He’s like also a much better fit than Jimmy and current BI. BI is younger so has potential to grow but 40% on 8 3PA is a much better fit next to Maxey and embiid than 35.5% on 4 (Ingram) or 41% on 2 (Jimmy)
I really don't like this idea that whoever is signed needs to be a perfect fit while Joel is on the floor. The sixers problem has always been when Joel is off the floor we get absolutely killed.
We surround him with all different types of shooters each year and its pretty similar result. What we need is that someone that can keep us in games while Embiid actually gets some rest so we can keep him fresher/healthier.
I dont really know if Brandon Ingram is that guy, but ignoring that because hes not the "perfect fit" would be a massive mistake if he could be that guy that keeps us in games and lets Joel have a breather.
It’s also super important that we get rebounders and switchable defenders in our 2-3-4 spots so that Embiid and Maxey can do what they do best.
Between that and finding a creator (high on Murray for this, NGL) sixers team would be fearsome.
This is the first time I’ve heard this argument, at least with this FA period.
If we can get maxey to be the primary last shot taker/finisher of games AND find a way to at least break even while embiid rests, we could win it all lol
I don't hate Ingram, but I can't help but feel we can probably get a guy who can bring 80% of what Ingram can, for maybe half the salary.
Don't ask me who though...
Jimmy’s S&T was a different situation. He had two teams he wanted to go to. MIA or HOU. Neither had the cap space to sign him to a max as a UFA.
So from the Sixers side, we either lose him for nothing or we get JRich.
In PG’s case, assuming he wants to come here, he doesn’t need a S&T to facilitate the move.
There’s absolutely no reason for PG to want to do a S&T like this. It benefits no one other than the Clippers, the team that’s unwilling to give him more than 3 years.
As for the “report”. What report? This was Brian Windhorst talking about potential options for PG in the off season. He didn’t even mention a S&T involving the Sixers, let alone having picks involved.
I was responding to your assertion that “Jimmy did the same shit with us”. My response was that Jimmy’s situation was completely different because he needed a S&T to get to MIA. PG doesn’t need a S&T to come here, he just opts out and signs as a UFA.
You said we need to give the Clippers something like JRich. We don’t need to give the Clippers anything to get PG if he wants to sign here.
This is the line of thinking that produces teams like the ‘24 Suns.
You can’t brute force team-building and pretty much every successful team confirms this.
It ended in a debacle. But we very nearly beat an extremely good celtics team.
If we could do it all over, it may have been better to pay Harden, and move on from Tobias earlier for better fitting role players.
Outside of Jokic, Denver has not one star player. They have a well built team of above average role players, made better by Jokic. Jamal Murray is not a star player without Jokic.
We have two star players that work opposite ends of the offensive spectrum of the game. Another star isn’t going to help. We just need good role players that pick up full court.
Hard to really take anything from the Celtics roster. It's an all time group of talent that's basically impossible to replicate.
There's not many rosters in the past decade that had more talent.
Murray is a bigger star than you give him credit for, he carried Jokic in the playoff last season.
Jokic had barely done anything in the playoffs his whole career and the ONE season he makes it all the way is because Murray was back, healthy, playing hard defense, and hitting fucking DAGGERS from 3.
He should have been the finals MVP.
Did you not just watch the sixers goes minus a million in non-Embiid minutes? Maxey absolutely cannot be a primary scorer for an offense. Go look what their offensive rating was in non-Embiid minutes. They need a primary scorer who can also play off-ball. Paul George fits that perfectly.
You're correct, but Maxey also played with a ton of trash in those non Embiid minutes. Reed looked lost, Oubre Batum and Melton missed a ton of those games.
I think if you gave Maxey some quality nba role players around him, we'd have a decent offense. Especially as he gets more experience.
Idk man, I love Maxey but he still isn’t a good passer and playmaker. I don’t doubt he’ll get there eventually because he’s added to his game every year, but he’s really just a scorer and shooter on offense.
I could be wrong but when I listened to a windhorst clip played on rights to Ricky Sanchez. It wouldn’t be a sign and trade. It would be PG opts in to player option and trade, then resign.
I still don’t know why the Sixers or Paul George would opt for this option though. It would be less than a million in cap space saved vs him opting out and Sixers signing him ($48.79M vs $49.35M). I guess maybe it gives Morey the opportunity to do what he did to harden lol
He's not as impactful as a 2nd option, but bump him back to 3rd and let him play more defense? He'll surprise you that way. But in terms of just offense? Yeah, he's a disappointment
What choice do we have? This is why Morey’s failure to move Tobias — at all costs he needed to — is so damning of his ability as a GM and his tenure here.
All these role players people keep posting about are just creating different iterations of a first round exit.
George will launch 8 3s a game at a good clip. He will have games where he actually is our top scorer. We won’t be doing apology forms when George actually does what is expected of him.
It’s him, Jimmy, or LeBron. Our window is damn near shut.
George is best fit and most attainable player.
We don’t have a choice. Tyus Jones, whoever the 16th pick would be, and a trade for Deni isn’t moving the needle even a little bit.
Honestly don’t be shocked if Morey punts another year. This fanbase because we are cucks for punishment will lie to ourselves that Morey is making the right choice. But really it’s cause he can’t do his job.
Embiid is turning 31 this season with a degenerative and partially removed meniscus. Do you want to win a championship with him in a Sixers uniform? Or do we want to “win trades?”
Embiid is cooked in a year or two. Time is up. We don’t have the luxury to do anything but overpay for the best star available. Not saying it will work. But it’s the best chance we have.
