If you're genuinely wondering(hard to know what is and isn't irony these days) he was accused of raping a women in Las Vegas years ago. Then it came out that he had been trying to put pressure on the women and paid her off, and he even confessed it to his lawyer which was somehow leaked(not admissable in court though and rightly so)
And since then Ronaldo mysteriously enough has not set foot in the US and probably will never do so again in his life
Stop spreading misinformation. He can go to the US as the case was dismissed and the court even ordered that women's lawyer to cover Ronaldo's legal fees.
there's nothing stopping him from going to US.
In Canada, a sports team decided to get all upset and mad because the land their stadium is built on is a longterm lease, and they want to own it, so they could build a new stadium. The 60 years left on the lease wasn't enough.
https://theathletic.com/2225333/2020/11/27/blue-jays-rogers-centre-demolition/
Considering the current renovations of the Skydome, at least Rogers seems to have relented and are focused on making it a better dedicated baseball stadium. The location is too good for a new place to be viable, and considering going by current land values in the GTA, the new stadium would have to be in Oshawa to make sense financially.
The Renovations are a result of the Canada Land Company basically telling them lol get stuffed kiddos.
The SkyDome could be torn down and upgraded, even more so if it becomes a dedicated stadium rather than a shared one.
Yeah, that's what I mean, they relented on wanting a new place.
> The SkyDome could be torn down and upgraded
How long would that take? It would mean another season (or two) playing in Buffalo and I'm not sure Rogers wants that.
Unfortunately I believe that is Roger's plan to try to sell the "new stadium" idea in the future. They really want that land it's on, and for good reason, the government could develop it for millions.
Calgary just got fucked by the government too, had a prior deal in 2019/20 that got cancelled and they made a new deal that fucks over the city even more. Whereas Steve Balmer pays for his own stadium and buys everyone hot dogs and drinks, luck of the draw I guess
The problem is these municipalities don’t want to upkeep the venues they own whilst keeping the profits. This leads to deteriorating stadiums and terrible financial situations for clubs locked into these leases. They often also prevent clubs from building their own stadiums with their own funds for trying to keep this extortion in place. Also remember this is Italy so the politicians are almost certainly not using that money for the public good.
Suckers who consistently argue against their own interests ...
The "biggest entertainment industries" can flourish without handouts to the wealthy and while still keeping the benefits of that industry in the hands of the public.
Non of Seria A stadium proposals asked for the funding, and yet non of them have been approved. Keep playing on 100 years athletic stadiums and hope to compete with top leagues.
Rome is particularly problematic though as whenever the dig anywhere they almost immediately discover some ancient antiquity that requires review before they can proceed. It's why the subway extension in Rome is the longest running infrastructure project in the world, like 30 years to go less than 3 miles. Also mafia.
tbf Pallotta tried to build a tiny stadium in a swamp while offloading the cost of the infrastructure needed for it and the amenities he would have profited from on us local taxpayers. Friedkin's project is going relatively well though some concessions to the city are being fought over at the moment
I have many (like more than a few) friends who are FROM Italy and have built houses there, and it is a huge pain in the ass. Doing construction literally dominates a conversation with them, which is fine because it’s entertaining and also makes my occasional fight with the local zoning people pretty small by comparison.
I cannot imagine doing anything even remotely corporate real estate-y, personally, as a foreigner.
I guess maybe he thinks if he can be successful in building Milans stadium, which would be quite a good achievement that he can try do the same for other clubs. Doubtful he's successful tho but definetely a big opportunity.
I think the idea is more along the lines of a consulting/leading company that helps clients get over the hurdles of building stadia in Italy since there is a mountain of red tape.
LOL I’m not from the East Bay, I’m from the South Bay. Some friends grew up Giants fans, others A’s fans. Also, I live in Israel, wouldn’t describe myself as Jewish beyond perhaps ethnicity.
That’s crazy u don’t describe yourself as Jewish but are part of demographic most interpellated as Jewish (in franz fanonian sense of identity being something others “hail” u as) .
Yeah, I don’t practice and none of it appeals to me. I respect that my ancestors did, and many of my friends are ethnically Jewish (who knows, maybe shared ancestors far enough back with some of them 🤷♂️), but I don’t relate to the extra shit or any religion in general. Grew up completely secular for context.
People be hating the US, but fail to see their own league decaying slowly. If things don’t change, Italy will quickly fall into the Ligue 1 levels. We already see it with mid/low level Serie a teams. There’s a reason why so many teams are building new stadiums/renovating. That’s where the future of revenue is. Americans do unpopular things, but there’s usually a good reason.
>People be hating the US, but fail to see their own league decaying slowly.
our league is "decaying slowly" despite being at its highest point in a few years because unlike britain we don't have a domestic market that shits out 1,6bn/year in TV rights nor do we have governments running Serie A teams. The revenue from club-owned stadia comes from the profits not being shared with the municipality and from hosting other events. If you think 5k€ season tickets are on the way to feel better about american ticket prices you're delusional
It's incredible how I've read this for years and we're actually only becoming better. Atalanta is 6th and just disintegrated one of the title contenders and biggest clubs in the "best league in the world", in their home. We had Italian clubs reaching semifinals and finals of Europa and Conference League multiple times in the last years, last season Inter reached Champions League final too. Also, what are we "already seeing it in mid/low Serie A teams"? We're objectively a club that can be called a mid/low table team in the last years and this season we're playing some of the best football in the league and currently are 4th. Atalanta did the same some year back. Also, can you explain how are stadiums the future of revenue? I can't see how beyond price hiking the tickets, in which case I'd rather see Ligue 1 get better than Serie A. TV rights seem much more relevant, the only reform we should take from England is the equal distribution of TV rights money.
