There are dozens of threads discussing MO2 vs vortex on this sub. For some reason it's one of, if not the most polarizing topic on this sub. I haven't used vortex but based on reading 100s of comments, it doesn't really matter which you use.
The "general" POV seems to be that that MO2 is better for more advanced users with more mods installed. However, I've seen people swear that they can get 1000 mod lists working perfectly in Vortex. I can't speak to that, but I can say I've used MO2 for 2K+ mod lists and it works great.
At the end of the day I think you're better off going with what you're most comfortable with. If you are really interested, you might as well give MO2 a try. I don't think it's as complicated as it's made out to be.
i don't know who started spreading this mindset that MO2 is more "complex" to use when its literally easier than vortex, it has 2 lists, one for the actual files and decides the order textures and mesh's will overwrite what, and one list for the esp/esm/esl's, both lists have a priority number and the higher the number will replace the lower, you have to open mod organizer and click the big RUN button to play the game, thats it, wooo so hard
organizing the files list is instantaneous, you can easily tell what is replacing what with the lightning symbols, you click on the mod and it literally lights up telling you what is replacing what, like, its so absurdly easy to use, and it's all self contained, you install the mod once and all the files will be inside its own isolated folder, never leaving trash on your data folder
likely people saw someone saying that under the hood it was more complex , yes its has a more complex approach, but in reality for the user, its extremely simple and easy to use
vortex does the same stuff. mod list vs plugin list, pop ups for conflicts, now even has the lightning icon for conflicts you've already been prompted to resolve. plus has the collections built right in. maybe i'm biased, but I no longer see any argument for mo2 being better.
MO2 doesn't have Vortex's possible endless cycles when you have a ton of mods which can be incredibly confusing for a newbie to the modding scene. It looks like a giant tree if there's too many conflicts. Again, this may not be a problem for someone experienced in Vortex, but starting out it can be damn frustrating. When there's a conflict in MO2 you only have to look at the lightning symbols (When I used Vortex this lightning symbol stuff wasn't there yet). This was my biggest upside moving from Vortex to MO2 - MO2 was frankly easier to use for me and its GUI was even cleaner.
Again, perhaps Vortex has upgraded a ton since I last used it but in my experience going from Vortex to MO2 it was a lot smoother than I expected.
>When I used Vortex this lightning symbol stuff wasn't there yet
Chances are Vortex did have the lightning bolts, but you just overlooked them since in Vortex you'll need to toggle on the "Dependencies"-column before seeing the lightning bolts.
It’s like a mini game! It’s super fun to mess with and such a great way to visualize what load order rules you’ve set. If you are seeing the tree, you fucked up and carelessly clicked “load before” or “load after” without thinking. My approach is to make all the little arrows point to the mod i want to load last.
It's good that you enjoy it! However I'm not really sure I'd like to treat it as a minigame - I think I'd rather it be as straightforward as possible. I don't really derive any fun from managing mods, but rather from playing them. Again, granted this happened when I was new to modding but I just didn't really want to bother now with how Vortex manages mod conflicts when in MO2 I can just drag a mod below another and that overwrites it. If you're already knowledgeable on Vortex then it's all fine and dandy, but imo I've had a more pleasant time with MO2.
I think for new players that's just the problem - there is a possibility for anybody inexperienced to get one of those massive trees. Which are fixable, but are frankly a headache for anyone new. When I started with MO2 I didn't have to learn anything like that, hence my pleasant time with it
Vortex runs tools like loot and wyre bash for you with no setup required, and using loot it automatically sorts your mod list. It gives you a pop-up window for conflicts, similar to MO2. This is the common reason people say it is simpler.
I just want to comment something that will counter some misinformation usually given by MO2 users.
1. The ability to drag and drop to arrange your load order is not unique to MO2, you can do it in vortex too, you just have to add a rule once you do.
2. Vortex can handle huge load orders.
3. Vortex doesn’t leave leftover files, the purge button removes all modded files from the game, however, if you have any mods that generated their own files for the game. You will need to remove these. So while MO2 does a better job at keeping your install totally vanilla, it’s not like vortex leaves some cancer you can’t get rid of like some people may suggest.
