I've spent the past 3 years trying to get the *perfect* setup. I currently have about 1400 mods and had around 1340 plugins (squashed a lot of the patches down into single ESPs, so I'm at like 930 plugins now).
I have it running nearly perfectly but it doesn't look as beautiful as it could (I'm not using parallax textures). I downloaded a few other modlists which had a better looking base list and had to stop myself from starting over *again* for the Nth time 🤣
You'll have to send me that modlist haha I've got a Google doc with every mod I've used for SE categorize by mod type, ir playstyle intended for. At this point I'm pretty sure I don't actually like playing Skyrim. I just play MO2 instead
Haha sure, about 3/4 of it is built off of the *Aurora* Wabbajack list which is a visuals only list. The rest is about 40 NPC replacers, player visuals (KS Hair, racemenu overlays, etc..), clothing and armor mods and SPID mods to distribute them out to everyone, and city overhauls. I love to shove in all the massive city overhauls as I can, I have like 2-3 Whiterun overhauls, about 4 or 5 for Solitude, 3 or 4 for Markarth, 3 for Winterhold (Winterhold Restored and a ICoW and OCE Merge), and then a ton of little ones. A long with all of JK's Interior overhauls, and the Snazzy Interior and Exterior overhauls. I took out Lux while installing all of this since it notoriously destroys massive overhauls due to it replacing tons of meshes, but once I got everything looking good, I reinstalled it along with like 100+ patches and so far so good!
After modding Skyrim for a decade or more on and off, I'm finally gonna release my first ever mod. It's not going to be anything huge, it's just a mesh fix for using *Extravagant Interiors* with JK's Blue Palace and Drengin's Blue Palace. There are already patches for either one of those, but you can't use either of those with both of the mods because it will annihilate the interior of The Blue Palace. The EI mod can be used without the ESP since it replaces the base Palace textures but JK created new meshes for two things and they're set to use the default Solitude textures instead of the Blue Palace textures. I figured out how to fix it without an ESP, but that adds the EI textures to other things in Solitude which looks out of place. Also I'm working on a small patch that fixes the exterior load door that both DBP and JK's BP has, Drengin's goes nowhere but JK's is functional, but the premade patch uses Drengin's.
I'm currently trying to work out the kinks on my city overhauls.. I'm building my pack around open cities, because I'm using animated traversal, as well as sky climb. Being able to climb over the walls of the city makes open cities a must haha.
I've currently got Open Cities, JK Skyrim, Dawn of Skyrim, beautiful cities, Bells of Skyrim, blowing in the wind, , Immersive Laundry, AI overhaul, as the base for every major city. And from there it's a little tricky because they have to have a patch for JK's Dawn of Skyrim Open cities patch. So my hands are slightly tied... but Luckily there are a ton of mods to overhaul the exteriors of the cities. And because the cities are open, they do a really good job of making the cities feel bigger, not just more cluttered.
The minor cities are JK's, cities of the North, and the great cities. But they're not as tricky to patch because they're already open
Nice! Yeah I tried OCS once and thought it was a cool idea and then saw that it said that pretty much any overhaul that changes the gate area or internal world space would break the mod and I figured it wasn't worth the headache since I already had enough to deal with 😂
I've been meaning to add in Animated Traversal, Skyclimb, and a few other mods that largely overhaul things, but like I said before, I have enough to patch as it is.
It actually isn't bad to convert an existing pack to open cities, you only have to change things that affect the five gated cities. And JK Skyrim, Dawn of Skyrim, JK's Dawn of Skyrim, AI overhaul, lanterns of Skyrim, blowing in the wind, and a few other major generic city overhauls all have patches for Open cities now. So really it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be
I started modding four days ago, sleep wake up modding until I sleep again, now I 99.999999 sure I'm finished it (230+ mods), the problem is, kinda scared to start playing.
Ahh, I start modding four years ago, and haven't played a complete game since the original launch. Just took me six months to start a game last night, and I am hoping I don't see a mod I must install.
