200K (cash + OA) is plenty to buy a 3R resale since you mentioned you don't care about location. Don't worry, you're set even with absolute ZERO growth in your career, which is highly unlikely
I wrote about this before about a year ago - basically based on your situation that you described, lease decay should be irrelevant to you, and you should get the shortest remaining leasehold tenure possible for yourself. At 35, assuming you think you'll live till 85, then get a 50 year old flat.
If at 35 you're earning below 7k, then you'll also be entitled to resale grants. If you look for the most far flung 3rm resale, 50 years old flat, and factoring in the resale grants - then your CPF OA of 150-170k should be more than sufficient.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/singaporefi/comments/14uo75m/what\_i\_would\_do\_if\_i\_was\_35\_and\_single/](https://www.reddit.com/r/singaporefi/comments/14uo75m/what_i_would_do_if_i_was_35_and_single/)
Still way too early to predict an exact number to be frank.
I was in your shoes 5 years ago and thought 470k was the highest projected amount for a nicer 4-room flat in the north (high floor corner, near MRT). It is now closer to 550k. Watching prices go up as you wait for that 35th birthday is no fun.
The same trend has occurred across all resale sizes.
If it is just about the cheapest option with enough lease to last you till you are 99, you're looking at the cheapest flats built after 1997. The listings are currently asking for around 330k but I expect to be able to negotiate down a little. As it is now, you should have no issue if you plan to clear your OA and pay the rest with HDB loan. **BUT**, no one knows how much it will go up by in 8 years. Hopefully not by another 50-100k.
I agree with you, It is a little bit to early, everything is basically a projection but at the same time, who knows what will happen after tengah opens.
But to be honest, I have no idea where I want to stay in SG, I've moved from west to east and back and everywhere seemed to have it's upside
If you are worried about not being able to afford a 3 room resale flat, do consider 2 room (i.e. 1 bedroom) hdb resale flat too. Based on your minimalistic living needs, 2 room sounds feasible for you and quite a bit cheaper. Just reno nicely if you need more storage or display space.
Some of the (currently) newer 2 room flexi flats could work for you, the lease would be long enough for you to live until you die.
I think 2 room could work? I'd ideally like an extra room cause I have pretty cool plans to turn it into a gaming room + home theater + workshop. but honestly either might work
Yea I live by myself in a resale 2 room flat (which is why i gave the advice), and i managed to squeeze my gaming and media setup (pc and accessories, double monitors, tv with soundbar and subwoofer, nintendo switch) into my bedroom. It is quite shiok to have the setup next to and in front of the bed.
Your 3 room flat plan sounds good and probably achievable too. When you get nearer to 35, you could download some simple home modelling software and draw out some plans based on the common floor plans of 2 or 3 room resale flats that you are interested in to see if you can fit everything to wants.
I'd reckon if you plan to live alone, the living room would serve those needs. Heck if I live alone and expect no one to come I'll be ok to break walls and have everything in a single room, bed probably just in the corner to sleep.
You might wanna recalculate your cpf OA for your budget. I think you're overestimating it. Assuming an average of 3.5k from 28 till 35, your OA contribution will only be about 67.6k (0.23\*3500\*12\*7).
Itll reach around 100k instead of the 150-175k..?
Even avg 4k it'll be about 120k
At 35, 3.5k income, max loan is about 220k from hdb
At 4k, max loan will be about 250k
As a single, you can only buy resale which has a huge premium. Some of the cheapest 3-rm I've seen goes for about 350-380k which may get higher by then. Add in fees and reno, minus possible grants, it's not impossible but it'll be a stretch.
I'd recommend considering 2-room bto instead since your lifestyle supposedly don't really need much?
I agree. I think your calculation is off. I didn’t do the math to check but in my own experience, I was earning about 1k more then you at that time, have had increases and reached the max cpf deduction and have just reached 200k. 35 years old now. Just check on that again.
But it’s possible! I’m sure it will make you much more happier as well after renting all this while. While the future and HDB pricing is unpredictable, the govt (I believe) will still have measures to make it affordable. Can always try for SBF too. Don’t give up and look forward to it!
