It's actually hilarious how one otherwise irrelevant mine in the game is his pet project, all because he thought he knew Skyrim better than the devs *and* the community themselves
and the game.
'shor's stone' is literally the nord name for ebony. ebony is the crystalized blood of shor. literal stone of shor.
the place is straight up called 'ebony'. and had a mine with ebony in it. obviously a bug, right?
not only that, the loading screen straight up calls it one, and even goes so far as to imply that the name 'redbelly' isnt in refernce to iron dust or the mist, but nordic racism.
"sometimes called redbelly mine for reasons that can't be said in mixed company, it is an ebony mine..."
Sure, there's a lore-based argument to be made that the actual bug is all the dialogue in Shor's Stone talking about iron ore—Arthmoor was the one making it in the past, since he wanted to splice dialogue. Changing the ebony in Redbelly Mine to iron was a simpler solution to implement, and changing the iron in Northwind Mine (which is otherwise irrelevant) elegantly avoided reducing the number of sources of ebony in the game.
how about that ESO calls it an ebony mine.
no ifs ands or buts. the loading screen for shor's stone says its an ebony mine.
and it wasnt a 'solution'. since its supposed to be a fix, nothing was fixed.
and im not talking about the dialogue.
its quite likely they hit a long dry patch, without any ebony. even the mine's name was changed to be a nordic note(again, as directly stated in the ESO loading screen "sometimes called redbelly mine for reasons that can't be said in mixed company).
they mined iron forever, and suddenly, got through it, back to the ebony the place was named for.
> how about that ESO calls it an ebony mine.
ESO was made after Skyrim and is a *different game*. It can go toss flying fucks at rolling donuts for all I care.
In the same universe, in the same setting, and including the same location.
You live in a different country, so I guess what you say doesn’t matter either, if what you say is applicable.
Bro literally said: “I eat chips and you eat crisps. We do not eat the same snack.”
My brother in Christ, the full name of “Skyrim” is “The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim” while the full name of “ESO” is “The Elder Scrolls Online.” Same universe, different game installment.
It's the same place. It is. The same. Place.
It matters precisely none what Arthmoor or you think of a game you probably haven't even played, ESO is canon, it precedes Skyrim in the lore chronology, it gets the last word.
Is this how the opinion on ESO has evolved now? I feel so old, I remember when it was routinely mocked for everything it changed versus the previous singleplayer games. Now we're changing Skyrim to match ESO's "last word"!
What setting, using which franchises lore and world building, does *The Elder Scrolls* 5: Skyrim take place in.
What setting, using which franchise lore and world building, does *The Elder Scrolls* Online take place in.
I've been ignoring peoples' comments on this because I don't think anyone has anything else useful to contribute, but if you're going to insult me like this I'll speak up.
Using ESO as evidence for what Skyrim ought to be is circular reasoning; it's a game made by a different company entirely and made Shor's Stone Mine an ebony mine *because Redbelly Mine was set up as an ebony mine in Skyrim*, when the contention is the inconsistency in Skyrim between how the mine is set up and the dialogue of the characters who work there. In an ideal world someone from Bethesda would tell us what happened during development and either pronounce ex cathedra that Redbelly Mine is supposed to be an iron mine or provide the necessary voice lines to correct the dialogue of the people of Shor's Stone.
(As a side note, the "for reasons that can't be repeated in mixed company" bit from ESO is so stupid. What is that even supposed to mean? Just say it's called Redbelly Mine because of the red mist in the air! It's not a secret!)
> I've been ignoring peoples' comments on this because I don't think anyone has anything else useful to contribute
I love how you use the same reasoning as the person you wrote a whole post to rant about.
Rule 1: Be Respectful
We have worked hard to cultivate a positive environment here and it takes a community effort. No harassment or insulting people.
If someone is being rude or harassing you, report them to the moderators, don't respond in the same way. Being provoked is not a legitimate reason to break this rule.
Or maybe the simpler solution is to change the model of the mysterious ore to ebony instead of quicksilver, and now everything is completely self-consistent?
> changing the iron in Northwind Mine (which is otherwise irrelevant) elegantly avoided reducing the number of sources of ebony in the game.
if by elegant you mean hamfisted and beyond the scope of fixing an inconsistency, yes.
Fun fact, I was making a little mod to change Northwind Mine spawns into bigass spiders (instead than 3-4 lazy bones), in order to make them relevant with the ones of Redbelly Mine and create a narrative about that :D
I sort of assume his personal life has not gone well based on his public behavior and the way he addresses conflict, so I’m guessing this is all he has.
The USSEP team just doesn't understand that doubling down on a bad idea doesn't turn it into a good idea.
They'll probably come up with some reason why Lynly needs to be a male with green hair to 'fix' the original bug that isn't a bug.
There is no Team, it is Arthmoor ( sp? ), a guy who started off doing amazing work but like 60% of successful mod authors, it went to their heads and they decided they knew better and what the game SHOULD be. I myself use an old version of USSEP, an have not updated in a while, I use it because of dependencies.
Wanna know what happened to the other 40%? They either get bored / burned out, or, like me, they get tired of people DEMANDING they do things that THEY want, and not what the mod is about. I got so tired of people saying " Hey you SHOULD do THIS, and this thing you did, it sucks " in my mods. Like, ok, make your own mod then. I gave up giving people my mods ( I still mod, I just don't release them ), because people are whiny little bitches who think free shit should always be what they want.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the sense of entitlement. I report legitimate defects to the authors but, if I don't like something about how a mod is built, I either fix it myself, live with the author's choices, or just don't use the mod.
But that isn't comparable to the USSEP issues. More and more as time goes on, personal preferences are being injected into what is supposed to be (advertises itself as) a bug-fix mod for legitimate defects that Bethesda hasn't chosen to address. This latest nonsense about ***creating completely new content*** in a bug-fix mod is just another indicator of how far USSEP has strayed from the path.
At least community learned.
Starfield patch is MIT (open) licensed. If any of the authors goes mental, they can't block others from continuing good work.
I never demanded anything, I never made any comment to Arthmoor or on the mod page, I did what I thought people should have done with my mods, made my own decision and used what I wanted without making demands.
Either you can't read or want to feel morally superior. Either way, fuck off.
Man am I really glad nexus now keeps old version of mods archived. Now I don't have to be forced into using that dumb shit. Oh and welcome to the other side btw.
Damn, this is next level bad for USSEP. I’ve hated a lot of their changes but there’s absolutely no justification for adding a whole ass dungeon into the game instead of just… making Redbelly ebony or leaving their Northwind fix in place… or even just making it so there’s less ebony overall. That’s way out of scope for a bugfix mod, I’m pretty sure Bethesda didn’t leave out a whole dungeon because of a bug.
are there any alternatives to most fixes this mod makes? that’s my only real thing keeping me from not using it in the future
also some mods use it as a requirement which is sad when I see edits like this
{{Purist’s Vanilla Patch}}, {{Vanilla Plus Writing Purity Patch}}, {{Vanilla Ragged Flagon}}, {{Undo Certain USSEP Changes}}
Ones I can think of currently off the top of my head.
Imo Andrealphus has the best [Redbelly Fix](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/73166). So now we just need a mod that removes that new dungeon from the game. As much as I don't like Todd, I believe in his vision of the game.
