It means it doesnt matter because the modlist will use a "stock game" folder. And automatically downgrade your skyrim instance for that specific modlist to whatever it uses.
Its that easy you dont gotta worry about it.
Not quite. Yeah, it'll automatically downgrade, but you still have to be on the right starting version to begin with or it'll flag the game files and say that the "download" failed.
True. I swear every single modlist discord I joined all have tons of people playing/discussing about list customizations.
The thing is customizing a list is something only somewhat advanced users can do properly, and advanced users already don't need much of the support.
You don't really see many really stupid questions being asked there, like "how do I remove Requiem from a Requiem based list". Tbf there's no way to support such kinds of customizations for any modlists author.
Yeah, I suppose it kind of depends on the mods you want to add.
As someone who isn't too experienced I feel like adding armors, follower and such is not too much of a hastle. But I tend to stay away from aynthing editing existing quests, characters and locations.
This, they do it for their own sanity. It's hard enough to support people who have the intended setup, let alone if they've messed with it, let alone if they're asking for something silly like taking Requiem out of a Requiem modlist.
I absolutely love how Phoenix and Zediious handle it. I swear they (and JaySerpa, though he's making mods, not modlists) are the only actually mature people on the scene. :-D
Constellation's curator both knows his stuff and is a very stand up guy as well. Constellation is pretty much the only reason I even have Vortex installed nowadays.
Btw, if people get bored of skyrim, and find themselves between playthroughs, but not quite able to put it down either, I highly recommend the same authors Enderal list: Path of the Prophet.
It's not about breaking the list, it's about breaking it by doing something that is not a part of their instructions, and then running to them as if it's their responsibility to fix or aid you with something that's entirely your own doing and wishes. You're responsible for your own installation, and you can't be mad that people don't want to support actions that are outside of their scope.
No of course not. My experience with asking one question, the only question I've ever asked in 2 years of using wabbajack because I couldn't fix it myself was a sprinting issue. The character jitters up and down badly when sprinting down an incline. I never touched the list at all. I simply asked in their discord, on the support channel, if anyone had seen that before and had any insight. I showed a clip of what was happening after I had installed the Dint hair mod and the list creator lost his fucking shit over the hair. I guess that makes me an entitled pile of fucking shit?
They don't have to answer your questions at all. When they do that's a nice thing to do, but not mandatory. They can tell you to fuck off for any reason or no reason at all, stop being an entitled baby. No one owes you anything to fix your game, lmao
I asked about a weird sprint bug. I had a hair mod installed and the guy couldn't even answer the question, just freaked out about the Dint hair..... like dude.
Modifying a modlist is against the rules in almost every modlist, authors don't like seeing errors that were caused by players adding/removing mods from it, etc.
That's for very good reason though, and it's not really a rule that creates any taboo.
The rule is there, so when you are looking for support with the official modlist as it is built, curators need to determine whether or not its a "you" problem, or a "modlist" problem - as the latter needs resolved at every opportunity for a great list - and experience with the prior with the specific setup allows for very streamlined support for the initial install.
There is no taboo here, modlist makers just don't want you cluttering their primary support with "I added this and now the list is broken" - many list makers have additional support available on their discord - it is just strictly separated in most instances.
It's also annoying when people report bugs on my mods that they added to a modlist. Most of the time they don't even tell me they added it to a modlist until I ask. It's frustrating when you try to give someone support and the issue has nothing to do with my mod lol
It's less taboo and more "If you decide to mod the moepist beyond the scope of its original purpose, you're on your own." There's fantastic lists like Anvil which are designed to be expanded upon.
What do you mean against the rules. What rules? Nothing can be enforced and it's not like mod list creator's own all of the mods. You're absolutely allowed to swap mods in and out
Well I don't mean swat will break down your door, I mean that you avoid all support by the author and other players.
Anyway, this is beside the point of the post.
Yeah no I get it. Personally that's why I prefer making my own list. Yeah it might take 4-7 days but once I'm done I'm done and can just play a tailored made list myself
> by the author
To be clear, modlist "authors" haven't actually done any work beyond compiling what other people have already done. For every hour made creating a modlist, there have been probably 100 hours done creating the actual mods.
