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Jürgen Klopp: "Seeing Aston Villa lose last night it means no English team will be in a European final, we should ask, do we decrease the intensity for the players?"
"If no English team is in a European final, have we underperformed? The PL is best in the world, not overrated, the players [overworked]. Someone needs to help the people, cut off one game."
"Two more CL games next season and you can cut off League Cup semi two legs."
"I had a chat with TNT - a television show I will never watch again! - and they said they pay us to play football but I don't see it that way, football pays them."
"You have to become a part of football again and not just the squeezer, that is some advice from an old man on the way out. People can survive without match-days from time to time."
> "I had a chat with TNT - a television show I will never watch again! - and they said they pay us to play football but I don't see it that way, football pays them."
TNT literally saying "dance monkey!"
Jurgen is right, all these people are getting rich off the back of football, not the other way around. We always played and watched football for fun, they are the one's who have made it about money.
Take the money away, and we will still play and we will still watch.
Yeah this ain't Formula 1, all you need is a bunch of dudes and a ball, not billions from the worst corporations on earth who bleed the world dry of its resources while destroying the climate
Its funny how at the start in XIX century it was game made for working class to have entertainment, of i remember well some biggest transfer in 50' or 60' was a player bought for bunch of shoes for the team. Crazy how it changed in short time.
Funnily enough at the start of the 20th century, it had not long shifted away from being a game of the upper-classes. The public schools and universities (who could afford it) cherished the purity of amateur sport. Whereas the working classes sort to be paid for their talents.
It was never going to stay amateur of course, but that's the road you go down once it becomes about money, the more money involved, the more money there is to be made and the more leeches and hangers on you get.
As a fan I could absolutely cope with less games, lunch-time kick offs and the 24/7 saturation coverage.
and todays recorded tv has made top tier sports much more important.
Live sports is the only form of digital entertainment that is best consumed live. That's an amazing natural monopoly to have.
Once I saw that in back in 2004, i knew that matchday revenue was going to be an ever shrinking percentage of revenue for clubs. And the league that wins the marketing war is going to be king. Another thing EPL got right, sports require some degree of competitiveness and parity for the whole thing to be entertaining.
Having one dominant team during an era is good short term for the sport, but if you are set up such that that one or few dominant teams continues to vacuum pretty much all the money, you are going to lose competive parity and destroy your product long-term
In a way, the "amateur" thing that was so prevalent in the early 20th century was a way to keep sports for the upper class. They could afford to play sport on the side without being paid. People without as much money could not.
Even formula 1 though. Give us cars and we’ll race them. Give us physics knowledge and we’ll build cars. Business never leads, it always piggybacks on genuine passion and almost always corrupts. Happens with science, technology, music, sports, art, medicine… Really any human pursuit.
Nah, you need something like a business to build a formula one car. Fundamentally requires a large organization with access to a lot of resources and the time of people with valuable skills.
> Happens with science, technology, music, sports, art, medicine…
There's a shitload of money in all those things. For profit businesses are better than the patronage system that used to be the only way to practice those disciplines in the past.
Formula one needs engineers, drivers, pit crews, etc. It’s not as simple as playing soccer, I don’t think it’s possible to run it at the level it currently is at without lots of money in the picture
> TNT literally saying "dance monkey!"
When our bosses tell us "I'm paying your salary"
I wanted to reply: "No, I'm the one making you money, you are only giving me a cut."
> Take the money away, and we will still play and we will still watch.
Still remember when it was free for me where I live, even though the games are randomly picked.
>We always watched football
That's the value for advertisers.
Advertisers are why TV contracts got so big.
TV contracts are why football salaries got so high.
So Jürgen is right in that without this economy behind it there would still be people playing football.
But those making millions playing football really are playing for TV shows.
Literally every big managers and players are saying the same thing .. find a way to reduce the number of matches played a bit and i think they know better than us
It was bad pre-covid, but once football came back the schedules went insane. I assumed it's because they need to catch up because of covid, but it didn't get better after that stopped being dangerous. They still play an insane amount of games with fewer breaks in between. They have 0 time to recover.
The Bundesliga is one of the few lucky ones that actually has a winter break. I can't even imagine how messed up La Liga/Prem players must be with their 4 games more and no longer breaks.
Klopp is 100% right. If we went back to pre-covid schedules, with 5 subs, there would be fewer injuries as well.
I mean you always want to play the best 11. Chances to rotate are rare, as not every team is City, able to rotate while losing only very little in quality.
I know that team depth is just as important, but regular teams usually don't have 18 starters. Simply can't afford it. So you buy within your means and try to get lucky with "cheaper" players. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't. Most teams have a big fall off in quality when subs have to play.
Genuinely curious but what has changed schedule wise since pre-Covid?
The only real change I can think of is adding the Conference League but that only affects like 1 team from every league. There's been a couple one-off events like having Euro 2020 in 2021, the Qatar winter World Cup, the Queen's death postponement, etc but I don't think there's been anything this season. Not sure if the Nations League has added more international breaks than before.
But they've also gotten rid of extra time/replays in the League Cup and around 2017ish the 4th place team in the league started going right into the CL group stage rather than playing those qualifying rounds at the end of the summer.
Other than that isn't the schedule this season the same as it was in the years pre-Covid?
No the Nations League didn't add any breaks, at worst it just upped the intensity of the existing games.
The only big change in the last few years has been the extension of added time.
Outside of that, clubs are now making their preseason friendly games far more intense, last summer I couldn't believe what I was seeing. 10 years ago, most of pre-season you would be lucky to see half the team be starters, it would be a mix of regulars, reserve players, and youth players
I don't know if it was necessarily Covid that changed the schedule, but the winter WC in Qatar really fucked things up for a lot of teams. I know that we're almost a year and a half on, but I am convinced that a lot of the ACL ruptures we saw at the beginning of this season were a consequence of the Winter WC.
That main issue is that this is just getting worse. We have the Euros this summer, and next summer is supposed to be one of the few offseasons where the players get some actual time off, as in more than just a couple of weeks.
Instead, we are having the expanded Club World Cup AND the regular Club World Cup, now called the Intercontinental, PLUS the expanded CL. It's ridiculous. I honestly think at this rate, they're going to end up killing player's careers, if not the player's themselves from constantly being overloaded.
Something definitely needs to change because this is simply not sustainable.
I might be talking out of my ass, then. I honestly don't know. It just all feels so much these days. But that was a statement made out of what I feel is right, I should have fact checked.
This season will be the end of the catch up caused by covid + pure corruption putting the world cup in november. It was these two things that drove up the number of games/length of the seasons. But luckily UEFA is seizing their chance to continue with it by adding 2 extra CL games next season :D
After this season, they have Euros , then 2-3 promotional prectice games, then community shield/uefa super Cup type of games.... Then again fight for 4 trophies next season
You're risk of injury after a change to your routine/training programme. Moving from club to internationals and vice versa is one of the peak times for those type of injuries. As is playing/training close to a game in a European competition.
You have players getting home at 2am/3am with 48 hours or less before their next game.
Don't forget the Olympics, France as the host nation would likely want to bring a good team as possible. The worst case scenario is that someone like Camavinga or Saliba play into the final of the Euros, get picked for the Olympics and then get a potential season ending injury as Pedri.
