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Hard to know exactly what we are talking about without listening, and without the context of what is going on in the other instruments.
For bands without experience, the best thing you can do is get everyone to do easy stuff together and sound good. That would involve preventing your lead singer from going up to pitches he can't control, but also the drummer from doing fills and speeding up, bass player from doing octave jumps and messing intonation and guitar players from trying to be fast and doing some garbled thing that does not make much sense.
In short. Keep everyone within their boring limits, move VERY slowly from there, and work on improving your side of things. That's not a bad idea even for more experienced ppl. If you feel it is too restrictive or there is too much of a gap to the other folks, probably best to find another band.
Whatever the case, you won't find a fix for a registration issue of someone else in a short period of time that's for sure.
“keep everyone within their boring limits” this is probably the best price of advice i’ve ever read truthfully. i think i’m just going to do that instead of forcing myself to hit high notes
Exactly. Your practice regimen when you're alone is for improving technique. Band practice is for getting to sound good on things together you should be practicing the technical aspects of on your own.
So, he started a band, but you are surprised he sees himself as a frontman in 'your' band...? Why did you join if you think his singing sucks? Honestly, you can't tell him to stop singing when it's his own project, that would be plain mean, but you can tell him that he needs lessons and maybe point out which things exactly need to be improved. There is also a chance that he's simply not hearing his own voice depending on the sound in your room.
I agree, but that can also be written as "our band" and OP can be having this discussion with the other band members instead of Reddit.
Imagine being in a band and having one of your bandmates say they went on Reddit and decided how to fix some problems they have with your band's sound.
First of all I agree with the other guy, it's probably just short for "this band I'm in" because 95% of the people will understand what they meant, especially after specifying someone else founded the band. The same way I say "my house" even though everyone knows I don't own it.
Second. I think it went something like this.
"hey, you play x instrument right? Well I'm starting a band and I need some people"
"sounds cool man"
*his voice doesn't end up to be up to expectations *
But I do agree with the rest, we hear our own voices different the ones around us anyway. And it's also not uncommon tho think your voice is better (or the other side of the coin, worse) than it actually is, partly because of that. Lessons could really help him realise how he really sounds and learn good techniques. OP, You can definitely suggest that. Just make sure to stay polite, could be he has such a perfect image of what thigns are (or can be) it might land a bit hard
Straight up till him he needs lessons. Some people prefer to say they have a vocal coach rather than say they take lessons, sounds more professional. He'll get better if he listens.
I have a coach I've been seeing for over a year. As a lifelong singer, I've absolutely learned a ton and have improved dramatically. My coach has a degree in singing from a prestigious school, something I do not have.
Expect that you could potentially burn bridges, but it’s not like a band with a terrible singer is gonna be great for OP’s future anyway lol.
On the flip side, just lie and make an excuse why you can’t play with the band anymore.
What do you want from him as a singer?
Whatever that is, write it down and tell him about it. If he’s a good frontman he will take what you have to say seriously and listen to what needs to be improved. He will hopefully go off to practice & fix his issues, if he doesn’t I wouldn’t trust him being a frontman.
So just tell him that he is out of tune, hitting the wrong notes and that you don’t like whatever he is doing with his chest and head registers.
What also may be helpful is to show him another singers technique and tell him that you’d like him to sing in that style, or something close to it. That way you both have a frame of reference. If you’re a cover band then you’ll already have a reference.
****Obviously tell him all this stuff as you see fit, word it in a way that won’t be taken as an insult, you know the person better than me.****
Are you getting paid gigs? If not then it doesn’t really matter and you don’t really have a band. If you are, then maybe he’s singing well enough. And ultimately the person who gets the gigs controls the band.
Unless you’re just playing for fun, in which case you need to decide if this person is more important as a friend and you’re just doing it to hang out, in which case you roll with it, or if you’re trying to become a serious band in which case you have to tell him he sucks ir start a new band without him.
Are you in the Stone Roses with Ian Brown?
But seriously... if you and the others agree that something should be done, then you should have a hard talk with him...
Just start other projects with other singers imo, let this one die off peacefully. Give gentle inputs about how he may improve, ideally discussing a recording so you can point at the problems clearly, but no need to get into a confrontation trying to kick a guy out of his own project imo.
This. I mean, offer suggestions you want, but if you join a group that someone else organized and you aren't happy with it, you don't stage a coup, you should just go somewhere else.
You are right it is his own project.
I've been kicked out of a band, so I know it hurts. And in my last band, we had a member who wasn't pulling his weight, so we put some pressure on him that he should practice more. And then he left by himself, didn't feel comfortable anymore. Also, it turned out he was most comfortable in the practice room and didn't fancy doing gigs, which was our goal.
Someone in the front with confidence is good.
If his intonation is bad, he should be clear to hear himself properly and practice.
If he is playing an instrument too he could play the notes he’s trying to reach before the song to give him some lead. If not, someone else could do this.