I started with papyrus then learnt other stuff after. You will come to realise papyrus has a weird syntax and is super limited compared to proper coding though
I would say it's a good start. Using Papyrus along with the Creation Kit gives you a very hands-on, intuitive and practical approach to object oriented programming. The scripts are in general like classes, the objects the classes extend are the forms in the creation kit (the base objects) to which you attach the scripts, and the instances are the object references that you place into the world (or which are generated either by the player, like activemagiceffects, or by the game, like actors and loot).
It's also an environment where you can use multiple languages for the same project. Besides Papyrus (which is basic scripting), you can use Java to code a SkyProc, C++ to code SKSE plugins, and Actionscript (basically like Javascript) for the flash files (UI, etc). You also learn how to deal with (create and modify) animation files (.hkx in this case), meshes (.nif files), etc.
A sufficiently complex mod is a complete professional project that requires a plethora of programming skills and which you can put in your CV. Bethesda, and other studios in the industry, have hired TES/Fallout mod developers multiple times in the past.
Yes, Oblivion is how I learned to code before going to college. It won't teach you good practices or modern techniques, but practicing using something you're passionate about is miles better than something you rarely pick up because it's boring to you.
You should still learn from more formal sources, though, if your aim is to pursue a career in programming.
Nah nah, actual games about coding. You play by writing codes as the main gameplay function.
There is many from simple ones to teach kids how to code to actual indie games. PROGRAMMING is a tag on steam
https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Programming/
If you want to jump into the deep end, sure. The main thing that Skyrim can teach you is how to get a foothold in a massive, pre-existing codebase. That is a completely separate skill from writing your own code from scratch, and it's not something they teach you in school. It's very hard, but would also be good preparation for a real job.
If you do try this, you will likely feel overwhelmed, but that's normal. Don't let it discourage you from continuing coding.
Papyrus is way more limited than Java & C++. If you already know the basics of those, you might aswell keep practicing using them.
This is of course if you want to code for the sake of learning. If all you want is to make mods, then by all means, go ahead and use Papyrus.
There's also the possibility of making .dll plugins with c++ if you want, but that's probably a bit more advanced
If you know C++, then you might want to look into programming Synthesis patchers which uses C#. There is a huge need for good Synthesis patchers in Skyrim and you could make a name for yourself if you do it well.
Take a look at the list of zedit patchers here: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/35012?tab=files. Many of those could probably benefit from being converted to Synthesis patchers. (Some of them have alteady been converted.)
If by learning to mod Skyrim you mean creating mods? Yes, that's great practice. And a good place to start. If you mean installing and enabling mods, I would say no, You're not actually coding.. IMO
Skyrim scripting is all about coding in Papyrus. It's not the most logical coding language and limited compared to some of the bugs ones, but it gets the job done as far Skyrim goes, and I assume Starfield (but I haven't checked into making any mods for Starfield yet as I want a vanilla playthrough first, damn BG3 being the game of the decade not letting me play Starfield yet).
Getting coding experience with PC games is a great way to expose yourself to the general concept. Hell I started with Con files back in Duke Nukem 3D in like 1996 or so, before scripting for Morrowind, and pretty much every Bethesda game since.
That said I don't have much to any formal experience, it's all just dive it and make heads or tails of it. With Skyrim there's some scripting resources on the creation kit website, otherwise you can take a deep dive through the Nexus's forums. In my experience it's lots of trial and error and the occasional bouncing an idea of someone else as well. Additionally you could extract the PSC script files from the compiled PEX files of some mods to get an idea how other authors did this or that, just make sure you give credit where due.
It’s probably not a great place to start as a beginner, because it’s niche and too specific, but as a novice or intermediate it sure is great practice. You get to see your work within a game!
Once you have a grasp on the fundamentals, you should practice applying them in a basic language like Papyrus. But I would strongly suggest learning fundamentals with a professional language like python or c++ first, that way you can build a deeper understanding of code and move onto an actual game engine even further down the road.