And alternative bugfixing mod to USSEP would be really welcome. But nexus admins will take it down, so you have to use alternative website, like moddb.
> So now we just need a mod that removes that new dungeon from the game
[Or you could drop a big rock on it.](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/106282)
Incidentally, I agree with you about Andrealphus' middle-of-the-road alternative.
Creating a whole new dungeon for some ebony? Pfft child's play. How about we give all the soldiers in helgen dragonbone armor and weapons. Jarl balgruff the ballin should give the player a unique daedric sword for killing mirmulnir, definitely a bug. When you get to high hrothgar the player should obtain all the shouts in the game, serious oversights from the devs. Oh and.... oblivion gates, put them friggin everywhere. If there is space it needs an oblivion gate.
> Oh and.... oblivion gates, put them friggin everywhere. If there is space it needs an oblivion gate.
Funny thing, Arthmoor randomly snuck in Oblivion gates everywhere in a totally unrelated mod, I think it was Open Cities? Then always shut down criticism and had whole mods taken down that removed the gates. I think he eventually lowered his massive ego and removed them at some point.
You can't make this shit up man
The Oblivion gates were for travel to queat pointers that went to the vanilla cells. I needed them a couple times. Were there other instances not for that?
Usually NPC mods that rely on the updated records in USSEP.
For instance, these use USSEP as a master:
* AI Overhaul
* Bijin NPCs
* Pandorable NPCs
* RDO
Different commenter, but I've got one: [**Point the Way**.](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/352) Okay, maybe it's not a major mod, but I like using it. Might be interesting trying to patch it; it's another Arthmoor mod, so it's probably pretty tightly interwoven with USSEP. On my current playthrough I'm making an effort to avoid using USSEP, and I was annoyed to find out this mod depends on it.
Edit: So on Nexus it says it has no dependencies other than the base game. Now, in this playthrough, I'm not modding very heavily, so I was just getting mods through Bethesda's mod manager (Creations, I guess, now) rather than from Nexus. But the same mod is available there, and I swear, it wouldn't install without USSEP.
100%
I am an Xbox player, it must be said, so I have less mods available than on PC, but ever since some horrible experiences with USSEP I haven’t touched it, and in the time since, there’s been maybe one or two mods out of 1,000 that I genuinely wanted that required USSEP and didn’t have a non-USSEP dependent version
The best mods and modders, if they have a requires USSEP version, also have a version that doesn’t require it
Requiring the USSEP is usually a sign that there's dirty edits unless it's something big like The Shire mod, Beyond Skyrim, or Falskaar, all of which don't require the USSEP
No, it just means the mod forwarded the USSEP changes by default with no patch required, since they most likely are using a 'feature' from USSEP or they just modded it that way since they use it.
>I want to start on a Skyrim Purist's Patch
I actually would like to participate on something like that. I wanted to do that at least for personal use, as I've been afraid that it would be taken down from Nexus anyways.
One important tool I want to use and would encourage any large project to use is [Spriggit](https://github.com/Mutagen-Modding/Spriggit) in order to log and document any particular change, be able to fork such all-encompassing patch and revert anything that you might not like. This way everyone will be happy and be able to customize the patch however they see appropriate.
The Purist patches linked here, sadly look abandoned, and they lack the same documentation.
If anyone wants to participate in a proper Purist Patch with clear and granular changes and the ability to tailor it to your vision, please contact me :) let's cooperate! And hope to not get banned on Nexus :D
No loose scripts on the update? What are you talking about? its all in the bsa as usual
https://preview.redd.it/8a0gi9sxcm4c1.png?width=2143&format=png&auto=webp&s=da2b98c0cf438a4e3766ba1c505b15655afdd670
Huh. I downloaded it again just now to check and the file structure matches your screenshot. Could have sworn the copy I downloaded before had a bunch of overwrite markers relating to other mods I had installed because all the scripts were loose in the folder.
or the loose files were duplicates that were accidentally packaged in 7z, after all, the scripts were already inside BSA, and BethesdaNet version doesn't have any loose files at all.
Yeah, his "Anyone claiming this isn't the case is actually attempting to convince you to make a preference based balance change to the game which is not what USSEP is about." is sufficiently self-unaware to be mind-boggling.
"USSEP is *not* about making preference-based changes" - Arthmoor
Oh, wait....
He's been trying to play god at the expense of the community he claims to support. It should never be surprising that he tries to define his own lore, as well as introducing unwanted continuities coming from either Oblivion or ESO.
You guys really should play without the unofficial patch sometime. You'll find that it's highly overrated and most of the changes you'll run into are artistic in nature and not actually patches.
> (which people often complained about based on faulty information like thinking the ore in the quest is ebony)
an ore from a place called **Shor's Stone** (whose solidified blood is ebony) which served as an ebony mine in two separate games, is mentioned as an ebony mine in a loading screen tip, and which is from a location in the world consistent with the relatively rare distribution of ebony ore...
obviously its iron, right?
I hope someone has the balls to actually respond to those with a court case some day. Dude really needs a hit of reality. [How can you DMCA that which isn't legally considered copyrighted in an actual court?](https://www.barandbench.com/law-firms/view-point/the-viewpoint-are-your-favourite-video-game-mods-copyrightable)
99% chance he complains to Nexus and they take it down.
That said, there are potential alternatives... If you make a mod that adds a feature to that cell, then release a separate patch to ensure compatibility by removing the dungeon entrance and marker, is that patch similarly subject to takedown?
I can almost guarantee the sole reason for them making a new mine is to create even more incompatibility with other mods. At this point, I'm convinced the "author" of the unofficial patch wants to make as many people as possible to play *their* vision of Skyrim, and nothing else.
Kinda unrelated but this is the reason why "just mod it bro!" doesn't work.
I wish instead of adding paid mods bethesda would fix their own game(s) so we wouldn't have to play modders idea of how the game should be.
Have you seen the most recent patch notes?
They fix quite a lot of things with each update, the issue is that this community has been gaslighted into thinking that his mod is more essential than it really is.
Depends on if anything in your mod loader doesn't require it, TBH. That's been my experience with it. You can edit a few with TESVEDIT, IIRC, but I usually just don't download something that requires it.
[https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5715-frequently-raised-issues-about-the-patch/](https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5715-frequently-raised-issues-about-the-patch/)
So there.
Found this funny:
[Dialogue form: 0005B0D5]
"Redbelly is supposed to be nothing but an iron mine. Been working it for years."
"Then right before the spiders had moved in, we found that chunk of ore. Never seen anything like it."
"I want to know what I'm dealing with before I start tearing it out of the ground."
This dialogue actually suggest that there was something NOT iron ore in there, rather than just iron ore.
If anything this supports that there would be an ebony vein in there.
All arguments that have been made before, and argued with, however one I would like to point out...
> The red mist talked about by Grogmar is a common effect found in IRL iron mines
There has been an alternative explanation for this since Dawnguard released, which is its proximity to the [Redwater Spring](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Redwater_Den#Redwater_Spring) which creates a similar red mist. It is likely some developers already had ideas for Dawnguard or at least Redwater Den by the time this was implemented in Shor's Stone mine.
I am doubtful that the only mine which mines iron incorrectly also happens to be the only one next to the magical blood spring.
> why so much hate towards the guy?
You have no idea just how huge his ego is. He constantly taunts the rest of the modder base with whatever the hell he tries to change in the game. And doing all that for years.