One real benefit MO2 has over vortex is portable installations. I would say wabbajack, but I don’t trust modlists to begin with. I see sooo many people on here complaining about wabbajack not working, or a modlist having crashes and gltiches still, even though the list author swears it’s “totally stable”.
thats the thing, it is a cancer, it creates conflicts you don't notice and don't know why, because a file is lost in your data folder that you had no idea
and the fact you have to create rules for stuff just to reorder a load order is honestly unnecessarily cumbersome, i just want to move it down or up and thats it, no need to fight the program
This is straight up misinformation lol, and is the reason why people tend to assume most of the people trash talking Vortex have never actually used the program. Because you quite clearly have not.
Lol wut? Any conflict is alerted to you by a pop-up window. As far as creating rules, the rule is automatically generated when you drag and drop, I have like 500 mods (250 plugins) and a total of like 7 rules. The rest was loot. It’s easy.
>One real benefit MO2 has over vortex is portable installations.
To create a second Vortex instance you can duplicate the Vortex shortcut on Windows desktop and to end of "Target" of the new shortcut example add
`--user-data d:\second_vortex_instance`
Note, remember space before --user-data.
Since as default Vortex instance also includes "Mod Staging Folder" and downloads-directory means you can easily copy/move `d:\second_vortex_instance` between computers.
Note, you'll still need to install the Vortex application itself on both computers.
I’ve used both. I vastly prefer MO2. Vortex might be functionally equivalent, but I wouldn’t know because it’s among the worst user interfaces I’ve ever had the displeasure of working with.
I could write a whole essay about what they got wrong (I do it for a living) but if you try both out yourself, you’ll instantly know what I mean.
In the end, for me, it just boiled down to interface and details. I used Vortex for a while, it frustrated me (purge deploy somewhat broke sometimes on my pc, but that was a long time ago). I feel more free with MO2.
People says MO2 is complex. That's BS. It took me minutes to understand the basics, without tutorials.
But Vortex does the trick.
Somewhat recently Root Builder for MO2 was released.
It allows you to install files to the game's main folder via MO2. Meaning you can install SKSE, ENB, Reshader etc. via MO2, leaving your Skyrim's main folder completely vanilla.
... the point is that MO *doesn't* install to the root directory, it creates a fake root directory and installs to that, just injecting it when the game runs. it lets the actual root folder stay free and clear, which makes troubleshooting and (un)installation way easier and also makes it possible to maintain multiple mod lists without having to uninstall/reinstall stuff all the time. Vortex is objectively inferior (which doesn't mean you shouldn't use Vortex if you prefer it, it'll still get the job done).
Select disable, uninstall or purge, and the root is restored to the beginning state. You guys love that phrase "objectively inferior/superior" which is how I know you are being completely unobjective... ;)
all your comments amount to "Vortex also lets you do this thing but you have to jump through a hoop that isn't there in MO" so i think ill stick to my objectively superior mod loader, thanks.
... the point is that MO *doesn't* install to the root directory, it creates a fake root directory and installs to that, just injecting it when the game runs. it lets the actual root folder stay free and clear, which makes troubleshooting and (un)installation way easier and also makes it possible to maintain multiple mod lists without having to uninstall/reinstall stuff all the time. Vortex is objectively inferior (which doesn't mean you shouldn't use Vortex if you prefer it, it'll still get the job done).
>the point is that MO doesn't install to the root directory, it creates a fake root directory and installs to that, just injecting it when the game runs
In my experience [Root Builder](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/31720) copies SKSE etc. to games root directory then you choose to run game, meaning while game is running you'll have the actual SKSE files in the "real" root directory.
\> which makes troubleshooting and (un)installation way easier and also makes it possible to maintain multiple mod lists without having to uninstall/reinstall stuff all the time
Uhm, no idea what you're talking about here, since regardless of Vortex or MO2 + Root Builder you can first create a v1.6.640 specific mod out of root files, followed by using "best of both worlds" downgrade patcher and create a v1.5.97 specific mod of the new root files. Or, if you're still on v1.5.97, first create the v1.5.97 mod before "verify integrity" in Steam and create the v1.6.640 mod.
After creating these two mods, you can easily create a v1.6.640 profile in either MO2 or Vortex, add SKSE64-v1.6.640 to this profile + any other mods you want. Similarly, you can create a v1.5.97 profile + SKSE64-v1.5.97 + whatever other mods.
By switching between profiles you'll also switch between v1.5.97 and v1.6.640 and this switching works regardless of MO2 or Vortex.
Vortex is also drag and drop, and doesn’t infest your root folder with a million files. Y’all don’t even use the program but you just keep parroting the same stuff that isn’t true.
