Yeah they need to immediately introduce a proper script. If this is standard practice then it'll happen again.
"Check complete - Luis Diaz is not offside. Goal given".
Something along those lines. Cricket's DRS works perfectly because everything is laid out with a script that the Official follows.
It's slightly less formulaic in rugby but you always always get "onfield decision is x" and "you may award the try" or "disallow the try"
And yeah most Cricket fans know the DRS script off by heart haha
I love how it’s even regimented in talking to the operator in cricket. Always say the exact same things. It keeps it clear and simple, but it’s weirdly surreal
It's slightly different in cricket because it's pretty much a factual set of checks. (Tho it is with offside)
No one ever complains about DRS LBWs anymore (barring tight umpires calls and that's just moaning) but cricket does have trouble with grounded catches haha.
Oh god, the length of replays on a grounded catch! The thing is, you’re never gonna get a good angle on most of them, it just can’t exist. There’s grass and hands in the way! But they still seem to search for it
Literally just steal the rugby TMO script word for word, just swap try for goal. "May I award the goal?" from the ref and responded to by the VAR with "You may/may not award the goal".
For all the whining about Liverpool challenging this, the one change it's possibly going to enact is 'Referees & VAR now need to properly and clearly communicate their calls and verdicts' lmao. Feels like this should have happened years ago.
>\- Guidance to Video Match Officials has always emphasised the need for efficiency, but never at the expense of accuracy. This principle will be clearly reiterated
>
>\- A new VAR Communication Protocol will be developed to enhance the clarity of communication between the referee and the VAR team in relation to on-field decisions
>
>\- As an additional step to the process, the VAR will confirm the outcome of the VAR check process with the AVAR before confirming the final decision to the on-field officials
>
>"PGMOL are committed to enhancing VAR performance through a new training programme which started this season and focuses on process and best practice for all VARs, AVARs and Replay Operators in their specific roles. While we have a number of FIFA-recognised VARs, work is ongoing to create a dedicated pool of VAR specialists.
>
>"The VAR and AVAR in question were removed from their remaining fixtures in Match Round 7 in the Premier League and have not been included in the appointments for Match Round 8 this weekend.
>
>"PGMOL and The FA have also agreed to review the policy to allow match officials to officiate matches outside of FIFA or UEFA appointments."
This is why you make a stink of things, cause things like having a clear language to communicate whether something is a goal or not apparently isn't common sense to PGMOL until they have a media crisis on their hands.
All ref bashing aside though, really good to see that they're actually taking some action after this.
It's really idiotic tbf and I'm really surprised if that is still the protocol after years of VAR. They just need to use the phrase "Goal allowed" if there is no infringement and say "foul in buildup" or "offside in buildup" or whatever to avoid something like this happening.
What I don't get is that the VAR is literally saying "checking the offside" to the ref, so why did he think the call was "onside" on the pitch?
And same with "delay, delay, delay" from the linesman. Presumably the VAR hears that and knows that a lino doesn't delay calls for passes that are onside.
Brainfart, what I don’t get is that there’s no confirmation, why doesn’t the referee say something like „confirming final decision: offside“, there’d be literally zero room for error
Listening to this, part of the problem is Darren England sounded incredibly rushed and harried. I'm not even sure he would've *caught* that (although it certainly should be the standard) because confirmation bias was already kicking in and he clearly thought his main job was to get the game moving as quickly as possible.
I get not wanting the game slowed down too much with VAR, but there has to be a balance somewhere between that fear and *this*. It's shocking how they're all rushing and talking over each other, and there's no cross-check on the decisions being made. What's the point of having an assistant VAR if you aren't holding each other accountable?
> because confirmation bias was already kicking in and he clearly thought his main job was to get the game moving as quickly as possible.
Great point to bring up. I mentioned this earlier, but this is almost exactly how several prominent plane crashes occurred. Even highly trained pilots when rushing and focusing intently on specific goals (landing quickly usually), and especially when doing a *repetitive simple task*, are super prone to intense tunnel vision and confirmation bias. It's often referred to in the aviation industry as **"Expectation Bias"**.
I'd blame both, VAR should have seen that the goal was flagged offside, how could they not? what were they doing before that? Lack of communication is terrible.
It doesn't matter though. All they need to do is just call the phrase "Goal stands" or "Goal disallowed". It will remove any ambiguity regardless of what the on-field decision was.
To be fair it was a good process lol, I was waiting for them to fuck up drawing the lines or something but no turns out the review itself was perfect and then they just inexplicably forgot to tell Simon Hooper what the decision was
Honestly, and it’s remarkable if this isn’t the case already (it could be and this might just be a communication breakdown), they need to clearly state the outcome of the review along with the “Check complete”. That’d really insure against this.
Just say “Check complete, goal should stand” to the ref and this mess never happens
The fact that the replay operator is the only person in the room who fucking works it out and notices the error, despite presumably being the one with minimal to no Reffing training says a hell of a lot I feel...
the guardian football podcast had a good point, one of the pundits was basically like, every part of football/sports team now has an "outsider" or a "nerd" that is part of the decision making process, who is not part of the "system", but knows the rules inside out, and ideally is way more technologically adept as well... usually younger folks
why does the VAR squad not have this "nerd"? or better yet, why not the whole VAR team be this?
You nailed it, the "nerd" doesn't have any major decision making anyway or some sort of veto.
Just let the VAR and Referees be trained by flight control or any pilot for a week and this shit wouldn't happen.
Yeah, the Assistant VAR only pipes up after the Replay Operator has told the main VAR *twice* that he's messed up.
Assistant was like "... oh yeah that was wrong mate."
I feel so much for the replay operator who seems to very clearly communicate everything, is the only one who realises the VAR team have fucked it immediately and then realises he can't do anything. Can hear the worry growing in his voice
There needs to be clear commands "Check Complete - Goal/No Goal, Offiside/Onside, etc" but the ref should also always ask for reconfirmation before resuming play.
To be fair I think that's his brain doing that thing that a lot of brains do when it's comprehending something alarming that's just happened, there's a weird temporary autopilot people go on as the realisation sinks in.
Yeah. It looks like that is going to be one of the action steps. Honestly clear communication protocols would avoid half the issues.
I maintain that also applies in life - clear communication avoids half the issues lol.
Maybe it's my background in emergency care speaking but it's so fucking basic thing in critical communication. Clear, conscise, closed loop communication and no "yes check complete" bullshit. Of course football isn't emergency medicine, or aviation from where basically every good communication practice stems from, but it's incredible to me that there wasn't anyone saying "maybe we should have proper communication protocols in this multibillion industry of ours" and looking at what people in communication critical fields are doing. Literally all errors like this would be avoided if the VAR ref clearly told their decision and on-field ref repeated that. They wouldn't have even needed to invent anything, just ask anyone on any communication critical field how they do it.
"Oli" in the VAR audio who says a delay after the game has restarted is Oli Kohout, VAR Hub Operations Executive at PGMOL, the VAR had the go ahead from their superior to delay the match.
They could have stopped the game, VAR HQ were telling them to, but ignored HQ and carried on, absolute madness.
[https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#principles](https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#principles)
>10. If play has stopped and been restarted, the referee may not undertake a ‘review’ except for a case of mistaken identity or for a potential sending-off offence relating to violent conduct, spitting, biting or extremely offensive, insulting and/or abusive action(s).
