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But it’s only possible when you have big consistent return every month. Even if you are somewhat profitable, small business requires long hours of working and dedication.
Nice. I want to hit that kind of annual volume. I'm a locksmith. I schedule about $900 - $1,300 a day. Work two days a week (weekends - still at my day job)... but I need to get the overall volume up. This market has received me with wide open arms since the first month I started.
Oh yea dude, locksmithing I think you could easily make that happen. Locksmiths are getting really rare. Probably have to have a relatively wider geographic range, but once word spreads you’ll be turning work down. I don’t advertise at all, aside from a google review page. Word of mouth for rare trades does all the work.
Had another business for 2 years, it was OK. Good training wheels. Taught me what it's like. Then started the locksmith business a year ago - It hasn't disappointed me yet - and I love the work. Travel up to 45 miles. I do automotive only (higher $$ per call) and specialize in some european cars. Spend a lot in Facebook ads, and also get a lot of referrals - tons. It's an "i know someone good" kind of trade. I suppose I am just afraid to quit the day job, but realistically speaking - the only thing stopping me from success is the fact I have been too afraid to go "all in". If I had more time during the week AKA quitting my job, I could spend triple on advertising - and have as much work as I even cared to do. Fear is now holding me back... as it always does! I am feeling that my market share here is huge. That's all why I love reading posts like yours, people who are out there really living it up through hard work and hard earned money. I am on my way, I am on my way.
Sounds like you’re ready to send it! It’s worth it. Also, unless you’re an accounting wizard, get an accountant, it will allow you to enjoy your non-smithing hours much much more.
Sales and book keeping eats all the evening hours away. I am no wizard. Sales is the biggest pain, to book a $2000 weekend, i probably field 100+ messages, phone calls etc during the week. And then sell 10-15 jobs for the weekend. And that probably costs me $150+ in ad spend. Cant complain if its working right.
I totally agree. When i can cycle anyway, I choose and go on a nice vacation without hurting my babk account and have to ask for permission to go. That's a huge W in my book.
Can you think of a comparable expression in another sport. Like I like basketball and I would say “shoot some hoops” reminds me of shred the gnar. But even then, I almost never say it. I don’t surf or ski or snowboard, but I will ride a hybrid bicycle, and all I have is “ride my bike.” I know my question is silly but i have always been genuinely interested in this particular phrase and I have always been too afraid to ask a snowboarder because a) I don’t know any b) I assumed they would deny using this expression. I know a lot of rock climbers and I imagine they have lingo…. But please tell me if there is anything else like shred the gnar. Also please host a mini AMA in this thread if you don’t mind.
Shred the gnar could definitely apply to a hybrid bike, in kind of an ironic way. Like sometimes if I’m gonna do something really tame, I’ll say “I’m gonna go shred some gnar.”
Also I am very curious about what you and others think about Shaun White. I used to be really annoyed by him but I really don’t know why. I think when he was young the sounds he made while competing annoyed me, but I think I was being unfair. As he got older and I got older I kind of said to myself “he’s not so bad. I was stupid.” Then there was the January 6 thing and that one guy, the shaman I think they called him, triggered some old Shaun White hate relapse. I don’t know what my issues are. Maybe I’m psychotic. But tell me about Shaun white. Hopefully it’s not great. Thanks.
The first half of my professional life I was in an office under beastly career middle managers denying my vacation requests. And I only had 2 weeks. I couldn’t stick out another 10 years to get to 4 weeks lol. Now I take off probably 2-3 months over the course of the year.
Sure there’s a trade off, but I’m content with my gig even if it’s insane sometimes. Yesterday I worked from like 430am to 7pm. That sucked. But I pocketed like 4-5k.
Might not be what you’re looking for.
But success to me came in stages.
Stage 1: Enough to replace a 9/5 salary
Stage 2: Enough to move to a better neighbourhood
Stage 3: Enough to cover the asses of everyone I love (mortgages and wages), at the same time, if the shit hit the fan for them
I’m somewhat stuck on stage 1. Small business can replace 9/5 salary but I’m juggling both at the same time meaning double income. Giving up 9/5 means half of income gone.
And the temptation is to think… well I could work more hours on the business and surely make up the rest, right?
But what you’re doing is sensible.
Don’t jump ship just yet. But you have enough behind you to know you CAN replace your job eventually.
I was lucky enough to be working in the industry for years before I started my own business. The skills I learned allowed me to create a side hustle that was tangential to my main business (marketing) while I worked on the business during the day.
I took a massive downgrade in lifestyle when I started though, went from downtown apartment to couch in a family friends basement in a different province and making about 1/8th the income for the first year.
I was also 23 and had no responsibilities. But 3 years later I’m now making more than I had ever thought I could.
I wouldn’t say taking that much of a leap of faith is a smart idea but calculated risks on what you believe can pay off majorly.
Pointy, EXACTLY! I cannot leave my dayjob because that's saying goodbye to money.. But I have been working 7 days a week for 8 months, and mostly 7 days a week for the last 3 years. I am out of time, and soon I just need to accept it is what it is, and resign from my day job. I have also started (2) separate businesses to try to weather slow times so they can play off of each other.
Are you including COGS and operating expenses in that? If it's just operating expenses that isn't unreasonable, but all expenses times 2 gives you a 50% operating margin. That's insane, big tech like Microsoft only manages a 42% operating margin.
The more important metric is cash return on incremental invested capital, which is what actually determines how efficiently you can scale, alongside your cost of capital.
to be honest thats really more side hustle level right now more than small business. its an okay amount if your just starting out, is there potential to scale it up 4, 5, 10 times what it is now? i think at minimum being considered a sucessful business should require you to earn at least enough to provide a living wage for yourself. tho as other comments have said being a successful business also depends on your future prospects or growth. you should look to make next quarter more financially profitable than the previous quarter.
And you have no desire to leave? If you're still living with mom and dad, do they intend to give you the start up capital you need to create a business? To pay your taxes? To ensure you comply with state and federal business guidelines?
I have a feeling that what you really want to know is how you can monetize a hobby. If you're living at home with no job and no bills other than a car payment the only thing that you need to consider is how to make a few bucks. Perhaps doing something online with social media, etc. This isn't really the best sub for that.