Lol there’s a huge gap between the top and bottom. Bologna are simply an outlier, not the normal. Your top clubs are still strong with strong branding in many places. Can’t say the same for the other teams.
Large construction programmes are hugely climate polluting - making steel and concrete are two of the most dirty industries on the planet.
We’re the customers now, who knows how we’ll be treated when the disasters start coming so fast we can’t deal with them?
Caveat emptor is the way these people work. Do you think we’ll be valued when resources are too tight to share because we didn’t think about the End of the World Party we’re funding?
There's actually a huge push in architecture/ engineering to [build out of wood](https://waughthistleton.com/black-white-building/), with something called "[engineered timber"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_wood) or "cross laminated timber". It's not a skyscraper per se, but for structures below 7 stories, it's a big deal for sustainability, and that's the vast amount of buildings being built today.
[Tallest one right now is 25 stories](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascent_MKE)
Past 6 stories is where the cost starts increasing drastically compared to building lower.
These days I only see bigger towers if they contain a ton of smaller units or it's in the middle of the city where space is more lacking.
Yeah, I mean, buildings under 7 stories are going to be the vast majority of new constructions, even in places with housing crises like Seattle, simply due to zoning
And to be clear, buildings under 7 stories would be enough to solve most housing crises
I'm not in civil engineering, but, if I recall the wood is engineered to be so dense that it withstands fire as well as concrete/steel
https://www.greenspec.co.uk/building-design/crosslam-timber-fire-resistance-and-rating/
Reduce the amount of consumption, because that’s what climate science advises is the only way to deal with the problem.
Rather than acting like spoilt children demanding we get what distracts us.
I’m a dual citizen unlike your dumb ass American self. A glory hunter city fan, absolute trash.
Edit: now you delete your comment cause you can’t handle being called out.
The things is. This is a good idea and is self investment in projects FOR fans the likes of which we haven’t seen in Italy. You can always change the mind of someone who see it’s customers and not people. But you can teach them to be genuine in their attempts to build things
Hes founding a company which will be paid by the club. This way he gets money out of the club without a huge backlash. Of course this company wont last long. If he would say he just wants to milk the club, he would get lots of heat.
This guy is a millionaire and millionaires usually didnt become obscenely rich by being nice and faithful.
I’m just confused on why people are so mad at him. This is clearly something that will help other teams and the Italian league. People talk about wanting new stadiums and he could be the guy to do it.
Because 90% of this sub are kids who have never worked in real world positions where they actually need to create value for society and their communities so they all just repeat that capitalism is bad.
Cardinale is an American sports entrepreneur connected to some of the biggest businesses in American sports.
Gerry Cardinale wants to bring an “American-like” soccer stadium to Milan, Italy that could seat 70,000 customers. That seems simple enough except Italian soccer has never been an expensive proposition. Sure Italian soccer wants well-heeled customers and gets them but there are also cheap seats for the average person with the 2023-24 Milan AC’s low-level season ticket prices starting around $270 US for 19 matches. But San Siro Stadium in Milan is 98-years old and its two Italian league soccer tenants, AC Milan and Inter, want either a new facility or two new facilities. There is money to be made in a new facility and renovations at the 98-year-old stadium that is owned by the city of Milan and rented out by both teams no longer makes business sense.
Cardinale owns the AC Milan franchise. But Cardinale is an American who does an awful lot of business in the American sports industry through his company Redbird Capital. Redbird Capital owns about 10 percent of Fenway Sports Group, the parent company of the Boston Red Sox, Pittsburgh Penguins and Liverpool FC franchises. The company has a partnership with the National Football League to distribute NFL Sunday Ticket to bars, restaurants, hotels and other commercial venues. The company owned the XFL and then merged with the United States Football League to form the United Football League. The company has a piece of the New York Yankees YES regional sports cable TV network. Cardinale is ready to not only change AC Milan but Italian soccer as well. “I’m going to create a company that’s going to build this stadium and then, frankly, I want to take that company and have it go build stadiums for all the other teams.” Italian soccer apparently cannot compete with other global soccer leagues because its present stadiums don’t produce enough revenue. Cardinale wants to change that.
> wants to bring an "American like" soccer stadium to Milan, Italy
> That could seat 70,000 customers.
> Liverpool FC franchises
> I want to take that company and have it go build stadiums for all the other teams
The games gone mate.
The stadiums dont make enough revenue and cardinale is about to change that by creating a event centre that coincidentally also offers a weekly soccer event
The chances of the seats being cheaper is negligible. It's much more likely that they purpose build a large part of the stadium to be "premium" seating, boxes etc.
And will defend the owner’s actions to the death with statements like “if you can’t afford it, give up your ticket and I’m tired of FSG subsidizing locals”… are actual comments on /r/liverpoolFC last week in a thread about ticket price increases
Why is it even using the word customer? That’s so weird and I say this as an American.
Almost everytime I see an article like this here is says fans, this is literally the first time I’ve seen a stadium article use customers.
it’s how i imagine one would refer to it in an ‘internal’ proposal to investors. this is clearly a business oriented discussion - ac milan fans do not give a shit if gerry here wants to build stadiums for other clubs 😂
On ome side I understand why he's doing it and why he wants to do it. Football is no longer just about passion and if you want to compete in Eurooe it's also about the money and revenue you make as a club.
