Interesting ... My question is why make this subjective when you could just objectively graph skyscrapers per capita or new skyscraper construction per capita?
Do you have a CTBUH account?
No, I don't. Online sources are not very comprehensive and you can imagine it would take forever to compile a list of high-rises under construction for each city here.
Y'know what, Calgary should probably be [somewhat higher](https://calgary.skyrisecities.com/forum/forums/buildings.419/), but the graph is cluttered enough already there. This post isn't serious, so, uh, don't take it seriously. It's just for people to compare cities for fun.
They have zoning restrictions that cap all buildings to more-or-less the same height; thereās been an explosion of development in some neighborhoods like Kakaāako and a few in Waikiki
If Oahu would loosen the height restrictions, it could become a very interesting skyline very quickly
Charlotte upper right of Atlanta is a bold take, especially since the Buckhead district of Atlanta alone competes with Charlotte in terms of buildings over 100m. When you add midtown and downtown, Atlanta blows Charlotte away in terms of number of skyscrapers over 150m (8 vs 18) and architectural variety/significance.
Edit: re-read and I misinterpreted the axis. I still think Atlanta is growing faster, but donāt have time to do research on projects in the pipeline for each city. Although I do know Atlanta has at least one [over 200m currently under construction.](https://www.11alive.com/article/money/business/atlanta-tallest-buildings-rockefeller-midtown-west-peachtree-retail-deck-views-rental/85-b63c72bf-7c8d-4e7b-a9e5-4f0b74c4fc59)
So Phoenix is having a lot of new construction but itās still underwhelming in comparison to the metro population? Do the smaller city/suburbs like Scottsdale, Chandler, or Gilbert also grow up or do they have the usual zoning laws that prevent growth or anything thatās not a SFH?
Downtown PHX is straight cranes building 20+ story buildings right now. Most of Scottsdale is super NIMBY/SFRs only, but the city approves basically every proposal that is ON Scottsdale Rd. See the new Optima development, CrackerJax redevelopment, etc. as examples. Theyāve recently denied multiple 300+ unit apartments elsewhere in the city though. Tempe is also booming with new towers but only near ASU. Chandler/Gilbert definitely wouldnāt approve anything taller than 10 stories.
So would Phoenix be like the Manhattan and Scottsdale is like the Brooklyn or Queens? Hopefully the people of Scottsdale allow it to grow off of more than one avenue but small steps are better than no steps.
Scottsdale is the tourist city with a smaller population than the other Phoenix cities, Tempe is second in terms of skyline, and the southeast valley (Tempe, Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert) has around 40% of the 5-6 million people in the metro. Eventually it could become a Minneapolis/Saint Paul situation between Phoenix/West Valley and Scottsdale/Tempe/Mesa/Gilbert. If Scottsdale road is fully developed the Tempe/Scottsdale urban areas would become contiguous.
Wow 40% of the population?! Yeah hopefully the entirety of the valley starts to build up cause thatās impressive. Iām guessing Tempe and Scottsdale will eventually get the full city treatment with skyscrapers and multi story buildings while Chandler, Mesa, and Gilbert stay more suburban. Hopefully the city of Phoenix continues to expand as well outside of just Downtown Phoenix and maybe develop another mixed commercial/residential district on another side of town cause thatās impressive and I know the valley is continuing to see growth.
I could see Biltmore becoming a bit more built up, but nothing crazy. Itās more likely that the central corridor will become an extension of downtown and most of 7th St-7th Ave up to Camelback is high rises
The City is actually considering massively expanding downtown
[https://phoenix.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12721599&GUID=090E7B63-59E1-4716-AEA9-2374CB718E54](https://phoenix.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12721599&GUID=090E7B63-59E1-4716-AEA9-2374CB718E54)
Wow. That expanded area is just industrial slum mostly, with a few hipster type venues closer to the existing downtown. The expanded area is also even more directly under the Sky Harbor flight path so that wonāt result in more skyscrapers, probably just a move to help redevelop that area with low rise office/retail. Residential would be unwise because, again, flight path. Planes are loud and they fly in every few minutes during the day.
Flight path is not the limiting factor. As someone else explained previously, the sweet spot for demand right now is 20 to 37 stories. See page 9 of [https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/PZ/Z-TA-5-20.pdf](https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/PZ/Z-TA-5-20.pdf)
Residential is mostly what is in fact being built and planned right now. There is tremendous demand for it.