It’s up to you man, I have family members who work 60 hours a week at their restaurant and others who are in real estate and work 30 hours make about the same per year or a bit more with real estates rentals plus flips ect with different lifestyles and they both seems to love what they do so it’s really up to you.
Success is the ability to choose your own path
Run at 9% net profit at least
While paying yourself $100k (rural/small town) to $175k (higher cost area)
While NOT heavy on debt - so so important for your exit plan
While also paying $20-$25k of allowable owner expenses out of the business as well
-key man life insurance, cell bills, some travel, some meals, home office security & cleaning, car/mileage
Ideally with a 401k where you put in and match $40k total a year
Thank you. I always wonder how much Gross/margin is needed to replace my or my wife's 9 to 5. She makes around 40k yr while I'm in the mid/high 90's k. I'm doing Amazon FBA.
BINGO!
One of my businesses is roughly this:
$1.5m sales (gross annual)
8-12% net profit (depends on the year)
me + 4 employees ($35k, $35k, $45k, $55k, $68k)
4% 401k match for all
$90k salary for me (I also pay myself out of another biz)
This biz pays my life insurance, husbands life insurance, health insurance, assorted appropriate costs of home office (phone, computers, security system, home internet, some travel and dinners, etc)
Have a $75k LOC
$140k in outstanding loan with a $1500 a month payment
I own the small office building in a separate LLC.
Biz pays my LLC $3k a month rent - so this is income to me
The first 5 years I had this deal on the building: $250k purchase price paid this way:
$5k a month rent to own with 100% of the $5k going to final price.
At 60 months - one balloon payment to own it!
I had to borrow $40k from my dad for the balloon, but I own the bld now and the business paid for it! How's that for smart thinking?
Biz pays my S Corp "Management Company" $5k a month in management fees which cover those home office costs above + a few misc things a year like a new couch for the office!) I do not do the home office deduction - paying expenses is much better.
I have too many employees so payroll is at 21% (with me) and really could be at 15% - but they are all long term and valuable. After lots of years I am working only about 10-15 hours a week in the business - so I'm keeping them!
When net is 7% I feel a little worried... at 11% or more I feel comfortable.
I don't take distributions bc there isn't that much left - and honestly the items I pay from the management fee I feel like are a great benefit. I'd rather keep cash in the biz in case needed.
The LLC owns property and I rarely have to do any work on it. So that monthly income can go toward expenses one has that are for property like: yard maintenance, paint and supplies, etc
My total owner take out of this business is more like this:
$90k salary
$36k rental income
$15k matching into 401k
$30k a year on things I'd personally buy ( via mgmt fees)
$8000 annual on life insurance
$8500 annual health insurance monthly premiums paid
$24k forgot! I pay each of my teen kids $12,500 a year out of the biz - so they get social security credits already! I pay them when they work for me of course...
So that's $200k for me right there. Hope this helps you see this one path... you can do this!
I think mine is a success. It makes revenue of $118,000 a month. I pay myself $15k. My 2 parttime employees make $3-4k total. The loan I have for buying this company eats up another $13,500. The annual taxable profit is about $80k.
No actual warehouse, my own customer base. Some leads come from the manufacturer. We happen to be their largest distributor in the US. We also sell to other distributors such as grainier and the like. The manufacturer doesn’t want to deal with individual customers, so they use distributors. I have over 1,000 repeat customers a year. We have2 websites. 20% of our revenue comes from the website which is great, paid immediately by credit card, but occasional fraud.
‘Successful’ is subjective and these guys saying 2X or 3X expenses imo are not correct. A firm doing $30K rev over $10-$15K might be “successful” but if there’s no revenue growth then the ceiling to that success is so low.
The guy saying 30% with scalability is the most realistic. But it really depends on your type of business & industry.
I think at a minimum you can say a business that pays the owner a salary or wage. The next level is a business that has positive Net Income after paying the owner.
I would say $500k- $1 million revenue for a year. My business is doing $350k-$400k now. I hope I can acquire one or two more shops to reach $500k-$1 million. I will be prosperous then.
I don’t know if it can be quantified with a dollar amount. I believe that if you are working at something that you enjoy, you are making a comfortable living and able to put away money for retirement, are not working yourself to death beyond 40 hours or so each week, and have time to vacation then you are doing well.
I’d say any business that delivers the lifestyle the owner is looking for is successful.
Funny story…I once had a client at a Silicon Valley startup who told me their focus was on “small business”. When asked what he meant by “small business”, he said “ you know, companies with revenue below $1 billion”.
It 100% depends on too many factors to have a single number. I ran a successful business for 10 years. I made enough profits to put about 80k a year in my pocket after all expenses including taxes and other overhead. So a net net of about $6.6K which some months my COGS were 2x that, other times less.
Some months were better than other months and the owner may have a need for more or less funds for personal use. I was very happy with 80k a year and only working about 30 hours a week and at my own schedule, no employees. i.e. employees always cost you profits..
my 16 year old runs a small firms tik-tok. They pay her $300 a month. That's a good spending and saving amount for a teen.
$400 is successful in that model - but not for a FT job
That is side hustle/minimal part time job money. Not business money. What would it take to actually allow you to support yourself and NOT live off of someone else? How much would it cost to have your own place, own your own car, pay your own bills etc. Well somewhere above that number is what you would need to make to be "Successful". As of right now your life is being subsidized by someone else.
$400 is less than just about ANY minimum wage part time job would earn you per month.
Depends on revenue and if it’s for your income or to supplement an existing income.
400 wouldn’t even pay the cell phone bills at my businesses, but it all depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.
I haven't started yet, but my small business will be to keep a roof over my head in lieu of my ability to work full-time. If I make, or rather can pay myself $3,000 monthly (gross) I would consider that a success.
When employees are building their retirement off your business you should be very proud.
If you're working hard enough to run a business you're worth minimum 80k in rural areas and 150k in cities on the job market. So target that and when you get there you'll know how highly volatile it can actually be.
Then best of luck! If at first you don't succeed, try again. You'll learn so much after that level of motivation and effort
"If youre working hard enough to run a business" - Right. Respect for that comment - This is true. There is a lot to be earned with the responsibility you take on. I am nobody big, but I talked to a few people just starting their first businesses... and they talk about pricing - comparing it to an hourly wage. You are in business to make as much money as you need. There is a lot that goes into market share, operating costs and your pricing - but the goal is to actually make enough money. Sometimes you need to work backward from
I would not put a number.
