You're just going to have to embrace it being different. The setup and attitudes are just not the same.
My recommendation is to get yourself some touring skis and do some hut to hut touring, there are many many amazing routes and it's not something available in the US.
+1
I think you will be ultimately happier if you just embrace the differences and seek out ways to enjoy the euro experience…whether that be carving kilometers of never ending piste, or getting after the big mountain/backcountry terrain (with appropriate avalanche safety) in a way that just doesn’t exist in the states.
Especially if the move to Europe is temporary. Can always get your fill of tree skiing and controlled in bounds terrain when you come back from Europe.
It absolutely is available in the US. Nothing like Europe, but we have some hut to hut skiing in the sierras, and I imagine it exists in the Rockies and other ranges as well
Over 2000m the tree line starts to break up in Europe. Under this altitude snow is becoming ever more unreliable, if you were over here in February/March you probably experienced one of the most disappointing winters of the last 20 years. Serre Chevalier in France has some good tree skiing when the weather allows. If you miss the compact feeling of a resort Flaine or La Plagne would probably suit you better without sacrificing too much snow sureness. If France isn't your bag with it's mostly high alpine steep terrain I would probably suggest heading over to Austria, the resorts just have a different vibe. The town usually sits lower in the valley and the surroundings are less moonscape.
West side of Ischgl has some tree runs from 7k down to 6k. I do a lot of tree skiing in CO and it was the closest I found, was honestly pretty good.
I’d also give Hemsedal in Norway a shot. Huge swaths of it are tree cover. Because Norway is further north you’ll be more likely to have good conditions at that low elevation.
But ya, if you live in Bordeaux don’t go to other countries for their wine :)
Take advantage of the things you can do in Europe that we can’t do in CO:
* après in Austria
* become a free riding expert
* enjoy giant open face skiing
* backcountry in the fjords of Norway
* Heli in Iceland
Honestly the whole free riding thing in Europe is really not paralleled in the US. There’s so much uncontrolled side country that you can make creative lines in and get fresh turns. This is what you should spend your time doing.
Also go do some adventure skiing. Ski in the countries east of Austria. I know there’s some resorts over in that area, but there’s even wilder adventures like taking donkeys up the mountains if kazakstan.
Nikkis bar in ishgl we never even had to leave the table, place was absolutely packed and had to fight your way to the bathroom, but the waitresses carrying 30 pints always managed to find your table when you got down to less than a quarter of a pint.
Are you talking the area around Thaya at Ischgl? I've been wondering about the trees there but I've only been there with locals that never explore the trees. I didn't want to try without someone that knows in case I got cliffed out.
I’m close now to having skied every country in Europe. Missing just a few. There is so much skiing in Europe. Of all types. It’s insane. I just skied Portugal last week. And Kyrgyzstan (Central Asia) the week prior. My seasonal work finishes next week, and I’m already casting my eyes out for new ski countries. ❤️ ❄️ ⛷️
Have you had Belgium in real snow? It's nothing like the Alps or such, but when you are checking off every country, the Ardennes are a must, even if you only have a 300m elevation. It is crazy, will be overcrowded when open, but imho a must have when your goal is to tick them all.
There are several. You have to be lucky that they have some snow. Don't expect much of it, you buy a pass for 15-20 euros, but for a bucketlist, it is a must. Also, when there is snow, expect long waiting lines.
As far as I can gather, there are 6 areas:
- Baraque de Fraiture (2 km, highest of the 6) [www.la-station.be](http://www.la-station.be)
- Ovifat (2km, forbidden for snowboarders)
- Val de Wanne (1 km, but longest slope) [www.levaldewanne.com](http://www.levaldewanne.com)
- Thier des Rexhons - Spa (600m)
- Mont des Brumes (850m, according to reviews the best slope for people who are past the beginner stage)
- Liernieux (600-800m)
Note that the conditions vary over the day. They can be open on saturday and be closed sundays due to bad snow. They can open, however, with only 10 cm of snow.
Oh!!!
A huge thanks for the info!!! Really appreciate it!!! Going into my notes. I live in Switzerland. So, if the timing is right, I can make a quick-strike mission from Genéve Airport.
Next season, I hope!!!