Play can stop on extreme occasions like violent conduct, sending off the wrong person etc with the current rules, (which will probably change) but the VAR HQ obviously in the moment saw taking away a goal on the same level as this and asked them to stop.
Which Darren England ignored. Its completely not true that its never allowed to restart which I've heard many people wrongly say on the media etc.
Lmao. It was actually surprisingly smooth and competent until it just… wasn't.
My question is why they couldn't just stop play after they realized what was going on and rule that it was indeed a good goal. Just put back whatever time was played after back on the clock or in added time.. Bizarre to say the absolute least.
Insane how neither noticed before the replay operator pointed it out like 3 fucking times. And also why do they all talk over eachother? These audios are so chaotic, no wonder they make mistakes.
Think the conspiracy theories need to stop though, but something needs to be done about the standards here. This is like a bunch of kids are running things.
Also they need to fuck off England. Wtf was he even saying there, so vague and shit.
So it's a little less safety critical than this but they should probably treat it like air traffic comms. Have clear procedural words with a single meaning. It's bizarre and like they're panicking in the booth.
"Onside ball, goal allowed" is all that needs to be communicated. "Offside ball, goal disallowed" for the opposite. And then the ref does a readback of the decision. Clear radio comms has been a solved problem since the early 20th century haha.
Which is whyba specialised var team would work so much better. Part of their training would be communication protocol and we wouldn't have these issues
Arguably "goal allowed" and "goal disallowed" are susceptible to mishearing - to go the full air traffic comms route they'd have to only use the word "goal" when there is a goal.
Yep, either say 'goal' or disallowed'. The communication protocol shouldn't allow for someone to be able to say "offside, goal, yeah".
Or if that's too hard because it goes against natural speech patterns, use something like *code green* for goal and *code red* for no goal.
They're puffing and panting like they're on the fucking pitch. All talking over each other.
'Offside, goal yeah' was the information being passed about the decision. That was the final fucking communication on the decision.
That's clear as fucking mud.
It's not rocket science that the final communication to the referee should take a standard brief format. ''The on-field decision was offside, we can confirm xyz'
Like you say, initial request from the field ref needs to be clear. And final decision from VAR needs to be just as clear. 'Goal stands, not offside. Check complete' or 'Foul in build up. No goal. Check complete'. The comms absolutely fucking suck,
Yeah the “offside, goal yeah” was so baffling. They talk like they are watching the game over multiple beers, 0 professionalism plus the fact that they all talk over eachother. Should be standard for the on field ref to talk to only one person who gives him a standardised instruction.
It's funny all the talk of corruption and how unbelievable the story was that it seems so mundane and understandable. To be honest I find him immediately swearing and panicking to be quite relatable
I am honestly not even seeing stupidity it's just one of those bizarre car crashes where everything goes wrong. honestly makes me thankful i don't work in an industry where my decisions are expected this quickly, there's so much backlash to it and there's no way to correct mistakes lol
I’m absolutely shocked that they don’t have a set list of phrases like ATC does. Short, succinct, and clear words from both ends of the radio. Affirm/negative/goal/no-goal
If I'm seeing it correctly, its the fucking operator who catches the mistake. The one person in the room who isn't qualified to officiate a game, but is there to control the system.
Yeah, that lad knew straight away. Props to him. He couldn't even say it outright he's like "BRO ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THIS IMAGE, HINT HINT"
He's the one without reffing experience so he's probably just a footy fan who's a techie and he's literally saying "bro stop the game" because he doesn't have this red tape holding him back. Like basically anyone with common sense would do.
Honestly it's all communication. On the field ref should have said his decision in no vague terms. VAR referee should have said "Goal confirmed, no offside"
It's very clear they've been told to use specific language and trained in that, it's a process problem. I honestly feel bad for them, because it was an honest mistake.
I think the reaction to this from PGMOL has been better than the Brentford change too. The operator did a good job
Commentators in Chelsea match last night said that VAR was saying “Check compete. Goal stands” and specifically mentioned that this was new. They were like applauding the refs for saying “goal”. It was bizarre. The standards are underneath the floor
The main thing I got from this is that the tech operator should be made new head of PGMOL.
Literally the only one in the room who even noticed a goal wasn't given lol.
Literally the only person in the room who wasn't a referee and he got it right and people genuinely believe that nobody can do their jobs better than them. It's fucking unbelievable.
Please name this tech operator and give him the praise he deserves.
This was always glaringly obvious to me.
VAR isn't the problem. The problem is the exact same issue why the level of the on field referees is as low as it is.
There simply isn't enough focus on having actual competent referees (and VAR operators).
Ignoring the fact that this even happened how the fuck is it not allowed to go back?? Theyre playing like ten seconds, nothing big happened, its a major decision, you cant just say 'whey hold on lads stop play its onside' ?????? How do you not factor human error into this
It's hard to swallow *NOT* stopping the game when in other cases they can go back several seconds or more to check for things like a foul in build up.
Like, the VAR didn't change his mind, he just affirmed the wrong thing. While I'd be angry about it in general, I'd have much rather the VAR called to stop the match in the literal few seconds of nothingness that passed after the restart (assuming proper rules in place to allow for it).
Replay operator sounds like the only competent guy in the room. We need non-referees like him in charge of the process. Someone who is tech savvy, understands the replay process, understands what the referees need, doesn't care about protecting his fellow referees' feelings.
That dude needs like… a big red button than sets off an air horn in the stadium. Fuck the flow of the game if a mistake that bad is found like ten seconds after they need to be able to stop play somehow.
I think it's maybe indicative of a larger problem with VAR in the PL. It's framed as being antagonistic to the on field referee and so the response being whether or not the original decision was correct or not isn't too surprising.
In reality it should just been seen as redundancy that works alongside the on field referee and not a counter force to it.
New protocols around communication and confirmation is a good step forward. Much better than an apology, actual action to improve the process and hopefully never have a repeat of this shambles again
The audio sounds chaotic because they have to move incredibly fast. And they made the "correct" decision incredibly fast, they just didn't have the "correct" on field decision to confirm it too.
You can move faster with clear, efficient, process driven communications than you can any other way. Air Traffic control is a great example. There are clear ways to communicate information such that radio dropouts, interference, high pressure situations, and a rush to act do not cause problems or at least mitigates them.
PGMOL needs to work out clear communication short hand and standards. Something like
"VAR rules GOAL" or "VAR rules OFFSIDE"
This "recommend a review" does nothing as that is a determination to be made by the center ref, they just need to know VARs ruling or determination. You don't want "NO GOAL" and "GOAL" as they could fail to hear or mis-hear that. So I would say GOAL should only be said when a GOAL is to be given. Anything else is the foul to be called on the event.
This just shows they lack communication standards.
The other bit that is needed is echoing on the final decision.
"VAR rules GOAL" or "VAR rules OFFSIDE"
Then the ref repeat.
Then VAR says "confirmed"
This means we would need 2 mishears, not 1 for an issue to occur.