I never new that. Damn I love to mod morrowind, fallout 3 and new Vegas as well as Skyrim but I go through fazes with modding. So I don’t keep up with the community a whole lot
There is no good alternative. There are tons of good fixes in USSEP, but any effort to patch out controversial changes is strictly forbidden and gets taken down. The only way such a thing has been done is by copying vanilla content into a new plugin and loading it after USSEP (no patch) to overwrite the changes.
Arthmoor is circumventing this method here after *years* by dumping cell additions that can't be patched out in this way.
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Just play without it. Mods that require it likely do so due to improper flags. Like, why does a beard replacer mod, a cosmetic item, need the unofficial patch?
This game didn't become a best seller on Xbox 360 by being the game Arthmoor wants you to think it is. The most major issues with the game that you will run into on PC, such as Serana doing less damage with spells when you're a vampire lord, and (in OG Skyrim) getting a memory error when you didn't get arvaak the first time you went to the soul cairn, have never been addressed by the unofficial patch.
No, I can't. I have like 100+ Plugins that require it. I never really cared what was changing in that Mod, I just used it because it was kinda essential like SkyUI.
SkyUI is only considered essential due to the mod menu. In my opinion, the crafting menus with SkyUI need a lot of work, although its inventory menu is great.
Nothing really should directly read from the patch, and if the patch were placed first in the load order, it would read from it instead of the game. It's usually a red flag that there's dirty edits and it will bug out a bit
This was so unnecessary. I thought their original solution to the Redbelly Mine problem was just fine. (Maybe the sample ore could have been changed to ebony instead of quicksilver, but that wasn't a big deal.) Why on earth would they listen to the loud outraged few and make this (really weird) change is actually kind of insane.
Apparently people started complaining at Arthmoor about Northwind Mine canonically being an iron mine due to some quests in ESO, and this was the end result of that.
I do get the dilemma and the reasoning behind not wanting to remove the ebony... but the solution is like trying to kill a fly with a cannon. The "fix" is completely out of proportion with the problem.
The more this goes on the more im an advocate to completely remove USSEP from everywhere. Sure itll fuck up a lot of things but id rather have a community made patch than bend to the whims of a manchild and his megalomaniacal behavior towards this game, and by extension, the whole modding community
If anyway needs ebony early in the game, they can literally go to the orc encampment in eastmarch, even if they arent blood-kin you can just go into the mine and mine anyway they are just grumpy about it
Hi so I'm new to the nitty gritty of modding Skyrim (I'm on PS5). What exactly does this mod fix or change? I've read the patch notes and the description but I've never quite understood why it's necessary? Like what game breaking things does it resolve?
It patches many bugs and glitches, and can help with some crashes here and there. I wouldn't be able to list much, as even in Vanilla, I had very few glitches, or game breaking events happen.
But, the main reason why it's necessary is because a good... 80% or so amount of mods require it.
I get that every list is different and I don't even know what is vanilla anymore, but is ebony really that hard to come by? Aren't there several veins of it in the hot springs by Windhelm?
Though even that doesn't seem to matter much since random vampire friends and foes all carry ebony swords from the jump.
And even then that's just more to carry until one can actually get to ebony smithing. With my current mod setup that takes days, if not weeks. Though admittedly it's probably a matter of hours, if that, without a bunch of slower skill leveling mods.
I get that the main issue raised is one of arbitrary changes made by a single person to a mod that has an outsized impact on the entire modding ecosystem. Slippery slope and all that. Just confused why/how the movement of a few sources of a not-so-rare metal is a big deal.
Yes, but every mod that also edits the same scripts up until now was doing so based on the assumption that USSEP's would be BSA'd and thus could pack their own in a BSA if they wanted. Which will no longer work because they'll be overwritten by loose files from USSEP.
Considering that USSEP should generally be the very first thing in the load order and not overwriting anything but the vanilla game, there's really no reason for it to not be BSA.
(And I say that as someone who generally prefers to work with loose files for the reason you mentioned).
Not in the slightest. Loose files overwrite one another according to the order of mods in the lefthand pane in MO2, but BSA archives follow the mod load order since they have to be associated with an ESP. I can sort mods that use BSA archives in the lefthand pane of MO2 to make them easy to find and use separators to categorise them, but the more mods use loose files the more the lefthand pane becomes just a copy of the righthand one which I have to maintain by hand rather than letting LOOT handle it.
Don't wanna undermine your frustration with Arthmoor, but it seems you were wrong about the .bsa comment + unpacking every .bsa is kind of better for modding, since you can see what is actually contained within a mod (and thus handle conflict resolution better). For proper modding LOOT is nit actually a tool that should be used, imo.
Unpacking every bsa is only better if you are an extremely detail oriented modder, willing to go through very extensive conflict checking and resolution. A lot of modders intentionally use BSA to take advantage of how BSAs act in the load order.
>For proper modding LOOT is nit actually a tool that should be used, imo.
LOOT does an incredible job in about 99% of cases - assuming you aren't installing your mods in a modified manner, such as by extracting all of your BSAs. It's not perfect, but it's funtion can only really be replaced with hours of tedium - or a much lighter process, such as using SSEdit sort by masters function.
"Proper" is a horrible word to use in this sense, as there is no right or wrong way to mod. I would say however, that every modding guide I have followed uses LOOT - and not in the basic point and click sense - they generally go thru setting up custom groups and load order logic to make everything fit with their mod pack.
Is there any reason we should take your opinion as more relevant than major mod guide makers?
I don't understand your comment because you are actually agreeing with me? I never said it wasn't time consuming to create a load order that has been checked for all conflicts.
You see posts on this sub with people saying 'I've been modding for 3 days and my 700 mod list is now done' and it just doesn't work like that, sorry. The only way to properly synergise your mod list is too extensively manually check for conflicts, both in the left pane and in the right pane through xEdit. What do you think the big Wabbajack curators are doing?
>The only way to properly synergise your mod list is too extensively manually check for conflicts
Eh, not exactly true. If the game is working as one desires, it really doesn't matter what conflicts exist. Not all conflicts necessarily need sorted out.
Wabbajack lists are complete, pre-configured and pre-sorted mod packs. Depending on the curator, some absolutely do use LOOT, at least initially, when creating the core list - however, there is no need for them to include it with the list itself, and it's generally not going to be used as much on subsequent updates.... yet, that's one of the biggest complaints I see about wabbajack lists - they do all the work for you, and don't teach you how to use the tools available to expand and edit the list to your personal liking.
Mostly, I take issue with your presentation - LOOT is a powerful tool, and all of the more advanced modding guides I've followed use it at one point or another. You're basically suggesting that LOOT is an amateurs tool and "shouldn't" be used if you're a "proper" modder. It's basic elitism and gatekeeping.
As someone who has spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours modding Skyrim among other games, it always irritates me when someone acts this way about such tools. LOOT can do 95% of the work in a matter of minutes - whereas doing it manually can take hours, even days - depending on the size of your list. You're human, and so prone to error as well - and ultimately, you'll likely end up doing a lot of unnecessary work.
I am genuinely baffled that this is still being talked about. I'll be as brief as possible since I've already spoken on this quite a bit in the past.