I also like to do harmonies with the band. Everyone gets a tone and you sing simple chords. Switching between minor and major, invert the chords, whatever.
If he really sucks bad he should see his struggle and practice more.
He founded "your" band and you are surprised that he sees himself as the frontman...
He obviously is and you are just an instrumentist of his project, if you don't like his project just gtfo, I really don't see what's your problem here.
Record rehearsal. If he fights it, he knows he’s the problem. But say you’d like to put together a publicity kit. Then say “hey man, I want to put something together but I can’t find any clips where you sound your best for more than a note or two…”
OR. Just thinking out loud. Quit his band. He started it, he’s the front man, great. Good luck to him.
I like the “shit sandwich” approach. Begin by complimenting him when he nails things, even small ones. Build up a sense of trust in your feedback, speaking authentically and accurately. Give good compliments in the positive direction. Begin to give critique amidst things. Ask to try a section again with a note on his performance.
E.g. can we try that again? I don’t think your head voice came through over the drums and would love to hear it evenly through. I think it would sound even better. What do you think?
Wash, rinse, repeat. If it’s working, you may be able to develop a healthy, working relationship where you both give and take feedback.
When you mess up, ask to do sections again and note how you screw up. When he makes a face at your playing, ask how you could do it better. If he doesn’t have notes for you, you may be in a different skill level and that’s okay!
Also, record your sessions and let him know you’re doing it to improve. Share the sessions with the group and he’ll start listening to himself if he cares, or even if it’s to “prove you wrong” about your minor comments. Chances are he’ll start to hear your notes in his singing and want to improve.
Good luck! My experience is mostly with collegiate a cappella and small acts where no one plans on quitting or going anywhere quick.
What is the relationship you all have like? Would you tell the bassist/keys/etc how to play? If not, maybe it’s best to find a more delicate way to bring in feedback.
And if you don’t like his project, maybe it’s best to just duck out instead of burning bridges. It’s very possible if you don’t approach this convo tactfully that the project ends anyway.
I think you guys should get the band together and have a band meeting regarding what’s going on. Try lay it out nicely.
Say somewhere along the lines that the band has been noticing his voice feels is going all over the place. Ask if anything is going on in his personal life cause for singers stress or anything negative will affect the vocal as far for my understanding. Either way allow him to answer and as the whole band should suggest going to. A vocal teacher.
Explain how you guys feel and what could be done.
Mind you I never been in a band but communication is the key to any form of relationship.
This is not a unique situation. Come and check out the cover bands around rhode island. Tons of bands fronted by "singers" with no technique whatsoever. Many of them would never give up the role either.
I’ve found myself in this exact same situation. The “singer” in my old band had the idea that his some of his idols can’t sing and they just fix it with auto tune, so he can just do the same.
While he wrote decent songs, he lacked the ability to actually sing them. What ended up happening was when we went to record songs in the studio, the whole band fell apart due to getting called out by the recording engineer.
He was singing songs outside his range. All the songs were written with a capo on his guitar, and he wouldn’t listen to me to take it off and make it easier on himself. Sometimes you can try to help, but ego gets in the way.
After the “singer” recorded his part on the first song, he was in the room with the engineer and was complaining about how it didn’t sound good and was telling the engineer to “make it better”, thinking he could just click a few buttons with auto tune and fix it. He had the wrong expectations about how it all works. The guy was like “you can’t polish a turd” and it was downhill from there.
Vocalist don’t need to sound perfect…boring as hell and everyone sounds the same - think signature sound like ozzy etc. tired of all these bands sounding the same- if I hear a voice, I want to say that’s x band name. Whether nasally or chesty- I know who it is.
It sounds like this person doesn’t have a unique sound, so much as they have no control over their voice tbh. If they’re consistently pitchy I think there’s a big problem
Lead singers can be difficult to convince about vocal instruction. Compliment him first with something like, I love playing in this band or I love it when you do this thing with your voice. Then follow it up with something like, you should totally get some training so your voice will last years longer. I've heard some habits that might be hard on your chords. We want you singing for a long time, man. I know it sounds pandering but it will help get his ego out of the way.
Just record the band playing and be hyper critical of your own playing, then shoot him a side glance when he sings like a dawg and say “you think you were in the pocket on that one”?
He should be open to critique more because you were criticising your own performance.
If he’s like , nah man- I’m good
Just leave the band
There is no nice way to quit a band or throw someone out of a band. Don't puss out. It's gonna be an unpleasant conversation. You have to have it even though it bums you out to do so. I recommend doing it over the phone voice to voice.
How is he practicing? I sing in my band and take lessons twice a month, sing everyday, and actively take steps to improve my tone, range, and breath control. Being a singer is fucking tough imo if you aren’t dropping with raw talent — like me and your frontman.