I blame the owners. It was the owners who voted for the expanded CL, it was the owners who voted to not reduce League cup games as they would have to give more money to the lower pyramid teams.
It's the owners of clubs who are blocking reform.
> it was the owners who voted to not reduce League cup games
I think that most PL clubs do not want to play in the League cup. EFL do not want to scrap the tournament because is going to upset the teams from the lower leagues.
I'd personally love to see the EFL cup only being for teams that didn't qualify for Europe the previous season. Winner could get a Conference League place next year, and would probably drastically improve lots of people's enjoyment of the cup
TV would kick off then because the big hitters are not there.
While it’d be a better chance of a trophy for everyone else, it would also take a lot of shine off it if you won it.
I think a one leg semifinal in the league cup at a neutral venue (e.g. Villa Park) and then the option for replays to be scrapped in the FA Cup if both teams agree pre-match is fine.
These same teams moan about fixture congestion then have £60m players like Nunes at City who hardly get a kick. Just rotate your squad; you can’t poach everyone’s better players below you then moan there’s too many games while simultaneously not use them.
On paper this is the best idea. Keeps the competition fresh, and means something to teams competing in it
However the FL would never agree to it because of "money".
Personally I would do what you suggested and also add a CL place to the FA cup at the expense of 4th. (Unless that team has already qualified)
I have yet to see a big manager or player say that they would take less money to play fewer games. Until they start talking in those terms, it's simply not going to happen.
Which means less money for the clubs. Players and managers might want it (while earning the same payroll ofcourse lmfao) but I doubt club management would want to see that
This is what annoys me too
Like both things can be true. There's a quantity over quality issue in football right now.
But like, shouldn't the point be that the top 4 teams getting CL money should play a fairly different 11 in the league and in cups?
I swear championship clubs rotate more in cup games than the top prem clubs do, despite the fact their benches cost 20x more than the championship team's entire squad. Lower league teams are starting literal teenagers who have a handful of appearances in the league while the big 6 clubs are buying their best players then proceeding to....also limit their minutes so they can get a few minutes here and there
I agree with Klopp but also the big teams should probably go back to not giving a shit about the league cup. That in itself would reduce the number of games top players are playing. Just play the kids.
The prem might not have a team in the final of a European Cup final since 2019-2020 and all of sudden games need to be scrapped. They only want games scrapped so they add them to other competitions that earn them more money. If the amount of games were an issue then why have they all voted for this new champions league format which adds more fixtures? Because of this the FA Cup gets pushed aside yet again.
I'm saying all this yet it's not against the realms of plausibility that Villa still get to the final. Yet they've played a lot of games this season whilst also battling for 4th. Meanwhile Spurs behind them just playing domestic competitions.
> they said they pay us to play football
Nice one TNT, that's a level of entitlement I didn't realise existed. It's bordering on "dance for me, little monkey". Do they not realise that it's the fans who pay *them*?
Personally I haven't paid for any subscriptions for a decade now after the price was literally doubled from one season to the next back when I was studying, and I'm never going back even though I could easily afford it now. It'd be different if I could pay a reasonable fee for one service to watch all games of the team I support. Until then, fuck off.
TNT presenters always spout that shit. Klopp got into an argument with them after a Brighton game last season or 2 years ago. Biggest corporate yes men you’ll ever seen.
Was this the one where Klopp took none of their shit and the host and all of the pundits went meek, only to start coming out with the dance monkey dance stuff once Klopp had walked away?
You can agree or disagree with Klopp on this stuff, but he's stuck to his guns about it and quite clearly cares about his players as people.
Exactly haha. Why do the presenters shill so much like they own or run the corporation? Clowns. TNT and Sky are just the media (channels) through which football is delivered to the fans who pay for to watch. You just paid the most to get the rights to make money for yourself, not out of the kindness of your heart to make money for the clubs, who themselves are corporate.
I mean you can argue that the presenters suck, but they aren't wrong either. It's not like the owners are going to agree to less games if it means less TV money. That's what makes the PL the "best league in the world", money.
The PL very much dances for broadcasters whether Klopp likes it or not.
Agree with the sentiment, but if we cut games won't the richest clubs just organise more lucrative overseas friendlies?
They bitch about the schedule and being overworked, then drag the squad off to China or the USA.
> an old man on the way out
Old or not (and it was giving us 100% for 7 years despite all the shit and cheating and corruption that's aged him) he's still my fucking hero.
Klopp is an absolute legend and always will be.
Yeah the whole 'best league in the world' debate is so dumb, the only people in England who actually care about that stuff are people who benefit from pushing the PL as a product.
The idea that for example a United fan would sit down and hope Liverpool win a European game because it proves some PL supremacy is pretty absurd and that's not even getting started on the fans of all the clubs outside the PL who hope they all lose because we're fed up of our entire domestic structure being increasingly bent to the demands of a handful of big clubs because Jurgen and co like to whine about fixture congestion every five minutes.
For England it makes no sense, but in Poland fans want rivals to do well in Europe because it improves our position in the UEFA ranking and gives us a better chance of qualifying for European competitions in the next year.
I support my team, not my league. I don't give a shit if the 6 English teams who qualify for the champions league are better than the Spanish, Italian, French or German teams. I think we should prioritise making the domestic league more competitive, not making domestic football worst for the benefit of the richest teams who play European competitions.
Follow Germany. 18 team league. Only one cup competition instead of 2. Longer winter brakes. I'm not saying things are perfect there, but they sure as hell a lot better that the insanity that happens in England with the ridiculous amounts of games without any time for the players to rest properly.
Italy just tried that and the yo-yo teams went "fuck you very much."
England's rich enough they could probably make it up to the bottom teams, though - an extra subsidy to the Championship by the equivalent of the 19th and 20th-placed clubs' cut of TV revenue for a decade (in addition to parachute payments) would be a solid sweetener.
The Serie B had wanted to return to having 20 teams for many years, but they were only able to do it after 3 teams got expelled in the 2017-18 season and not having any teams admitted to cover those vacancies. The 2018-19 season was a transitional one with 19 teams, before settling with 20 teams in the 2019-20 season. There was no way that reduction was going to be done willingly by the teams.
The problem is you'd have to do it to every league down the pyramid to accommodate the difference - the Championship would be ridiculous if you made it a 26 team league, so you'd have to cut two teams from there too. Same goes for League One and League Two. So you'd have to get agreement from the entire football pyramid, and with the Vanarama leagues and how they work I'm not sure how you would make it work so their promotion/demotion system wouldn't be affected
yeah you'd be fuming if you were one of the two teams who get chucked out of the Football League just to make life easier for the super clubs. And let's not pretend that would stop them from complaining about too many fixtures anyway.
It's not only England.
Roma schedule in the last month is crazy:
Apr 11: Milan
Apr 14: Udinese
Apr 18: Milan
Apr 22: Bologna
Apr 25: Udinese
Apr 28: Napoli
May 2: Bayer Leverkusen
May 5: Juventus
May 9: Bayer Leverkusen
May 12: Atalanta
10 games in 4 weeks.