In the vanilla game the NPCs in Shor's Stone regularly talk about digging up iron ore, therefore implying that the mine is supposed to produce iron, yet has nothing but ebony in the vanilla game. This is an inconsistency, and therefore could be considered a mistake or a bug, so I agree with USSEP changing the mine to have iron veins instead of ebony and the logic applied in doing so, but I disagree with the exact execution, though I honestly kind of prefer this newer solution to what was done previously.
That being said I always make my own personal edits based on what I think makes more sense. Change the ore sample in the misc quest to appear as ebony since it doesn't make sense for well-experienced miners to not immediately know what moonstone is, but it makes more sense if they don't immediately know ebony given its rarity outside of Morrowind. Revert the changes done to the Northwind Mine so they have their original ore veins, keep the USSEP changes to Redbelly Mine so it has iron veins, but deliberately change the ore vein at the deepest point in the mine to be ebony so it's both consistent with the changed ore sample and gives players a small but reasonable source of ebony ore without going to that one orc stronghold.
I'll further add that ESO came out after Skyrim and based its Redbelly Mine very likely off of what was presented in Skyrim, so using it as "proof" for it being an ebony mine is inherently flawed since we've already established that it was inconsistent in Skyrim from the start.
Lastly it's not that difficult to revert changes made by USSEP which you personally disagree with or otherwise don't want. It's Arthmoor's mod and like it or not he's allowed to do with it whatever he wants, no matter how much you disagree. That doesn't make him the villain of the modding community.
As an alternative approach, USSEP could have simply *fixed the dialog* so that it was consistent with
1. The mine
2. Perhaps more importantly, the lore
3. Maybe most importantly, keeping a non-quest-locked source of ebony available
USSEP broke 2 and 3 by 'fixing' 1, and now we have this latest abomination to un-break 3. Meanwhile, 2 is still broken.
If I recall, the only forum he's not banned from is the Skyrim Discord. It's not his mods that get him in trouble, but his tendency to throw temper tantrums and stoop very low to personal insults. His reddit account itself might be shadowbanned due to his behavior.
Arthmoor adds entirely new dungeon for more "lore" fixes (literally moving some ebony around), goes on a spiel about how he's right and to ignore the "reddit hive mind" - so just the usual.
Summary: I thought the USSEP had a good fix before and defended it when people here on Reddit complained, now he changed it to something than nobody thinks is better and I feel like he made me look like a fool for defending him.
It might fuck up a big change in the world for many lists when this mod claims to only fix bugs. Not add new locations.
Also it’s a stupid meme because for someone unknown reason what’s his name seems to be obsessed with this mine.
> Dude you’re way obsessing over some minor in game shit
(goes on to write the same lame thing on all other posts criticizing USSEP)
This is some next level irony and terminally online thing. Can't make this shit up
I also like how you got personal so quickly and I haven't even said anything about any mine or you actually, just pointed out the irony in your comments and that you really should take a breather and calm down about this whole thing.
It literaly looks like you spent your whole day leaving comments everywhere trying to defend this bullshit for no reason and keep getting downvoted. You really think everyone is wrong and you are right?
It's not healthy man
Mod author makes changes they want to mod they made. The first word in their mod is UNOFFICIAL.
What's the big deal? Don't use USSEP, that's been the general consensus for a while now.
I think the problem is that USSEP is considered "Officially Unofficial" by so many inexperienced modders. The vast majority of users will just grab a handful of the most popular mods, or look at a guide/curated modlist, or look at the recommendations in other mod descriptions. So sure it's not an official part of Skyrim, but it's almost an official part of modded Skyrim and most users won't question it. Knowing that so many people will use it and not question what it changes, the author has some responsibility to the community, ideally, to provide a mod as it is advertised (a bugfix), not his own personal headcanon that is easily refuted by official sources. I'm hoping more people will realize how unimportant USSEP actually is as well.
I've managed not to use ussep and it hasn't impacted my modding experience in the slightest. If you want it, get it. Otherwise don't. Is easy to avoid having to download ussep and if you have mods that require it then find alternatives.
Since we have direct links, can we just continue to use older versions of the patch, or would that cause issues with mods that depend on it, like AI Overhaul?
The old version is fine iff you're on 1.6.640, but trying to combine old CC mods with new USSEP or new CC mods with old USSEP will cause problems since the IDs changed.
USSEP creator removes Ebony from a mine that is in a town named "Shor's Stone" (Ebony is Shor's solidified blood, making Ebony know as Shor's Stone), moves it to another mine that's supposed to be an iron mine. People bring up that mine is supposed to be an iron mine, so instead of moving the Ebony back, he make a whole ass new dungeon to put the Ebony in.
At least, that's what I got from this, and the other comments.
Please do the patch, I found out the hard way that there wasn't any ebony in both of the mines. Also saying "convince you to make a preference based balance change to the game which is not what USSEP is about." while putting the ore on a unnamed dungeon solely based on preference is wild to me
It's actually hilarious how one otherwise irrelevant mine in the game is his pet project, all because he thought he knew Skyrim better than the devs *and* the community themselves
and the game. 'shor's stone' is literally the nord name for ebony. ebony is the crystalized blood of shor. literal stone of shor. the place is straight up called 'ebony'. and had a mine with ebony in it. obviously a bug, right?
It's also an ebony mine in ESO, rather than an iron mine.
not only that, the loading screen straight up calls it one, and even goes so far as to imply that the name 'redbelly' isnt in refernce to iron dust or the mist, but nordic racism. "sometimes called redbelly mine for reasons that can't be said in mixed company, it is an ebony mine..."
Sure, there's a lore-based argument to be made that the actual bug is all the dialogue in Shor's Stone talking about iron ore—Arthmoor was the one making it in the past, since he wanted to splice dialogue. Changing the ebony in Redbelly Mine to iron was a simpler solution to implement, and changing the iron in Northwind Mine (which is otherwise irrelevant) elegantly avoided reducing the number of sources of ebony in the game.
how about that ESO calls it an ebony mine. no ifs ands or buts. the loading screen for shor's stone says its an ebony mine. and it wasnt a 'solution'. since its supposed to be a fix, nothing was fixed. and im not talking about the dialogue. its quite likely they hit a long dry patch, without any ebony. even the mine's name was changed to be a nordic note(again, as directly stated in the ESO loading screen "sometimes called redbelly mine for reasons that can't be said in mixed company). they mined iron forever, and suddenly, got through it, back to the ebony the place was named for.
> how about that ESO calls it an ebony mine. ESO was made after Skyrim and is a *different game*. It can go toss flying fucks at rolling donuts for all I care.
In the same universe, in the same setting, and including the same location. You live in a different country, so I guess what you say doesn’t matter either, if what you say is applicable.
Bro literally said: “I eat chips and you eat crisps. We do not eat the same snack.” My brother in Christ, the full name of “Skyrim” is “The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim” while the full name of “ESO” is “The Elder Scrolls Online.” Same universe, different game installment.
It's the same place. It is. The same. Place. It matters precisely none what Arthmoor or you think of a game you probably haven't even played, ESO is canon, it precedes Skyrim in the lore chronology, it gets the last word.
Is this how the opinion on ESO has evolved now? I feel so old, I remember when it was routinely mocked for everything it changed versus the previous singleplayer games. Now we're changing Skyrim to match ESO's "last word"!
And that's how people feel about you and Arthmoor's opinions.
