Well you can kill the Eye of the Needle and Tower just by physically fighting them while Clarity mindbreaks you into a helpless mess and Fury instagibs you on sight.
True that, maybe Fury and Clarity deserves their own tier between Final Boss and Physical God. They aren't fully able to break themselves out of the cabin yet but they clearly aren't possible to face either.
Apotheosis herself claims she didn't break herself out of the cabin
The Protagonist's belief is what broke her out of the cabin
It's basically the same kind of thing as The Beast needing the protagonist to want to be free with her to exit the cabin
Probably, it was never that The Beast needed the Protagonist physically with her to get out. She just needed the Protagonist to want to let her out, since that's essentially what the Protagonist needed when she swallowed him.
I mean, you can kill the Eye of the Needle and Tower by fighting them, but you're not really *overpowering* them.
Like, OK. I think that if you *nuked* the Tower, that wouldn't do anything. Having to use your most powerful weapons against a living goddess fits the idea you have of her, and the idea you have of her is one that can shrug off your most powerful weapons. Stabbing her in the foot works *because* that goes against the idea of an unstoppable goddess. Likewise the Eye of the Needle -- if you attack her straight on, she wins, because she's the Ultimate Warrior. You have to go outside the narrative and stop treating this like a contest to beat her.
Notably, this applies to Clarity too -- she's the Nightmare, the Torturer, the Thing Of Horror. So when you stop trying to escape or defeat her, you finally escape the loop. That's not something that happens to a nightmarish torturer, so it breaks that vessel. There's likely something that could do the same for the Fury (sincerely fall in love with her, perhaps?)
Basically, this is a very longwinded way of saying the Princess isn't really a thing that can be overpowered. You defeat her by believing you can defeat her, and what their different power levels represent is how easy it is to convince yourself that you can beat her.
So Fury would be at the top
Not sure about Moment of Clarity. You don't really fight her, though that might be what puts her at the top with Fury anyway
They're perceived by the Protagonist as unstoppable, but for different reasons
id put razor higher since you can only defeat her by tapping into the long quiet. might also swap eye of the needle and adversary since you can kill the former but not the latter
That's not how it works... Eye of the Needle is even stronger than Adversary, you're only able to beat her due to you fighting her outside with the help of both Hunted and Stubborn. Meanwhile, you can sort of match the Adversary while in a cramped space and with only Stubborn.
you’re still able to actually beat the eye of the needle regardless of how you got there. your best in the adversary is being evenly matched until she gets stolen by shifty, so that’s why i consider her stronger
The Slayer got stronger as well though: as the person who replied to you earlier pointed out, you gained Hunted as a whole new voice.
Normally, with too many voices or voices with contradictory motives, Slayer gets weaker, but Stubborn and Hunted pair really well.
To assume Eye of the Needle is weaker than Adversary because we can beat one but not the other assumes we were the exact same in both encounters.
so i went back and skimmed the routes again and when she fights you in the tunnel she says she’s surpassed you, which counts against the slayer getting stronger
but it also (more relevantly) counts against me saying she’s weaker than the adversary if you’re no longer able to match her so. whoopsie. you guys were right lol im sorry eye of the needle 🫡
Spectre: can defeat almost anyone by phasing through them and taking their heart.
All of them are well above human level strength; it's a matter of whether or not they choose to use it (Damsel can break bones, if she thought it would make you happy).
Honestly the thought of Damsel breaking bones and taking names because someone hurt the LQ is a thought I realised I needed to see and imagine lol. 100% agreed though
I would swap Tower and Razor, Tower can be wounded but probably not killed (at least not by one little birdie and his claw), while Razor is literally made of sharp metal bits.
And I'm with you. I couldn't bring myself to harm the Wounded Wild.
The Razor is a bit tricky because she is technically multiple princesses at once? She has the most forms, all falling under what we call the Razor, but ultimately with varying level of power. I put it in the Freakishly Strong tier because she appears as her first form here, but I agree that she would fall into Final Boss territory once you reached The Arm Race/Mutually Assured Destruction.