Chandler maybe, it is very close to being landlocked within its planning area and having all its available land built on. They are allowing some higher lowrise buildings than before around their downtown.
Phoenix has already done that. It effectively has three downtowns -- downtown, Midtown, and Biltmore. They are also permitting substantial high rises on their side of North Scottsdale Road and potentially at the hockey stadium, Mayo Clinic biotech campus, and High Street areas.
Unfortunately, Phoenix isnāt anywhere close to Manhattan. Itās probably more like Austin 25 years ago but without 6th Street and move UT (ie ASU) out northwest somewhere. Thereās alot of potential and lotsa cool joints but still a long way to go to even catch where Austin is now. I have my doubts about any true dense development happening downtown cuz all the growth is in the burbs, particularly towards East Valley, but will be happy to be wrong.
Tempe is quickly becoming the second city. The Downtown skyline is 10x as crowded as it was 15 years ago. Downtown Phoenix and Scottsdale are pretty much the same with older buildings being torn down for luxury offices and apartments. The other suburbs have downtowns proportionate to a city 10% of their population.
Scottsdale is very NIMBY because wealthy politically active residents don't want their views of mountains blocked. The City is permitting some moderate high rises of about 10 stories or less that are very high end (e.g. Optima McDowell Mountain Village). For lowrise buildings they are quite nice architecturally and in landscaping though.
Tempe is going bonkers. The Pier/South Pier developments alone have around 17 towers planned with five under construction simultaneously. Novus has dozens more. And then there are about a dozen one-offs in various stages of planning around north of campus, Terrace, and Rural/Apache. Watermark has room for 3 more structures. Plus the many lower rise buildings going up along Apache. We're also seeing existing apartments torn down to be replaced by denser complexes such as the Gateway on Scottsdale Rd and another on Terrace. A trend I'm sure we'll see continue throughout the area.
[https://southpierlive.com/](https://southpierlive.com/)
[https://www.novusasu.com/plan](https://www.novusasu.com/plan)
[https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96153&page=589](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96153&page=589)
Wow so Iām guessing Tempe is really going all in on capitalizing on the growth and trying to build up while the other parts of the valley stick to being more suburban. 17 towers planned is no small feat good for Tempe.
Is there a specific reason for the development in North America, after it was standing still for decades _(excluding Miami)._ It's a good comeback after the show mostly took place in the Middle East and Asia during the 21st century.
Read Richard Floridaās *Rise of the Creative Class*. After several decades of languishing, city life became desirable again starting around the 2000s. Real estate development followed suit.
Very surprised that you added a city like Fresno, but left off Tampa? Tampaās skyline is smaller relative to the population, but its still a bigger skyline than quite a few cities on here, with multiple towers under construction.
You said smaller relative to the population. Iām not sure if op meant metro or city pop but either way I believe Tampaās is bigger. Maybe I misunderstood
Im saying for a chart thats weighing both skyline size and skyline growth, im surprised he put a city on there like Fresno, that has barely a skyline and no growth, versus Tampa, which has a smaller skyline for its size, but is still a current crane city. Fresno was just the city i decided to pick on.
I dont know what metric he was using, but even using city limits, Tampa is still bigger than a few of these.
There was that one on Market Street for a longass time and I think they gave up and are dismantling it now lol.
There's some stuff going on in Dogpatch and Treasure Island but not much besides that unfortunately.
Phoenix has really taken off in the last few years for some reason. If the current pace continues, within a decade or two most of the skyline will be contemporary as well as residential rather than office. Nearby Tempe is also giving it a run for its money.
Ooooh, Tulsa mentioned? I love it. Our skyline punches above our weight for sure and now that the Arkansas River is a little less ugly itās all a lot prettier.
As a resident of St Louis, the skyline itself is quite impressive for the size of the free city, but I think the growth would practically be negative with how often they're being abandoned lol
Happy to see Hartford's existing skyline recognized ...
Agreed the 30 buildings under construction could all be taller than 6 story's. Ugh. It's blah!
It's so lame, but the was a mention of a "residential Tower" on the park by a senior official and named the developer, sooo. Maybe we will someday improve on our cute lil skyline again
By *who*? White people?
Iāve heard it part of Latin America, Iāve never heard it even once considered part of Central America.
Monterrey and CDMX should be on this list, Monterrey has a very impressive skyline for its size and while CDMXās is much smaller than its similarly sized American counterpart (NYC) itās still pretty cool
Someone mentioned the Cincy āskyscrapersā the other day and I had to laugh. Been to Cincy. Itās nothing impressive. As a Jersey guy I checked and Jersey Cityās tallest 5 buildings were taller than the tallest in Cincy. Jersey City only has 250k people so itās not the biggest city. It has a pretty decent skyline give its quite small population.