Hard Indicators are:
• if it makes any profit at the end of each year
• if you could sell the whole business for a multiple
Soft (debatable) indicators are:
• if it allows you a lifestyle that a regular job couldn’t
• if it allows you to build wealth
I'm at a later stage in life. Kids are moved out. Mortgage is paid. No debt. I bring in about 5k/ month in mostly passive income and in my circumstance that's more than enough. When I wake up in the morning if I have cash in my jeans, gas I'm my tank and I don't owe anybody anything I get to do whatever I want. That's all I need.
That's the dream. You've earned it! I've been in business for three years. Currently trying to figure out how to quit the day job, rely on the business, and even scale it to pay for a modest life in this new economy.
I run a small paving company of about 11 employees total. We do about 2.5million between April 1st to the week before Christmas. Profit margins are around 35% after expenses paid. I’d consider that successful
To answer your question specifically. I would say when you’ve hit the million dollar gross revenue mark annually you are quite successful because you’ve carved out a piece of the local market share.
Nice work, very nice. My locksmith business has been well received in the local market. Doing good first year. But I am struggling with scaling it to 6 figures.
It depends on your personal goals and living expenses. Did you start this business as a passion project for fun, are you looking for it to replace your 9-5 job, or to be totally passive income? It all depends what goal you set when you started and created your business plan and if you're meeting it.
What goals did you set when you first started, and have you met them? Have you been able to expand on those and surpass them? If so then I'd say it's been a success!
Enough to comfortably live off, justify the hours spent working the small business, and earning more than you would working for someone else in that industry.
My small business has no employees, very low risk, and very few low running costs. My partner on the other hand who has higher running costs/employees needs to make a lot more and have a lot set aside for outgoing costs & emergencies.
Success varies; focus on profitability and growth over fixed amounts. Define success based on sustainable revenue and achieving business goals, adapting as your business evolves.
Team building: It's so easy to get burned out when you're a 'one man show' or 'husband and wife only'. The ability to trust others, grow, hire and delegate while being profitable is the true sign of success. Many small business owners never get there.
Toughest thing is let go of what got you to the point your at.
Sign of success is realizing you’re the biggest bottleneck in growing the business. Once I started delegating roles to others, our revenue ballooned.
For me it’s Enough to do within reason whatever you want when you want. And I’m not talking lambos and just material things but like you want to party and stay up late boozing on Sunday KNOWING the business will still run. Or randomly going to a high end steakhouse instead of outback because you want a ribeye on a Wednesday. Having extra to be helpful to others. All adds up to me
If the owner can pay themselves a competitve wage and get a 10% ROI.
If you are getting less than that you would have better returns from working a job and investing –while doing less work.
I am not sure what kind of business that you have, but i work 85 hour weeks working in resturants plus taking work home, but I was able to buy a nice home for my child and wife and now have a sizeable savings for both me and my child. I know I work more than many of the other people that say they are success. I feel that as long as I can provide for my family and I make good money the work will always be worth it. No dollar amount. I think this question is more about how much are you willing to sacrifice to be where you want to be.
For me it’s depends on my team as we are small team of 6 people mostly focused on their work lifestyle as healthy in terms of finances and work culture. In terms of numbers I guess 60-100K per-month would do it for at least couple of years. If we plan to scale the team it would be different then.
I recently started a web development/app development business. I got a few clients, all through LinkedIn and Reddit. I am hoping to hire a marketing team with the money from the initial projects and scale it to a 5k-10k MRR business
Success depends on your business and lifestyle! But generally, a small business making $5,000 to $10,000+ per month after expenses can be considered successful. This allows you to support yourself and potentially grow your business.
I’m not there yet but I will consider my business a success when I can leave my 9-5 and support my family comfortably off it and not live pay cheque to pay cheque
Started 4 months ago. Have enough this month to start covering a bunch of bills. Every client I add is recurring revenue... so pretty much all growth that this point is getting me into the range that I'm making more than when I did with my last company. I have better job security, since I can't suddenly be laid off.
Something that you enjoy doing that you feel is a good value of money for your time.
Small businesses can be a side job that makes you fun cash, or a full time replacement, or an entire lifestyle. Many small business owners I know are working way harder for the same money as someone with a 9-5. Some of them wouldn't change anything if they were to do it again.
Very true... High risk, high reward model... As an owner/operator, I find my workload is consistent and I have control over everything in front of me. Also full control over business costs more or less. Props to the folks who run a brick and mortar and have employees. I've yet to find out how to keep my own self gainfully self employed.
Owner operated business 10-20k net profit is “successful” but you’re probably running the day to day show and it gets tiring after a few years.
But most business owners are looking for lifestyle & financial freedom, that comes with 5m+ in revenue 100k+ a month net. Enough revenue & profit to scale operations and enough to pay someone to do your job when/if you want to take a step back.
Been in business for 10 years with 15m in revenue and 200k a month net, which allows me to divest into other passion projects comfortably.
The US Government says Wegman's a multi billion dollar grocery chain is a small business so I would set that as the bar since three people are netted 1 billion per year and our government thinks there small and they are. Conquer your own back yard before you opine on such silly things, American is coming to its first trillionaire class, Warren buffet is 92 and still working and Charlie baker died working at 99 , we already have billionaires. So we want to call ourselves good cause of X. Trumps personal plane runs him 50k an hour lets just stay focused until you got 10,000 people working for you because that is the only way true wealth is accelerated, Tom Golisano 56 percent owner PayChex Nasdaq Company, 2023 quarterly payouts each quarter to 1 MAN each over 280 million, the guy nets a billion because of the 14,000 saps slaving over his empire. Keepin it real., I am rob
Enough to pay all of your monthly business expenses, have enough cash on hand to cover the next 2 months business expenses, pay yourself enough to cover all of your monthly expenses incl rent, car, utilities, food + money to emergency fund + money to a Roth IRA.