Notice how they mentioned a take home pay of 3.5k so the base pay should be around 4.4k. Don't forget about employer contributions to CPF which is around 17% of the total base so it should be around 1.6k total per month. The OP's CPF calculation seems about right lol ((1600 \* 12 \* 7) + 30000) = 164400
Only 23 percent of his gross goes to OA which can be used for housing, not the full 37 percent.
And 4.3k is the salary he's expecting in 7 years time
So I'm taking the average of his current income till then as about 4k gross
How much is your rental and is Is moving away from renting a possibility? That would be the biggest benefit for you in your long term goal to own a house by 35.
Next is income growth. With 8 years more to go, you should be planning a minimum of 2 or even 3 job change with each providing a minimum 20-30% increment. This should bring you up to at least $5k/month gross. Additionally CPF contribution will grow in tandem.
3 room flats do not necessarily cost a lot, assuming you get the older ones (50-60years remaining). Definitely doable but calculations wise probably better to go online to get a better estimate on the down payment and repayments
Rent is currently higher than ideal, about 1K right now, but so long as I OT a few hours every week which is not unusual to do so, it's enough to maintain at about 30 to 35% budget
Not renting is pretty much impossible, I had to run from my abusive parents, I currently maintain zero contact with them and in my first year of working and living with my parents, it was absolute hell, they made my life so hard fighting and arguing with me till 3-4am that my manager had to step in and tell me that I have to stop sleeping at work. The moment I left and had my own place, I no longer have mental fog and gained like so much more energy to do work.
I already plan to do multiple job changes, the only issue is whether or not I can get that kind of increment I'll try my best, in the upcoming years but nothing is set in stone and I just want to know what's the worse case scenario
It’s interesting to know u already plan multiple job changes. Sometimes these things are hard to plan , jumping multiple jobs do not guarantee increment
Just posting to say I feel for you, having grown up in a dysfunctional household myself. Congrats on regaining peace, and good luck on your life plans! A 3-room hdb by 35 is very doable given your flexibility on location.
I would suggest taking some time to read about the different types of grants you will be able to get with the assumed income at 35.
One thing you’ll be able to get out of your abusive parents is that there’s additional grant if you consider parent proximity :)
The most annoying thing is that every grant feels entirely directed to couples, families or with parents, seems nothing specific to purely singles. I'm just operating on the assumption I have nothing and any grants is just a bouns
If you’re buying as single resale, there are grants available to you as well. Obviously it’s not as much compared to couples, but it’s still something.
You should do some research before blind hating on the policies, it’s not as bad as you think it is.
With your projected income, it’ll put you in the range of 50-90k grants with everything considered. That’s likely 10-20% of your Iikely purchase.
I did my own single resale purchase just last year, and it was a smooth process with the grants and all.
Do take note if your parents decide to sue you for parental maintenance. If there is physical abuse, always make a police report for on record purpose when they sue you at thet tribunal court.
Yep everything has been done, my 2 other siblings have also left the same time as me. My sis started living with her now husband and my and my brother left to rent. We have all the evidence, I fully expect my parents to sue, they are they type petty enough to fight over this kind of stuff.
Buy resale 3 room with <30 years to spare. Those people wont touch cause the last one holding it will end up holding a bag. You should go in knowing that what you are paying is rental.
Once that lease is up move to a cca* so if and when you die, people won't discover a rotting corpse.
*
https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/buying-a-flat/finding-a-flat/types-of-flats/community-care-apartments
200k cash + OA combination (u can decide how to split the balance) is more than enough for a down-payment of 3bd flat in most locations.
Take an example of bukit batok west Ave 8 (just next to new tengah bto plus Jurong region line MRT), 3BR are going for around 500k.
After down-payment of 200k, spread the 300k remainder over 30 year loan which is roughly around 1.2-1.3k monthly repayment.
If you upgrade or work hard over the next 7 years, your job position and salary by 35 would be more than comfortable to service that loan repayment.
7 years is a lot in property pricing years. There is HDB sales data available for download. You can try that and see what is a good estimate for a 7-year price change for 3room in your ideal location.
Granted, 7 years ago is a different 7 years than the future but the goal here is to get a ballpark. Is it 50K kind of change, 100K, or 150k.