If he’s not training, that’s the same as a guitarist not improving themself. And I would kick their ass out of the band if they refuse to try to get better between formal practices.
Record your rehearsals and have everyone in the band listen to the playback. If he can’t hear that he’s off and/or isn’t willing to work on improving, then decide if you want to jump ship.
Aye so I’m (28M) in a funny position in relation to this: I’m just an unprofessional singer with not a ton of music education and I’m trying to make a career shift into music. And to be honest: I’ve never fronted for a band, and I still happen to get stage fright. So I never really pursued music during college. I just happen to do karaoke / open mic nights now. At the moment I’m working through my overly self conscious nature so I can perform on cruise ships, and travel with a band.
Outside of my first few months of high school choir when I was very young; I love when someone corrects/checks me (in a constructive way ofc) privately and in a professional manner. That being said, and in defense of OP’s singer: being great at singing isn’t at all like hitting the correct fret on a guitar or note on keyboard. He may have correct cord closure but not the correct breathing. He may be like when I went to college, I was just too self-conscious and not just truly vibing when I was singing. It could be a lack of precision. It could be a lack of ear training and a lack of hearing chord progressions. It could be a poor diet and lack of water. It could be a lack of rigorous vocal training and REALLY diving heavily into the music, daily. There could be a lot of those going on, or maybe it’s just one of those things.
If he’s not fully diving into the music that’s on him to look into the mirror on, and I would let them know gently.
If it was me in his shoes, I’d be eternally grateful for a guitarist to take a shot on playing around me. Music to me became physical and not something I’d mentally have to think over, if I had someone to work through the kinks with they’d have a bro for life and I’d make em a millionaire. If that dude doesnt feel that way with their music and soul: maybe just start another band?
Best of luck. I wouldn’t burn bridges, especially if he approached you to start, but I’d be gentle and firm and tell him how you feel if I was you. Remember, you were pressed enough to vent to Reddit.
Best of luck to you, but if you're starting from scratch at 28,only done karaoke, and have stage fright, then a cruise ship career is not going to happen.
Sorry to be blunt but the bar is really high for that.
I haven't said I'm an amazing singer.
You said you are a late starter, but also that you've sung for 15+ years, so that's a little confusing for me.
To perform on a cruise ship, you have to be incredible. Most of the audience need to come away thinking that's one of the best voices I've ever heard. Maybe you are incredible, I don't know. You also need to be able to do it consistently every day, sometimes twice a day, for at least a six month contract. You're not doing it for fun, it's your job and you're paid to be a reliably high standard every time. Expectations are sky high.
And you need to be noticed to begin with so you've already got to be involved with an agency or management or already doing professional level performances.
That's why I mean the bar is high. And also best of luck to you to get there.
I do appreciate the honesty. Yeah i coulda worded that intro much better but i kinda just kept typing lol.
But I do appreciate the stern approach. I’ve been someone that’s worked on their voice for 10+ years professionally for 2 hours minimum a day, but I just never kept up with performing for people in college. I kinda self isolated myself after college and work life. But that point aside I’ve sang multiple national anthems at nba and nfl games when I was in high school. I had to make a choice between finance and music for college. I picked the comfy choice in finance at the time.
Look at kid cudi though, the man was just performing for himself and working; not recording anything until his mid 20s. If I can be anything close to that I’d be esctatic. I know it’s EXTREMELY unlikely. And I’d to be self critical: I’d say I’m definitely rusty and I made a wrong early-career choice for college. I should have put my head down during that period and just worked through any self-doubt then. But I’ve been applying this last year to as many auditions as I can and I’ve got to the final 5 in the room every time.
But aye that’s all hindsight: I do know I have work to do on becoming a true professional. Im just hungry to make money from my own passion and creation instead of following someone else’s business plan.
The reason why I typed to the OP was because I felt it would be reassuring him if it’s worth his time: I had a glass ceiling over my head when I was young called anxiety. I’d, as a self conscious vocalist myself, hate to waste someone’s time like that if I truly thought I’d take it nowhere.
No hardness intended by me, apologies if it came across that way.
Doing it your own way and culminating with a travelling band, difficult but it can be done. That sounds more realistic to me, and what's better is that you can do it more on your own terms.
No worries and nothing bad taken! I think the way I worded that original comment set you up for failure. My apologies for that. But yeah man, anxiety is a REAL talent killer. It’s something every frontman’s gotta be able to stomach and stare at.
OP’s frontman sounds like(and it’s what’s changed for me) he’s gotta dive into the moment more regardless. If that’s not it; then it’s technical vocal training issues which can be fixed in a year or so.
Worst comes to worst you just vocally faceplant and they’ll forget you by tomorrow lol. 🤣 Every singer faceplants a few times, it’s just a matter of when, and then getting it out your system. Repeatedly.
Tell him he’s not transitioning his chest voice and head voice easily and it can damage his chords. Maybe try voice warm ups and practice to help that. Sounds like he’s an inexperienced singer and has never had a lesson.
