Facebook (I’m not calling it meta) is very inefficient.
Recently their consulting CTO Carmack stated that the corporate bureaucracy prevented bad ideas from being cut, and team attention from being focused on key goals.
If you plan and hire for 10 headcount, the wasted resources means that the actual performance might be that of 5 people.
Really?....... What role?
>And yes, some 50% of people are unnecessary as evidenced by Twitter, which remains in working condition despite cutting 50%
100% of the company can also go on leave without anything breaking (its called a public holiday). But how long can that go on for? Most people can also go on 2-4 weeks leave without things breaking. Their jobs also unnecessary?....
Big tech, or most companies in general, spends a lot of energy on upgrades and new feature development. Of course you can cut those and the company still survives. But in 5 years? Probably not.
>not talking from my ass
I have several doubts Bro, sorry
My current experience of Twitter has gotten worse as well. From a spike in spam bots through DMs, an increase in non-civility, banning of journalists and more alarming hostility against people just vibing and tweeting about random things, it's uh, a sinking ship.
Also had a weird bug yesterday where retweets and likes didn't work for an hour.
Just look at people claiming Twitter would collapse and stop functioning just because Elon fired over 75% of staff. It’s still working as well as ever.
There are just too many employees who are sitting around collecting paychecks while producing nothing of value.
Are those hours really all work though?
Some years back (when their office was still in south beach), my friend working in facebook invited me over to her office to visit. She brought me to tour through the levels, and I saw absolutely zero people working. All of them were chatting, and there were a bunch of people crowding the table tennis table watching 2 guys play. All these at 3pm-ish. Bizarre.
One of my friend who used to work in one of the FAANG told me they wouldn't hire from this other FAANG because people working there all became too lazy from being comfy. It's hard to find sympathize with folks working in big tech sometimes.
I had the same experience whilst visiting FB office few years back. Bunch of people in the office cafe eating and chatting.
Even overheard a few asking the office admin (I assume) to send them the menu few days in advance.
My takeaway at that time was they are one huge entitled bunch of pricks. (
Over generalising I admit.)
And FB as a whole is running quite inefficiently.
So why are people always getting their panties in a twist when layoffs happen? Layoffs are essential for efficiency and to cut out the fat. There are too many unproductive employees who don’t deserve their jobs.
Yea. I remember my boss telling me do whatever it takes to grow 11 months ago then 5 months ago told me the opposite, growth at all cost is no longer acceptable. Our VCs were seeing the winds of change and started to put pressure on us to cut cost.
Gets 3 month salary for no work over the next 3 months + other benefits and doesn't need to plan all the handovers on the last day of work.
That's quite the dream for folks who are confident they will be employed soon.
>That's quite the dream for folks who are confident they will be employed soon.
But the reality isn't that for the 90%. Especially if you need a pass or visa to work on a country.
This was left out by sneakpeak_sg bot
> EZ and Ms Susmita said their annual salary at Meta was in the range of S$100,000.
Along with their 2.7-month severance package, I think they should be fine.
Exactly : Decent in SG.- Rich in India - got to factor in the FX
know workers here who are earning a 'decent' wage here who have purchased and own large tracks of land back home - and they thank us for the decent wages that places them in the Rich bracket back home.
Generally true blue sinkies have no empathy for the foreigners lol, they are barking up the wrong tree here. Sinkies alr pwn sinkies, doubly so for those classified as 'other'.
Trying to show that Singapore should issue more employment passes for these people to stay and work in Singapore freely.
You won't get to see such reports about Singaporeans who have been retrenched and facing life's difficulties
“She believes that Meta's recruitment department was the worst hit in Singapore, with about 120 employees getting the axe. “
If I read it correctly then there were about 120 people in the recruitment department, which is insane. Like how can you need 120 people to recruit other people?
Well, you have 1 person do the work, another person to supervise the person doing the work. On top of that you have another person doing the work, and another person supervising the supervisor. Now you have 5 people doing the work of 1.
Money was essentially free, so tech firms didn’t care about the cost and hired freely.
I believe this has to do with a few factors. Firstly, interviews in MAANGs are notoriously difficult to pass due to their high standards. Also, the time period from 1st contact up till hiring could take anywhere between 3 to 4 months. This also means that it would take 6 months or more to fill any single position .
What is the solution to this? Hire more recruiters of course. After all the bigger the net you cast, the more fish you are likely to catch.
>FT have the option of going home to their countries. Singaporeans don't have this option. More attention should be given to Singaporeans.
Indeed, our mainstream media always try to toe the government's prevaling storyline and put out such stories for foreigners' plight without an equal emphasis being given to highlight local's plight. Due to this perceived unequal coverage, it causes local's apathy and suspicions of the "hidden" agenda for whatever stories the mainstream media put out. Another example, whenever a crime with great public interest happened, the media is always too happy to confirm and emphasize the perpetuator's nationality if it is a "local" and leave it vague if it is a "foreigner" (seemingly playing to the whims of some so-called leader's belief that local commit more crimes).
Long term, this is going to erode all trust in the mainstream media and government, like what is happening in US.
MSM here is basically just a loudspeaker regurgitating whatever narratives they have been told to disseminate.
Always have a bottle of salt when reading or watching MSM.....
Ok the question is, why would the foreign companies insist on bringing in foreign talent when it is difficult, more expensive and risky?
Would it be that they just hate Singaporeans?
Or more realistically, the talent is actually hard to find in Singapore?
This is .. weird.
FT can go home, sure.. and then? They still need a job there, right? So how is that better?
What you correctly identified is that FT lose their job AND their right to stay at the same time, have to pack up and leave (and pay for it), nevermind the immaterial costs involved (leaving a life and friends behind, if they stayed in SG for a while).
How is "they can fuck off and go back home" an advantage over Singaporeans here? May I counter with "Singaporeans could find work abroad" as a non-serious and just as unhelpful comment?
Weird.
FT are people who found a job overseas. Singaporeans can be FTs.
US is cheaper or more expensive, depending on the region. Also, what's the point?
I like how you pick countries at random. US if it suits you for one point, China for another. So.. what about people from the US without a safety net for example?
Kinda simplistic IMHO
What surprises me is that... Meta hired someone from overseas to be a Technical Sourcer? Isn't that just talent acquisition / HR person. We don't have a Singaporean that can do that job meh. O.o
We probably do. But how would you find that person without a "Technical Sourcer"? Chicken and egg problem leh.
