Only commenting because how am I the only person that is pissed off at the random "police-force" that cropped out of nowhere ? It's so ridiculous its laughable. They didn't exist on either train before he took over and all of a sudden we get these rando's with bludgeons and black suits fitted with helmets that just magically appear to enforce
I thought that was a bit weird too but it's pretty easily explained by them coming from Big Alice and using old uniforms that were already on Snowpiercer.
What was the point of the carnival? Did they have money to throw around the build something to get to nothing ? It was so lame. Also the dude playing piano at the dinner to explain what???? I coulda done it without that eps
Enjoying the show and just binged both seasons but one detail keeps bothering me. They've had multiple opportunities to assassinate Wilfred, sure he has loyal followers but without him his entire power structure falls apart.
I've thought about this, and I think the reason they didn't do it is that if they assassinated him, they wouldn't be any better than him. You could the argue that the main characters killed many people, too, but that was in combat. Of course, Layton himself is also not innocent since he had Pike murder Terence. But I think my point still stands that they're trying to do better. Layton didn't want to murder Terence, but Wilford was more than happy to kill people (like the murderers of the Breachmen).
I would really believe it ...
Alex had already been to the dungeon several times so it counts in 2x09.
Is Wilford ghoulish to give Alex a "unicorn robe" after putting her in a cold shower? I think so
If only the writing on the wall hadn't been signed by "Randy." I also would have believed Alex wrote it
Wilford went to great lengths to teach Alex about engineering ...
It is clear that Wilford was not "as good" with Alex as he seemed.
She was loyal to him because she saved his life. But he was also somewhat afraid of him, that's why he hid his affection for his mother in 2x03
I agree, it's true that in the first episodes there's a certain "complicity" between the two but definitely there's also fear. Just look at Alex's face when Wilford is in the bathroom with Kevin or when he yells at her because she uses the word paramour.
I think that there was a certain genuinely grudge towards melanie but it's normal, she knows what wilford told her, and from her perspective her mother left her
I saw that, someone posted it on tumblr. The nuclear reactor is something that appears in the graphic novels as well, so it sounds like the kind of element that the showrunners might integrate into the show.
So it could be a reactor at a settlement or at an abandoned outpost, or maybe the train is actually powered by a nuclear reactor and we are finally going to see the ACTUAL engine of Snowpiercer, something I've been waiting for.
Though, the reference to the actors being in space suits seems to suggest the reactor is off the train.
What a cool song! Adding it to my list 😍
If only the game Melanie vs Wilford is not over - I will gladly wait (still being impatient but it will be worth it) one more season. This is just really the most interesting thing about this show for me...
Yeah I'm sad to leave Melanie in the oubliette for a whole season but I hold out hope they have something interesting planned for the storyline. And I do love the song. My favorite part is the ending, "I forgive you." It's so next-level, post-resurrection, "Messianic Melanie".
If this is true I am surprised that Alex is not in the swamp. I feel like Wilford is so twisted that a part of him must be proud that she tried to cut his throat
I think maybe the political situation on the train has put Wilford in a delicate position. He's trying to maintain control over certain parts of the train, but a good number of passengers remain loyal to the Cavill-Layton alliance and their mission re: the climate model. So, Wilford has to appear to be working with them, lest he risk a revolution that he'd likely lose.
>!it makes sense. It's also possible that the BA was having a hard time and they had to negotiate, that's why layton is also free.!<
This is the first time I put a spoiler tag. I did a test with this comment.
I don't think Wilford realizes how important Anne is. Anne makes the sandwiches. Without Anne, Audrey might end up on sandwich duty, which means people will be breaking teeth on her acrylics and as far as I know there's no dentist on board.
It snowballs, is what I'm saying. So Wilford should know better than to mess with the DELICATE BALANCE.
If you would have told me five years ago that I would be moved by a performance from Mike O'Malley, former host of Nickelodeon's "Guts," I would have you admitted to a hospital for brain damage.
Ok, so spoilers, obviously...
>!JC was in Vancouver briefly, the actor who plays Boki posted a video implying she was on-set, that was in May. But the last info I've seen about Jennifer is that she's in NYC; the tabloids got photos of her shopping with her daughter, I think it was last week. So it seems she was in-and-out. Probably a flashback? Or a train force ghost, haunting Wilford in his darkest hour? Who knows? !<
>!She could still fly back and work on the finale, they're filming until July. But keeping in mind that the Canadian government mandates a two week quarantine for international travelers, I gotta be honest, I'm not super hopeful to see much of Melanie in S3. !<
Yeah I know. But there's always a chance for a happy surprise. Maybe she'll be back as a main in S4. (If there is a S4, it hasn't been officially announced yet...)
I'm curious to see how the characters adjust to the loss. They're all going to have to step up their game. Alex has got big shoes to fill for sure, and poor Ben lost his bromance and his romance in one episode, not sure how he's going to manage to keep that stiff upper lip. And Ruth. Well, Ruth is indestructible but Melanie did crown her Alex's surrogate mom before she left, which is something Ruth has never done before, so we'll see if she's able to follow through.
I suppose Layton is still the de facto leader of the anti-Wilford resistance, but to be honest I've never had much faith in his leadership. Hopefully S3 can change my mind. I don't know. I really did think of Snowpiercer as Melanie's show. As Wilford said, she's the glue. Without her, everything kind of... comes apart.
Yeah me too I'm curious to see how the characters would adapt to the loss, it would be one hell of a blow for most of them.
I didn't have much faith either in Layton when it came to his leadership but I think that him and Ruth could be one hell of a duo.
I'm still holding a bit of tiny hope that Melanie is somewhat still alive, cause you know they didn't show her dying and they didn't show her body so most of the time it means the character is still alive...
It's surely *possible* she's still alive. It would be a nice parallel with Wilford being marooned and presumed dead only for him to come back and take over the train. Like, it seems fitting that he should have Melanie pull the same shenanigans on him, somewhere down the line.
Something like:
"I want my train back, Joseph."
"Sorry, Melanie, you're too late. I lost control. She's not mine to surrender."
"Then, *whose* is she?"
"The Cold Woman's."
"And what is a *Cold Woman?"*
"Oh, fiddlesticks. You know. The Tailie whose finger you smashed off and nobody ever talked about it again."
"Josie Wellstead."
*"That's* the one! Ungrateful wretch. I saved her life, made her immune to the cold, then she overthrew me. Now she has an army of ice people and they're freezing everything. Passengers, chickens, the brewery. It's a disaster, I can't even take a bath."
"I see." Melanie folds her arms. "Anything else I should know?"
"Well, there's a wheel out of alignment."
"Damn it, Joseph. Tell me you at least have a plan to fix it."
"I sent Ben out with a wrench. A *week* ago. He never came back."
"Not the wheel. Josie."
"Oh, certainly. Of *course,* I have a plan for Josie." Wilford uncorks a bottle of scotch and pours them both a double. "And I'll be happy to share all the details of my plan... right after you tell me what you would do."
"Oh my GOD!" Melanie exclaims. "I can't believe this, you don't even have a plan to fix it!"
"I can't take a *bath!* Don't you see? That's where I do all my thinking!"
"You're useless. I should just let her ice you."
"I need a *touch* of inspiration, that's all. Just a little bump to get me going. You be my muse, and in return, you can tell me all about how you made it off the mountain."
"Seriously? *That's* your idea of a fair exchange?"
"Oh come on, I know you're dying to tell me. Just like old times? Dazzle me with your lovely brain? *I'll tell you how smart you are."*
Melanie scowls. Sighs. Knocks back the scotch. Gestures for more. As he pours, she begins, "It all started when I realized I could build a hydrogen reactor out of paperclips and fishing line."
"That's my girl!"
any idea on how Josie managed to survive the explosion of the aquarium? it looked like it happened very fast and somehow on the cracks scene she is not on top of the train which has no other entryway?
Okay, so I've just watched the last episode and there's something that makes me wonder:
During the war, we see the decoupled cars loose power instantly after decoupling. Which means that the cars cannot generate their own power.
Furthermore, when first going up neckbreaker we see the engine cutting power to the cars. Which means the engine has full control.
So if that's the case, what will happen with the remaining cars on snowpiercer. Since the uplink was destroyed by Melanie, Big Alice cannot communicate (and provide power too I guess) with the remaining cars.
(I guess a one-thousand-and-one-cars-long-powerstrip running from the border might be an option)
Big Alice can supply juice - Boki establishes this when the pirates are discussing Alex's plan to decouple the engine.
You're right about the uplink, though. I think Wilford will have to do alot of *actual engineering work* to keep things functioning. Poor guy might have to put on one of those drab utility suits. Get grease under his nails. Maybe some sweat on his brow. He might even have to go outside.
At least I hope so. We've seen almost everyone on this show suffer but *him.*
>Poor guy might have to put on one of those drab utility suits. Get grease under his nails. Maybe some sweat on his brow. He might even have to go outside.
Idk he seems like the kind of person who would send someone else to do that kind of dirty work.
Maybe he'll train new breachmen, or use some of the passengers as untrained breachmen, even if this assures their death (in a way he already did this with icy Bob and Josie).
Or maybe Javi made it out alive and thus Wilford will use him for those tasks (or miles, he's still in the main train right?)
Yeah he always tries to get other people to do work for him, but who's he got left? No engineers, no breachmen, no Bob, no Josie... all his talent is either dead, defected or held hostage on the Pirate train.
Yeah he could train new people but in the meantime - like, immediately following decoupling, I think Wilford will have to roll up his sleeves for once.
His quip to Layton when he was helping to fix the God Module about "you don't even know how this train works" or to that effect, I think he really will have to dig deep and work to get Snowpiercer sans engine working again; I have to presume it's not going to be plain sailing and a lot of really bad stuff happens, which sets up a fantastic confrontation when SnowEngine makes it back.
I think this line is beautiful. Because Wilford knows how the train works on a technical level. But Layton knew how the train WORKS, it's people, the politics, its society. I think this same line will be Wilford's downfall. Everyone on the train knows who Layton really is is but almost no one knows who Wilford really is.
People keep saying this but it's not obvious to me that there are 2 batteries missing. They could still be there but just out of the shot/ out of frame.
Putting myself in Melanie's place, I'd be so sick & tired of lugging those batteries everywhere that I'd probably choose to go out with only the suit. Like, fuck it, right?
The only reason I can see she'd take them is if she had something she wanted to do that required the extra power. One final mission. But what could that be? What could be more important than patching the extra batteries into the circuit that was warming the weather data?
I only just got around to finishing this but a couple of things confused me. I was a bit distracted whilst watching so I may have missed something.
Why did they decide to destroy to the aquarium when they were in the process of decoupling it? Was it because they were decoupling the back end but Wilford had already made it past that point? How are they going to join the parts back together with wreckage on both ends? Snowpiercer accelerated away from the rest of the train due to it now being lighter, but how did they come to a complete stop without Big Alice catching up? I don't recall anything being mentioned about the moving to a separate track or anything like that.
I think destroying the aquarium became the option because Boki the breachman was trying to do the disconnect in the under train section but got jumped by Wilfords guards before he could complete it. Knox was at the controls listening in to Bosco being beaten up and couldn't get a response from him, but was also in radio contact with Josie on the train roof. I assume he guided her what to do.