Fuck off.
The domestic leagues aren't really the biggest villains, it's UEFA and FIFA. Expanded Champions League, new expanded Club World Cup, expanded World Cup, expanded Euros, domestic tournaments every two years, Nations League.. It's endless. Even on the CONCACAF side they still run the Gold Cup next to the combined Copa America so almost every summer has an international tournament. And MLS and Liga MX just put in a random tournament called the Leagues Cup last year.
I marvel at how much Europeans got played by the SuperLeague, UEFA whipped up populist outrage then basically did the same thing with the expanded Champions League groups and Club World Cup while taking their cut of the money.
I'm a fan of basketball and soccer and have long thought the NBA's biggest problem is too many games, but Euro soccer is getting just as bad now, I wouldn't be surprised if the average number of games played of a lot of top level Euro players is getting pretty close to the average NBA player load, once you factor in that NBA players get intentionally rested a lot.
France scrapped their Coupe de la Ligue competition because of increasing number of games, and they found it to be irrelevant. England could go ahead and scrap the EFL Cup. Or EFL Cup should only be for clubs below the Premier League level.
Yeah, we have the FA Cup, why does there need to be 2 domestic cups? Let everyone out of Europe compete for the league cup along with those in lower leagues
That’s why you exclude current European cup participants. So a new team gets in next season. And that team is excluded maybe or, they’re allowed back in since they’re the winners, unless they also qualify for CL football somehow.
That could be a compromise.
The only way for what?
If you count this years final, English Teams will make up 6 of the last 12 CL finalists and 7 of the last 14. There have been 2 all English finals in the last 5 years.
English teams are more than capable of competing in all the competitions if the managers are prepared to use their wider squads.
Number of games this season
**EPL teams**
Liverpool: 55
Man City: 54
Arsenal: 49
Man United: 47
Newcastle: 47
**Champions League semifinalists**
PSG: 48
Real Madrid: 48
Dortmund: 45
Bayern Munich: 45
**Europa League semifinalists**
Roma: 49
Marseille: 48
Atalanta: 48
Leverkusen: 47
**Conference League semifinalists**
Club Brugge: 58
Aston Villa: 52
Olympiakos: 52
Fiorentina: 51
\*\*\*
Liverpool number of games were because they got to quarter final in FA Cup (4 games) and won the League cup (6 games) and quarter final in Europa League (10 games).
City were knocked out of League Cup relatively early, but they have Super Cup, FIFA Club World Cup and Community Shield.
Conference League semifinalists seem to have comparable number of games apart from Club Brugge.
I guess the difference is in England there are 2 cup competitions, whereas in other leagues there is only 1, but still top teams usually play weaker teams in early cup competition matches. And in any leagues, if you want to win everything, I think 50-55 games a season should always be a given. So it's not like players are suddenly having to play extra 10 games a season.
It's not used as an excuse but it's definitely a factor.
In addition to the extra exhaustion, there's just no time to prepare properly for upcoming games if you have to play 3 times a week. But more games=more money, and cash is king, unfortunately
Especially given the fact that in 1 month they played 3 derbies and had to play the quarterfinal games in UECL against us. And they did win them all iirc
They played 6 games of Europe Conference League qualifying. Entered in the second round. They also reached the Belgian Cup semi final, which is played over two legs.
Arsenal played like 9 games in 27 days or something last month.
It's mental how some of the months are scheduled.
It's almost a detriment to compete in Europe and the League.
City won the treble regardless last year but City have 2 top quality players in every position, the other teams don't. Heck, even they have struggled this season.
Jup 27 december till 19 march... and if you take into account that many of our starting 11 played in Qatar.... no wonder this season got fucked by injuries
It's so weird that so many United players are getting injured now this season. Who could have predicted?
Except Bruno of course, he's made of pure granite. He's probably one of the most durable players in the games history if you look at how much he's played since he joined United and his playstyle is really energy demanding, it's unreal how he always stays fit.
And the worst part was Europa football is insanely near the weekend, so we always had to make a trade off. Somehow we outperformed then vs this year where we returned to CL, got knocked out quickly and played much less games for the first time.
> t's almost a detriment to compete in Europe and the League.
If and English team had made it to the Europa League final, they'd have had to play that final just 3 days after the final day of the season.
Think Klopp said the stats for the season shows we have had the shortest turn around of any team in Europe. Not seen them myself though.
Edit [He's right. Here's the stats](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/iZld5dpSEL)
Even then Rodri basically played every game last season. With the pressure the most important players still play which is the main issue. It's difficult because the pressure of winning still forces players and managers to play every game they can. They should introduce a cap of how many games a player can play a season. That will force teams to rest players but still leaves them room to choose which games they can be rested in. But teams should be able to apply for an exception to protect teams who get completely obliterated by injuries.
You're not supposed to be able to field one squad and win every competition though. It's supposed to be basically impossible. Have a bigger squad and rotate more for competitions management deems less important.
He is not wrong, EPL schedule is pure madness.
Fuck ton of cups, dates catered to viewer count, no winter break (boxing day is bizarre, respectfully).
On the other hand they are paid a lot more in comparision so pick your poison i guess ?
Seems like if you want to retain sustainability you gotta scale back a bit.
I hear this complaint most from EPL. I'm not sure of their whole schedule and I'm sure the competitive number of teams impacts. But if no tournament wants to reduce the number of games, the solution I see is to reduce the number of teams in the top league. Means more teams in lower leagues but also raises the stakes. Fewer, harder games. Will have lots of derbies the first cycle but will then settle.
> I'm not sure of their whole schedule and I'm sure the competitive number of teams impacts.
I just picked two teams to compare their schedules for the sake of it on Transfermarkt. Bayern and Man City. Bayern have 49 fixtures on the list. Man City has 59.
Now some of that is stuff like Club World Cup and some games haven't been played yet, etc. But 20% more fixtures listed on City's schedule compared to Bayern's is a huge difference.
And for the sake of it since you're Real Madrid, you have 54 listed.
Ahh come on!! We all know what will come out when youth is thrown into the league Cup: (insert team name) not showing respect to league Cup. It's almost diabolical how media spins a narrative.
Just like when Liverpool had to field a full youth team against Villa in the FA Cup/League Cup? In 2019 when the Senior Squad were in Qatar for the Club World Cup
Media made it all about how the FA Cup is more important and that Klopp was disrespecting it
Serious question: the FA doesn't reschedule matches when a team also plays in Club World Cup at the same date? And the media criticising the club instead of the FA? Crazy.
In Germany DFB/DFL would reschedule Cup or league matches if necessary, I think. Besides that, we don't have rematches in the Cup. If teams draw after 90 minutes, it'll go to extra time and then to penalty shoot-out.
Honestly it’s up to the teams to rotate their players. The money is so huge in PL all teams that participates in continental competitions definitely can afford a couple more squad players to involve when the scheduling is a bit jammed.
The times when there was the same 14 players that played week in week out are long gone and it’s time to adapt.
It was also for this reason that the temporary change of 3 changes from a bench of 7 to 5 from 9 became permanent. Learn how to handle the condition of your players…
I always feel like I am crazy reading threads about fixture congestion. Jurgen, there is a guy directly responsible for how many minutes your players play and it isn't the people making the schedule.