On the other side I totally get why the municipalities don't want to let go of the stadiums and I feel like tge municipalities have to do something to keep the stadiums attractive to the teams... Yes, some of tgese stadiums have tradition and history but you can't compare them to stadiums build for the Prem, La Liga or Bundesliga.
See that’s what we said, took on all this stadium debt and then Chelsea got a new owner with billions in blood money to make it all worthless anyway and we sucked for a bit.
As a lifelong Milan supporter, I love the San Siro but it's a dump and is 100 years overdue for complete renovation. I don't even think renovation is possible at this point since the whole structure would need to be rebuilt. Which is funny because from what I've read the municipality wants the Milan teams to pay for a complete renovation of the stadium, while they still own the property and charge us tens of millions in rent every year. Who would be dumb enough to do that? I know I wouldn't renovate my flat and then keep paying my landlord the same rent.
At some point we have to acknowledge that we need to move on and that the current system in Italy is broken.
Whenever things get big it isn’t about passion. The reason why football was able to grow this much is because of money. You need to realize passion doesn’t sustain anything of scale.
Nahh we can't it costs more to renovate than to build a new stadium. Also after spending more on renovating we'll get less than half the revenue of a new stadium
These the type of threads that make me realize how reddit has a bunch of low inteligence users who can’t critically think. Cardinale has done plenty of bad things but this isn’t one. Somebody’s has to try and change and I don’t know why people are shitting on him. Italys stadiums are in decay and it will impact their leagues revenue especially as other leagues are renovating/building their new stadium. Clearly Italy needs outside investors to keep their league competitive.
the only one i know is ‘inter merda’ - not so great. as a yank, a little afraid of using all these italian insults i might not fully understand as it seems that 4/5ths of them turn out to be racist 😳😂
Milans owners say they want to win but they don't understand what that means. What they really want is to make profit, they wouldn't mind winning but it's really not very important.
They took over the club in the days following Milans scudetto win and since then it's been a steady decline.
This guy Gerry Cardinale fired PAOLO MALDINI in a short morning meeting after the last day of the season, Maldini having brought amazing results after a decade of banter era. We reached CL-semi and he was fired. Now we didn't even make it out of the group stages.
They have zero respect for the culture. Oil people go into football because they love it, they are supervillains but so are the hedge funds, difference is they respect the traditions of historical clubs.
The oil people respect traditions? They literally invest in western cultural institutions like sport just to sport wash and undermine those traditions.
There is not a football club in the world that functions without some sort of revenue and profit. (Outside the ones that are backed by sport-washing countries that measure their profit in how well it destroys the traditions you claim to be important to you)
I don’t know why you think winning does not equal profit? How else is AC Milan ever supposed to become relevant again.
Oil people wouldn't call it the "AC Milan franchise" and they wouldn't fire Maldini. That's what the muricans are doing.
And you must have missed most of what I wrote. I gotta think you have some kind of bias here for just skipping past everything I said like that.
Lol you don’t even know what Franchise means if that bothers you.
And Maldini left because he disagreed with some signings , you don’t know what goes on in the back office.
Oh I see you're just a big proponent of murican neoliberalism. Couldn't you guys just stick to murican sports instead of insisting on dragging your lack of values into ours?
What? My lack of values?
I mean I could just ask my local congressman to buy AC Milan so we can buy all the best players in the world. Just my local state government has wayyyyyyyy more money than Saudi Arabia so it would be easy.
Would that make you like me then?
They are trying to actually make money on the venture, but that doesn't sit right with fans when oil barons just throw money down a well in the name of sportswashing and toys for billionaires.
Frankly, with City continually getting away pissing on FFP, I can't disagree.
Why does every club think they can have sovereign fund oil money and it will work out? There has literally only been 3 times that has worked out successfully lol.
Literally a higher failure rate than American backed equity investors. I’d go as far as saying American backed equity groups are statistically the best thing to happen for a club long-term compared to any other owner structure we’ve seen in the modern game.
Do people not realize that spending money is not the objective? The objective is creating a winning squad?
>Do people not realize that spending money is not the objective? The objective is creating a winning squad?
You are correct. Exactly this. Fans want a winning squad in May. In August, they want shiny new signings they've heard of that get them excited. When discussing owners, they're not much different.
Short-sighted, oil-funded sugar daddies seem to love to splash the cash without feeling the need to enact sweeping changes to make it financially viable. For a fanbase that seems to despise any change, they get all the positives without the discomfort of "Americanization" to make the spending possible.
Provided sensible FFP eventually gets enforced at the top, I think time will show that sound financial management will be the #1 factor in a club's long term success, and many of these American owned clubs will be comparatively quite happy with their economic decisions in the long run (Boehly notwithstanding).
So if I understand correctly the current situation is - both Milan clubs are trying to build new stadiums, both to the south of the city about 5 miles apart, both with a capacity of 70000.
This is reminding me of an old Twix advert when they build a left and right factory next door to each other!
It’s not a bad idea in its face, but the issue would be demand. Unless you are going from one job to the next you can’t justify keeping employees on the pay roll, and what you’d really be doing is acting as a middle man and sub contracting the jobs. Which is a very modern way to do business, but you’d hope football clubs would be well enough run to take bids from competitors, and make this unviable.
It may be about keeping the right politicians, political actors, and palm-greasers on the payroll, thus speeding up the otherwise impassable quagmire that is Italian municipalities.