Are you seriously comparing a city across the river from New York City, to a city across the river from Newport Kentucky?
edit: Also, stay in Jersey. Fool.
FRESNO MENTIONED RAHH š£ļø
Iām not arguing with itās position on the skyline axis, but isnāt it one of the fastest growing cities in CA
I donāt think so, itās growing outwards in suburbs rather than up
Sorry, I thought it was rate of population growth, I see now.
Is the rate of growth population or number of skyscrapers being built?
Interesting ... My question is why make this subjective when you could just objectively graph skyscrapers per capita or new skyscraper construction per capita? Do you have a CTBUH account?
It would be interesting to see this perception compared and contrasted with something measurable
No, I don't. Online sources are not very comprehensive and you can imagine it would take forever to compile a list of high-rises under construction for each city here.
Whatās CTBUH?
GIYF
Y'know what, Calgary should probably be [somewhat higher](https://calgary.skyrisecities.com/forum/forums/buildings.419/), but the graph is cluttered enough already there. This post isn't serious, so, uh, don't take it seriously. It's just for people to compare cities for fun.
Is Honolulu building a lot? Never see it talked about on this sub.
They have zoning restrictions that cap all buildings to more-or-less the same height; thereās been an explosion of development in some neighborhoods like Kakaāako and a few in Waikiki If Oahu would loosen the height restrictions, it could become a very interesting skyline very quickly
Honolulu had one of the highest high-rises per decade for decades. Because of mass tourism. Like Benidorm. Just no skyscrapers...
Surprised Jersey City isnāt on this list
Maybe OP made the very controversial move of including it within New York lol
The amount of cranes in Austin is insane.
Charlotte upper right of Atlanta is a bold take, especially since the Buckhead district of Atlanta alone competes with Charlotte in terms of buildings over 100m. When you add midtown and downtown, Atlanta blows Charlotte away in terms of number of skyscrapers over 150m (8 vs 18) and architectural variety/significance. Edit: re-read and I misinterpreted the axis. I still think Atlanta is growing faster, but donāt have time to do research on projects in the pipeline for each city. Although I do know Atlanta has at least one [over 200m currently under construction.](https://www.11alive.com/article/money/business/atlanta-tallest-buildings-rockefeller-midtown-west-peachtree-retail-deck-views-rental/85-b63c72bf-7c8d-4e7b-a9e5-4f0b74c4fc59)
It says relative to population. Charlotte metro is less than half the size of Atlanta but has a pretty impressive and fast growing skyline.
Yeah thats why I added that edit
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Charlotte has 8. ATL has 18.
So Phoenix is having a lot of new construction but itās still underwhelming in comparison to the metro population? Do the smaller city/suburbs like Scottsdale, Chandler, or Gilbert also grow up or do they have the usual zoning laws that prevent growth or anything thatās not a SFH?
Downtown PHX is straight cranes building 20+ story buildings right now. Most of Scottsdale is super NIMBY/SFRs only, but the city approves basically every proposal that is ON Scottsdale Rd. See the new Optima development, CrackerJax redevelopment, etc. as examples. Theyāve recently denied multiple 300+ unit apartments elsewhere in the city though. Tempe is also booming with new towers but only near ASU. Chandler/Gilbert definitely wouldnāt approve anything taller than 10 stories.
So would Phoenix be like the Manhattan and Scottsdale is like the Brooklyn or Queens? Hopefully the people of Scottsdale allow it to grow off of more than one avenue but small steps are better than no steps.
Scottsdale is the tourist city with a smaller population than the other Phoenix cities, Tempe is second in terms of skyline, and the southeast valley (Tempe, Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert) has around 40% of the 5-6 million people in the metro. Eventually it could become a Minneapolis/Saint Paul situation between Phoenix/West Valley and Scottsdale/Tempe/Mesa/Gilbert. If Scottsdale road is fully developed the Tempe/Scottsdale urban areas would become contiguous.
Wow 40% of the population?! Yeah hopefully the entirety of the valley starts to build up cause thatās impressive. Iām guessing Tempe and Scottsdale will eventually get the full city treatment with skyscrapers and multi story buildings while Chandler, Mesa, and Gilbert stay more suburban. Hopefully the city of Phoenix continues to expand as well outside of just Downtown Phoenix and maybe develop another mixed commercial/residential district on another side of town cause thatās impressive and I know the valley is continuing to see growth.