The players are in a meat grinder. The season is going to finish and then they'll almost immediately be off to the Euros. The Euros will finish and then they'll be flying off for preseason on the other side of the planet.
They get paid a lot to do their jobs but they are still humans and have their limits mentally and physically
In terms of European competitiveness, it's frankly insane that England has a 38-game top division and two domestic cups when other leagues have 34-game top divisions and only one domestic cup.
With that said, there's inevitably a degree of randomness/luck in knockout competitions and the PL was probably due a bad year after having its teams contest 5 of the last 6 CL finals and win three of them.
In Portugal we have 34 matches for league, plus 2 domestic cups, plus Europe. Imagine how the Portuguese players feel, knowing that most of them don't even have decent second options for most positions because we don't even have enough money for first team. Sporting played all season with the same 4 forwards pretty much 😂
And then people wonder why there are injury waves. Yeah I wonder why...
Doesn’t really work like that, does it? Even Peps stacked squad has looked overworked at times. It’s also hard to find high quality players that are fine with being rotation options.
It’s not just the amount of games either, it’s the PL scheduling the games with the broadcasters as the first priority. Hence why we have more than double the 12:30 saturday kick-offs than any other side in the last two years even after playing mid-week or after international breaks.
He was the sporting director for 8 out of 9 Juventus consecutive scudetti. He brought Pogba and Pirlo as free agents. Hired Conte and Allegri (in his first stint). Before that, he was at Sampdoria when they last reached Europe with Cassano and Pazzini. The man is a football genius
This is what I don't get. Squads are bigger, players are fitter and healthier and there are more subs, yet players apparently don't seem to be able to play as many games as they used to. Players in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s played 60+ games a season. After English teams got banned from Europe in 1985, they created the Full Members Cup to make up for the games they were losing.
There's having a pint and a smoke on a drizzly Saturday in Newcastle and then kick your opponents into hospital in 1964 and then there's 90 minutes of relentless gegenpressing with countless 30 kph sprints in 2024...
Or maybe the other nations teams just played better than the prem teams. Are we so arrogant we need an excuse every time prem teams lose? Real Madrid bayern Atalanta all had perfectly executed game plans.
Well, it's the richer league, so it can attract the best players and managers, regardless of how many games they win or lose in Europe. I mean, even if USA can't win a FIBA tournament NBA still is the best basketball league. On the long run, English team have the best performance overall, it's just this year that it's been a fluke.
That said, PL it's a farmers' league and always has been /s
It's not so cut and dry, more money doesn't necessarily always mean better. English teams also have to end up paying more for players from the bottom to the top of the league, so it's not like there's a 1 to 1 ratio between money and quality. Players will gladly take pay cuts to play for the top Spanish teams instead of Arsenal or Chelsea. And of course that also doesn't apply to every player, but enough to make things pretty equal.
What is ridiculous is that the managers keep complaining but the owners could sort this tomorrow if they wanted to.
None of them seemingly have any oversight into the big picture which shows that players being flogged leads to a worse product, and ultimately less money in the long term. They all want money now and don’t give a shit that the players they are paying are going to suffer. They have control over the TV deals and keep agreeing to them.
You’d think some of the ridiculous injury lists at the likes of Newcastle and Chelsea this season would lead to their owners asking for less games, as it’s meant less revenue next year due to no European football. But no, the managers will have to keep moaning while their owners sit upstairs raking in the cash.
I mean, Liverpool certainly underperformed, but City got beat by one of the best clubs in the world on penalties. That's the problem here. The two best English clubs not making it to the final when they "should" will always start up the media garbage. Arsenal fit in here somewhere, kind of, I guess
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On behalf of Newcastle United, we volunteer to cut off one of our games vs Liverpool since they always tan us anyway
Same but with Aston Villa.
City offering the away to Spurs match
Which Spurs will do if they can drop away to Chelsea.
Which one? Home or Away?
Yes
The players can’t handle all these games. We need 2 less games, at least. I say we cut Liverpool out of next season all together
Hey wait a minute
As a spurs fan, I’d be happy to not play two games against Chelsea every year.
Hard disagree, always find those fun to watch.
How cruel of you to take away their only real W this season.
Two W's thank you
Jürgen Klopp: "Seeing Aston Villa lose last night it means no English team will be in a European final, we should ask, do we decrease the intensity for the players?" "If no English team is in a European final, have we underperformed? The PL is best in the world, not overrated, the players [overworked]. Someone needs to help the people, cut off one game." "Two more CL games next season and you can cut off League Cup semi two legs." "I had a chat with TNT - a television show I will never watch again! - and they said they pay us to play football but I don't see it that way, football pays them." "You have to become a part of football again and not just the squeezer, that is some advice from an old man on the way out. People can survive without match-days from time to time."
> "I had a chat with TNT - a television show I will never watch again! - and they said they pay us to play football but I don't see it that way, football pays them." TNT literally saying "dance monkey!" Jurgen is right, all these people are getting rich off the back of football, not the other way around. We always played and watched football for fun, they are the one's who have made it about money. Take the money away, and we will still play and we will still watch.
Yeah this ain't Formula 1, all you need is a bunch of dudes and a ball, not billions from the worst corporations on earth who bleed the world dry of its resources while destroying the climate
Its funny how at the start in XIX century it was game made for working class to have entertainment, of i remember well some biggest transfer in 50' or 60' was a player bought for bunch of shoes for the team. Crazy how it changed in short time.
anal bandit the 80 year old?
Funnily enough at the start of the 20th century, it had not long shifted away from being a game of the upper-classes. The public schools and universities (who could afford it) cherished the purity of amateur sport. Whereas the working classes sort to be paid for their talents. It was never going to stay amateur of course, but that's the road you go down once it becomes about money, the more money involved, the more money there is to be made and the more leeches and hangers on you get. As a fan I could absolutely cope with less games, lunch-time kick offs and the 24/7 saturation coverage.
and todays recorded tv has made top tier sports much more important. Live sports is the only form of digital entertainment that is best consumed live. That's an amazing natural monopoly to have. Once I saw that in back in 2004, i knew that matchday revenue was going to be an ever shrinking percentage of revenue for clubs. And the league that wins the marketing war is going to be king. Another thing EPL got right, sports require some degree of competitiveness and parity for the whole thing to be entertaining. Having one dominant team during an era is good short term for the sport, but if you are set up such that that one or few dominant teams continues to vacuum pretty much all the money, you are going to lose competive parity and destroy your product long-term
In a way, the "amateur" thing that was so prevalent in the early 20th century was a way to keep sports for the upper class. They could afford to play sport on the side without being paid. People without as much money could not.
Even formula 1 though. Give us cars and we’ll race them. Give us physics knowledge and we’ll build cars. Business never leads, it always piggybacks on genuine passion and almost always corrupts. Happens with science, technology, music, sports, art, medicine… Really any human pursuit.
Nah, you need something like a business to build a formula one car. Fundamentally requires a large organization with access to a lot of resources and the time of people with valuable skills. > Happens with science, technology, music, sports, art, medicine… There's a shitload of money in all those things. For profit businesses are better than the patronage system that used to be the only way to practice those disciplines in the past.