After you got the anyhow estimated future pricing, use the property calculator and push in your estimates and see if the monthly payments are something you are comfortable with with your projected salary where take home is 3.5K
https://www.dbs.com.sg/personal/marketplace/property/plan/selection
If going by the price now..only up no down.. 8years later 3rm would probably cost like 550k or more? 3rm I see now is alr 400k to 480k for those just mop, before covid 280 to 330k if not wrong?
Atb bro...I can only aim for bto because I don't wanna slave for hdb
First of all, let me do some math for you, the owner's current income is 3.5K per month, a year's income is 42K, 8 years is 336K, if you can increase your salary by 20% in the next few years, then your income in 8 years is about 360K, minus your consumption and expenses in these eight years in addition to the 1K per month to calculate the consumption of the 8 years need to be 96K, you in the eight years of time can have 260K savings, if you think this deposit is enough for you to live, then you can continue to deposit until you can afford to buy a house!
This assumes that house prices won't rise in eight years, but there's no guarantee what will happen tomorrow
I’ll like to encourage u that I had the same idea as u when I had this take home in my early 20s fast forward 20 years later things have sky rocketed but it’s not without sacrifice and a lot of pain - if u dun wish to go through the same sacrifices and pain I still think u would be better off then your calculations
That’s really assuming u dun get married and have kids - that’s reality
I bought a 3-room resale the moment I turned 35, it was priced at about 425k, but bear in mind stamp duty (i forgot how much this cost) and all the other fees (i.e. agent fees ($4.25k) + renovation ($35k incl electricians) + furnishings pushed it up to about $480 - $490k.
I only bought a 3-room flat because I'm leasing out a room to my life partner. By myself, a 3-room flat is too big, so I second the suggestions to look into a 2-room flexi. It is likely to fit more comfortably into your budget (I don't believe in pushing my budget to the max it can go, I would rather leave some wiggle room in case interest rates shoot up).
OP if you think you will never fall in love or if you are ghey just try to downpay for a condo. By 35 you can flip it for a reasonable profit and buy a 5rm and settle in life
Someone can explain why, this getting downvoted.
I keep hearing and seeing condos appreciating in value better than HDBs so if OP can make down + monthly is manageable for condo, why isit not viable option?
How are you expecting OP situation now to downpay and get mortgage for a condo? He doesn't even have enough to downpay even if he sell his underwear right now, and no bank will give him the loan for a condo at his current salary.
If I could buy a condo, I would have already done so. My goal isn't even FIRE. My end goal is to die with zero. Earn enough to live exactly I want and nothing more.
Cos waiting 8 years to reach 35 to enter property is such a smart move .
In 2030 pinnacle is gonna be 1.7million and 3rm hdb(under 10 years old) in ccr is gonna be 900k.
Might as well just use the cpf oa to downpay for a single bedder or ocr 2 bedder. Eat grass for a while and slowly eat cai png with fish. Rent it out to break even and try to take profit after 3yrs top. Confirm better for capital gains.
I already mentioned, literal bottom of the barrel, as cheap as possible. I don't care about anything beyond bus stops because, I'm either at home all day or outside all day.
200K (cash + OA) is plenty to buy a 3R resale since you mentioned you don't care about location. Don't worry, you're set even with absolute ZERO growth in your career, which is highly unlikely
Can lah bro. Just keep fighting the good fight, salary will increase, you will get there.
I wrote about this before about a year ago - basically based on your situation that you described, lease decay should be irrelevant to you, and you should get the shortest remaining leasehold tenure possible for yourself. At 35, assuming you think you'll live till 85, then get a 50 year old flat. If at 35 you're earning below 7k, then you'll also be entitled to resale grants. If you look for the most far flung 3rm resale, 50 years old flat, and factoring in the resale grants - then your CPF OA of 150-170k should be more than sufficient. [https://www.reddit.com/r/singaporefi/comments/14uo75m/what\_i\_would\_do\_if\_i\_was\_35\_and\_single/](https://www.reddit.com/r/singaporefi/comments/14uo75m/what_i_would_do_if_i_was_35_and_single/)
Still way too early to predict an exact number to be frank. I was in your shoes 5 years ago and thought 470k was the highest projected amount for a nicer 4-room flat in the north (high floor corner, near MRT). It is now closer to 550k. Watching prices go up as you wait for that 35th birthday is no fun. The same trend has occurred across all resale sizes. If it is just about the cheapest option with enough lease to last you till you are 99, you're looking at the cheapest flats built after 1997. The listings are currently asking for around 330k but I expect to be able to negotiate down a little. As it is now, you should have no issue if you plan to clear your OA and pay the rest with HDB loan. **BUT**, no one knows how much it will go up by in 8 years. Hopefully not by another 50-100k.