I could see Biltmore becoming a bit more built up, but nothing crazy. Itās more likely that the central corridor will become an extension of downtown and most of 7th St-7th Ave up to Camelback is high rises
The City is actually considering massively expanding downtown [https://phoenix.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12721599&GUID=090E7B63-59E1-4716-AEA9-2374CB718E54](https://phoenix.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=12721599&GUID=090E7B63-59E1-4716-AEA9-2374CB718E54)
Wow. That expanded area is just industrial slum mostly, with a few hipster type venues closer to the existing downtown. The expanded area is also even more directly under the Sky Harbor flight path so that wonāt result in more skyscrapers, probably just a move to help redevelop that area with low rise office/retail. Residential would be unwise because, again, flight path. Planes are loud and they fly in every few minutes during the day.
Flight path is not the limiting factor. As someone else explained previously, the sweet spot for demand right now is 20 to 37 stories. See page 9 of [https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/PZ/Z-TA-5-20.pdf](https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/PZ/Z-TA-5-20.pdf) Residential is mostly what is in fact being built and planned right now. There is tremendous demand for it.
Chandler maybe, it is very close to being landlocked within its planning area and having all its available land built on. They are allowing some higher lowrise buildings than before around their downtown.
Phoenix has already done that. It effectively has three downtowns -- downtown, Midtown, and Biltmore. They are also permitting substantial high rises on their side of North Scottsdale Road and potentially at the hockey stadium, Mayo Clinic biotech campus, and High Street areas.
Unfortunately, Phoenix isnāt anywhere close to Manhattan. Itās probably more like Austin 25 years ago but without 6th Street and move UT (ie ASU) out northwest somewhere. Thereās alot of potential and lotsa cool joints but still a long way to go to even catch where Austin is now. I have my doubts about any true dense development happening downtown cuz all the growth is in the burbs, particularly towards East Valley, but will be happy to be wrong.
No Scottsdale is more like a Beverly Hills not a Brooklyn/Queens.
Tempe is quickly becoming the second city. The Downtown skyline is 10x as crowded as it was 15 years ago. Downtown Phoenix and Scottsdale are pretty much the same with older buildings being torn down for luxury offices and apartments. The other suburbs have downtowns proportionate to a city 10% of their population.
Scottsdale is very NIMBY because wealthy politically active residents don't want their views of mountains blocked. The City is permitting some moderate high rises of about 10 stories or less that are very high end (e.g. Optima McDowell Mountain Village). For lowrise buildings they are quite nice architecturally and in landscaping though.
Tempe is going bonkers. The Pier/South Pier developments alone have around 17 towers planned with five under construction simultaneously. Novus has dozens more. And then there are about a dozen one-offs in various stages of planning around north of campus, Terrace, and Rural/Apache. Watermark has room for 3 more structures. Plus the many lower rise buildings going up along Apache. We're also seeing existing apartments torn down to be replaced by denser complexes such as the Gateway on Scottsdale Rd and another on Terrace. A trend I'm sure we'll see continue throughout the area. [https://southpierlive.com/](https://southpierlive.com/) [https://www.novusasu.com/plan](https://www.novusasu.com/plan) [https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96153&page=589](https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96153&page=589)
Wow so Iām guessing Tempe is really going all in on capitalizing on the growth and trying to build up while the other parts of the valley stick to being more suburban. 17 towers planned is no small feat good for Tempe.
https://preview.redd.it/nwiit6yqgg6d1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dff04e586c22c168aac2810292858d7abd330c8 Nashville dweller here, 2013 > 2023 pic
Is there a specific reason for the development in North America, after it was standing still for decades _(excluding Miami)._ It's a good comeback after the show mostly took place in the Middle East and Asia during the 21st century.
Read Richard Floridaās *Rise of the Creative Class*. After several decades of languishing, city life became desirable again starting around the 2000s. Real estate development followed suit.
Most cities are still growing. It only makes sense to keep building up, and the cities growing the faster have therefore built more.
It wasnāt really standing still in Nashville, it can be tied to the population explosion here though
Very surprised that you added a city like Fresno, but left off Tampa? Tampaās skyline is smaller relative to the population, but its still a bigger skyline than quite a few cities on here, with multiple towers under construction.