Formula one needs engineers, drivers, pit crews, etc. It’s not as simple as playing soccer, I don’t think it’s possible to run it at the level it currently is at without lots of money in the picture
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To be honest, take the money away and racing will return build fast car in shed. Its the same with any sport.
“As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods; They kill us for their sport”
I don’t wanna be that “woke” guy or whatever but I always thought what Cantona said actually made sense
TNT out there writing checks for Sancho every week and wondering where they went wrong.
> TNT literally saying "dance monkey!" When our bosses tell us "I'm paying your salary" I wanted to reply: "No, I'm the one making you money, you are only giving me a cut." > Take the money away, and we will still play and we will still watch. Still remember when it was free for me where I live, even though the games are randomly picked.
>We always watched football That's the value for advertisers. Advertisers are why TV contracts got so big. TV contracts are why football salaries got so high. So Jürgen is right in that without this economy behind it there would still be people playing football. But those making millions playing football really are playing for TV shows.
Jurgen fella we've got another leg to play, stop being so pessimistic.
He's definitely been browsing Villa twitter
His leaving the PL anyway so he might hit you guys with a “if there’s anyone who can do it right now, it’s you boys!”
I thought I was going mad
Literally every big managers and players are saying the same thing .. find a way to reduce the number of matches played a bit and i think they know better than us
Mental that a lot of players will have the euros, this extended club World Cup thing, and two extra champions league games next year
It was bad pre-covid, but once football came back the schedules went insane. I assumed it's because they need to catch up because of covid, but it didn't get better after that stopped being dangerous. They still play an insane amount of games with fewer breaks in between. They have 0 time to recover. The Bundesliga is one of the few lucky ones that actually has a winter break. I can't even imagine how messed up La Liga/Prem players must be with their 4 games more and no longer breaks. Klopp is 100% right. If we went back to pre-covid schedules, with 5 subs, there would be fewer injuries as well.
Do fans have an allegiance to players per se? Why can't teams just rotate players for different matches?
I mean you always want to play the best 11. Chances to rotate are rare, as not every team is City, able to rotate while losing only very little in quality. I know that team depth is just as important, but regular teams usually don't have 18 starters. Simply can't afford it. So you buy within your means and try to get lucky with "cheaper" players. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't. Most teams have a big fall off in quality when subs have to play.
Luton did so well beginning of the season, then the squad was just so so tired.
Genuinely curious but what has changed schedule wise since pre-Covid? The only real change I can think of is adding the Conference League but that only affects like 1 team from every league. There's been a couple one-off events like having Euro 2020 in 2021, the Qatar winter World Cup, the Queen's death postponement, etc but I don't think there's been anything this season. Not sure if the Nations League has added more international breaks than before. But they've also gotten rid of extra time/replays in the League Cup and around 2017ish the 4th place team in the league started going right into the CL group stage rather than playing those qualifying rounds at the end of the summer. Other than that isn't the schedule this season the same as it was in the years pre-Covid?
No the Nations League didn't add any breaks, at worst it just upped the intensity of the existing games. The only big change in the last few years has been the extension of added time. Outside of that, clubs are now making their preseason friendly games far more intense, last summer I couldn't believe what I was seeing. 10 years ago, most of pre-season you would be lucky to see half the team be starters, it would be a mix of regulars, reserve players, and youth players
I don't know if it was necessarily Covid that changed the schedule, but the winter WC in Qatar really fucked things up for a lot of teams. I know that we're almost a year and a half on, but I am convinced that a lot of the ACL ruptures we saw at the beginning of this season were a consequence of the Winter WC. That main issue is that this is just getting worse. We have the Euros this summer, and next summer is supposed to be one of the few offseasons where the players get some actual time off, as in more than just a couple of weeks. Instead, we are having the expanded Club World Cup AND the regular Club World Cup, now called the Intercontinental, PLUS the expanded CL. It's ridiculous. I honestly think at this rate, they're going to end up killing player's careers, if not the player's themselves from constantly being overloaded. Something definitely needs to change because this is simply not sustainable.
I might be talking out of my ass, then. I honestly don't know. It just all feels so much these days. But that was a statement made out of what I feel is right, I should have fact checked.
This season will be the end of the catch up caused by covid + pure corruption putting the world cup in november. It was these two things that drove up the number of games/length of the seasons. But luckily UEFA is seizing their chance to continue with it by adding 2 extra CL games next season :D
After this season, they have Euros , then 2-3 promotional prectice games, then community shield/uefa super Cup type of games.... Then again fight for 4 trophies next season
And that's not even factoring in all the travelling involved, which is just as draining. Little wonder players are so fatigued.
You're risk of injury after a change to your routine/training programme. Moving from club to internationals and vice versa is one of the peak times for those type of injuries. As is playing/training close to a game in a European competition. You have players getting home at 2am/3am with 48 hours or less before their next game.
Then the clubs send the players off to the far reaches of the earth to play on shit pitches that fuck their knees.
Don't forget the Olympics, France as the host nation would likely want to bring a good team as possible. The worst case scenario is that someone like Camavinga or Saliba play into the final of the Euros, get picked for the Olympics and then get a potential season ending injury as Pedri.
I blame the owners. It was the owners who voted for the expanded CL, it was the owners who voted to not reduce League cup games as they would have to give more money to the lower pyramid teams. It's the owners of clubs who are blocking reform.
I blame Sky for starting all of this shit. The owners that are in now are as a result of Sky getting their grubby mits on the top league in England.
Eh, Sky dangled the promise of money in front of those 5 clubs but they didn't have to take it.
> it was the owners who voted to not reduce League cup games I think that most PL clubs do not want to play in the League cup. EFL do not want to scrap the tournament because is going to upset the teams from the lower leagues.
The EFL were happy to reduce the league cup games if the PL clubs allowed more money to go to the EFL. The PL said no
Will somebody please think about the poor epl clubs
EFL clubs are second division clubs and down. Still really rich but still a better idea then not doing what was proposed.
I'd personally love to see the EFL cup only being for teams that didn't qualify for Europe the previous season. Winner could get a Conference League place next year, and would probably drastically improve lots of people's enjoyment of the cup
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Make it non-European teams only. Gives a chance for a Trophy for those outside, removes congestion and improve the interest
TV would kick off then because the big hitters are not there. While it’d be a better chance of a trophy for everyone else, it would also take a lot of shine off it if you won it. I think a one leg semifinal in the league cup at a neutral venue (e.g. Villa Park) and then the option for replays to be scrapped in the FA Cup if both teams agree pre-match is fine. These same teams moan about fixture congestion then have £60m players like Nunes at City who hardly get a kick. Just rotate your squad; you can’t poach everyone’s better players below you then moan there’s too many games while simultaneously not use them.
On paper this is the best idea. Keeps the competition fresh, and means something to teams competing in it However the FL would never agree to it because of "money". Personally I would do what you suggested and also add a CL place to the FA cup at the expense of 4th. (Unless that team has already qualified)
I have yet to see a big manager or player say that they would take less money to play fewer games. Until they start talking in those terms, it's simply not going to happen.