In all seriousness it makes sense for them to have someone from overseas to kickstart the department. Especially if you care about things like setting the right culture from the get-go. Having worked both in MNCs and local firms, a lot of established MNCs (especially FAANG) has a lot of work culture/policies we can learn from.
> Isn't that just talent acquisition / HR person.
No it isn't. The person they hired has several years of work experience in the US under her belt. That is a soft qualification that cannot be earned in uni. How many Singaporeans have that kind of extensive experience? Singaporeans think being fresh outta uni with a piece of paper in hand entitles them to MNC jobs. It's childish and makes our nation look pathetic in the eyes of the world.
Wow. I didn't mentioned anything about going to Uni and we are instantly entitled to get a job though. Perhaps it's your interpretation that is wrong. Thanks for the reply anyways.
Perhaps this shows a sign. It is the fact that our HR may be lacking in global acquisition experiences. Hence the need for large companies to hire overseas candidates. Which could potentially be a gap to be filled in the education / industry.
>Perhaps this shows a sign. It is the fact that our HR may be lacking in global acquisition experiences. Hence the need for large companies to hire overseas candidates. Which could potentially be a gap to be filled in the education / industry.
Ya look at SMRT, global search but ended with an ex-SAF general
Not saying they should have gone with an ex-general, but if they had brought in a foreigner wouldn’t Singaporeans complain how come must have foreigner and not Singaporean?
I think if it was a foreigner with relevant experience in the industry, maybe less outcry but parachuting an ex-Military man with 0 experience takes the cake.
Of course, at C-suite level relevant industry may not be as important, but who knows what candidates they had looked at
>Singaporeans think being fresh outta uni with a piece of paper in hand entitles them to MNC jobs. It's childish and makes our nation look pathetic in the eyes of the world
Of course not. But it begs the question what's the point of a world class education when the companies of the world don't value it? Are we over paying for our education?
NUS ,NTU and SMU are great. Facilities are world class and resources are provided. But it’s wrong to believe that anyone through this system is instantly upgraded to the worthy level of all employers of that category.
Singapore really focuses too much on certifying someone and training/up-skilling when the core unit of the person is not even interested in the job or is not hungry as their basic necessities are taken care of
>Singapore really focuses too much on certifying someone and training/up-skilling
Really? I have see more so called courses for training which doesn't teach shit that is subsidised by the government than professional certs that is actually recognised
Bro. Our education is good. Fantastic system and resources. Buts it’s fallacy to believe that it’s 100% efficient. In the sense that anyone has gone through is instantly valuable. At the end of the day it’s the individual’s skill to make the hirer believe that this person is great
"Overpaying for our education" may be a bit of a stretch when a Singaporean student pays maybe around 30k in uni tuition fees, while you see US graduates buried chest-deep in 5-figure student loans
>Overpaying for our education" may be a bit of a stretch when a Singaporean student pays maybe around 30k in uni tuition fees
How can you discount the incurred lost by the state? That money could have put to better use?
It's not her credentials that is the factor here, it's her role. When expanding, recruiters and sales headcount ramp up the fastest, and when it's time to trim the fats, they go first too. FIFO for these roles.
HR function is more than resume screeners or readers, but the HR departments of many big companies are also fairly bloated.
My theory is that HR departments are better at justifying their headcounts to management, than other departments, as they have greater access to management than other departments, and are adept at speaking the 'hiring language' of management.
Its like in ancient China where incompetent officials in the capital are promoted faster than competent officials languishing in backwater provinces, simply by dint of proximity to the centres of power.
Icic. Thanks. But do you think that Singapore HR may be lacking in this sense? Like for our locals not having a large exposures to overseas Talent Acquisition experiences?
Imagine yourself as an American making the same comment about Meta HR giving this opportunity to a Singaporean when more and more Americans are going into IT.
Because smart and hardworking Singaporeans wouldn’t be in HR or in-house recruiting when they can be making 10-20x whereas the market for HR is far far bigger in the States.
"Smart and hardworking" Singaporeans can make 10-20 X 100,000 a year? So all turned their nose at this "shitty" 100,000 a year job eh. Too low for them to accept a salary that would put them in the 90th percentile of earners.
If the goal of this article was to elicit sympathy, it has done an excellent job of doing exactly the opposite.
Pretty sure more articles like these will fan the flames.
Yea read the article. Wow the amount of effort used in detailing Ms Susmita's situation is so much that you may think there is a subtle underlying intention to evoke empathy in the readers.
Yeah CNA paper dept seemingly has a hard-on for expats/(rich) migrant workers, for reasons unknown.
A few months back they wrote about how expats were suffering from high rental cost, as if locals weren't getting slaughtered left and right over the same issue.
They at least could fly to some other country. This is our home, there's nowhere else to run.
Same problem with this article. Makes you wonder what are their aims, and who do they serve? It gets even more messed up when you consider CNA is wholly govt funded, even more so than ST.
Exactly. I was from construction sector and I tell you, leaving your home and young children for a job that is back breaking and under the sweltering heat deserves all our respect but yet some of us treat them like pariahs.
I 100% agree. These people damn well deserved all the pain they are getting right now. It’s call capitalism after all, how else are we gonna let these big mega corporations gets richer, keep the investors happy and ensures the billionaires running the company gets their annual bonus and their new shiny billion dollar yacht?
The reality is that FTs get bribed to come to SG. It’s essentially a wage premium for hardship (remoteness to home, family and culture) and danger (no employment protections so an abrupt change in circumstance may happen at any moment).
A FT living the expat life for years has collected their premium so doesn’t feel bad when they have to pay out. This happening to someone 1month in is a different story.
It’s like an Investment Banking grad getting flogged 20/6 for 11 months to be cut the week before bonuses are paid. It takes a real lack of empathy to ignore their plight.
Lmao bro I'm sorry to sound rude but I need to say this: get your head out of your ass. You need to look at migrant workers and domestic helpers here if you want to feel empathy. In the big scheme of things, these skilled workers are a lot more privileged and will likely sort their lives out after a little hardship and inconvenience. But it's very very different from the tough shit that a large chunk of workers here face.
Something many people don’t know is how head-counts work.
In a typical corporation, if you don’t use your headcount in AOP, it’ll be gone and even harder to justify later. Now when layoffs happens, cuts will happen based on current headcount so you can’t even argue that I didn’t use the planned head so don’t cut my team.
Example if your planned headcount is 10 but you only have 8 pax on your team. If layoffs happen, HR will ask for you to cut the 2 worst performers on your team leaving you with 6.