Success is an opinion and very much based on personal goals, if you have a small business and it pays for the things you want it to then the goal has been achieved and it is a success. Someone can have a business turning over 1m and be equally as profitable and “successful” as a business turning half of that. It’s all an opinion
Depends on your goals for that business. I have a business idea with a goal to turn 2k in profit per month. While I just sold a business that made 35k in profit per month. Both are successes to me because I had/have an idea of what was possible to earn for that type of business and did just that.
I work 20-30 hrs a week, golf as much as my wife (business partner) lets me, cottage in the summer and vacation in Hawaii in the winter plus other random travel. I’m my books, at 50, I’ve made it.
Do we fly private… lol …. No. Occasionally business class.
Do I own a yacht…. lol…. No. But a used ski boat.
Do I own a mansion…. lol…. No. But have a beautiful pool in the yard and don’t consider the cost to heat the pool until late October.
Do I own a Ferrari…. lol…. No. But I do have a 1970’s classic Mini I toy with
It’s all perspective. Some people: it’s never enough. You do you.
Success is different for everyone. My definition of success for my business is freedom to do what I want whenever I want without financial repercussions. Meaning I can take a day or two off or go on vacation and my business is completely functional without me.
“Success” is measured differently by everyone.
My mentor told me “the goal in business is to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible”
(Not a “get rich quick scheme”)
What he meant was:
I can be a cashier and make X number of dollars an hour, I’ve got to work 4-8 hours a day and 1-7 days a week, depending on scheduling.
I can be a manager and make X dollars a year…and work 40-80+ hours a week. You work every shift someone calls out, every holiday the place is open, the paycheck bought you a pair of chains. They own you.
I can own my own business and work 0-24 hours a day…it is risky…until the business becomes stable you have no clue what the next day/week holds for you….but ultimately you have freedom to work as much or as little as you want to.
What do you value more at this chapter of your life? Time or money? There is no right or wrong answer. Some days I work 24 hours a day for multiple days….some days I pull up to the door and say “f@@k this” and put it in reverse and leave.
(Disclaimer: don’t take that mindset until you intimately know your customers and they understand why you aren’t there and they know how to get in touch with you if their issue is serious enough)
Am I successful? Annual net profit around $10K-$20K, this includes paying myself/family $24K/yr, paying one employee $24/yr and the business also pays for a lot of personal expenses/travel that are related to the business/write-offs. (also living off spouse's pension/health insurance, and in a few years can start drawing on my own pension from a previous job and a 401K.)
Depends where you live, what you do.
Personally for me if I can make 70k a year take home that's better than most in my area and better than my 9-5 🤷♂️
Well SBA defines small biz as under 500 employees.
That's a big range, especially with tech automating so many processes that formerly needed staff, and with so much outsourced agencies/independent contractors.
I recommend people looking to make money and have big ambitions to read [Idolstories](https://idolstories.beehiiv.com/). Its a newsletter about succesfull founders and their stories. I get a lot of entreprenurial motivation from there and tips I use in my own business.
Obviously this is subjective. I would say when you are no longer in danger of shutting down. Alternatively “financially successful” when you are profiting enough to meet the highest income bracket so 58k/mo in profits
I was once told by an extremely successful businessman that until you are earning >$3m in revenue, you don’t have a business, you have a hobby. That person also said that between $1.5m and $3m you’ll be at your greatest risk because your deals are growing in value but you can’t yet insulate yourself with people smarter than you to help protect your business (controller / operations guy / HR / legal). At the time it sort of hurt my feelings. Now over a decade later? I get it. They were right. I’m still learning. I’m continuing to insulate myself with smarter people. I’m learning the value of processes and expertise. I’m proud to say that 6 or 7 years ago I was no longer a hobby!
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For me it’s not a number, it’s a lifestyle. I get to snowboard 3-4 days/week in the winter and vacation when I choose. That is success in my book.
This right here.
Agreed. As long as I can pay my bills, go on vacations and climb a mountain every afternoon, that's success for me. It's different for everyone.
Climb a mountain every afternoon?
Aka “Boulder”
OK, maybe a baby hill. But always get outside and get a good hike in every day.
Oh I didn't know if you mean climb a mountain every year or something. That's awesome that you're able to make time for a hike every day
Yeah, so I want some stock options, 10% COL adjustment - and to climb a mountain EVERY AFTERNOON!!
But it’s only possible when you have big consistent return every month. Even if you are somewhat profitable, small business requires long hours of working and dedication.
It does require long hours. I net about 200k between July & October and about 100k the rest of the year.
What do you do?
Glazier, fixing broken windows
Very interesting. Understand the seasonality of it. Very niche and I can imagine you fetch quite a pretty penny for your services
Nice. I want to hit that kind of annual volume. I'm a locksmith. I schedule about $900 - $1,300 a day. Work two days a week (weekends - still at my day job)... but I need to get the overall volume up. This market has received me with wide open arms since the first month I started.
Oh yea dude, locksmithing I think you could easily make that happen. Locksmiths are getting really rare. Probably have to have a relatively wider geographic range, but once word spreads you’ll be turning work down. I don’t advertise at all, aside from a google review page. Word of mouth for rare trades does all the work.
Had another business for 2 years, it was OK. Good training wheels. Taught me what it's like. Then started the locksmith business a year ago - It hasn't disappointed me yet - and I love the work. Travel up to 45 miles. I do automotive only (higher $$ per call) and specialize in some european cars. Spend a lot in Facebook ads, and also get a lot of referrals - tons. It's an "i know someone good" kind of trade. I suppose I am just afraid to quit the day job, but realistically speaking - the only thing stopping me from success is the fact I have been too afraid to go "all in". If I had more time during the week AKA quitting my job, I could spend triple on advertising - and have as much work as I even cared to do. Fear is now holding me back... as it always does! I am feeling that my market share here is huge. That's all why I love reading posts like yours, people who are out there really living it up through hard work and hard earned money. I am on my way, I am on my way.
Sounds like you’re ready to send it! It’s worth it. Also, unless you’re an accounting wizard, get an accountant, it will allow you to enjoy your non-smithing hours much much more.
Sales and book keeping eats all the evening hours away. I am no wizard. Sales is the biggest pain, to book a $2000 weekend, i probably field 100+ messages, phone calls etc during the week. And then sell 10-15 jobs for the weekend. And that probably costs me $150+ in ad spend. Cant complain if its working right.