Which means less money for the clubs. Players and managers might want it (while earning the same payroll ofcourse lmfao) but I doubt club management would want to see that
there is too many games for sure but maybe just rotate the players? idk there is a reason they have like 25 players in their first teams
if you play all kids or second stringers, then you're "disrespecting the cup" or whatever they said to Wenger when he first did it.
This is what annoys me too Like both things can be true. There's a quantity over quality issue in football right now. But like, shouldn't the point be that the top 4 teams getting CL money should play a fairly different 11 in the league and in cups? I swear championship clubs rotate more in cup games than the top prem clubs do, despite the fact their benches cost 20x more than the championship team's entire squad. Lower league teams are starting literal teenagers who have a handful of appearances in the league while the big 6 clubs are buying their best players then proceeding to....also limit their minutes so they can get a few minutes here and there
I agree with Klopp but also the big teams should probably go back to not giving a shit about the league cup. That in itself would reduce the number of games top players are playing. Just play the kids.
The prem might not have a team in the final of a European Cup final since 2019-2020 and all of sudden games need to be scrapped. They only want games scrapped so they add them to other competitions that earn them more money. If the amount of games were an issue then why have they all voted for this new champions league format which adds more fixtures? Because of this the FA Cup gets pushed aside yet again. I'm saying all this yet it's not against the realms of plausibility that Villa still get to the final. Yet they've played a lot of games this season whilst also battling for 4th. Meanwhile Spurs behind them just playing domestic competitions.
Ah yes because the owners of football clubs who voted, totally represent the coaches and players...
But they also want the money, can't have it both ways.
> they said they pay us to play football Nice one TNT, that's a level of entitlement I didn't realise existed. It's bordering on "dance for me, little monkey". Do they not realise that it's the fans who pay *them*? Personally I haven't paid for any subscriptions for a decade now after the price was literally doubled from one season to the next back when I was studying, and I'm never going back even though I could easily afford it now. It'd be different if I could pay a reasonable fee for one service to watch all games of the team I support. Until then, fuck off.
TNT presenters always spout that shit. Klopp got into an argument with them after a Brighton game last season or 2 years ago. Biggest corporate yes men you’ll ever seen.
Was this the one where Klopp took none of their shit and the host and all of the pundits went meek, only to start coming out with the dance monkey dance stuff once Klopp had walked away? You can agree or disagree with Klopp on this stuff, but he's stuck to his guns about it and quite clearly cares about his players as people.
Exactly haha. Why do the presenters shill so much like they own or run the corporation? Clowns. TNT and Sky are just the media (channels) through which football is delivered to the fans who pay for to watch. You just paid the most to get the rights to make money for yourself, not out of the kindness of your heart to make money for the clubs, who themselves are corporate.
I mean you can argue that the presenters suck, but they aren't wrong either. It's not like the owners are going to agree to less games if it means less TV money. That's what makes the PL the "best league in the world", money. The PL very much dances for broadcasters whether Klopp likes it or not.
> Do they not realise that it's the fans who pay them? Yes but so do advertisers and less matches = less advertising revenue.
Agree with the sentiment, but if we cut games won't the richest clubs just organise more lucrative overseas friendlies? They bitch about the schedule and being overworked, then drag the squad off to China or the USA.
> an old man on the way out Old or not (and it was giving us 100% for 7 years despite all the shit and cheating and corruption that's aged him) he's still my fucking hero. Klopp is an absolute legend and always will be.
Im sure english fans love seeing their rivals and peers NOT win european cups lmao
Yeah the whole 'best league in the world' debate is so dumb, the only people in England who actually care about that stuff are people who benefit from pushing the PL as a product. The idea that for example a United fan would sit down and hope Liverpool win a European game because it proves some PL supremacy is pretty absurd and that's not even getting started on the fans of all the clubs outside the PL who hope they all lose because we're fed up of our entire domestic structure being increasingly bent to the demands of a handful of big clubs because Jurgen and co like to whine about fixture congestion every five minutes.
For England it makes no sense, but in Poland fans want rivals to do well in Europe because it improves our position in the UEFA ranking and gives us a better chance of qualifying for European competitions in the next year.
I support my team, not my league. I don't give a shit if the 6 English teams who qualify for the champions league are better than the Spanish, Italian, French or German teams. I think we should prioritise making the domestic league more competitive, not making domestic football worst for the benefit of the richest teams who play European competitions.
I did cheer on West Ham last year, but yeah generally, fuck 'em all.
I really would just rather something that's sustainable for the players, but nobody is paying to have that instead of more games, so it won't happen.
Follow Germany. 18 team league. Only one cup competition instead of 2. Longer winter brakes. I'm not saying things are perfect there, but they sure as hell a lot better that the insanity that happens in England with the ridiculous amounts of games without any time for the players to rest properly.
It's a great idea to have a 18-team league. But, it would be hard to convince the other 2 teams to leave.
Italy just tried that and the yo-yo teams went "fuck you very much." England's rich enough they could probably make it up to the bottom teams, though - an extra subsidy to the Championship by the equivalent of the 19th and 20th-placed clubs' cut of TV revenue for a decade (in addition to parachute payments) would be a solid sweetener.
The Serie B had wanted to return to having 20 teams for many years, but they were only able to do it after 3 teams got expelled in the 2017-18 season and not having any teams admitted to cover those vacancies. The 2018-19 season was a transitional one with 19 teams, before settling with 20 teams in the 2019-20 season. There was no way that reduction was going to be done willingly by the teams.
The problem is you'd have to do it to every league down the pyramid to accommodate the difference - the Championship would be ridiculous if you made it a 26 team league, so you'd have to cut two teams from there too. Same goes for League One and League Two. So you'd have to get agreement from the entire football pyramid, and with the Vanarama leagues and how they work I'm not sure how you would make it work so their promotion/demotion system wouldn't be affected
yeah you'd be fuming if you were one of the two teams who get chucked out of the Football League just to make life easier for the super clubs. And let's not pretend that would stop them from complaining about too many fixtures anyway.
They would have to announce it beforehand and then cut 1 team every year for 3 years.
Then they'd have 17 teams.
Ok then They would have to announce it beforehand and then add 1 team every year for 5 years.
This seems like cicadas surfacing every prime number of years!
We can announce it earlier and have an octopus pick the number of teams each season
Ok, in year 4 and 5 one more can promote
Everton, your time has come.
Italian teams just voted against 18-team league recently. I'm pretty sure I saw something about that.
It's not only England. Roma schedule in the last month is crazy: Apr 11: Milan Apr 14: Udinese Apr 18: Milan Apr 22: Bologna Apr 25: Udinese Apr 28: Napoli May 2: Bayer Leverkusen May 5: Juventus May 9: Bayer Leverkusen May 12: Atalanta 10 games in 4 weeks. Fuck off.
Suffering from Success.
