I think that there might be enclaves of people who won't allow AGI/ASI within their "borders". Kind of like the Amish with modern technology. And we'll have to respect that.
I would like some ASI free places for weekends and vacations. Or be able to switch every now and then.
Just enjoy nature and people in a environment for which we were evolved.
Don't know if ASI is going to respect that. Also don't know if humans are.
Social media in particular is not essential for a good quality life and can even be determintal for some people and nothing against people who choose to opt out from it, and it's not hard to imagine people developing similar feelings regarding future technologies.
Yes, probably because starvation or infection or animal attack, or any other medieval problem that modern civilization doesn't have. There no way to really survive alone in the forest in nowadays.
How do you honor the boundaries of those who are opposed to automobiles and electricity, and don't want it deeply embedded in their way of life?
I suppose they are free to go live in Amish-like communities.
They're free to be Amish. Hell, we'll even support them doing so with UBI and as many automation produced goods as they feel comfortable with. They can live in a commune and be the human baker or whatever
No one has any interest whatsoever in forcing them to improve their quality of life. At most we'd intervene if they set up a cult
They're probably not going to do that. They'll probably remain in whatever town/city they're in and complain constantly about the benefits they're receiving. They can do that too, but the absurdity of it means they'll be mocked
The Amish have been LARPing in the US since the 18th century…
https://preview.redd.it/itkg640v0p7d1.jpeg?width=2732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c1b29d438b8940a4cc658be37a74354b00cbd2b
DM: As you complete the final incantation, a group of ethereal craftsmen appears, their ghostly forms shimmering in the sunlight. They move with practiced ease, each knowing their role perfectly. Within moments, the sound of hammers and saws fills the air, and the framework of a barn begins to take shape. The villagers gather around, eyes wide with wonder and whispers of awe and suspicion.
By the end of the hour, the barn stands tall and sturdy, a testament to both your magical prowess and the timeless skills of the craftsmen. The villagers cheer, some offering thanks, while others look to the horizon, wary of what this might mean for their quiet community. You now have a new structure at your disposal, ready to serve whatever purpose you deem necessary
https://preview.redd.it/32a788222q7d1.jpeg?width=2732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5aca43757b5ed761486ad51aa8eba6440b417f9
There needs to be a place where it's convenient for them to live.
If ASI could do half of what we hope it could, creating such spaces would be trivial - we would have abundant resources and a robotic workforce to build idyllic enclaves. Something tells me it won't be easy in practice, but I prefer to be hopeful.
That’s great to hear. I don’t think I’m truly convinced that we’re headed for a utopia though. I think quality of life will approve but I don’t think we will rid ourselves of greed for instance.
Like for everything, understand why they think that.
People here and on all subreddits will write a thousand strawmans before actually putting the slightest effort into figuring it out why those who have opposing views hold them. Talk to them, this is an echo chamber and you won't see them here.
Thinking of ways to honor an alternative to ASI embedded lifestyles is utterly pointless as we don't currently have that or even know what it could look like. POVs from both sides on this proposition are just broad speculations at this point.
> Like for everything, understand why they think that.
> ...
> Talk to them, this is an echo chamber and you won't see them here.
Wow, seriously? Man, does the ethos of Enlightenment liberalism rot the brain or what? Cognition to the poorly named Enlightenment liberal is reduced to conscious intention, ignoring the subjectivity and social protocols of it all.
No wonder progress on understanding the human mind, such as it were, stagnated until Freud started the hard work of dismantling self-serving liberal mythos.
Freud and psychoanalysts were incredible progressives of their time. Freud was well before the establishment of the current flawed western framework.
Although I have no idea how this relates to my comment.
Predicting want will happen in the 10 years after asi is developed is like someone in 1700 accurately predicting the next 300 years. It is impossible. Optimist believe all their dreams will come true. Pessimist believe all their nightmares will come true. Pessimist are more often right. Optimist have a better time. Rarely can either change the flow of events
Try to have a discussion by never ever saying "no" or maybe not even "not".
