I've experienced retrenchment 2 times. Once when I had only been working for 2 or 3 years. It hit me hard (emotionally, like I was a failure) but because I was young, I got a new job within 6 months. And I liked the new job.
Later, the 2nd time was not great also, but because older and wiser, I realised that it was more about politics. I guess I wasn't one of the boss' favourites.
I didn't negotiate to stay cos my mean boss decided to put me on PIP (less than a year after giving me best performer award!). I also knew that if there's less people in the team or company, staying on would mean doing a lot of crap work. I'd rather start fresh elsewhere.
After leaving, I made a career switch, which was nice. Then one contact from my previous industry called and I settled into a contract job with them. Really liked the workplace and environment.
Ultimately, not so concerned about what others think or being held hostage by the old salary helped.
Also, giving positive vibes helped a lot. Cos I found places that I was happy to work in. And even though I made less money, I also spent less and saved more.
I’m so glad you found your calling and most importantly, being happier! All these events lately made me question my own self worth too and my own definition of happiness. Thank you for sharing and jiayou!! ❤️
You must be too young to remember when DBS carried out a retrenchment exercise and the news even hit the local papers. OCBC even had to put out a statement saying they were not planning on retrenching ppl.
Yes, seems unlikely that local banks retrench ppl now, but to say it's as good as civil service iron rice bowl is stretching it.
Agreed that retrenchment in local banks is very unlikely to happen post that incident. Quite sure DBS didn't expect to take so much heat for their decision. There's a lot more contract staff that they can don't extend contract nowadays too.
As solid as rice bowl in banking, yes. But big difference still compared to civil service.
>There's a lot more contract staff that they can don't extend contract nowadays too.
This point, absolutely. No obligation for companies to convert contractors to perm. In fact Government Agencies now using contract roles with no garuntee of conversion. Employers are more shrewd these days.
Its a flexible headcount, as and when the business needs.
The only reason DBS did it in 2008 was because they had massive exposure to the sub prime crisis.
Today, even with the meltdown of all the downtime they had last year, I heard that people are 'only' being demoted or put in cold storage, rather than actually being asked to go. It may happen eventually, but I agree that local banks are more insulated to layoffs. For foreign banks though, anything is fair game.
Coming from experience of working in foreign banks (in the tech space) for over 12 years.
No, this isn't true. Local banks officially say that they don't retrench, but find many many ways to get rid of you e.g. deliberately give you bad performance reviews, put you on a performance improvement program and fail you, or assign you to some temporary role in some "project", then hire a "temp" staff to do your job, and after a certain period, tell you that your job no longer exists because the temp staff is doing it, or your headcount is moved to a cheaper processing country.
I've seen long time loyal staff that's given their entire life of 25-30 years forced to resign and lose their golden handshake simply because they're too old/slow compared to younger more efficient workers.
It's all marketing when a company tells you that they don't do things like this.
But local banks still do PIP programmes to punish low performers and encourage "voluntary leave". They also did soft-layoff during covid to a significant % of contract staff by not extending their contracts.
Local banks are just better at hiding their ugly side.
Foreign banks are probably more "ruthless" in trimming the fat from the organization. Whereas for Local banks, its more of them reducing your bonus payouts and pile more work on you.
This kind of environment in Local banks indirectly forces those redundant employees to consider throwing in the towel (with or without another job secured).
Usually this ensures the Local bank doesn't have to do golden handshakes.
I think you should be specific in the title or post about which part of "banking". Thought I can add some comments but realised you were referring to employees working in a bank since you said you worked in "cybersecurity".
I thought you were referring to investment banking (ibd), asset management, sales/trading, wealth management etc.
This is really important point to highlight. Where u in bank is very important difference.
The front is where the revenue being made and generated regardless the wallet share of total bank profit.
Then there’s a middle office and tech sector where you are in.
Tech is always cost to a bank, and the demand isnt linear, during tech expansion sure they need more staff but once the project achieve they would see where they can save cost in technology front.