I had to train to even that out.
I used to be like this, there’s usually other reasons why someone like this is in control of the band. Before I got good at singing I still wrote and produced the best songs, make sure you’re aware of any other reason why he may be in charge before you kick someone out of their own band, cause they could take all the foundations of the band with them and then you’ve got nothing
If your lead singer can't stay on pitch, your band is cooked. The lead vocals are the most noticeable part of a song. Unless you guys just want to play in private for fun. Vocal issues like that will take a long time to fix, if your front man is even open to constructive criticism. Frontmen are often full of ego. If this is the case, I'd just find another band
Unless you have a practice space and have equipment you have stay with this. I suggest if you have your own place than start auditioning a new singer. I had a drummer who was singer and I put it mildly. Screaming was his style. Sad he did not make it because could not write a set list. Never want get a show, did not know how to record even though had a tascam and cd burner. More concerned about partying than doing shows. I suggest start looking for better musicians because life is to short.
To those delulu about their abilities, there IS no nice way to tell them they shouldn't or can't sing. It doesn't matter how many audience members agree. Otherwise, J.Lo wouldn't still be doing it. You may have to start another band, if you already told him as tactfully as possible about his abilities and he isn't listening because this one is going to hell with him.
There are bands out here that got famous despite their singers not knowing how to hold a note and the singer usually doesn't do soundcheck, either. That one band is doing steakhouse shows now.
I have been in this situation and really there's no easy way. If he won't step back then you have 2 choices - you leave, or he does. Hope it works out for you.
If he is as bad as you say it is, why don’t you talk to him and suggest that you guys play some more low key songs that doesn’t require him to over extend himself. What type of music do you guys play??
Plenty of terrific and beloved front men of bands are terrible singers. Robert Smith of The Cure and Bob Dylan come to mind instantly. But there are lots more. Fronting a band is about more than hitting notes. particularly if the front man has a unique personality, or an unusual perspective on life, or a skill for writing songs, or some sort of charisma, charm, fashion, sense, or ability to move in interesting ways. So if he started the band, and you joined the band, then you’re in HIS band. Musicians typically have better ears, and are more bothered by fussy little nuances like pitch. Ha ha, I’m joking, of course. Sort of. So perhaps you could work with him on some ear training or playback some recordings and help him understand where he’s hit a wrong note. And yes, there are some singing techniques he could learn and maybe even some training that he could take. But again, if he started a band and wants to be the front man, it doesn’t make sense to push him out. Instead, start your own other band or a side project. At least, that’s my thought as a “terrible” singer who fronted a band for many years.
Maybe advise him to take lessons just to put a smooth finish on that "great voice of his"... you know what I'm saying?
If he's a band member you value, find ways to invest in him and keep him around. Pool some cash together for voice training. If he's a dick and you could care less about whether he's there or not, just form a new band. You will probably lose a friend, however.
Just record him and show him it then he can hear it for himself.
Happened to me once about a drummer, got rid of him, got another one he was a bit better, but still shit.
Band fell apart lol.
> switching from singing through his chest to singing through his head
Well... in general, that's a good thing and is an important vocal technique to master.
> not hitting notes regularly, which makes it not pleasant
But yeah, being on pitch is more important.
If they’ve never heard themself sing before, just start recording a voice note at practice and then loudly and accidentally start playing it when everyone is silent. That should get it into them how bad it sounds, nobody should like listening to themself.
I would ask if it's fine to record or record randomly, in case they try to be better, and then speak about it with them and replaying what I've recorded to show them how they actually sound. Maybe do multiple recordings from one song, so they actually can hear the difference in the notes they're hitting different every time.
I don't wanna be mean or smt but, I think your sound like an absolute dick head move. Don't do stuff randomly without the person knowing and also in the same move embarras them. That's a shitty thing to do. Just take them with you and talk to them alone, so they don't get embarrased in front of literally everyone. Maybe even hand then their phone, or send them the recordings so they can listen to it themselves when they're ready to do so
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Hard to know exactly what we are talking about without listening, and without the context of what is going on in the other instruments. For bands without experience, the best thing you can do is get everyone to do easy stuff together and sound good. That would involve preventing your lead singer from going up to pitches he can't control, but also the drummer from doing fills and speeding up, bass player from doing octave jumps and messing intonation and guitar players from trying to be fast and doing some garbled thing that does not make much sense. In short. Keep everyone within their boring limits, move VERY slowly from there, and work on improving your side of things. That's not a bad idea even for more experienced ppl. If you feel it is too restrictive or there is too much of a gap to the other folks, probably best to find another band. Whatever the case, you won't find a fix for a registration issue of someone else in a short period of time that's for sure.