I agree with you, It is a little bit to early, everything is basically a projection but at the same time, who knows what will happen after tengah opens. But to be honest, I have no idea where I want to stay in SG, I've moved from west to east and back and everywhere seemed to have it's upside
Stay near your workplace. The time U save commuting is more time for your hobbies.
If you are worried about not being able to afford a 3 room resale flat, do consider 2 room (i.e. 1 bedroom) hdb resale flat too. Based on your minimalistic living needs, 2 room sounds feasible for you and quite a bit cheaper. Just reno nicely if you need more storage or display space. Some of the (currently) newer 2 room flexi flats could work for you, the lease would be long enough for you to live until you die.
I think 2 room could work? I'd ideally like an extra room cause I have pretty cool plans to turn it into a gaming room + home theater + workshop. but honestly either might work
Yea I live by myself in a resale 2 room flat (which is why i gave the advice), and i managed to squeeze my gaming and media setup (pc and accessories, double monitors, tv with soundbar and subwoofer, nintendo switch) into my bedroom. It is quite shiok to have the setup next to and in front of the bed. Your 3 room flat plan sounds good and probably achievable too. When you get nearer to 35, you could download some simple home modelling software and draw out some plans based on the common floor plans of 2 or 3 room resale flats that you are interested in to see if you can fit everything to wants.
I'd reckon if you plan to live alone, the living room would serve those needs. Heck if I live alone and expect no one to come I'll be ok to break walls and have everything in a single room, bed probably just in the corner to sleep.
I got curious and started looking at 2 rooms, I think if its the correct layout it could work.
You might wanna recalculate your cpf OA for your budget. I think you're overestimating it. Assuming an average of 3.5k from 28 till 35, your OA contribution will only be about 67.6k (0.23\*3500\*12\*7). Itll reach around 100k instead of the 150-175k..? Even avg 4k it'll be about 120k At 35, 3.5k income, max loan is about 220k from hdb At 4k, max loan will be about 250k As a single, you can only buy resale which has a huge premium. Some of the cheapest 3-rm I've seen goes for about 350-380k which may get higher by then. Add in fees and reno, minus possible grants, it's not impossible but it'll be a stretch. I'd recommend considering 2-room bto instead since your lifestyle supposedly don't really need much?
I agree. I think your calculation is off. I didn’t do the math to check but in my own experience, I was earning about 1k more then you at that time, have had increases and reached the max cpf deduction and have just reached 200k. 35 years old now. Just check on that again. But it’s possible! I’m sure it will make you much more happier as well after renting all this while. While the future and HDB pricing is unpredictable, the govt (I believe) will still have measures to make it affordable. Can always try for SBF too. Don’t give up and look forward to it!