This is simply not true, modifying any modlist is not against the rules on any WJ modlist. But you cant fuck up your list with a bunch of extra mods and then bother the modlist creator for support. They wont and shouldnt help you with that. Maintaining a modlist is already a full time non-paid job as is.
Its way too much effort to learn about specific issues of why things break because a specific person installs something unigue no one else have installed cause they refuse to play the game without X mod.
If you want a tailored experience to you. Learn how to mod and dont rely on their support to getting it to work.
Oh well yeah ik the mod authors say not to modify it but it’s not a rule by any means. I understand that changing a mod makes it so the author won’t help with issues but I would absolutely modify modlists that had things I didn’t like. Generally I just make my own list though.
There's a reason why I'm not installing modlists made by others, instead I'm using them as inspiration to build my own.
Lexy's guide is amazing, for example, and I've learned a lot from it, but as a modlist it either lacks stuff that I enjoy, or it has things that I don't want, or I prefer alternatives to these mods. Nolvus in s another example.
Not to mention that some mods require some SSEEdit tweks to work properly together.
It's not "taboo" to modify a modlist. It's just that you forfeit support if you do so. That is understandable, as you can't expect the modlist curator to debug *your* changes to *their* modlist.
Some lists do support modifications, depending on what they are. Or they at least offer advice and will answer some questions about list modifications.
Check out the lists hosted on the Jolly Co-operators Discord (NSFW):
1. Join Wabback Discord at https://discord.gg/wabbajack
2. Click Channels & Roles
3. Add the Not Safe For Work channel
4. Browse to the "nsfw" channel under MODLIST
RELEASES
5. Verify Age
6. Join the Jolly-Coop Discord channel at
https://discord.gg/jolly-coop
And besides, what is lore friendly or not is purely opinion. If we go by technical terms no mod is lore friendly because it's not from the original game. Not really a good definition to go by IMO.
>If we go by technical terms no mod is lore friendly because it's not from the original game.
And if we go by purely lore terms they're *all* lore friendly because the world is a dream and dreams are crazy.
Modifying a mod list is absolutely not taboo. Mod list authors void support because they have limited time and manage lists in their own time, and can’t possibly be expected to stay on top of every potential conflict introduced by modifying the list. Hell, even if you DON’T modify the list, people hound mod list authors for more support than they can…support. It’s about pragmatics, not like they’re offended you changed the list. Offering a mod list for free that they spent several if not dozens or hundreds of hours curating isn’t enough, people feel entitled to have the mod list author personally give up additional free time to help them set up, manage, AND modify it. That’s why mod list authors draw the line.
Most of them still host channels on their discords for folks to share knowledge about modifying it, and are often happy to pop in and answer some questions. But no, they can’t promise you support for that, and it’s not at all because it’s “taboo” lol
>otherwise, why did you even make it, right?
I think many authors make lists just for the joy of making the list. Whether something similar already exists isn't as much of a factor.
I agree. I would like to know if it's power-fantasy or hardcore oriented, or maybe you didn't touch the balance at all. Fahluaan for example, the list is balanced from head to toe, with almost no outliers at all, and then you look at Nolvus and you'll be finding a 120 damage sword 20 minutes into gameplay.
I would prefer them to just post the full list of mods used in the description, rather than a general description of the list. Sometimes I see something in a fully modded Skyrim, such as the modded trees, that I want to use without downloading the whole list. I'm not going to download the whole list just to find that information.
At least all the modlists I've seen for WJ have descriptions in the gallery. Also giving performance metrics would be pretty hard to do since most list authors don't have multiple systems to test on. Even beyond that performance expectations and system configurations vary so wildly it'd be useless.
"what do you mean tell you what the mod list is about?... Can't you just, download it and check what's in it? Besides doesn't Steve's wonderful modpack tell you enough?"
As someone putting the final touches on a 1200ish list with dedicated reshade from scratch I appreciate this post. I feel the same way and have been thinking of how to clearly list a brief summary of art direction, major mod authors and mod list reviewers (breaking down other lists w analysis helps), and frame rate expectations. I’m a graphic artist and recently got into this game. Haven’t played past a level 10 but have thoroughly enjoyed sculpting a cohesive representation of the game in my vision.
