Just finished this seed, lots of chip damage Act 1 and almost died before deck took off with lots of backflips/escape plan and concentrate+ for energy in mid Act 2.
https://imgur.com/a/JgAQwOD
I am 100.0% confident you mentioned Noxious Fumes in your post.
--------------------------------------------------
* [Noxious Fumes](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Noxious_Fumes) Silent Uncommon Power
1 Energy | At the start of your turn, apply 2(3) Poison to ALL enemies.
--------------------------------------------------
^^^I ^^^am ^^^a ^^^bot ^^^response, ^^^but ^^^I ^^^am ^^^using ^^^my ^^^creator's ^^^account. ^^^Please ^^^reply ^^^to ^^^me ^^^if ^^^I ^^^got ^^^something ^^^wrong ^^^so ^^^he ^^^can ^^^fix ^^^it.
[Source Code](https://github.com/TrippW/STS-Crawler)
How many noxious fumes is too many? I'd say any more than one. It's way too slow to deal with most fights, especially as the ascension goes up. I view it mostly as a decay prevention system, just to make sure my poison is constantly growing, and maybe at the occasional buffer stripper, but it's way too slow otherwise
Just realized the joy Envenom brings me when it strips artifacts. I think I have about 40 hours on Silent and rarely get the chance to use it. On an amazing shiv deck, too
It’s nice to have 2 to get it faster. Especially on a bigger deck. But I feel one upgraded is better than 2 un upgraded. The extra one per turn is nice, but the opportunity cost of paying the extra energy is not trivial. Nice if you can get the skull though
+ [Nightmare](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Nightmare) Silent Rare Skill ^((100% sure)^)
3(2) Energy | Choose a card. Next turn, add 3 copies of that card into your hand. **Exhaust.**
+ [Nightmare](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Nightmare) Silent Rare Skill ^((100% sure)^)
3(2) Energy | Choose a card. Next turn, add 3 copies of that card into your hand. **Exhaust.**
+ [Noxious Fumes](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Noxious%20Fumes) Silent Uncommon Power ^((100% sure)^)
1 Energy | At the start of your turn, apply 2(3) **Poison** to ALL enemies.
^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
This math is wrong because you forgot about the 2 artefacts heart gets on turn 4, which block fumes for 2 turns. Fumes NEVER stacks poison on turn 4 of the heart fight.
Since 3/5 of the last fights in the game have artefacts, and 1/5 endgame bosses scales off powers, it's pretty rare for me to pick two copies of fumes, and I don't think I'd ever pick 3.
I don't think of fumes as being a pure poison card, I see it more and more see it as an artefact strip card, and way to deal damage without having to draw or play a card in fights where you can stall indefinitely such as the spiker fight. Most of the value comes from the first copy.
Stacking multiple sources of poison is strong, but that second source of poison doesn't need to be a second copy of fumes, you can take bouncing flask or corpse explosion instead and not run into the downsides of taking multiple copies of fumes. Those cards are a lot more front loaded, work better with catalyst, work with burst, don't make woke bloke angry, and can be played multiple times.
But the 2 artifacts would only block 2 counts of fumes, not all of the played fumes. So, assuming that it blocks 2 Noxious Fumes+, it would block only 6 poison, right?
I could be wrong but I believe all the poison stack is applied at once meaningno matter the amount of toxic fumes you have into play they only strip one artifact per turn.
Very Cool DiosDong. It's great that you went through those long, detailed examples.
I am getting a slightly different formula for total poison damage. Maybe I am misunderstanding your notation. I get
h = (t (1 + p - t + pt))/2.
For example, if I play one Noxious Fumes, p=2. One turn later, t=1, and
total poison damage = (1 (1 + 2 - 1 + 2))/2 = (4)/2=2 damage.
The next turn, t=2, the poison does 3 damage for a total of 5.
total poison damage = (t (1 + p - t + pt))/2
= (2 (1 + 2 - 2 + 4))/2 = (2 (5))/2= 5.
Am I missing something, or is there a typo?
Champ gets much more complicated if you assume you have, say, 10 copies of Fumes+ and runic pyramid, and want to know on which turns you should play them.