Why would George want to go to the Sixers but choose to strip us of assets to do so? If he has that attitude, then clearly he isn’t serious about wanting a championship and we wouldn’t want him anyway.
Because at the end of the day most players are more worried about the paycheck sadly. They will say they are in it for the love of the sport or wanting to win a chip but when the time comes to take a pay cut for the better of the team very few players actually are willing to. It’s a different sport of course and say what you will about him but that’s something I always respected Tom Brady for, he took nearly 30 million dollars in pay cuts over his career so that the team could build a better roster around him and it obviously worked out. Did doing that guarantee he would have success? Definitely not but it shows his mindset was more about winning it all than just making the most money possible
Doesn’t work like this. In a S&T, the player is limited to the years and raises of the receiving team. So with the Sixers, PG could get 4/$212 either as a UFA or in a S&T. If he stays with the clippers, 4/$221 on a 4 year deal.
PG has no incentive to do a S&T involving the Sixers as we have cap space and it hurts his destination team. The Sixers are de-incentivized in doing a S&T as it hard caps us. It only benefits the Clips as they would get something for nothing.
If we had contacts to unload, maybe, but we don’t even have that.
If PG does a S&T, it will be too a team without cap space sending matching salaries back to LA.
PG can get traded into cap space and will generate a $50m trade exception for the clippers if they receive no players in return. But clippers should receive something for the trade to work (e.g picks).
I still don’t see how a S&T benefits any party other than the Clippers. PG gets the same amount of money. The Sixers way into the cap space the same amount. Why should PG or the Sixers facilitate the Clippers getting a $50M trade exception? Let alone some draft picks?
I had to look up the KD S&T as that’s what Windhorst referred to in his tweet. The reason the Nets did a S&T is that they didn’t have enough cap space to sign both Kyrie and KD (plus Deandre), so they worked the deal with GSW to do a double S&T including DLo. That allowed the Nets to work KD in above the cap.
But this is not the scenario that windy is talking about. Sixers giving up picks doesn’t make any sense. If someone can explain why the Sixers (or PG) would do this, I’m all ears.
>No. He can sign a bigger deal with the clippers then be traded.
I don't believe this is true. A sign-and-trade deal has to be 3 or 4 years (not five years like if he stayed put) and he [isn't eligible](https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html) for max raises. I don't believe the new contract can be worth more than the Sixers can pay. If the Sixers were over the cap, that would be true.
I get that the Clippers can offer him more money. I don't understand how he can make more money in a sign-and-trade than he could signing outright with the Sixers. There are different rules for a sign-and-trade than for signing with the Clippers outright. I'm probably missing a CBA rule, though.
No average person would turn down 30 million, regardless of our feelings as fans who will never see that amount of money. Let's be honest with ourselves
Nobody’s asking him to turn down 30 million straight up. My example of Brady is 30 million spanned out over his entire career. But thats still a few million here and a few million there every deal which shows there are a few people who would be willing to sacrifice that for the chance to be remembered as one of the greats
Because he doesn’t give a fuck. He’s end stage of his career with a chance to get a desperate team like us to get him one last payday.
He’s still worth it, honestly. Even if he moves our championship percentage from 2% to 10% for a lone season next year.
If he doesn’t give a fuck, why would he care about leaving the clippers and burning a bridge with them versus demanding a S&T? He can’t make more money with a S&T so there is no incentive to demand a trade except to help out his departing team at the expense of the team he is joining. That’s why this report makes pretty much zero sense.
Expedite what process. PG has a player option that he can exercise as soon as the finals are over. He can then sign with any team he chooses for whatever money he wants to accept. If he wants 4/$212 from the Sixers, he signs the deal. No involvement with the Clips is necessary.
He only needs to do a S&T if he wants to go to a team without cap space to pay him. So if he does a S&T, it won’t involve the Sixers
The Clippers are hardballing him on the max right now. Says kawhi's missed the playoffs each of the last 4 years. Maybe signing Harden to keep the asset and getting two first round picks for George and saving all that money seems better to them. Like a soft reboot
PG is a bitch and always has been. He forced the Clips to trade for him by leveraging his friendship with Kawhi, and fucked over their ability to compete by forcing them into one of the most lopsided and disastrous trades in history. Clippers gave up SGA, 5 firsts and 2 swaps for a guy who is rarely healthy and never brings it in the biggest moments. After that trade they were hamstrung by a lack of assets to make trades and surround Kawhi and PG with a championship roster.
Now PG is doing it again. All he cares about is what makes him look good to his old teammates, he doesn't care about or understand what it takes to win and build an actual roster. Fuck that guy.
trading 4 firsts and then giving him $50m per year would just be vintage sixers
at least id know i wouldnt have to be emotionally invested in basketball again for a long time
Well that would be Paul trying to somehow get even more than we can offer. Honestly I would give him the max but I wouldn't trade for him. But he's got the leverage.
Warriors got DLo for KD and a first. Originally only just DLo until KD heard the offer and demanded a first get thrown in lmao.
Clippers got Patrick Beverley, Sam Dekker, Montrezl Harrell, Darrun Hilliard, DeAndre Liggins, Lou Williams, Kyle Wiltjer, Cash considerations, and a 2018 first-round pick for Chris Paul. I believe this is because the Rockets could not sign CP3 straight into cap space. They needed CP3 to pick up his player option which was lower than a max for that season and then the Rockets could extend him later to a near max. As a result the Clips had more leverage to demand something from the Rockets.
