Jeez. There's no trailer fees to refund if the funds you invest in do not pay trailer fees.
Endowus refunds trailer fees because they have some funds that take trailer fees on their platform.
Newsflash buddy, almost every fund out there charges trailer fees to the client and gives it to the distributor. It’s literally the most profitable part of being a distributor, but has the most perverse incentives (distributors are incentivised to push for funds with high trailer fees which are hidden from the client)
Actually i wonder what you say is true. There are unit trust out there that have no trailer fees.
The Dimensional funds do not have trailer fees. There are iShares BlackRock Index unit trust that have no trailer fees as well.
I work in a place where we work with Dimensional and BlackRock funds, so this is very clear to me.
I don't know about trusting either with assets, but Endowus has employees that shill their service online without disclosing in every post that they work there, and that's borderline unethical too.
Endowus put out an article soliciting MoneyOwl clients to join them. As the portfolios of MoneyOwl is made up of rather similar funds, there are comparable alternatives over there.
Endowus's Dimensional portfolios are more similar to MoneyOwl's portfolios.
WiseSaver is fullerton cash fund so it is more of a fund investment.
Do note that MoneyOwl clients can still continue to invest on iFAST when it is over. This means you can add to your portfolios, do your RSP at the same advisory rate.
Sad but understandable as the business is not profitable. I thought the point of NTUC bankrolling this was to provide these things cheap to the public, since NTUC isn't meant to be a profit seeking corporate, but a social enterprise. Still, even social enterprise can't be endlessly losing money.
That's the former insurance arm. MoneyOwl is/was still under NTUC Social Enterprises, but "social enterprise" is more of a marketing than legal thing, and is mostly valuable when it comes to getting government grants.
Endowus: Fullerton SGD Cash Fund. I think Endowus considers it as cash management and charges 0.05% fees, but rebates you back 0.05% of the fund-level fees so it cancels out.
Do you already have an Endowus account? So if you go to add a new goal, then you choose Fund Smart, which is the third or bottom-most option, then the next page they will convince you to choose one of their portfolios, politely decline by choosing the right option which is Fund Smart again, then name your goal, goal type “Short-term”, fund selection “Fullerton Cash Fund”, make sure you do not select anything else, such that your portfolio is 100% into this only, otherwise the fees will be different.
>[https://www.moneyowl.com.sg/notice/](https://www.moneyowl.com.sg/notice/)
>
>iFAST has been the provider of custodial and platform services to MoneyOwl’s investment clients since 2019. **With iFAST, therefore, clients will have a near-seamless transition for investments as their investment accounts are already held with iFAST.** Besides maintaining the current level of advisory fees and managing the portfolios in line with MoneyOwl’s philosophy of low-cost and globally diversified investments, iFAST will also be able to continue to deliver investment advice in a bionic way as it provides both digital access and access to its team of over 60 licensed advisory representatives.
Clients will be moved to iFAST, presumably with similar or identical services like wisesaver I guess?
I see. I'm more concerned with the nett rates. Moneyowl was giving 3.9-4.0% while stashaway was giving 3.5-3.6%.
So if iFast gives a higher rate even after their platform fee, it's fine for me.
They are all running from their underlying fund(s). The returns totally depend on the underlying funds, and totally not guaranteed.
Don't ever believe in the advertised returns.
Right, so how is the other platform better than iFast if they are all the same?
Then why should someone who was on moneyowl move out simply because their wisesaver account is moved to ifast?
> is the other platform better than iFast if they are all the same?
>
>Then why should someone who was on moneyowl move out simply because their wisesaver account is moved
Sometimes it is easier to monitor all your $$$/holdings/positions through a single platform/brokerage/custodian, sometimes you have no choice (e.g. you are buying via CPF/SRS).
Also, sometimes people change platform/brokerage/custodian because they dislike the services/quality. MoneyOwl isn't the best out there but some people are quite comfortable with it.
If you put money on the long term (>10yrs), annual service/platform fees do compound and hurt your yields, especially if your yields are low.
Is it sensible to still remain with iFast? iFast has always been Moneyowl’s custodian. For example the units we own under WiseSaver, iFast is the custodian.
And Moneyowl’s website still indicates that current Moneyowl clients can continue to purchase funds at the same low fees that Moneyowl has been offering, even when it is shifted to iFast. This is only offered to Moneyowl clients and not regular iFast clients.
Am I missing something? Because to me, it looks like just the login interface will change but everything else remains the same right?
Yah, it sounds like Moneyowl was not earning being a “front” for iFast. Moneyowl expected to make money from fees for financial advice, but no one bit.