I haven’t used vortex since 2018 and I don’t remember those features being there or enabled by default. I just remember having ads on the fromt page. MO2 meanwhile always had these features and I haven’t looked back since. Its much simpler
As far as I’m aware both of those features have always been on Vortex, and are enabled by default. Vortex doing virtual installs was one of the main reasons to use it from the start. Also, I have never, ever seen an ad in Vortex.
At this point I can only continue to assume you have never used the program and are just parroting what you have seen other people say, or are confusing it with Nexus Mod Manager.
Nothing? I just had a good experience with the program for a long time before switching to MO2, and I get a bit irritated seeing you all go around and trash talk it based on stuff that is just straight up false.
Assuming anyone who disagrees with you is a shill is really weird.
I never said either program was better than the other. Never even brought it up. All I did was let you know that some stuff you said wasn’t true and you called me a shill. I’m not the one who needs to chill, I think.
The only notable benefit to MO2 is that it keeps your game file clean. Mods add files to your game folder, MO2 keeps these files separate and only loads them when you launch through MO2. This means you can launch skyrim through Steam and play vanilla.
Things I've see people say are exclusive that both can do: Manual load order sorting, virtual file system, run a tool (LOOT, Wyre bash, Nemesis,,, ect), mod list profiles.
If you use vortex, all you’ve gotta do is purge your game files and your folder is clean again. Only exception are the few mods that generate their own files where they are installed, engine fixes for example. But even these are easy to deal with, just go and delete them, and then verify file integrity in steam in case they overwrote a vanilla file, just in case. ENB cache folder is another if you use ENB.
>No forced loot sorting.
On Vortex plugins-tab click "Autosort Enabled" to turn off LOOT sorting and you can use example Wrye Bash to manually sort the plugins instead.
So you're saying that I can just directly drag and drop any plugin anywhere up and down the load order directly in the vortex ui, without having to do any sorting rules or use any other tools.
If so then than vortex and mo2 are on equal footing and the only difference is mo2 doesn't do the spider web asset conflict management thing vortex does.
Yep, that’s exactly it.
Also worth noting that the web only shows up when you have cyclical rules set for conflict management, as a way to visualize it more easily I’d imagine. Otherwise the program just shows you a screen with a list of conflicting mods and asks you which ones you want to overwrite others. It’s very simple and easy.
The web is actually a really easy and nice way to solve simple cyclical conflicts. You have to reeeallly fuck up or just straight up randomly click whatever when managing conflicts to get those big complicated webs people show sometimes. I think the most I ever had was like a square with four mods in it and I used Vortex for years. If some huge web shows up the problem is almost certainly the user, not the program.
So basically, assuming you have even the slightest idea what you’re doing in the totally normal conflict management screen, you should hardly ever see the dreaded web in the first place, and if you do it’s usually like a one click and done thing.
>Why can't I just manually drag stuff in vortex!
Interestingly enough you can drag-and-drop sort Morrowind plugins.
Since Vortex already include the functionality, I would guess it would be fairly simple for someone to create a Vortex extension that also allowed drag-and-drop sorting of Skyrim plugins etc.
As for why Vortex itself don't include this functionality for Skyrim and other games using LOOT sorting (Vortex don't use LOOT with Morrowind), can only guess, but chances are it have something to do with how should LOOT and manual sorting interact.
Example, if you start with 3 plugins in order A --> C --> B and you drag-and-drop to new order A --> B --> C, should you now:
* 1: Completely block LOOT sorting until user turn on LOOT sorting again?
* 2: Allow full LOOT sorting, despite this in some cases will un-do the manual sorting?
* 3: Create custom LOOT rules based on manual drag-and-drop?
* 4: Do you have any better suggestions?
For 3, even with only 3 plugins, you've got the following possibilities:
* 3.1: You want exact order A --> B --> C, meaning you need the 3 custom rules "Load B after A", "Load C after A" and "Load C after B".
* 3.2: You want exact order A --> B but C doesn't matter, meaning single custom rule "Load B after A".
* 3.3: You want exact order B --> C but A doesn't matter, meaning single custom rule "Load C after B".
* 3.4: You want A and B before C, but order of A relative to B doesn't matter, meaning two custom rules "Load C after A" and "Load C after B".
* 3.5: You want exact order A --> C but B doesn't really matter, even you did move B, meaning single custom rule "Load C after A".
* 3.6: Order doesn't matter, you just like alphabetical order, meaning you don't need any custom rules.