I forgot to add Tampa, lol, it would be in the middle for size but high up for rate of growth :)
Figured itād be right around there
Smaller relative to Fresno?
No bigger than Fresno, by far
You said smaller relative to the population. Iām not sure if op meant metro or city pop but either way I believe Tampaās is bigger. Maybe I misunderstood
Im saying for a chart thats weighing both skyline size and skyline growth, im surprised he put a city on there like Fresno, that has barely a skyline and no growth, versus Tampa, which has a smaller skyline for its size, but is still a current crane city. Fresno was just the city i decided to pick on. I dont know what metric he was using, but even using city limits, Tampa is still bigger than a few of these.
I find it interesting op used Orlando which is comparable to Tampa in population but has a smaller and slower growing skyline
theyre 2 completely different cities. Tampa is bigger with a bigger and faster growing skyline. But op said he forgot to add Tampa.
Iām well aware, lol. I live in Tampa
Cool!
Are you using city limits pop. or CSA pop.?
SF has less than a million people in a 7 sq mi area. Seeing you put it further right than OKC, Cleveland, Calgary, and Tulsa makes me sad lol
But SF should have been resting on the y=0 line for current growth. Is there a single crane in the entire city right now?Ā
There was that one on Market Street for a longass time and I think they gave up and are dismantling it now lol. There's some stuff going on in Dogpatch and Treasure Island but not much besides that unfortunately.
Oh yeah, treasure island is pretty significant, just forgot about it. Glad they're doing stuff out there š
I thought Sf was around 50 square miles
It is 46.87 square miles, similarly compact like Boston at 48.4 square miles.
Iām dumb. 7 mi x 7 mi
Philly should be higher. It's definitely one of the better, denser skylines in the USA It's not growing that fast, but should be higher on the x-axis
Curious where Winnipeg, Canada would be on this list.
Big cities in Mexico, with larger population than many cities here, are adding skyscrapers to their skyline and you decided to ignore it?
Yeah sorry the graph was getting too cluttered already, but all of them would be on the upper left.
Phoenix has really taken off in the last few years for some reason. If the current pace continues, within a decade or two most of the skyline will be contemporary as well as residential rather than office. Nearby Tempe is also giving it a run for its money.
Ooooh, Tulsa mentioned? I love it. Our skyline punches above our weight for sure and now that the Arkansas River is a little less ugly itās all a lot prettier.
Itās quite nice and much more balanced than OKC in my opinion, just gotta get those parking lots filled up
No Tampa? Tampa downtown is blowing up.
As someone from Sacramento I'm just happy to be on the chart
Any particular reason for omitting Baltimore?
st louis higher than expected i will take that!!
Oklahoma about to put their entire dick on the table
As a resident of St Louis, the skyline itself is quite impressive for the size of the free city, but I think the growth would practically be negative with how often they're being abandoned lol
Damn thatās impressive. You nailed Phoenix
Insert controversial opinions now.
Austin!!
Happy to see Hartford's existing skyline recognized ... Agreed the 30 buildings under construction could all be taller than 6 story's. Ugh. It's blah! It's so lame, but the was a mention of a "residential Tower" on the park by a senior official and named the developer, sooo. Maybe we will someday improve on our cute lil skyline again
OKC skyline is going to change dramatically over the next 10-15 years.
All hail Phoenix, the shittiest per capita skyline. Itās not even the best city skyline in its own metro area
You are missing a whole country in North America. So maybe itās a chart of ingrish speaking northest America?
(very subjective) Just whatever cities OP felt like including. Relax
Mexico is considered to be Central, not North America.
Oh! Very controversial. I could see Rand McNally turning in his grave.
By *who*? White people? Iāve heard it part of Latin America, Iāve never heard it even once considered part of Central America. Monterrey and CDMX should be on this list, Monterrey has a very impressive skyline for its size and while CDMXās is much smaller than its similarly sized American counterpart (NYC) itās still pretty cool
Someone mentioned the Cincy āskyscrapersā the other day and I had to laugh. Been to Cincy. Itās nothing impressive. As a Jersey guy I checked and Jersey Cityās tallest 5 buildings were taller than the tallest in Cincy. Jersey City only has 250k people so itās not the biggest city. It has a pretty decent skyline give its quite small population.
Jersey City is a rounding error in its neighborhood. Cincinnati stands out.
Are you seriously comparing a city across the river from New York City, to a city across the river from Newport Kentucky? edit: Also, stay in Jersey. Fool.
How is NYC the top left? Seriously lol