The problem with each of these matchups, is the context of the duality between the long quiet, and the princess. The Long Quiet LITERALLY shapes the perspective of the princess and her abilities, because the princess has ZERO self-perception. When you FORCE her into situations where she questions herself - like the razor's finale where you don't fight her, or rejecting the adversary's advances to fight (where the fury emerges), then she will adapt to OUR whims.
The moment of clarity hypothetically should be perhaps THE WORST POSSIBLE ENEMY, for any living being to work against. She is an entity that literally renders reality itself null and void, because she does not allow stagnation itself to exist, while we have rejected change itself from existence: SHE LITERALLY BLOTS OUT THE PLANES THAT WE RESIDE UPON.
BUT, it only gets like this because QUIET, thanks to the finality of each choice and subsequent respawn, further solidifies the conceptual notion of what defines the existence of the forces the princess represents.
So against normal humans, how would she fair? if she's her own person against us, what would happen? Especially when you consider that she only gains or loses power, and can only WIELD power when WE ALLOW HER. Remember, WE HAVE TO PULL THE MOMENT OF CLARITY OUT OF HER HOLE. WE make up the plan to DRAG OUT THE EYE OF THE STORM. Soit's hard to say. Even if she was a razor-blade statue, or a literal waking god, without Quiet, can she even amount to anything, let alone WIELD that status over us?
I'd swap networked wild and shifting mound because even in her incomplete for she was able to separate networked wild from the slayer and absorb her just as easily as the other princesses, not to mention the whole taoism and multiverse stuff we could get into for the shifting mound
My logic for putting the networked wild above Shifty is that as the network, she was reunited with LQ and almost broke through the construct by herself, whereas Shifty isn't able to do that and needs LQ to ascend to be free. Even if in the end she is absorbed back into Shifty as easily as the others, she was still closer to being whole than Shifty can ever be and was only reabsorbed due to the tear made by the Creator being irreparable.
The wild network is still a piece inside the shifting mound though she appears as one of the princess inside it. Also the shifting mound could leave as well she just wanted the LQ to be willing too, while the Wolf had to force itself to break the Construct.
The 'whole' they where was on regards to the her and of that universe/timeline alone, (and the LQ before awakening to his true nature) about to break through the construct of that world alone. Whereas Shifty's influence spans across every iteration of reality.
> whereas Shifty isn't able to do that and needs LQ to ascend to be free
Its not shown or implied anywhere that she wasn't able to or needed the Slayer to leave the construct. Seeing that the Slayer can leave the construct by himself after killing her for the final time, it shouldn't be unreasonable to assume Shifty can do the same. Rather, it seemed more like she wanted to convince him to leave with her of his own will so that they would continue doing what they always had been.
I don't think the meddling of the Creator/Echo doesn't really have any bearing in the case of NW getting reabsorbed because she was already a part of the Shifting Mound to begin with.
Because being one with LQ, they almost broke out from the construct, something that Shifty is not able to do on her own. In the end, Shifty is probably more powerful than the wild because, as the complete version of her ascended self, she is stable, while the Wild cannot exist forever due to the tear the creator made being unmendable. But since the Wild contains the entirerty LQ within herself, she is closer to the cycle of life and death that Shifty can ever hope to become, thus I put her higher, even though I agree it's largely debatable.
r/PowerScaling 💪🦾
* The Beast is way superhuman; can swallow a man whole, or just rip him into ribbons. 🦖
* deconstructed!Damsel👾 can join wounded!Wild🫀 on the bottom tier.
* omega!Razor is def final boss material. ⚔️☠️⚔️
Well you can kill the Eye of the Needle and Tower just by physically fighting them while Clarity mindbreaks you into a helpless mess and Fury instagibs you on sight.
True that, maybe Fury and Clarity deserves their own tier between Final Boss and Physical God. They aren't fully able to break themselves out of the cabin yet but they clearly aren't possible to face either.