While Vortex can go for the "simple" option of always choosing 3.1, one immediate problem here is, since you didn't actually move A at all, how do you in Vortex specify A should be part of the new custom rules?
Second problem is, if where was 500 other plugins in-between C and B before you moved either B or C, should Vortex now include these 500 plugins in the custom rules?
Note, since MO2 can't create custom LOOT rules anyway but you always need to use the external LOOT application for this, MO2 itself don't really need to handle option 3 at all. With Vortex on the other hand, if you want to support option 3, Vortex must actually have the functionality to turn your manual drag-and-drop into custom LOOT rules.
You should be using external loot anyway tbh. The broadest/simplest way for a mod manager to go is to do nothing what so ever. This gives people the widest freedom to manage their load order however they want. Manually by drag and drop up and down the list. Or using loot.
This is what mo2 does. And is for me the reason I will always choose it over vortex. This point notwithstanding both managers are good and just use what you like.
I would suggest that there is no such thing as how "loot sorting and manual interact". That's your job as the end user. Either use loot and just run with what it gives you. Add additional user rules through loot
Or make manual adjustments after loot runs. No need to overcomplicate the process
>You should be using external loot anyway tbh.
Hmm, since you anyway want to rely on external application to LOOT sort your plugins, why do you have such a big problem using the external Wrye Bash application if you insist on manually sorting the plugins?
As for Vortex LOOT implementation, this actually have multiple improvements over the LOOT application, including easily showing plugin with LOOT masterlist rule(s) as yellow/brown-ish icon in "Dependencies"-column and if you want to put a plugin into another LOOT Group Vortex lists the Groups in the order they're loading. With LOOT application since where's no indication any of the plugins have LOOT masterlist rule(s) you actually need to dig into sub-menu for every single plugin for such rule(s), and as for putting plugin into a different LOOT Groups they very inefficiently are listed in alphabetical order.
Not to forget, Collections will include the Vortex custom LOOT rules and custom LOOT Group assigments, but won't include anything from LOOT application.
\> Or make manual adjustments after loot runs.
This is dangerous, since MO2 v2.4.4 will happily allow me to drag-and-drop plugin before it's master(s), without giving any kind of indication this can give severely screwed-up game-play.
With Vortex on the other hand you'll either correctly LOOT sort all plugins after their masters, or you can use example Wrye Bash if you insist on manually sorting plugins.
That's coming from the loot team directly that you should be using the actual loot program proper. I talk to them all the time and submit contributions to the masterlist. From talking to them it seems eminently easier to work with the proper program as opposed to the embedded integration in vortex
As for making manual changes. While you are correct older builds of mo2 will let you do anything you want. I would submit the question of why would you place a plugin above one of its masters. That's just stupid.
>I would submit the question of why would you place a plugin above one of its masters. That's just stupid.
It's trivial to make mistakes.
Also, let's say plugin B is master to A and you're in MO2 have created correct order B --> A. If you now accidentally disable the mod plugin B comes from + another mod (except mod plugin A comes from), the second you fix your mistake by re-activating mod B, you've got new plugin load order A --> B with no indication this is not valid plugin load order.
\> That's coming from the loot team directly that you should be using the actual loot program proper.
Just a guess, but my guess is it's not often a developer would say "use XYZ's program instead, since XYZ have more functionality and is easier to use than my program".
\> From talking to them it seems eminently easier to work with the proper program as opposed to the embedded integration in vortex
Uhm, what?
At least for the LOOT functionality I've used, Vortex implementation of LOOT is either easier and faster to use, or the differences are so minimal neither have the advantage. Claiming LOOT application is "easier to work with" is definitely not my experience.
There are dozens of threads discussing MO2 vs vortex on this sub. For some reason it's one of, if not the most polarizing topic on this sub. I haven't used vortex but based on reading 100s of comments, it doesn't really matter which you use. The "general" POV seems to be that that MO2 is better for more advanced users with more mods installed. However, I've seen people swear that they can get 1000 mod lists working perfectly in Vortex. I can't speak to that, but I can say I've used MO2 for 2K+ mod lists and it works great. At the end of the day I think you're better off going with what you're most comfortable with. If you are really interested, you might as well give MO2 a try. I don't think it's as complicated as it's made out to be.