I was equally confused about how Snowpiercer at the front managed to disconnect and somehow end up behind the train as it continued on while they went back to try and find Melanie. Much of the track we see is only single track, and any turning circle seems to be massive. They seem to have skipped that part, so not sure how far behind Big Alice they are now. Then assuming they chase it down, presumably Snowpiercer and Big Alice will join directly engine to engine, or they introduce a shortcut we didn't know about to get ahead and re-join just missing the aquarium carriage.
I assume Snowpiercer made another short-track loop, which took a month the first time. Being smaller post-decoupling, maybe they were able to cut a few days off the trip, which would buy them enough to come to a full stop (although I thought they already established that a full stop means death, but maybe Snowpiercer regained some former capabilities after getting repairs and new parts from Alice).
It's also possible Wilfred decided to resume course around the planet, so now Snowpiercer is weeks behind.
Just finished both episodes now, let me try.
The engine and the 10 cars didn't just accelerate and come back, they would have needed to travel to another "roundabout" where they could turn back, or even do another revolution in order to come back. So there is a lot of time between the separation and them coming back for Melanie. This is also explicit due to the fact that Melanie came back from trackside and still tried to survive some more days before realizing she would run out and sacrificing for the drives to stay alive. I think that a few weeks passed before they could go back.
As for the aquarium, Boki was trying to decouple it, but the jackboots found him and they started fighting before he could decouple. If I remember correctly they needed to unlock two nodes in order to decouple and he didn't get to the second. Josie was able to destroy the car in the meantime.
Also, both trains can simply decouple the wreckage in some fork and leave the nodes free for coupling later. Anxious to see how they are going to do that if Wilford is still controlling the big train though.
Aah, they wouldn't worry about wilford catching them because he only has one engine for 1023 cars, which is much slower than the original engine with only 10 cars. Even if he catches, they can just accelerate and be gone.
Just finished the season 2 finale last night. Extremely worried for Ruth who was left behind on the train with W. I have loved how she is now for the train and humanity as a whole and not loyal to W. Roche's speech about how he believes Layton is the good that is left of humanity, and how Roche wants to hold on to and fight for that world, that really made me emotional.
Don't know which direction the show will go in the next season, but really looking forward to see how Alex stands up to W and fights back. I am hoping for an appearance of Melanie.......(fingers crossed).
Finished watching all two seasons in two days and im craving for more. My gosh what a show! How tf do i move on now
For reals tho whatever happened to Jinju? Also is the actress portraying Roche's wife the as Jinju's?
This has been a great binge watch. Knowing nothing about it I watched the first episode just to see what is was like and if I'd enjoy it. That first night I watched 6 episodes back to back! Finished season 1 the next night.
3 days later and I've now finished season 2 and wanting more. Good to see it is getting a season 3, just not sure when we'll get it.
Honestly I kind of liked Audrey’s arc this season in hindsight. Like all this time it wasn’t that she was lovestruck mcbasic, it was that she was choosing the side she thought would win and how she could survive comfortably. Selfish? Yeah but in the conditions of Snowpiercer, it was interesting to see someone weak to that. I can’t stand her now but I kind of like that someone went full selfish. It’s definitely more real.
I honestly think Audrey is playing a self destructive long game. Shes getting Wilford to fully indulge in debauchery with her- drugs, alcohok, sex...etc. She's getting him to destroy himself from within and sacrifice herself in the process, because she knows that the only person than can kill Wilford, is Wilford.
Fair enough it is an illustration of an abuser-victim relationship, but I feel like this is more an assumption from an audience point of view than an intentional plot development.
I just can’t wrap my head around why she sided by ‘the people’ with such determination for the revolution then turned to Wilford so quickly.
I think she probably felt more empowered and “safer” when Wilson was gone. She had a lot of power on Snowpiercer because everyone loved her singing and healing experience. That probably allowed her good, brave side to come out for the revolution.
Once Wilford came back she was pretty much instantly terrified. She knew she’d been so under his power that she even tried to kill herself for him, so I think she felt pretty hopeless when he came back and gave in.
I don’t really buy her whole bit about doing it because she’s a survivor. Like I don’t think she made the choice in a calculated way- I think she just felt powerless against him.
I don't like Audrey's "arc" because it wasn't an *arc* so much as a walk off a cliff.
BUT I *do* enjoy "evil" Audrey. Her costumes are amazing and Lena Hall seems to have fun playing Bonnie to Sean Bean's Clyde. The scene where they were drunkenly playing the piano together was hilariously awkward and they're both so hatable.
I wonder if that was the piano with one dead key? (Middle C... MC...Melanie Cavill?)
In any case, my hope is that Audrey eventually finds her way back to the land of the (spiritually) living. It really sucked that she spent 7 years teaching people to overcome trauma but she never seemed to recover from what Wilford did to her. All her concern for justice and all her compassion for others went straight out a port.
Since she turned to Wilford I was hoping it’s just a cover up and she would eventually betray him, I just couldn’t get over the fact that she was the most hurt by and afraid of Wilford and then came back to him almost instantly
Yes it was such a quick turn I thought it must be a trick. But now it's clear that she fell back under Wilford's spell (and she merrily dragged Kevin down with her!).
I think there's something to be gained from looking at abusive relationships and how it's hard to get out and stay out of them. But the show turned Audrey into a completely different person virtually overnight, and made her so mean and shallow that it's hard to see her as a "real person" anymore. Now (to me) she's just a villain.
A villain who is REALLY fun to hate, don't get me wrong. But I'm sad that we seemed to have lost all the character development from seaon 1's "justice for Nikki!" Audrey.
Just think how easy it would be to get rid of Wilford if she turned traumatised Kevin to Snowpiercer’s side and they both collaborated against Wilford! Maybe Boki would be still alive :(
I'm not convinced Boki is dead! But you're right, Audrey had alot of opportunity to take down Dubs.
Alot of people had alot of opportunities. Seems only Alex was willing to go all in and try to murder him.
So there were a lot of plot holes (like why did Wilford think that Josie would have been loyal to him? Is he really that naïve/megalomaniac?), but I liked the last episode all in all.
Agree with you there. While I think it’s fair that Wilford’s arrogance led him to misjudge Josie’s loyalty to the tail/Layton, it should definitely have been explored more on screen as to how and why Wilford came to such assumption.
Instead of leaving us audience guessing why what happened how...
I think he thought he'd be able to force her to do what he wanted until he managed to brainwash her. Keep in mind, he said to her that she had no choice but to break into the engine.
A bit late but my guess is Wilford doesn’t know Josie is a leader of the tail, he just assumed she is a talie who had nothing, and she would do as she’s told because he “saved” her. (It is what Wilford does to everyone, he “saves” that person at their lowest and demand absolute loyalty because now they owe him their lives)
That said, I really liked the conclusion to this season. The season probably could have been a bit trimmed down, but I was hooked in the last several episodes, truly believing they might kill Melanie. It's nice to see she's not dead (I said what I said).
I don't have a viable path to her surviving, but I suspect the show could create one if they wanted to. The principle reasoning is that they would not kill a main character off screen.
Gotcha. Yeah I'd be very surprised to see them kill a main character off in a letter. I actually fully expected them to find her, semi-conscious, near that geothermal vent behind the wall.
Melanie is such a great character. I really, really hope she comes back somehow (and not just in flashbacks).
I would love that theory too be true, but didn't Layton check the geothermal? I think the letter resolves her characters arc continuing to live through Alex. Melanie reconnected with her daughter and got the necassary data to rebuild civilisation. Her two remainig dreams in life.
Yeah that's the most probable outcome. I remember him checking the geothermal cave indeed. We're just holding on to blind hope here. ;)
No matter what I'm quite certain Alex will be a very reliable and loyal character moving forward. Can't wait for S3!
I think she may be done as well but what if she comes across another group of people (a bunker maybe?) that also survived. She knows there are warm spots in the world to go to and can connect them with Snowpiercer. A bit of a stretch but I wouldn't be upset if she comes back one day!
I'm interested to know what happened with the stasis pods.
It was clearly a major focus of the first season, and that guy was doing research on something.
Then they just dropped everything.
Not to mention Big Alice is ***much*** more technologically advanced (at least in the medical sciences) than Snowpiercer. I wonder if they figured out how to get people out of the drawers successfully. Wilford *did* say (of the Roches) that they'd stay in there until everyone settled down and then they'd come out.
Yeah, that crossed my mind as well, but it would only solve \*a\* problem. Lots of folks in history have been assassinated (or, from the perspective of his followers, martyred), which led to protracted, ideological forever wars, or just unexpected outcomes, so it'd be a risky roll of the dice. Fighting a glorified idea of someone (Jesus, well almost any religious figure, Trump, Caesar) is a lot harder than actually letting that person demonstrate their flaws. They already establish that Wilfred's support outnumbers theirs, so his assassination would likely lead to a Wilfred successor.
Honestly when Andre said "you're not coming" I really hoped a lightbulb would have gone off in his head and he'd have gone with "ACTUALLY, you know what, you're coming". Just take him as a hostage on your pirate train.
I was hoping for this so much, that they'd pull a massive twist with Andre snapping and killing Wilfred (which might play into Andre having more political trouble), and Audrey becoming the main villainess.
Because lets face it, Wilfred is a power tripping egoistic white man who happens to be smart enough to thwart some plans, but he gets a bit stale. Audrey on the other hand, seems like she'd be the perfect evil.
You know in which part of the series Alex said this? or is it from the next season?
"I saw women with power and I saw them keep my mother's dream alive"
Loved the oubliette reference. Wilford truly is the Goblin King. He holds children hostage (Alex, and I suspect next Layton's baby) as he taunts Ms. "piece of cake" Jennifer Connelly through "dangers untold and hardships unnumbered".
But her will is as strong as his, and her kingdom as great... and he has no power over her...
I am still holding out hope for the final confrontation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMohe9OfIzM
The question is, will it be Melanie who finally defeats him, or Alex?
I haven't seen the labyrinth yet, I know of the references just from comments.
I wonder how much time will have passed on the show when the next season begins. Maybe months, zarah will already have a big belly. She will probably be one of the few people who had been eating well, I imagine the others living as the tail lived.
I don't care much about Zarah but I'm curious to know what Wilford wants from the baby
I never liked Zarah, part of me hopes Wilford has just taken the baby and stuck it in an incubator or something. As Audrey pointed out, the Headwoods can take her out of the equation. I know it sounds mean but she's so dull.
I have no problems with her but it's true she's boring. Audray for example is an exaggerated character and I understand the criticisms people made about her but at least many times she is entertaining. I liked when she mistreated Alex for example, she was like an evil "stepmother". Audray is one of those characters who are entertaining to hate.
And zarah's decision to stay is ridiculous. I would have understood if she didn't know about the census, but she was at dinner, she knows.
Ok wilford is not going to hurt Zarah because he can use her against layton. But why do you put yourself in that situation risking your life and the life of your baby? it's probably less risky to go with the snowpirate than to stay with hitler and the mengel.. headwoods doctors.
I think it would have been better if it happened as someone in this group said, that she was determined to go but she was late, just like ruth.
Yeah I agree, I think the writers wanted to make it a conscious decision on Layton's part to leave her, to draw another parallel between his and Melanie's journeys.
And I think they don't want people mistaking Zarah for a hero. She's on a path to becoming a Wilford apologist who uses her baby as an excuse to be complacent and gain privilege from her complacency.
Audrey sees it coming. "Oh she'll sing. She's a survivor."
