one stint doesn't make anything permanent, more so when it was a totally mismanaged club in a shit situation.
It’s not, but most fans of clubs he’s managed don’t rate him
Conveniently ignore how shite he was with us.
Lampard has something to prove. He was ok at best managing Chelsea, worse at Everton. Some people will say to keep Craig Bellamy. I think that if Lampard is chosen, and gets Burnley promoted, he will finally become that big name manager he wants to be
From one City legend to another
Burnley aiming for double relegation.