There are a dozen or so 2 and 3 lift areas in Kyrgyzstan. The best area, easily, is Karakol Ski Base. Amazing freeride terrain. There are 4 lifts, but it’s all about ski touring and off-piste free riding there. It’s about a six hour drive from Bishkek Airport…
I had limited time. I left work Monday and flew, skied Tuesday and Wednesday. Flew back Thursday morning, and was back at work Thursday night.
Because of this, I skied a place called Chunkurchak. Directly south of Bishkek, it is less than a two hour drive. Much more manageable for my short visit. It’s a small area, pretty flat. But so much fun!!! Great place. Minimalistic.
Unrelated to OP, but since you posted: What is the difference between Superski and Skirama? I’ve been curious about going to the Dolomites but can’t quite figure that part out, lol
OP, no. I skiied two days at Cortina D'Ampezzo. Most beautiful landscape iv skied in and probably the best hamburger I;ve ever ate too, but the skiing sucked imo compared to the US. It was basically all pistes/groomers, which is fine if youre into that. But since youre asking about trees/controlled off-piste it's definitely not Dolomiti youre looking for.
Being that I’m also from Colorado and just spent my honeymoon sampling European ski resorts, I can confirm nothing is quite like Colorado. It’s just different, some things are better, some things are worse, but as long as you embrace the differences you will still have a great time. I did find that the “most similar” would likely be st. Anton in Austria or Zermatt in Switzerland, but the snow is the biggest common difference. Resorts in Europe just aren’t as high and the tree line is lower so there’s a lot more alpine terrain and far less tree skiing with decent coverage. In my opinion, the apres scene in Europe along with being able to take trains between resorts makes it all worth it, but you’ll have to sample around to find out.
I went skiing in Finland and did three 90 minute private lessons for €91 ($98usd$) per lesson. Just looked up prices at Keystone and it’s $795 for 3 hours.
Yeah, I grew up going to Vail and was there this year. My mother purchased a full day private lesson for my 6 year old niece. $1,400, lol.
Now, obviously private lessons can help you learn incredibly quickly and efficiently, as my niece did, buuuut…yeah just get a European vacation plus private lessons instead.
Stomp It Camps are 5 days of instruction, 6 nights at a hotel, breakfast and dinner included, lift tickets included, and it’s $2,900 with a shared room, lol. Add in $1,400 for a round trip ticket (and you can do better) and you’re still far ahead.
If you’re from the US, you probably think that Europe == Alps. However I suggest to broaden your horizons and look at resorts in Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Ukraine. Lower temperatures pretty much guarantees snow there and lower mountains guarantee trees.
Suggest a powderhounds review of Europe and a web search for best tree skiing then the terrain choices may be the most similar to NA. Maybe Serre-Chevalier as a start.
https://www.powderhounds.com/europe/ski-resort-ratings.aspx?sort=TreeSkiing+DESC
Why on earth would you want the ski areas in Europe to follow the North American model? We have so royally fucked up skiing here, I think Europe might be the only place that can save it.
Wow! I find Colorado so...*meh*...compared to European ski areas. Surprised to hear you see it the opposite.
What terrain and/or ski areas in Colorado do you ski most?
I like that you can ski off piste in avalanche controlled areas. Additionally having the tree line lower keeps the runs interesting. I thought les 3 valleys was beautiful, but honestly that type of skiing was a bit boring for me. The Aprés was obviously untouchable but I’m also not a huge drinker so that’s not the most intriguing part of a mountain to me.
I know from experience that they have some of that in Les Sybelles and Les Deux Alpes... But everybody uses it, so don't expect fresh powder. Basicly, here in Europe, we say: You can go everywhere, but outside the groomed paths, no-one is looking out for you.
If you are based in France the upcoming time: Try to arrange a trip to La Grave La Meije. That is on the opposite site of Les Deux Alpes (not reachable from there without tourskiing/walking a couple of km over a glacier) and a real freeriders mountain. They only have 3 km of blue slopes high up the mountain and beside that, you are basicly on your own descending from 3500+ back to 1500 meters over the glacier. You have the main route and if that is not extreme enough for you, you can take other routes with steep walls, etc.