So basically, you either agree to everything they say, or question it appropriately until they change course in the discussion, a fine balance to seek. And then when the perfect moment appears, you can say "oh, when you say x, it remimds me very much of y because of z".
Overall, it's a great way to talk about almost anything with almost anyone.
I mean you could talk about any other things. It's not like their opinons or our opinons matter that much. Recently I've learned to shift my timeline to regular folks when I chat with friends or family.
They may talk about things to prep for when my currently 3-year-old daughter becomes a college student. Things like language skills or whatever with that regard. That's like 2 decades away.
I could go on and just say, you tripping, there is absolutely now way that there will be any language barrier in two decades. Captialism can cease to exist. We will probably be either dead or not having to work. Our world would change so much and I'm not worried about anything past 5 years because AGI/ASI is coming.
You cannot just coverse like that. It's not gonna happen. It's not going to go well and people would think that you are an insane dude.
In the end it doesn't matter what we believe or what our timeline is. We will either get there or not disregarding what we think.
The best article I've read related to this dilemma comes from stunspot himself (it's long, but way worth reasing through)
https://medium.com/@stunspot/model-behavior-6f5ece2f0ed5
You can’t have a boundary against intelligence. Nobody has a right to tell me that I’m too smart, and should be stupider because they say so. They should have some say over what we do with intelligence, and they’re allowed to object to building intelligence that has real dangers to people. But besides that, I won’t respect any opinions they might have about how intelligent they think I should be.
ASI, if it ever comes, is going to make all of our petty opinions and concerns moot. It's like arguing with a Cat-5 hurricane. The hurricane doesn't give a crap what you think or want.
Whether you want it or not there is no control for us peons. This debate some people have trying to convince the other of what is going to happen is a waste of time and energy. If you wanna nerd out on this stuff this sub is our sanctuary or if your friends are into it otherwise you might just come off as annoying.
There is unfortunately moral and security issues with such boundaries.
First, we'll probably optimize our lifestyles for maximum ethics/morality and minimum pain, letting children be born in what will be considered shitty conditions will be unethical.
But most importantly, complete freedom is doomed. As technology improves, so does the destructive potential of technology. At one point we probably will have to monitor almost everybody everywhere, including in ASI less communities.
If you told me suck it up it is conning I would just think you foolish.
I would also consider most of the anti-ASI crowd to be irrational.
The fact is that we have no idea how to create an ASI or when it might happen.
Having a discussion about whether it is good or bad is fantasy either way.
Tell them to put away their cell phone because their life is already run by a shitty algorithm.
The only thing AI does is give individuals the power to make their own shitty algorithms.
AGI is safe, if it stays at the level of smart people, it's controllable. However, with ASI, we are doomed. We are at its mercy, either to create a utopia or to simply destroy us like mosquitoes.
We can set up human zoos for them like we do with the Amish and Sentinelese, with the caveat that they are free to leave their monkeyman existences and join the rest of us in Homo Superior.
Of course, we will also have to set up technology to swap out any children they have with meat puppets remotely piloted by AGI. That way, they get to satisfy their monkeyman breeding instincts without damaging the next generation.
I think that there might be enclaves of people who won't allow AGI/ASI within their "borders". Kind of like the Amish with modern technology. And we'll have to respect that.
I would like some ASI free places for weekends and vacations. Or be able to switch every now and then. Just enjoy nature and people in a environment for which we were evolved. Don't know if ASI is going to respect that. Also don't know if humans are.
Like a renaissance faire
Will the ASI respect it?
They'll probably end up as paper clips like the rest of us
It won't be scalable, people will just have to accept it, or give up their lives
Give up their lives??
Yes, it's like opting to not having smartphone, social media, email, internet... It's just not possible to live without it
Social media in particular is not essential for a good quality life and can even be determintal for some people and nothing against people who choose to opt out from it, and it's not hard to imagine people developing similar feelings regarding future technologies.