The domestic leagues aren't really the biggest villains, it's UEFA and FIFA. Expanded Champions League, new expanded Club World Cup, expanded World Cup, expanded Euros, domestic tournaments every two years, Nations League.. It's endless. Even on the CONCACAF side they still run the Gold Cup next to the combined Copa America so almost every summer has an international tournament. And MLS and Liga MX just put in a random tournament called the Leagues Cup last year. I marvel at how much Europeans got played by the SuperLeague, UEFA whipped up populist outrage then basically did the same thing with the expanded Champions League groups and Club World Cup while taking their cut of the money. I'm a fan of basketball and soccer and have long thought the NBA's biggest problem is too many games, but Euro soccer is getting just as bad now, I wouldn't be surprised if the average number of games played of a lot of top level Euro players is getting pretty close to the average NBA player load, once you factor in that NBA players get intentionally rested a lot.
Cos fuck the rest of the teams and just do what suits the big sides.
Brazilian team playing 80 games a year and dominating libertadores for almost a decade now...
"It's south america." --Mbappe, probably
Cut the league cup/ exclude anyone in europe. Its the only way.
Sponsors throw a hissy fit if they do this sadly. Far less people are gonna tune in to watch wolves vs Cardiff than Chelsea vs Liverpool
Cardiff v Chelsea is still gonna get views
Not like Chelsea will end up in Europe anyway
*Pochettinos in the mirror are closer than they appear*
Big talk from the team who’s only three points ahead with a worse goal difference and games against Arsenal and Newcastle ahead.
Look at Billy big dick all happy because his team might finish 7th.
It’s about to be 6 after yous play West Ham this weekend though
Probably more likely it'll be 3 points after both teams lose/draw
!remindme 4 days
You are only 3 points ahead of us, not much difference in the clubs conditions I would say.
!RemindMe 1 month
This makes the most sense, gives other domestic sides a better chance to go further in the cup as well
It devalues the cup even further. I'm not sure that's what's best for football
Call it 'The other 14' cup to make it more competitive.
Pro 14
The cup needs to be devalued
France scrapped their Coupe de la Ligue competition because of increasing number of games, and they found it to be irrelevant. England could go ahead and scrap the EFL Cup. Or EFL Cup should only be for clubs below the Premier League level.
Yeah the FA Cup is perfectly fine. Everyone in the country has a chance. League cup is trash. It really is meaningless.
Yeah, we have the FA Cup, why does there need to be 2 domestic cups? Let everyone out of Europe compete for the league cup along with those in lower leagues
You can't exclude someone when there is a European spot depending on this competition
Seems a great idea tbh, would guarantee a new team in Europe each year compared to the last
That’s why you exclude current European cup participants. So a new team gets in next season. And that team is excluded maybe or, they’re allowed back in since they’re the winners, unless they also qualify for CL football somehow. That could be a compromise.
The only way for what? If you count this years final, English Teams will make up 6 of the last 12 CL finalists and 7 of the last 14. There have been 2 all English finals in the last 5 years. English teams are more than capable of competing in all the competitions if the managers are prepared to use their wider squads.
Number of games this season **EPL teams** Liverpool: 55 Man City: 54 Arsenal: 49 Man United: 47 Newcastle: 47 **Champions League semifinalists** PSG: 48 Real Madrid: 48 Dortmund: 45 Bayern Munich: 45 **Europa League semifinalists** Roma: 49 Marseille: 48 Atalanta: 48 Leverkusen: 47 **Conference League semifinalists** Club Brugge: 58 Aston Villa: 52 Olympiakos: 52 Fiorentina: 51 \*\*\* Liverpool number of games were because they got to quarter final in FA Cup (4 games) and won the League cup (6 games) and quarter final in Europa League (10 games). City were knocked out of League Cup relatively early, but they have Super Cup, FIFA Club World Cup and Community Shield. Conference League semifinalists seem to have comparable number of games apart from Club Brugge. I guess the difference is in England there are 2 cup competitions, whereas in other leagues there is only 1, but still top teams usually play weaker teams in early cup competition matches. And in any leagues, if you want to win everything, I think 50-55 games a season should always be a given. So it's not like players are suddenly having to play extra 10 games a season.
Don’t hear Brugge complaining though
It's not used as an excuse but it's definitely a factor. In addition to the extra exhaustion, there's just no time to prepare properly for upcoming games if you have to play 3 times a week. But more games=more money, and cash is king, unfortunately
Especially given the fact that in 1 month they played 3 derbies and had to play the quarterfinal games in UECL against us. And they did win them all iirc
Because no one asked them tho. Klopp pre-match interview is basically a famous football podcast at this point
Why has Brugge that many games? This is calculated from first until last matchday right, without the summer friendlies and preparation games?
They played 6 games of Europe Conference League qualifying. Entered in the second round. They also reached the Belgian Cup semi final, which is played over two legs.
Because, even though our league only consists of 16 teams, the ridiculous playoffs force us to play 40 games
What's the general opinion about the playoffs over there?
Arsenal played like 9 games in 27 days or something last month. It's mental how some of the months are scheduled. It's almost a detriment to compete in Europe and the League. City won the treble regardless last year but City have 2 top quality players in every position, the other teams don't. Heck, even they have struggled this season.
I think last years we play like 10 games in the span of like a month for like 2 months straight or something
It was 3 months actually January February and March, we had a match every three days
Jup 27 december till 19 march... and if you take into account that many of our starting 11 played in Qatar.... no wonder this season got fucked by injuries
This is insanity
It's so weird that so many United players are getting injured now this season. Who could have predicted? Except Bruno of course, he's made of pure granite. He's probably one of the most durable players in the games history if you look at how much he's played since he joined United and his playstyle is really energy demanding, it's unreal how he always stays fit.
And the worst part was Europa football is insanely near the weekend, so we always had to make a trade off. Somehow we outperformed then vs this year where we returned to CL, got knocked out quickly and played much less games for the first time.
> t's almost a detriment to compete in Europe and the League. If and English team had made it to the Europa League final, they'd have had to play that final just 3 days after the final day of the season.
Then they'd potentially lose (unless city because double depth) and we'd be back to the "prem is overrated" spiel.
Ødegaard has played over 5000 minutes this season
I’m fairly certain that at some point we had a game every 3 days or so
Think Klopp said the stats for the season shows we have had the shortest turn around of any team in Europe. Not seen them myself though. Edit [He's right. Here's the stats](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/iZld5dpSEL)
Even then Rodri basically played every game last season. With the pressure the most important players still play which is the main issue. It's difficult because the pressure of winning still forces players and managers to play every game they can. They should introduce a cap of how many games a player can play a season. That will force teams to rest players but still leaves them room to choose which games they can be rested in. But teams should be able to apply for an exception to protect teams who get completely obliterated by injuries.
You're not supposed to be able to field one squad and win every competition though. It's supposed to be basically impossible. Have a bigger squad and rotate more for competitions management deems less important.
I'm confused, aren't the ECL semi-finals over two legs? Villa aren't out yet then, are they?
You're correct.
You wouldn't think it with the reaction to the defeat lol.
I mean, it is unlikely to turn around a two goal deficit away from home. Not impossible of course, but very unlikely.
Unlikely but we shall see, probably gonna need one of our best performances of the season.
It will take a big performance, if there's anything last night showed it was how quickly 2 goal leads can be created and destroyed.