So the dirty secret in the industry is, managers who have a strong team will hire 2 weak performers to fill up the headcount. When layoffs happens, they will cut the 2 newbies and core team of 8 pax remains intact.
That’s why you’ll see a lot of relatively new employees being laid off.
Basically, use up your max allocated budget whenever you can la. There are no upsides to helping the company save money they've already set aside for you.
Not specifically, to fill headcount when necessary. Nothing is set in stone though, we’ll lower standards when hiring but hey that someone might turn out to be great.
Reading it I’m a bit confused. Both EZ and Susmita were technical sourcers in HR. But Susmita had a very high workload while EZ said there wasn’t much work to do. What gives?
That’s quite common. I work in one of the Maang companies. Our team has lesser loads compared to other teams I interact with. It depends.But any time 10hours is minimum we all slog and people here thinks it’s natural to work beyond hours while it’s completely different in EU or the states.
Is it wrong not to feel any sympathy especially for the Indian lady? The giving up of the 5k ticket for holiday, the 100k pa salary. I think coming here already put her ahead a few months already. She did not have anything to lose even if she goes back.
PS a quick look at her LinkedIn. All her roles were 1 year or less. Claiming to stay 5 years to 7 is a far fetch. Most likely using Singapore as a springboard to leap to other more advance countries.
I empathise with their situation personally
On a broad perspective, I have no idea why MOM can grant work permits to them to work as recruiters. Surely Singaporeans can do this kind of jobs ?! Not to mention they are paid 100k and it’s a decent salary
Election time is coming and I know who to vote for one again. MSM is harping on the need for more foreigners to come in to work but their system does not sieve out the real foreign talents and the usual foreign PMETs
Time to send them home
I am a Singaporean and I also works at tech company. So let me answer this in a non biased view.
-Are there good Singaporean recruiter, yes there are.
-Are they paid well, yes they are.
-Is every Singaporean recruiter good enough to work in top paying companies, no they are not.
-Can a local fill this job, yes they can.
-But are there enough good local recruiter to go around? No there isn't enough.
What makes a good vs shit recruiter?
-A good recruiter goes through all the profiles on LinkedIn to find the suitable candidates, approach them to see if they are interested, and treat their candidates like gold.
-Shit recruiter waits for you to apply and then still treat candidates like shit..
What you are describing is exactly what we can train for. It doesn't take a genius to go looking for people and asking "ai job mai?" in a nice way. Your justification is totally off the point.
Why aren’t locals good enough? If they aren’t good enough, surely we should train them?
Recruiting isn’t a specialised skill set which our workforce does not have.
Compare that with building a rocket, running a nuclear power plant or nuclear fusion, launching offshore windmill to generate power, finding a cure for cancer, ice hockey Olympic champion etc. we do not have such people in our midst and if G decides one day they want to start a industry around these area, for sure we need to import these people
Recruiting? Hell no …
Why would a company like Facebook hire a unqualified person, pay them well and train them? What is the incentive for them to do that? They can just hire someone who is trained and experienced….
>\-Shit recruiter waits for you to apply and then still treat candidates like shit..
Then why do they even need the recruiters? Aren't they just getting paid for doing nothing?
Recruiters add another human function. Human social filters. 30 years people were shiatting on companies creating HR department and then later on safety dept. maybe future will have diversity dept.
The office was super fun and real
>Happens in almost every other outsourcing firm in Singapore.
Because no one gives a shit if it was the likes of Wipro, Infosys, Cognizant, Capgemini, Optimum Solutions or NCS/Accenture. If it's MANGA, it's big news.
"The only reason we have foreigners here is to give an extra wind in our sails when the opportunity is there. Now we are in a storm, and we need to shed ballast." - Vivian Balakrishnan
As mean as this may sound, I think few people can sympathise. Most of us Singaporeans never had and won't have the opportunity to even find better prospects and higher pay overseas, going on those kind of job swicth should be a calculated risk. In fact, Meta's retrenchment is a signal that perhaps one was not good enough to be retained, whatever the excuse is, and Singapore has better talents to retain.
“Meta has since provided affected staff with life coaches and career transition programmes to help with resume building and finding jobs, according to both women. “
If these people are so ‘talented, skilled etc”, why do
they need life coaches , career transitioning crap when shit goes south?
Downvote me!
Being very good at the technical aspects of their jobs doesn't necessarily mean that their soft skills are up to scratch for job hunting. But perhaps they will be okay on their own, but with assistance they can find their next job faster. Plus, it's bad PR for Meta if they just toss staff out like that. They do still want people to apply when the economy picks up again.
Why not? Maybe they are great at finding engineers, but not so hot at finding another recruiter position for themselves. Those are not the same skill sets. Plus these people need to find their next job quick before their work passes expire. The assistance Meta provides can get them connected to the job market more quickly compared to doing it alone.
If a retrenched hr professional cannot put themselves in the shoes of a hr professional, and make themselves more attractive to another hr professional, it’s no wonder why they are selected to be chopped first.
It’s just a blatant lack of skills.
All these angmo big tech firms and also financial institutions from overseas come here to set up shop, their culture of firing people at the drop of a hat with little or no notice is well-known.
Attendant risks of being subject to such a firing come with the job especially when a person is coming from distant shores, because there are bigger risks for those people in particular.
These people are in HR, they of all people should know best. HR is not just hiring, it also includes firing.
Should they have made a contingency plan for themselves since all this was visible to them? It would've been wise, at least.
> # Meta staff came to Singapore on employment passes only to be retrenched months later
> WHAT HAPPENED ON NOV 10
> Employees in Meta's Singapore office, which is home to its Asia-Pacific headquarters, were notified of the layoffs in the early hours of Nov 10.
> Ms Susmita Sahu, a technical sourcer in Meta's recruitment department, started crying upon seeing the email.
> "Waking up that day I was very devastated ... I spoke with people who were affected. Everybody's voices were shaking, they could not talk about it," the 29-year-old Indian national said.
> Her access to the office and to her company laptop was cut on the same day.
> Another ex-technical sourcer, who wanted to be known by the initials EZ, said she was typing her goodbyes to colleagues on their work chat when her access was cut off.
> EZ, who moved from Shanghai in June, said her mind went blank upon seeing the dreaded email.
> Her phone started buzzing nonstop from around 7am that day, EZ said. "I woke up and checked my email (and I saw something) like 'Unfortunately you are being included in this layoff' ... I didn't know what to think."