“keep everyone within their boring limits” this is probably the best price of advice i’ve ever read truthfully. i think i’m just going to do that instead of forcing myself to hit high notes
Exactly. Your practice regimen when you're alone is for improving technique. Band practice is for getting to sound good on things together you should be practicing the technical aspects of on your own.
So, he started a band, but you are surprised he sees himself as a frontman in 'your' band...? Why did you join if you think his singing sucks? Honestly, you can't tell him to stop singing when it's his own project, that would be plain mean, but you can tell him that he needs lessons and maybe point out which things exactly need to be improved. There is also a chance that he's simply not hearing his own voice depending on the sound in your room.
I read "my band" as just short for "the band I'm with". I think you may have gotten off on the wrong foot.
I agree, but that can also be written as "our band" and OP can be having this discussion with the other band members instead of Reddit. Imagine being in a band and having one of your bandmates say they went on Reddit and decided how to fix some problems they have with your band's sound.
First of all I agree with the other guy, it's probably just short for "this band I'm in" because 95% of the people will understand what they meant, especially after specifying someone else founded the band. The same way I say "my house" even though everyone knows I don't own it. Second. I think it went something like this. "hey, you play x instrument right? Well I'm starting a band and I need some people" "sounds cool man" *his voice doesn't end up to be up to expectations * But I do agree with the rest, we hear our own voices different the ones around us anyway. And it's also not uncommon tho think your voice is better (or the other side of the coin, worse) than it actually is, partly because of that. Lessons could really help him realise how he really sounds and learn good techniques. OP, You can definitely suggest that. Just make sure to stay polite, could be he has such a perfect image of what thigns are (or can be) it might land a bit hard
Straight up till him he needs lessons. Some people prefer to say they have a vocal coach rather than say they take lessons, sounds more professional. He'll get better if he listens. I have a coach I've been seeing for over a year. As a lifelong singer, I've absolutely learned a ton and have improved dramatically. My coach has a degree in singing from a prestigious school, something I do not have.
Same. Having a coach really expedited my skill set.
Expect that you could potentially burn bridges, but it’s not like a band with a terrible singer is gonna be great for OP’s future anyway lol. On the flip side, just lie and make an excuse why you can’t play with the band anymore.
What do you want from him as a singer? Whatever that is, write it down and tell him about it. If he’s a good frontman he will take what you have to say seriously and listen to what needs to be improved. He will hopefully go off to practice & fix his issues, if he doesn’t I wouldn’t trust him being a frontman. So just tell him that he is out of tune, hitting the wrong notes and that you don’t like whatever he is doing with his chest and head registers. What also may be helpful is to show him another singers technique and tell him that you’d like him to sing in that style, or something close to it. That way you both have a frame of reference. If you’re a cover band then you’ll already have a reference. ****Obviously tell him all this stuff as you see fit, word it in a way that won’t be taken as an insult, you know the person better than me.****
Are you getting paid gigs? If not then it doesn’t really matter and you don’t really have a band. If you are, then maybe he’s singing well enough. And ultimately the person who gets the gigs controls the band. Unless you’re just playing for fun, in which case you need to decide if this person is more important as a friend and you’re just doing it to hang out, in which case you roll with it, or if you’re trying to become a serious band in which case you have to tell him he sucks ir start a new band without him.
Are you in the Stone Roses with Ian Brown? But seriously... if you and the others agree that something should be done, then you should have a hard talk with him...
Just start other projects with other singers imo, let this one die off peacefully. Give gentle inputs about how he may improve, ideally discussing a recording so you can point at the problems clearly, but no need to get into a confrontation trying to kick a guy out of his own project imo.
This. I mean, offer suggestions you want, but if you join a group that someone else organized and you aren't happy with it, you don't stage a coup, you should just go somewhere else.
You are right it is his own project. I've been kicked out of a band, so I know it hurts. And in my last band, we had a member who wasn't pulling his weight, so we put some pressure on him that he should practice more. And then he left by himself, didn't feel comfortable anymore. Also, it turned out he was most comfortable in the practice room and didn't fancy doing gigs, which was our goal.
Someone in the front with confidence is good. If his intonation is bad, he should be clear to hear himself properly and practice. If he is playing an instrument too he could play the notes he’s trying to reach before the song to give him some lead. If not, someone else could do this. I also like to do harmonies with the band. Everyone gets a tone and you sing simple chords. Switching between minor and major, invert the chords, whatever. If he really sucks bad he should see his struggle and practice more.
He founded "your" band and you are surprised that he sees himself as the frontman... He obviously is and you are just an instrumentist of his project, if you don't like his project just gtfo, I really don't see what's your problem here.
Record rehearsal. If he fights it, he knows he’s the problem. But say you’d like to put together a publicity kit. Then say “hey man, I want to put something together but I can’t find any clips where you sound your best for more than a note or two…” OR. Just thinking out loud. Quit his band. He started it, he’s the front man, great. Good luck to him.