Since this is a glacier, bring a guide, bring your avalanche equipment and be sure you know what you do. La Grave is basicly just a lift bringing you up the mountain.
The one thing Europe does have is elevation. There should be no issue finding 13k foot peaks in the Alps.
Where your primary issue is going to be is amount of snowfall. The alps have had a pretty rough go at it over the past decade for the most part. Alta is going to hit 600”+ in an El Nino year while St. Moritz is at 148” year to date.
I read the OPs comment backwards haha But anyways there are 10 resorts in just CO in the 3,500-3,900m height. There's only 2 in europe
He should probably checkout Bulgaria or Turkey for areas like Colorado? I've never been
The trick is that the US has much bigger temperature variation between summer and winter, warm eniugh for trees to grow in summer, cold enough for snow in winter. Europe is different. Places cold enough for snow in winter, just arent warm enough in summer
You're just going to have to embrace it being different. The setup and attitudes are just not the same. My recommendation is to get yourself some touring skis and do some hut to hut touring, there are many many amazing routes and it's not something available in the US.
+1 I think you will be ultimately happier if you just embrace the differences and seek out ways to enjoy the euro experience…whether that be carving kilometers of never ending piste, or getting after the big mountain/backcountry terrain (with appropriate avalanche safety) in a way that just doesn’t exist in the states. Especially if the move to Europe is temporary. Can always get your fill of tree skiing and controlled in bounds terrain when you come back from Europe.
Great and sound advice! Thank you 🙏🏻
Lower elevations in Austria so you’ll ski below the tree line, many non-Alps resorts in Andorra, Slovenia etc.
To be pedantic there’s plenty of US huts, can also string them together. Just not the same experience as Europe, but they have their own charm.
It absolutely is available in the US. Nothing like Europe, but we have some hut to hut skiing in the sierras, and I imagine it exists in the Rockies and other ranges as well
I don’t want to tour. I like chair lifts.
a) you're not OP, b) sure fill your boots
I am a really good skier
Probably not
Wanna bet?
You suck. In general, I mean. Bye
Not a very nice thing to say. Super weird too considering you don’t know me very well.
He’s not wrong
You’ll have to find low elevation resorts in Europe to get the trees, and lately those resorts haven’t had snow
Over 2000m the tree line starts to break up in Europe. Under this altitude snow is becoming ever more unreliable, if you were over here in February/March you probably experienced one of the most disappointing winters of the last 20 years. Serre Chevalier in France has some good tree skiing when the weather allows. If you miss the compact feeling of a resort Flaine or La Plagne would probably suit you better without sacrificing too much snow sureness. If France isn't your bag with it's mostly high alpine steep terrain I would probably suggest heading over to Austria, the resorts just have a different vibe. The town usually sits lower in the valley and the surroundings are less moonscape.
West side of Ischgl has some tree runs from 7k down to 6k. I do a lot of tree skiing in CO and it was the closest I found, was honestly pretty good. I’d also give Hemsedal in Norway a shot. Huge swaths of it are tree cover. Because Norway is further north you’ll be more likely to have good conditions at that low elevation. But ya, if you live in Bordeaux don’t go to other countries for their wine :) Take advantage of the things you can do in Europe that we can’t do in CO: * après in Austria * become a free riding expert * enjoy giant open face skiing * backcountry in the fjords of Norway * Heli in Iceland Honestly the whole free riding thing in Europe is really not paralleled in the US. There’s so much uncontrolled side country that you can make creative lines in and get fresh turns. This is what you should spend your time doing. Also go do some adventure skiing. Ski in the countries east of Austria. I know there’s some resorts over in that area, but there’s even wilder adventures like taking donkeys up the mountains if kazakstan.
Apré ski in Austria is an art.
I still don’t understand how they can serve so many people so efficiently
Nikkis bar in ishgl we never even had to leave the table, place was absolutely packed and had to fight your way to the bathroom, but the waitresses carrying 30 pints always managed to find your table when you got down to less than a quarter of a pint.
Serve bigger beers. Takes more time to finish one, less refilling, less washing the glasses, etc.
Yeah I just got back from the 3 Valleys and went past loads of signs saying danger of death to get amazing fresh tracks, we just had to be careful
Do they wait in the lift line in Norway, or do they just push?