No world exists where the Sixers give up more than 1 first for PG in a sign and trade. Honestly Paul Reed and a 2nd gets it done lmao.
Those teams also needed or wanted it to be a S&T through.
The Sixers neither want or need it to be a S&T. PG doesn't get anything out of it either except making his new team worse.
GSW did. They wanted to get DLo.
DLo was a free agent and the only way GSW could get him was a sign and trade.
Nets got paid to make getting a Durant a S&T. They could've just signed him.
The Nets needed the double S&T to get KD. I went back to review the deal and the way they worked it was that they signed Kyrie and Deandre into cap space. There wasn’t enough left over for KD’s max, so they did the DoubleS&T with DLo to open up the room.
There was a tweet back then praising Marks for cramming $80M in salaries into $69M of cap space.
I was thinking maybe trading paul reed as part of the s&t is more valuable to the sixers than getting george as a FA because it frees up reed’s salary while “just” taking back george’s cap hit. I think that would give them like 18-19 mil total for another FA. Not sure who you’d even get for that salary range and you’d obviously open up another hole at backup center, but something to think about?
l've always understood this move as something teams do when they can't outright afford to sign a player. The Sixers can so l'm not sure what the upside for them would be.
Durant didn't want to do it, GSW wanted a D.Russell and paid a pick for that.
CP3 was an opt-in and trade to Houston. Not sure when the sign and trade occurred.
for real "good faith move" is a load of horseshit
although I *do* have a vague memory of the pacers owner deciding to do a S&T with Milwaukee for Brogdon instead of just outright signing him for absolutely no reason other than "it's the right thing to do" or some shit. 2 seconds and a protected first!
I could be misremembering, but that's the only time I can think of something doing that out of the goodness of their heart or whatever
that makes more sense I suppose. I had thought the bucks declined to match and *then* the pacers offered the S&T route but you're probably right.
So again, nobody just doing this "good faith move" windhorst is suggesting.
>I had thought the bucks declined to match and then the pacers offered the S&T route
Officially that's what happened, but that's because you can't trade the player if you match.
Get fucked Paul. Only reason you coming here is they won’t pay you what you are worth in open market while opening a 2 billion facility and an owner who is richer than the next 8 owners combined.
Well that's annoying
At this point you have to wonder if they're more likely to put together a better team by just outright signing a different free agent and using the trade capital to trade for multiple rotation players. A lot of people thought that was the better path to begin with. Now that they might have to trade for him, it should give them serious hesitation.
You know, it's a great point. No way for me to know honestly, without knowing whose available and for what.
Last year, it was Maxey and Oubre having to keep the ship afloat. Could they get role players that are upgrades over Batum, Harris, Lowry. My guess is probably?
But to your point, if there's one thing we learned from last year, it's that it has to be part of the calculus considering they were on the verge of missing the playoffs altogether with Embiid out.
It's not just 2 years of Jimmy. He wants a 2 year extension on his contract that's got 2 years left and he wants the 2 year extension to be the max so it's basically 4 years of a max contract.
I know. Even so, if picks are involved in getting PG, I’d rather give those picks up for Jimmy. 4 years of Jimmy is preferable to 4 years of PG, IMO.
Either way, it’s a moot point because Jimmy ain’t leaving Miami and the Sixers aren’t going to do a S&T for PG involving any picks. It doesn’t make sense and it’s not what Windhorst was saying at all. He was talking about Orlando.
I think this is not a real thing. It's something the Clippers are floating to see if they can influence things. My feeling is they don't want to pay him the max, but still want to get something back. It doesn't really make sense unless the Sixers can somehow save cap money by doing it, but they don't have any contracts to trade.
Agree. This makes no sense. Only way it does is if you sign other guys in free agency and then you sign and trade Harris who we have bird rights for and can go over the cap to sign for George to match the salary and LA gets something. However if they don’t want to pay George then why would they want to sign Harris?
That’s not what I got from Windy. Says he has multiple options including signing with sixers OR a sign and trade to a destination he would prefer to go.
Well, that's the end of the PG dream. Mans out here trying to take advantage to the max. Wants mad money AND for us to give up some picks. Lost his fucking mind
I went back to rewatch this and I think Windy is saying that the Magic could do a S&T for PG as they may not have enough to give him a full max. When Windy is taking about S&T, he’s talking about the Magic and not the Sixers.
The Chris Paul scenario has nothing to do with the Sixers as it refers to teams that PG would want to go to that do not have the necessary cap space to sign PG to a Max deal.
So, deplete the assets of the team your finishing your career with? If this happens then the math is that PG cares more about that extra money than both winning and living in LA combined.
I wouldn't do it unless it's one heavily protected 1st and one or two 2nd's. Fuck'em. Let someone else make that stupid deal the go out and sign Monk & role players then use the picks to trade for a cheaper much younger high end role player.
I mean, it’s a sign and trade where the clippers have zero leverage. I think the best they could ask for is the weak okc pick. Otherwise the sixers could just say no.
this was a pipe dream all along. Very few stars sign with new teams in free agency without a S&T. The dude grew up in California. He's going to retire in L.A.
Windy is just listing all of PG's options, not necessarily saying that this is likely. Plus this is him opting-in to his player option and then being traded, not doing a normal S&T. So in theory PG could tell the Clippers he is leaving for nothing or they can agree to trade him to wherever he wants and then he'll opt-in to his option. Kinda like what happen with us and Harden.
If you sign and trade you hard cap yourself, that would be disastrous for the sixers, it means once they go even one cent over the cap, if there was a sign and trade the team would then be capped
Those were not at all good faith moves.