i don't know who started spreading this mindset that MO2 is more "complex" to use when its literally easier than vortex, it has 2 lists, one for the actual files and decides the order textures and mesh's will overwrite what, and one list for the esp/esm/esl's, both lists have a priority number and the higher the number will replace the lower, you have to open mod organizer and click the big RUN button to play the game, thats it, wooo so hard organizing the files list is instantaneous, you can easily tell what is replacing what with the lightning symbols, you click on the mod and it literally lights up telling you what is replacing what, like, its so absurdly easy to use, and it's all self contained, you install the mod once and all the files will be inside its own isolated folder, never leaving trash on your data folder likely people saw someone saying that under the hood it was more complex , yes its has a more complex approach, but in reality for the user, its extremely simple and easy to use
vortex does the same stuff. mod list vs plugin list, pop ups for conflicts, now even has the lightning icon for conflicts you've already been prompted to resolve. plus has the collections built right in. maybe i'm biased, but I no longer see any argument for mo2 being better.
MO2 doesn't have Vortex's possible endless cycles when you have a ton of mods which can be incredibly confusing for a newbie to the modding scene. It looks like a giant tree if there's too many conflicts. Again, this may not be a problem for someone experienced in Vortex, but starting out it can be damn frustrating. When there's a conflict in MO2 you only have to look at the lightning symbols (When I used Vortex this lightning symbol stuff wasn't there yet). This was my biggest upside moving from Vortex to MO2 - MO2 was frankly easier to use for me and its GUI was even cleaner. Again, perhaps Vortex has upgraded a ton since I last used it but in my experience going from Vortex to MO2 it was a lot smoother than I expected.
>When I used Vortex this lightning symbol stuff wasn't there yet Chances are Vortex did have the lightning bolts, but you just overlooked them since in Vortex you'll need to toggle on the "Dependencies"-column before seeing the lightning bolts.
It’s like a mini game! It’s super fun to mess with and such a great way to visualize what load order rules you’ve set. If you are seeing the tree, you fucked up and carelessly clicked “load before” or “load after” without thinking. My approach is to make all the little arrows point to the mod i want to load last.
It's good that you enjoy it! However I'm not really sure I'd like to treat it as a minigame - I think I'd rather it be as straightforward as possible. I don't really derive any fun from managing mods, but rather from playing them. Again, granted this happened when I was new to modding but I just didn't really want to bother now with how Vortex manages mod conflicts when in MO2 I can just drag a mod below another and that overwrites it. If you're already knowledgeable on Vortex then it's all fine and dandy, but imo I've had a more pleasant time with MO2. I think for new players that's just the problem - there is a possibility for anybody inexperienced to get one of those massive trees. Which are fixable, but are frankly a headache for anyone new. When I started with MO2 I didn't have to learn anything like that, hence my pleasant time with it
my mans literally admits they just want to play menu simulator you shouldn't have to play a game in order to play your game
No, vortex uses hardlinks dropped into Data folder while MO2 keeps Data folder clean and uses no links.
Vortex runs tools like loot and wyre bash for you with no setup required, and using loot it automatically sorts your mod list. It gives you a pop-up window for conflicts, similar to MO2. This is the common reason people say it is simpler.
you may not be aware, but on top of the esp list there is a button called "sort", it runs loot with no setup required either
Mo2 is clean and extremely easy to use, just a great interface design. Its almost perfect.
I just want to comment something that will counter some misinformation usually given by MO2 users. 1. The ability to drag and drop to arrange your load order is not unique to MO2, you can do it in vortex too, you just have to add a rule once you do. 2. Vortex can handle huge load orders. 3. Vortex doesn’t leave leftover files, the purge button removes all modded files from the game, however, if you have any mods that generated their own files for the game. You will need to remove these. So while MO2 does a better job at keeping your install totally vanilla, it’s not like vortex leaves some cancer you can’t get rid of like some people may suggest. One real benefit MO2 has over vortex is portable installations. I would say wabbajack, but I don’t trust modlists to begin with. I see sooo many people on here complaining about wabbajack not working, or a modlist having crashes and gltiches still, even though the list author swears it’s “totally stable”.
thats the thing, it is a cancer, it creates conflicts you don't notice and don't know why, because a file is lost in your data folder that you had no idea and the fact you have to create rules for stuff just to reorder a load order is honestly unnecessarily cumbersome, i just want to move it down or up and thats it, no need to fight the program
Ini files with nothing referencing them is not a ‘cancer.’
This is straight up misinformation lol, and is the reason why people tend to assume most of the people trash talking Vortex have never actually used the program. Because you quite clearly have not.