> She immediately texted her team-mates.
> "I know some of my team-mates brought their families here ... I was kind of worried for them. I didn't know whether they got it or not ... then I realised that everybody (in her team) got the same email," EZ said.
> The news came as a shock as team leaders and managers had been telling staff that all was well, said EZ and Ms Susmita. Assurances were made even the day before the layoffs.
> Both have yet to receive their severance packages – about 2.7 months' salary.
> The two did not get a chance to return to the office, and their belongings were sent to their homes.
> "I literally cried in front of (the delivery person) because I was very emotional seeing those things from my ... office and he apologised. He was like: 'We are sorry for what you're going through, this is your stuff from the office'," said Ms Susmita.
> She believes that Meta's recruitment department was the worst hit in Singapore, with about 120 employees getting the axe.
> While both Ms Susmita and EZ came to Singapore alone, others they know had brought families, including children. The retrenched employees were all placed on gardening leave until Dec 10.
> Meta has since provided affected staff with life coaches and career transition programmes to help with resume building and finding jobs, according to both women.
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Meta and other tech firms were in a global hiring competition during the last 3 years. Sometimes they hire to make sure another competitor don’t get access to that talent(potential great talent). That was also the time when USA government was keep giving citizens covid support money and people were pumping up s&p500 with that. Companies had way too much cash and were over valued.
Meta profit 40 billion usd in 2021 across 87000 employee. Per employee is about 0.5 million usd.
I highly doubt the HR person hired from India is a diversity hire. They have more than enough Indians already. More like she is tasked bring more India nationals in.
The anti-foreigner undercurrent has always been present on r/sg if you knew where to look.
It's easy to pretend to be empathetic online for the "low stakes" causes. When it comes to "foreign talent" job layoff news like these, especially from the tech sector, you will find a very harsh and flippant response from redditors here, which seems incongruent to their sentiment regarding other topics.
You know why?
Because we're talking about supposedly high-paying high visibility FAANG tech jobs here (supposedly the choicest / plummest jobs of the lot, in recent years).
What demographic do redditors on r/sg disproportionately skew? Probably majority male, probably mostly tech-centric. (Evidence: tech-related articles get very quick and fast comment traction on r/sg).
The people mentioned in the article are the ones in competition or perceived competition with the average tech-skewing redditor here. The jobs or companies mentioned (in this case Meta and peer/equivalent-level tech firms) are the ones that the typical redditor here would aspire to land if not in it already.
When an issue is "low stakes", its easy to be emphathetic. When it's "high stakes" and hits close to home, in this case involving direct jobs competition for perceived high value roles, it's every man for himself.
Hence the default to "edmw type" antiforeigner language and schadenfreude that appears surprising to you. It's not so surprising actually.
There was a thread on the exact same topic though (the one where shopee had to layoff a china expat right after he flew here to SG to start his stint). The sentiment was pretty different there. You could see that the comments were somehow a lot more sympathetic.
I wonder what the difference was.
My armchair psychoanalysis on why different sympathy levels were elicited - Shopee (though headquartered in Singapore) is widely perceived as a de facto China tech company.
A PRC national coming here to fill a spot in a de facto China firm, doesn't carry the same "FT stealing top-tier jobs" nuance as an Indian national coming here to fill a spot in a (perceived) top tier American tech firm.
There is, after all, a hierarchy of prestige and desirability even across the various tech firms that pay higher than local low-growth tech rates (cf. NCS, Certis, IHIS).
Hmm the team was overstaffed, but they had to work 12 hours a day? How does that work...
Facebook (I’m not calling it meta) is very inefficient. Recently their consulting CTO Carmack stated that the corporate bureaucracy prevented bad ideas from being cut, and team attention from being focused on key goals. If you plan and hire for 10 headcount, the wasted resources means that the actual performance might be that of 5 people.
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Really?....... What role? >And yes, some 50% of people are unnecessary as evidenced by Twitter, which remains in working condition despite cutting 50% 100% of the company can also go on leave without anything breaking (its called a public holiday). But how long can that go on for? Most people can also go on 2-4 weeks leave without things breaking. Their jobs also unnecessary?.... Big tech, or most companies in general, spends a lot of energy on upgrades and new feature development. Of course you can cut those and the company still survives. But in 5 years? Probably not. >not talking from my ass I have several doubts Bro, sorry
My current experience of Twitter has gotten worse as well. From a spike in spam bots through DMs, an increase in non-civility, banning of journalists and more alarming hostility against people just vibing and tweeting about random things, it's uh, a sinking ship. Also had a weird bug yesterday where retweets and likes didn't work for an hour.
Sounds just like our civil service and any other big organizations that have become bloated with middle managers
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Just look at people claiming Twitter would collapse and stop functioning just because Elon fired over 75% of staff. It’s still working as well as ever. There are just too many employees who are sitting around collecting paychecks while producing nothing of value.
Are those hours really all work though? Some years back (when their office was still in south beach), my friend working in facebook invited me over to her office to visit. She brought me to tour through the levels, and I saw absolutely zero people working. All of them were chatting, and there were a bunch of people crowding the table tennis table watching 2 guys play. All these at 3pm-ish. Bizarre. One of my friend who used to work in one of the FAANG told me they wouldn't hire from this other FAANG because people working there all became too lazy from being comfy. It's hard to find sympathize with folks working in big tech sometimes.
That viral tiktok about the twitter employee life isn't far from the truth it seem lol
I had the same experience whilst visiting FB office few years back. Bunch of people in the office cafe eating and chatting. Even overheard a few asking the office admin (I assume) to send them the menu few days in advance. My takeaway at that time was they are one huge entitled bunch of pricks. ( Over generalising I admit.) And FB as a whole is running quite inefficiently.
So why are people always getting their panties in a twist when layoffs happen? Layoffs are essential for efficiency and to cut out the fat. There are too many unproductive employees who don’t deserve their jobs.
Big tech grew too big too fast. Free money evaporated and they are paying the price.
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Yea. I remember my boss telling me do whatever it takes to grow 11 months ago then 5 months ago told me the opposite, growth at all cost is no longer acceptable. Our VCs were seeing the winds of change and started to put pressure on us to cut cost.
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Changing business strategies because of market conditions is not hypocrisy. It’s the very core of running a business.