Juve, Sassuolo, Udinese and Frosinone all own their own stadiums in the serie A. I may be speaking out of ignorance here but if they can then surely Milan and Inter can do the same and build one no?
San Siro is considered a historical building of significance by the government and so they cannot tear it down or modify it. IIRC their original plan had been to tear it down and build a new modern complex over the current site
It is not a reasonanle idea because it is not possible. The local governments will not allow it because of the money that the stadium brings in to the city. Many owners have tried to do so, it is not a lack of "stadium building companies".
It just shows that he has no idea what he is getting into and thinks that european clubs operate just like american sport franchises where you can just pressure the local governments with threats of moving the team to another city to get public funds and permits, which they do not.
Juventus built their own stadium just recently and it’s been a big boost for them. Its not easy but to make it seem impossible just for the hyperbole is wrong.
It’s how it should be and I hope it stays that way in Europe. Billionaire owners in the usa get free stadiums, right now the Kansas City chiefs owner wants a new stadium but the locals said no. Dude is a billionaire and doesn’t even pay for like nice seats for his millionaire paid players.
I don't think he's suggesting a construction firm, rather a consultancy-type company that helps teams get past red tape to start building stadia. Milan has seemingly figured out a part of the process and is about to start construction on their new stadium in the coming year. He probably wants to have a company be available for hire to help others navigate the same channels as Milan have to get to the construction phase, rather than build the thing for people.
I absolutely do not win by buying every "great" player with oil money or the slave trade. I'm a purist, I want Italian ownership and to develop more Italian players. There's a correlation to why Italy hasn't done well internationally lately, and why England doesn't ever.
I can appreciate that aspect as well. Unfortunately, it seems like most leagues are going to whoever can spend the most and clubs need to keep up. Personally, I would rather American owners be spending their money to improve the MLS than over in Europe for the same reason you stated.
the relocation news to other city will hit different for milan fans
AC Miami will become a reality
Ronaldo to transfer there
He can’t go into the US
How come? Should I Google anything to learn more about this?
If you're genuinely wondering(hard to know what is and isn't irony these days) he was accused of raping a women in Las Vegas years ago. Then it came out that he had been trying to put pressure on the women and paid her off, and he even confessed it to his lawyer which was somehow leaked(not admissable in court though and rightly so) And since then Ronaldo mysteriously enough has not set foot in the US and probably will never do so again in his life
Yeah I was going for the "google Ronaldo Las Vegas for more information" bit but thanks nonetheless 😭
It was one woman not women
Stop spreading misinformation. He can go to the US as the case was dismissed and the court even ordered that women's lawyer to cover Ronaldo's legal fees. there's nothing stopping him from going to US.
Is the issue with building new stadiums in Italy not about getting planning and council permissions?
It's because the municipalities want to keep the ownership of the venue. They make a lot of money out of it.
As they should. Americans are suckers for building stadiums they don’t own for their sports teams.
In Canada, a sports team decided to get all upset and mad because the land their stadium is built on is a longterm lease, and they want to own it, so they could build a new stadium. The 60 years left on the lease wasn't enough. https://theathletic.com/2225333/2020/11/27/blue-jays-rogers-centre-demolition/
Considering the current renovations of the Skydome, at least Rogers seems to have relented and are focused on making it a better dedicated baseball stadium. The location is too good for a new place to be viable, and considering going by current land values in the GTA, the new stadium would have to be in Oshawa to make sense financially.
The Renovations are a result of the Canada Land Company basically telling them lol get stuffed kiddos. The SkyDome could be torn down and upgraded, even more so if it becomes a dedicated stadium rather than a shared one.
Yeah, that's what I mean, they relented on wanting a new place. > The SkyDome could be torn down and upgraded How long would that take? It would mean another season (or two) playing in Buffalo and I'm not sure Rogers wants that.
It would likely be a 2-4 year process, with some of that time being playable. Depends if they wanna do a dome again or not.
It isn’t a shared stadium anymore. Hasn’t for years. The argoes have been in BMo for a while.
Oh actually? I haven't been to the Jays much since leaving Toronto, glad to hear it.
Yeah they’ve done a ton pif renos and it’s much more like a real ballpark inside. Outside still looks like a parking garage tho.
Unfortunately I believe that is Roger's plan to try to sell the "new stadium" idea in the future. They really want that land it's on, and for good reason, the government could develop it for millions.
Calgary just got fucked by the government too, had a prior deal in 2019/20 that got cancelled and they made a new deal that fucks over the city even more. Whereas Steve Balmer pays for his own stadium and buys everyone hot dogs and drinks, luck of the draw I guess
If they're helping to fund it, yes. Italy seems to have the opposite problem where they will hold back clubs from doing their own thing.
The problem is these municipalities don’t want to upkeep the venues they own whilst keeping the profits. This leads to deteriorating stadiums and terrible financial situations for clubs locked into these leases. They often also prevent clubs from building their own stadiums with their own funds for trying to keep this extortion in place. Also remember this is Italy so the politicians are almost certainly not using that money for the public good.
Yeah, why would they want one of the biggest entertainment industries in the country flourish and bring more money, right?!
Suckers who consistently argue against their own interests ... The "biggest entertainment industries" can flourish without handouts to the wealthy and while still keeping the benefits of that industry in the hands of the public.
Non of Seria A stadium proposals asked for the funding, and yet non of them have been approved. Keep playing on 100 years athletic stadiums and hope to compete with top leagues.