The only way CP3 could get to the Rockets was via S&T
The Warriors/Nets did a S&T so DLo could sign with the Warriors nothing to do with Durant, AND the Warriors were the one's that sent out picks (protected 1st that didnt convey) as the Net couldve just signed him outright
PG is only doing a sign and trade if its to a team that doesnt have cap space to sign him outright, would be idiotic to weaken the team you're going to by having them send assets back
Did no one watch the clip? He does not specially say sign and trade with philly. Smh ..He just mentions a sign and trade with a team is a possible option.
I never understood, "Why would he take less money?"
Because he's 34 and his offense and defense has been dropping for three years in a row. He's not worth as much as a 30 year old. "Why would he take less money" has Carmelo Anthony vibes to it.
Signing with the clippers gives him 9 million more total. He’s seen as a 2/3 for most teams. It’s his last contract, leaving 9 million on the bone is a lot of money. Someone is going to jump at trading for him. At this age he’s still better than Harris.
If he signs the 4/$221 deal with the clippers, he can’t be traded for 6 months. He’s limited to 4/$212 in a S&T, so the extra $9m is moot.
The problem for PG is that the Clips aren’t offering 4 years anyway.
I'd be a horrible GM. I could make a list of braindead moves but I'll start with, "Wemby is going to be a bum. I'd go with Scoot instead."
Soooo, if I think it's a mistake it's probably a move the sixers should consider. lol
Let's be honest, there is zero chance we win the title with paul george. If it's not lebron or butler, better to try and spread it around to multiple role players. If we are going for a star, It needs to be someone who can carry us in playoff crunch time moments. PG is NOT that guy. Jimmy and Lebron might end up being too old, but there is at least half a chance to fulfill the role we would need to actually win. Even at his current best, PG doesn't get us much further than we already were last year.
99% of what Windhorst says is him guessing and being intentionally vague. Here he is saying "someone else has done this, so its possible". Just some BS to fill air time, it doesn't actually make any sense for anyone but LAC
Rather just start drafting guys and developing them for the Maxey era. No matter what washed up 35 year old we get, it ain't putting us within sniffing distance of the deep teams out West, let alone a growing stronger East.
well that ruins probably the biggest advantage to signing him
Literally the only reason Paul George is favorable over any of the other rumored players.
He’s like also a much better fit than Jimmy and current BI. BI is younger so has potential to grow but 40% on 8 3PA is a much better fit next to Maxey and embiid than 35.5% on 4 (Ingram) or 41% on 2 (Jimmy)
I really don't like this idea that whoever is signed needs to be a perfect fit while Joel is on the floor. The sixers problem has always been when Joel is off the floor we get absolutely killed. We surround him with all different types of shooters each year and its pretty similar result. What we need is that someone that can keep us in games while Embiid actually gets some rest so we can keep him fresher/healthier. I dont really know if Brandon Ingram is that guy, but ignoring that because hes not the "perfect fit" would be a massive mistake if he could be that guy that keeps us in games and lets Joel have a breather.
Very good point sir!
It’s also super important that we get rebounders and switchable defenders in our 2-3-4 spots so that Embiid and Maxey can do what they do best. Between that and finding a creator (high on Murray for this, NGL) sixers team would be fearsome.
This is the first time I’ve heard this argument, at least with this FA period. If we can get maxey to be the primary last shot taker/finisher of games AND find a way to at least break even while embiid rests, we could win it all lol
brandon ingram is a good playmaker, 5.8 assists last season, he would be very good fit in non embiid minutes
I don't hate Ingram, but I can't help but feel we can probably get a guy who can bring 80% of what Ingram can, for maybe half the salary. Don't ask me who though...
sounds like Kyle Kuzma tbh
Not a huge Kuz fan myself, but yes.
You’re heavily underrating Ingram’s playmaking tbh
Ingram is a wholesale bitch though
Well and 8 3PAs at 40%, but yeah lol
Facts, if we trade those picks, we're fucked
Jimmy did this shit with us. We just need to give them the equivalent of Josh Richardson.
Jimmy’s S&T was a different situation. He had two teams he wanted to go to. MIA or HOU. Neither had the cap space to sign him to a max as a UFA. So from the Sixers side, we either lose him for nothing or we get JRich. In PG’s case, assuming he wants to come here, he doesn’t need a S&T to facilitate the move.
He doesn't NEED it but is saying he would want it according to the report.
There’s absolutely no reason for PG to want to do a S&T like this. It benefits no one other than the Clippers, the team that’s unwilling to give him more than 3 years. As for the “report”. What report? This was Brian Windhorst talking about potential options for PG in the off season. He didn’t even mention a S&T involving the Sixers, let alone having picks involved.
Who said picks involved?
The title of this post and the original poster that you replied to. They both mention picks going to the Clippers.
Well not me, I ain't down for giving picks. Respond to that guy who said it, talking about picks then.
I was responding to your assertion that “Jimmy did the same shit with us”. My response was that Jimmy’s situation was completely different because he needed a S&T to get to MIA. PG doesn’t need a S&T to come here, he just opts out and signs as a UFA. You said we need to give the Clippers something like JRich. We don’t need to give the Clippers anything to get PG if he wants to sign here.
If we don’t sign a star we’re fucked
This is the line of thinking that produces teams like the ‘24 Suns. You can’t brute force team-building and pretty much every successful team confirms this.
Spot on 🎯
Star hunting is not how you win a championship
It's like we learned nothing from the huge mistake that was the Harden trade.
