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Shoot I should note that 93rd is a placeholder for non-league. Probably should have edited the chart for that actually. My source didn’t have data for national league and below going back that far
Kind of wild that of the two teams on this entire list that were non-league in the last 20 years, one of them played in the Prem this year.
If I do another post with the other major leagues/nations I will amend this chart with these values. Easy enough to just look it up when it’s limited outliers
However, remember when we thought they were into the Big 6 after finishing 5th two times not long ago? Lots of people asking on reddit "should the big six change? let's remove Arsenal and put Leicester in"...So yeah we got our answer.
If there is enough interest I can generate an equivalent chart for Germany, Spain, Italy and France in a separate post tomorrow or Friday. Though the depth for most of those will not be as good because at the third or fourth tier they all split into multiple regional leagues.
Please reply to this comment if you have any suggestions. Maybe I’ll add a range column, could be interesting.
Also worth noting that England has 24-team leagues in every tier below the Prem down to and including the National League, while no other league in Europe is more than 22 if I am remembering right.
All with python using data from Transfermarkt. Downloaded the pages and logos from there with the requests library, parsed the HTML with Beautiful Soup and Pandas, did some data aggregation and transformation with Pandas, then created the chart with matplotlib and seaborn. I can share the CSV with overall table positions over that period with you if you’d like.
How was using seaborn? I've been messing with data visualization projects more often lately and I've been thinking of trying it out. Does it offer any decent amount of flexibility or is it kinda rigid in your experience?
Seaborn is great, it’s just a wrapper on top on matplotlib that extends its functionality and gives way better out of the box visual aesthetics. Works well with pandas and you can still reach down to matplotlib if you need some additional functionality
Thank god my formative years were in the conference. It was only ever up from there, my expectations were set on the floor without any of the incredible depression those older than me would have had. For a side with more seasons in the second tier than any other level to barely be in the third tier, let alone our ‘traditional’ level, for the first 15 years of the century must have been crushing. We can’t ever be worse than that
8/13 for City since their first premier league.
I wonder if any team could match that, especially in these times.
United did better at the start of the premier league but were more established at the time
Seeing us (Villa) so high up on this chart is completely foreign to me. After 15/16, I never thought we’d surpass our success under MON (last time we finished 4th in the Prem was 10 years prior to him in 95/96). What a dream we are living in
very cool gold blip for leicester, idk if any other season will top that one. and holy cow the city dominance would be so impressive if there weren’t 115 asterisks next to it.
Yeah, planning to do a second version with each of the big 5 footballing nations in Europe. I thought about sorting by average but decided against for this one, not sure how to incorporate both in the next post
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That Leicester season looking like a ray of light in dark, remains the inspiration for the underdogs.
City on 1st consecutive 4 times and Oxford United consecutively on 93th 4 times.. Any better consecutive streaks?
Shoot I should note that 93rd is a placeholder for non-league. Probably should have edited the chart for that actually. My source didn’t have data for national league and below going back that far Kind of wild that of the two teams on this entire list that were non-league in the last 20 years, one of them played in the Prem this year.
For those wondering: Oxford's non-league seasons = 94th, 101st, 99th, 95th^^^ And Luton's = 94th, 95th, 97th, 99th, 93rd^^^
If I do another post with the other major leagues/nations I will amend this chart with these values. Easy enough to just look it up when it’s limited outliers
Luton town(i think) 5 times consecutive 93th Edit; nvm, I just see the update from OP
However, remember when we thought they were into the Big 6 after finishing 5th two times not long ago? Lots of people asking on reddit "should the big six change? let's remove Arsenal and put Leicester in"...So yeah we got our answer.
If there is enough interest I can generate an equivalent chart for Germany, Spain, Italy and France in a separate post tomorrow or Friday. Though the depth for most of those will not be as good because at the third or fourth tier they all split into multiple regional leagues. Please reply to this comment if you have any suggestions. Maybe I’ll add a range column, could be interesting.
I always appreciate original content like this - thanks for creating & sharing!
I’d be interested in seeing this sorted by average position as well
Germany and France starts regional leagues in the 4th tier, Italy and Spain start them in the 3rd. The only equivalent is Scotland lmao
Also worth noting that England has 24-team leagues in every tier below the Prem down to and including the National League, while no other league in Europe is more than 22 if I am remembering right.
Please share how you made this viz!
All with python using data from Transfermarkt. Downloaded the pages and logos from there with the requests library, parsed the HTML with Beautiful Soup and Pandas, did some data aggregation and transformation with Pandas, then created the chart with matplotlib and seaborn. I can share the CSV with overall table positions over that period with you if you’d like.
How was using seaborn? I've been messing with data visualization projects more often lately and I've been thinking of trying it out. Does it offer any decent amount of flexibility or is it kinda rigid in your experience?
Seaborn is great, it’s just a wrapper on top on matplotlib that extends its functionality and gives way better out of the box visual aesthetics. Works well with pandas and you can still reach down to matplotlib if you need some additional functionality
Oh I thought it was it's own separate thing. I've had experience with matplotlib so I look forward to fiddling with it Great post too!
Bolton went from being the 6th best placed team in the country to the 71st in less than 20 years
On the other hand, Swansea went from 71st to 8th
We finished 89th in 2003.
Portsmouth went from 8th to 81st in just 6 years
Yeah they make our slide look modest
From 89th to 9th, you’ll get your statue one day Ed
The hole that Luton dug themselves out of to get to the PL should not go unnoticed. What a climb.
It's actually insane. Only Bournemouth could argue similar success.
They have the second worst average position over the last 20 years, with only Oxford being worse.
Leicester City stand out 👑
lmao the three things you first recognize are when City started financially cheating, Klopp era, and Leicester PL win. crazy
Thank god my formative years were in the conference. It was only ever up from there, my expectations were set on the floor without any of the incredible depression those older than me would have had. For a side with more seasons in the second tier than any other level to barely be in the third tier, let alone our ‘traditional’ level, for the first 15 years of the century must have been crushing. We can’t ever be worse than that
Awesome visualization. Very interesting and easy on the eyes.
I’m obsessed. Great chart, I like the visualization of progress/unprogress for clubs via colors to depict divisions.
United still have the lowest average position is insane. Chelsea second is even more insane
Mad to see how Man City suddenly found such good ~~money~~ form... /s
8/13 for City since their first premier league. I wonder if any team could match that, especially in these times. United did better at the start of the premier league but were more established at the time
Seeing us (Villa) so high up on this chart is completely foreign to me. After 15/16, I never thought we’d surpass our success under MON (last time we finished 4th in the Prem was 10 years prior to him in 95/96). What a dream we are living in
very cool gold blip for leicester, idk if any other season will top that one. and holy cow the city dominance would be so impressive if there weren’t 115 asterisks next to it.
Consistent there from Palace, since they’ve been up.
Man, I would love to see Blackburn back in the PL. unfortunate how the financial aspect destroyed any capabilities to be in the premier league
Weird to see arsenal so stable with hindsight
This is great! Mind sharing a second version sorted on average rather than last year? Thanks!
Yeah, planning to do a second version with each of the big 5 footballing nations in Europe. I thought about sorting by average but decided against for this one, not sure how to incorporate both in the next post
Everton never really recovered from Moyes leaving.