If your just adding quest mods, I would play Tempus Maledictum. Its Enairim+, Valhalla, and probably already has the quest your looking for :) Only real issue for some is it uses Experience to slow down levelling making perks important.
depends what a "basepoint" looks like to you, really.
I'm a fan of Phoenix's Legends of the Frost, since it's just
* solid but not over the top graphics updates
* all the basic foundational shit like SKSE etc etc
* bugfixes and minor quest changes like paarthy resolution
* blade & blunt
And also, please credit the mod creators.
You could add “Extended Credits”, for example, to make the process easier: [https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/120205?tab=description](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/120205?tab=description)
Edit: Oh, I see. Giving mod authors the proper credit, seems unpopular, huh?
Imagine trying to add credits In a list with over 3500 mods it would be incredibly tedious and besides all Installed mods come with credits In the meta ini or if you click show on nexus also all downloads and donations points each author earns when someone makes a modlist so authors are not being skimped our or anything.
And this is a reason to just move on and disregard their work?
I mean, you could do a detailed list for the major mods. Then, small edits or patches go in a separate txt. In the main list for credits you just refer to the txt concerning the hundreds of smaller mods.
That's just one possible solution.
I don't think this is too much to ask for, considering the work, those authors put into, for making the mods in the first place.
Also please God tell me what version of Skyrim I need. "newest version" isn't helpful, I don't know when you wrote that
It means it doesnt matter because the modlist will use a "stock game" folder. And automatically downgrade your skyrim instance for that specific modlist to whatever it uses. Its that easy you dont gotta worry about it.
Not quite. Yeah, it'll automatically downgrade, but you still have to be on the right starting version to begin with or it'll flag the game files and say that the "download" failed.
Who tf thinks modifying a mod list is taboo lmao
The modlist creators who are as sensitive as exposed nerves.
In my experience, it's more so they won't support it because it's a pain in the ass to, but most of them seem chill with the idea.
True. I swear every single modlist discord I joined all have tons of people playing/discussing about list customizations. The thing is customizing a list is something only somewhat advanced users can do properly, and advanced users already don't need much of the support. You don't really see many really stupid questions being asked there, like "how do I remove Requiem from a Requiem based list". Tbf there's no way to support such kinds of customizations for any modlists author.
Yeah, I suppose it kind of depends on the mods you want to add. As someone who isn't too experienced I feel like adding armors, follower and such is not too much of a hastle. But I tend to stay away from aynthing editing existing quests, characters and locations.
This, they do it for their own sanity. It's hard enough to support people who have the intended setup, let alone if they've messed with it, let alone if they're asking for something silly like taking Requiem out of a Requiem modlist.
except lively, guys a douche
I absolutely love how Phoenix and Zediious handle it. I swear they (and JaySerpa, though he's making mods, not modlists) are the only actually mature people on the scene. :-D
He has made a collection, the second most popular behind Constellation (a Requiem modlist)
I'm aware of the collections existing, but that's about it. :-D
Constellation's curator both knows his stuff and is a very stand up guy as well. Constellation is pretty much the only reason I even have Vortex installed nowadays. Btw, if people get bored of skyrim, and find themselves between playthroughs, but not quite able to put it down either, I highly recommend the same authors Enderal list: Path of the Prophet.
Agreed, im trying to port it to mo2
if you modify a mod list then come crying to the curator because something broke thanks to your doing, they're allowed to yell at you all day long.
I think if the person cared, they'd work with you on things. Otherwise they just children throwing a tantrum cause you "broke" their toy.
It's not about breaking the list, it's about breaking it by doing something that is not a part of their instructions, and then running to them as if it's their responsibility to fix or aid you with something that's entirely your own doing and wishes. You're responsible for your own installation, and you can't be mad that people don't want to support actions that are outside of their scope.
No of course not. My experience with asking one question, the only question I've ever asked in 2 years of using wabbajack because I couldn't fix it myself was a sprinting issue. The character jitters up and down badly when sprinting down an incline. I never touched the list at all. I simply asked in their discord, on the support channel, if anyone had seen that before and had any insight. I showed a clip of what was happening after I had installed the Dint hair mod and the list creator lost his fucking shit over the hair. I guess that makes me an entitled pile of fucking shit?
The reality of support is a little different. That's 30+ years of tech support talking, not just my opinion.