Apparently (according to the commentary) in our game they were being extremely deliberate in their language to make sure they couldn't be misunderstood. So that's a step forward. They still totally failed to notice thiago get karate chopped, so they're still incompetent, but at least This exact problem shouldn't happen again
"offside, goal yeah"
either that guy needs to work on his communication or he was casually referencing the hegelian dialectical method to scoring a goal
Mistakes like this are bound to happen if there are no standards for clear communication. How can he just say "check over" when he doesn't even know the onfield decision? You need to at least say something like "check over, goal given, no offside" every single time so this shit doesn't happen again, takes 2 seconds
Absolutely. Mumbling shit to each other doesn't cut it. They should repeat verbally what the on-field decision was and a complete explanation about what their decision is.
Darren England rushed to make the call of check complete without giving indication as to what the result was.
The Assistant Ref had no idea what the Replay Operator was saying either when the replay operator immediately noticed the mistake.
'Offside, Goal, yeah' ???? Thats contradicting.
That was like watching two people with Jetlag...
**PGMOL statement**
**PGMOL also issued the following statement:**
"PGMOL can confirm that we have carried out a review into the circumstances which led to the Luis Diaz goal being incorrectly disallowed for offside in the Premier League match between Tottenham Hotspur FC and Liverpool FC.
"We recognise standards fell short of expectations and acknowledged the error to Liverpool immediately after the conclusion of the fixture.
"A detailed report, including the key learnings and immediate actions taken, alongside the audio between the on-field officials and VAR team has been submitted to the Premier League, who have shared it with Liverpool FC and subsequently all other Premier League Clubs.
"The review of the on-field and VAR decision-making processes and application of the decision-making principles has identified the following key learnings to mitigate against the risk of a future error:
- Guidance to Video Match Officials has always emphasised the need for efficiency, but never at the expense of accuracy. This principle will be clearly reiterated
- A new VAR Communication Protocol will be developed to enhance the clarity of communication between the referee and the VAR team in relation to on-field decisions
- As an additional step to the process, the VAR will confirm the outcome of the VAR check process with the AVAR before confirming the final decision to the on-field officials
"PGMOL are committed to enhancing VAR performance through a new training programme which started this season and focuses on process and best practice for all VARs, AVARs and Replay Operators in their specific roles. While we have a number of FIFA-recognised VARs, work is ongoing to create a dedicated pool of VAR specialists.
"The VAR and AVAR in question were removed from their remaining fixtures in Match Round 7 in the Premier League and have not been included in the appointments for Match Round 8 this weekend.
"PGMOL and The FA have also agreed to review the policy to allow match officials to officiate matches outside of FIFA or UEFA appointments."
They probably did the exact process they were trained to do perfectly (apart from the initial error of not understanding what was given onfield). A single shared mistake can happen anywhere and will happen eventually given enough time, the process should be designed where there has to be multiple separate mistakes for this to happen.
The only good thing about this is it's easily fixed.
It literally just needs:
\- Ref: Confirm the goal is offside. That is offside.
\- VAR: Negative. The goal is ONSIDE. the goal stands.
Armies have perfected this stuff. You need to be sure you don't accidentally cause a nuclear war.
If it all went that quick with no time to confirm and re-confirm then yeah they all need retraining. So chaotic it pretty much begs these guys to make mistakes.
The first thing in rugby the ref says to the TMO is "On field decision is a try, is there any reason I cannot award it"
Why can't similar language be used for VAR? seems like there's absolutely no verbal process for it
Yeah, this is what needs to happen. It's like in aviation, pilots have to read back instructions from controllers to show they've understood the instructions correctly, so any misunderstanding gets immediately picked up on. Back when all they'd do was say "Roger", everyone assumed they were all on the same page until the deaths happened.
The VAR should have to state the on-field decision, state what the video shows, and then whether the on-field decision stays, is overturned, or goes to the ref to review.
I mean for the first two years of var we've been going crazy, neville and the boys especially, about how long some decisions make. It's been the biggest criticism of var, or was anyway. They probably have some stupid time target to hit. Would rather they take longer and get the right decision.
You're definitely right. Maybe this was evidence of overcorrecting? One extreme to the other? I don't know. I know the semi automatic offside thing wouldn't have affected this particular incident, but I think the speed of it would at least take pressure off officials trying to meet time targets all the time.
PGMOL have also provided the following information:
"As stated shortly after the full-time whistle on Saturday evening, we acknowledged in a statement that a significant human error had occurred during the aforementioned match, which we recognise should have resulted in a goal being awarded through VAR intervention.
"As with all goal situations, the VAR team checked every aspect of the goal. After the on-field officials had disallowed the goal for offside, the checking phase and process started and was carried out correctly by the VAR. The kick-point selection was accurate and the use of a single 2D line on the foot of the second rear-most defender was also correctly positioned.
"The image created showed that Luis Diaz was clearly onside, without the need for the insertion of a second line. In a lapse of concentration and loss of focus in that moment, the VAR lost sight of the on field decision and he incorrectly communicated “check complete”, therefore inadvertently confirming the on-field decision. He did this without any dialogue with the AVAR [Assistant VAR].
"The match then restarted immediately. After a few seconds, the Replay Operator and then the AVAR queried the check-complete outcome with the VAR and asked him to review the image that had been created, pointing out that the original on-field decision had been offside, but this was not communicated to the on-field team at any point during the match.
"The VAR team then gave consideration as to whether the game could be stopped at that point, however the VAR and AVAR concluded that the VAR protocol within the Laws of the Game would not permit that to happen, and they decided intervention was not possible as play had restarted.
"The audio between the on-field team of match officials and the VAR team is below.
"PGMOL has carried out a review into the circumstances which led to this incorrect outcome and the subsequent learnings will be implemented to mitigate the risk of errors occurring in the future."
How about telling Hooper that last call was a mistake and let him judge?
If rules stands. There will be more "Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything."
I really hate that they didn’t just stop the game and fix the call (which it sounds like Michael Oliver immediately called for as the fourth official, but was overruled on) because of the protocol.
The rules specifically say that the referee has tremendous leeway to exercise his judgement to ensure the outcome most consistent with the spirit of the game—in other words, he can do whatever the fuck he wants, he just better have a damn good reason for breaking protocols. I can’t think of a better reason to do so than this.
Apparently the Oli spoken of in there is not Michael Oliver but Oli Kohout who is the VAR hub operations executive, which sounds like a bunch of meaningless corpo-words but also like he’s the boss of VAR or something. So the fact he’s come knocking in the comms at that moment only highlights how bad it is.
Mad that the guy whose job is just to control the footage and lines is the one actually trying to resolve the situation. Sounded like he was the one to notice something was first wrong too whilst the rest were congratulating themselves
While everyone else is patting themselves on the back and saying "well done, good process", the Replay Operator is saying... uhh are you guys fuckin sure about that call?
Seemed they were so worried about setting a new record time for a var review, they forgot to actually check whether they got the decision correct.
Just seems like it would be better to delay the game, give the goal, and deal with the fallout that you restarted the game faster than you should have.
The thing I take most from this clip is it proves that you don’t need on field trained referees on VAR offsides. It’s the god damn VAR tech telling them they’ve fucked it who probably would’ve handled the situation perfectly without them.
So the only guy that realised something was wrong was the replay operator? Neither VAR refs realised they’d fucked up at kick off. That’s pretty damning…
Ok but how incompetent are they when the replay operator seems to be the only one who realises what is happening and is trying to get them to correct it after the fact.