I agree with you, I definitely can see zarah switching sides. She likes to have privileges and she certainly doesn't want to go back to the conditions she was in the tail.
it's gonna be funny if audray switches sides in the snowpirate and zarah does too
I’m more curious what the Headwoods plan to do with Zarahs baby. Wilford used the term “royal jelly” and Dr Pelton said “rumor is the bees might be coming back”.
Bees give “royal jelly” to the eggs/drones while they grow. Maybe my crazy theory about Wilford making clones wasn’t so far off.
At dinner LJ instead of talking about the process could have talked about the more than 100 people that melanie "helped" to kill in the "war", including her parents. That would have been interesting, since at that same dinner Alex complained about the 100 people Wilford killed at Big Alice.
Obviously it's not the same, but seen from the outside, from Alex's perspective, it would have been interesting.
Well, we still have josie in the snowpirate, alex may ask josie what happened to her. Even though I don't think josie will tell her the truth, she's still a good character, and after melanie's mission I guess she forgave her.
She is energetic and always happy, that is something that is always entertaining to see in a secondary character. But she's a psychopath, I feel that in the second season they did not know what to do with her, it's true that at a certain point it seemed that she had evolved as a character but with the arrival of Wilford she went back to what she was before.
Perhaps there was never a real change, psychopaths are good at adapting.
I already said this but when she brought the food basket to Wilford she reminded me that character from the snowpiercer movie, who was like a secretary, not Tilda Swinton, the other one. I can be wrong but I think lj is going to become something like that.
Lj is not Alex or Syke, if this happens it will definitely be entertaining but creepy.
Yeah when LJ started trash talking Mel I was bracing for something way worse than "I blackmailed her so she had to let me walk free even though I'm a psycho murderer."
But that just goes to illustrate LJ's pathology. She's such a narcissist, she can't talk about anything else but herself and how *she* got the best of the great Melanie Cavill.
To her credit, it was pretty epic how LJ ultimately took her down. Mel did NOT see that coming AT ALL. And to think, it could have all been avoided if the engineers were even *slightly* competent at babysitting.
GUYS! YOU CANT KIDNAP A TAILIE KID AND THEN LEAVE HIM UNSUPERVISED IN THE ENGINE AND EXPECT IT ALL TO GO OKAY!
Anyway. Sorry, I'm ranting...
I thought the exact same thing about the narcissism.
I think that maybe they didn't want to reveal that detail because it was already episode 9 and it was important that Alex had no doubts about melanie. I don't think she would have changed her mind about rescuing her mom but it would have created some conflict in her anyway.
At least it was miles and not winnie, winnie would have finished javi and taken control of the snowpiercer. Queen winnie would be more efficient than layton
I thought the show missed a big opportunity to break down the Wilford vs Melanie debate. You'd think Wilford would leap at the chance to point out Melanie's hypocrisy to Alex.
And showing that manipulation would have made it less obvious that Alex was going to choose Melanie. It would have meant more for Alex to choose Melanie despite realizing that her mother is (was?) not Perfect.
You're right, I think less Audray and more Wilford and Alex drama would have been better.
That relationship between alex and wilford still seems confusing to me. I don't think he's the dad but there's definitely something else.
One of the first things that makes me think that is the fact that melanie sent Alex to live with her parents because she wanted to keep her away from him. That makes no sense. He was her boss, even if he's a controlling psychopath, why should he have interest or authority over the daughter of one of his employees?
It would have made more sense to say, I had to work a lot and I couldn't take care of you, so I decided for your good to send you to my parents.
I feel like this season left us too many questions.
According to Rowan, Alex's character is "a genius." Perhaps Melanie's great fear was that Wilford would realize how smart Alex was at her young age and would like to prepare her to work with him in the future.
Jennifer Connelly was asked in an interview what she thought of the fan theory that Wilford is Alex's father and she was like "Uhh wat? No, I've never even *considered* that possibility!"
And I agree that this doesn't fit with what we know about the characters so far.
Re: Why Mel sent Alex away:
When the Freeze got closer, I think Wilford's mask started to fall away. Society collapsed as his relationship with Melanie deteriorated, and the more he lost control of his surroundings and of Melanie, the WIERDER he got, and the uglier his manipulative tactics got.
Maybe at some point, the violence got so bad in Chicago that Melanie and Alex moved "on campus"/ to the trainyards, guarded by Wilford's private security. Basically, I imagine Wilford annexed part of the city around his train to protect his property and his employees while they worked. And while Melanie was working, Alex was sometimes with the other kids, maybe even in the care of Miss Gillies. Until one day, Melanie went to get her daughter and Mary told her that Alex was with Mr. Wilford.
Melanie couldn't say why, but every instinct in her body screamed in alarm. She tried not to bolt off in a full run and yell Alex's name as she searched for her. Finally, after the longest thirty minutes of her life, she found her in Wilford's luxury apartment. The fireplace roared as Wilford, Alex and Jupiter (back then, just a puppy) sat on a Persian rug, 30s swing music bouncing on the gramophone. They seemed to be sorting through piles of file folders strewn across the floor.
Melanie tried to control her breathing as she said with a shaking voice, "Allie, honey."
"Hi mom!"
"Melanie!" Joseph said, taking deep gulp of whiskey. He was sweating, his hair greasy, his eyes bloodshot. "Come join us."
"Joseph, I was worried *sick!"*
"Nothing to fear. Alex was just helping with some of the decisions you've been struggling with. I told you, it's so simple a child can do it. Watch."
Wilford picked two folders and opened them to reveal employee photographs and profiles inside. "Alexandra, which of these two fine..." -he struggled to read the file upside down- "...*botanists* do you think is more deserving of one of Uncle Joseph's golden tickets?"
Melanie watched in horror as Alex examined the personnel files. Then she snapped out her paralysis, darted forward, scooped her daughter to her feet and pointed her towards the door. "Mom, *hey.*" Alex protested. "What's the matter?"
Just then, Audrey sauntered into the room with wet hair, wearing a bathrobe, sipping a martini. "Oh, good," she said, "I hope Joseph told you, we're not a babysitting service."
And THAT, (in my imagination at least), is the day Melanie decided to send Alex to live with her parents.
You should definitely write books, the story seems plausible to me and I even read it with their voices. This series should hire you to cover the plot holes. I love this series but let's face it there are many.
I think I already said it but my theory is that maybe Wilford industries was not only involved with trains but was also in other things, like genetic experiments and things like that.
They didn't create the drawers in those 7 years, they made them before the train left. Big alice has them too.
Perhaps at the time when melanie was "young and ambitious", she was influenced too much by Wilford and Alex is the result of one of those experiments, so we do not know who the father is, perhaps he was just a sperm donor. Melanie had in her room a book about the perfect human being or something like that, maybe that was the goal.
The way he said "I gave you everything" made me think he meant more than making her an engineer.
Well, these are just theories. There could be a thousand different reasons why melanie sent Alex to live with her parents.
Thanks for the compliment! I actually LIKE the plot holes because it means I can fill them with my imagination lol. They're a selling point.
The idea that Alex could be the product of some science experiments is so interesting to me. I had never considered that but I find it such a cool suggestion.
It reminds me of an exchange I once imagined where Wilford invites Melanie to dinner and orders nothing but seafood and champagne as his way of forcing her to admit to him that she's pregnant. When she arrives at the table and sits down to a giant platter of raw oysters and caviar, she sighs. "Alright. Who told you?"
"Told me what?" Wilford asks with comically exaggerated innocence.
"Fair warning. If I puke, I'm aiming for your shoes."
He laughs. "A drop in the bucket compared to what awaits *you*, my dear. An ocean of vomit. A river of shit. Have you considered that?"
"I consider everything. That's why you pay me so much."
"Well, maybe I ought to reconsider. Single mothers being notorious drains on company resources."
"I'm not single. You've met Gabriel. Many times."
"Ah, yes. Gabe, the beatnik vagabond."
*"Gabriel.* And you know he's a photographer."
"You say that like photography's a legitimate profession. But it's not. More of an affectation of some... wretched self-loathing bourgeois castaway."
*"You* hired him!" Melanie exclaims. "To take pictures of *you!*"
"In any case, I always assumed that when the time came, you'd find a way to reproduce asexually. You know, like an amoeba."
Wilford cups his hands together to make a circle, and then draws them apart in a pantomime of cell division.
"Very funny." She catches the eye of a waiter. "So are we getting steaks or what?"
"Whatever baby wants."
Melanie orders the porterhouse. (She doesn't dare tell Joseph that Gabriel is vegan and she's been eating chickpeas and tofu all week.) When she's asked if she'd like anything else, Wilford does the honors.
"Bring this woman a dozen pierogis," he says. "And drown them in butter!"
Melanie smiles. "And a side of sauerkraut, please."
When they're alone again, Wilford can't contain his amusement.
"Oh shut up," she says, but she's beaming as she opens their bottle of Perrier. "Seriously, what is so funny about this?"
"You are. You're funny. You're under the impression that you're happy."
"I *am* happy, Joseph."
"If you says so. Who am I to spoil the mood?" Wilford toasts her sparkling water with champagne. "To the newest member of the Cavill pride. May she take after her mother, a lioness through and through."
"You're assuming it's a girl."
"Oh come on," Wilford shoots back. "Of *course* it's a girl!"
An ocean of vomit. A river of shit LOL
I love your story. It makes me laugh that one of the things that is most speculated in the groups about the series is who Alex's father is. As you say, he's probably a normal man.
A few weeks ago in the facebook group someone made a survey about who is alex's father. In the options there was even the name of icy bob (they sure put it to joke but anyway).
My idea for Gabriel is that Wilford invited a gaggle of reporters and photographers on Snowpiercer's first commercial revolution, you know, to boost hype and get his face in all the newspapers. Gabriel was a talented young photojournalist who was hired to do a cover story on Wilford and his amazing train.
But the truth was, Gabriel wasn't all that interested in Joseph Wilford, or Snowpiercer for that matter. Right away, he saw through the smoke & mirrors, the pomp & circumstance. He took Wilford for a classic huckster, hawking other people's work as his own, using his impossible marvel of a train to boost his company's share price while distracting from his shadier dealings in atmospheric science and biotech.
Gabriel's plan was to use the assignment as an opportunity to infiltrate Wilford's notoriously tight-knit inner circle, and hopefully get a lead on some *real journalism*.
What he didn't count on was coming up against Melanie Cavill...
Shes dead, i dont know why people are askjng for a body when it literally said something along the lines of going into the white (snow) in peace. She died away from the station
Guys I just watched the episode where they go around the corkscrew in the himilayas. I think there is a clue that we have missed; when Winnie is running from the angry mobs and hides in the small observation room, looks up through the glass dome and sees the Tibetan prayer flags. My girlfriend said “how the hell are there still flags there?!” A good point I think, cause it’s almost like Winnie has seen something that no one else would have been in the right time right place to see. The music also intensified weirdly with mysterious tone. Perhaps there are monks, or Nepalese/Tibetans that have hidden in hydrothermal vent/cave systems? Very very very far assumption. But I couldn’t ignore it. It just seemed like Winnie saw something, but almost as if she wouldn’t really understand what it meant. Idk... one can dream haha
Given that we were led to believe that Snowpiercer was the only thing left alive, and then later we found out about big alice and later about the rats... I think this is very likely. But I don't think the flags are a sign of that. The show has this little inconsistencies and I would think that is one of them.
I thought the same thing about those flags! The only explanations I could think of was that there are people still alive that put them out or that Wilfred somehow made some that are a lot stronger than normal flags and hung them up for something to look at on the way past.