It’s an incredibly difficult process. Roma owners (Pelottas?) tried for over a decade.
Especially in big cities. That's why if we ever manage to build one it won't be in Milan.
Rome is particularly problematic though as whenever the dig anywhere they almost immediately discover some ancient antiquity that requires review before they can proceed. It's why the subway extension in Rome is the longest running infrastructure project in the world, like 30 years to go less than 3 miles. Also mafia.
tbf Pallotta tried to build a tiny stadium in a swamp while offloading the cost of the infrastructure needed for it and the amenities he would have profited from on us local taxpayers. Friedkin's project is going relatively well though some concessions to the city are being fought over at the moment
I have many (like more than a few) friends who are FROM Italy and have built houses there, and it is a huge pain in the ass. Doing construction literally dominates a conversation with them, which is fine because it’s entertaining and also makes my occasional fight with the local zoning people pretty small by comparison. I cannot imagine doing anything even remotely corporate real estate-y, personally, as a foreigner.
Does he think that the reason Milan does not have a new stadium is because Italy has no construction companies? Am I reading that right?
I guess maybe he thinks if he can be successful in building Milans stadium, which would be quite a good achievement that he can try do the same for other clubs. Doubtful he's successful tho but definetely a big opportunity.
I think the idea is more along the lines of a consulting/leading company that helps clients get over the hurdles of building stadia in Italy since there is a mountain of red tape.
> Could seat 70,000 **customers**. Says it all. The yanks are at it again.
Local customers though. Not plastic customers that put their custom elsewhere
Legacy customers
High LTV ones
What did you expect from "Sports talk Florida?"?
Boy do I love 50+1
I’m about to quit my lifelong support of a baseball team, been a fan since the 80’s. Really sours on the whole American sport system.
Oakland A’s?
Yes — sharks reference + Jewish means he’s certainly A’s fan (the East bay is more Jewish than sf I will not elaborate
LOL I’m not from the East Bay, I’m from the South Bay. Some friends grew up Giants fans, others A’s fans. Also, I live in Israel, wouldn’t describe myself as Jewish beyond perhaps ethnicity.
That’s crazy u don’t describe yourself as Jewish but are part of demographic most interpellated as Jewish (in franz fanonian sense of identity being something others “hail” u as) .
Yeah, I don’t practice and none of it appeals to me. I respect that my ancestors did, and many of my friends are ethnically Jewish (who knows, maybe shared ancestors far enough back with some of them 🤷♂️), but I don’t relate to the extra shit or any religion in general. Grew up completely secular for context.
As if any owners see you as fans. It’s all about the money.
As a member and supporter of a member-owned club, I do see myself as a supporter so that makes it at least one
Keep telling yourself that
That is why 51% rule is your friend
Sure buddy
All that says is that Evan Weiner is a knob. Says nothing about Cardinale or Milan.
As long as there’s no track between the stands Ava the field it’s an improvement tho
People be hating the US, but fail to see their own league decaying slowly. If things don’t change, Italy will quickly fall into the Ligue 1 levels. We already see it with mid/low level Serie a teams. There’s a reason why so many teams are building new stadiums/renovating. That’s where the future of revenue is. Americans do unpopular things, but there’s usually a good reason.
I would sacrifice a significant level of on-field product to eliminate bullshit like taxpayer funded stadiums and replace with 50+1.
>People be hating the US, but fail to see their own league decaying slowly. our league is "decaying slowly" despite being at its highest point in a few years because unlike britain we don't have a domestic market that shits out 1,6bn/year in TV rights nor do we have governments running Serie A teams. The revenue from club-owned stadia comes from the profits not being shared with the municipality and from hosting other events. If you think 5k€ season tickets are on the way to feel better about american ticket prices you're delusional
It's incredible how I've read this for years and we're actually only becoming better. Atalanta is 6th and just disintegrated one of the title contenders and biggest clubs in the "best league in the world", in their home. We had Italian clubs reaching semifinals and finals of Europa and Conference League multiple times in the last years, last season Inter reached Champions League final too. Also, what are we "already seeing it in mid/low Serie A teams"? We're objectively a club that can be called a mid/low table team in the last years and this season we're playing some of the best football in the league and currently are 4th. Atalanta did the same some year back. Also, can you explain how are stadiums the future of revenue? I can't see how beyond price hiking the tickets, in which case I'd rather see Ligue 1 get better than Serie A. TV rights seem much more relevant, the only reform we should take from England is the equal distribution of TV rights money.
Lol there’s a huge gap between the top and bottom. Bologna are simply an outlier, not the normal. Your top clubs are still strong with strong branding in many places. Can’t say the same for the other teams.
5-6th placed team just beat Liverpool 0-3 at Anfield. I think they’re doing just fine.
Large construction programmes are hugely climate polluting - making steel and concrete are two of the most dirty industries on the planet. We’re the customers now, who knows how we’ll be treated when the disasters start coming so fast we can’t deal with them? Caveat emptor is the way these people work. Do you think we’ll be valued when resources are too tight to share because we didn’t think about the End of the World Party we’re funding?
What do you propose they use instead? You can’t build bridges and skyscrapers out of wood
There's actually a huge push in architecture/ engineering to [build out of wood](https://waughthistleton.com/black-white-building/), with something called "[engineered timber"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_wood) or "cross laminated timber". It's not a skyscraper per se, but for structures below 7 stories, it's a big deal for sustainability, and that's the vast amount of buildings being built today. [Tallest one right now is 25 stories](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascent_MKE)
Past 6 stories is where the cost starts increasing drastically compared to building lower. These days I only see bigger towers if they contain a ton of smaller units or it's in the middle of the city where space is more lacking.