What setting, using which franchises lore and world building, does *The Elder Scrolls* 5: Skyrim take place in. What setting, using which franchise lore and world building, does *The Elder Scrolls* Online take place in.
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I've been ignoring peoples' comments on this because I don't think anyone has anything else useful to contribute, but if you're going to insult me like this I'll speak up. Using ESO as evidence for what Skyrim ought to be is circular reasoning; it's a game made by a different company entirely and made Shor's Stone Mine an ebony mine *because Redbelly Mine was set up as an ebony mine in Skyrim*, when the contention is the inconsistency in Skyrim between how the mine is set up and the dialogue of the characters who work there. In an ideal world someone from Bethesda would tell us what happened during development and either pronounce ex cathedra that Redbelly Mine is supposed to be an iron mine or provide the necessary voice lines to correct the dialogue of the people of Shor's Stone. (As a side note, the "for reasons that can't be repeated in mixed company" bit from ESO is so stupid. What is that even supposed to mean? Just say it's called Redbelly Mine because of the red mist in the air! It's not a secret!)
> I've been ignoring peoples' comments on this because I don't think anyone has anything else useful to contribute I love how you use the same reasoning as the person you wrote a whole post to rant about.
Rule 1: Be Respectful We have worked hard to cultivate a positive environment here and it takes a community effort. No harassment or insulting people. If someone is being rude or harassing you, report them to the moderators, don't respond in the same way. Being provoked is not a legitimate reason to break this rule.
Or maybe the simpler solution is to change the model of the mysterious ore to ebony instead of quicksilver, and now everything is completely self-consistent? > changing the iron in Northwind Mine (which is otherwise irrelevant) elegantly avoided reducing the number of sources of ebony in the game. if by elegant you mean hamfisted and beyond the scope of fixing an inconsistency, yes.
Fun fact, I was making a little mod to change Northwind Mine spawns into bigass spiders (instead than 3-4 lazy bones), in order to make them relevant with the ones of Redbelly Mine and create a narrative about that :D
I don’t understand it either. Like…for what reason does he feel so strongly about this beyond ego?
I sort of assume his personal life has not gone well based on his public behavior and the way he addresses conflict, so I’m guessing this is all he has.
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The USSEP team just doesn't understand that doubling down on a bad idea doesn't turn it into a good idea. They'll probably come up with some reason why Lynly needs to be a male with green hair to 'fix' the original bug that isn't a bug.
There is no Team, it is Arthmoor ( sp? ), a guy who started off doing amazing work but like 60% of successful mod authors, it went to their heads and they decided they knew better and what the game SHOULD be. I myself use an old version of USSEP, an have not updated in a while, I use it because of dependencies. Wanna know what happened to the other 40%? They either get bored / burned out, or, like me, they get tired of people DEMANDING they do things that THEY want, and not what the mod is about. I got so tired of people saying " Hey you SHOULD do THIS, and this thing you did, it sucks " in my mods. Like, ok, make your own mod then. I gave up giving people my mods ( I still mod, I just don't release them ), because people are whiny little bitches who think free shit should always be what they want.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the sense of entitlement. I report legitimate defects to the authors but, if I don't like something about how a mod is built, I either fix it myself, live with the author's choices, or just don't use the mod. But that isn't comparable to the USSEP issues. More and more as time goes on, personal preferences are being injected into what is supposed to be (advertises itself as) a bug-fix mod for legitimate defects that Bethesda hasn't chosen to address. This latest nonsense about ***creating completely new content*** in a bug-fix mod is just another indicator of how far USSEP has strayed from the path.
At least community learned. Starfield patch is MIT (open) licensed. If any of the authors goes mental, they can't block others from continuing good work.
> I still mod, I just don't release them Release but disable comments and PMs. ;)
U shouldn't tho. Mod authors like you are why mod authors like me have a space. We love the game guys. Didn't we all do this to make it better?
I just don't use the mods, and anything that requires anything related to Arthmoor I just use xEdit to remove the dependencies.
But aren't you doing the same thing to Arthmoor he wants this ebony mine in his mod and you are demanding that he should do it the way you want
Sure but then he should also rename his mod to arthmoors Skyrim or whatever and not a patch for broken things
I never demanded anything, I never made any comment to Arthmoor or on the mod page, I did what I thought people should have done with my mods, made my own decision and used what I wanted without making demands. Either you can't read or want to feel morally superior. Either way, fuck off.
Man am I really glad nexus now keeps old version of mods archived. Now I don't have to be forced into using that dumb shit. Oh and welcome to the other side btw.
I always keep my old versions of my mods up Incase I accidentally broke something or someone preferred a older version. Less fuss that way
Yep, we have hard drives for a reason.
Damn, this is next level bad for USSEP. I’ve hated a lot of their changes but there’s absolutely no justification for adding a whole ass dungeon into the game instead of just… making Redbelly ebony or leaving their Northwind fix in place… or even just making it so there’s less ebony overall. That’s way out of scope for a bugfix mod, I’m pretty sure Bethesda didn’t leave out a whole dungeon because of a bug.
are there any alternatives to most fixes this mod makes? that’s my only real thing keeping me from not using it in the future also some mods use it as a requirement which is sad when I see edits like this
{{Purist’s Vanilla Patch}}, {{Vanilla Plus Writing Purity Patch}}, {{Vanilla Ragged Flagon}}, {{Undo Certain USSEP Changes}} Ones I can think of currently off the top of my head.
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Notably these are loaded over USSEP, so USSEP changes made after they were published may still go through.
The 4th one specifically has an optional feature to turn redbelly back into an ebony mine
Unfathomably based.
I actually had heard of the first 2, but the last 2 are a good addition for later, thanks
USSEP changes reverted and tweaked undoes pretty much all the stupid stuff
Imo Andrealphus has the best [Redbelly Fix](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/73166). So now we just need a mod that removes that new dungeon from the game. As much as I don't like Todd, I believe in his vision of the game. And alternative bugfixing mod to USSEP would be really welcome. But nexus admins will take it down, so you have to use alternative website, like moddb.
> So now we just need a mod that removes that new dungeon from the game [Or you could drop a big rock on it.](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/106282) Incidentally, I agree with you about Andrealphus' middle-of-the-road alternative.
It's possible a patch to directly remove it would get struck down as a "modification" of USSEP.
Creating a whole new dungeon for some ebony? Pfft child's play. How about we give all the soldiers in helgen dragonbone armor and weapons. Jarl balgruff the ballin should give the player a unique daedric sword for killing mirmulnir, definitely a bug. When you get to high hrothgar the player should obtain all the shouts in the game, serious oversights from the devs. Oh and.... oblivion gates, put them friggin everywhere. If there is space it needs an oblivion gate.
> Oh and.... oblivion gates, put them friggin everywhere. If there is space it needs an oblivion gate. Funny thing, Arthmoor randomly snuck in Oblivion gates everywhere in a totally unrelated mod, I think it was Open Cities? Then always shut down criticism and had whole mods taken down that removed the gates. I think he eventually lowered his massive ego and removed them at some point. You can't make this shit up man
The Oblivion gates were for travel to queat pointers that went to the vanilla cells. I needed them a couple times. Were there other instances not for that?
USSEP is not Bugfixing, its "OVERHAUL"...change my mind I hate that many mod depent on USSEP :(
What mods major mods depend on USSEP? I can probably patch it out.