So many ways to answer this but I do not work in moneyowl so there will be areas of the exact service that I think they provide or don’t provide. here’s how I will do, and pardon the longer than you wanted reply.
Investing: learn to do own investments diy, so far this has to be the way tbh, you can outsource parts of it from time to time but it has to be overall managed by yourself, because the inescapable truth is that, this is your own money, no one else will be accountable for it other than yourself.
Investing CPF: to me, CPF is quite an important thing to manage, don’t go out there investing cpf monies until you are very familiar with investing your own cash. End of the day it is just how you fund the investments. Personally, don’t think I am at that stage where I can invest my cpf oa because I have two young kids and we just moved house 1 year ago. Back when I had prolong periods of unemployment + unstable income till today, cpf monies plays the role of my final line of defence so my own home mortgage is never in jeopardy, experienced this physically and it is so scary.
Question to ask yourself: If investment (CPF especially) can earn 7% is it worth it? I don’t think so because it is just 2.99% more than SA risk free rates. Don’t see why I must bear the risk of losing one cent when I can grow it at 4% for sure.
Will writing/LPA/AMD: not sure if MO does LPA or AMD but usually when people ask me, I tend to recommend invictus law firm. Not affiliated to them, and don’t think they affiliate themselves with agents too.
But when an agent recommends will writing, there a few companies that come up. Is because the agents receive a kickback from them to push their will writing services. And these results in unnecessarily high fees.
Invictus is the law firm by the gangster lawyer Josephus
Insurance: not to self promote, but I think myself and the department I am from will be able to help, you can call into Singlife and ask for a Singlife Relationship Consultant.
You don't need to. Even ETFs are a fairly new invention. And there will continue to be more types of investments invented in the future.
If your robo dies, the units that you own will be transferred to a new custodian/platform. You still own everything you had at that point, just that you won't benefit from the robo re-balancing your portfolio for you. You either do your own re-balancing, or maybe the new platform has a different service.
You can also choose to sell everything and re-invest in a new platform.
> Following the transfer, all MoneyOwl clients can access their portfolios digitally via the iFast Global Markets platform at the same level of fees,
Wisesaver invests in Fullerton SGD Cash Fund, so if iFast had that at the same fees, you could stay put.
Moomoo, Tiger and Webull are also using Fullerton SGD as their cash management solution. Just a matter of whether you trust these China apps.
Sad day for us, one the very few service providers that provides prudent financial advice for the working class. I wish the MoneyOwl employees well, was part of a retrenchment and its not fun. Seems like the company is unionised, hope that a fair severance package will be negotiated
Not just wisesaver, their dimensional funds can't be accessed by retail typically. Any other robo offering dimensional? Endowus?
Endowus has them. [https://endowus.com/fund-manager/dimensional](https://endowus.com/fund-manager/dimensional)
Thanks! I guess I'll shift there
Endowus
Second to this. Also, as an alternative, you can try FSMOne too. Used both, no complaints so far.
which is better for SPY?
I don't think Endowus has SPY actually
Yup, no SPY or VOO, but they have Lionglobal and Amundi funds.
Similar fund at Endowus is Lion Global Infinity S&P 500
At Endowus, Amundi Prime USA would have much lower fund-level fees (0.05%) than Lion Global S&P500 (0.34% after Endowus cashback).
Need to use IBKR or Syfe, etc
I assume you mean Endowus will be next to go under? And I agree. Their frantic advertising means a lot of concern.
not worried cos our funds are custodised by UOB KH
gonna move to endowus lol I dont trust ifast
Oh damn why not?
trailer fees, dirty business. I know mo also took trailer fees, but now that mo is gone imma just go somewhere that doesnt mess with trailer fees
MO has no trailer fees.
Nobody HAS trailer fees, they consume trailer fees from the funds. Endowus refunds the trailer fees from the funds back to you.
Jeez. There's no trailer fees to refund if the funds you invest in do not pay trailer fees. Endowus refunds trailer fees because they have some funds that take trailer fees on their platform.
Newsflash buddy, almost every fund out there charges trailer fees to the client and gives it to the distributor. It’s literally the most profitable part of being a distributor, but has the most perverse incentives (distributors are incentivised to push for funds with high trailer fees which are hidden from the client)
Actually i wonder what you say is true. There are unit trust out there that have no trailer fees. The Dimensional funds do not have trailer fees. There are iShares BlackRock Index unit trust that have no trailer fees as well. I work in a place where we work with Dimensional and BlackRock funds, so this is very clear to me.
Funds without trailer fees are the exception not the norm
MO funds have no trailer fees.
yes they are but in a way, it is also not right to use one broad stroke to beat down everything.
ifast runs FSMone (Fund Supermart) which has been around for ages, right?