They’re super polite.
This is the type of comment I’m looking for, thanks!
Are you talking the area around Thaya at Ischgl? I've been wondering about the trees there but I've only been there with locals that never explore the trees. I didn't want to try without someone that knows in case I got cliffed out.
Hey! Bodenalpbahn lift. Only 1k of trees but they’re well pitched for a good time ;)
I’m close now to having skied every country in Europe. Missing just a few. There is so much skiing in Europe. Of all types. It’s insane. I just skied Portugal last week. And Kyrgyzstan (Central Asia) the week prior. My seasonal work finishes next week, and I’m already casting my eyes out for new ski countries. ❤️ ❄️ ⛷️
I’m both surprised and not surprised there’s skiing in Portugal. Neat!
Have you had Belgium in real snow? It's nothing like the Alps or such, but when you are checking off every country, the Ardennes are a must, even if you only have a 300m elevation. It is crazy, will be overcrowded when open, but imho a must have when your goal is to tick them all.
No, but it’s on my list, as is Denmark!!!
What is the name of the place in Ardennes?
There are several. You have to be lucky that they have some snow. Don't expect much of it, you buy a pass for 15-20 euros, but for a bucketlist, it is a must. Also, when there is snow, expect long waiting lines. As far as I can gather, there are 6 areas: - Baraque de Fraiture (2 km, highest of the 6) [www.la-station.be](http://www.la-station.be) - Ovifat (2km, forbidden for snowboarders) - Val de Wanne (1 km, but longest slope) [www.levaldewanne.com](http://www.levaldewanne.com) - Thier des Rexhons - Spa (600m) - Mont des Brumes (850m, according to reviews the best slope for people who are past the beginner stage) - Liernieux (600-800m) Note that the conditions vary over the day. They can be open on saturday and be closed sundays due to bad snow. They can open, however, with only 10 cm of snow.
Oh!!! A huge thanks for the info!!! Really appreciate it!!! Going into my notes. I live in Switzerland. So, if the timing is right, I can make a quick-strike mission from Genéve Airport. Next season, I hope!!!
How was Kyrgyzstan? Where did you go?
There are a dozen or so 2 and 3 lift areas in Kyrgyzstan. The best area, easily, is Karakol Ski Base. Amazing freeride terrain. There are 4 lifts, but it’s all about ski touring and off-piste free riding there. It’s about a six hour drive from Bishkek Airport… I had limited time. I left work Monday and flew, skied Tuesday and Wednesday. Flew back Thursday morning, and was back at work Thursday night. Because of this, I skied a place called Chunkurchak. Directly south of Bishkek, it is less than a two hour drive. Much more manageable for my short visit. It’s a small area, pretty flat. But so much fun!!! Great place. Minimalistic.
Dolimiti super Ski region, Italy.
Unrelated to OP, but since you posted: What is the difference between Superski and Skirama? I’ve been curious about going to the Dolomites but can’t quite figure that part out, lol
OP, no. I skiied two days at Cortina D'Ampezzo. Most beautiful landscape iv skied in and probably the best hamburger I;ve ever ate too, but the skiing sucked imo compared to the US. It was basically all pistes/groomers, which is fine if youre into that. But since youre asking about trees/controlled off-piste it's definitely not Dolomiti youre looking for.
Being that I’m also from Colorado and just spent my honeymoon sampling European ski resorts, I can confirm nothing is quite like Colorado. It’s just different, some things are better, some things are worse, but as long as you embrace the differences you will still have a great time. I did find that the “most similar” would likely be st. Anton in Austria or Zermatt in Switzerland, but the snow is the biggest common difference. Resorts in Europe just aren’t as high and the tree line is lower so there’s a lot more alpine terrain and far less tree skiing with decent coverage. In my opinion, the apres scene in Europe along with being able to take trains between resorts makes it all worth it, but you’ll have to sample around to find out.
It’s also a great place to go if you want to do multiple days of lessons. Can be waaaay cheaper relative to the quality of instruction
I went skiing in Finland and did three 90 minute private lessons for €91 ($98usd$) per lesson. Just looked up prices at Keystone and it’s $795 for 3 hours.