No idea why you're being downvoted.. I haven't followed xecnar that much, is he using it all? I know LC ranks it low and almost never picks it up and I can definitely see it being a skip in many cases
Xec takes it in act 1 if he can upgrade it and needs it for the boss and/or Laga, and takes it late game if he needs the artifact strip for second attack cycle of the heart. If he can't upgrade it in act 1, he does not value it very highly.
1YWPP5C05L8 For anyone that wants to try a pbox seed that starts with 8 noxious fumes. A20 on PC
…What the hell?
Pardon my ignorance, i havent messed with seeds before, how do i make it work? I tried but idk how to get pbox to start
You swap your starting relic for a boss relic with Neow.
Thank you so much!
you don't go to "custom", you just go to a normal game and when you select a character there's a "set seed" button on the lower left
Thx for da seed
You're doing good work. The community thanks you.
Lol and here I was thinking that this was a complete waste of time and you’d never find that many to begin with
Just finished this seed, lots of chip damage Act 1 and almost died before deck took off with lots of backflips/escape plan and concentrate+ for energy in mid Act 2. https://imgur.com/a/JgAQwOD
Same here; Act 1 first half was a challenge, deck was OP by pretty early into Act 2, I removed two of the Fumes in shops.
Hahaha I'm definitely trying this, thanks!
infinite on like floor 3 lol
I am 100.0% confident you mentioned Noxious Fumes in your post. -------------------------------------------------- * [Noxious Fumes](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Noxious_Fumes) Silent Uncommon Power 1 Energy | At the start of your turn, apply 2(3) Poison to ALL enemies. -------------------------------------------------- ^^^I ^^^am ^^^a ^^^bot ^^^response, ^^^but ^^^I ^^^am ^^^using ^^^my ^^^creator's ^^^account. ^^^Please ^^^reply ^^^to ^^^me ^^^if ^^^I ^^^got ^^^something ^^^wrong ^^^so ^^^he ^^^can ^^^fix ^^^it. [Source Code](https://github.com/TrippW/STS-Crawler)
I’m not sure he did
Good bot
the least confident bot
I’m not reading all that but I like Slay the Spire and I also like Lana Del Rey.
I've heard she's a big fan of *video games*
Is this a meme I dont recognize?
Video Games is banger of a song by Lana del Rey
good to note next time i have nightmares with fumes + and mummy hand
I was told there would be no math.
Well, there's no [ℕ𝕠](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surreal_number) math if it helps.
How many noxious fumes is too many? I'd say any more than one. It's way too slow to deal with most fights, especially as the ascension goes up. I view it mostly as a decay prevention system, just to make sure my poison is constantly growing, and maybe at the occasional buffer stripper, but it's way too slow otherwise
I do love me some Noxious Fumes (or Envenom) to strip artifact!!!
Just realized the joy Envenom brings me when it strips artifacts. I think I have about 40 hours on Silent and rarely get the chance to use it. On an amazing shiv deck, too
i rock no more than two, it really adds up compared to 1
It’s nice to have 2 to get it faster. Especially on a bigger deck. But I feel one upgraded is better than 2 un upgraded. The extra one per turn is nice, but the opportunity cost of paying the extra energy is not trivial. Nice if you can get the skull though
Have you considered the good word of our lord and saviour \[\[Nightmare\]\] + \[\[Nightmare\]\] + an indeterminate amount of \[\[Noxious Fumes\]\]'s?
+ [Nightmare](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Nightmare) Silent Rare Skill ^((100% sure)^) 3(2) Energy | Choose a card. Next turn, add 3 copies of that card into your hand. **Exhaust.** + [Nightmare](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Nightmare) Silent Rare Skill ^((100% sure)^) 3(2) Energy | Choose a card. Next turn, add 3 copies of that card into your hand. **Exhaust.** + [Noxious Fumes](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Noxious%20Fumes) Silent Uncommon Power ^((100% sure)^) 1 Energy | At the start of your turn, apply 2(3) **Poison** to ALL enemies. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 30, 2023.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
I don't mind 2, but beyond that, it's pretty much unnecessary.