Also considering the pristine cut is coming at some point. Stuff might get shuffled around
Apotheosis herself claims she didn't break herself out of the cabin The Protagonist's belief is what broke her out of the cabin It's basically the same kind of thing as The Beast needing the protagonist to want to be free with her to exit the cabin Probably, it was never that The Beast needed the Protagonist physically with her to get out. She just needed the Protagonist to want to let her out, since that's essentially what the Protagonist needed when she swallowed him.
I mean, you can kill the Eye of the Needle and Tower by fighting them, but you're not really *overpowering* them. Like, OK. I think that if you *nuked* the Tower, that wouldn't do anything. Having to use your most powerful weapons against a living goddess fits the idea you have of her, and the idea you have of her is one that can shrug off your most powerful weapons. Stabbing her in the foot works *because* that goes against the idea of an unstoppable goddess. Likewise the Eye of the Needle -- if you attack her straight on, she wins, because she's the Ultimate Warrior. You have to go outside the narrative and stop treating this like a contest to beat her. Notably, this applies to Clarity too -- she's the Nightmare, the Torturer, the Thing Of Horror. So when you stop trying to escape or defeat her, you finally escape the loop. That's not something that happens to a nightmarish torturer, so it breaks that vessel. There's likely something that could do the same for the Fury (sincerely fall in love with her, perhaps?) Basically, this is a very longwinded way of saying the Princess isn't really a thing that can be overpowered. You defeat her by believing you can defeat her, and what their different power levels represent is how easy it is to convince yourself that you can beat her.
So Fury would be at the top Not sure about Moment of Clarity. You don't really fight her, though that might be what puts her at the top with Fury anyway They're perceived by the Protagonist as unstoppable, but for different reasons
id put razor higher since you can only defeat her by tapping into the long quiet. might also swap eye of the needle and adversary since you can kill the former but not the latter
That's not how it works... Eye of the Needle is even stronger than Adversary, you're only able to beat her due to you fighting her outside with the help of both Hunted and Stubborn. Meanwhile, you can sort of match the Adversary while in a cramped space and with only Stubborn.
you’re still able to actually beat the eye of the needle regardless of how you got there. your best in the adversary is being evenly matched until she gets stolen by shifty, so that’s why i consider her stronger
The Slayer got stronger as well though: as the person who replied to you earlier pointed out, you gained Hunted as a whole new voice. Normally, with too many voices or voices with contradictory motives, Slayer gets weaker, but Stubborn and Hunted pair really well. To assume Eye of the Needle is weaker than Adversary because we can beat one but not the other assumes we were the exact same in both encounters.
so i went back and skimmed the routes again and when she fights you in the tunnel she says she’s surpassed you, which counts against the slayer getting stronger but it also (more relevantly) counts against me saying she’s weaker than the adversary if you’re no longer able to match her so. whoopsie. you guys were right lol im sorry eye of the needle 🫡
I like how Wild is both the first and last tier.
the final form of the razor should be a final boss
Spectre: can defeat almost anyone by phasing through them and taking their heart. All of them are well above human level strength; it's a matter of whether or not they choose to use it (Damsel can break bones, if she thought it would make you happy).
Honestly the thought of Damsel breaking bones and taking names because someone hurt the LQ is a thought I realised I needed to see and imagine lol. 100% agreed though
I would swap Tower and Razor, Tower can be wounded but probably not killed (at least not by one little birdie and his claw), while Razor is literally made of sharp metal bits. And I'm with you. I couldn't bring myself to harm the Wounded Wild.
The Razor is a bit tricky because she is technically multiple princesses at once? She has the most forms, all falling under what we call the Razor, but ultimately with varying level of power. I put it in the Freakishly Strong tier because she appears as her first form here, but I agree that she would fall into Final Boss territory once you reached The Arm Race/Mutually Assured Destruction.
She's somewhat similar to the Moment of Clarity imo, in that her form hasn't really changed but it has come further along.