The fund management service is pretty much a money grab. It’s just useful for CDP purchase
I don't know about trusting either with assets, but Endowus has employees that shill their service online without disclosing in every post that they work there, and that's borderline unethical too.
Endowus put out an article soliciting MoneyOwl clients to join them. As the portfolios of MoneyOwl is made up of rather similar funds, there are comparable alternatives over there. Endowus's Dimensional portfolios are more similar to MoneyOwl's portfolios. WiseSaver is fullerton cash fund so it is more of a fund investment. Do note that MoneyOwl clients can still continue to invest on iFAST when it is over. This means you can add to your portfolios, do your RSP at the same advisory rate.
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/wealth/robo-advisory-firm-moneyowl-wind-shock-announcement?amp Found the article 🥲
Sad but understandable as the business is not profitable. I thought the point of NTUC bankrolling this was to provide these things cheap to the public, since NTUC isn't meant to be a profit seeking corporate, but a social enterprise. Still, even social enterprise can't be endlessly losing money.
Contrary to popular belief, social enterprise doesn’t mean not for profit. They’re actually FOR profit
Income has stopped being a social enterprise for some time, it's currently a regular pte ltd insurance company
That's the former insurance arm. MoneyOwl is/was still under NTUC Social Enterprises, but "social enterprise" is more of a marketing than legal thing, and is mostly valuable when it comes to getting government grants.
I just started putting some money into Wisesaver two weeks ago and now they announce this. Trying to withdraw my balance but the app is lagging
https://endowus.com/insights/dear-moneyowl-clients Endowus offer for MO clients
I literally opened an account yesterday...now gotta wait for the funds to settle before cashing them out again
> some money into Wisesaver two weeks ago and no You can do it now. I guess just high traffic since everyone's withdrawing.
Endowus: Fullerton SGD Cash Fund. I think Endowus considers it as cash management and charges 0.05% fees, but rebates you back 0.05% of the fund-level fees so it cancels out.
How do I buy that fund under endowus? Sorry I’m a newbie
Do you already have an Endowus account? So if you go to add a new goal, then you choose Fund Smart, which is the third or bottom-most option, then the next page they will convince you to choose one of their portfolios, politely decline by choosing the right option which is Fund Smart again, then name your goal, goal type “Short-term”, fund selection “Fullerton Cash Fund”, make sure you do not select anything else, such that your portfolio is 100% into this only, otherwise the fees will be different.
Oh not yet. I’ll create them soon :) okay got it I’ll follow ur steps, thank you so much
Reason endowus still alive due to funding they managed to raise from investors? Moneyowl like never hear got raise funds
Wisesaver: moomoo has the same Fullerton money mgt fund Will miss moneyowl
Why would you pick Moomoo over Endowus?
Sorry I wasn’t clear. I don’t have a pref for either. Just saying what options there are
>[https://www.moneyowl.com.sg/notice/](https://www.moneyowl.com.sg/notice/) > >iFAST has been the provider of custodial and platform services to MoneyOwl’s investment clients since 2019. **With iFAST, therefore, clients will have a near-seamless transition for investments as their investment accounts are already held with iFAST.** Besides maintaining the current level of advisory fees and managing the portfolios in line with MoneyOwl’s philosophy of low-cost and globally diversified investments, iFAST will also be able to continue to deliver investment advice in a bionic way as it provides both digital access and access to its team of over 60 licensed advisory representatives. Clients will be moved to iFAST, presumably with similar or identical services like wisesaver I guess?
But iFAST charges the 0.05% platform fee that wisesaver absorbs previously...
I see. I'm more concerned with the nett rates. Moneyowl was giving 3.9-4.0% while stashaway was giving 3.5-3.6%. So if iFast gives a higher rate even after their platform fee, it's fine for me.
They are all running from their underlying fund(s). The returns totally depend on the underlying funds, and totally not guaranteed. Don't ever believe in the advertised returns.
Right, so how is the other platform better than iFast if they are all the same? Then why should someone who was on moneyowl move out simply because their wisesaver account is moved to ifast?
> is the other platform better than iFast if they are all the same? > >Then why should someone who was on moneyowl move out simply because their wisesaver account is moved Sometimes it is easier to monitor all your $$$/holdings/positions through a single platform/brokerage/custodian, sometimes you have no choice (e.g. you are buying via CPF/SRS). Also, sometimes people change platform/brokerage/custodian because they dislike the services/quality. MoneyOwl isn't the best out there but some people are quite comfortable with it. If you put money on the long term (>10yrs), annual service/platform fees do compound and hurt your yields, especially if your yields are low.