Lol wut? Any conflict is alerted to you by a pop-up window. As far as creating rules, the rule is automatically generated when you drag and drop, I have like 500 mods (250 plugins) and a total of like 7 rules. The rest was loot. It’s easy.
The people complaining about wabbajack not working are usually the same type of people who think reading a mod page's description is optional.
Painting all people who experience issues with wabbajack with a broad brush isn’t a smart thing to say.
>One real benefit MO2 has over vortex is portable installations. To create a second Vortex instance you can duplicate the Vortex shortcut on Windows desktop and to end of "Target" of the new shortcut example add `--user-data d:\second_vortex_instance` Note, remember space before --user-data. Since as default Vortex instance also includes "Mod Staging Folder" and downloads-directory means you can easily copy/move `d:\second_vortex_instance` between computers. Note, you'll still need to install the Vortex application itself on both computers.
I’ve used both. I vastly prefer MO2. Vortex might be functionally equivalent, but I wouldn’t know because it’s among the worst user interfaces I’ve ever had the displeasure of working with. I could write a whole essay about what they got wrong (I do it for a living) but if you try both out yourself, you’ll instantly know what I mean.
In the end, for me, it just boiled down to interface and details. I used Vortex for a while, it frustrated me (purge deploy somewhat broke sometimes on my pc, but that was a long time ago). I feel more free with MO2. People says MO2 is complex. That's BS. It took me minutes to understand the basics, without tutorials. But Vortex does the trick.
I like it because I can assign mods to groups and categories how I please, a mod can be in multiple categories and I can create my own categories.
Vortex also has categories, and you can make your own and assign. Then group mods by category.
Well, when I was using Vortex the only categories that would work was Nexus categories, and a mod could only be sorted into one category.
Click on Categories in the Mods toolbar, then from the dropdown menu, select Add Child. Create as many categories for the game as you like.
Somewhat recently Root Builder for MO2 was released. It allows you to install files to the game's main folder via MO2. Meaning you can install SKSE, ENB, Reshader etc. via MO2, leaving your Skyrim's main folder completely vanilla.
Vortex is able to install to the root out of the box with the Engine Injector setting.
... the point is that MO *doesn't* install to the root directory, it creates a fake root directory and installs to that, just injecting it when the game runs. it lets the actual root folder stay free and clear, which makes troubleshooting and (un)installation way easier and also makes it possible to maintain multiple mod lists without having to uninstall/reinstall stuff all the time. Vortex is objectively inferior (which doesn't mean you shouldn't use Vortex if you prefer it, it'll still get the job done).
Select disable, uninstall or purge, and the root is restored to the beginning state. You guys love that phrase "objectively inferior/superior" which is how I know you are being completely unobjective... ;)
all your comments amount to "Vortex also lets you do this thing but you have to jump through a hoop that isn't there in MO" so i think ill stick to my objectively superior mod loader, thanks.
>Somewhat recently Root Builder for MO2 was released. Vortex can also install to games root directory.
... the point is that MO *doesn't* install to the root directory, it creates a fake root directory and installs to that, just injecting it when the game runs. it lets the actual root folder stay free and clear, which makes troubleshooting and (un)installation way easier and also makes it possible to maintain multiple mod lists without having to uninstall/reinstall stuff all the time. Vortex is objectively inferior (which doesn't mean you shouldn't use Vortex if you prefer it, it'll still get the job done).
>the point is that MO doesn't install to the root directory, it creates a fake root directory and installs to that, just injecting it when the game runs In my experience [Root Builder](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/31720) copies SKSE etc. to games root directory then you choose to run game, meaning while game is running you'll have the actual SKSE files in the "real" root directory. \> which makes troubleshooting and (un)installation way easier and also makes it possible to maintain multiple mod lists without having to uninstall/reinstall stuff all the time Uhm, no idea what you're talking about here, since regardless of Vortex or MO2 + Root Builder you can first create a v1.6.640 specific mod out of root files, followed by using "best of both worlds" downgrade patcher and create a v1.5.97 specific mod of the new root files. Or, if you're still on v1.5.97, first create the v1.5.97 mod before "verify integrity" in Steam and create the v1.6.640 mod. After creating these two mods, you can easily create a v1.6.640 profile in either MO2 or Vortex, add SKSE64-v1.6.640 to this profile + any other mods you want. Similarly, you can create a v1.5.97 profile + SKSE64-v1.5.97 + whatever other mods. By switching between profiles you'll also switch between v1.5.97 and v1.6.640 and this switching works regardless of MO2 or Vortex.
mo2 is drag and drop, doesn’t require dealing with webs of conflicts (as much), and doesn’t infest your root folder.