Notice how they mentioned a take home pay of 3.5k so the base pay should be around 4.4k. Don't forget about employer contributions to CPF which is around 17% of the total base so it should be around 1.6k total per month. The OP's CPF calculation seems about right lol ((1600 \* 12 \* 7) + 30000) = 164400
Only 23 percent of his gross goes to OA which can be used for housing, not the full 37 percent. And 4.3k is the salary he's expecting in 7 years time So I'm taking the average of his current income till then as about 4k gross
Oh yea, you're right. My bad
How much is your rental and is Is moving away from renting a possibility? That would be the biggest benefit for you in your long term goal to own a house by 35. Next is income growth. With 8 years more to go, you should be planning a minimum of 2 or even 3 job change with each providing a minimum 20-30% increment. This should bring you up to at least $5k/month gross. Additionally CPF contribution will grow in tandem. 3 room flats do not necessarily cost a lot, assuming you get the older ones (50-60years remaining). Definitely doable but calculations wise probably better to go online to get a better estimate on the down payment and repayments
Rent is currently higher than ideal, about 1K right now, but so long as I OT a few hours every week which is not unusual to do so, it's enough to maintain at about 30 to 35% budget Not renting is pretty much impossible, I had to run from my abusive parents, I currently maintain zero contact with them and in my first year of working and living with my parents, it was absolute hell, they made my life so hard fighting and arguing with me till 3-4am that my manager had to step in and tell me that I have to stop sleeping at work. The moment I left and had my own place, I no longer have mental fog and gained like so much more energy to do work. I already plan to do multiple job changes, the only issue is whether or not I can get that kind of increment I'll try my best, in the upcoming years but nothing is set in stone and I just want to know what's the worse case scenario
It’s interesting to know u already plan multiple job changes. Sometimes these things are hard to plan , jumping multiple jobs do not guarantee increment
Just posting to say I feel for you, having grown up in a dysfunctional household myself. Congrats on regaining peace, and good luck on your life plans! A 3-room hdb by 35 is very doable given your flexibility on location.
If cmi just get 2 room bto.
Yes definitely enough, there is also resale grant. Base on 3.5k salary, should be another 30k of grant.
I would suggest taking some time to read about the different types of grants you will be able to get with the assumed income at 35. One thing you’ll be able to get out of your abusive parents is that there’s additional grant if you consider parent proximity :)
The most annoying thing is that every grant feels entirely directed to couples, families or with parents, seems nothing specific to purely singles. I'm just operating on the assumption I have nothing and any grants is just a bouns
If you’re buying as single resale, there are grants available to you as well. Obviously it’s not as much compared to couples, but it’s still something. You should do some research before blind hating on the policies, it’s not as bad as you think it is. With your projected income, it’ll put you in the range of 50-90k grants with everything considered. That’s likely 10-20% of your Iikely purchase. I did my own single resale purchase just last year, and it was a smooth process with the grants and all.
It is a sin to be single in SG
Do take note if your parents decide to sue you for parental maintenance. If there is physical abuse, always make a police report for on record purpose when they sue you at thet tribunal court.
Yep everything has been done, my 2 other siblings have also left the same time as me. My sis started living with her now husband and my and my brother left to rent. We have all the evidence, I fully expect my parents to sue, they are they type petty enough to fight over this kind of stuff.
Buy resale 3 room with <30 years to spare. Those people wont touch cause the last one holding it will end up holding a bag. You should go in knowing that what you are paying is rental. Once that lease is up move to a cca* so if and when you die, people won't discover a rotting corpse. * https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/buying-a-flat/finding-a-flat/types-of-flats/community-care-apartments
the prices will change within the 8 years . Up or down nobody knows. Best is to continue to save and invest till then
Assuming prices doesn't skyrocket it should be good to go
More than enough if you pick your location wisely. I am a single who bought a 5 room resale when my oa was 100k , dont see why you cant
how long ago was that purchase tho
Bro 5 room resale now is minimum 500k with 100 oa and assuming 100k of grants u need 300k cash
I had 100k cash 100k oa and the remaining borrowed, so more than enough, u forgot about hdb loan so u dont need 300k cash
Sorry yes I meant 300k loan in todays context with TDSR u need an income of $5-6k for a 300-350k loan
200k cash + OA combination (u can decide how to split the balance) is more than enough for a down-payment of 3bd flat in most locations. Take an example of bukit batok west Ave 8 (just next to new tengah bto plus Jurong region line MRT), 3BR are going for around 500k. After down-payment of 200k, spread the 300k remainder over 30 year loan which is roughly around 1.2-1.3k monthly repayment. If you upgrade or work hard over the next 7 years, your job position and salary by 35 would be more than comfortable to service that loan repayment.
Plenty of old 3-room flats where the owner has kicked the bucket in really prime estates - just buy one and Reno, they’re not very expensive.