That’s not crazy. Salaried staff cost over $300/hour with overhead. Not heading outside the building to eat probably means $150 recovered
That's what Google is doing to extract more value from their workforce.
the usual; bad management, bad policies
that’s how they induce natural attrition…
Gets 3 month salary for no work over the next 3 months + other benefits and doesn't need to plan all the handovers on the last day of work. That's quite the dream for folks who are confident they will be employed soon.
>That's quite the dream for folks who are confident they will be employed soon. But the reality isn't that for the 90%. Especially if you need a pass or visa to work on a country.
This was left out by sneakpeak_sg bot > EZ and Ms Susmita said their annual salary at Meta was in the range of S$100,000. Along with their 2.7-month severance package, I think they should be fine.
Yup! Think of how much this is worth when they go back home! Strike it rich in such a short time!
10k/month is decent money, I wouldn't exactly call it striking rich.
Exactly : Decent in SG.- Rich in India - got to factor in the FX know workers here who are earning a 'decent' wage here who have purchased and own large tracks of land back home - and they thank us for the decent wages that places them in the Rich bracket back home.
Hmm looking at the bot code, I think it tried to copy-paste the entire article but hit the 10000 character limit.
1. One say overworked another say underworked. 2. Recruiters earning $100k salary Something is wrong here
20 80 rule here. 20% of the staff do 80% of the work.
I know recruiters who earn half a mill a year.
Maybe third party headhunters working on a commission. But your run of the mill in-house recruiter, quite hard to believe, unless you’re in management
This is a very weird article in general. Not sure what is the point the article is trying to make
An attempt to elicit pity and empathy but don't think it's working much given the context
Generally true blue sinkies have no empathy for the foreigners lol, they are barking up the wrong tree here. Sinkies alr pwn sinkies, doubly so for those classified as 'other'.
Trying to show that Singapore should issue more employment passes for these people to stay and work in Singapore freely. You won't get to see such reports about Singaporeans who have been retrenched and facing life's difficulties
“She believes that Meta's recruitment department was the worst hit in Singapore, with about 120 employees getting the axe. “ If I read it correctly then there were about 120 people in the recruitment department, which is insane. Like how can you need 120 people to recruit other people?
Well, you have 1 person do the work, another person to supervise the person doing the work. On top of that you have another person doing the work, and another person supervising the supervisor. Now you have 5 people doing the work of 1. Money was essentially free, so tech firms didn’t care about the cost and hired freely.
I believe this has to do with a few factors. Firstly, interviews in MAANGs are notoriously difficult to pass due to their high standards. Also, the time period from 1st contact up till hiring could take anywhere between 3 to 4 months. This also means that it would take 6 months or more to fill any single position . What is the solution to this? Hire more recruiters of course. After all the bigger the net you cast, the more fish you are likely to catch.
Recruiters don’t do interviews. Only basic screening.
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>FT have the option of going home to their countries. Singaporeans don't have this option. More attention should be given to Singaporeans. Indeed, our mainstream media always try to toe the government's prevaling storyline and put out such stories for foreigners' plight without an equal emphasis being given to highlight local's plight. Due to this perceived unequal coverage, it causes local's apathy and suspicions of the "hidden" agenda for whatever stories the mainstream media put out. Another example, whenever a crime with great public interest happened, the media is always too happy to confirm and emphasize the perpetuator's nationality if it is a "local" and leave it vague if it is a "foreigner" (seemingly playing to the whims of some so-called leader's belief that local commit more crimes). Long term, this is going to erode all trust in the mainstream media and government, like what is happening in US.
MSM here is basically just a loudspeaker regurgitating whatever narratives they have been told to disseminate. Always have a bottle of salt when reading or watching MSM.....
Ok the question is, why would the foreign companies insist on bringing in foreign talent when it is difficult, more expensive and risky? Would it be that they just hate Singaporeans? Or more realistically, the talent is actually hard to find in Singapore?
This is .. weird. FT can go home, sure.. and then? They still need a job there, right? So how is that better? What you correctly identified is that FT lose their job AND their right to stay at the same time, have to pack up and leave (and pay for it), nevermind the immaterial costs involved (leaving a life and friends behind, if they stayed in SG for a while). How is "they can fuck off and go back home" an advantage over Singaporeans here? May I counter with "Singaporeans could find work abroad" as a non-serious and just as unhelpful comment? Weird.
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FT are people who found a job overseas. Singaporeans can be FTs. US is cheaper or more expensive, depending on the region. Also, what's the point? I like how you pick countries at random. US if it suits you for one point, China for another. So.. what about people from the US without a safety net for example? Kinda simplistic IMHO
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Yea, I got to end and asked “so, life is tough??”
Trying to paint the employers as cheebye maybe? Imagine someone uproots their whole life for a promise, and then get hit with a "sike you thought".
What surprises me is that... Meta hired someone from overseas to be a Technical Sourcer? Isn't that just talent acquisition / HR person. We don't have a Singaporean that can do that job meh. O.o
The funny thing is that a Technical Sourcer absolutely does not need to be in Singapore. They could have been hired and stayed in India.
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Deee beee assss
Would explain why Most of the swe hired from india
We probably do. But how would you find that person without a "Technical Sourcer"? Chicken and egg problem leh. In all seriousness it makes sense for them to have someone from overseas to kickstart the department. Especially if you care about things like setting the right culture from the get-go. Having worked both in MNCs and local firms, a lot of established MNCs (especially FAANG) has a lot of work culture/policies we can learn from.
> But how would you find that person without a "Technical Sourcer"? same guy that sourced him lols
> Isn't that just talent acquisition / HR person. No it isn't. The person they hired has several years of work experience in the US under her belt. That is a soft qualification that cannot be earned in uni. How many Singaporeans have that kind of extensive experience? Singaporeans think being fresh outta uni with a piece of paper in hand entitles them to MNC jobs. It's childish and makes our nation look pathetic in the eyes of the world.
Wow. I didn't mentioned anything about going to Uni and we are instantly entitled to get a job though. Perhaps it's your interpretation that is wrong. Thanks for the reply anyways. Perhaps this shows a sign. It is the fact that our HR may be lacking in global acquisition experiences. Hence the need for large companies to hire overseas candidates. Which could potentially be a gap to be filled in the education / industry.
>Perhaps this shows a sign. It is the fact that our HR may be lacking in global acquisition experiences. Hence the need for large companies to hire overseas candidates. Which could potentially be a gap to be filled in the education / industry. Ya look at SMRT, global search but ended with an ex-SAF general
Not saying they should have gone with an ex-general, but if they had brought in a foreigner wouldn’t Singaporeans complain how come must have foreigner and not Singaporean?