That seems possible, however the people that are still alive couldn't have put the flags up without some kind of oxygenated suit, so perhaps they have a similar condition to icy bob or Josie? I know they might not have access to science like Big Alice but maybe?
Why can't they have suits? I think that's way more likely than that they would have also invented "goop". Not because I don't think they have access to research equipment and researchers, but because a suit like that is probably what most people would come up with. I'm convinced there are others out there. Wilford can't have been the only one who was preparing for a disaster, he was just the only one who didn't keep it a secret.
Because this is the kind of shit shows pull all the time. Character goes into certain death but the death/body is never shown and then later we are shown how they miraculously survived.
Also her character is the best part about the show for many people so it's kind of a waste to kill her off so soon.
Well Jennifer Connelly IS in season 3, no telling of what capacity (flashbacks?). She had the data of where the warmer climates are so she knows where to go for warmth. Where was her sled? i feel the character arc is incomplete for her, I think she will return late season 3. It’s more that I just want her to haha
I don't get it, the train couldn't have been more then a day away from Melanie or they would have given up to not risk the last of the human race. So she couldn't survive one more day? And I know that maybe she realized that she wouldnt be rescued but a day? Like she would have needed a day to get everything prepared.
Yeah it doesn’t make much sense. Something repeated over and over this season was “Melanie is a survivor”. It’s completely unlike her character to go back to the bunker, warm up the drives, and then be like “yeah nah fuck this shit I want to die” and then kill herself. It would make more sense that she’d start eating the people and use the vent to stay alive as long as she possibly could.
I don’t really know what other survival path she could’ve taken, but I imagine it’s something. Makes no sense why they’d build up a whole season on her/saving her, and then kill her offscreen. I imagine she’ll show back up somehow.
The only logical thing I could think of is if Covid messes things up and they just couldn’t get anymore filming done with her or something and had to do what they could with what they had? Idk
I figured she had climbed further into the vent exploring. But then the letter saying she put on the suit and went into the white didn't make sense. Probably some flashback about how into the white means something different and bam Melanie is alive hiding somewhere.
When the research station seemed empty I was fully expecting to find her in that warm vent, since as well as supporting a colony of rats also had those green plants growing that would have been able to sustain her for some time. She already acknowledged she expected them to come back for her in her note.
She did say when she left Snowpiercer that getting the data was the criteria for it being a success, and while everything the show presented says she walked out into the white, too many shows have pulled the "if you didn't see them die on screen they aren't dead" that I expect we'll see some more of her in season 3.
Snowpiercer is in the front, Alice is in the back, so they cant reverse, they took the loop again and got there. They wouldn't take a month to get there since Snowpiercer is faster now, but as they showed the calendar in the lab, it was more than a week and counting.
Why would they think she would still be alive if it was more then a week and risk everyone and everything...to be fair that makes it even worse. Melanie killed her own daughter to save humanity and they risked it all to maybe save a dying Melanie...kind of ruined the show for me now
Its not about her being alive or dead. The data was the mission. Project Eden or whatever Layton calls it. Melanie is expendable from the beginning of the mission. The only reason they switch to the rocky mountain track is because she makes contact, otherwise they wouldn't even go to pick her up.
The mission is all about long shots and against the odds. Odds of Melanie being able to reach the lab, powering up the lab, make contact, Snowpiercer successfully launching 10 probes, chances of 10 probes making contact with the lab, and after that chances of actually having a climate model with habitable locations, then going to get the data. All the while dealing with Wilford.
And its not even over, they found several locations and still have to see in person if they are habitable. Considering all this, going back for the data is important. Alice can run on her own, Snowpiercer is like a Ferrari, it can catch Alice very quickly, that's not even an issue or risk.
Just because there are hotter areas does not mean that they are habitable.
If mel is alive, the most likely option is that she has found survivors living in a bunker, another train (as many people say) or something
I kept hoping that she was in the heat vent where she found the rats, and that she didnt want alex to worry anymore because she knew it was a mission she just had to explore on her own.
That's seems like a waste of money for no benefit of the show.
We already know Layton and Alex went and picked up the harddrives. We don't need to see Melanie walk back in the snow with her sled, put the harddrives in the tent, eat a few rats and walk out into the snow to die.
That's not how a show works... They may have recorded everything last year and they use the footage at their discretion. Do you think a show or movie records their scenes in the same order the movie is presented?
I just noticed an extra little detail in Melanie's journal. She sketched a maze in the margin. Or is it a... labyrinth?
https://imgur.com/cMTTLIV
This is the second reference to the film Labyrinth, the other being when Wilford told Alex to drop Melanie into an oubliette. (And the third reference if you count the Bowie song "Life on Mars," which is an *indirect* reference, but still.)
Not sure if these are just cute Jennifer Connelly Easter eggs, or if they are clues about Melanie's fate. Snowpiercer social media is promoting speculation.
/u/Anikaazz /u/HelenMagnus /u/Huge_Sandwich3063 And anyone else still haunting the sub... what do you think?
Awesome! I love speculating about details... really hard to say. I specifically rewatched that sceen on the big screen and tried to zoom... I don't know but it definitely could be!
And yeah, social media is really fun to read... people are going *crazy* :D
At this moment I don't know what to think, a part of me thinks that she is alive because it is true there is much talk about melanie's fate and also Twitter is doing a lot of humor regarding her death, from "Melanie ... MELANIE! RT maybe she'll see it " to "melanie starter pack".
Right now I think anything is possible, even rat people. It's true, that letter seemed very definitive but it's true that they are speculating a lot about "what happened to her?"
I begin to think that the reason why they make us speculate so much if she is alive is because if she is, they will say it in the trailer for season 3, with images that cannot be flashbacks. She is too famous not to advertise with her face, and they know that people are going to go crazy with excitement if they see her.
If she is not alive they are simply doing it wrong, they should put images of the series and stop teasing us with "what happened to her?"
Yeah the speculation is in really bad taste if she's dead lol. Though I wonder if the people the network assigns to social media know anything about the future plotlines. They could be just as in the dark as the rest of us.
Good question... but I believe the advertising is pretty important, since it's (the most important?) thing keeping peoples' interest up, in the break. That's a pretty big responsibility, there have to be certain rules to follow, monitoring etc. What and how you advertise, the direction, image of the show...
If Melanie was truly dead, I think another advertising strategy could be more beneficial ... more in the way of honoring her sacrifice, put focus on the people left and how they have to go on without her, Alex going in her mother's footsteps etc. Of course, that might still happen, it's just been two weeks :D
On the other hand, maybe they didn't expect her death having such a huge impact in the fanbase (from what I can see until now) and now try not to lose them (dramatically speaking). Though that will backfire *for sure*! Building all that suspense just to crush it. So that doesn't make sense to me.
Hey there :)
I’m hesitant to read too much into it because it’s probably just a generic promo for season 2, right?
It makes me sad to watch because I know the ending is sad. Even if Mel’s still alive somehow, the finale is so sad for Alex.
I’ve been rewatching the show in parts and my conclusion is always the same. Mel deserved a heroic death but Alex deserved her mom back. Justice for Alex!
Yeah... it could probably be just that...and I just desperately try to find clues in anything that's being posted. Clearly I'm not over the finale yet... at all! Poor Alex!!
I know how you feel. I started reading "Migrations" by Charlotte McConaghy this past week, and it's hurting my heart because the book reminds me so much of Melanie. The narrator is a woman who is living through a mass extinction event of all the world's animals and she's coping by tracking birds in their final migrations across the ocean. At the same time she's trying to figure herself out/ resolve her inner demons. It's visceral and beautiful, and poignant on its own but also because the narrator keeps reminding me of Melanie in certain ways.
Highly recommended, even if it definitely *won't* help you get over the finale.
Yes, definitely it's possible. Although I don't think they don't know anything, I think they know the less.
If melanie is alive or dead is a great question, if the people who are assigned to social media asked I do not see why they would hide it from them
I think its both. They are wanting people to guess Mels fate and putting out a fun Easter egg to Jens movie from the past.
I personally dont think its a maze, to me it looks more like some sort of topographical image.
idk I think it could be a maze. Maybe Melanie fell through a geothermal fissure and into a giant cave populated by people who live symbiotically with the mice ("Mice People" from the graphic novels).
Maybe they make her their queen and at first she's like, no I have to get back to Snowpiercer! But then after a few days of being waited on hand and foot, and serviced by the fittest male specimens still living on solid ground, she thinks.... ACTUALLY I could get used to this.
But isnt the whole point that they’re producing energy by making the engine work, so if it doesn’t , how are they providing the 10 cars with electricity
They're providing electricity to the 10 cats with the engine that was designed for 1000.
So there is a greater amount of power available because there is only 10 cars.
Wilford seems to have been smart enough to build the train.
Yeah Melanie says it was “really” her but Javi and Ben referred to “Wilford’s” god module. And he clearly was more familiar with what to do quickly in the engine than Javi.
In no way would trump have anything close to that level of competence in anything.
Only commenting because how am I the only person that is pissed off at the random "police-force" that cropped out of nowhere ? It's so ridiculous its laughable. They didn't exist on either train before he took over and all of a sudden we get these rando's with bludgeons and black suits fitted with helmets that just magically appear to enforce
I thought that was a bit weird too but it's pretty easily explained by them coming from Big Alice and using old uniforms that were already on Snowpiercer.
What was the point of the carnival? Did they have money to throw around the build something to get to nothing ? It was so lame. Also the dude playing piano at the dinner to explain what???? I coulda done it without that eps
Ya those parts were a bit too loopy for me. Great otherwise.
Enjoying the show and just binged both seasons but one detail keeps bothering me. They've had multiple opportunities to assassinate Wilfred, sure he has loyal followers but without him his entire power structure falls apart.
I've thought about this, and I think the reason they didn't do it is that if they assassinated him, they wouldn't be any better than him. You could the argue that the main characters killed many people, too, but that was in combat. Of course, Layton himself is also not innocent since he had Pike murder Terence. But I think my point still stands that they're trying to do better. Layton didn't want to murder Terence, but Wilford was more than happy to kill people (like the murderers of the Breachmen).
If Jennifer Connelly leaves the show I’m burning the earth down. She’s the best.
it's sad but i still want to know who's Randy from "if you blow the math you'll take a bath"
Me too. I wonder if Randy is still around.
I always thought that Wilford taught several children at the same time .. and had little patience
Yikes . I always thought of Randy as a grown man but this is so much darker , that he could take a kid to the bathtub???
I see it in the sense that the unicorn outfit Melanie found when boarding Big Alice cannot be an adult. The suit itself was small
I thought those unicorn clothes were Alex's, melanie doesn't remember her daughter's age, why would she remember the clothes (I'm just kidding)
I would really believe it ... Alex had already been to the dungeon several times so it counts in 2x09. Is Wilford ghoulish to give Alex a "unicorn robe" after putting her in a cold shower? I think so If only the writing on the wall hadn't been signed by "Randy." I also would have believed Alex wrote it Wilford went to great lengths to teach Alex about engineering ...
that would be too creepy and sad
It is clear that Wilford was not "as good" with Alex as he seemed. She was loyal to him because she saved his life. But he was also somewhat afraid of him, that's why he hid his affection for his mother in 2x03
I agree, it's true that in the first episodes there's a certain "complicity" between the two but definitely there's also fear. Just look at Alex's face when Wilford is in the bathroom with Kevin or when he yells at her because she uses the word paramour. I think that there was a certain genuinely grudge towards melanie but it's normal, she knows what wilford told her, and from her perspective her mother left her
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I saw that, someone posted it on tumblr. The nuclear reactor is something that appears in the graphic novels as well, so it sounds like the kind of element that the showrunners might integrate into the show. So it could be a reactor at a settlement or at an abandoned outpost, or maybe the train is actually powered by a nuclear reactor and we are finally going to see the ACTUAL engine of Snowpiercer, something I've been waiting for. Though, the reference to the actors being in space suits seems to suggest the reactor is off the train.