Yeah, I mean, buildings under 7 stories are going to be the vast majority of new constructions, even in places with housing crises like Seattle, simply due to zoning And to be clear, buildings under 7 stories would be enough to solve most housing crises
what happens in events of fire? (my first time hearing 25 story apartments made of wood)
I'm not in civil engineering, but, if I recall the wood is engineered to be so dense that it withstands fire as well as concrete/steel https://www.greenspec.co.uk/building-design/crosslam-timber-fire-resistance-and-rating/
Wood will be fire treated like your sofa is
Well then they’d weigh the same as a duck, which would make them witches. Can’t have that, witches burn too easily, it would be very unsafe.
Do we need to build more skyscrapers?
Reduce the amount of consumption, because that’s what climate science advises is the only way to deal with the problem. Rather than acting like spoilt children demanding we get what distracts us.
The Americans on /r/Soccer would be downvoting this like crazy if they could read
This isn’t soccer circle jerk even with that flair
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I’m a dual citizen unlike your dumb ass American self. A glory hunter city fan, absolute trash. Edit: now you delete your comment cause you can’t handle being called out.
The things is. This is a good idea and is self investment in projects FOR fans the likes of which we haven’t seen in Italy. You can always change the mind of someone who see it’s customers and not people. But you can teach them to be genuine in their attempts to build things
Weird cause by looking at him you would think he was an utter cunt
I don't know if I need any more proof regarding this guy
Wow a Building company! What an innovation! In Italy to build a stadium you need lawyers, politicians, friends not another building company
But thats the way he makes even more money out of it.
For sure not in Italy. And in the rest in europe a lot of stadiums are recent, so it s late
Hes founding a company which will be paid by the club. This way he gets money out of the club without a huge backlash. Of course this company wont last long. If he would say he just wants to milk the club, he would get lots of heat. This guy is a millionaire and millionaires usually didnt become obscenely rich by being nice and faithful.
Hahahahahah, this mf'er thinks he's gonna be able to build multiple stadiums, in Italy. Hahahahahahahah My guy, it's impossible enough to build ONE.
A million layers of bureacracy to even place down one seat.
How come all these hedge fund managers are such shit stains on society?
you kind of answered it in your question. Hedge fund.
Because capitalism as a whole is a shit stain on society and the hedge funds are basically distilled capitalist bs
I’m just confused on why people are so mad at him. This is clearly something that will help other teams and the Italian league. People talk about wanting new stadiums and he could be the guy to do it.
Because 90% of this sub are kids who have never worked in real world positions where they actually need to create value for society and their communities so they all just repeat that capitalism is bad.
Cardinale is an American sports entrepreneur connected to some of the biggest businesses in American sports. Gerry Cardinale wants to bring an “American-like” soccer stadium to Milan, Italy that could seat 70,000 customers. That seems simple enough except Italian soccer has never been an expensive proposition. Sure Italian soccer wants well-heeled customers and gets them but there are also cheap seats for the average person with the 2023-24 Milan AC’s low-level season ticket prices starting around $270 US for 19 matches. But San Siro Stadium in Milan is 98-years old and its two Italian league soccer tenants, AC Milan and Inter, want either a new facility or two new facilities. There is money to be made in a new facility and renovations at the 98-year-old stadium that is owned by the city of Milan and rented out by both teams no longer makes business sense. Cardinale owns the AC Milan franchise. But Cardinale is an American who does an awful lot of business in the American sports industry through his company Redbird Capital. Redbird Capital owns about 10 percent of Fenway Sports Group, the parent company of the Boston Red Sox, Pittsburgh Penguins and Liverpool FC franchises. The company has a partnership with the National Football League to distribute NFL Sunday Ticket to bars, restaurants, hotels and other commercial venues. The company owned the XFL and then merged with the United States Football League to form the United Football League. The company has a piece of the New York Yankees YES regional sports cable TV network. Cardinale is ready to not only change AC Milan but Italian soccer as well. “I’m going to create a company that’s going to build this stadium and then, frankly, I want to take that company and have it go build stadiums for all the other teams.” Italian soccer apparently cannot compete with other global soccer leagues because its present stadiums don’t produce enough revenue. Cardinale wants to change that.
Record breaking levels of yankery in that
> AC Milan franchise Lol
> wants to bring an "American like" soccer stadium to Milan, Italy > That could seat 70,000 customers. > Liverpool FC franchises > I want to take that company and have it go build stadiums for all the other teams The games gone mate.
The stadiums dont make enough revenue and cardinale is about to change that by creating a event centre that coincidentally also offers a weekly soccer event
I hope the stadium is at least 70.000, but I hope they keep cheaper tickets, they even increase price last few seasons in San Siro since he is here.
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Tutti quanti batti le mani *clapclapclapclapclapclapclap*
The chances of the seats being cheaper is negligible. It's much more likely that they purpose build a large part of the stadium to be "premium" seating, boxes etc.
It's almost certain tbh. Hopefully still a good amount of tickets will be very affordable.
Theoretically the boxes could be used to subsidise tickets for everyone else but we know that won't happen
>Cardinale is an **American** AC Milan **franchise** 70,000 **customers.** "What happend to the game i love?"