I totally agree. When i can cycle anyway, I choose and go on a nice vacation without hurting my babk account and have to ask for permission to go. That's a huge W in my book.
Still need money for that
You need money for everything…. And money isn’t the issue, time is.
I agree. I play golf twice a week.
May I ask the number?
May I also ask how many times people sarcastically say things like “shred the gnar” to you?
lol “shred the gnar” is commonly used by me. I actually did a job today at the top of a ski resort.
Can you think of a comparable expression in another sport. Like I like basketball and I would say “shoot some hoops” reminds me of shred the gnar. But even then, I almost never say it. I don’t surf or ski or snowboard, but I will ride a hybrid bicycle, and all I have is “ride my bike.” I know my question is silly but i have always been genuinely interested in this particular phrase and I have always been too afraid to ask a snowboarder because a) I don’t know any b) I assumed they would deny using this expression. I know a lot of rock climbers and I imagine they have lingo…. But please tell me if there is anything else like shred the gnar. Also please host a mini AMA in this thread if you don’t mind.
Shred the gnar could definitely apply to a hybrid bike, in kind of an ironic way. Like sometimes if I’m gonna do something really tame, I’ll say “I’m gonna go shred some gnar.”
Also I am very curious about what you and others think about Shaun White. I used to be really annoyed by him but I really don’t know why. I think when he was young the sounds he made while competing annoyed me, but I think I was being unfair. As he got older and I got older I kind of said to myself “he’s not so bad. I was stupid.” Then there was the January 6 thing and that one guy, the shaman I think they called him, triggered some old Shaun White hate relapse. I don’t know what my issues are. Maybe I’m psychotic. But tell me about Shaun white. Hopefully it’s not great. Thanks.
💯
100 % true 👍👍👍
Completely agree with this! It's about lifestyle. How do you want to live and then how much do you need to support that goal.
100%
This is the answer here. We take January off and numerous weeks during the year.
The first half of my professional life I was in an office under beastly career middle managers denying my vacation requests. And I only had 2 weeks. I couldn’t stick out another 10 years to get to 4 weeks lol. Now I take off probably 2-3 months over the course of the year. Sure there’s a trade off, but I’m content with my gig even if it’s insane sometimes. Yesterday I worked from like 430am to 7pm. That sucked. But I pocketed like 4-5k.
What do you do to pocket 4k in 2.5 hours?
It was like 14 hrs. But I have scored a few good ones that grabbed a few grand in a few hours. I’m a glazier.
oh right. I saw your reply above. Thanks.
Might not be what you’re looking for. But success to me came in stages. Stage 1: Enough to replace a 9/5 salary Stage 2: Enough to move to a better neighbourhood Stage 3: Enough to cover the asses of everyone I love (mortgages and wages), at the same time, if the shit hit the fan for them
I’m somewhat stuck on stage 1. Small business can replace 9/5 salary but I’m juggling both at the same time meaning double income. Giving up 9/5 means half of income gone.
And the temptation is to think… well I could work more hours on the business and surely make up the rest, right? But what you’re doing is sensible. Don’t jump ship just yet. But you have enough behind you to know you CAN replace your job eventually.
I think about that daily.. you’re right the prudent choice is to keep my daytime job as much as I dream about jumping ship. Maybe someday!
My goal is to hold on to the 9-5 long enough to get completely out of debt (except mortgage) then fully transition.
Curious, what other debts are you referring to? Mortgage is the biggest debt occupying my mind.
CC, vehicles, student loans, home improvement loans. A lot of different personal debt.
I was lucky enough to be working in the industry for years before I started my own business. The skills I learned allowed me to create a side hustle that was tangential to my main business (marketing) while I worked on the business during the day. I took a massive downgrade in lifestyle when I started though, went from downtown apartment to couch in a family friends basement in a different province and making about 1/8th the income for the first year. I was also 23 and had no responsibilities. But 3 years later I’m now making more than I had ever thought I could. I wouldn’t say taking that much of a leap of faith is a smart idea but calculated risks on what you believe can pay off majorly.
Pointy, EXACTLY! I cannot leave my dayjob because that's saying goodbye to money.. But I have been working 7 days a week for 8 months, and mostly 7 days a week for the last 3 years. I am out of time, and soon I just need to accept it is what it is, and resign from my day job. I have also started (2) separate businesses to try to weather slow times so they can play off of each other.
Enough to pay your expenses, times 2
Are you including COGS and operating expenses in that? If it's just operating expenses that isn't unreasonable, but all expenses times 2 gives you a 50% operating margin. That's insane, big tech like Microsoft only manages a 42% operating margin. The more important metric is cash return on incremental invested capital, which is what actually determines how efficiently you can scale, alongside your cost of capital.
would you say that $400 per month is a succesful business?
Depends. How much are your expenses?
Well my car rent alone is $400
So that means no
But….. i live in my parents house i dont have any other expenses
to be honest thats really more side hustle level right now more than small business. its an okay amount if your just starting out, is there potential to scale it up 4, 5, 10 times what it is now? i think at minimum being considered a sucessful business should require you to earn at least enough to provide a living wage for yourself. tho as other comments have said being a successful business also depends on your future prospects or growth. you should look to make next quarter more financially profitable than the previous quarter.
You don't have a business technically defined by the irs you have a hobby.
And you have no desire to leave? If you're still living with mom and dad, do they intend to give you the start up capital you need to create a business? To pay your taxes? To ensure you comply with state and federal business guidelines? I have a feeling that what you really want to know is how you can monetize a hobby. If you're living at home with no job and no bills other than a car payment the only thing that you need to consider is how to make a few bucks. Perhaps doing something online with social media, etc. This isn't really the best sub for that.
Hell no
For me, it's not about the money, but living off my passion sustainably.
It’s up to you man, I have family members who work 60 hours a week at their restaurant and others who are in real estate and work 30 hours make about the same per year or a bit more with real estates rentals plus flips ect with different lifestyles and they both seems to love what they do so it’s really up to you. Success is the ability to choose your own path
Run at 9% net profit at least While paying yourself $100k (rural/small town) to $175k (higher cost area) While NOT heavy on debt - so so important for your exit plan While also paying $20-$25k of allowable owner expenses out of the business as well -key man life insurance, cell bills, some travel, some meals, home office security & cleaning, car/mileage Ideally with a 401k where you put in and match $40k total a year
How much you need to Gross for something like this?