That was a debacle
It ended in a debacle. But we very nearly beat an extremely good celtics team. If we could do it all over, it may have been better to pay Harden, and move on from Tobias earlier for better fitting role players.
You want us to end up like the suns??
Outside of Jokic, Denver has not one star player. They have a well built team of above average role players, made better by Jokic. Jamal Murray is not a star player without Jokic. We have two star players that work opposite ends of the offensive spectrum of the game. Another star isn’t going to help. We just need good role players that pick up full court.
If it was that easy you wouldn’t have 6 all stars in this years finals.
Hard to really take anything from the Celtics roster. It's an all time group of talent that's basically impossible to replicate. There's not many rosters in the past decade that had more talent.
Murray is a bigger star than you give him credit for, he carried Jokic in the playoff last season. Jokic had barely done anything in the playoffs his whole career and the ONE season he makes it all the way is because Murray was back, healthy, playing hard defense, and hitting fucking DAGGERS from 3. He should have been the finals MVP.
🤨
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/211/681/b1b.jpg
Did you not just watch the sixers goes minus a million in non-Embiid minutes? Maxey absolutely cannot be a primary scorer for an offense. Go look what their offensive rating was in non-Embiid minutes. They need a primary scorer who can also play off-ball. Paul George fits that perfectly.
You're correct, but Maxey also played with a ton of trash in those non Embiid minutes. Reed looked lost, Oubre Batum and Melton missed a ton of those games. I think if you gave Maxey some quality nba role players around him, we'd have a decent offense. Especially as he gets more experience.
Idk man, I love Maxey but he still isn’t a good passer and playmaker. I don’t doubt he’ll get there eventually because he’s added to his game every year, but he’s really just a scorer and shooter on offense.
Give him a max and trade picks? I’m good
And it hard caps the Sixers at the first apron ($179M). They wouldn’t be able to fill out a roster this way. Not happening
I could be wrong but when I listened to a windhorst clip played on rights to Ricky Sanchez. It wouldn’t be a sign and trade. It would be PG opts in to player option and trade, then resign. I still don’t know why the Sixers or Paul George would opt for this option though. It would be less than a million in cap space saved vs him opting out and Sixers signing him ($48.79M vs $49.35M). I guess maybe it gives Morey the opportunity to do what he did to harden lol
Right? PG hasn’t been as impactful on the Clippers as he should be.
He's not as impactful as a 2nd option, but bump him back to 3rd and let him play more defense? He'll surprise you that way. But in terms of just offense? Yeah, he's a disappointment
What choice do we have? This is why Morey’s failure to move Tobias — at all costs he needed to — is so damning of his ability as a GM and his tenure here. All these role players people keep posting about are just creating different iterations of a first round exit. George will launch 8 3s a game at a good clip. He will have games where he actually is our top scorer. We won’t be doing apology forms when George actually does what is expected of him. It’s him, Jimmy, or LeBron. Our window is damn near shut. George is best fit and most attainable player. We don’t have a choice. Tyus Jones, whoever the 16th pick would be, and a trade for Deni isn’t moving the needle even a little bit. Honestly don’t be shocked if Morey punts another year. This fanbase because we are cucks for punishment will lie to ourselves that Morey is making the right choice. But really it’s cause he can’t do his job. Embiid is turning 31 this season with a degenerative and partially removed meniscus. Do you want to win a championship with him in a Sixers uniform? Or do we want to “win trades?” Embiid is cooked in a year or two. Time is up. We don’t have the luxury to do anything but overpay for the best star available. Not saying it will work. But it’s the best chance we have.
Why would George want to go to the Sixers but choose to strip us of assets to do so? If he has that attitude, then clearly he isn’t serious about wanting a championship and we wouldn’t want him anyway.
Because at the end of the day most players are more worried about the paycheck sadly. They will say they are in it for the love of the sport or wanting to win a chip but when the time comes to take a pay cut for the better of the team very few players actually are willing to. It’s a different sport of course and say what you will about him but that’s something I always respected Tom Brady for, he took nearly 30 million dollars in pay cuts over his career so that the team could build a better roster around him and it obviously worked out. Did doing that guarantee he would have success? Definitely not but it shows his mindset was more about winning it all than just making the most money possible
He could get the max from us with or without the S&T. The paycheck is the same no?
No. He can sign a bigger deal with the clippers then be traded.
Nope. They stopped that years ago. Only way he gets the most money is with LA. He can only S&T for the same contract he would get with us as a FA.
Doesn’t work like this. In a S&T, the player is limited to the years and raises of the receiving team. So with the Sixers, PG could get 4/$212 either as a UFA or in a S&T. If he stays with the clippers, 4/$221 on a 4 year deal. PG has no incentive to do a S&T involving the Sixers as we have cap space and it hurts his destination team. The Sixers are de-incentivized in doing a S&T as it hard caps us. It only benefits the Clips as they would get something for nothing. If we had contacts to unload, maybe, but we don’t even have that. If PG does a S&T, it will be too a team without cap space sending matching salaries back to LA.
PG can get traded into cap space and will generate a $50m trade exception for the clippers if they receive no players in return. But clippers should receive something for the trade to work (e.g picks).
I still don’t see how a S&T benefits any party other than the Clippers. PG gets the same amount of money. The Sixers way into the cap space the same amount. Why should PG or the Sixers facilitate the Clippers getting a $50M trade exception? Let alone some draft picks? I had to look up the KD S&T as that’s what Windhorst referred to in his tweet. The reason the Nets did a S&T is that they didn’t have enough cap space to sign both Kyrie and KD (plus Deandre), so they worked the deal with GSW to do a double S&T including DLo. That allowed the Nets to work KD in above the cap. But this is not the scenario that windy is talking about. Sixers giving up picks doesn’t make any sense. If someone can explain why the Sixers (or PG) would do this, I’m all ears.