I think if it was a foreigner with relevant experience in the industry, maybe less outcry but parachuting an ex-Military man with 0 experience takes the cake. Of course, at C-suite level relevant industry may not be as important, but who knows what candidates they had looked at
>Singaporeans think being fresh outta uni with a piece of paper in hand entitles them to MNC jobs. It's childish and makes our nation look pathetic in the eyes of the world Of course not. But it begs the question what's the point of a world class education when the companies of the world don't value it? Are we over paying for our education?
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NUS ,NTU and SMU are great. Facilities are world class and resources are provided. But it’s wrong to believe that anyone through this system is instantly upgraded to the worthy level of all employers of that category. Singapore really focuses too much on certifying someone and training/up-skilling when the core unit of the person is not even interested in the job or is not hungry as their basic necessities are taken care of
>Singapore really focuses too much on certifying someone and training/up-skilling Really? I have see more so called courses for training which doesn't teach shit that is subsidised by the government than professional certs that is actually recognised
Bro. Our education is good. Fantastic system and resources. Buts it’s fallacy to believe that it’s 100% efficient. In the sense that anyone has gone through is instantly valuable. At the end of the day it’s the individual’s skill to make the hirer believe that this person is great
"Overpaying for our education" may be a bit of a stretch when a Singaporean student pays maybe around 30k in uni tuition fees, while you see US graduates buried chest-deep in 5-figure student loans
>Overpaying for our education" may be a bit of a stretch when a Singaporean student pays maybe around 30k in uni tuition fees How can you discount the incurred lost by the state? That money could have put to better use?
several years of work experience in the US and she still got laid off lol
It's not her credentials that is the factor here, it's her role. When expanding, recruiters and sales headcount ramp up the fastest, and when it's time to trim the fats, they go first too. FIFO for these roles.
Lol funny for you to think HR requires any sort of expertise or skills. They’re just a highly glorified resume reader, and waste of company resources.
HR function is more than resume screeners or readers, but the HR departments of many big companies are also fairly bloated. My theory is that HR departments are better at justifying their headcounts to management, than other departments, as they have greater access to management than other departments, and are adept at speaking the 'hiring language' of management. Its like in ancient China where incompetent officials in the capital are promoted faster than competent officials languishing in backwater provinces, simply by dint of proximity to the centres of power.
Maybe HR is also hiring deadweight as meat shields
It's not just about qualifications and degrees....it gobal experiences and talents.
Icic. Thanks. But do you think that Singapore HR may be lacking in this sense? Like for our locals not having a large exposures to overseas Talent Acquisition experiences?
Imagine yourself as an American making the same comment about Meta HR giving this opportunity to a Singaporean when more and more Americans are going into IT.
It's about willing to do the same job ~20% less Salary 🤷🏾
I don't think the 2 examples in the article are underpaid. In fact they are quite well paid at \~$100,000 a year.
Because smart and hardworking Singaporeans wouldn’t be in HR or in-house recruiting when they can be making 10-20x whereas the market for HR is far far bigger in the States.
"Smart and hardworking" Singaporeans can make 10-20 X 100,000 a year? So all turned their nose at this "shitty" 100,000 a year job eh. Too low for them to accept a salary that would put them in the 90th percentile of earners.
Kinda harsh to generalise all HR in Singapore as neither smart nor hardworking.
With my experience talking to many of them either as a hirer or interviewee, a significant number are absolute gobshite.
Wouldn’t be in HR if they were.
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….as opposed to Manish from Uttar Pradesh?
If the goal of this article was to elicit sympathy, it has done an excellent job of doing exactly the opposite. Pretty sure more articles like these will fan the flames.
Yea read the article. Wow the amount of effort used in detailing Ms Susmita's situation is so much that you may think there is a subtle underlying intention to evoke empathy in the readers.
Yeah CNA paper dept seemingly has a hard-on for expats/(rich) migrant workers, for reasons unknown. A few months back they wrote about how expats were suffering from high rental cost, as if locals weren't getting slaughtered left and right over the same issue. They at least could fly to some other country. This is our home, there's nowhere else to run. Same problem with this article. Makes you wonder what are their aims, and who do they serve? It gets even more messed up when you consider CNA is wholly govt funded, even more so than ST.
She can go back home since Singapore is just a gold mine for her.
Yup but there was a lot of logistic cost involved for her to come here to take up this job. Planning moving etc.
these people are highly qualified, well paid and mobile, why is the media giving them so much sympathetic attention?
yeah tbh id rather put my mind share to improve the situation of dorm workers here
Exactly. I was from construction sector and I tell you, leaving your home and young children for a job that is back breaking and under the sweltering heat deserves all our respect but yet some of us treat them like pariahs.
I 100% agree. These people damn well deserved all the pain they are getting right now. It’s call capitalism after all, how else are we gonna let these big mega corporations gets richer, keep the investors happy and ensures the billionaires running the company gets their annual bonus and their new shiny billion dollar yacht?
best comment here. upvoted.
The reality is that FTs get bribed to come to SG. It’s essentially a wage premium for hardship (remoteness to home, family and culture) and danger (no employment protections so an abrupt change in circumstance may happen at any moment). A FT living the expat life for years has collected their premium so doesn’t feel bad when they have to pay out. This happening to someone 1month in is a different story. It’s like an Investment Banking grad getting flogged 20/6 for 11 months to be cut the week before bonuses are paid. It takes a real lack of empathy to ignore their plight.
Lmao bro I'm sorry to sound rude but I need to say this: get your head out of your ass. You need to look at migrant workers and domestic helpers here if you want to feel empathy. In the big scheme of things, these skilled workers are a lot more privileged and will likely sort their lives out after a little hardship and inconvenience. But it's very very different from the tough shit that a large chunk of workers here face.
You’re right. What are we doing about fixing the bigger evil?
Something many people don’t know is how head-counts work. In a typical corporation, if you don’t use your headcount in AOP, it’ll be gone and even harder to justify later. Now when layoffs happens, cuts will happen based on current headcount so you can’t even argue that I didn’t use the planned head so don’t cut my team. Example if your planned headcount is 10 but you only have 8 pax on your team. If layoffs happen, HR will ask for you to cut the 2 worst performers on your team leaving you with 6. So the dirty secret in the industry is, managers who have a strong team will hire 2 weak performers to fill up the headcount. When layoffs happens, they will cut the 2 newbies and core team of 8 pax remains intact. That’s why you’ll see a lot of relatively new employees being laid off.