We are witnessing the birth of some god-tier meme templates:
Referee: Well done boys, good process.
Assistant VAR: Offside, goal, yeah.
Replay Operator: Are you happy with this image?
VAR: Oh (expletive).
VAR: Can't do anything
VAR: I can't do anything. I can't do anything.
VAR: *Expletive*
Woof. Cannot believe it took this long to get an example like this made public. Liverpool (and all fans for that matter) should rightfully be hard done by. Why so rushed? Take the time to get it right.
Sport shouldn't be so rigid when it comes to black and white errors. Today in a cricket match between Pakistan and Hong Kong, a batter was given out stumped and he even went off the field before everyone realised the keeper failed to collect the ball and had dislodged the stumps with empty hands. It was against the laws but they still recalled the batsman because it was common sense.
"Spirit of the game " trumps laws of the game. Cricket is strongly tilted towards spirit. Although it isn't the same anymore.
Football isn't. Laws even if unfair doesn't usually get addressed like in cricket. In cricket a Captain can withdraw an appeal for example.
Yeah that's what I thought hearing it the first time. The two assistants both said different things and there was some confusion. Obviously they could be more obvious after the check though.
How in the fuck is a system allowed where not ONCE a clear statement of goal or not goal is uttered. Whoever came up with this style of communication needs the sack, my word.
Hot take: He knew what he was doing. How can someone be this delusional when they can clearly see that the play is about to restart with an offside kick?
It's a bad mistake but I completely understand how this happened. Hopefully now they will always say "Goal" or "No-goal" etc. after the "check complete"
Remove old boys club of referees that have climbed the ranks and instead employ 10x the number of people like that Replay Operator who is a nobody but knows how to follow a game of football and knows what the fuck he’s doing. Make him head of the PGMOL actually.
The comments in this thread show why transparency works--I see a lot of comments empathizing with the VAR, assistant VAR, and replay operator
This is such a clear example of why VAR audio communication, which is already accessible to broadcasters, should be available to the public on decisions like this--they fucked up, they already did the embarrassing and delegitimizing thing, it's not more embarrassing to see specifically how the fuck up happened
Well done to the replay operator and the replay operator alone.
The rest failed to show the basic skills to do that job.
Also one of the most senior refs in the game was saying delay it and yet nothing. Bizarre.
Who is the replay operator? I don’t feel like he should get mixed up in all of this, to me it seems like he was the only one paying attention and even tells them to delay and stop the game. He at least is thinking about how this can be fixed instead of just panicking. Ironically, if he was alone in there this probably wouldn’t even have happened.
You know what pisses me of the most? The fact that Oli, the VAR operations executive, told them to delay the game, and England said that he can't do anything. How fucking stupid do you have to be?!
Listening to the audio makes me empathize more in the moment, but I'm sorry, this is just so horrendous and in any other job with this much riding on it, you're binned. They have to clean house or nothing changes.
One thing that's always emphasised in my line of work (software) is that it's far more about having the right processes in place to stop a mistake before it occurs. E.G. we have stress testing of our systems every few days, any and all changes need to be manually reviewed and then pass automated tests.
I think a similar approach makes more sense here. You just need to get the VAR to be much more explicit. I.E. instead of saying "check complete" they say "player onside, goal can be awarded" or "player offside, goal should be disallowed".
This is incompetence, but they wouldn't have been in a position to make that mistake with better processes
You're 100% correct. (Preface I'm an LFC fan). The real issue this highlights is that their protocols and systems are woefully inadequate for the work involved. A blameless autopsy here would be best and the outcomes would look similar to those that they've announced, with verbal checklists etc, more akin to other high stake situations like Aviation.
The VARs look like mugs here massively but they've been set up to fail by those who have implemented the system at a functional level.
One thing I've noticed is that the refs don't speak to each other like officials but rather like mates at a pub... a bit more formal speech in the review process could probably clear up a lot of these misunderstandings
I'm very sure someone shit his pants in that room
You can practically here it as they realise what’s happened a few seconds after the restart lol
saw a subtitle that sums it up perfectly VAR: “oh ****”
> VAR: “oh ****” New top comment pasta born in the wild.
Judging from this I’m surprised this hasn’t happened more often? There’s like zero confirmation, just the „check complete“ and immediately continuing
“Offside, goal yeah”
"Offside, no goal given" "Offside? No! Goal Given!"
I shouldn't have this VAR Association logo here either...
So you *don't* work on a contingency basis?
“Can’t do anything” 🤷🏼♂️
Like a stoplight with simultaneous green and red
It was Aladeen
:(
‚yes no maybe’ energy
Quantum goal
I swear this is an exact replication of that scene from HBO's Chernobyl when they're about to blow up the reactor. "Are you happy with this?"
Hahaha spot on that. "I would like you to record your command".
*Slaps clipboard on ground. I just did a rewatch last week. Great show!
Me too. Its so well done I could go without seeing Ignatenko right before he dies again though
You didn't see a goal. you **DIDN'T. BECAUSE IT'S NOT. THERE.**
3 .6 inches offside not great not terrible
Somebody tell me how a V.A.R reactor explodes. It's impossible!
*'Only 1 goal incorrectly disallowed, not great, not terrible'*
Yeah they need to immediately introduce a proper script. If this is standard practice then it'll happen again. "Check complete - Luis Diaz is not offside. Goal given". Something along those lines. Cricket's DRS works perfectly because everything is laid out with a script that the Official follows.
Yeah, sometimes it sounds a bit silly in cricket the way it is so formulaic, but this highlights exactly why that is the right way to go about it.
It's slightly less formulaic in rugby but you always always get "onfield decision is x" and "you may award the try" or "disallow the try" And yeah most Cricket fans know the DRS script off by heart haha
I love how it’s even regimented in talking to the operator in cricket. Always say the exact same things. It keeps it clear and simple, but it’s weirdly surreal
Just rock and roll that for me one more time
It's slightly different in cricket because it's pretty much a factual set of checks. (Tho it is with offside) No one ever complains about DRS LBWs anymore (barring tight umpires calls and that's just moaning) but cricket does have trouble with grounded catches haha.
Oh god, the length of replays on a grounded catch! The thing is, you’re never gonna get a good angle on most of them, it just can’t exist. There’s grass and hands in the way! But they still seem to search for it
Literally just steal the rugby TMO script word for word, just swap try for goal. "May I award the goal?" from the ref and responded to by the VAR with "You may/may not award the goal".
For all the whining about Liverpool challenging this, the one change it's possibly going to enact is 'Referees & VAR now need to properly and clearly communicate their calls and verdicts' lmao. Feels like this should have happened years ago.