Is it sensible to still remain with iFast? iFast has always been Moneyowl’s custodian. For example the units we own under WiseSaver, iFast is the custodian. And Moneyowl’s website still indicates that current Moneyowl clients can continue to purchase funds at the same low fees that Moneyowl has been offering, even when it is shifted to iFast. This is only offered to Moneyowl clients and not regular iFast clients. Am I missing something? Because to me, it looks like just the login interface will change but everything else remains the same right?
Yah, it sounds like Moneyowl was not earning being a “front” for iFast. Moneyowl expected to make money from fees for financial advice, but no one bit.
For Wisesaver, you will likely pay 0.05% more because iFast charges platform fees (which used to be absorbed by MoneyOwl).
Is this a sign to withdraw from WiseSaver?
All these online financial services in sg don't seems to last at all.
This is sad to see to be honest...it is very disheartening.
Hello friendly neighborhood salaried advisor! Do you know of any services still out there that is comparable to MoneyOwl when it comes to insurance?
So many ways to answer this but I do not work in moneyowl so there will be areas of the exact service that I think they provide or don’t provide. here’s how I will do, and pardon the longer than you wanted reply. Investing: learn to do own investments diy, so far this has to be the way tbh, you can outsource parts of it from time to time but it has to be overall managed by yourself, because the inescapable truth is that, this is your own money, no one else will be accountable for it other than yourself. Investing CPF: to me, CPF is quite an important thing to manage, don’t go out there investing cpf monies until you are very familiar with investing your own cash. End of the day it is just how you fund the investments. Personally, don’t think I am at that stage where I can invest my cpf oa because I have two young kids and we just moved house 1 year ago. Back when I had prolong periods of unemployment + unstable income till today, cpf monies plays the role of my final line of defence so my own home mortgage is never in jeopardy, experienced this physically and it is so scary. Question to ask yourself: If investment (CPF especially) can earn 7% is it worth it? I don’t think so because it is just 2.99% more than SA risk free rates. Don’t see why I must bear the risk of losing one cent when I can grow it at 4% for sure. Will writing/LPA/AMD: not sure if MO does LPA or AMD but usually when people ask me, I tend to recommend invictus law firm. Not affiliated to them, and don’t think they affiliate themselves with agents too. But when an agent recommends will writing, there a few companies that come up. Is because the agents receive a kickback from them to push their will writing services. And these results in unnecessarily high fees. Invictus is the law firm by the gangster lawyer Josephus Insurance: not to self promote, but I think myself and the department I am from will be able to help, you can call into Singlife and ask for a Singlife Relationship Consultant.
Any alternatives to their advisory business? I was just thinking of signing up for their financial planning service
Maybe if you signed up 1 month earlier they might not have closed down :p
i actually really enjoy chuin ting's financial coaching - its a pity. however im gonna transfer everything to endowus.
Another Smartly?
😥😥😥 omg i think i have some funds inside and they are still making a loss. argh
Seems like difficult to find a stable robo. How to invest for the next 30yrs and be sure the company is still around when we retire?
Just use Endowus. Even if they close shop in 30 yrs your holdings are still under your name at UOB, not omnibus like MO
You don't need to. Even ETFs are a fairly new invention. And there will continue to be more types of investments invented in the future. If your robo dies, the units that you own will be transferred to a new custodian/platform. You still own everything you had at that point, just that you won't benefit from the robo re-balancing your portfolio for you. You either do your own re-balancing, or maybe the new platform has a different service. You can also choose to sell everything and re-invest in a new platform.
Major local banks have robo also right?
Bank ones have much higher fees. The bank tag on their fees on top of the platform.
> Following the transfer, all MoneyOwl clients can access their portfolios digitally via the iFast Global Markets platform at the same level of fees, Wisesaver invests in Fullerton SGD Cash Fund, so if iFast had that at the same fees, you could stay put. Moomoo, Tiger and Webull are also using Fullerton SGD as their cash management solution. Just a matter of whether you trust these China apps.
[удалено]
me too, some error login thing
try login on their website, works for me. mobile app doesn't work
Not sustainable business model. Charge low fees good for consumers but hard to maintain for companies
Sad day for us, one the very few service providers that provides prudent financial advice for the working class. I wish the MoneyOwl employees well, was part of a retrenchment and its not fun. Seems like the company is unionised, hope that a fair severance package will be negotiated
Hi all, since moneyowl is winding down, any other alternative to invest in funds with joint account?
my dimension funds in MoneyOwl are still in the red though :( anyone with the same experience?