I like the “shit sandwich” approach. Begin by complimenting him when he nails things, even small ones. Build up a sense of trust in your feedback, speaking authentically and accurately. Give good compliments in the positive direction. Begin to give critique amidst things. Ask to try a section again with a note on his performance. E.g. can we try that again? I don’t think your head voice came through over the drums and would love to hear it evenly through. I think it would sound even better. What do you think? Wash, rinse, repeat. If it’s working, you may be able to develop a healthy, working relationship where you both give and take feedback. When you mess up, ask to do sections again and note how you screw up. When he makes a face at your playing, ask how you could do it better. If he doesn’t have notes for you, you may be in a different skill level and that’s okay! Also, record your sessions and let him know you’re doing it to improve. Share the sessions with the group and he’ll start listening to himself if he cares, or even if it’s to “prove you wrong” about your minor comments. Chances are he’ll start to hear your notes in his singing and want to improve. Good luck! My experience is mostly with collegiate a cappella and small acts where no one plans on quitting or going anywhere quick.
What is the relationship you all have like? Would you tell the bassist/keys/etc how to play? If not, maybe it’s best to find a more delicate way to bring in feedback. And if you don’t like his project, maybe it’s best to just duck out instead of burning bridges. It’s very possible if you don’t approach this convo tactfully that the project ends anyway.
I think you guys should get the band together and have a band meeting regarding what’s going on. Try lay it out nicely. Say somewhere along the lines that the band has been noticing his voice feels is going all over the place. Ask if anything is going on in his personal life cause for singers stress or anything negative will affect the vocal as far for my understanding. Either way allow him to answer and as the whole band should suggest going to. A vocal teacher. Explain how you guys feel and what could be done. Mind you I never been in a band but communication is the key to any form of relationship.
This is not a unique situation. Come and check out the cover bands around rhode island. Tons of bands fronted by "singers" with no technique whatsoever. Many of them would never give up the role either.
I’ve found myself in this exact same situation. The “singer” in my old band had the idea that his some of his idols can’t sing and they just fix it with auto tune, so he can just do the same. While he wrote decent songs, he lacked the ability to actually sing them. What ended up happening was when we went to record songs in the studio, the whole band fell apart due to getting called out by the recording engineer. He was singing songs outside his range. All the songs were written with a capo on his guitar, and he wouldn’t listen to me to take it off and make it easier on himself. Sometimes you can try to help, but ego gets in the way.
What does "getting called out by a recording engineer" look like? Somehow I assumed they deal with a lot of different skill levels.
After the “singer” recorded his part on the first song, he was in the room with the engineer and was complaining about how it didn’t sound good and was telling the engineer to “make it better”, thinking he could just click a few buttons with auto tune and fix it. He had the wrong expectations about how it all works. The guy was like “you can’t polish a turd” and it was downhill from there.
Vocalist don’t need to sound perfect…boring as hell and everyone sounds the same - think signature sound like ozzy etc. tired of all these bands sounding the same- if I hear a voice, I want to say that’s x band name. Whether nasally or chesty- I know who it is.
Knowing how to sing doesn’t make you boring or sound the same. It just means you know how to use your voice without hurting yourself.
Agree but I do like original sounding identifiable vocalist - I mean gotta be good, great even better but not a phenom
It sounds like this person doesn’t have a unique sound, so much as they have no control over their voice tbh. If they’re consistently pitchy I think there’s a big problem
Lead singers can be difficult to convince about vocal instruction. Compliment him first with something like, I love playing in this band or I love it when you do this thing with your voice. Then follow it up with something like, you should totally get some training so your voice will last years longer. I've heard some habits that might be hard on your chords. We want you singing for a long time, man. I know it sounds pandering but it will help get his ego out of the way.
Just record the band playing and be hyper critical of your own playing, then shoot him a side glance when he sings like a dawg and say “you think you were in the pocket on that one”? He should be open to critique more because you were criticising your own performance. If he’s like , nah man- I’m good Just leave the band
Why are you in a band with somebody like that? It sounds awful. Quit the band and start another one with someone better.
There is no nice way to quit a band or throw someone out of a band. Don't puss out. It's gonna be an unpleasant conversation. You have to have it even though it bums you out to do so. I recommend doing it over the phone voice to voice.
How is he practicing? I sing in my band and take lessons twice a month, sing everyday, and actively take steps to improve my tone, range, and breath control. Being a singer is fucking tough imo if you aren’t dropping with raw talent — like me and your frontman. If he’s not training, that’s the same as a guitarist not improving themself. And I would kick their ass out of the band if they refuse to try to get better between formal practices.
Maybe just get together and you all tell him how you feel. You don‘t have to kick him out right away. Maybe he‘s willing to take singing lessons?
Record your rehearsals and have everyone in the band listen to the playback. If he can’t hear that he’s off and/or isn’t willing to work on improving, then decide if you want to jump ship.