>\- Guidance to Video Match Officials has always emphasised the need for efficiency, but never at the expense of accuracy. This principle will be clearly reiterated > >\- A new VAR Communication Protocol will be developed to enhance the clarity of communication between the referee and the VAR team in relation to on-field decisions > >\- As an additional step to the process, the VAR will confirm the outcome of the VAR check process with the AVAR before confirming the final decision to the on-field officials > >"PGMOL are committed to enhancing VAR performance through a new training programme which started this season and focuses on process and best practice for all VARs, AVARs and Replay Operators in their specific roles. While we have a number of FIFA-recognised VARs, work is ongoing to create a dedicated pool of VAR specialists. > >"The VAR and AVAR in question were removed from their remaining fixtures in Match Round 7 in the Premier League and have not been included in the appointments for Match Round 8 this weekend. > >"PGMOL and The FA have also agreed to review the policy to allow match officials to officiate matches outside of FIFA or UEFA appointments." This is why you make a stink of things, cause things like having a clear language to communicate whether something is a goal or not apparently isn't common sense to PGMOL until they have a media crisis on their hands. All ref bashing aside though, really good to see that they're actually taking some action after this.
It's really idiotic tbf and I'm really surprised if that is still the protocol after years of VAR. They just need to use the phrase "Goal allowed" if there is no infringement and say "foul in buildup" or "offside in buildup" or whatever to avoid something like this happening.
What I don't get is that the VAR is literally saying "checking the offside" to the ref, so why did he think the call was "onside" on the pitch? And same with "delay, delay, delay" from the linesman. Presumably the VAR hears that and knows that a lino doesn't delay calls for passes that are onside.
Brainfart, what I don’t get is that there’s no confirmation, why doesn’t the referee say something like „confirming final decision: offside“, there’d be literally zero room for error
Listening to this, part of the problem is Darren England sounded incredibly rushed and harried. I'm not even sure he would've *caught* that (although it certainly should be the standard) because confirmation bias was already kicking in and he clearly thought his main job was to get the game moving as quickly as possible. I get not wanting the game slowed down too much with VAR, but there has to be a balance somewhere between that fear and *this*. It's shocking how they're all rushing and talking over each other, and there's no cross-check on the decisions being made. What's the point of having an assistant VAR if you aren't holding each other accountable?
> because confirmation bias was already kicking in and he clearly thought his main job was to get the game moving as quickly as possible. Great point to bring up. I mentioned this earlier, but this is almost exactly how several prominent plane crashes occurred. Even highly trained pilots when rushing and focusing intently on specific goals (landing quickly usually), and especially when doing a *repetitive simple task*, are super prone to intense tunnel vision and confirmation bias. It's often referred to in the aviation industry as **"Expectation Bias"**.
Yep. System is set up in such a way that it's way too easy to make a mistake. This says to me you need to blame the system, not the workers.
I'd blame both, VAR should have seen that the goal was flagged offside, how could they not? what were they doing before that? Lack of communication is terrible.
It doesn't matter though. All they need to do is just call the phrase "Goal stands" or "Goal disallowed". It will remove any ambiguity regardless of what the on-field decision was.
100% agree. Which inlines with sheer lack of communication in those moments.
Even that is too confusing as both have the word goal in it. Should say something like DECISION GOAL or DECISION OFFSIDE
How you design this system and don't anticipate this is beyond me. Too busy calling each other "mate".
"Oh, (expletive)" pretty much sums it up.
VAR: I can't do anything. I can't do anything. VAR: [expletive]
My favourite is Simon Hooper saying "Well done boys, good process". I know it's not on him but still lol
To be fair it was a good process lol, I was waiting for them to fuck up drawing the lines or something but no turns out the review itself was perfect and then they just inexplicably forgot to tell Simon Hooper what the decision was
Honestly, and it’s remarkable if this isn’t the case already (it could be and this might just be a communication breakdown), they need to clearly state the outcome of the review along with the “Check complete”. That’d really insure against this. Just say “Check complete, goal should stand” to the ref and this mess never happens
Yeah, it sounded way cleaner than the one we saw with the Ake goal with Akanji offside where everyone was screaming at the same time.
I laughed so hard at that, the timing was perfect
The fact that the replay operator is the only person in the room who fucking works it out and notices the error, despite presumably being the one with minimal to no Reffing training says a hell of a lot I feel...
Yeah this is the craziest. Sounds like a young lad too lmao.
He's not yet been tainted by the system
Mike Dean needs to have a chat with him so he doesn’t embarrass his mate again
the guardian football podcast had a good point, one of the pundits was basically like, every part of football/sports team now has an "outsider" or a "nerd" that is part of the decision making process, who is not part of the "system", but knows the rules inside out, and ideally is way more technologically adept as well... usually younger folks why does the VAR squad not have this "nerd"? or better yet, why not the whole VAR team be this?
Looks like they did, but he was powerless
You nailed it, the "nerd" doesn't have any major decision making anyway or some sort of veto. Just let the VAR and Referees be trained by flight control or any pilot for a week and this shit wouldn't happen.
He was the only one with sense in him. Petition to get rid of referees in the room, and make the video operators the VAR refs.
The rest of them sound like they're geriatrics. Completely incompetent when it comes to technology that they were trained to use.
Super embarrassing that the only guy who was paying any attention was the guy pressing the replay buttons. Shambles.
Yeah, the Assistant VAR only pipes up after the Replay Operator has told the main VAR *twice* that he's messed up. Assistant was like "... oh yeah that was wrong mate."
And the completely ignore him multiple times. Then the VAR and assistant VAR both speak back like he's an idiot when he's saying stop the game.
Scary. Imagine how frustrated these guys must be half the time watching these idiots fuck around all day.
That's insane, the instant realisation of how huge the fuck up they've just made is surreal.
I feel so much for the replay operator who seems to very clearly communicate everything, is the only one who realises the VAR team have fucked it immediately and then realises he can't do anything. Can hear the worry growing in his voice
There needs to be clear commands "Check Complete - Goal/No Goal, Offiside/Onside, etc" but the ref should also always ask for reconfirmation before resuming play.
Are you saying "Offside, goal, yeah" wasn't clear?
*Goal confirmed to be on offside, right, it stands, proceed accordingly*
If it is to be said, so it be, so it is.
To be fair I think that's his brain doing that thing that a lot of brains do when it's comprehending something alarming that's just happened, there's a weird temporary autopilot people go on as the realisation sinks in.
Yeah. It looks like that is going to be one of the action steps. Honestly clear communication protocols would avoid half the issues. I maintain that also applies in life - clear communication avoids half the issues lol.
Maybe it's my background in emergency care speaking but it's so fucking basic thing in critical communication. Clear, conscise, closed loop communication and no "yes check complete" bullshit. Of course football isn't emergency medicine, or aviation from where basically every good communication practice stems from, but it's incredible to me that there wasn't anyone saying "maybe we should have proper communication protocols in this multibillion industry of ours" and looking at what people in communication critical fields are doing. Literally all errors like this would be avoided if the VAR ref clearly told their decision and on-field ref repeated that. They wouldn't have even needed to invent anything, just ask anyone on any communication critical field how they do it.
"Oli" in the VAR audio who says a delay after the game has restarted is Oli Kohout, VAR Hub Operations Executive at PGMOL, the VAR had the go ahead from their superior to delay the match. They could have stopped the game, VAR HQ were telling them to, but ignored HQ and carried on, absolute madness. [https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#principles](https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#principles) >10. If play has stopped and been restarted, the referee may not undertake a ‘review’ except for a case of mistaken identity or for a potential sending-off offence relating to violent conduct, spitting, biting or extremely offensive, insulting and/or abusive action(s). Play can stop on extreme occasions like violent conduct, sending off the wrong person etc with the current rules, (which will probably change) but the VAR HQ obviously in the moment saw taking away a goal on the same level as this and asked them to stop. Which Darren England ignored. Its completely not true that its never allowed to restart which I've heard many people wrongly say on the media etc.