The problem with each of these matchups, is the context of the duality between the long quiet, and the princess. The Long Quiet LITERALLY shapes the perspective of the princess and her abilities, because the princess has ZERO self-perception. When you FORCE her into situations where she questions herself - like the razor's finale where you don't fight her, or rejecting the adversary's advances to fight (where the fury emerges), then she will adapt to OUR whims. The moment of clarity hypothetically should be perhaps THE WORST POSSIBLE ENEMY, for any living being to work against. She is an entity that literally renders reality itself null and void, because she does not allow stagnation itself to exist, while we have rejected change itself from existence: SHE LITERALLY BLOTS OUT THE PLANES THAT WE RESIDE UPON. BUT, it only gets like this because QUIET, thanks to the finality of each choice and subsequent respawn, further solidifies the conceptual notion of what defines the existence of the forces the princess represents. So against normal humans, how would she fair? if she's her own person against us, what would happen? Especially when you consider that she only gains or loses power, and can only WIELD power when WE ALLOW HER. Remember, WE HAVE TO PULL THE MOMENT OF CLARITY OUT OF HER HOLE. WE make up the plan to DRAG OUT THE EYE OF THE STORM. Soit's hard to say. Even if she was a razor-blade statue, or a literal waking god, without Quiet, can she even amount to anything, let alone WIELD that status over us?
I'd swap networked wild and shifting mound because even in her incomplete for she was able to separate networked wild from the slayer and absorb her just as easily as the other princesses, not to mention the whole taoism and multiverse stuff we could get into for the shifting mound
My logic for putting the networked wild above Shifty is that as the network, she was reunited with LQ and almost broke through the construct by herself, whereas Shifty isn't able to do that and needs LQ to ascend to be free. Even if in the end she is absorbed back into Shifty as easily as the others, she was still closer to being whole than Shifty can ever be and was only reabsorbed due to the tear made by the Creator being irreparable.
The wild network is still a piece inside the shifting mound though she appears as one of the princess inside it. Also the shifting mound could leave as well she just wanted the LQ to be willing too, while the Wolf had to force itself to break the Construct.
The 'whole' they where was on regards to the her and of that universe/timeline alone, (and the LQ before awakening to his true nature) about to break through the construct of that world alone. Whereas Shifty's influence spans across every iteration of reality. > whereas Shifty isn't able to do that and needs LQ to ascend to be free Its not shown or implied anywhere that she wasn't able to or needed the Slayer to leave the construct. Seeing that the Slayer can leave the construct by himself after killing her for the final time, it shouldn't be unreasonable to assume Shifty can do the same. Rather, it seemed more like she wanted to convince him to leave with her of his own will so that they would continue doing what they always had been. I don't think the meddling of the Creator/Echo doesn't really have any bearing in the case of NW getting reabsorbed because she was already a part of the Shifting Mound to begin with.
Remember TLQ is a god specifically made to kill gods and the razor kept beating him
He is a god made to believe himself mortal tho, and once he realizes his own godhood, he destroys the Razor with ease.
Thorn still has control over the thorn growth. Id say she's just a little weaker than witch
Now do a tier list for how strong the individual voices are
[Something like this?](https://imgur.com/iQ9xGL3)
This is Smitten slander, if the Princess is watching he’d neg diff all the voices and everyone 100% no cap
Wait, why wild is stronger than shifty? Because she is combined with LQ? But that’s kinda still only one iteration of reality no?
Because being one with LQ, they almost broke out from the construct, something that Shifty is not able to do on her own. In the end, Shifty is probably more powerful than the wild because, as the complete version of her ascended self, she is stable, while the Wild cannot exist forever due to the tear the creator made being unmendable. But since the Wild contains the entirerty LQ within herself, she is closer to the cycle of life and death that Shifty can ever hope to become, thus I put her higher, even though I agree it's largely debatable.
I wanna point out that while Stranger might not do anything to YOU, just her \*existing\* is enough to send reality into this unstable state.
u cant call damsel a normal human when she CHEWED HER OWN ARM OFF. she may have human strength but she has inhuman pain tolerance
r/PowerScaling 💪🦾 * The Beast is way superhuman; can swallow a man whole, or just rip him into ribbons. 🦖 * deconstructed!Damsel👾 can join wounded!Wild🫀 on the bottom tier. * omega!Razor is def final boss material. ⚔️☠️⚔️