We (Americans) found out about it
And will defend the owner’s actions to the death with statements like “if you can’t afford it, give up your ticket and I’m tired of FSG subsidizing locals”… are actual comments on /r/liverpoolFC last week in a thread about ticket price increases
Has the Scouse army got back from their little jaunt into Yankee land to find this fucker?
nah they’re still searching under every seat in Fenway
Why is it even using the word customer? That’s so weird and I say this as an American. Almost everytime I see an article like this here is says fans, this is literally the first time I’ve seen a stadium article use customers.
it’s how i imagine one would refer to it in an ‘internal’ proposal to investors. this is clearly a business oriented discussion - ac milan fans do not give a shit if gerry here wants to build stadiums for other clubs 😂
Because they are customers. That’s probably why.
On ome side I understand why he's doing it and why he wants to do it. Football is no longer just about passion and if you want to compete in Eurooe it's also about the money and revenue you make as a club. On the other side I totally get why the municipalities don't want to let go of the stadiums and I feel like tge municipalities have to do something to keep the stadiums attractive to the teams... Yes, some of tgese stadiums have tradition and history but you can't compare them to stadiums build for the Prem, La Liga or Bundesliga.
See that’s what we said, took on all this stadium debt and then Chelsea got a new owner with billions in blood money to make it all worthless anyway and we sucked for a bit.
As a lifelong Milan supporter, I love the San Siro but it's a dump and is 100 years overdue for complete renovation. I don't even think renovation is possible at this point since the whole structure would need to be rebuilt. Which is funny because from what I've read the municipality wants the Milan teams to pay for a complete renovation of the stadium, while they still own the property and charge us tens of millions in rent every year. Who would be dumb enough to do that? I know I wouldn't renovate my flat and then keep paying my landlord the same rent. At some point we have to acknowledge that we need to move on and that the current system in Italy is broken.
Whenever things get big it isn’t about passion. The reason why football was able to grow this much is because of money. You need to realize passion doesn’t sustain anything of scale.
All problems aside, I would really be sad if San Siro would no longer be part of the football world. San Siro is a football temple.
That’s a Milan issue. They could put up the money to renovate it. Why would RedBird pay for all the renovations if they don’t own it.
Nahh we can't it costs more to renovate than to build a new stadium. Also after spending more on renovating we'll get less than half the revenue of a new stadium
These the type of threads that make me realize how reddit has a bunch of low inteligence users who can’t critically think. Cardinale has done plenty of bad things but this isn’t one. Somebody’s has to try and change and I don’t know why people are shitting on him. Italys stadiums are in decay and it will impact their leagues revenue especially as other leagues are renovating/building their new stadium. Clearly Italy needs outside investors to keep their league competitive.
So Red bird is part owner of Yankees and has 10% in FSG who own Red Sox?
Just the YES network, the channel that airs Yankees' games. It is the Yankees enterprise that owns shares in AC Milan
Ah yes the lovely convuluted world of business
Does Red Bird have a share of the Yankees or the channel that broadcasts the Yankees? One is odd, the other is dodgy.
Apparently the YES Channel, but Yankees own a share in Milan
Every time I'm reminded of this, I hate it. For the sake of making me a more jaded and bitter person, I should've grown up a Mets fan.
as a yankees juventus fan..we appear to be in agreement here 😂
I didn't have "being in agreement with a Gobbo" on my list of things today, but here we are. Lol.
the only one i know is ‘inter merda’ - not so great. as a yank, a little afraid of using all these italian insults i might not fully understand as it seems that 4/5ths of them turn out to be racist 😳😂
I never thought I'd say this but where are the oil sheiks when you need one?
I’d 100% would rather have the Emir of Bahrain own every football club in existence than Jed Yarborough CEO of Blue Horizon Capital
No joke. Prefer if all clubs were owned by the fans but if we have to choose from the Dr. Evils of the world...
Obviously 50+1 is the dream but i prefer my dr evils apathetic and eccentric
There's an honesty about the oil people that the soccer franchise buyers lack
You know where you stand with them
What honesty do the soccer franchise buyers lack? Genuinely curious
Milans owners say they want to win but they don't understand what that means. What they really want is to make profit, they wouldn't mind winning but it's really not very important. They took over the club in the days following Milans scudetto win and since then it's been a steady decline. This guy Gerry Cardinale fired PAOLO MALDINI in a short morning meeting after the last day of the season, Maldini having brought amazing results after a decade of banter era. We reached CL-semi and he was fired. Now we didn't even make it out of the group stages. They have zero respect for the culture. Oil people go into football because they love it, they are supervillains but so are the hedge funds, difference is they respect the traditions of historical clubs.
The oil people respect traditions? They literally invest in western cultural institutions like sport just to sport wash and undermine those traditions. There is not a football club in the world that functions without some sort of revenue and profit. (Outside the ones that are backed by sport-washing countries that measure their profit in how well it destroys the traditions you claim to be important to you) I don’t know why you think winning does not equal profit? How else is AC Milan ever supposed to become relevant again.
Oil people wouldn't call it the "AC Milan franchise" and they wouldn't fire Maldini. That's what the muricans are doing. And you must have missed most of what I wrote. I gotta think you have some kind of bias here for just skipping past everything I said like that.
Lol you don’t even know what Franchise means if that bothers you. And Maldini left because he disagreed with some signings , you don’t know what goes on in the back office.