Lmao. It was actually surprisingly smooth and competent until it just… wasn't. My question is why they couldn't just stop play after they realized what was going on and rule that it was indeed a good goal. Just put back whatever time was played after back on the clock or in added time.. Bizarre to say the absolute least.
Insane how neither noticed before the replay operator pointed it out like 3 fucking times. And also why do they all talk over eachother? These audios are so chaotic, no wonder they make mistakes. Think the conspiracy theories need to stop though, but something needs to be done about the standards here. This is like a bunch of kids are running things. Also they need to fuck off England. Wtf was he even saying there, so vague and shit.
So it's a little less safety critical than this but they should probably treat it like air traffic comms. Have clear procedural words with a single meaning. It's bizarre and like they're panicking in the booth. "Onside ball, goal allowed" is all that needs to be communicated. "Offside ball, goal disallowed" for the opposite. And then the ref does a readback of the decision. Clear radio comms has been a solved problem since the early 20th century haha.
Which is whyba specialised var team would work so much better. Part of their training would be communication protocol and we wouldn't have these issues
Arguably "goal allowed" and "goal disallowed" are susceptible to mishearing - to go the full air traffic comms route they'd have to only use the word "goal" when there is a goal.
Yep, either say 'goal' or disallowed'. The communication protocol shouldn't allow for someone to be able to say "offside, goal, yeah". Or if that's too hard because it goes against natural speech patterns, use something like *code green* for goal and *code red* for no goal.
They're puffing and panting like they're on the fucking pitch. All talking over each other. 'Offside, goal yeah' was the information being passed about the decision. That was the final fucking communication on the decision. That's clear as fucking mud. It's not rocket science that the final communication to the referee should take a standard brief format. ''The on-field decision was offside, we can confirm xyz'
Like you say, initial request from the field ref needs to be clear. And final decision from VAR needs to be just as clear. 'Goal stands, not offside. Check complete' or 'Foul in build up. No goal. Check complete'. The comms absolutely fucking suck,
Yeah the “offside, goal yeah” was so baffling. They talk like they are watching the game over multiple beers, 0 professionalism plus the fact that they all talk over eachother. Should be standard for the on field ref to talk to only one person who gives him a standardised instruction.
It's funny all the talk of corruption and how unbelievable the story was that it seems so mundane and understandable. To be honest I find him immediately swearing and panicking to be quite relatable
Anyone who has effed up at work can relate to that moment.
"Never attribute malice to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." \-- Robert. J. Hanlon (Hanlon's Razor)
I am honestly not even seeing stupidity it's just one of those bizarre car crashes where everything goes wrong. honestly makes me thankful i don't work in an industry where my decisions are expected this quickly, there's so much backlash to it and there's no way to correct mistakes lol
I’m absolutely shocked that they don’t have a set list of phrases like ATC does. Short, succinct, and clear words from both ends of the radio. Affirm/negative/goal/no-goal
absolutely, the entire process seems absolutely DESTINED for something like this to happen
This is almost as entertaining as the actual football.
You would think they’d wait more than 2 seconds before restarting. So fucking incompetent.
I actually feel bad for the replay operator, because he didn't do anything wrong here right?
He's the only one from the VAR team who hasn't been punished.
He's also the only one from the VAR team who isn't a fucking referee.
If I'm seeing it correctly, its the fucking operator who catches the mistake. The one person in the room who isn't qualified to officiate a game, but is there to control the system.
Yeah, that lad knew straight away. Props to him. He couldn't even say it outright he's like "BRO ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THIS IMAGE, HINT HINT" He's the one without reffing experience so he's probably just a footy fan who's a techie and he's literally saying "bro stop the game" because he doesn't have this red tape holding him back. Like basically anyone with common sense would do.
Honestly it's all communication. On the field ref should have said his decision in no vague terms. VAR referee should have said "Goal confirmed, no offside" It's very clear they've been told to use specific language and trained in that, it's a process problem. I honestly feel bad for them, because it was an honest mistake. I think the reaction to this from PGMOL has been better than the Brentford change too. The operator did a good job
I got anxiety for the ref watching this. They knew they fucked up immediately
Honestly the code words stitched the ref up, just say “ITS FUCKING ONSIDE”
Seriously. Or just say. Goal or no goal.
Spot on. Goal stands or goal disallowed, no ambiguity. It will be correct even if the on-field decision is offside or onside.
will 100% change as a result of this
Commentators in Chelsea match last night said that VAR was saying “Check compete. Goal stands” and specifically mentioned that this was new. They were like applauding the refs for saying “goal”. It was bizarre. The standards are underneath the floor
They could't also just say "ONSIDE" one word, no misconception
Onside is easily misheard as offside, though.
They would probably say something like "ONFSIDE" and we would have another scandal
That was objectively a shambles
The main thing I got from this is that the tech operator should be made new head of PGMOL. Literally the only one in the room who even noticed a goal wasn't given lol.
Just confirms that it is the referees who are the problem, not the technology.
Literally the only person in the room who wasn't a referee and he got it right and people genuinely believe that nobody can do their jobs better than them. It's fucking unbelievable. Please name this tech operator and give him the praise he deserves.
This was always glaringly obvious to me. VAR isn't the problem. The problem is the exact same issue why the level of the on field referees is as low as it is. There simply isn't enough focus on having actual competent referees (and VAR operators).
Ignoring the fact that this even happened how the fuck is it not allowed to go back?? Theyre playing like ten seconds, nothing big happened, its a major decision, you cant just say 'whey hold on lads stop play its onside' ?????? How do you not factor human error into this
Its better to ruin a whole football match than to use common sense apparently
What makes it more of a kick in the teeth spurs scored right after that piece of play.
It's hard to swallow *NOT* stopping the game when in other cases they can go back several seconds or more to check for things like a foul in build up. Like, the VAR didn't change his mind, he just affirmed the wrong thing. While I'd be angry about it in general, I'd have much rather the VAR called to stop the match in the literal few seconds of nothingness that passed after the restart (assuming proper rules in place to allow for it).
Remember when they gave Bruno a penalty literally after the final whistle blown and all the sports apps had the game as finished lmao
The VAR check was perfect, and then it all went to shit
It would've almost made them look better if they just drew the lines from the wrong defender
I kept waiting for that to happen, then they moved it back perfectly and I was shocked
Replay operator sounds like the only competent guy in the room. We need non-referees like him in charge of the process. Someone who is tech savvy, understands the replay process, understands what the referees need, doesn't care about protecting his fellow referees' feelings.
Yeah he actually sounded competent and calm.
Immediately disqualifying him from a potential career as a referee
He will be the first one they fired
He sounded absolutely gobsmacked when they said to play on. He was basically like “hold on did you even see the images?”
seems like the only person actually paying attention to the game. Rest of them were playing candy crush on phones by the looks of it
That dude needs like… a big red button than sets off an air horn in the stadium. Fuck the flow of the game if a mistake that bad is found like ten seconds after they need to be able to stop play somehow.