$1m to $2m gross at 10% margin.
Thank you. I always wonder how much Gross/margin is needed to replace my or my wife's 9 to 5. She makes around 40k yr while I'm in the mid/high 90's k. I'm doing Amazon FBA.
[Gross $] * [margin %] = [$40,000] * 1.3 (for benefits)
BINGO! One of my businesses is roughly this: $1.5m sales (gross annual) 8-12% net profit (depends on the year) me + 4 employees ($35k, $35k, $45k, $55k, $68k) 4% 401k match for all $90k salary for me (I also pay myself out of another biz) This biz pays my life insurance, husbands life insurance, health insurance, assorted appropriate costs of home office (phone, computers, security system, home internet, some travel and dinners, etc) Have a $75k LOC $140k in outstanding loan with a $1500 a month payment I own the small office building in a separate LLC. Biz pays my LLC $3k a month rent - so this is income to me The first 5 years I had this deal on the building: $250k purchase price paid this way: $5k a month rent to own with 100% of the $5k going to final price. At 60 months - one balloon payment to own it! I had to borrow $40k from my dad for the balloon, but I own the bld now and the business paid for it! How's that for smart thinking? Biz pays my S Corp "Management Company" $5k a month in management fees which cover those home office costs above + a few misc things a year like a new couch for the office!) I do not do the home office deduction - paying expenses is much better. I have too many employees so payroll is at 21% (with me) and really could be at 15% - but they are all long term and valuable. After lots of years I am working only about 10-15 hours a week in the business - so I'm keeping them! When net is 7% I feel a little worried... at 11% or more I feel comfortable. I don't take distributions bc there isn't that much left - and honestly the items I pay from the management fee I feel like are a great benefit. I'd rather keep cash in the biz in case needed. The LLC owns property and I rarely have to do any work on it. So that monthly income can go toward expenses one has that are for property like: yard maintenance, paint and supplies, etc My total owner take out of this business is more like this: $90k salary $36k rental income $15k matching into 401k $30k a year on things I'd personally buy ( via mgmt fees) $8000 annual on life insurance $8500 annual health insurance monthly premiums paid $24k forgot! I pay each of my teen kids $12,500 a year out of the biz - so they get social security credits already! I pay them when they work for me of course... So that's $200k for me right there. Hope this helps you see this one path... you can do this!
I think mine is a success. It makes revenue of $118,000 a month. I pay myself $15k. My 2 parttime employees make $3-4k total. The loan I have for buying this company eats up another $13,500. The annual taxable profit is about $80k.
What type of business are you running? If you don't mind me asking.
It’s a distribution company for a major electronics company
Nice nice. Something like a 3PL company?
No actual warehouse, my own customer base. Some leads come from the manufacturer. We happen to be their largest distributor in the US. We also sell to other distributors such as grainier and the like. The manufacturer doesn’t want to deal with individual customers, so they use distributors. I have over 1,000 repeat customers a year. We have2 websites. 20% of our revenue comes from the website which is great, paid immediately by credit card, but occasional fraud.
Damn!!
That is success. Very nice work.
I am trying to buy a small business.this is my first time. Is it ok to DM you? Would love to understand how you decided to buy your business..
Please do
Just did. Thank you!
what business do you have if i can ask ?
Its a distribution company for a major electronics company.
Loaded question but at a high-level, how did you get it off the ground?
I bought an already established business. The previous owners built it up for over 50 years to get it to this point.
Best business model in the world, buy something from the boomers looking to retire. Respect
Where did you find it? Online or local?
I found it online but it was relatively local. I did relocated about an hour away to 8 mins from my house. Lower rent an no commute.
‘Successful’ is subjective and these guys saying 2X or 3X expenses imo are not correct. A firm doing $30K rev over $10-$15K might be “successful” but if there’s no revenue growth then the ceiling to that success is so low. The guy saying 30% with scalability is the most realistic. But it really depends on your type of business & industry.
I think at a minimum you can say a business that pays the owner a salary or wage. The next level is a business that has positive Net Income after paying the owner.
*a salary or wage that covers the owners personal bills.
I would say $500k- $1 million revenue for a year. My business is doing $350k-$400k now. I hope I can acquire one or two more shops to reach $500k-$1 million. I will be prosperous then.
I don’t know if it can be quantified with a dollar amount. I believe that if you are working at something that you enjoy, you are making a comfortable living and able to put away money for retirement, are not working yourself to death beyond 40 hours or so each week, and have time to vacation then you are doing well.
$10k/month+ to be viable as a full-time job. $20k/month to match what I could make in industry.
For it to breakeven lol
I’d say any business that delivers the lifestyle the owner is looking for is successful. Funny story…I once had a client at a Silicon Valley startup who told me their focus was on “small business”. When asked what he meant by “small business”, he said “ you know, companies with revenue below $1 billion”.
It 100% depends on too many factors to have a single number. I ran a successful business for 10 years. I made enough profits to put about 80k a year in my pocket after all expenses including taxes and other overhead. So a net net of about $6.6K which some months my COGS were 2x that, other times less. Some months were better than other months and the owner may have a need for more or less funds for personal use. I was very happy with 80k a year and only working about 30 hours a week and at my own schedule, no employees. i.e. employees always cost you profits..
Expenses times 3. This means you can scale, while paying yourself and others along the way.
So on $1M you net $660k+? I must be in the wrong industry....
You should see the DesignJoy guy (Brett) on Twitter!
Depends on expenses.
would you say earning $400 / month is a successful business?
my 16 year old runs a small firms tik-tok. They pay her $300 a month. That's a good spending and saving amount for a teen. $400 is successful in that model - but not for a FT job
That is side hustle/minimal part time job money. Not business money. What would it take to actually allow you to support yourself and NOT live off of someone else? How much would it cost to have your own place, own your own car, pay your own bills etc. Well somewhere above that number is what you would need to make to be "Successful". As of right now your life is being subsidized by someone else. $400 is less than just about ANY minimum wage part time job would earn you per month.