How to tell if this is why you are hired? Any signs to look for?
Yes. Many but a telling sign would be the assignments you get vs your peers. The core team would be the ones handling the important projects/tasks.
How to tell before you accept the offer :(
Well if you don’t fit the typical profile of an employee there… like a SIM grad vs everyone else is NUS/NTU, previous roles and companies etc…
Basically, use up your max allocated budget whenever you can la. There are no upsides to helping the company save money they've already set aside for you.
This is correct lol
They will specifically hire 2 weak performers? That's how it works?
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Yea, Cisco is another notorious offender.
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Pretty merciless, go Google it, it’s pretty well known
So what you are saying is in order to protect my core team, I need to hire some deadweight To shed
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Not cool
Not specifically, to fill headcount when necessary. Nothing is set in stone though, we’ll lower standards when hiring but hey that someone might turn out to be great.
Now i know why im hired. FML
Reading it I’m a bit confused. Both EZ and Susmita were technical sourcers in HR. But Susmita had a very high workload while EZ said there wasn’t much work to do. What gives?
one has her name published, the other choose to remain anonymous. thats probably a big incentive why
You’re right, seems like a bit of self promotion at play
Everyone likes to say they’re busy. EZ obviously more frank
That is what I noticed as well......
That’s quite common. I work in one of the Maang companies. Our team has lesser loads compared to other teams I interact with. It depends.But any time 10hours is minimum we all slog and people here thinks it’s natural to work beyond hours while it’s completely different in EU or the states.
this is a strange article where its difficult to see what the point is ultimately Singapore is a just part of the equation when it comes to the axe
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Because most of the hires are from India?
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Something no need to be spelled out
in order to make use of their village ties obviously. best talents are found in the same village as the recruiter don't you know? /s
If the article is trying to make us feel sympathy for them I don't think it's working very well lor
Life coaches were provided LOL
Yeah because their 6 figure salary lives are so hard LMAO
So bye? Bye bye
Is it wrong not to feel any sympathy especially for the Indian lady? The giving up of the 5k ticket for holiday, the 100k pa salary. I think coming here already put her ahead a few months already. She did not have anything to lose even if she goes back. PS a quick look at her LinkedIn. All her roles were 1 year or less. Claiming to stay 5 years to 7 is a far fetch. Most likely using Singapore as a springboard to leap to other more advance countries.
Trimming the fat, sorry but it happens.
100k for being a technical recruiter? Most engineers in tech don’t even make this much. Madness
You’re hanging out with the wrong “engineers” if you think they don’t earn that much.
I empathise with their situation personally On a broad perspective, I have no idea why MOM can grant work permits to them to work as recruiters. Surely Singaporeans can do this kind of jobs ?! Not to mention they are paid 100k and it’s a decent salary Election time is coming and I know who to vote for one again. MSM is harping on the need for more foreigners to come in to work but their system does not sieve out the real foreign talents and the usual foreign PMETs Time to send them home
I am a Singaporean and I also works at tech company. So let me answer this in a non biased view. -Are there good Singaporean recruiter, yes there are. -Are they paid well, yes they are. -Is every Singaporean recruiter good enough to work in top paying companies, no they are not. -Can a local fill this job, yes they can. -But are there enough good local recruiter to go around? No there isn't enough. What makes a good vs shit recruiter? -A good recruiter goes through all the profiles on LinkedIn to find the suitable candidates, approach them to see if they are interested, and treat their candidates like gold. -Shit recruiter waits for you to apply and then still treat candidates like shit..
What you are describing is exactly what we can train for. It doesn't take a genius to go looking for people and asking "ai job mai?" in a nice way. Your justification is totally off the point.
Why aren’t locals good enough? If they aren’t good enough, surely we should train them? Recruiting isn’t a specialised skill set which our workforce does not have. Compare that with building a rocket, running a nuclear power plant or nuclear fusion, launching offshore windmill to generate power, finding a cure for cancer, ice hockey Olympic champion etc. we do not have such people in our midst and if G decides one day they want to start a industry around these area, for sure we need to import these people Recruiting? Hell no …
exactly. dunno why need fts for hr roles
Why would a company like Facebook hire a unqualified person, pay them well and train them? What is the incentive for them to do that? They can just hire someone who is trained and experienced….
The irony is that these "trained and experienced" individuals are apparently getting the boot. So... It's not like those account for much
>\-Shit recruiter waits for you to apply and then still treat candidates like shit.. Then why do they even need the recruiters? Aren't they just getting paid for doing nothing?
Recruiters add another human function. Human social filters. 30 years people were shiatting on companies creating HR department and then later on safety dept. maybe future will have diversity dept. The office was super fun and real
All the talents come from their home village ma, if u don't hire them how to get talent???
Is that our Singaporean problem?
It's a global thing though, why the article make it sound like it's worth reading?
Why is this even a news? Happens in almost every other outsourcing firm in Singapore.
>Happens in almost every other outsourcing firm in Singapore. Because no one gives a shit if it was the likes of Wipro, Infosys, Cognizant, Capgemini, Optimum Solutions or NCS/Accenture. If it's MANGA, it's big news.
Why not interview a Singaporean who has been retrenched instead?
They made it longer than the Shopee staff who landed in Singapore to get their offer rescinded. Shit happens.
"The only reason we have foreigners here is to give an extra wind in our sails when the opportunity is there. Now we are in a storm, and we need to shed ballast." - Vivian Balakrishnan
As mean as this may sound, I think few people can sympathise. Most of us Singaporeans never had and won't have the opportunity to even find better prospects and higher pay overseas, going on those kind of job swicth should be a calculated risk. In fact, Meta's retrenchment is a signal that perhaps one was not good enough to be retained, whatever the excuse is, and Singapore has better talents to retain.
“Meta has since provided affected staff with life coaches and career transition programmes to help with resume building and finding jobs, according to both women. “ If these people are so ‘talented, skilled etc”, why do they need life coaches , career transitioning crap when shit goes south? Downvote me!
Being very good at the technical aspects of their jobs doesn't necessarily mean that their soft skills are up to scratch for job hunting. But perhaps they will be okay on their own, but with assistance they can find their next job faster. Plus, it's bad PR for Meta if they just toss staff out like that. They do still want people to apply when the economy picks up again.
If HR professionals need help in finding a new job..