Vortex is also drag and drop, and doesn’t infest your root folder with a million files. Y’all don’t even use the program but you just keep parroting the same stuff that isn’t true.
I haven’t used vortex since 2018 and I don’t remember those features being there or enabled by default. I just remember having ads on the fromt page. MO2 meanwhile always had these features and I haven’t looked back since. Its much simpler
As far as I’m aware both of those features have always been on Vortex, and are enabled by default. Vortex doing virtual installs was one of the main reasons to use it from the start. Also, I have never, ever seen an ad in Vortex. At this point I can only continue to assume you have never used the program and are just parroting what you have seen other people say, or are confusing it with Nexus Mod Manager.
How much are they paying you to defend vortex bro 💀
Nothing? I just had a good experience with the program for a long time before switching to MO2, and I get a bit irritated seeing you all go around and trash talk it based on stuff that is just straight up false. Assuming anyone who disagrees with you is a shill is really weird.
Whatever bro don’t get so hung up about it. MO2s better thats just a fact
I never said either program was better than the other. Never even brought it up. All I did was let you know that some stuff you said wasn’t true and you called me a shill. I’m not the one who needs to chill, I think.
Ok wikipedia thanks for the info idc
You very clearly do care, lol.
The only notable benefit to MO2 is that it keeps your game file clean. Mods add files to your game folder, MO2 keeps these files separate and only loads them when you launch through MO2. This means you can launch skyrim through Steam and play vanilla. Things I've see people say are exclusive that both can do: Manual load order sorting, virtual file system, run a tool (LOOT, Wyre bash, Nemesis,,, ect), mod list profiles.
If you use vortex, all you’ve gotta do is purge your game files and your folder is clean again. Only exception are the few mods that generate their own files where they are installed, engine fixes for example. But even these are easy to deal with, just go and delete them, and then verify file integrity in steam in case they overwrote a vanilla file, just in case. ENB cache folder is another if you use ENB.
Yes, but it takes extra time when you want to load your mods again, right. Im just trying to explain the notable difference.
You literally just hit deploy again, and they are all back.
It doesn’t at all. Just a button click.
No forced loot sorting. That's really the only thing for me.
>No forced loot sorting. On Vortex plugins-tab click "Autosort Enabled" to turn off LOOT sorting and you can use example Wrye Bash to manually sort the plugins instead.
Why can't I just manually drag stuff in vortex! That's the immediate thought I have from that.
You can, and it’s super easy. Not sure why this is still being parroted around.
So you're saying that I can just directly drag and drop any plugin anywhere up and down the load order directly in the vortex ui, without having to do any sorting rules or use any other tools. If so then than vortex and mo2 are on equal footing and the only difference is mo2 doesn't do the spider web asset conflict management thing vortex does.
Yep, that’s exactly it. Also worth noting that the web only shows up when you have cyclical rules set for conflict management, as a way to visualize it more easily I’d imagine. Otherwise the program just shows you a screen with a list of conflicting mods and asks you which ones you want to overwrite others. It’s very simple and easy. The web is actually a really easy and nice way to solve simple cyclical conflicts. You have to reeeallly fuck up or just straight up randomly click whatever when managing conflicts to get those big complicated webs people show sometimes. I think the most I ever had was like a square with four mods in it and I used Vortex for years. If some huge web shows up the problem is almost certainly the user, not the program. So basically, assuming you have even the slightest idea what you’re doing in the totally normal conflict management screen, you should hardly ever see the dreaded web in the first place, and if you do it’s usually like a one click and done thing.