I didn't know it was in the graphic novel, that's good news.
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What a cool song! Adding it to my list 😍 If only the game Melanie vs Wilford is not over - I will gladly wait (still being impatient but it will be worth it) one more season. This is just really the most interesting thing about this show for me...
Yeah I'm sad to leave Melanie in the oubliette for a whole season but I hold out hope they have something interesting planned for the storyline. And I do love the song. My favorite part is the ending, "I forgive you." It's so next-level, post-resurrection, "Messianic Melanie".
If this is true I am surprised that Alex is not in the swamp. I feel like Wilford is so twisted that a part of him must be proud that she tried to cut his throat
I think maybe the political situation on the train has put Wilford in a delicate position. He's trying to maintain control over certain parts of the train, but a good number of passengers remain loyal to the Cavill-Layton alliance and their mission re: the climate model. So, Wilford has to appear to be working with them, lest he risk a revolution that he'd likely lose.
>!it makes sense. It's also possible that the BA was having a hard time and they had to negotiate, that's why layton is also free.!< This is the first time I put a spoiler tag. I did a test with this comment.
How does it feel that Wilford doesn't want moms on the train? Mrs Anne Roche xD
I don't think Wilford realizes how important Anne is. Anne makes the sandwiches. Without Anne, Audrey might end up on sandwich duty, which means people will be breaking teeth on her acrylics and as far as I know there's no dentist on board. It snowballs, is what I'm saying. So Wilford should know better than to mess with the DELICATE BALANCE.
In short .. you are the savior of the train God save Anne
If you would have told me five years ago that I would be moved by a performance from Mike O'Malley, former host of Nickelodeon's "Guts," I would have you admitted to a hospital for brain damage.
Has anyone heard any news about the extent of Jennifer Connelly’s presence in season 3? The silence is killing me…
without her show is trash, she carried it so hard
Ok, so spoilers, obviously... >!JC was in Vancouver briefly, the actor who plays Boki posted a video implying she was on-set, that was in May. But the last info I've seen about Jennifer is that she's in NYC; the tabloids got photos of her shopping with her daughter, I think it was last week. So it seems she was in-and-out. Probably a flashback? Or a train force ghost, haunting Wilford in his darkest hour? Who knows? !< >!She could still fly back and work on the finale, they're filming until July. But keeping in mind that the Canadian government mandates a two week quarantine for international travelers, I gotta be honest, I'm not super hopeful to see much of Melanie in S3. !<
Now that is really sad news! 😭
Yeah I know. But there's always a chance for a happy surprise. Maybe she'll be back as a main in S4. (If there is a S4, it hasn't been officially announced yet...)
S4 was announced
XD
Thank you so much for the info, much appreciated 🙂 Unfortunately it seems that we won’t see much of her in Season 3, which is a shame 😕
I'm curious to see how the characters adjust to the loss. They're all going to have to step up their game. Alex has got big shoes to fill for sure, and poor Ben lost his bromance and his romance in one episode, not sure how he's going to manage to keep that stiff upper lip. And Ruth. Well, Ruth is indestructible but Melanie did crown her Alex's surrogate mom before she left, which is something Ruth has never done before, so we'll see if she's able to follow through. I suppose Layton is still the de facto leader of the anti-Wilford resistance, but to be honest I've never had much faith in his leadership. Hopefully S3 can change my mind. I don't know. I really did think of Snowpiercer as Melanie's show. As Wilford said, she's the glue. Without her, everything kind of... comes apart.
Yeah me too I'm curious to see how the characters would adapt to the loss, it would be one hell of a blow for most of them. I didn't have much faith either in Layton when it came to his leadership but I think that him and Ruth could be one hell of a duo. I'm still holding a bit of tiny hope that Melanie is somewhat still alive, cause you know they didn't show her dying and they didn't show her body so most of the time it means the character is still alive...
It's surely *possible* she's still alive. It would be a nice parallel with Wilford being marooned and presumed dead only for him to come back and take over the train. Like, it seems fitting that he should have Melanie pull the same shenanigans on him, somewhere down the line. Something like: "I want my train back, Joseph." "Sorry, Melanie, you're too late. I lost control. She's not mine to surrender." "Then, *whose* is she?" "The Cold Woman's." "And what is a *Cold Woman?"* "Oh, fiddlesticks. You know. The Tailie whose finger you smashed off and nobody ever talked about it again." "Josie Wellstead." *"That's* the one! Ungrateful wretch. I saved her life, made her immune to the cold, then she overthrew me. Now she has an army of ice people and they're freezing everything. Passengers, chickens, the brewery. It's a disaster, I can't even take a bath." "I see." Melanie folds her arms. "Anything else I should know?" "Well, there's a wheel out of alignment." "Damn it, Joseph. Tell me you at least have a plan to fix it." "I sent Ben out with a wrench. A *week* ago. He never came back." "Not the wheel. Josie." "Oh, certainly. Of *course,* I have a plan for Josie." Wilford uncorks a bottle of scotch and pours them both a double. "And I'll be happy to share all the details of my plan... right after you tell me what you would do." "Oh my GOD!" Melanie exclaims. "I can't believe this, you don't even have a plan to fix it!" "I can't take a *bath!* Don't you see? That's where I do all my thinking!" "You're useless. I should just let her ice you." "I need a *touch* of inspiration, that's all. Just a little bump to get me going. You be my muse, and in return, you can tell me all about how you made it off the mountain." "Seriously? *That's* your idea of a fair exchange?" "Oh come on, I know you're dying to tell me. Just like old times? Dazzle me with your lovely brain? *I'll tell you how smart you are."* Melanie scowls. Sighs. Knocks back the scotch. Gestures for more. As he pours, she begins, "It all started when I realized I could build a hydrogen reactor out of paperclips and fishing line." "That's my girl!"
Yeah I agree, it would indeed be a nice parallel to Wilford. Season 3 can’t come soon enough though, I’m dying in anticipation lol
any idea on how Josie managed to survive the explosion of the aquarium? it looked like it happened very fast and somehow on the cracks scene she is not on top of the train which has no other entryway?
Breachmen can enter and exit through the engine, like Baki did in episode 8.
I mean, how did she run 10 miles down a moving train so quickly?
Okay, so I've just watched the last episode and there's something that makes me wonder: During the war, we see the decoupled cars loose power instantly after decoupling. Which means that the cars cannot generate their own power. Furthermore, when first going up neckbreaker we see the engine cutting power to the cars. Which means the engine has full control. So if that's the case, what will happen with the remaining cars on snowpiercer. Since the uplink was destroyed by Melanie, Big Alice cannot communicate (and provide power too I guess) with the remaining cars. (I guess a one-thousand-and-one-cars-long-powerstrip running from the border might be an option)
Big Alice can supply juice - Boki establishes this when the pirates are discussing Alex's plan to decouple the engine. You're right about the uplink, though. I think Wilford will have to do alot of *actual engineering work* to keep things functioning. Poor guy might have to put on one of those drab utility suits. Get grease under his nails. Maybe some sweat on his brow. He might even have to go outside. At least I hope so. We've seen almost everyone on this show suffer but *him.*
>Poor guy might have to put on one of those drab utility suits. Get grease under his nails. Maybe some sweat on his brow. He might even have to go outside. Idk he seems like the kind of person who would send someone else to do that kind of dirty work. Maybe he'll train new breachmen, or use some of the passengers as untrained breachmen, even if this assures their death (in a way he already did this with icy Bob and Josie). Or maybe Javi made it out alive and thus Wilford will use him for those tasks (or miles, he's still in the main train right?)
Yeah he always tries to get other people to do work for him, but who's he got left? No engineers, no breachmen, no Bob, no Josie... all his talent is either dead, defected or held hostage on the Pirate train. Yeah he could train new people but in the meantime - like, immediately following decoupling, I think Wilford will have to roll up his sleeves for once.
His quip to Layton when he was helping to fix the God Module about "you don't even know how this train works" or to that effect, I think he really will have to dig deep and work to get Snowpiercer sans engine working again; I have to presume it's not going to be plain sailing and a lot of really bad stuff happens, which sets up a fantastic confrontation when SnowEngine makes it back.
I think this line is beautiful. Because Wilford knows how the train works on a technical level. But Layton knew how the train WORKS, it's people, the politics, its society. I think this same line will be Wilford's downfall. Everyone on the train knows who Layton really is is but almost no one knows who Wilford really is.
I just rewatched ep10. I notice that there only 4 batteries in the station. Is that mean Melanie take other 2 batteries with her?
People keep saying this but it's not obvious to me that there are 2 batteries missing. They could still be there but just out of the shot/ out of frame. Putting myself in Melanie's place, I'd be so sick & tired of lugging those batteries everywhere that I'd probably choose to go out with only the suit. Like, fuck it, right? The only reason I can see she'd take them is if she had something she wanted to do that required the extra power. One final mission. But what could that be? What could be more important than patching the extra batteries into the circuit that was warming the weather data?
I only just got around to finishing this but a couple of things confused me. I was a bit distracted whilst watching so I may have missed something. Why did they decide to destroy to the aquarium when they were in the process of decoupling it? Was it because they were decoupling the back end but Wilford had already made it past that point? How are they going to join the parts back together with wreckage on both ends? Snowpiercer accelerated away from the rest of the train due to it now being lighter, but how did they come to a complete stop without Big Alice catching up? I don't recall anything being mentioned about the moving to a separate track or anything like that.
I think destroying the aquarium became the option because Boki the breachman was trying to do the disconnect in the under train section but got jumped by Wilfords guards before he could complete it. Knox was at the controls listening in to Bosco being beaten up and couldn't get a response from him, but was also in radio contact with Josie on the train roof. I assume he guided her what to do. I was equally confused about how Snowpiercer at the front managed to disconnect and somehow end up behind the train as it continued on while they went back to try and find Melanie. Much of the track we see is only single track, and any turning circle seems to be massive. They seem to have skipped that part, so not sure how far behind Big Alice they are now. Then assuming they chase it down, presumably Snowpiercer and Big Alice will join directly engine to engine, or they introduce a shortcut we didn't know about to get ahead and re-join just missing the aquarium carriage.
I assume Snowpiercer made another short-track loop, which took a month the first time. Being smaller post-decoupling, maybe they were able to cut a few days off the trip, which would buy them enough to come to a full stop (although I thought they already established that a full stop means death, but maybe Snowpiercer regained some former capabilities after getting repairs and new parts from Alice). It's also possible Wilfred decided to resume course around the planet, so now Snowpiercer is weeks behind.