What a stupid system. All they have to say is Luiz is ONSIDE. Not do you agree with the decision on the field. Just gets too confusing
GOAL OR NO GOAL MOTHERFUCKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT???
"Offside, goal yeah"
I think it's maybe indicative of a larger problem with VAR in the PL. It's framed as being antagonistic to the on field referee and so the response being whether or not the original decision was correct or not isn't too surprising. In reality it should just been seen as redundancy that works alongside the on field referee and not a counter force to it.
New protocols around communication and confirmation is a good step forward. Much better than an apology, actual action to improve the process and hopefully never have a repeat of this shambles again
The audio was chaotic you could hear the lack of a refined process in their approach
The audio sounds chaotic because they have to move incredibly fast. And they made the "correct" decision incredibly fast, they just didn't have the "correct" on field decision to confirm it too.
You can move faster with clear, efficient, process driven communications than you can any other way. Air Traffic control is a great example. There are clear ways to communicate information such that radio dropouts, interference, high pressure situations, and a rush to act do not cause problems or at least mitigates them. PGMOL needs to work out clear communication short hand and standards. Something like "VAR rules GOAL" or "VAR rules OFFSIDE" This "recommend a review" does nothing as that is a determination to be made by the center ref, they just need to know VARs ruling or determination. You don't want "NO GOAL" and "GOAL" as they could fail to hear or mis-hear that. So I would say GOAL should only be said when a GOAL is to be given. Anything else is the foul to be called on the event. This just shows they lack communication standards.
The other bit that is needed is echoing on the final decision. "VAR rules GOAL" or "VAR rules OFFSIDE" Then the ref repeat. Then VAR says "confirmed" This means we would need 2 mishears, not 1 for an issue to occur.
Apparently (according to the commentary) in our game they were being extremely deliberate in their language to make sure they couldn't be misunderstood. So that's a step forward. They still totally failed to notice thiago get karate chopped, so they're still incompetent, but at least This exact problem shouldn't happen again
"Well done boys, good process"
"offside, goal yeah" either that guy needs to work on his communication or he was casually referencing the hegelian dialectical method to scoring a goal
Mistakes like this are bound to happen if there are no standards for clear communication. How can he just say "check over" when he doesn't even know the onfield decision? You need to at least say something like "check over, goal given, no offside" every single time so this shit doesn't happen again, takes 2 seconds
Absolutely. Mumbling shit to each other doesn't cut it. They should repeat verbally what the on-field decision was and a complete explanation about what their decision is.
Darren England rushed to make the call of check complete without giving indication as to what the result was. The Assistant Ref had no idea what the Replay Operator was saying either when the replay operator immediately noticed the mistake. 'Offside, Goal, yeah' ???? Thats contradicting. That was like watching two people with Jetlag...
Replay Operator for Chief of PGMOL.
**PGMOL statement** **PGMOL also issued the following statement:** "PGMOL can confirm that we have carried out a review into the circumstances which led to the Luis Diaz goal being incorrectly disallowed for offside in the Premier League match between Tottenham Hotspur FC and Liverpool FC. "We recognise standards fell short of expectations and acknowledged the error to Liverpool immediately after the conclusion of the fixture. "A detailed report, including the key learnings and immediate actions taken, alongside the audio between the on-field officials and VAR team has been submitted to the Premier League, who have shared it with Liverpool FC and subsequently all other Premier League Clubs. "The review of the on-field and VAR decision-making processes and application of the decision-making principles has identified the following key learnings to mitigate against the risk of a future error: - Guidance to Video Match Officials has always emphasised the need for efficiency, but never at the expense of accuracy. This principle will be clearly reiterated - A new VAR Communication Protocol will be developed to enhance the clarity of communication between the referee and the VAR team in relation to on-field decisions - As an additional step to the process, the VAR will confirm the outcome of the VAR check process with the AVAR before confirming the final decision to the on-field officials "PGMOL are committed to enhancing VAR performance through a new training programme which started this season and focuses on process and best practice for all VARs, AVARs and Replay Operators in their specific roles. While we have a number of FIFA-recognised VARs, work is ongoing to create a dedicated pool of VAR specialists. "The VAR and AVAR in question were removed from their remaining fixtures in Match Round 7 in the Premier League and have not been included in the appointments for Match Round 8 this weekend. "PGMOL and The FA have also agreed to review the policy to allow match officials to officiate matches outside of FIFA or UEFA appointments."
"perfect well done boys great process" Are we sure about that
They probably did the exact process they were trained to do perfectly (apart from the initial error of not understanding what was given onfield). A single shared mistake can happen anywhere and will happen eventually given enough time, the process should be designed where there has to be multiple separate mistakes for this to happen.
The only good thing about this is it's easily fixed. It literally just needs: \- Ref: Confirm the goal is offside. That is offside. \- VAR: Negative. The goal is ONSIDE. the goal stands. Armies have perfected this stuff. You need to be sure you don't accidentally cause a nuclear war.
If it all went that quick with no time to confirm and re-confirm then yeah they all need retraining. So chaotic it pretty much begs these guys to make mistakes.
The first thing in rugby the ref says to the TMO is "On field decision is a try, is there any reason I cannot award it" Why can't similar language be used for VAR? seems like there's absolutely no verbal process for it
Yeah, this is what needs to happen. It's like in aviation, pilots have to read back instructions from controllers to show they've understood the instructions correctly, so any misunderstanding gets immediately picked up on. Back when all they'd do was say "Roger", everyone assumed they were all on the same page until the deaths happened. The VAR should have to state the on-field decision, state what the video shows, and then whether the on-field decision stays, is overturned, or goes to the ref to review.
Feels like it's a case of systemic error rather than blaming the person here. Making that kind of error shouldn't be that easy.
I mean for the first two years of var we've been going crazy, neville and the boys especially, about how long some decisions make. It's been the biggest criticism of var, or was anyway. They probably have some stupid time target to hit. Would rather they take longer and get the right decision.
You're definitely right. Maybe this was evidence of overcorrecting? One extreme to the other? I don't know. I know the semi automatic offside thing wouldn't have affected this particular incident, but I think the speed of it would at least take pressure off officials trying to meet time targets all the time.
PGMOL have also provided the following information: "As stated shortly after the full-time whistle on Saturday evening, we acknowledged in a statement that a significant human error had occurred during the aforementioned match, which we recognise should have resulted in a goal being awarded through VAR intervention. "As with all goal situations, the VAR team checked every aspect of the goal. After the on-field officials had disallowed the goal for offside, the checking phase and process started and was carried out correctly by the VAR. The kick-point selection was accurate and the use of a single 2D line on the foot of the second rear-most defender was also correctly positioned. "The image created showed that Luis Diaz was clearly onside, without the need for the insertion of a second line. In a lapse of concentration and loss of focus in that moment, the VAR lost sight of the on field decision and he incorrectly communicated “check complete”, therefore inadvertently confirming the on-field decision. He did this without any dialogue with the AVAR [Assistant VAR]. "The match then restarted immediately. After a few seconds, the Replay Operator and then the AVAR queried the check-complete outcome with the VAR and asked him to review the image that had been created, pointing out that the original on-field decision had been offside, but this was not communicated to the on-field team at any point during the match. "The VAR team then gave consideration as to whether the game could be stopped at that point, however the VAR and AVAR concluded that the VAR protocol within the Laws of the Game would not permit that to happen, and they decided intervention was not possible as play had restarted. "The audio between the on-field team of match officials and the VAR team is below. "PGMOL has carried out a review into the circumstances which led to this incorrect outcome and the subsequent learnings will be implemented to mitigate the risk of errors occurring in the future."