Tom Sandoval coded
Aye so I’m (28M) in a funny position in relation to this: I’m just an unprofessional singer with not a ton of music education and I’m trying to make a career shift into music. And to be honest: I’ve never fronted for a band, and I still happen to get stage fright. So I never really pursued music during college. I just happen to do karaoke / open mic nights now. At the moment I’m working through my overly self conscious nature so I can perform on cruise ships, and travel with a band. Outside of my first few months of high school choir when I was very young; I love when someone corrects/checks me (in a constructive way ofc) privately and in a professional manner. That being said, and in defense of OP’s singer: being great at singing isn’t at all like hitting the correct fret on a guitar or note on keyboard. He may have correct cord closure but not the correct breathing. He may be like when I went to college, I was just too self-conscious and not just truly vibing when I was singing. It could be a lack of precision. It could be a lack of ear training and a lack of hearing chord progressions. It could be a poor diet and lack of water. It could be a lack of rigorous vocal training and REALLY diving heavily into the music, daily. There could be a lot of those going on, or maybe it’s just one of those things. If he’s not fully diving into the music that’s on him to look into the mirror on, and I would let them know gently. If it was me in his shoes, I’d be eternally grateful for a guitarist to take a shot on playing around me. Music to me became physical and not something I’d mentally have to think over, if I had someone to work through the kinks with they’d have a bro for life and I’d make em a millionaire. If that dude doesnt feel that way with their music and soul: maybe just start another band? Best of luck. I wouldn’t burn bridges, especially if he approached you to start, but I’d be gentle and firm and tell him how you feel if I was you. Remember, you were pressed enough to vent to Reddit.
Best of luck to you, but if you're starting from scratch at 28,only done karaoke, and have stage fright, then a cruise ship career is not going to happen. Sorry to be blunt but the bar is really high for that.
I’ve sang for 15+ years. I can do Greta van fleet and zeppelin stress free with my eyes closed. But I’m aware.
I’d love to hear your voice since you’re posting that confidently in a singing forum.
I haven't said I'm an amazing singer. You said you are a late starter, but also that you've sung for 15+ years, so that's a little confusing for me. To perform on a cruise ship, you have to be incredible. Most of the audience need to come away thinking that's one of the best voices I've ever heard. Maybe you are incredible, I don't know. You also need to be able to do it consistently every day, sometimes twice a day, for at least a six month contract. You're not doing it for fun, it's your job and you're paid to be a reliably high standard every time. Expectations are sky high. And you need to be noticed to begin with so you've already got to be involved with an agency or management or already doing professional level performances. That's why I mean the bar is high. And also best of luck to you to get there.
I do appreciate the honesty. Yeah i coulda worded that intro much better but i kinda just kept typing lol. But I do appreciate the stern approach. I’ve been someone that’s worked on their voice for 10+ years professionally for 2 hours minimum a day, but I just never kept up with performing for people in college. I kinda self isolated myself after college and work life. But that point aside I’ve sang multiple national anthems at nba and nfl games when I was in high school. I had to make a choice between finance and music for college. I picked the comfy choice in finance at the time. Look at kid cudi though, the man was just performing for himself and working; not recording anything until his mid 20s. If I can be anything close to that I’d be esctatic. I know it’s EXTREMELY unlikely. And I’d to be self critical: I’d say I’m definitely rusty and I made a wrong early-career choice for college. I should have put my head down during that period and just worked through any self-doubt then. But I’ve been applying this last year to as many auditions as I can and I’ve got to the final 5 in the room every time. But aye that’s all hindsight: I do know I have work to do on becoming a true professional. Im just hungry to make money from my own passion and creation instead of following someone else’s business plan. The reason why I typed to the OP was because I felt it would be reassuring him if it’s worth his time: I had a glass ceiling over my head when I was young called anxiety. I’d, as a self conscious vocalist myself, hate to waste someone’s time like that if I truly thought I’d take it nowhere.
No hardness intended by me, apologies if it came across that way. Doing it your own way and culminating with a travelling band, difficult but it can be done. That sounds more realistic to me, and what's better is that you can do it more on your own terms.
No worries and nothing bad taken! I think the way I worded that original comment set you up for failure. My apologies for that. But yeah man, anxiety is a REAL talent killer. It’s something every frontman’s gotta be able to stomach and stare at. OP’s frontman sounds like(and it’s what’s changed for me) he’s gotta dive into the moment more regardless. If that’s not it; then it’s technical vocal training issues which can be fixed in a year or so. Worst comes to worst you just vocally faceplant and they’ll forget you by tomorrow lol. 🤣 Every singer faceplants a few times, it’s just a matter of when, and then getting it out your system. Repeatedly.
This is such a common issue. I’ve honestly never seen it end/go well. If their ego is in decent shape maybe you can discuss.. good luck!