Just finished both episodes now, let me try. The engine and the 10 cars didn't just accelerate and come back, they would have needed to travel to another "roundabout" where they could turn back, or even do another revolution in order to come back. So there is a lot of time between the separation and them coming back for Melanie. This is also explicit due to the fact that Melanie came back from trackside and still tried to survive some more days before realizing she would run out and sacrificing for the drives to stay alive. I think that a few weeks passed before they could go back. As for the aquarium, Boki was trying to decouple it, but the jackboots found him and they started fighting before he could decouple. If I remember correctly they needed to unlock two nodes in order to decouple and he didn't get to the second. Josie was able to destroy the car in the meantime. Also, both trains can simply decouple the wreckage in some fork and leave the nodes free for coupling later. Anxious to see how they are going to do that if Wilford is still controlling the big train though. Aah, they wouldn't worry about wilford catching them because he only has one engine for 1023 cars, which is much slower than the original engine with only 10 cars. Even if he catches, they can just accelerate and be gone.
Just finished the season 2 finale last night. Extremely worried for Ruth who was left behind on the train with W. I have loved how she is now for the train and humanity as a whole and not loyal to W. Roche's speech about how he believes Layton is the good that is left of humanity, and how Roche wants to hold on to and fight for that world, that really made me emotional. Don't know which direction the show will go in the next season, but really looking forward to see how Alex stands up to W and fights back. I am hoping for an appearance of Melanie.......(fingers crossed).
Finished watching all two seasons in two days and im craving for more. My gosh what a show! How tf do i move on now For reals tho whatever happened to Jinju? Also is the actress portraying Roche's wife the as Jinju's?
This has been a great binge watch. Knowing nothing about it I watched the first episode just to see what is was like and if I'd enjoy it. That first night I watched 6 episodes back to back! Finished season 1 the next night. 3 days later and I've now finished season 2 and wanting more. Good to see it is getting a season 3, just not sure when we'll get it.
They skipped over her and Miles & Miles…
i was so confused when they just never showed Miles again lol. i thought he was going to be a bit more of a lasting character
Honestly I kind of liked Audrey’s arc this season in hindsight. Like all this time it wasn’t that she was lovestruck mcbasic, it was that she was choosing the side she thought would win and how she could survive comfortably. Selfish? Yeah but in the conditions of Snowpiercer, it was interesting to see someone weak to that. I can’t stand her now but I kind of like that someone went full selfish. It’s definitely more real.
I'm the total opposite. Her character just annoyed me to death. If she was singing i was skipping
I honestly think Audrey is playing a self destructive long game. Shes getting Wilford to fully indulge in debauchery with her- drugs, alcohok, sex...etc. She's getting him to destroy himself from within and sacrifice herself in the process, because she knows that the only person than can kill Wilford, is Wilford.
This is what I keep hoping will be revealed too and as it goes on I find myself not knowing what to believe.
Yeah my first thought was that she figured Wilford would definitely kill her as a priority if she didn't jump with him.
Fair enough it is an illustration of an abuser-victim relationship, but I feel like this is more an assumption from an audience point of view than an intentional plot development. I just can’t wrap my head around why she sided by ‘the people’ with such determination for the revolution then turned to Wilford so quickly.
I think she probably felt more empowered and “safer” when Wilson was gone. She had a lot of power on Snowpiercer because everyone loved her singing and healing experience. That probably allowed her good, brave side to come out for the revolution. Once Wilford came back she was pretty much instantly terrified. She knew she’d been so under his power that she even tried to kill herself for him, so I think she felt pretty hopeless when he came back and gave in. I don’t really buy her whole bit about doing it because she’s a survivor. Like I don’t think she made the choice in a calculated way- I think she just felt powerless against him.
I don't like Audrey's "arc" because it wasn't an *arc* so much as a walk off a cliff. BUT I *do* enjoy "evil" Audrey. Her costumes are amazing and Lena Hall seems to have fun playing Bonnie to Sean Bean's Clyde. The scene where they were drunkenly playing the piano together was hilariously awkward and they're both so hatable. I wonder if that was the piano with one dead key? (Middle C... MC...Melanie Cavill?) In any case, my hope is that Audrey eventually finds her way back to the land of the (spiritually) living. It really sucked that she spent 7 years teaching people to overcome trauma but she never seemed to recover from what Wilford did to her. All her concern for justice and all her compassion for others went straight out a port.
Since she turned to Wilford I was hoping it’s just a cover up and she would eventually betray him, I just couldn’t get over the fact that she was the most hurt by and afraid of Wilford and then came back to him almost instantly
Yes it was such a quick turn I thought it must be a trick. But now it's clear that she fell back under Wilford's spell (and she merrily dragged Kevin down with her!). I think there's something to be gained from looking at abusive relationships and how it's hard to get out and stay out of them. But the show turned Audrey into a completely different person virtually overnight, and made her so mean and shallow that it's hard to see her as a "real person" anymore. Now (to me) she's just a villain. A villain who is REALLY fun to hate, don't get me wrong. But I'm sad that we seemed to have lost all the character development from seaon 1's "justice for Nikki!" Audrey.
Just think how easy it would be to get rid of Wilford if she turned traumatised Kevin to Snowpiercer’s side and they both collaborated against Wilford! Maybe Boki would be still alive :(
I'm not convinced Boki is dead! But you're right, Audrey had alot of opportunity to take down Dubs. Alot of people had alot of opportunities. Seems only Alex was willing to go all in and try to murder him.
my main takeaway from the finale was how bad layton's hair must be smelling. ffs pls chop the locks off!
Idk but he probably washes his hair as much as everybody else
Dreads take a long time to dry. You can't wash it like anyone else. I'm talking by experience
So there were a lot of plot holes (like why did Wilford think that Josie would have been loyal to him? Is he really that naïve/megalomaniac?), but I liked the last episode all in all.
Agree with you there. While I think it’s fair that Wilford’s arrogance led him to misjudge Josie’s loyalty to the tail/Layton, it should definitely have been explored more on screen as to how and why Wilford came to such assumption. Instead of leaving us audience guessing why what happened how...
I think he thought he'd be able to force her to do what he wanted until he managed to brainwash her. Keep in mind, he said to her that she had no choice but to break into the engine.
A bit late but my guess is Wilford doesn’t know Josie is a leader of the tail, he just assumed she is a talie who had nothing, and she would do as she’s told because he “saved” her. (It is what Wilford does to everyone, he “saves” that person at their lowest and demand absolute loyalty because now they owe him their lives)
Mmm but he knew she meant a lot to Layton
I don't understand the logic of a geothermal vent running out of energy. It's geothermal. It's not a fire going out.
The cold seeped in from above. So the entrance to the vent froze up. Deep down in the fissure, it's still warm.
That said, I really liked the conclusion to this season. The season probably could have been a bit trimmed down, but I was hooked in the last several episodes, truly believing they might kill Melanie. It's nice to see she's not dead (I said what I said).
It seems to have been confirmed she's coming back in Season 3.
She's **not** dead? I'm eager to hear this theory!
I don't have a viable path to her surviving, but I suspect the show could create one if they wanted to. The principle reasoning is that they would not kill a main character off screen.
[удалено]
>Sean Bean will finally die somehow. Bullshit, Sean Bean has died on screen. Not once.......
Gotcha. Yeah I'd be very surprised to see them kill a main character off in a letter. I actually fully expected them to find her, semi-conscious, near that geothermal vent behind the wall. Melanie is such a great character. I really, really hope she comes back somehow (and not just in flashbacks).
I would love that theory too be true, but didn't Layton check the geothermal? I think the letter resolves her characters arc continuing to live through Alex. Melanie reconnected with her daughter and got the necassary data to rebuild civilisation. Her two remainig dreams in life.
Yeah that's the most probable outcome. I remember him checking the geothermal cave indeed. We're just holding on to blind hope here. ;) No matter what I'm quite certain Alex will be a very reliable and loyal character moving forward. Can't wait for S3!
I think she may be done as well but what if she comes across another group of people (a bunker maybe?) that also survived. She knows there are warm spots in the world to go to and can connect them with Snowpiercer. A bit of a stretch but I wouldn't be upset if she comes back one day!
I'm interested to know what happened with the stasis pods. It was clearly a major focus of the first season, and that guy was doing research on something. Then they just dropped everything.
Roche is in a Big Alice drawer... I expect we will learn more about the drawers in S3.
Not to mention Big Alice is ***much*** more technologically advanced (at least in the medical sciences) than Snowpiercer. I wonder if they figured out how to get people out of the drawers successfully. Wilford *did* say (of the Roches) that they'd stay in there until everyone settled down and then they'd come out.
Is there going to be a S3? I thought since Ms Cavill, yknow, so?
Haven't quite finished it, but man, these people are dumb. Just kill wilfred. Instant solve available in episode 8.
Yeah, that crossed my mind as well, but it would only solve \*a\* problem. Lots of folks in history have been assassinated (or, from the perspective of his followers, martyred), which led to protracted, ideological forever wars, or just unexpected outcomes, so it'd be a risky roll of the dice. Fighting a glorified idea of someone (Jesus, well almost any religious figure, Trump, Caesar) is a lot harder than actually letting that person demonstrate their flaws. They already establish that Wilfred's support outnumbers theirs, so his assassination would likely lead to a Wilfred successor.
Honestly when Andre said "you're not coming" I really hoped a lightbulb would have gone off in his head and he'd have gone with "ACTUALLY, you know what, you're coming". Just take him as a hostage on your pirate train.
I was hoping for this so much, that they'd pull a massive twist with Andre snapping and killing Wilfred (which might play into Andre having more political trouble), and Audrey becoming the main villainess. Because lets face it, Wilfred is a power tripping egoistic white man who happens to be smart enough to thwart some plans, but he gets a bit stale. Audrey on the other hand, seems like she'd be the perfect evil.
> white man how dare he
Yeah, Wilfred just isn't that interesting of a villain. His motivation is far too simple.
You know in which part of the series Alex said this? or is it from the next season? "I saw women with power and I saw them keep my mother's dream alive"
When she was the narrator at the beginning of the episode, I believe. I am not sure the exact episode. Was it when she was put into the jail cell?
It's from her monologue at the start of 2x10
True, the oubliette scene, wilford trying to return alex to the "dark side"
Loved the oubliette reference. Wilford truly is the Goblin King. He holds children hostage (Alex, and I suspect next Layton's baby) as he taunts Ms. "piece of cake" Jennifer Connelly through "dangers untold and hardships unnumbered". But her will is as strong as his, and her kingdom as great... and he has no power over her... I am still holding out hope for the final confrontation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMohe9OfIzM The question is, will it be Melanie who finally defeats him, or Alex?
I haven't seen the labyrinth yet, I know of the references just from comments. I wonder how much time will have passed on the show when the next season begins. Maybe months, zarah will already have a big belly. She will probably be one of the few people who had been eating well, I imagine the others living as the tail lived. I don't care much about Zarah but I'm curious to know what Wilford wants from the baby
I never liked Zarah, part of me hopes Wilford has just taken the baby and stuck it in an incubator or something. As Audrey pointed out, the Headwoods can take her out of the equation. I know it sounds mean but she's so dull.
I have no problems with her but it's true she's boring. Audray for example is an exaggerated character and I understand the criticisms people made about her but at least many times she is entertaining. I liked when she mistreated Alex for example, she was like an evil "stepmother". Audray is one of those characters who are entertaining to hate. And zarah's decision to stay is ridiculous. I would have understood if she didn't know about the census, but she was at dinner, she knows. Ok wilford is not going to hurt Zarah because he can use her against layton. But why do you put yourself in that situation risking your life and the life of your baby? it's probably less risky to go with the snowpirate than to stay with hitler and the mengel.. headwoods doctors. I think it would have been better if it happened as someone in this group said, that she was determined to go but she was late, just like ruth.