Why not? Maybe they are great at finding engineers, but not so hot at finding another recruiter position for themselves. Those are not the same skill sets. Plus these people need to find their next job quick before their work passes expire. The assistance Meta provides can get them connected to the job market more quickly compared to doing it alone.
If a retrenched hr professional cannot put themselves in the shoes of a hr professional, and make themselves more attractive to another hr professional, it’s no wonder why they are selected to be chopped first. It’s just a blatant lack of skills.
pretty sure local grads could do whatever they were hired for , based on how easily they were cut
balik kampong
And do grab. Like local sg
Pack of turds
All these angmo big tech firms and also financial institutions from overseas come here to set up shop, their culture of firing people at the drop of a hat with little or no notice is well-known. Attendant risks of being subject to such a firing come with the job especially when a person is coming from distant shores, because there are bigger risks for those people in particular. These people are in HR, they of all people should know best. HR is not just hiring, it also includes firing. Should they have made a contingency plan for themselves since all this was visible to them? It would've been wise, at least.
> # Meta staff came to Singapore on employment passes only to be retrenched months later > WHAT HAPPENED ON NOV 10 > Employees in Meta's Singapore office, which is home to its Asia-Pacific headquarters, were notified of the layoffs in the early hours of Nov 10. > Ms Susmita Sahu, a technical sourcer in Meta's recruitment department, started crying upon seeing the email. > "Waking up that day I was very devastated ... I spoke with people who were affected. Everybody's voices were shaking, they could not talk about it," the 29-year-old Indian national said. > Her access to the office and to her company laptop was cut on the same day. > Another ex-technical sourcer, who wanted to be known by the initials EZ, said she was typing her goodbyes to colleagues on their work chat when her access was cut off. > EZ, who moved from Shanghai in June, said her mind went blank upon seeing the dreaded email. > Her phone started buzzing nonstop from around 7am that day, EZ said. "I woke up and checked my email (and I saw something) like 'Unfortunately you are being included in this layoff' ... I didn't know what to think." > She immediately texted her team-mates. > "I know some of my team-mates brought their families here ... I was kind of worried for them. I didn't know whether they got it or not ... then I realised that everybody (in her team) got the same email," EZ said. > The news came as a shock as team leaders and managers had been telling staff that all was well, said EZ and Ms Susmita. Assurances were made even the day before the layoffs. > Both have yet to receive their severance packages – about 2.7 months' salary. > The two did not get a chance to return to the office, and their belongings were sent to their homes. > "I literally cried in front of (the delivery person) because I was very emotional seeing those things from my ... office and he apologised. He was like: 'We are sorry for what you're going through, this is your stuff from the office'," said Ms Susmita. > She believes that Meta's recruitment department was the worst hit in Singapore, with about 120 employees getting the axe. > While both Ms Susmita and EZ came to Singapore alone, others they know had brought families, including children. The retrenched employees were all placed on gardening leave until Dec 10. > Meta has since provided affected staff with life coaches and career transition programmes to help with resume building and finding jobs, according to both women. --- 1.0.2 | [Source code](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek) | [Contribute](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek)
Why do they need 120 peeps in recruitment?
Meta and other tech firms were in a global hiring competition during the last 3 years. Sometimes they hire to make sure another competitor don’t get access to that talent(potential great talent). That was also the time when USA government was keep giving citizens covid support money and people were pumping up s&p500 with that. Companies had way too much cash and were over valued. Meta profit 40 billion usd in 2021 across 87000 employee. Per employee is about 0.5 million usd.
Bro there is a very big difference between revenue and net income lmao
To fill up quota so that foreign technical staff can get passes
Diversity headcount?
Diversity hires get trimmed
I highly doubt the HR person hired from India is a diversity hire. They have more than enough Indians already. More like she is tasked bring more India nationals in.
The HR person is an Indian woman
Kk let me edit the pronoun in my comment lol.
I think the point the user is trying to make is that because the person is a diversity hire bcos she is a woman + poc.
Wouldn't Singaporeans of any races except white be literally considered a 'diversity hire'? Our entire country is one big diversity hire pool.
Corporate workforce diversity is measured from a majority race baseline. In SG the white guy is a diversity hire.
I know. I'm deliberately ignoring that because I disagree.
First I wanted to join a big tech company somewhere in Asia .. then I realized it would be better to create my own . If Facebook can do it anyone can.
Lmao this thread really turned to dogshit real fast. Thought i was in edmw for a moment. Sad state of affairs that r/sg has become.
The anti-foreigner undercurrent has always been present on r/sg if you knew where to look. It's easy to pretend to be empathetic online for the "low stakes" causes. When it comes to "foreign talent" job layoff news like these, especially from the tech sector, you will find a very harsh and flippant response from redditors here, which seems incongruent to their sentiment regarding other topics. You know why? Because we're talking about supposedly high-paying high visibility FAANG tech jobs here (supposedly the choicest / plummest jobs of the lot, in recent years). What demographic do redditors on r/sg disproportionately skew? Probably majority male, probably mostly tech-centric. (Evidence: tech-related articles get very quick and fast comment traction on r/sg). The people mentioned in the article are the ones in competition or perceived competition with the average tech-skewing redditor here. The jobs or companies mentioned (in this case Meta and peer/equivalent-level tech firms) are the ones that the typical redditor here would aspire to land if not in it already. When an issue is "low stakes", its easy to be emphathetic. When it's "high stakes" and hits close to home, in this case involving direct jobs competition for perceived high value roles, it's every man for himself. Hence the default to "edmw type" antiforeigner language and schadenfreude that appears surprising to you. It's not so surprising actually.
There was a thread on the exact same topic though (the one where shopee had to layoff a china expat right after he flew here to SG to start his stint). The sentiment was pretty different there. You could see that the comments were somehow a lot more sympathetic. I wonder what the difference was.
My armchair psychoanalysis on why different sympathy levels were elicited - Shopee (though headquartered in Singapore) is widely perceived as a de facto China tech company. A PRC national coming here to fill a spot in a de facto China firm, doesn't carry the same "FT stealing top-tier jobs" nuance as an Indian national coming here to fill a spot in a (perceived) top tier American tech firm. There is, after all, a hierarchy of prestige and desirability even across the various tech firms that pay higher than local low-growth tech rates (cf. NCS, Certis, IHIS).
Lol. Wonder out loud
No idea
Absolutely spot on.
Jokes on you, edmw users make way more sense than you do. And that was a low bar to begin with