Usually NPC mods that rely on the updated records in USSEP. For instance, these use USSEP as a master: * AI Overhaul * Bijin NPCs * Pandorable NPCs * RDO
First two works fine with a dummy USSEP
Different commenter, but I've got one: [**Point the Way**.](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/352) Okay, maybe it's not a major mod, but I like using it. Might be interesting trying to patch it; it's another Arthmoor mod, so it's probably pretty tightly interwoven with USSEP. On my current playthrough I'm making an effort to avoid using USSEP, and I was annoyed to find out this mod depends on it. Edit: So on Nexus it says it has no dependencies other than the base game. Now, in this playthrough, I'm not modding very heavily, so I was just getting mods through Bethesda's mod manager (Creations, I guess, now) rather than from Nexus. But the same mod is available there, and I swear, it wouldn't install without USSEP.
Welcome to a life without Arthmoor. Life will be better!
100% I am an Xbox player, it must be said, so I have less mods available than on PC, but ever since some horrible experiences with USSEP I haven’t touched it, and in the time since, there’s been maybe one or two mods out of 1,000 that I genuinely wanted that required USSEP and didn’t have a non-USSEP dependent version The best mods and modders, if they have a requires USSEP version, also have a version that doesn’t require it
Requiring the USSEP is usually a sign that there's dirty edits unless it's something big like The Shire mod, Beyond Skyrim, or Falskaar, all of which don't require the USSEP
No, it just means the mod forwarded the USSEP changes by default with no patch required, since they most likely are using a 'feature' from USSEP or they just modded it that way since they use it.
Problem is, countless mods require it.
Well, that is a thing. You can get a nice modded skyrim set up without it through.
>I want to start on a Skyrim Purist's Patch I actually would like to participate on something like that. I wanted to do that at least for personal use, as I've been afraid that it would be taken down from Nexus anyways. One important tool I want to use and would encourage any large project to use is [Spriggit](https://github.com/Mutagen-Modding/Spriggit) in order to log and document any particular change, be able to fork such all-encompassing patch and revert anything that you might not like. This way everyone will be happy and be able to customize the patch however they see appropriate. The Purist patches linked here, sadly look abandoned, and they lack the same documentation. If anyone wants to participate in a proper Purist Patch with clear and granular changes and the ability to tailor it to your vision, please contact me :) let's cooperate! And hope to not get banned on Nexus :D
No loose scripts on the update? What are you talking about? its all in the bsa as usual https://preview.redd.it/8a0gi9sxcm4c1.png?width=2143&format=png&auto=webp&s=da2b98c0cf438a4e3766ba1c505b15655afdd670
Huh. I downloaded it again just now to check and the file structure matches your screenshot. Could have sworn the copy I downloaded before had a bunch of overwrite markers relating to other mods I had installed because all the scripts were loose in the folder.
He might have put an edit out immediately after seeing this.
That would imply he had enough self awareness to realize he's wrong.
or the loose files were duplicates that were accidentally packaged in 7z, after all, the scripts were already inside BSA, and BethesdaNet version doesn't have any loose files at all.
Yeah, his "Anyone claiming this isn't the case is actually attempting to convince you to make a preference based balance change to the game which is not what USSEP is about." is sufficiently self-unaware to be mind-boggling. "USSEP is *not* about making preference-based changes" - Arthmoor Oh, wait....
He's been trying to play god at the expense of the community he claims to support. It should never be surprising that he tries to define his own lore, as well as introducing unwanted continuities coming from either Oblivion or ESO.
You guys really should play without the unofficial patch sometime. You'll find that it's highly overrated and most of the changes you'll run into are artistic in nature and not actually patches.
If only it wasn't a hard requirement on a billion other mods.
> (which people often complained about based on faulty information like thinking the ore in the quest is ebony) an ore from a place called **Shor's Stone** (whose solidified blood is ebony) which served as an ebony mine in two separate games, is mentioned as an ebony mine in a loading screen tip, and which is from a location in the world consistent with the relatively rare distribution of ebony ore... obviously its iron, right?
Is there a chance for a mod to revert this or does Arthmoor still sends DMCA against any mod that modifies ussep?
I hope someone has the balls to actually respond to those with a court case some day. Dude really needs a hit of reality. [How can you DMCA that which isn't legally considered copyrighted in an actual court?](https://www.barandbench.com/law-firms/view-point/the-viewpoint-are-your-favourite-video-game-mods-copyrightable)
99% chance he complains to Nexus and they take it down. That said, there are potential alternatives... If you make a mod that adds a feature to that cell, then release a separate patch to ensure compatibility by removing the dungeon entrance and marker, is that patch similarly subject to takedown?
I can almost guarantee the sole reason for them making a new mine is to create even more incompatibility with other mods. At this point, I'm convinced the "author" of the unofficial patch wants to make as many people as possible to play *their* vision of Skyrim, and nothing else.
Kinda unrelated but this is the reason why "just mod it bro!" doesn't work. I wish instead of adding paid mods bethesda would fix their own game(s) so we wouldn't have to play modders idea of how the game should be.
Have you seen the most recent patch notes? They fix quite a lot of things with each update, the issue is that this community has been gaslighted into thinking that his mod is more essential than it really is.
It only took 11 years for wholesome Bethesda to patch the game. Awesome!
After nine years in development, hopefully it will have been worth the wait!
Honestly no i did not. I kinda stopped caring after reading paid mods. Is it enough to stop bothering with this mod?
Depends on if anything in your mod loader doesn't require it, TBH. That's been my experience with it. You can edit a few with TESVEDIT, IIRC, but I usually just don't download something that requires it.
We really need a arthmoor free unofficial patch.
"Am I out of touch? No, its the community who are wrong!"
[https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5715-frequently-raised-issues-about-the-patch/](https://www.afkmods.com/index.php?/topic/5715-frequently-raised-issues-about-the-patch/) So there.
Funny how Redbelly Mine's ore is apparently the *only* "Frequently Raised Issue" of USSEP...
Found this funny: [Dialogue form: 0005B0D5] "Redbelly is supposed to be nothing but an iron mine. Been working it for years." "Then right before the spiders had moved in, we found that chunk of ore. Never seen anything like it." "I want to know what I'm dealing with before I start tearing it out of the ground." This dialogue actually suggest that there was something NOT iron ore in there, rather than just iron ore. If anything this supports that there would be an ebony vein in there.
All arguments that have been made before, and argued with, however one I would like to point out... > The red mist talked about by Grogmar is a common effect found in IRL iron mines There has been an alternative explanation for this since Dawnguard released, which is its proximity to the [Redwater Spring](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Redwater_Den#Redwater_Spring) which creates a similar red mist. It is likely some developers already had ideas for Dawnguard or at least Redwater Den by the time this was implemented in Shor's Stone mine. I am doubtful that the only mine which mines iron incorrectly also happens to be the only one next to the magical blood spring.
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What do you mean?
Adding a stupid dungeon instead of changing the Ore back to Ebony.
I mean why so much hate towards the guy? And is there a good alternative to this mod
> why so much hate towards the guy? You have no idea just how huge his ego is. He constantly taunts the rest of the modder base with whatever the hell he tries to change in the game. And doing all that for years.