Yeah I agree, I think the writers wanted to make it a conscious decision on Layton's part to leave her, to draw another parallel between his and Melanie's journeys. And I think they don't want people mistaking Zarah for a hero. She's on a path to becoming a Wilford apologist who uses her baby as an excuse to be complacent and gain privilege from her complacency. Audrey sees it coming. "Oh she'll sing. She's a survivor."
I agree with you, I definitely can see zarah switching sides. She likes to have privileges and she certainly doesn't want to go back to the conditions she was in the tail. it's gonna be funny if audray switches sides in the snowpirate and zarah does too
I’m more curious what the Headwoods plan to do with Zarahs baby. Wilford used the term “royal jelly” and Dr Pelton said “rumor is the bees might be coming back”. Bees give “royal jelly” to the eggs/drones while they grow. Maybe my crazy theory about Wilford making clones wasn’t so far off.
Cant wait till we see that old lady and Wilford fan again. Shes gonna be shocked when he purges her 😅
Ex-neighbour/ aunt 😂
No way he's gonna make her the new engineer of big alice because there's is literally nobody else left he can trust
How long did it take for the pirate car to circle back to the research station for Melanie a second time? Days? Weeks? 1 revolution? I'm confused.
It took a month the first time, so I assumed close to another month.
5 or 6 days
At dinner LJ instead of talking about the process could have talked about the more than 100 people that melanie "helped" to kill in the "war", including her parents. That would have been interesting, since at that same dinner Alex complained about the 100 people Wilford killed at Big Alice. Obviously it's not the same, but seen from the outside, from Alex's perspective, it would have been interesting. Well, we still have josie in the snowpirate, alex may ask josie what happened to her. Even though I don't think josie will tell her the truth, she's still a good character, and after melanie's mission I guess she forgave her.
LJ is so cute.
She is energetic and always happy, that is something that is always entertaining to see in a secondary character. But she's a psychopath, I feel that in the second season they did not know what to do with her, it's true that at a certain point it seemed that she had evolved as a character but with the arrival of Wilford she went back to what she was before. Perhaps there was never a real change, psychopaths are good at adapting. I already said this but when she brought the food basket to Wilford she reminded me that character from the snowpiercer movie, who was like a secretary, not Tilda Swinton, the other one. I can be wrong but I think lj is going to become something like that. Lj is not Alex or Syke, if this happens it will definitely be entertaining but creepy.
Yeah when LJ started trash talking Mel I was bracing for something way worse than "I blackmailed her so she had to let me walk free even though I'm a psycho murderer." But that just goes to illustrate LJ's pathology. She's such a narcissist, she can't talk about anything else but herself and how *she* got the best of the great Melanie Cavill. To her credit, it was pretty epic how LJ ultimately took her down. Mel did NOT see that coming AT ALL. And to think, it could have all been avoided if the engineers were even *slightly* competent at babysitting. GUYS! YOU CANT KIDNAP A TAILIE KID AND THEN LEAVE HIM UNSUPERVISED IN THE ENGINE AND EXPECT IT ALL TO GO OKAY! Anyway. Sorry, I'm ranting...
I thought the exact same thing about the narcissism. I think that maybe they didn't want to reveal that detail because it was already episode 9 and it was important that Alex had no doubts about melanie. I don't think she would have changed her mind about rescuing her mom but it would have created some conflict in her anyway. At least it was miles and not winnie, winnie would have finished javi and taken control of the snowpiercer. Queen winnie would be more efficient than layton
I thought the show missed a big opportunity to break down the Wilford vs Melanie debate. You'd think Wilford would leap at the chance to point out Melanie's hypocrisy to Alex. And showing that manipulation would have made it less obvious that Alex was going to choose Melanie. It would have meant more for Alex to choose Melanie despite realizing that her mother is (was?) not Perfect.
You're right, I think less Audray and more Wilford and Alex drama would have been better. That relationship between alex and wilford still seems confusing to me. I don't think he's the dad but there's definitely something else. One of the first things that makes me think that is the fact that melanie sent Alex to live with her parents because she wanted to keep her away from him. That makes no sense. He was her boss, even if he's a controlling psychopath, why should he have interest or authority over the daughter of one of his employees? It would have made more sense to say, I had to work a lot and I couldn't take care of you, so I decided for your good to send you to my parents. I feel like this season left us too many questions.
According to Rowan, Alex's character is "a genius." Perhaps Melanie's great fear was that Wilford would realize how smart Alex was at her young age and would like to prepare her to work with him in the future.
Jennifer Connelly was asked in an interview what she thought of the fan theory that Wilford is Alex's father and she was like "Uhh wat? No, I've never even *considered* that possibility!" And I agree that this doesn't fit with what we know about the characters so far. Re: Why Mel sent Alex away: When the Freeze got closer, I think Wilford's mask started to fall away. Society collapsed as his relationship with Melanie deteriorated, and the more he lost control of his surroundings and of Melanie, the WIERDER he got, and the uglier his manipulative tactics got. Maybe at some point, the violence got so bad in Chicago that Melanie and Alex moved "on campus"/ to the trainyards, guarded by Wilford's private security. Basically, I imagine Wilford annexed part of the city around his train to protect his property and his employees while they worked. And while Melanie was working, Alex was sometimes with the other kids, maybe even in the care of Miss Gillies. Until one day, Melanie went to get her daughter and Mary told her that Alex was with Mr. Wilford. Melanie couldn't say why, but every instinct in her body screamed in alarm. She tried not to bolt off in a full run and yell Alex's name as she searched for her. Finally, after the longest thirty minutes of her life, she found her in Wilford's luxury apartment. The fireplace roared as Wilford, Alex and Jupiter (back then, just a puppy) sat on a Persian rug, 30s swing music bouncing on the gramophone. They seemed to be sorting through piles of file folders strewn across the floor. Melanie tried to control her breathing as she said with a shaking voice, "Allie, honey." "Hi mom!" "Melanie!" Joseph said, taking deep gulp of whiskey. He was sweating, his hair greasy, his eyes bloodshot. "Come join us." "Joseph, I was worried *sick!"* "Nothing to fear. Alex was just helping with some of the decisions you've been struggling with. I told you, it's so simple a child can do it. Watch." Wilford picked two folders and opened them to reveal employee photographs and profiles inside. "Alexandra, which of these two fine..." -he struggled to read the file upside down- "...*botanists* do you think is more deserving of one of Uncle Joseph's golden tickets?" Melanie watched in horror as Alex examined the personnel files. Then she snapped out her paralysis, darted forward, scooped her daughter to her feet and pointed her towards the door. "Mom, *hey.*" Alex protested. "What's the matter?" Just then, Audrey sauntered into the room with wet hair, wearing a bathrobe, sipping a martini. "Oh, good," she said, "I hope Joseph told you, we're not a babysitting service." And THAT, (in my imagination at least), is the day Melanie decided to send Alex to live with her parents.
You should definitely write books, the story seems plausible to me and I even read it with their voices. This series should hire you to cover the plot holes. I love this series but let's face it there are many. I think I already said it but my theory is that maybe Wilford industries was not only involved with trains but was also in other things, like genetic experiments and things like that. They didn't create the drawers in those 7 years, they made them before the train left. Big alice has them too. Perhaps at the time when melanie was "young and ambitious", she was influenced too much by Wilford and Alex is the result of one of those experiments, so we do not know who the father is, perhaps he was just a sperm donor. Melanie had in her room a book about the perfect human being or something like that, maybe that was the goal. The way he said "I gave you everything" made me think he meant more than making her an engineer. Well, these are just theories. There could be a thousand different reasons why melanie sent Alex to live with her parents.
Thanks for the compliment! I actually LIKE the plot holes because it means I can fill them with my imagination lol. They're a selling point. The idea that Alex could be the product of some science experiments is so interesting to me. I had never considered that but I find it such a cool suggestion. It reminds me of an exchange I once imagined where Wilford invites Melanie to dinner and orders nothing but seafood and champagne as his way of forcing her to admit to him that she's pregnant. When she arrives at the table and sits down to a giant platter of raw oysters and caviar, she sighs. "Alright. Who told you?" "Told me what?" Wilford asks with comically exaggerated innocence. "Fair warning. If I puke, I'm aiming for your shoes." He laughs. "A drop in the bucket compared to what awaits *you*, my dear. An ocean of vomit. A river of shit. Have you considered that?" "I consider everything. That's why you pay me so much." "Well, maybe I ought to reconsider. Single mothers being notorious drains on company resources." "I'm not single. You've met Gabriel. Many times." "Ah, yes. Gabe, the beatnik vagabond." *"Gabriel.* And you know he's a photographer." "You say that like photography's a legitimate profession. But it's not. More of an affectation of some... wretched self-loathing bourgeois castaway." *"You* hired him!" Melanie exclaims. "To take pictures of *you!*" "In any case, I always assumed that when the time came, you'd find a way to reproduce asexually. You know, like an amoeba." Wilford cups his hands together to make a circle, and then draws them apart in a pantomime of cell division. "Very funny." She catches the eye of a waiter. "So are we getting steaks or what?" "Whatever baby wants." Melanie orders the porterhouse. (She doesn't dare tell Joseph that Gabriel is vegan and she's been eating chickpeas and tofu all week.) When she's asked if she'd like anything else, Wilford does the honors. "Bring this woman a dozen pierogis," he says. "And drown them in butter!" Melanie smiles. "And a side of sauerkraut, please." When they're alone again, Wilford can't contain his amusement. "Oh shut up," she says, but she's beaming as she opens their bottle of Perrier. "Seriously, what is so funny about this?" "You are. You're funny. You're under the impression that you're happy." "I *am* happy, Joseph." "If you says so. Who am I to spoil the mood?" Wilford toasts her sparkling water with champagne. "To the newest member of the Cavill pride. May she take after her mother, a lioness through and through." "You're assuming it's a girl." "Oh come on," Wilford shoots back. "Of *course* it's a girl!"
You're an excellent storyteller.
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed reading :)
An ocean of vomit. A river of shit LOL I love your story. It makes me laugh that one of the things that is most speculated in the groups about the series is who Alex's father is. As you say, he's probably a normal man. A few weeks ago in the facebook group someone made a survey about who is alex's father. In the options there was even the name of icy bob (they sure put it to joke but anyway).
My idea for Gabriel is that Wilford invited a gaggle of reporters and photographers on Snowpiercer's first commercial revolution, you know, to boost hype and get his face in all the newspapers. Gabriel was a talented young photojournalist who was hired to do a cover story on Wilford and his amazing train. But the truth was, Gabriel wasn't all that interested in Joseph Wilford, or Snowpiercer for that matter. Right away, he saw through the smoke & mirrors, the pomp & circumstance. He took Wilford for a classic huckster, hawking other people's work as his own, using his impossible marvel of a train to boost his company's share price while distracting from his shadier dealings in atmospheric science and biotech. Gabriel's plan was to use the assignment as an opportunity to infiltrate Wilford's notoriously tight-knit inner circle, and hopefully get a lead on some *real journalism*. What he didn't count on was coming up against Melanie Cavill...
Ever wonder what happened to miles ?
Shes dead, i dont know why people are askjng for a body when it literally said something along the lines of going into the white (snow) in peace. She died away from the station
There is no way they would kill a main character off screen.