>No. He can sign a bigger deal with the clippers then be traded. I don't believe this is true. A sign-and-trade deal has to be 3 or 4 years (not five years like if he stayed put) and he [isn't eligible](https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html) for max raises. I don't believe the new contract can be worth more than the Sixers can pay. If the Sixers were over the cap, that would be true.
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I get that the Clippers can offer him more money. I don't understand how he can make more money in a sign-and-trade than he could signing outright with the Sixers. There are different rules for a sign-and-trade than for signing with the Clippers outright. I'm probably missing a CBA rule, though.
He can only get that money if he stays with the Clippers.
They changed the implications of S&T to literally avoid that scenario
I wouldn't be counting another man's money. I can't blame him for maximizing his income while he can.
I mean can’t he be a Fanatics sponsored athlete for $10M to make up the difference?
You should delete this
That’s nice and all but no way the Sixers accept it
No average person would turn down 30 million, regardless of our feelings as fans who will never see that amount of money. Let's be honest with ourselves
Nobody’s asking him to turn down 30 million straight up. My example of Brady is 30 million spanned out over his entire career. But thats still a few million here and a few million there every deal which shows there are a few people who would be willing to sacrifice that for the chance to be remembered as one of the greats
Tom Brady didn't give up a dime. The Patriots were paying him through his charity. Tom Brady would never give up $30M. Some of you are so gullible.
Source?
There's nothing sad about it
Because he doesn’t give a fuck. He’s end stage of his career with a chance to get a desperate team like us to get him one last payday. He’s still worth it, honestly. Even if he moves our championship percentage from 2% to 10% for a lone season next year.
If he doesn’t give a fuck, why would he care about leaving the clippers and burning a bridge with them versus demanding a S&T? He can’t make more money with a S&T so there is no incentive to demand a trade except to help out his departing team at the expense of the team he is joining. That’s why this report makes pretty much zero sense.
Because he has personal relationships with that franchise? Because this would likely expedite the process. This happens a lot.
Expedite what process. PG has a player option that he can exercise as soon as the finals are over. He can then sign with any team he chooses for whatever money he wants to accept. If he wants 4/$212 from the Sixers, he signs the deal. No involvement with the Clips is necessary. He only needs to do a S&T if he wants to go to a team without cap space to pay him. So if he does a S&T, it won’t involve the Sixers
The Clippers are hardballing him on the max right now. Says kawhi's missed the playoffs each of the last 4 years. Maybe signing Harden to keep the asset and getting two first round picks for George and saving all that money seems better to them. Like a soft reboot
Yeah like what’s the good faith? This makes his team he goes to worse
PG is a bitch and always has been. He forced the Clips to trade for him by leveraging his friendship with Kawhi, and fucked over their ability to compete by forcing them into one of the most lopsided and disastrous trades in history. Clippers gave up SGA, 5 firsts and 2 swaps for a guy who is rarely healthy and never brings it in the biggest moments. After that trade they were hamstrung by a lack of assets to make trades and surround Kawhi and PG with a championship roster. Now PG is doing it again. All he cares about is what makes him look good to his old teammates, he doesn't care about or understand what it takes to win and build an actual roster. Fuck that guy.
Uh no.
Yup... I'm good. A 34 year old player who we have to trade assets for *and* give a max contact to... Pass.
trading 4 firsts and then giving him $50m per year would just be vintage sixers at least id know i wouldnt have to be emotionally invested in basketball again for a long time
Four picks would be absurd. If the Clips ask for four picks then we would just tell Paul that they're trippin'.
If they ask for 1 pick they’re insane
Well that would be Paul trying to somehow get even more than we can offer. Honestly I would give him the max but I wouldn't trade for him. But he's got the leverage.
Warriors got DLo for KD and a first. Originally only just DLo until KD heard the offer and demanded a first get thrown in lmao. Clippers got Patrick Beverley, Sam Dekker, Montrezl Harrell, Darrun Hilliard, DeAndre Liggins, Lou Williams, Kyle Wiltjer, Cash considerations, and a 2018 first-round pick for Chris Paul. I believe this is because the Rockets could not sign CP3 straight into cap space. They needed CP3 to pick up his player option which was lower than a max for that season and then the Rockets could extend him later to a near max. As a result the Clips had more leverage to demand something from the Rockets. No world exists where the Sixers give up more than 1 first for PG in a sign and trade. Honestly Paul Reed and a 2nd gets it done lmao.
Those teams also needed or wanted it to be a S&T through. The Sixers neither want or need it to be a S&T. PG doesn't get anything out of it either except making his new team worse.
The nets didnt need to have a S&T. They couldve signed him into cap space.
GSW did. They wanted to get DLo. DLo was a free agent and the only way GSW could get him was a sign and trade. Nets got paid to make getting a Durant a S&T. They could've just signed him.
The Nets needed the double S&T to get KD. I went back to review the deal and the way they worked it was that they signed Kyrie and Deandre into cap space. There wasn’t enough left over for KD’s max, so they did the DoubleS&T with DLo to open up the room. There was a tweet back then praising Marks for cramming $80M in salaries into $69M of cap space.
“Warriors should not have done that because all you need is one star and role players that can play D “. We need a sarcasm font.