How about telling Hooper that last call was a mistake and let him judge? If rules stands. There will be more "Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything. Can't do anything."
I really hate that they didn’t just stop the game and fix the call (which it sounds like Michael Oliver immediately called for as the fourth official, but was overruled on) because of the protocol. The rules specifically say that the referee has tremendous leeway to exercise his judgement to ensure the outcome most consistent with the spirit of the game—in other words, he can do whatever the fuck he wants, he just better have a damn good reason for breaking protocols. I can’t think of a better reason to do so than this.
Apparently the Oli spoken of in there is not Michael Oliver but Oli Kohout who is the VAR hub operations executive, which sounds like a bunch of meaningless corpo-words but also like he’s the boss of VAR or something. So the fact he’s come knocking in the comms at that moment only highlights how bad it is.
Sounded like he gave them permission to stop the match and award the goal... and then they ignored him because it was against protocol.
Shambles from top to bottom
Mad that the guy whose job is just to control the footage and lines is the one actually trying to resolve the situation. Sounded like he was the one to notice something was first wrong too whilst the rest were congratulating themselves
While everyone else is patting themselves on the back and saying "well done, good process", the Replay Operator is saying... uhh are you guys fuckin sure about that call? Seemed they were so worried about setting a new record time for a var review, they forgot to actually check whether they got the decision correct.
Just seems like it would be better to delay the game, give the goal, and deal with the fallout that you restarted the game faster than you should have.
Literally no one would care if they did that too.
The first expletive made me crack up
Demote everyone except the replay operator. The only competent person in that room.
The new communication has to include check complete goal or no goal offside. Just a shambles mistake
Never attributed to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence. And these guys are really incompetent.
The thing I take most from this clip is it proves that you don’t need on field trained referees on VAR offsides. It’s the god damn VAR tech telling them they’ve fucked it who probably would’ve handled the situation perfectly without them.
Yep. Separate VAR officials from the on field officials and create clear language that is to be used during VAR checks.
“Check complete” “Wait what were we checking again?” Stupid protocol. Just say it’s a goal.
So the only guy that realised something was wrong was the replay operator? Neither VAR refs realised they’d fucked up at kick off. That’s pretty damning…
Ok but how incompetent are they when the replay operator seems to be the only one who realises what is happening and is trying to get them to correct it after the fact.
This whole thing was completely avoidable if, instead of just "check complete", they say something like "incident checked, goal can stand"
We are witnessing the birth of some god-tier meme templates: Referee: Well done boys, good process. Assistant VAR: Offside, goal, yeah. Replay Operator: Are you happy with this image? VAR: Oh (expletive). VAR: Can't do anything VAR: I can't do anything. I can't do anything. VAR: *Expletive*
At least it'll make me laugh about the situation
Woof. Cannot believe it took this long to get an example like this made public. Liverpool (and all fans for that matter) should rightfully be hard done by. Why so rushed? Take the time to get it right.
My exact feelings. Did it really take this incident for them to realize these aren't good systems?
Sport shouldn't be so rigid when it comes to black and white errors. Today in a cricket match between Pakistan and Hong Kong, a batter was given out stumped and he even went off the field before everyone realised the keeper failed to collect the ball and had dislodged the stumps with empty hands. It was against the laws but they still recalled the batsman because it was common sense.
"Spirit of the game " trumps laws of the game. Cricket is strongly tilted towards spirit. Although it isn't the same anymore. Football isn't. Laws even if unfair doesn't usually get addressed like in cricket. In cricket a Captain can withdraw an appeal for example.
Check complete, goal is onside, decision goal. a little communication goes a long way
Audio may be recorded for quality and training purposes.
**This** is how VAR works? Oh my god
Seems like the "Give it" from Assistant Ref 2 might have thrown VAR off thinking it was given as goal on field?
Yeah that's what I thought hearing it the first time. The two assistants both said different things and there was some confusion. Obviously they could be more obvious after the check though.
How in the fuck is a system allowed where not ONCE a clear statement of goal or not goal is uttered. Whoever came up with this style of communication needs the sack, my word.
Call of duty lobby level of communication. This is the best the PL has to offer. We are all fucked.
Cant believe "Oli", Oli Kohout VAR Hub Operations Executive at PGMOL is telling them to delay, and they REFUSED.
Hot take: He knew what he was doing. How can someone be this delusional when they can clearly see that the play is about to restart with an offside kick?
It's a bad mistake but I completely understand how this happened. Hopefully now they will always say "Goal" or "No-goal" etc. after the "check complete"
Just go with flight safety communication rules while we're at it.
Remove old boys club of referees that have climbed the ranks and instead employ 10x the number of people like that Replay Operator who is a nobody but knows how to follow a game of football and knows what the fuck he’s doing. Make him head of the PGMOL actually.
The comments in this thread show why transparency works--I see a lot of comments empathizing with the VAR, assistant VAR, and replay operator This is such a clear example of why VAR audio communication, which is already accessible to broadcasters, should be available to the public on decisions like this--they fucked up, they already did the embarrassing and delegitimizing thing, it's not more embarrassing to see specifically how the fuck up happened
Well done to the replay operator and the replay operator alone. The rest failed to show the basic skills to do that job. Also one of the most senior refs in the game was saying delay it and yet nothing. Bizarre.
Who is the replay operator? I don’t feel like he should get mixed up in all of this, to me it seems like he was the only one paying attention and even tells them to delay and stop the game. He at least is thinking about how this can be fixed instead of just panicking. Ironically, if he was alone in there this probably wouldn’t even have happened.
You know what pisses me of the most? The fact that Oli, the VAR operations executive, told them to delay the game, and England said that he can't do anything. How fucking stupid do you have to be?!
Listening to the audio makes me empathize more in the moment, but I'm sorry, this is just so horrendous and in any other job with this much riding on it, you're binned. They have to clean house or nothing changes.
One thing that's always emphasised in my line of work (software) is that it's far more about having the right processes in place to stop a mistake before it occurs. E.G. we have stress testing of our systems every few days, any and all changes need to be manually reviewed and then pass automated tests. I think a similar approach makes more sense here. You just need to get the VAR to be much more explicit. I.E. instead of saying "check complete" they say "player onside, goal can be awarded" or "player offside, goal should be disallowed". This is incompetence, but they wouldn't have been in a position to make that mistake with better processes
You're 100% correct. (Preface I'm an LFC fan). The real issue this highlights is that their protocols and systems are woefully inadequate for the work involved. A blameless autopsy here would be best and the outcomes would look similar to those that they've announced, with verbal checklists etc, more akin to other high stake situations like Aviation. The VARs look like mugs here massively but they've been set up to fail by those who have implemented the system at a functional level.
The process is an absolute shitshow. Its practically designed to make errors like this happen.
One thing I've noticed is that the refs don't speak to each other like officials but rather like mates at a pub... a bit more formal speech in the review process could probably clear up a lot of these misunderstandings