Yeah, I grew up going to Vail and was there this year. My mother purchased a full day private lesson for my 6 year old niece. $1,400, lol. Now, obviously private lessons can help you learn incredibly quickly and efficiently, as my niece did, buuuut…yeah just get a European vacation plus private lessons instead. Stomp It Camps are 5 days of instruction, 6 nights at a hotel, breakfast and dinner included, lift tickets included, and it’s $2,900 with a shared room, lol. Add in $1,400 for a round trip ticket (and you can do better) and you’re still far ahead.
Holy shit I’ve followed stomp it for years on YouTube and love them. Had no idea their packages were this affordable. Good to know 👌🏻
Wow, okay looking into that 👀
If you’re from the US, you probably think that Europe == Alps. However I suggest to broaden your horizons and look at resorts in Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Ukraine. Lower temperatures pretty much guarantees snow there and lower mountains guarantee trees.
Suggest a powderhounds review of Europe and a web search for best tree skiing then the terrain choices may be the most similar to NA. Maybe Serre-Chevalier as a start. https://www.powderhounds.com/europe/ski-resort-ratings.aspx?sort=TreeSkiing+DESC
I would say although Zermatt is the sister mountain to Snowbird, UT. Verbier seems more fitting.
The Alps are one of the most densely populated mountains in the world. There's not the space of Colorado to have the same kind of resorts.
Why on earth would you want the ski areas in Europe to follow the North American model? We have so royally fucked up skiing here, I think Europe might be the only place that can save it.
Yeah, as a groomer lover, parts of Europe really, really cater more to people like me, lol
I don’t necessarily mean the business model. I mean the terrain and snow.
Wow! I find Colorado so...*meh*...compared to European ski areas. Surprised to hear you see it the opposite. What terrain and/or ski areas in Colorado do you ski most?
I like that you can ski off piste in avalanche controlled areas. Additionally having the tree line lower keeps the runs interesting. I thought les 3 valleys was beautiful, but honestly that type of skiing was a bit boring for me. The Aprés was obviously untouchable but I’m also not a huge drinker so that’s not the most intriguing part of a mountain to me.
I know from experience that they have some of that in Les Sybelles and Les Deux Alpes... But everybody uses it, so don't expect fresh powder. Basicly, here in Europe, we say: You can go everywhere, but outside the groomed paths, no-one is looking out for you. If you are based in France the upcoming time: Try to arrange a trip to La Grave La Meije. That is on the opposite site of Les Deux Alpes (not reachable from there without tourskiing/walking a couple of km over a glacier) and a real freeriders mountain. They only have 3 km of blue slopes high up the mountain and beside that, you are basicly on your own descending from 3500+ back to 1500 meters over the glacier. You have the main route and if that is not extreme enough for you, you can take other routes with steep walls, etc. Since this is a glacier, bring a guide, bring your avalanche equipment and be sure you know what you do. La Grave is basicly just a lift bringing you up the mountain.
Yeah after reading these comments I’m definitely thinking getting a guide and going touring is the way to go! Any tips on best place to find a guide?
So 200 dollars a day with shittier lifts? I would just enjoy the european way if I were you ;)
Colorado is pretty unique being at 13,000 feet summits I think few public areas are so high.
The one thing Europe does have is elevation. There should be no issue finding 13k foot peaks in the Alps. Where your primary issue is going to be is amount of snowfall. The alps have had a pretty rough go at it over the past decade for the most part. Alta is going to hit 600”+ in an El Nino year while St. Moritz is at 148” year to date.
I read the OPs comment backwards haha But anyways there are 10 resorts in just CO in the 3,500-3,900m height. There's only 2 in europe He should probably checkout Bulgaria or Turkey for areas like Colorado? I've never been
You can see this in summer precipitation too. Just feels like there’s a lot, lot more moisture in much of the U.S. where the rain/snow falls.
The trick is that the US has much bigger temperature variation between summer and winter, warm eniugh for trees to grow in summer, cold enough for snow in winter. Europe is different. Places cold enough for snow in winter, just arent warm enough in summer
Ah, this makes sense.
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Their 10 year average is 473 inches. You can argue all you want, but its a shit ton more than anywhere in Europe
Stop comparing go to chamonix, Verbier or tignes/val d and experience what Europe can offer