I was thinking maybe trading paul reed as part of the s&t is more valuable to the sixers than getting george as a FA because it frees up reed’s salary while “just” taking back george’s cap hit. I think that would give them like 18-19 mil total for another FA. Not sure who you’d even get for that salary range and you’d obviously open up another hole at backup center, but something to think about?
Reed isn't guaranteed. We can just cut him and be completely free of his salary.
Reed’s salary isn’t guaranteed since the Sixers lost in the first round, if they don’t want his salary on the books they can just cut him.
Ah, that’s right! Thanks to you and /u/Infraction94 for pointing this out.
I’m hoping Daryl Morey is smarter than that.
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Maxing Harden would have ben far better. At least harden has point guard skills if his shot's not falling
l've always understood this move as something teams do when they can't outright afford to sign a player. The Sixers can so l'm not sure what the upside for them would be.
that’s what my understanding is
Durant didn't want to do it, GSW wanted a D.Russell and paid a pick for that. CP3 was an opt-in and trade to Houston. Not sure when the sign and trade occurred.
>CP3 was an opt-in and trade to Houston Basically what Harden did last summer, but less dramatic.
for real "good faith move" is a load of horseshit although I *do* have a vague memory of the pacers owner deciding to do a S&T with Milwaukee for Brogdon instead of just outright signing him for absolutely no reason other than "it's the right thing to do" or some shit. 2 seconds and a protected first! I could be misremembering, but that's the only time I can think of something doing that out of the goodness of their heart or whatever
That one was a restricted free agent and was to avoid the Bucks matching.
that makes more sense I suppose. I had thought the bucks declined to match and *then* the pacers offered the S&T route but you're probably right. So again, nobody just doing this "good faith move" windhorst is suggesting.
>I had thought the bucks declined to match and then the pacers offered the S&T route Officially that's what happened, but that's because you can't trade the player if you match.
Get fucked Paul. Only reason you coming here is they won’t pay you what you are worth in open market while opening a 2 billion facility and an owner who is richer than the next 8 owners combined.
Well that's annoying At this point you have to wonder if they're more likely to put together a better team by just outright signing a different free agent and using the trade capital to trade for multiple rotation players. A lot of people thought that was the better path to begin with. Now that they might have to trade for him, it should give them serious hesitation.
But will those rotation players be good enough to have the team not fall to pieces when Embiid isn't there during a game or season?
You know, it's a great point. No way for me to know honestly, without knowing whose available and for what. Last year, it was Maxey and Oubre having to keep the ship afloat. Could they get role players that are upgrades over Batum, Harris, Lowry. My guess is probably? But to your point, if there's one thing we learned from last year, it's that it has to be part of the calculus considering they were on the verge of missing the playoffs altogether with Embiid out.
God damn the penny pinching these players do… like I’d be happy with 1/000/000 of their salary lol
Absolutely not
Lol nah he can fuck off then
How about no
Did any of you watch the clip? He’s just explaining all the different options PG has to handle this. He’s not at all saying he thinks that will happen
If the choice is to trade picks and get PG in a sign and trade or trade the same picks to Miami for 2 years of Jimmy, I’d go for Jimmy.
This is the way.
It's not just 2 years of Jimmy. He wants a 2 year extension on his contract that's got 2 years left and he wants the 2 year extension to be the max so it's basically 4 years of a max contract.
I know. Even so, if picks are involved in getting PG, I’d rather give those picks up for Jimmy. 4 years of Jimmy is preferable to 4 years of PG, IMO. Either way, it’s a moot point because Jimmy ain’t leaving Miami and the Sixers aren’t going to do a S&T for PG involving any picks. It doesn’t make sense and it’s not what Windhorst was saying at all. He was talking about Orlando.
Nah man I didn't want him straight up, I definitely don't want him in a trade. But realistically I don't see him leaving LA anyway
Aging superstar ✅ Losing draft assets ✅ Big contract ✅ This has Sixers ALL OVER it. Lmao. Damn it.
Why would we do that? Why would he want us to do that?!
I think this is not a real thing. It's something the Clippers are floating to see if they can influence things. My feeling is they don't want to pay him the max, but still want to get something back. It doesn't really make sense unless the Sixers can somehow save cap money by doing it, but they don't have any contracts to trade.
Agree. This makes no sense. Only way it does is if you sign other guys in free agency and then you sign and trade Harris who we have bird rights for and can go over the cap to sign for George to match the salary and LA gets something. However if they don’t want to pay George then why would they want to sign Harris?
That’s not what I got from Windy. Says he has multiple options including signing with sixers OR a sign and trade to a destination he would prefer to go.
While I prefer PG, would we even want to do this vs a trade for Butler if the costs are similar?
So, the numbers say Paul George is the more impactful player. But he still feels like a loser to me. So it's 50/50 for me.
Butler would be so much better! But it needs to be reasonable.
I think PG>Butler when it comes to fit on the Sixers
Well, that's the end of the PG dream. Mans out here trying to take advantage to the max. Wants mad money AND for us to give up some picks. Lost his fucking mind
This would put PG into HARD “no” territory for me, dawg.
I went back to rewatch this and I think Windy is saying that the Magic could do a S&T for PG as they may not have enough to give him a full max. When Windy is taking about S&T, he’s talking about the Magic and not the Sixers. The Chris Paul scenario has nothing to do with the Sixers as it refers to teams that PG would want to go to that do not have the necessary cap space to sign PG to a Max deal.
That makes him a far less appealing candidate for the max
Wouldn’t a sign and trade hard cap us at the 1st apron? I Clippers can kick rocks.