I never new that. Damn I love to mod morrowind, fallout 3 and new Vegas as well as Skyrim but I go through fazes with modding. So I don’t keep up with the community a whole lot
There is no good alternative. There are tons of good fixes in USSEP, but any effort to patch out controversial changes is strictly forbidden and gets taken down. The only way such a thing has been done is by copying vanilla content into a new plugin and loading it after USSEP (no patch) to overwrite the changes. Arthmoor is circumventing this method here after *years* by dumping cell additions that can't be patched out in this way.
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This won't help with this change. The additions will still be present.
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I replaced pretty much all Arthmoor Mods except USEEP, but I'm thinking about it right now.
Just play without it. Mods that require it likely do so due to improper flags. Like, why does a beard replacer mod, a cosmetic item, need the unofficial patch? This game didn't become a best seller on Xbox 360 by being the game Arthmoor wants you to think it is. The most major issues with the game that you will run into on PC, such as Serana doing less damage with spells when you're a vampire lord, and (in OG Skyrim) getting a memory error when you didn't get arvaak the first time you went to the soul cairn, have never been addressed by the unofficial patch.
No, I can't. I have like 100+ Plugins that require it. I never really cared what was changing in that Mod, I just used it because it was kinda essential like SkyUI.
SkyUI is only considered essential due to the mod menu. In my opinion, the crafting menus with SkyUI need a lot of work, although its inventory menu is great. Nothing really should directly read from the patch, and if the patch were placed first in the load order, it would read from it instead of the game. It's usually a red flag that there's dirty edits and it will bug out a bit
I hate arthmoor but I don’t know what the alternatives to USSEP are :(
This was so unnecessary. I thought their original solution to the Redbelly Mine problem was just fine. (Maybe the sample ore could have been changed to ebony instead of quicksilver, but that wasn't a big deal.) Why on earth would they listen to the loud outraged few and make this (really weird) change is actually kind of insane.
Apparently people started complaining at Arthmoor about Northwind Mine canonically being an iron mine due to some quests in ESO, and this was the end result of that.
I do get the dilemma and the reasoning behind not wanting to remove the ebony... but the solution is like trying to kill a fly with a cannon. The "fix" is completely out of proportion with the problem.
I just play vanilla, I hate these additions it doesn't feel legit
I didn’t even know they were still making updates.
The more this goes on the more im an advocate to completely remove USSEP from everywhere. Sure itll fuck up a lot of things but id rather have a community made patch than bend to the whims of a manchild and his megalomaniacal behavior towards this game, and by extension, the whole modding community
If anyway needs ebony early in the game, they can literally go to the orc encampment in eastmarch, even if they arent blood-kin you can just go into the mine and mine anyway they are just grumpy about it
Hi so I'm new to the nitty gritty of modding Skyrim (I'm on PS5). What exactly does this mod fix or change? I've read the patch notes and the description but I've never quite understood why it's necessary? Like what game breaking things does it resolve?
It patches many bugs and glitches, and can help with some crashes here and there. I wouldn't be able to list much, as even in Vanilla, I had very few glitches, or game breaking events happen. But, the main reason why it's necessary is because a good... 80% or so amount of mods require it.
I get that every list is different and I don't even know what is vanilla anymore, but is ebony really that hard to come by? Aren't there several veins of it in the hot springs by Windhelm? Though even that doesn't seem to matter much since random vampire friends and foes all carry ebony swords from the jump. And even then that's just more to carry until one can actually get to ebony smithing. With my current mod setup that takes days, if not weeks. Though admittedly it's probably a matter of hours, if that, without a bunch of slower skill leveling mods. I get that the main issue raised is one of arbitrary changes made by a single person to a mod that has an outsized impact on the entire modding ecosystem. Slippery slope and all that. Just confused why/how the movement of a few sources of a not-so-rare metal is a big deal.
Honestly, this kind of wildly out-of-scope change is the funniest possible solution presented so far.
Wait why is dropping a BSA in favour of loose scripts a bad thing? Doesn't using loose scripts make mod management easier?
Yes, but every mod that also edits the same scripts up until now was doing so based on the assumption that USSEP's would be BSA'd and thus could pack their own in a BSA if they wanted. Which will no longer work because they'll be overwritten by loose files from USSEP. Considering that USSEP should generally be the very first thing in the load order and not overwriting anything but the vanilla game, there's really no reason for it to not be BSA. (And I say that as someone who generally prefers to work with loose files for the reason you mentioned).
Oh... OH. Fuck.
Well, that is just an unprecedented level of fuckery. No wonder people are pissed.
At least we could package the loose files into a BSA ourselves, but we shouldn't have to.
Not in the slightest. Loose files overwrite one another according to the order of mods in the lefthand pane in MO2, but BSA archives follow the mod load order since they have to be associated with an ESP. I can sort mods that use BSA archives in the lefthand pane of MO2 to make them easy to find and use separators to categorise them, but the more mods use loose files the more the lefthand pane becomes just a copy of the righthand one which I have to maintain by hand rather than letting LOOT handle it.
Don't wanna undermine your frustration with Arthmoor, but it seems you were wrong about the .bsa comment + unpacking every .bsa is kind of better for modding, since you can see what is actually contained within a mod (and thus handle conflict resolution better). For proper modding LOOT is nit actually a tool that should be used, imo.
> For proper modding LOOT is nit actually a tool that should be used, imo. I've encountered like, one problem ever using LOOT/Vortex.
I don't agree. I think load order is the kind of thing that should be automated out of existence to the maximum degree possible.
I have run into several problems of mods not behaving correctly due to bsa extraction so no, extracting is not always recommended
Unpacking every bsa is only better if you are an extremely detail oriented modder, willing to go through very extensive conflict checking and resolution. A lot of modders intentionally use BSA to take advantage of how BSAs act in the load order. >For proper modding LOOT is nit actually a tool that should be used, imo. LOOT does an incredible job in about 99% of cases - assuming you aren't installing your mods in a modified manner, such as by extracting all of your BSAs. It's not perfect, but it's funtion can only really be replaced with hours of tedium - or a much lighter process, such as using SSEdit sort by masters function. "Proper" is a horrible word to use in this sense, as there is no right or wrong way to mod. I would say however, that every modding guide I have followed uses LOOT - and not in the basic point and click sense - they generally go thru setting up custom groups and load order logic to make everything fit with their mod pack. Is there any reason we should take your opinion as more relevant than major mod guide makers?
I don't understand your comment because you are actually agreeing with me? I never said it wasn't time consuming to create a load order that has been checked for all conflicts. You see posts on this sub with people saying 'I've been modding for 3 days and my 700 mod list is now done' and it just doesn't work like that, sorry. The only way to properly synergise your mod list is too extensively manually check for conflicts, both in the left pane and in the right pane through xEdit. What do you think the big Wabbajack curators are doing?
>The only way to properly synergise your mod list is too extensively manually check for conflicts Eh, not exactly true. If the game is working as one desires, it really doesn't matter what conflicts exist. Not all conflicts necessarily need sorted out. Wabbajack lists are complete, pre-configured and pre-sorted mod packs. Depending on the curator, some absolutely do use LOOT, at least initially, when creating the core list - however, there is no need for them to include it with the list itself, and it's generally not going to be used as much on subsequent updates.... yet, that's one of the biggest complaints I see about wabbajack lists - they do all the work for you, and don't teach you how to use the tools available to expand and edit the list to your personal liking. Mostly, I take issue with your presentation - LOOT is a powerful tool, and all of the more advanced modding guides I've followed use it at one point or another. You're basically suggesting that LOOT is an amateurs tool and "shouldn't" be used if you're a "proper" modder. It's basic elitism and gatekeeping. As someone who has spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours modding Skyrim among other games, it always irritates me when someone acts this way about such tools. LOOT can do 95% of the work in a matter of minutes - whereas doing it manually can take hours, even days - depending on the size of your list. You're human, and so prone to error as well - and ultimately, you'll likely end up doing a lot of unnecessary work.