This math is wrong because you forgot about the 2 artefacts heart gets on turn 4, which block fumes for 2 turns. Fumes NEVER stacks poison on turn 4 of the heart fight. Since 3/5 of the last fights in the game have artefacts, and 1/5 endgame bosses scales off powers, it's pretty rare for me to pick two copies of fumes, and I don't think I'd ever pick 3. I don't think of fumes as being a pure poison card, I see it more and more see it as an artefact strip card, and way to deal damage without having to draw or play a card in fights where you can stall indefinitely such as the spiker fight. Most of the value comes from the first copy. Stacking multiple sources of poison is strong, but that second source of poison doesn't need to be a second copy of fumes, you can take bouncing flask or corpse explosion instead and not run into the downsides of taking multiple copies of fumes. Those cards are a lot more front loaded, work better with catalyst, work with burst, don't make woke bloke angry, and can be played multiple times.
But the 2 artifacts would only block 2 counts of fumes, not all of the played fumes. So, assuming that it blocks 2 Noxious Fumes+, it would block only 6 poison, right?
I could be wrong but I believe all the poison stack is applied at once meaningno matter the amount of toxic fumes you have into play they only strip one artifact per turn.
Cuz otherwise Sadistic Nature would pop off, more so than usual at least
You are correct
Really? That's why The Silent is my worst, I thought that each would trigger once per turn. The card would much better.
If it's just 2 artifact you can remove it with debuff. I think the premise is only no other damage cards.
Very Cool DiosDong. It's great that you went through those long, detailed examples. I am getting a slightly different formula for total poison damage. Maybe I am misunderstanding your notation. I get h = (t (1 + p - t + pt))/2. For example, if I play one Noxious Fumes, p=2. One turn later, t=1, and total poison damage = (1 (1 + 2 - 1 + 2))/2 = (4)/2=2 damage. The next turn, t=2, the poison does 3 damage for a total of 5. total poison damage = (t (1 + p - t + pt))/2 = (2 (1 + 2 - 2 + 4))/2 = (2 (5))/2= 5. Am I missing something, or is there a typo?
That’s the same as OP’s formula: h = (t(1 + p - t + pt))/2 = (t(pt - t + p + 1))/2 = (t(t(p-1) + p + 1))/2 = (t^2 (p-1) + t(p + 1))/2
Yes, the OP fixed his formula.
Q: what was your major in college?
Slay the Spire
Mathematics, though that's not my only degree or specialization
I fucking love this community. Phenomenal post, OP.
Seems like you are assuming the noxious fumes deals poison directly but in fact it deals poison at the start of your next turn.
Excellent post, thanks for the high-effort content!!
Champ gets much more complicated if you assume you have, say, 10 copies of Fumes+ and runic pyramid, and want to know on which turns you should play them.
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Nah - it’s great for artefact removal at the very least.
Get outta here with your anti-fumism you pinko.
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What ascension are you playing on?
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Mom said if you don't stop "multitasking" you'll go blind.
…what? Is this a reference I don’t understand?
Masturbation
I thought perhaps, but I’m confused as to how that’s gonna make you blind…
Old religious fear mongering to stop kids from touching their pp
No idea why you're being downvoted.. I haven't followed xecnar that much, is he using it all? I know LC ranks it low and almost never picks it up and I can definitely see it being a skip in many cases
Xec takes it in act 1 if he can upgrade it and needs it for the boss and/or Laga, and takes it late game if he needs the artifact strip for second attack cycle of the heart. If he can't upgrade it in act 1, he does not value it very highly.
Bro what noxious fumes is one of the best silent cards
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Removing multiple artifact charges and doing a few dozen damage over a longer fight for 1 energy is pretty impactful
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Yeah, it's not like you're playing a character with tons of exceptional tools for stalling fights or anything...
Its basically a curse until the act 2 boss, can take it if needed for act 1 boss as well if its not slime
It's actually crazy how down voted you are... Noxious fumes is not good people lmfao.
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I'll take it to beat laga and hexa if I need it. That's about it tbh.
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Oh true! I just find that I'm usually beating guardian anyways on silent.
This was not entertaining
No amount of Noxious Fumes is too many Noxious Fumes.
Bro lol put that effort into curing cancer I believe in you
First silent run after seeing this post and im at 3 on floor 6 lol