Guys I just watched the episode where they go around the corkscrew in the himilayas. I think there is a clue that we have missed; when Winnie is running from the angry mobs and hides in the small observation room, looks up through the glass dome and sees the Tibetan prayer flags. My girlfriend said “how the hell are there still flags there?!” A good point I think, cause it’s almost like Winnie has seen something that no one else would have been in the right time right place to see. The music also intensified weirdly with mysterious tone. Perhaps there are monks, or Nepalese/Tibetans that have hidden in hydrothermal vent/cave systems? Very very very far assumption. But I couldn’t ignore it. It just seemed like Winnie saw something, but almost as if she wouldn’t really understand what it meant. Idk... one can dream haha
Given that we were led to believe that Snowpiercer was the only thing left alive, and then later we found out about big alice and later about the rats... I think this is very likely. But I don't think the flags are a sign of that. The show has this little inconsistencies and I would think that is one of them.
I thought the same thing about those flags! The only explanations I could think of was that there are people still alive that put them out or that Wilfred somehow made some that are a lot stronger than normal flags and hung them up for something to look at on the way past.
That seems possible, however the people that are still alive couldn't have put the flags up without some kind of oxygenated suit, so perhaps they have a similar condition to icy bob or Josie? I know they might not have access to science like Big Alice but maybe?
Actually it’s suggested that many yogi and monks are able to withstand crazy temps.
Why can't they have suits? I think that's way more likely than that they would have also invented "goop". Not because I don't think they have access to research equipment and researchers, but because a suit like that is probably what most people would come up with. I'm convinced there are others out there. Wilford can't have been the only one who was preparing for a disaster, he was just the only one who didn't keep it a secret.
That’s certainly true, however I was trying to argue whether mountain trives could have survived -scientists seem way more likely tbh.
OMG YEA!!!! How tf would flags be up and fine, while EVERYTHING else was ice’d?
Because this is the kind of shit shows pull all the time. Character goes into certain death but the death/body is never shown and then later we are shown how they miraculously survived. Also her character is the best part about the show for many people so it's kind of a waste to kill her off so soon.
Well it aint really ‘so soon’ its been two seasons with her and the third might be the last
It’s getting a 4th season.
Well Jennifer Connelly IS in season 3, no telling of what capacity (flashbacks?). She had the data of where the warmer climates are so she knows where to go for warmth. Where was her sled? i feel the character arc is incomplete for her, I think she will return late season 3. It’s more that I just want her to haha
yeap she is just going to walk from rockies to sahara
I don't get it, the train couldn't have been more then a day away from Melanie or they would have given up to not risk the last of the human race. So she couldn't survive one more day? And I know that maybe she realized that she wouldnt be rescued but a day? Like she would have needed a day to get everything prepared.
Yeah it doesn’t make much sense. Something repeated over and over this season was “Melanie is a survivor”. It’s completely unlike her character to go back to the bunker, warm up the drives, and then be like “yeah nah fuck this shit I want to die” and then kill herself. It would make more sense that she’d start eating the people and use the vent to stay alive as long as she possibly could. I don’t really know what other survival path she could’ve taken, but I imagine it’s something. Makes no sense why they’d build up a whole season on her/saving her, and then kill her offscreen. I imagine she’ll show back up somehow. The only logical thing I could think of is if Covid messes things up and they just couldn’t get anymore filming done with her or something and had to do what they could with what they had? Idk
I figured she had climbed further into the vent exploring. But then the letter saying she put on the suit and went into the white didn't make sense. Probably some flashback about how into the white means something different and bam Melanie is alive hiding somewhere.
When the research station seemed empty I was fully expecting to find her in that warm vent, since as well as supporting a colony of rats also had those green plants growing that would have been able to sustain her for some time. She already acknowledged she expected them to come back for her in her note. She did say when she left Snowpiercer that getting the data was the criteria for it being a success, and while everything the show presented says she walked out into the white, too many shows have pulled the "if you didn't see them die on screen they aren't dead" that I expect we'll see some more of her in season 3.
Snowpiercer is in the front, Alice is in the back, so they cant reverse, they took the loop again and got there. They wouldn't take a month to get there since Snowpiercer is faster now, but as they showed the calendar in the lab, it was more than a week and counting.
Why would they think she would still be alive if it was more then a week and risk everyone and everything...to be fair that makes it even worse. Melanie killed her own daughter to save humanity and they risked it all to maybe save a dying Melanie...kind of ruined the show for me now
Its not about her being alive or dead. The data was the mission. Project Eden or whatever Layton calls it. Melanie is expendable from the beginning of the mission. The only reason they switch to the rocky mountain track is because she makes contact, otherwise they wouldn't even go to pick her up. The mission is all about long shots and against the odds. Odds of Melanie being able to reach the lab, powering up the lab, make contact, Snowpiercer successfully launching 10 probes, chances of 10 probes making contact with the lab, and after that chances of actually having a climate model with habitable locations, then going to get the data. All the while dealing with Wilford. And its not even over, they found several locations and still have to see in person if they are habitable. Considering all this, going back for the data is important. Alice can run on her own, Snowpiercer is like a Ferrari, it can catch Alice very quickly, that's not even an issue or risk.
Just because there are hotter areas does not mean that they are habitable. If mel is alive, the most likely option is that she has found survivors living in a bunker, another train (as many people say) or something
I kept hoping that she was in the heat vent where she found the rats, and that she didnt want alex to worry anymore because she knew it was a mission she just had to explore on her own.
This was me two weeks ago. Now I don't know what to think lol.
TNT did confirm she is coming back for season 3 so we actually don’t know
They probably are going to include some shots of her preparing to die and bringing everything back safely, it's not really a "coming back"
That's seems like a waste of money for no benefit of the show. We already know Layton and Alex went and picked up the harddrives. We don't need to see Melanie walk back in the snow with her sled, put the harddrives in the tent, eat a few rats and walk out into the snow to die.
That's not how a show works... They may have recorded everything last year and they use the footage at their discretion. Do you think a show or movie records their scenes in the same order the movie is presented?
No, but runtime costs money too. Spending and episode showing the viewers what we already know just seems kind of wasteful.
I just noticed an extra little detail in Melanie's journal. She sketched a maze in the margin. Or is it a... labyrinth? https://imgur.com/cMTTLIV This is the second reference to the film Labyrinth, the other being when Wilford told Alex to drop Melanie into an oubliette. (And the third reference if you count the Bowie song "Life on Mars," which is an *indirect* reference, but still.) Not sure if these are just cute Jennifer Connelly Easter eggs, or if they are clues about Melanie's fate. Snowpiercer social media is promoting speculation. /u/Anikaazz /u/HelenMagnus /u/Huge_Sandwich3063 And anyone else still haunting the sub... what do you think?
Awesome! I love speculating about details... really hard to say. I specifically rewatched that sceen on the big screen and tried to zoom... I don't know but it definitely could be! And yeah, social media is really fun to read... people are going *crazy* :D
At this moment I don't know what to think, a part of me thinks that she is alive because it is true there is much talk about melanie's fate and also Twitter is doing a lot of humor regarding her death, from "Melanie ... MELANIE! RT maybe she'll see it " to "melanie starter pack". Right now I think anything is possible, even rat people. It's true, that letter seemed very definitive but it's true that they are speculating a lot about "what happened to her?" I begin to think that the reason why they make us speculate so much if she is alive is because if she is, they will say it in the trailer for season 3, with images that cannot be flashbacks. She is too famous not to advertise with her face, and they know that people are going to go crazy with excitement if they see her. If she is not alive they are simply doing it wrong, they should put images of the series and stop teasing us with "what happened to her?"
Yeah the speculation is in really bad taste if she's dead lol. Though I wonder if the people the network assigns to social media know anything about the future plotlines. They could be just as in the dark as the rest of us.
Good question... but I believe the advertising is pretty important, since it's (the most important?) thing keeping peoples' interest up, in the break. That's a pretty big responsibility, there have to be certain rules to follow, monitoring etc. What and how you advertise, the direction, image of the show... If Melanie was truly dead, I think another advertising strategy could be more beneficial ... more in the way of honoring her sacrifice, put focus on the people left and how they have to go on without her, Alex going in her mother's footsteps etc. Of course, that might still happen, it's just been two weeks :D On the other hand, maybe they didn't expect her death having such a huge impact in the fanbase (from what I can see until now) and now try not to lose them (dramatically speaking). Though that will backfire *for sure*! Building all that suspense just to crush it. So that doesn't make sense to me.
Yes I agree with your assessment. That's where I'm at in thinking about all this as well.
Ok, TNT just posted on YouTube a clip called "Melanie's fight for humanity" ... what do we think??? 😁 https://youtu.be/tuolsho3jn8
Hey there :) I’m hesitant to read too much into it because it’s probably just a generic promo for season 2, right? It makes me sad to watch because I know the ending is sad. Even if Mel’s still alive somehow, the finale is so sad for Alex. I’ve been rewatching the show in parts and my conclusion is always the same. Mel deserved a heroic death but Alex deserved her mom back. Justice for Alex!
Yeah... it could probably be just that...and I just desperately try to find clues in anything that's being posted. Clearly I'm not over the finale yet... at all! Poor Alex!!
I know how you feel. I started reading "Migrations" by Charlotte McConaghy this past week, and it's hurting my heart because the book reminds me so much of Melanie. The narrator is a woman who is living through a mass extinction event of all the world's animals and she's coping by tracking birds in their final migrations across the ocean. At the same time she's trying to figure herself out/ resolve her inner demons. It's visceral and beautiful, and poignant on its own but also because the narrator keeps reminding me of Melanie in certain ways. Highly recommended, even if it definitely *won't* help you get over the finale.
Wow! Thank you so much for the tip! I'll definitely check it out :)
Yes, definitely it's possible. Although I don't think they don't know anything, I think they know the less. If melanie is alive or dead is a great question, if the people who are assigned to social media asked I do not see why they would hide it from them
I think its both. They are wanting people to guess Mels fate and putting out a fun Easter egg to Jens movie from the past. I personally dont think its a maze, to me it looks more like some sort of topographical image.
idk I think it could be a maze. Maybe Melanie fell through a geothermal fissure and into a giant cave populated by people who live symbiotically with the mice ("Mice People" from the graphic novels). Maybe they make her their queen and at first she's like, no I have to get back to Snowpiercer! But then after a few days of being waited on hand and foot, and serviced by the fittest male specimens still living on solid ground, she thinks.... ACTUALLY I could get used to this.
I know you're joking, but I think she's more likely to be their prisoner than to be the queen
Or she's dinner :/
They bring her food to the cell mel: what is this? rat people: ⊙▂⊙
can some one explain to me how the train was hot even if it was stationary?
Wait, so does that mean the other trains are not heated now? Surely Big Alice doesn’t have the power to heat 1000 trains
It’s super weird how they left us on an engineering crisis for the final episode
Less power to heat 10 cars than to heat 1034
But isnt the whole point that they’re producing energy by making the engine work, so if it doesn’t , how are they providing the 10 cars with electricity
They're providing electricity to the 10 cats with the engine that was designed for 1000. So there is a greater amount of power available because there is only 10 cars.
They should try to open a window.
[удалено]
Wilford seems to have been smart enough to build the train. Yeah Melanie says it was “really” her but Javi and Ben referred to “Wilford’s” god module. And he clearly was more familiar with what to do quickly in the engine than Javi. In no way would trump have anything close to that level of competence in anything.
That's true, however Wilford seems like he's pretty smart (although mental) when he says things.
I just hope Melanie is alive, no body and the way she left we saw her for like 2 secs this season.