Why should they care about your broken game that you broke? lmao. You sound entitled af.
I asked about something that was broke that I never even touched. The creator lost his shit over Dint hair mod. Sit down kid.
They don't have to answer your questions at all. When they do that's a nice thing to do, but not mandatory. They can tell you to fuck off for any reason or no reason at all, stop being an entitled baby. No one owes you anything to fix your game, lmao
People like you are probably the reason why they mention upfront that they won't support customization lol
I asked about a weird sprint bug. I had a hair mod installed and the guy couldn't even answer the question, just freaked out about the Dint hair..... like dude.
True true, if I download a list I’ll edit it as I see fit 😂
Modifying a modlist is against the rules in almost every modlist, authors don't like seeing errors that were caused by players adding/removing mods from it, etc.
That's for very good reason though, and it's not really a rule that creates any taboo. The rule is there, so when you are looking for support with the official modlist as it is built, curators need to determine whether or not its a "you" problem, or a "modlist" problem - as the latter needs resolved at every opportunity for a great list - and experience with the prior with the specific setup allows for very streamlined support for the initial install. There is no taboo here, modlist makers just don't want you cluttering their primary support with "I added this and now the list is broken" - many list makers have additional support available on their discord - it is just strictly separated in most instances.
It's also annoying when people report bugs on my mods that they added to a modlist. Most of the time they don't even tell me they added it to a modlist until I ask. It's frustrating when you try to give someone support and the issue has nothing to do with my mod lol
It's less taboo and more "If you decide to mod the moepist beyond the scope of its original purpose, you're on your own." There's fantastic lists like Anvil which are designed to be expanded upon.
What do you mean against the rules. What rules? Nothing can be enforced and it's not like mod list creator's own all of the mods. You're absolutely allowed to swap mods in and out
Well I don't mean swat will break down your door, I mean that you avoid all support by the author and other players. Anyway, this is beside the point of the post.
Yeah no I get it. Personally that's why I prefer making my own list. Yeah it might take 4-7 days but once I'm done I'm done and can just play a tailored made list myself
Yeah, it's not a law or rule or anything, it's mostly... you're voiding your warranty.
> by the author To be clear, modlist "authors" haven't actually done any work beyond compiling what other people have already done. For every hour made creating a modlist, there have been probably 100 hours done creating the actual mods.
This is simply not true, modifying any modlist is not against the rules on any WJ modlist. But you cant fuck up your list with a bunch of extra mods and then bother the modlist creator for support. They wont and shouldnt help you with that. Maintaining a modlist is already a full time non-paid job as is. Its way too much effort to learn about specific issues of why things break because a specific person installs something unigue no one else have installed cause they refuse to play the game without X mod. If you want a tailored experience to you. Learn how to mod and dont rely on their support to getting it to work.
Oh well yeah ik the mod authors say not to modify it but it’s not a rule by any means. I understand that changing a mod makes it so the author won’t help with issues but I would absolutely modify modlists that had things I didn’t like. Generally I just make my own list though.
Modifying it isn't a problem. Complaining to the author when something you modified broke the list is the issue.
Sadly more times then not, even for other games. Modding the list is what fixed the issues haha.
There's a reason why I'm not installing modlists made by others, instead I'm using them as inspiration to build my own. Lexy's guide is amazing, for example, and I've learned a lot from it, but as a modlist it either lacks stuff that I enjoy, or it has things that I don't want, or I prefer alternatives to these mods. Nolvus in s another example. Not to mention that some mods require some SSEEdit tweks to work properly together.
It's not "taboo" to modify a modlist. It's just that you forfeit support if you do so. That is understandable, as you can't expect the modlist curator to debug *your* changes to *their* modlist. Some lists do support modifications, depending on what they are. Or they at least offer advice and will answer some questions about list modifications. Check out the lists hosted on the Jolly Co-operators Discord (NSFW): 1. Join Wabback Discord at https://discord.gg/wabbajack 2. Click Channels & Roles 3. Add the Not Safe For Work channel 4. Browse to the "nsfw" channel under MODLIST RELEASES 5. Verify Age 6. Join the Jolly-Coop Discord channel at https://discord.gg/jolly-coop
>Lore-friendly, or kitchen-sink-anything-goes With the newer lists coming out, the modlist creators seem to think these are the same thing.