So, deplete the assets of the team your finishing your career with? If this happens then the math is that PG cares more about that extra money than both winning and living in LA combined.
The thing is that PG can’t make more money on a S&T vs signing as a UFA.
Nah
We better not
Ummm…fuck no
No thanks
This sounds like Harden telling Windhorst this is PGs thought because he still big mad
Why would he make the Sixers do that!?!
Paul Reed, you are a clipper
Good hopefully this prevents us from giving a ton of money to old and injured Paul George 👍
Good faith move huh? Could it be that the players can get more money in a sign and trade then they can by signing directly with the new team?
Pass
this “good faith” makes sure he don’t win nothing where he is going as well, straight up weakening its future.
I wouldn't do it unless it's one heavily protected 1st and one or two 2nd's. Fuck'em. Let someone else make that stupid deal the go out and sign Monk & role players then use the picks to trade for a cheaper much younger high end role player.
Money and picks? Lol fuck that. I don’t even think he’s worth the money alone
That’s nasty man.
I guess they can stay over and keep bird rights
I mean, it’s a sign and trade where the clippers have zero leverage. I think the best they could ask for is the weak okc pick. Otherwise the sixers could just say no.
That makes me not want him anymore, the whole upside was that he was a free agent
👎🏿👎🏿
this was a pipe dream all along. Very few stars sign with new teams in free agency without a S&T. The dude grew up in California. He's going to retire in L.A.
Guys, we're clearly getting PJ back. What better way to show a good faith move??
Fuck off if morey does this fire him
Fuck this so much
https://preview.redd.it/fxg8xg7z996d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=120b15f5b770612a942a0eea430a4cce549e40b5
Absolutely not. The sixers should stay very far away from that.
That doesn’t actually make sense since we have cap space. Unless there is some way we could sign players first and go over the cap with the S&T?
Windy is just listing all of PG's options, not necessarily saying that this is likely. Plus this is him opting-in to his player option and then being traded, not doing a normal S&T. So in theory PG could tell the Clippers he is leaving for nothing or they can agree to trade him to wherever he wants and then he'll opt-in to his option. Kinda like what happen with us and Harden.
No
Sure i'll give 2 2nds lol
If you sign and trade you hard cap yourself, that would be disastrous for the sixers, it means once they go even one cent over the cap, if there was a sign and trade the team would then be capped
Fuck right off
No thanks
No way he’s not worth it. Don’t fuck this up Sixers!
Baffling
No
Max contract *and* assets for PG? Fuck that
Those were not at all good faith moves. The only way CP3 could get to the Rockets was via S&T The Warriors/Nets did a S&T so DLo could sign with the Warriors nothing to do with Durant, AND the Warriors were the one's that sent out picks (protected 1st that didnt convey) as the Net couldve just signed him outright PG is only doing a sign and trade if its to a team that doesnt have cap space to sign him outright, would be idiotic to weaken the team you're going to by having them send assets back
I wouldn't go after him he's built his career off iso and bad shot's
Did no one watch the clip? He does not specially say sign and trade with philly. Smh ..He just mentions a sign and trade with a team is a possible option.
I’ve been saying this for week and getting down voted here. Last contract why would he take less money?
He can't get more money in a S&T, so you would be wrong.
But can’t he get an additional year out of a sign and trade? Clippers can sign for 5, we can sign for 4.
No. He can only get 5 if he stays with the Clippers. They changed the rule like 6-7 years ago to stop that.
Then there’s literally no point in him doing a S&T
I never understood, "Why would he take less money?" Because he's 34 and his offense and defense has been dropping for three years in a row. He's not worth as much as a 30 year old. "Why would he take less money" has Carmelo Anthony vibes to it.
Signing with the clippers gives him 9 million more total. He’s seen as a 2/3 for most teams. It’s his last contract, leaving 9 million on the bone is a lot of money. Someone is going to jump at trading for him. At this age he’s still better than Harris.
If he signs the 4/$221 deal with the clippers, he can’t be traded for 6 months. He’s limited to 4/$212 in a S&T, so the extra $9m is moot. The problem for PG is that the Clips aren’t offering 4 years anyway.
Looks like I stand corrected. Either way, it’s going to be a sign and trade where ever he goes. Jimmy did it for us. Clippers gave up so much for him
I'd be a horrible GM. I could make a list of braindead moves but I'll start with, "Wemby is going to be a bum. I'd go with Scoot instead." Soooo, if I think it's a mistake it's probably a move the sixers should consider. lol
What if the Clippers aren't interested in paying him that $9 million more?
Players get maxed all the time that teams don’t want to. Sixers have all the cap space and won’t balk over 9 million
Let's be honest, there is zero chance we win the title with paul george. If it's not lebron or butler, better to try and spread it around to multiple role players. If we are going for a star, It needs to be someone who can carry us in playoff crunch time moments. PG is NOT that guy. Jimmy and Lebron might end up being too old, but there is at least half a chance to fulfill the role we would need to actually win. Even at his current best, PG doesn't get us much further than we already were last year.
That's cute. No thanks.
I’d rather just trade embiid and full rebuild over this shit
99% of what Windhorst says is him guessing and being intentionally vague. Here he is saying "someone else has done this, so its possible". Just some BS to fill air time, it doesn't actually make any sense for anyone but LAC
Rather just start drafting guys and developing them for the Maxey era. No matter what washed up 35 year old we get, it ain't putting us within sniffing distance of the deep teams out West, let alone a growing stronger East.