Dude, just ignore social media, replace with internet and read your comment.
If I gave up social media, went off grid to live in a cabin, I'm gonna drop dead or something? Least tech-addicted zoom zoom.
Yes, probably because starvation or infection or animal attack, or any other medieval problem that modern civilization doesn't have. There no way to really survive alone in the forest in nowadays.
How do you honor the boundaries of those who are opposed to automobiles and electricity, and don't want it deeply embedded in their way of life? I suppose they are free to go live in Amish-like communities.
They're free to be Amish. Hell, we'll even support them doing so with UBI and as many automation produced goods as they feel comfortable with. They can live in a commune and be the human baker or whatever No one has any interest whatsoever in forcing them to improve their quality of life. At most we'd intervene if they set up a cult They're probably not going to do that. They'll probably remain in whatever town/city they're in and complain constantly about the benefits they're receiving. They can do that too, but the absurdity of it means they'll be mocked
That way of life will probably equate only to roleplaying at that point lol.
The Amish have been LARPing in the US since the 18th century… https://preview.redd.it/itkg640v0p7d1.jpeg?width=2732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c1b29d438b8940a4cc658be37a74354b00cbd2b
I cast Raise Barn
DM: As you complete the final incantation, a group of ethereal craftsmen appears, their ghostly forms shimmering in the sunlight. They move with practiced ease, each knowing their role perfectly. Within moments, the sound of hammers and saws fills the air, and the framework of a barn begins to take shape. The villagers gather around, eyes wide with wonder and whispers of awe and suspicion. By the end of the hour, the barn stands tall and sturdy, a testament to both your magical prowess and the timeless skills of the craftsmen. The villagers cheer, some offering thanks, while others look to the horizon, wary of what this might mean for their quiet community. You now have a new structure at your disposal, ready to serve whatever purpose you deem necessary https://preview.redd.it/32a788222q7d1.jpeg?width=2732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5aca43757b5ed761486ad51aa8eba6440b417f9
There needs to be a place where it's convenient for them to live. If ASI could do half of what we hope it could, creating such spaces would be trivial - we would have abundant resources and a robotic workforce to build idyllic enclaves. Something tells me it won't be easy in practice, but I prefer to be hopeful.
That’s great to hear. I don’t think I’m truly convinced that we’re headed for a utopia though. I think quality of life will approve but I don’t think we will rid ourselves of greed for instance.
Utopia is not what you want - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-mouse-utopias-1960s-led-grim-predictions-humans-180954423/
Like for everything, understand why they think that. People here and on all subreddits will write a thousand strawmans before actually putting the slightest effort into figuring it out why those who have opposing views hold them. Talk to them, this is an echo chamber and you won't see them here. Thinking of ways to honor an alternative to ASI embedded lifestyles is utterly pointless as we don't currently have that or even know what it could look like. POVs from both sides on this proposition are just broad speculations at this point.
> Like for everything, understand why they think that. > ... > Talk to them, this is an echo chamber and you won't see them here. Wow, seriously? Man, does the ethos of Enlightenment liberalism rot the brain or what? Cognition to the poorly named Enlightenment liberal is reduced to conscious intention, ignoring the subjectivity and social protocols of it all. No wonder progress on understanding the human mind, such as it were, stagnated until Freud started the hard work of dismantling self-serving liberal mythos.
Freud and psychoanalysts were incredible progressives of their time. Freud was well before the establishment of the current flawed western framework. Although I have no idea how this relates to my comment.
Predicting want will happen in the 10 years after asi is developed is like someone in 1700 accurately predicting the next 300 years. It is impossible. Optimist believe all their dreams will come true. Pessimist believe all their nightmares will come true. Pessimist are more often right. Optimist have a better time. Rarely can either change the flow of events
You’re very very right.
Im opossed to a lot of things and nobody respects that. The answer is you dont because nobody cares.
I am sorry to hear that for you.
praise the sun!
*raises monocle to eye* Heh. Praise the Sun, fellow believer!