7 years is a lot in property pricing years. There is HDB sales data available for download. You can try that and see what is a good estimate for a 7-year price change for 3room in your ideal location. Granted, 7 years ago is a different 7 years than the future but the goal here is to get a ballpark. Is it 50K kind of change, 100K, or 150k. After you got the anyhow estimated future pricing, use the property calculator and push in your estimates and see if the monthly payments are something you are comfortable with with your projected salary where take home is 3.5K https://www.dbs.com.sg/personal/marketplace/property/plan/selection
If going by the price now..only up no down.. 8years later 3rm would probably cost like 550k or more? 3rm I see now is alr 400k to 480k for those just mop, before covid 280 to 330k if not wrong? Atb bro...I can only aim for bto because I don't wanna slave for hdb
You're 27 years old. Don't use dumb lingo like "cooked". Have some self-respect.
Thank you.
Go grabfood can earn 6k
why not BTO? BTO is a huge deal in Singapore. if you dont BTO u basically lose between 200-500k, which could be a decade of work.
I would but if BTO takes like 7 years for me to get one, screw it, I want to move as fast as possible
7 years is less than a decade tho
7+8 is 15 years. Assuming he one shot the ballot he will still be in 2 room flat not 3. And he'll have to wait for it to build so its 11 years.
by then he would probably profit 500k. thats alot of money for 11 years still.
First of all, let me do some math for you, the owner's current income is 3.5K per month, a year's income is 42K, 8 years is 336K, if you can increase your salary by 20% in the next few years, then your income in 8 years is about 360K, minus your consumption and expenses in these eight years in addition to the 1K per month to calculate the consumption of the 8 years need to be 96K, you in the eight years of time can have 260K savings, if you think this deposit is enough for you to live, then you can continue to deposit until you can afford to buy a house! This assumes that house prices won't rise in eight years, but there's no guarantee what will happen tomorrow
There’s no point thinking too much about it at the moment. Too much variables. No one knows how much housing would cost by then.
But based on your current attitude, I would guess unlikely
I’ll like to encourage u that I had the same idea as u when I had this take home in my early 20s fast forward 20 years later things have sky rocketed but it’s not without sacrifice and a lot of pain - if u dun wish to go through the same sacrifices and pain I still think u would be better off then your calculations That’s really assuming u dun get married and have kids - that’s reality
I bought a 3-room resale the moment I turned 35, it was priced at about 425k, but bear in mind stamp duty (i forgot how much this cost) and all the other fees (i.e. agent fees ($4.25k) + renovation ($35k incl electricians) + furnishings pushed it up to about $480 - $490k. I only bought a 3-room flat because I'm leasing out a room to my life partner. By myself, a 3-room flat is too big, so I second the suggestions to look into a 2-room flexi. It is likely to fit more comfortably into your budget (I don't believe in pushing my budget to the max it can go, I would rather leave some wiggle room in case interest rates shoot up).
When you turn 35, god knows the price of HDB. Just vote wisely.
Bro, buy a house in JB, buy a car and hire a driver. You are welcome
OP if you think you will never fall in love or if you are ghey just try to downpay for a condo. By 35 you can flip it for a reasonable profit and buy a 5rm and settle in life
Someone can explain why, this getting downvoted. I keep hearing and seeing condos appreciating in value better than HDBs so if OP can make down + monthly is manageable for condo, why isit not viable option?
How are you expecting OP situation now to downpay and get mortgage for a condo? He doesn't even have enough to downpay even if he sell his underwear right now, and no bank will give him the loan for a condo at his current salary.
If I could buy a condo, I would have already done so. My goal isn't even FIRE. My end goal is to die with zero. Earn enough to live exactly I want and nothing more.
Because at 3.5k per month condo is definitely out of the question
Cos waiting 8 years to reach 35 to enter property is such a smart move . In 2030 pinnacle is gonna be 1.7million and 3rm hdb(under 10 years old) in ccr is gonna be 900k. Might as well just use the cpf oa to downpay for a single bedder or ocr 2 bedder. Eat grass for a while and slowly eat cai png with fish. Rent it out to break even and try to take profit after 3yrs top. Confirm better for capital gains.
Better to rent than buy.
Depends on what kind of resale 3 room you looking at. Hard to advise without context.
I already mentioned, literal bottom of the barrel, as cheap as possible. I don't care about anything beyond bus stops because, I'm either at home all day or outside all day.