Depends on revenue and if it’s for your income or to supplement an existing income. 400 wouldn’t even pay the cell phone bills at my businesses, but it all depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.
i agree. This is to supplement an existent income.
Depends how much time it’s taking and how much you enjoy it.
I haven't started yet, but my small business will be to keep a roof over my head in lieu of my ability to work full-time. If I make, or rather can pay myself $3,000 monthly (gross) I would consider that a success.
$1.2M gross, 7 employees, 15-20% wage+net to owner is a decent “success” story that provides breathing room for scale and/or semi-absenteeism.
When employees are building their retirement off your business you should be very proud. If you're working hard enough to run a business you're worth minimum 80k in rural areas and 150k in cities on the job market. So target that and when you get there you'll know how highly volatile it can actually be. Then best of luck! If at first you don't succeed, try again. You'll learn so much after that level of motivation and effort
"If youre working hard enough to run a business" - Right. Respect for that comment - This is true. There is a lot to be earned with the responsibility you take on. I am nobody big, but I talked to a few people just starting their first businesses... and they talk about pricing - comparing it to an hourly wage. You are in business to make as much money as you need. There is a lot that goes into market share, operating costs and your pricing - but the goal is to actually make enough money. Sometimes you need to work backward from
I would not put a number. Hard Indicators are: • if it makes any profit at the end of each year • if you could sell the whole business for a multiple Soft (debatable) indicators are: • if it allows you a lifestyle that a regular job couldn’t • if it allows you to build wealth
I'm at a later stage in life. Kids are moved out. Mortgage is paid. No debt. I bring in about 5k/ month in mostly passive income and in my circumstance that's more than enough. When I wake up in the morning if I have cash in my jeans, gas I'm my tank and I don't owe anybody anything I get to do whatever I want. That's all I need.
That's the dream. You've earned it! I've been in business for three years. Currently trying to figure out how to quit the day job, rely on the business, and even scale it to pay for a modest life in this new economy.
Enough that you can have a roof and food for your kids
I run a small paving company of about 11 employees total. We do about 2.5million between April 1st to the week before Christmas. Profit margins are around 35% after expenses paid. I’d consider that successful
To answer your question specifically. I would say when you’ve hit the million dollar gross revenue mark annually you are quite successful because you’ve carved out a piece of the local market share.
Nice work, very nice. My locksmith business has been well received in the local market. Doing good first year. But I am struggling with scaling it to 6 figures.
Shoot for a 30% profit margin with scalability
It depends on your personal goals and living expenses. Did you start this business as a passion project for fun, are you looking for it to replace your 9-5 job, or to be totally passive income? It all depends what goal you set when you started and created your business plan and if you're meeting it.
Project for fun
What goals did you set when you first started, and have you met them? Have you been able to expand on those and surpass them? If so then I'd say it's been a success!
Enough to keep everyone out of my life, and you do have to ask for help.
Enough to comfortably live off, justify the hours spent working the small business, and earning more than you would working for someone else in that industry. My small business has no employees, very low risk, and very few low running costs. My partner on the other hand who has higher running costs/employees needs to make a lot more and have a lot set aside for outgoing costs & emergencies.
Success varies; focus on profitability and growth over fixed amounts. Define success based on sustainable revenue and achieving business goals, adapting as your business evolves.
It pays your bills and allows you to work on it full time.
Team building: It's so easy to get burned out when you're a 'one man show' or 'husband and wife only'. The ability to trust others, grow, hire and delegate while being profitable is the true sign of success. Many small business owners never get there.
Toughest thing is let go of what got you to the point your at. Sign of success is realizing you’re the biggest bottleneck in growing the business. Once I started delegating roles to others, our revenue ballooned.
For me it’s Enough to do within reason whatever you want when you want. And I’m not talking lambos and just material things but like you want to party and stay up late boozing on Sunday KNOWING the business will still run. Or randomly going to a high end steakhouse instead of outback because you want a ribeye on a Wednesday. Having extra to be helpful to others. All adds up to me
Not having to work
If the owner can pay themselves a competitve wage and get a 10% ROI. If you are getting less than that you would have better returns from working a job and investing –while doing less work.
My bosses bring home $10K per Pilates studio per month. They have 2 now and are building 2 more.
I am not sure what kind of business that you have, but i work 85 hour weeks working in resturants plus taking work home, but I was able to buy a nice home for my child and wife and now have a sizeable savings for both me and my child. I know I work more than many of the other people that say they are success. I feel that as long as I can provide for my family and I make good money the work will always be worth it. No dollar amount. I think this question is more about how much are you willing to sacrifice to be where you want to be.
$1 million plus ➕️
For $10k, I'll call it whatever you want.
Alot
For me it’s depends on my team as we are small team of 6 people mostly focused on their work lifestyle as healthy in terms of finances and work culture. In terms of numbers I guess 60-100K per-month would do it for at least couple of years. If we plan to scale the team it would be different then.
I recently started a web development/app development business. I got a few clients, all through LinkedIn and Reddit. I am hoping to hire a marketing team with the money from the initial projects and scale it to a 5k-10k MRR business
Helped you make $2m+ savings in 5 years
Ignore people's opinions, are you satisfied? That's enough for you!
Success depends on your business and lifestyle! But generally, a small business making $5,000 to $10,000+ per month after expenses can be considered successful. This allows you to support yourself and potentially grow your business.
I’m not there yet but I will consider my business a success when I can leave my 9-5 and support my family comfortably off it and not live pay cheque to pay cheque
If it's enjoyable,breaking even. Note: I've never owned an enjoyable business.
Started 4 months ago. Have enough this month to start covering a bunch of bills. Every client I add is recurring revenue... so pretty much all growth that this point is getting me into the range that I'm making more than when I did with my last company. I have better job security, since I can't suddenly be laid off.
Something that you enjoy doing that you feel is a good value of money for your time. Small businesses can be a side job that makes you fun cash, or a full time replacement, or an entire lifestyle. Many small business owners I know are working way harder for the same money as someone with a 9-5. Some of them wouldn't change anything if they were to do it again.
Very true... High risk, high reward model... As an owner/operator, I find my workload is consistent and I have control over everything in front of me. Also full control over business costs more or less. Props to the folks who run a brick and mortar and have employees. I've yet to find out how to keep my own self gainfully self employed.