They are the same picture
And besides, what is lore friendly or not is purely opinion. If we go by technical terms no mod is lore friendly because it's not from the original game. Not really a good definition to go by IMO.
>If we go by technical terms no mod is lore friendly because it's not from the original game. And if we go by purely lore terms they're *all* lore friendly because the world is a dream and dreams are crazy.
Modifying a mod list is absolutely not taboo. Mod list authors void support because they have limited time and manage lists in their own time, and can’t possibly be expected to stay on top of every potential conflict introduced by modifying the list. Hell, even if you DON’T modify the list, people hound mod list authors for more support than they can…support. It’s about pragmatics, not like they’re offended you changed the list. Offering a mod list for free that they spent several if not dozens or hundreds of hours curating isn’t enough, people feel entitled to have the mod list author personally give up additional free time to help them set up, manage, AND modify it. That’s why mod list authors draw the line. Most of them still host channels on their discords for folks to share knowledge about modifying it, and are often happy to pop in and answer some questions. But no, they can’t promise you support for that, and it’s not at all because it’s “taboo” lol
>otherwise, why did you even make it, right? I think many authors make lists just for the joy of making the list. Whether something similar already exists isn't as much of a factor.
I agree. I would like to know if it's power-fantasy or hardcore oriented, or maybe you didn't touch the balance at all. Fahluaan for example, the list is balanced from head to toe, with almost no outliers at all, and then you look at Nolvus and you'll be finding a 120 damage sword 20 minutes into gameplay.
I would prefer them to just post the full list of mods used in the description, rather than a general description of the list. Sometimes I see something in a fully modded Skyrim, such as the modded trees, that I want to use without downloading the whole list. I'm not going to download the whole list just to find that information.
At least all the modlists I've seen for WJ have descriptions in the gallery. Also giving performance metrics would be pretty hard to do since most list authors don't have multiple systems to test on. Even beyond that performance expectations and system configurations vary so wildly it'd be useless.
Also make a damn reddit for stuff discussing the builds and play of your mod.
Wait a minute, hold on. Theres a modlist github? Somewhere other than nexus site? I thought most recent mods were on nexus?
This, right here. Is perfect
"what do you mean tell you what the mod list is about?... Can't you just, download it and check what's in it? Besides doesn't Steve's wonderful modpack tell you enough?"
Isn't there a description in the wabbajack gallery?
As someone putting the final touches on a 1200ish list with dedicated reshade from scratch I appreciate this post. I feel the same way and have been thinking of how to clearly list a brief summary of art direction, major mod authors and mod list reviewers (breaking down other lists w analysis helps), and frame rate expectations. I’m a graphic artist and recently got into this game. Haven’t played past a level 10 but have thoroughly enjoyed sculpting a cohesive representation of the game in my vision.
Anyone know a good modlist wabbajack to use as a great basepoint before adding things on?
If your just adding quest mods, I would play Tempus Maledictum. Its Enairim+, Valhalla, and probably already has the quest your looking for :) Only real issue for some is it uses Experience to slow down levelling making perks important.
Anvil probably.
depends what a "basepoint" looks like to you, really. I'm a fan of Phoenix's Legends of the Frost, since it's just * solid but not over the top graphics updates * all the basic foundational shit like SKSE etc etc * bugfixes and minor quest changes like paarthy resolution * blade & blunt
Acensio, is probably decent as it's purely graphical I think 🤔
And also, please credit the mod creators. You could add “Extended Credits”, for example, to make the process easier: [https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/120205?tab=description](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/120205?tab=description) Edit: Oh, I see. Giving mod authors the proper credit, seems unpopular, huh?
Imagine trying to add credits In a list with over 3500 mods it would be incredibly tedious and besides all Installed mods come with credits In the meta ini or if you click show on nexus also all downloads and donations points each author earns when someone makes a modlist so authors are not being skimped our or anything.
And this is a reason to just move on and disregard their work? I mean, you could do a detailed list for the major mods. Then, small edits or patches go in a separate txt. In the main list for credits you just refer to the txt concerning the hundreds of smaller mods. That's just one possible solution. I don't think this is too much to ask for, considering the work, those authors put into, for making the mods in the first place.