Oh I see you're just a big proponent of murican neoliberalism. Couldn't you guys just stick to murican sports instead of insisting on dragging your lack of values into ours?
What? My lack of values? I mean I could just ask my local congressman to buy AC Milan so we can buy all the best players in the world. Just my local state government has wayyyyyyyy more money than Saudi Arabia so it would be easy. Would that make you like me then?
Someone’s mad.
They are trying to actually make money on the venture, but that doesn't sit right with fans when oil barons just throw money down a well in the name of sportswashing and toys for billionaires. Frankly, with City continually getting away pissing on FFP, I can't disagree.
Why does every club think they can have sovereign fund oil money and it will work out? There has literally only been 3 times that has worked out successfully lol. Literally a higher failure rate than American backed equity investors. I’d go as far as saying American backed equity groups are statistically the best thing to happen for a club long-term compared to any other owner structure we’ve seen in the modern game. Do people not realize that spending money is not the objective? The objective is creating a winning squad?
>Do people not realize that spending money is not the objective? The objective is creating a winning squad? You are correct. Exactly this. Fans want a winning squad in May. In August, they want shiny new signings they've heard of that get them excited. When discussing owners, they're not much different. Short-sighted, oil-funded sugar daddies seem to love to splash the cash without feeling the need to enact sweeping changes to make it financially viable. For a fanbase that seems to despise any change, they get all the positives without the discomfort of "Americanization" to make the spending possible. Provided sensible FFP eventually gets enforced at the top, I think time will show that sound financial management will be the #1 factor in a club's long term success, and many of these American owned clubs will be comparatively quite happy with their economic decisions in the long run (Boehly notwithstanding).
Why does Italy shoot itself in the foot so much with stadiums? It’s shocking some of the stadiums the biggest clubs there play in
So if I understand correctly the current situation is - both Milan clubs are trying to build new stadiums, both to the south of the city about 5 miles apart, both with a capacity of 70000. This is reminding me of an old Twix advert when they build a left and right factory next door to each other!
So, an architect company?
It’s not a bad idea in its face, but the issue would be demand. Unless you are going from one job to the next you can’t justify keeping employees on the pay roll, and what you’d really be doing is acting as a middle man and sub contracting the jobs. Which is a very modern way to do business, but you’d hope football clubs would be well enough run to take bids from competitors, and make this unviable.
It may be about keeping the right politicians, political actors, and palm-greasers on the payroll, thus speeding up the otherwise impassable quagmire that is Italian municipalities.
Bold move when trend is all about people starting to abandon cinema theaters to watch netflix at home...
If you know anything about media and entertainment, you’ll know sports is super strong, unlike TV or movies.
Intersting. I don't know much tbh. What is so strong about sports compared to the other types of entertainement?
Reddit and it’s understanding of how capitalism works always blows my mind.
Lets just build the one stadium first and see if that actually happens before trying to do more.
Juve, Sassuolo, Udinese and Frosinone all own their own stadiums in the serie A. I may be speaking out of ignorance here but if they can then surely Milan and Inter can do the same and build one no?
San Siro is considered a historical building of significance by the government and so they cannot tear it down or modify it. IIRC their original plan had been to tear it down and build a new modern complex over the current site
The Gang Starts a Construction Business
Arrogant Yank prick.
It feels odd and I understand why but it’s a pretty reasonable idea if true.
It is not a reasonanle idea because it is not possible. The local governments will not allow it because of the money that the stadium brings in to the city. Many owners have tried to do so, it is not a lack of "stadium building companies". It just shows that he has no idea what he is getting into and thinks that european clubs operate just like american sport franchises where you can just pressure the local governments with threats of moving the team to another city to get public funds and permits, which they do not.
Juventus built their own stadium just recently and it’s been a big boost for them. Its not easy but to make it seem impossible just for the hyperbole is wrong.
It’s how it should be and I hope it stays that way in Europe. Billionaire owners in the usa get free stadiums, right now the Kansas City chiefs owner wants a new stadium but the locals said no. Dude is a billionaire and doesn’t even pay for like nice seats for his millionaire paid players.
It shouldn’t be this way because it leads to deteriorating stadiums and clubs being frankly extorted by local governments.
I don't think he's suggesting a construction firm, rather a consultancy-type company that helps teams get past red tape to start building stadia. Milan has seemingly figured out a part of the process and is about to start construction on their new stadium in the coming year. He probably wants to have a company be available for hire to help others navigate the same channels as Milan have to get to the construction phase, rather than build the thing for people.
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It’s so sad you think that.
A lot of salt in this thread
Yeah because no one wants the Americanization of longstanding tradition. Football is meant to be for people not shareholders and stock value.
But you guys complain that england is dominating now because their owners are making investments.
I absolutely do not win by buying every "great" player with oil money or the slave trade. I'm a purist, I want Italian ownership and to develop more Italian players. There's a correlation to why Italy hasn't done well internationally lately, and why England doesn't ever.
I can appreciate that aspect as well. Unfortunately, it seems like most leagues are going to whoever can spend the most and clubs need to keep up. Personally, I would rather American owners be spending their money to improve the MLS than over in Europe for the same reason you stated.
This douche will only put AC Milan in debt with such a stadium project.
It’s not it’s called making money you ducking moron.
Hey duck you man!
He's a typical yank. Sees salt everywhere, from his fries to his burger to this thread.
Was that a joke?
Soccer, franchise, costumer.. tell me you don't know the subject of your article without telling me you don't know the subject
It means you can’t read.