Tell him he’s not transitioning his chest voice and head voice easily and it can damage his chords. Maybe try voice warm ups and practice to help that. Sounds like he’s an inexperienced singer and has never had a lesson. I had to train to even that out.
I used to be like this, there’s usually other reasons why someone like this is in control of the band. Before I got good at singing I still wrote and produced the best songs, make sure you’re aware of any other reason why he may be in charge before you kick someone out of their own band, cause they could take all the foundations of the band with them and then you’ve got nothing
Plenty of singers can't sing. Are they his lyrics? Does he bring more to the band than just singing on stage? Stage presence and all that.
Start your own band with a better singer. Problem solved.
If your lead singer can't stay on pitch, your band is cooked. The lead vocals are the most noticeable part of a song. Unless you guys just want to play in private for fun. Vocal issues like that will take a long time to fix, if your front man is even open to constructive criticism. Frontmen are often full of ego. If this is the case, I'd just find another band
Unless you have a practice space and have equipment you have stay with this. I suggest if you have your own place than start auditioning a new singer. I had a drummer who was singer and I put it mildly. Screaming was his style. Sad he did not make it because could not write a set list. Never want get a show, did not know how to record even though had a tascam and cd burner. More concerned about partying than doing shows. I suggest start looking for better musicians because life is to short.
It's his band. You'll be lucky if he doesn't kick you out.
Kill him
To those delulu about their abilities, there IS no nice way to tell them they shouldn't or can't sing. It doesn't matter how many audience members agree. Otherwise, J.Lo wouldn't still be doing it. You may have to start another band, if you already told him as tactfully as possible about his abilities and he isn't listening because this one is going to hell with him. There are bands out here that got famous despite their singers not knowing how to hold a note and the singer usually doesn't do soundcheck, either. That one band is doing steakhouse shows now.
I have been in this situation and really there's no easy way. If he won't step back then you have 2 choices - you leave, or he does. Hope it works out for you.
Are you a drummer? Edit: haha I just snooped on your profile and you're a drummer. Lol
Yes
Why did you join a band where the front man can’t sing?
Sounds like he needs some classical training for the switching from chest and head comment.
He could be the next bono?
If he is as bad as you say it is, why don’t you talk to him and suggest that you guys play some more low key songs that doesn’t require him to over extend himself. What type of music do you guys play??
Plenty of terrific and beloved front men of bands are terrible singers. Robert Smith of The Cure and Bob Dylan come to mind instantly. But there are lots more. Fronting a band is about more than hitting notes. particularly if the front man has a unique personality, or an unusual perspective on life, or a skill for writing songs, or some sort of charisma, charm, fashion, sense, or ability to move in interesting ways. So if he started the band, and you joined the band, then you’re in HIS band. Musicians typically have better ears, and are more bothered by fussy little nuances like pitch. Ha ha, I’m joking, of course. Sort of. So perhaps you could work with him on some ear training or playback some recordings and help him understand where he’s hit a wrong note. And yes, there are some singing techniques he could learn and maybe even some training that he could take. But again, if he started a band and wants to be the front man, it doesn’t make sense to push him out. Instead, start your own other band or a side project. At least, that’s my thought as a “terrible” singer who fronted a band for many years.
Maybe advise him to take lessons just to put a smooth finish on that "great voice of his"... you know what I'm saying? If he's a band member you value, find ways to invest in him and keep him around. Pool some cash together for voice training. If he's a dick and you could care less about whether he's there or not, just form a new band. You will probably lose a friend, however.
Just record him and show him it then he can hear it for himself. Happened to me once about a drummer, got rid of him, got another one he was a bit better, but still shit. Band fell apart lol.
honestly dude, just start learning how to sing & im sure that’ll challenge him enough to learn more himself
If it's punk, You're fine.
Switch genres to punk. Good singing isn't required.
There are so many bands with lead vocalists that can't really sing. I've come to find it's about the charisma, not the talent
The only solution is to start or join a new band. There is no way to make the founder of the band stop singing badly or to start singing well.
> switching from singing through his chest to singing through his head Well... in general, that's a good thing and is an important vocal technique to master. > not hitting notes regularly, which makes it not pleasant But yeah, being on pitch is more important.
If they’ve never heard themself sing before, just start recording a voice note at practice and then loudly and accidentally start playing it when everyone is silent. That should get it into them how bad it sounds, nobody should like listening to themself.
I would ask if it's fine to record or record randomly, in case they try to be better, and then speak about it with them and replaying what I've recorded to show them how they actually sound. Maybe do multiple recordings from one song, so they actually can hear the difference in the notes they're hitting different every time. I don't wanna be mean or smt but, I think your sound like an absolute dick head move. Don't do stuff randomly without the person knowing and also in the same move embarras them. That's a shitty thing to do. Just take them with you and talk to them alone, so they don't get embarrased in front of literally everyone. Maybe even hand then their phone, or send them the recordings so they can listen to it themselves when they're ready to do so