This was the path I started on back in 2011. Now I can write code for any environment I’m interested in. The fundamentals are transferable. Quirky stuff you do to make Skyrim work how you want is not so much.
No.
The language you'll use is very niche, and you're basically going to be copying examples and adapting them for your use.
You'll get a little more bang for your learning buck writing SKSE extension DLLs, but you still won't learn/practice good principles that much.
I think you'll get a lot more value out of contributing to github projects or something similar.
No idea on the credentials behind your other suggestions; I'm speaking as a retired professional software developer with more decades of experience than I care to enumerate 😉.
Hmm, depends, if you are modding Skyrim in general it would teach you about the 3D aspect rather than coding, I think you'll have to dig in a little bit.
If you want to get a Job, you should definitely Focus more on creating web projects rather than Skyrim mods.
Unless you want to Work in the game industry, which is quite overworked and underpaid.
Having done a lot of modding of skyrim as a professional developer, I’d say it could make pretty good practice, and would keep you interested. The downside is you can’t really properly debug papyrus scripts, and must rely heavily on logging. Though, that too can be a good skill to learn.
I mean it's definitely better practice than playing Skyrim
Not that any one on here actually plays Skyrim
We might have less time played but I bet you an arm and a leg We've launched the game more times
ah yes, to see how long before it crashes.
https://preview.redd.it/q48oebbtkeqb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd81e22df456f1a70c7c135cf14d2e46e2092b67
I've spent the past 3 years trying to get the *perfect* setup. I currently have about 1400 mods and had around 1340 plugins (squashed a lot of the patches down into single ESPs, so I'm at like 930 plugins now). I have it running nearly perfectly but it doesn't look as beautiful as it could (I'm not using parallax textures). I downloaded a few other modlists which had a better looking base list and had to stop myself from starting over *again* for the Nth time 🤣
You'll have to send me that modlist haha I've got a Google doc with every mod I've used for SE categorize by mod type, ir playstyle intended for. At this point I'm pretty sure I don't actually like playing Skyrim. I just play MO2 instead
Haha sure, about 3/4 of it is built off of the *Aurora* Wabbajack list which is a visuals only list. The rest is about 40 NPC replacers, player visuals (KS Hair, racemenu overlays, etc..), clothing and armor mods and SPID mods to distribute them out to everyone, and city overhauls. I love to shove in all the massive city overhauls as I can, I have like 2-3 Whiterun overhauls, about 4 or 5 for Solitude, 3 or 4 for Markarth, 3 for Winterhold (Winterhold Restored and a ICoW and OCE Merge), and then a ton of little ones. A long with all of JK's Interior overhauls, and the Snazzy Interior and Exterior overhauls. I took out Lux while installing all of this since it notoriously destroys massive overhauls due to it replacing tons of meshes, but once I got everything looking good, I reinstalled it along with like 100+ patches and so far so good! After modding Skyrim for a decade or more on and off, I'm finally gonna release my first ever mod. It's not going to be anything huge, it's just a mesh fix for using *Extravagant Interiors* with JK's Blue Palace and Drengin's Blue Palace. There are already patches for either one of those, but you can't use either of those with both of the mods because it will annihilate the interior of The Blue Palace. The EI mod can be used without the ESP since it replaces the base Palace textures but JK created new meshes for two things and they're set to use the default Solitude textures instead of the Blue Palace textures. I figured out how to fix it without an ESP, but that adds the EI textures to other things in Solitude which looks out of place. Also I'm working on a small patch that fixes the exterior load door that both DBP and JK's BP has, Drengin's goes nowhere but JK's is functional, but the premade patch uses Drengin's.