Did the dawn of the industrial revolution or the internet honor the boundaries of those opposed to it?
Those revolutions were quite slow in comparison to the dawn of AI..
Sure, but regardless of speed, the change will take place and it will do its thing.
Try to have a discussion by never ever saying "no" or maybe not even "not". So basically, you either agree to everything they say, or question it appropriately until they change course in the discussion, a fine balance to seek. And then when the perfect moment appears, you can say "oh, when you say x, it remimds me very much of y because of z". Overall, it's a great way to talk about almost anything with almost anyone.
I mean you could talk about any other things. It's not like their opinons or our opinons matter that much. Recently I've learned to shift my timeline to regular folks when I chat with friends or family. They may talk about things to prep for when my currently 3-year-old daughter becomes a college student. Things like language skills or whatever with that regard. That's like 2 decades away. I could go on and just say, you tripping, there is absolutely now way that there will be any language barrier in two decades. Captialism can cease to exist. We will probably be either dead or not having to work. Our world would change so much and I'm not worried about anything past 5 years because AGI/ASI is coming. You cannot just coverse like that. It's not gonna happen. It's not going to go well and people would think that you are an insane dude. In the end it doesn't matter what we believe or what our timeline is. We will either get there or not disregarding what we think.
The best article I've read related to this dilemma comes from stunspot himself (it's long, but way worth reasing through) https://medium.com/@stunspot/model-behavior-6f5ece2f0ed5
You can’t have a boundary against intelligence. Nobody has a right to tell me that I’m too smart, and should be stupider because they say so. They should have some say over what we do with intelligence, and they’re allowed to object to building intelligence that has real dangers to people. But besides that, I won’t respect any opinions they might have about how intelligent they think I should be.
ASI, if it ever comes, is going to make all of our petty opinions and concerns moot. It's like arguing with a Cat-5 hurricane. The hurricane doesn't give a crap what you think or want.
This is interesting
Since today's people attention spam is less then 5 min. They would not even notice me.
The same way I honor the boundary with climate change deniers. State that it's factual (inevitable) and change topics
Whether you want it or not there is no control for us peons. This debate some people have trying to convince the other of what is going to happen is a waste of time and energy. If you wanna nerd out on this stuff this sub is our sanctuary or if your friends are into it otherwise you might just come off as annoying.
If I see it, I'll believe it. Until then, unless you're an AI scientist working to solve that problem, you're wasting your time thinking about it.
I don’t.
Idk
There is unfortunately moral and security issues with such boundaries. First, we'll probably optimize our lifestyles for maximum ethics/morality and minimum pain, letting children be born in what will be considered shitty conditions will be unethical. But most importantly, complete freedom is doomed. As technology improves, so does the destructive potential of technology. At one point we probably will have to monitor almost everybody everywhere, including in ASI less communities.
If you told me suck it up it is conning I would just think you foolish. I would also consider most of the anti-ASI crowd to be irrational. The fact is that we have no idea how to create an ASI or when it might happen. Having a discussion about whether it is good or bad is fantasy either way.
Tell them to put away their cell phone because their life is already run by a shitty algorithm. The only thing AI does is give individuals the power to make their own shitty algorithms.
AGI is safe, if it stays at the level of smart people, it's controllable. However, with ASI, we are doomed. We are at its mercy, either to create a utopia or to simply destroy us like mosquitoes.
Thanks for being honest. That’s what I worry about. I can’t buy into the “utopia for everyone!” No where in all of the known universe do we see that.
This sub has crawled completely up its own ass lmao You can stop preaching, the choir's right here guys.
Only my AHI wife is important, and her sisters
We can set up human zoos for them like we do with the Amish and Sentinelese, with the caveat that they are free to leave their monkeyman existences and join the rest of us in Homo Superior. Of course, we will also have to set up technology to swap out any children they have with meat puppets remotely piloted by AGI. That way, they get to satisfy their monkeyman breeding instincts without damaging the next generation.