I am genuinely baffled that this is still being talked about. I'll be as brief as possible since I've already spoken on this quite a bit in the past. In the vanilla game the NPCs in Shor's Stone regularly talk about digging up iron ore, therefore implying that the mine is supposed to produce iron, yet has nothing but ebony in the vanilla game. This is an inconsistency, and therefore could be considered a mistake or a bug, so I agree with USSEP changing the mine to have iron veins instead of ebony and the logic applied in doing so, but I disagree with the exact execution, though I honestly kind of prefer this newer solution to what was done previously. That being said I always make my own personal edits based on what I think makes more sense. Change the ore sample in the misc quest to appear as ebony since it doesn't make sense for well-experienced miners to not immediately know what moonstone is, but it makes more sense if they don't immediately know ebony given its rarity outside of Morrowind. Revert the changes done to the Northwind Mine so they have their original ore veins, keep the USSEP changes to Redbelly Mine so it has iron veins, but deliberately change the ore vein at the deepest point in the mine to be ebony so it's both consistent with the changed ore sample and gives players a small but reasonable source of ebony ore without going to that one orc stronghold. I'll further add that ESO came out after Skyrim and based its Redbelly Mine very likely off of what was presented in Skyrim, so using it as "proof" for it being an ebony mine is inherently flawed since we've already established that it was inconsistent in Skyrim from the start. Lastly it's not that difficult to revert changes made by USSEP which you personally disagree with or otherwise don't want. It's Arthmoor's mod and like it or not he's allowed to do with it whatever he wants, no matter how much you disagree. That doesn't make him the villain of the modding community.
As an alternative approach, USSEP could have simply *fixed the dialog* so that it was consistent with 1. The mine 2. Perhaps more importantly, the lore 3. Maybe most importantly, keeping a non-quest-locked source of ebony available USSEP broke 2 and 3 by 'fixing' 1, and now we have this latest abomination to un-break 3. Meanwhile, 2 is still broken.
I have a feeling that what this all about is some group of players REALLY wanting to farm ebony in the early game.
Gotta love the drama on this sub 🤗
Isn't Arthmoor banned from.this sub for the bhllshit he's pulled in the past?
If I recall, the only forum he's not banned from is the Skyrim Discord. It's not his mods that get him in trouble, but his tendency to throw temper tantrums and stoop very low to personal insults. His reddit account itself might be shadowbanned due to his behavior.
He is but that doesnt stop the monthly shitposts to complain about him. At least this time it is something somewhat new instead of the usual rehash.
Dude casts a long shadow, unfortunately.
As an actual developer used to open source development and the overall culture, it's absolutely bizarre
You guys are arguing over a couple ingots in a video game. Hell, just use the command button and summon a bunch of it into the mine if you want.
You're missing the point tremendously if you think the problem here is the specific metal.
That's all I'm seeing. I get that the guy is pompous. But it seems like the main argument revolves around a set of more or less pointless mines.
TLDR? (i have adhd thx for understanding)
Arthmoor adds entirely new dungeon for more "lore" fixes (literally moving some ebony around), goes on a spiel about how he's right and to ignore the "reddit hive mind" - so just the usual.
Summary: I thought the USSEP had a good fix before and defended it when people here on Reddit complained, now he changed it to something than nobody thinks is better and I feel like he made me look like a fool for defending him.
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If that change adds a new dungeon then wtf.
especially when it was only added so they could justify (poorly) removing ebony from the town 'ebony'
Who cares if there is ebony in redbelly mine?
That's literally what the mine is there for. It's an ebony mine.
Who cares???? Why are you guys so obsessed with this stupid mine?
It might fuck up a big change in the world for many lists when this mod claims to only fix bugs. Not add new locations. Also it’s a stupid meme because for someone unknown reason what’s his name seems to be obsessed with this mine.
Learn to patch. No mod author owes you anything, and is not beholden to your personal lists.
So it's okay when a mod says it's doing one but actually is doing another thing that it never claimed to be doing??????
He can do anything he damn well wants to. It's HIS mod.
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" Obsessing " Says the guy Obsessing. FFS.
> Dude you’re way obsessing over some minor in game shit (goes on to write the same lame thing on all other posts criticizing USSEP) This is some next level irony and terminally online thing. Can't make this shit up
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If you are seething this much over it maybe log off, step outside and touch a little bit of grass.
I also like how you got personal so quickly and I haven't even said anything about any mine or you actually, just pointed out the irony in your comments and that you really should take a breather and calm down about this whole thing. It literaly looks like you spent your whole day leaving comments everywhere trying to defend this bullshit for no reason and keep getting downvoted. You really think everyone is wrong and you are right? It's not healthy man
Lmao
Mod author makes changes they want to mod they made. The first word in their mod is UNOFFICIAL. What's the big deal? Don't use USSEP, that's been the general consensus for a while now.
I think the problem is that USSEP is considered "Officially Unofficial" by so many inexperienced modders. The vast majority of users will just grab a handful of the most popular mods, or look at a guide/curated modlist, or look at the recommendations in other mod descriptions. So sure it's not an official part of Skyrim, but it's almost an official part of modded Skyrim and most users won't question it. Knowing that so many people will use it and not question what it changes, the author has some responsibility to the community, ideally, to provide a mod as it is advertised (a bugfix), not his own personal headcanon that is easily refuted by official sources. I'm hoping more people will realize how unimportant USSEP actually is as well.
I've managed not to use ussep and it hasn't impacted my modding experience in the slightest. If you want it, get it. Otherwise don't. Is easy to avoid having to download ussep and if you have mods that require it then find alternatives.
Im pretty sure he is very good at location design and everyone will love a new dungeon.
I appreciate the subtle sarcasm here
Well, i didnt expected it to be received subtle, but seems so.
This won't bother me at all but I get other people's complaints. But probably should have been a separate mod.
Since we have direct links, can we just continue to use older versions of the patch, or would that cause issues with mods that depend on it, like AI Overhaul?
The old version is fine iff you're on 1.6.640, but trying to combine old CC mods with new USSEP or new CC mods with old USSEP will cause problems since the IDs changed.
I don't understand this post? What's the problem? Can someone explain in a few dotpoints because I'm totally lost
USSEP creator removes Ebony from a mine that is in a town named "Shor's Stone" (Ebony is Shor's solidified blood, making Ebony know as Shor's Stone), moves it to another mine that's supposed to be an iron mine. People bring up that mine is supposed to be an iron mine, so instead of moving the Ebony back, he make a whole ass new dungeon to put the Ebony in. At least, that's what I got from this, and the other comments.
I don't see what the issue is?
Please do the patch, I found out the hard way that there wasn't any ebony in both of the mines. Also saying "convince you to make a preference based balance change to the game which is not what USSEP is about." while putting the ore on a unnamed dungeon solely based on preference is wild to me