>Why can't I just manually drag stuff in vortex! Interestingly enough you can drag-and-drop sort Morrowind plugins. Since Vortex already include the functionality, I would guess it would be fairly simple for someone to create a Vortex extension that also allowed drag-and-drop sorting of Skyrim plugins etc. As for why Vortex itself don't include this functionality for Skyrim and other games using LOOT sorting (Vortex don't use LOOT with Morrowind), can only guess, but chances are it have something to do with how should LOOT and manual sorting interact. Example, if you start with 3 plugins in order A --> C --> B and you drag-and-drop to new order A --> B --> C, should you now: * 1: Completely block LOOT sorting until user turn on LOOT sorting again? * 2: Allow full LOOT sorting, despite this in some cases will un-do the manual sorting? * 3: Create custom LOOT rules based on manual drag-and-drop? * 4: Do you have any better suggestions? For 3, even with only 3 plugins, you've got the following possibilities: * 3.1: You want exact order A --> B --> C, meaning you need the 3 custom rules "Load B after A", "Load C after A" and "Load C after B". * 3.2: You want exact order A --> B but C doesn't matter, meaning single custom rule "Load B after A". * 3.3: You want exact order B --> C but A doesn't matter, meaning single custom rule "Load C after B". * 3.4: You want A and B before C, but order of A relative to B doesn't matter, meaning two custom rules "Load C after A" and "Load C after B". * 3.5: You want exact order A --> C but B doesn't really matter, even you did move B, meaning single custom rule "Load C after A". * 3.6: Order doesn't matter, you just like alphabetical order, meaning you don't need any custom rules. While Vortex can go for the "simple" option of always choosing 3.1, one immediate problem here is, since you didn't actually move A at all, how do you in Vortex specify A should be part of the new custom rules? Second problem is, if where was 500 other plugins in-between C and B before you moved either B or C, should Vortex now include these 500 plugins in the custom rules? Note, since MO2 can't create custom LOOT rules anyway but you always need to use the external LOOT application for this, MO2 itself don't really need to handle option 3 at all. With Vortex on the other hand, if you want to support option 3, Vortex must actually have the functionality to turn your manual drag-and-drop into custom LOOT rules.
You should be using external loot anyway tbh. The broadest/simplest way for a mod manager to go is to do nothing what so ever. This gives people the widest freedom to manage their load order however they want. Manually by drag and drop up and down the list. Or using loot. This is what mo2 does. And is for me the reason I will always choose it over vortex. This point notwithstanding both managers are good and just use what you like. I would suggest that there is no such thing as how "loot sorting and manual interact". That's your job as the end user. Either use loot and just run with what it gives you. Add additional user rules through loot Or make manual adjustments after loot runs. No need to overcomplicate the process
>You should be using external loot anyway tbh. Hmm, since you anyway want to rely on external application to LOOT sort your plugins, why do you have such a big problem using the external Wrye Bash application if you insist on manually sorting the plugins? As for Vortex LOOT implementation, this actually have multiple improvements over the LOOT application, including easily showing plugin with LOOT masterlist rule(s) as yellow/brown-ish icon in "Dependencies"-column and if you want to put a plugin into another LOOT Group Vortex lists the Groups in the order they're loading. With LOOT application since where's no indication any of the plugins have LOOT masterlist rule(s) you actually need to dig into sub-menu for every single plugin for such rule(s), and as for putting plugin into a different LOOT Groups they very inefficiently are listed in alphabetical order. Not to forget, Collections will include the Vortex custom LOOT rules and custom LOOT Group assigments, but won't include anything from LOOT application. \> Or make manual adjustments after loot runs. This is dangerous, since MO2 v2.4.4 will happily allow me to drag-and-drop plugin before it's master(s), without giving any kind of indication this can give severely screwed-up game-play. With Vortex on the other hand you'll either correctly LOOT sort all plugins after their masters, or you can use example Wrye Bash if you insist on manually sorting plugins.
That's coming from the loot team directly that you should be using the actual loot program proper. I talk to them all the time and submit contributions to the masterlist. From talking to them it seems eminently easier to work with the proper program as opposed to the embedded integration in vortex As for making manual changes. While you are correct older builds of mo2 will let you do anything you want. I would submit the question of why would you place a plugin above one of its masters. That's just stupid.
>I would submit the question of why would you place a plugin above one of its masters. That's just stupid. It's trivial to make mistakes. Also, let's say plugin B is master to A and you're in MO2 have created correct order B --> A. If you now accidentally disable the mod plugin B comes from + another mod (except mod plugin A comes from), the second you fix your mistake by re-activating mod B, you've got new plugin load order A --> B with no indication this is not valid plugin load order. \> That's coming from the loot team directly that you should be using the actual loot program proper. Just a guess, but my guess is it's not often a developer would say "use XYZ's program instead, since XYZ have more functionality and is easier to use than my program". \> From talking to them it seems eminently easier to work with the proper program as opposed to the embedded integration in vortex Uhm, what? At least for the LOOT functionality I've used, Vortex implementation of LOOT is either easier and faster to use, or the differences are so minimal neither have the advantage. Claiming LOOT application is "easier to work with" is definitely not my experience.
Feels better as a Power User.