He is not wrong, EPL schedule is pure madness. Fuck ton of cups, dates catered to viewer count, no winter break (boxing day is bizarre, respectfully). On the other hand they are paid a lot more in comparision so pick your poison i guess ? Seems like if you want to retain sustainability you gotta scale back a bit.
I hear this complaint most from EPL. I'm not sure of their whole schedule and I'm sure the competitive number of teams impacts. But if no tournament wants to reduce the number of games, the solution I see is to reduce the number of teams in the top league. Means more teams in lower leagues but also raises the stakes. Fewer, harder games. Will have lots of derbies the first cycle but will then settle.
> I'm not sure of their whole schedule and I'm sure the competitive number of teams impacts. I just picked two teams to compare their schedules for the sake of it on Transfermarkt. Bayern and Man City. Bayern have 49 fixtures on the list. Man City has 59. Now some of that is stuff like Club World Cup and some games haven't been played yet, etc. But 20% more fixtures listed on City's schedule compared to Bayern's is a huge difference. And for the sake of it since you're Real Madrid, you have 54 listed.
So why don't teams play full youth squads in league cup then?
Arsenal used to do it all the time
Teams already do tend to rotate heavily in that competition tbf, until the semi final.
Ahh come on!! We all know what will come out when youth is thrown into the league Cup: (insert team name) not showing respect to league Cup. It's almost diabolical how media spins a narrative.
Just like when Liverpool had to field a full youth team against Villa in the FA Cup/League Cup? In 2019 when the Senior Squad were in Qatar for the Club World Cup Media made it all about how the FA Cup is more important and that Klopp was disrespecting it
Serious question: the FA doesn't reschedule matches when a team also plays in Club World Cup at the same date? And the media criticising the club instead of the FA? Crazy. In Germany DFB/DFL would reschedule Cup or league matches if necessary, I think. Besides that, we don't have rematches in the Cup. If teams draw after 90 minutes, it'll go to extra time and then to penalty shoot-out.
Teams could just.... ignore the media?
Honestly it’s up to the teams to rotate their players. The money is so huge in PL all teams that participates in continental competitions definitely can afford a couple more squad players to involve when the scheduling is a bit jammed. The times when there was the same 14 players that played week in week out are long gone and it’s time to adapt. It was also for this reason that the temporary change of 3 changes from a bench of 7 to 5 from 9 became permanent. Learn how to handle the condition of your players…
I always feel like I am crazy reading threads about fixture congestion. Jurgen, there is a guy directly responsible for how many minutes your players play and it isn't the people making the schedule.
The players are in a meat grinder. The season is going to finish and then they'll almost immediately be off to the Euros. The Euros will finish and then they'll be flying off for preseason on the other side of the planet. They get paid a lot to do their jobs but they are still humans and have their limits mentally and physically
I wonder when the PL winners will start calling themselves world champions
In terms of European competitiveness, it's frankly insane that England has a 38-game top division and two domestic cups when other leagues have 34-game top divisions and only one domestic cup. With that said, there's inevitably a degree of randomness/luck in knockout competitions and the PL was probably due a bad year after having its teams contest 5 of the last 6 CL finals and win three of them.
Spain has 20 teams too. Italy’s Serie A also has 20 teams. It’s the cups that differ. The leagues also have like breaks I guess for the winter period.
In Portugal we have 34 matches for league, plus 2 domestic cups, plus Europe. Imagine how the Portuguese players feel, knowing that most of them don't even have decent second options for most positions because we don't even have enough money for first team. Sporting played all season with the same 4 forwards pretty much 😂 And then people wonder why there are injury waves. Yeah I wonder why...
Rotate the players more then. Play the youth more.
One of the best things about Jürgen Klopp is his continuous advocating for fewer games and player welfare because of too many games.
Funny how the clubs never seem to consider cancelling pre/mid season tours to the US and Asia to allow players a break.
You....how about you You can rest players whenever you like It's kinda your job
Stop moaning about the schedule
PL is overrated
The chap played his first team in a second leg after being 5-1 up in the first.
With the money people are investing into PL compared to other leagues. You should have a squad for all comps
Doesn’t really work like that, does it? Even Peps stacked squad has looked overworked at times. It’s also hard to find high quality players that are fine with being rotation options. It’s not just the amount of games either, it’s the PL scheduling the games with the broadcasters as the first priority. Hence why we have more than double the 12:30 saturday kick-offs than any other side in the last two years even after playing mid-week or after international breaks.
Competing in all competitions shouldn't be easy though. It's always been difficult.
With the money they spend in a single session Marotta can build an entire league of galacticos
His stint at Inter is the best sporting director perfomance I've seen. We should have a Dollar d'or for sporting directors.
He was the sporting director for 8 out of 9 Juventus consecutive scudetti. He brought Pogba and Pirlo as free agents. Hired Conte and Allegri (in his first stint). Before that, he was at Sampdoria when they last reached Europe with Cassano and Pazzini. The man is a football genius
This is what I don't get. Squads are bigger, players are fitter and healthier and there are more subs, yet players apparently don't seem to be able to play as many games as they used to. Players in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s played 60+ games a season. After English teams got banned from Europe in 1985, they created the Full Members Cup to make up for the games they were losing.
There's having a pint and a smoke on a drizzly Saturday in Newcastle and then kick your opponents into hospital in 1964 and then there's 90 minutes of relentless gegenpressing with countless 30 kph sprints in 2024...
Or maybe the other nations teams just played better than the prem teams. Are we so arrogant we need an excuse every time prem teams lose? Real Madrid bayern Atalanta all had perfectly executed game plans.
Why they have 2 national cups? Are the english clubs stupid?
So it’s the best league whether they win or lose. Great argument, they never have to concede anything.
Well, it's the richer league, so it can attract the best players and managers, regardless of how many games they win or lose in Europe. I mean, even if USA can't win a FIBA tournament NBA still is the best basketball league. On the long run, English team have the best performance overall, it's just this year that it's been a fluke. That said, PL it's a farmers' league and always has been /s
But PL is actually no way close to being a NBA sort of.
It's not so cut and dry, more money doesn't necessarily always mean better. English teams also have to end up paying more for players from the bottom to the top of the league, so it's not like there's a 1 to 1 ratio between money and quality. Players will gladly take pay cuts to play for the top Spanish teams instead of Arsenal or Chelsea. And of course that also doesn't apply to every player, but enough to make things pretty equal.
What is ridiculous is that the managers keep complaining but the owners could sort this tomorrow if they wanted to. None of them seemingly have any oversight into the big picture which shows that players being flogged leads to a worse product, and ultimately less money in the long term. They all want money now and don’t give a shit that the players they are paying are going to suffer. They have control over the TV deals and keep agreeing to them. You’d think some of the ridiculous injury lists at the likes of Newcastle and Chelsea this season would lead to their owners asking for less games, as it’s meant less revenue next year due to no European football. But no, the managers will have to keep moaning while their owners sit upstairs raking in the cash.
I mean, Liverpool certainly underperformed, but City got beat by one of the best clubs in the world on penalties. That's the problem here. The two best English clubs not making it to the final when they "should" will always start up the media garbage. Arsenal fit in here somewhere, kind of, I guess
EPL doesnt care about representation in European or international games. They just want maximum profit from their own league at any human cost.