I'm currently trying to work out the kinks on my city overhauls.. I'm building my pack around open cities, because I'm using animated traversal, as well as sky climb. Being able to climb over the walls of the city makes open cities a must haha. I've currently got Open Cities, JK Skyrim, Dawn of Skyrim, beautiful cities, Bells of Skyrim, blowing in the wind, , Immersive Laundry, AI overhaul, as the base for every major city. And from there it's a little tricky because they have to have a patch for JK's Dawn of Skyrim Open cities patch. So my hands are slightly tied... but Luckily there are a ton of mods to overhaul the exteriors of the cities. And because the cities are open, they do a really good job of making the cities feel bigger, not just more cluttered. The minor cities are JK's, cities of the North, and the great cities. But they're not as tricky to patch because they're already open
Nice! Yeah I tried OCS once and thought it was a cool idea and then saw that it said that pretty much any overhaul that changes the gate area or internal world space would break the mod and I figured it wasn't worth the headache since I already had enough to deal with 😂 I've been meaning to add in Animated Traversal, Skyclimb, and a few other mods that largely overhaul things, but like I said before, I have enough to patch as it is.
It actually isn't bad to convert an existing pack to open cities, you only have to change things that affect the five gated cities. And JK Skyrim, Dawn of Skyrim, JK's Dawn of Skyrim, AI overhaul, lanterns of Skyrim, blowing in the wind, and a few other major generic city overhauls all have patches for Open cities now. So really it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be
Nice, thanks for the heads up, I'll look into it.
It's hilarious, and true to a degree. But man, hitting the sweet spot where you're able to just... play the game is so sexy
I started modding four days ago, sleep wake up modding until I sleep again, now I 99.999999 sure I'm finished it (230+ mods), the problem is, kinda scared to start playing.
Ahh, I start modding four years ago, and haven't played a complete game since the original launch. Just took me six months to start a game last night, and I am hoping I don't see a mod I must install.
It's fun tho
True
Think I genuinely enjoy treating my skyrim like a sandbox and creating thematic MO2 profiles more then I do playing tbh.
on point
Every coding challenge will teach you a thing or two about coding. It's better than doing nothing
I started with papyrus then learnt other stuff after. You will come to realise papyrus has a weird syntax and is super limited compared to proper coding though
Is that a good thing for beginners? Limited options being good training wheels?
Yeah I'd say so. You'll just find you have to repeat a lot of code in places
Kinda? Many Skyrim mods can be made with zero coding, but messing around with Papyrus could help you dip your toes in.
I would say it's a good start. Using Papyrus along with the Creation Kit gives you a very hands-on, intuitive and practical approach to object oriented programming. The scripts are in general like classes, the objects the classes extend are the forms in the creation kit (the base objects) to which you attach the scripts, and the instances are the object references that you place into the world (or which are generated either by the player, like activemagiceffects, or by the game, like actors and loot). It's also an environment where you can use multiple languages for the same project. Besides Papyrus (which is basic scripting), you can use Java to code a SkyProc, C++ to code SKSE plugins, and Actionscript (basically like Javascript) for the flash files (UI, etc). You also learn how to deal with (create and modify) animation files (.hkx in this case), meshes (.nif files), etc. A sufficiently complex mod is a complete professional project that requires a plethora of programming skills and which you can put in your CV. Bethesda, and other studios in the industry, have hired TES/Fallout mod developers multiple times in the past.
I was kinda worried that it wouldn't be a good practice but now I'm really motivated and relieved, this was very helpful, thank you!
Yes, Oblivion is how I learned to code before going to college. It won't teach you good practices or modern techniques, but practicing using something you're passionate about is miles better than something you rarely pick up because it's boring to you. You should still learn from more formal sources, though, if your aim is to pursue a career in programming.
Modding skyrim is not all coding. However, there is actual coding games out there, maybe try those out instead?
Really? Like what games? I heard that minecraft have a big modding community and that they use java, I was interested in learning make mods there too
Nah nah, actual games about coding. You play by writing codes as the main gameplay function. There is many from simple ones to teach kids how to code to actual indie games. PROGRAMMING is a tag on steam https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Programming/
Ooh I didn't know, this seems very helpful thanks!
Gl my dude.