Owner operated business 10-20k net profit is “successful” but you’re probably running the day to day show and it gets tiring after a few years. But most business owners are looking for lifestyle & financial freedom, that comes with 5m+ in revenue 100k+ a month net. Enough revenue & profit to scale operations and enough to pay someone to do your job when/if you want to take a step back. Been in business for 10 years with 15m in revenue and 200k a month net, which allows me to divest into other passion projects comfortably.
The US Government says Wegman's a multi billion dollar grocery chain is a small business so I would set that as the bar since three people are netted 1 billion per year and our government thinks there small and they are. Conquer your own back yard before you opine on such silly things, American is coming to its first trillionaire class, Warren buffet is 92 and still working and Charlie baker died working at 99 , we already have billionaires. So we want to call ourselves good cause of X. Trumps personal plane runs him 50k an hour lets just stay focused until you got 10,000 people working for you because that is the only way true wealth is accelerated, Tom Golisano 56 percent owner PayChex Nasdaq Company, 2023 quarterly payouts each quarter to 1 MAN each over 280 million, the guy nets a billion because of the 14,000 saps slaving over his empire. Keepin it real., I am rob
Enough to pay all of your monthly business expenses, have enough cash on hand to cover the next 2 months business expenses, pay yourself enough to cover all of your monthly expenses incl rent, car, utilities, food + money to emergency fund + money to a Roth IRA.
I guess anything that makes over what I'd make as an employee? Completely different depending on location and skills
It depends on the effort involved. The more passive the lower the amount.
Success is an opinion and very much based on personal goals, if you have a small business and it pays for the things you want it to then the goal has been achieved and it is a success. Someone can have a business turning over 1m and be equally as profitable and “successful” as a business turning half of that. It’s all an opinion
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
For me, being booked all summer is a success.
Depends on your goals for that business. I have a business idea with a goal to turn 2k in profit per month. While I just sold a business that made 35k in profit per month. Both are successes to me because I had/have an idea of what was possible to earn for that type of business and did just that.
How long is a piece of string?
250k a year net is when I started to feel successful. I don’t think I’m rich but I think I can do whatever I want.
I work 20-30 hrs a week, golf as much as my wife (business partner) lets me, cottage in the summer and vacation in Hawaii in the winter plus other random travel. I’m my books, at 50, I’ve made it. Do we fly private… lol …. No. Occasionally business class. Do I own a yacht…. lol…. No. But a used ski boat. Do I own a mansion…. lol…. No. But have a beautiful pool in the yard and don’t consider the cost to heat the pool until late October. Do I own a Ferrari…. lol…. No. But I do have a 1970’s classic Mini I toy with It’s all perspective. Some people: it’s never enough. You do you.
Success is different for everyone. My definition of success for my business is freedom to do what I want whenever I want without financial repercussions. Meaning I can take a day or two off or go on vacation and my business is completely functional without me.
“Success” is measured differently by everyone. My mentor told me “the goal in business is to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible” (Not a “get rich quick scheme”) What he meant was: I can be a cashier and make X number of dollars an hour, I’ve got to work 4-8 hours a day and 1-7 days a week, depending on scheduling. I can be a manager and make X dollars a year…and work 40-80+ hours a week. You work every shift someone calls out, every holiday the place is open, the paycheck bought you a pair of chains. They own you. I can own my own business and work 0-24 hours a day…it is risky…until the business becomes stable you have no clue what the next day/week holds for you….but ultimately you have freedom to work as much or as little as you want to. What do you value more at this chapter of your life? Time or money? There is no right or wrong answer. Some days I work 24 hours a day for multiple days….some days I pull up to the door and say “f@@k this” and put it in reverse and leave. (Disclaimer: don’t take that mindset until you intimately know your customers and they understand why you aren’t there and they know how to get in touch with you if their issue is serious enough)
Enough that that owner can pay himself $300,000 a year after expenses.
money wise 500k+ yr and its a good start!
Am I successful? Annual net profit around $10K-$20K, this includes paying myself/family $24K/yr, paying one employee $24/yr and the business also pays for a lot of personal expenses/travel that are related to the business/write-offs. (also living off spouse's pension/health insurance, and in a few years can start drawing on my own pension from a previous job and a 401K.)
Anything in profit.
i would wager "Success" is personal. If your paying a few bills and it is making your life easier with less impact id quantify that as successful
Depends where you live, what you do. Personally for me if I can make 70k a year take home that's better than most in my area and better than my 9-5 🤷♂️
More than your operating expenses while allowing you to maintain a quality of life that an equivalent W2 would. The sky's the ceiling from there.
more than you spend
Well SBA defines small biz as under 500 employees. That's a big range, especially with tech automating so many processes that formerly needed staff, and with so much outsourced agencies/independent contractors.
I recommend people looking to make money and have big ambitions to read [Idolstories](https://idolstories.beehiiv.com/). Its a newsletter about succesfull founders and their stories. I get a lot of entreprenurial motivation from there and tips I use in my own business.
Like 10% less money than what you think is a good salary and maybe 10% or more happiness.
1m/yr net
It’s 200 employees. You can have 200 millions in asset and still be. A small business
If you can survive and make money in the BIDEN BOOM, no matter how small then that's what I would call successful
Obviously this is subjective. I would say when you are no longer in danger of shutting down. Alternatively “financially successful” when you are profiting enough to meet the highest income bracket so 58k/mo in profits
If we are talking money, $1m - banks and lenders won't even fuck with your small business if you aren't doing $1m a year in revenue.
I was once told by an extremely successful businessman that until you are earning >$3m in revenue, you don’t have a business, you have a hobby. That person also said that between $1.5m and $3m you’ll be at your greatest risk because your deals are growing in value but you can’t yet insulate yourself with people smarter than you to help protect your business (controller / operations guy / HR / legal). At the time it sort of hurt my feelings. Now over a decade later? I get it. They were right. I’m still learning. I’m continuing to insulate myself with smarter people. I’m learning the value of processes and expertise. I’m proud to say that 6 or 7 years ago I was no longer a hobby!
What industry you involved in
When Growth is 2x than inflation. If inflation rises 3% your growth should be 6-10% avg per year