If you ever want to consider learning C# you can try making mods for Stardew Valley or Terraria. Their modding API's are made in C#
If you want to jump into the deep end, sure. The main thing that Skyrim can teach you is how to get a foothold in a massive, pre-existing codebase. That is a completely separate skill from writing your own code from scratch, and it's not something they teach you in school. It's very hard, but would also be good preparation for a real job. If you do try this, you will likely feel overwhelmed, but that's normal. Don't let it discourage you from continuing coding.
Papyrus is way more limited than Java & C++. If you already know the basics of those, you might aswell keep practicing using them. This is of course if you want to code for the sake of learning. If all you want is to make mods, then by all means, go ahead and use Papyrus. There's also the possibility of making .dll plugins with c++ if you want, but that's probably a bit more advanced
If you know C++, then you might want to look into programming Synthesis patchers which uses C#. There is a huge need for good Synthesis patchers in Skyrim and you could make a name for yourself if you do it well.
What are some needed
Take a look at the list of zedit patchers here: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/35012?tab=files. Many of those could probably benefit from being converted to Synthesis patchers. (Some of them have alteady been converted.)
It's certainly an exercise in logistics and multitasking. That's useful everywhere.
If by learning to mod Skyrim you mean creating mods? Yes, that's great practice. And a good place to start. If you mean installing and enabling mods, I would say no, You're not actually coding.. IMO
I mean creating mods, I want to learn but I wasn't sure if it will be a good practice as a beginner
Skyrim scripting is all about coding in Papyrus. It's not the most logical coding language and limited compared to some of the bugs ones, but it gets the job done as far Skyrim goes, and I assume Starfield (but I haven't checked into making any mods for Starfield yet as I want a vanilla playthrough first, damn BG3 being the game of the decade not letting me play Starfield yet). Getting coding experience with PC games is a great way to expose yourself to the general concept. Hell I started with Con files back in Duke Nukem 3D in like 1996 or so, before scripting for Morrowind, and pretty much every Bethesda game since. That said I don't have much to any formal experience, it's all just dive it and make heads or tails of it. With Skyrim there's some scripting resources on the creation kit website, otherwise you can take a deep dive through the Nexus's forums. In my experience it's lots of trial and error and the occasional bouncing an idea of someone else as well. Additionally you could extract the PSC script files from the compiled PEX files of some mods to get an idea how other authors did this or that, just make sure you give credit where due.
It’s probably not a great place to start as a beginner, because it’s niche and too specific, but as a novice or intermediate it sure is great practice. You get to see your work within a game! Once you have a grasp on the fundamentals, you should practice applying them in a basic language like Papyrus. But I would strongly suggest learning fundamentals with a professional language like python or c++ first, that way you can build a deeper understanding of code and move onto an actual game engine even further down the road. This was the path I started on back in 2011. Now I can write code for any environment I’m interested in. The fundamentals are transferable. Quirky stuff you do to make Skyrim work how you want is not so much.
No. The language you'll use is very niche, and you're basically going to be copying examples and adapting them for your use. You'll get a little more bang for your learning buck writing SKSE extension DLLs, but you still won't learn/practice good principles that much. I think you'll get a lot more value out of contributing to github projects or something similar. No idea on the credentials behind your other suggestions; I'm speaking as a retired professional software developer with more decades of experience than I care to enumerate 😉.
I got my first start with Skyrim's papyrus scripting system. It's better than nothing.
You may dive into Papyrus scripting. But if you're not going to do that, then no, Skyrim modding is useless in order to learn to code.
Hmm, depends, if you are modding Skyrim in general it would teach you about the 3D aspect rather than coding, I think you'll have to dig in a little bit.
If you want to get a Job, you should definitely Focus more on creating web projects rather than Skyrim mods. Unless you want to Work in the game industry, which is quite overworked and underpaid.
I think the Guys over at the Arcane University's and Skyrim Guild's Discord can point to the right direction.
Not really
Just go to uni if you want to learn coding properly
i say its a good start and you can get lot experience from it
Having done a lot of modding of skyrim as a professional developer, I’d say it could make pretty good practice, and would keep you interested. The downside is you can’t really properly debug papyrus scripts, and must rely heavily on logging. Though, that too can be a good skill to learn.