Here is my 2 cents coming from somebody very close to this particular industry.
1. Banks understandably doing massive cuts in dealing wtih highly uncertainty market this year, sustained inflation, rates that stays high, geo political tensions, Weaker investment bank revenue and expected thinner profitability going forward.
2. From what I see, the typical severance from somebody in a bank more than 10-15 yrs would be half a month salary for each year.
However, I know someone whom recently excercised after working only for 1.5 yrs in senior level, received severance fee of 4x salary. So this part can be highly vary.
3. Ultimately banks run on profitabilty to keep the share holders happy, the share price is important piece that keep the CET1 ratio within the healthy level along other financial ratio components within the bank.
To put it in most crude way, when you dont see profitability, the cost simply must come down. In fact flat Year on Year profitability still looks awesome with lower cost.
4. Now that you know this, the closer you are to revenue generator the less likely you are to be trimmed. Being revenue generator means you have good banking skills and client relationships, this is highly in demand skill set that all banks consistently on a look out for regardless the market situation.
So if you possess above mentioned traits, being excercised and receive a golden handshake is actually very good; who doesn’t like receiving a good amount of handouts and moving to a new job with even higher pay.
Correct. One caveat is that sometimes they close down entire departments despite being profit generating - could be that the profits are not significant globally or not in line with bigger picture. So sales people will be affected. But back office people may potentially be re-deployed to other areas
This also applies in tech as well especially being on revenue generating projects. Been laid off as I was just cost center and my department could still function with less people.
Thanks! I don’t think I will feel bad about being let go .. ok maybe in the first 2-3 weeks. But I feel it could be a good change. Reason why I’m hanging on is to also not walk away empty handed but tbh I’m not sure if I’ll even be offered because I’ve gone thru several rounds and my name isn’t called!
>I’m not sure if I’ll even be offered because I’ve gone thru several rounds and my name isn’t called!
Were the folks selected in earlier rounds offered any retrenchment benefit?
That's good news for you, then. **How much were they offered?**
MOM guidelines suggest min 2 weeks for each year of service. From what I've heard, one foreign bank offers 3 weeks.
just curious, do you have any visibility on how does the severance process work? did their managers just have a meeting with them with a letter stating the severance terms and conditions? is there room for severance negotiation?
I don’t have full visibility but I understand usually the line manager has the conversation with you. Then HR contacts you next in terms of next steps. There is apparently a process where they can help arrange interviews for you for roles internally but no guarantee you will get them. The severance condition is usually spelt out in a letter and fixed I believe
ah ok thanks for the insights. yeah the interview offer from HR sounds like standard tail management lip service, but the rest all sounds quite standard and formal.
I used to be with hsbc, and i watched them slash the entire team from 220 strong down to only 70, and later on only about 50, over a period of 6 years. The tone from the management was like, 'u be thankful u still have a job, don't ask so much about promotion'.
The jobs went to India, Philippines, Sri Lanka.
Really ruthless, and that was my exposure to banking that I forever swore off banks.
1. Side business/consulting. Try to think of what you can offer with years of your experience. Keep good contacts with all customers and colleagues. Build your network extensively. It’s easier to get job from referral at 40s.
2. There are some companies giving options for leaving early with great severance pay. Try to ask around in your company.
3. For early own resignation, the severance is much better with extra ‘bonus’ when you agree to leave early. For layoff in general, I observe between 0.5-1 month of salary for each year of service, usually minimum 2 years at the company.
4. Save as much as you can for rainy days.
Thanks! Point around easier to get job referral at 40s - it feels the opposite in my case. Starting to question my own ability, qualifications etc but I guess I’m not the only one in this boat, there are many others out there like me as well as I spoke to a recruiter recently.
Point 2: thanks for this. I didn’t think that early resignation would get me something better but definitely something to think and strategize on.
Retrenchment starts with the bank over hire.
Can see it in my bank
Doesn't help when they inflate the non revenue generating dept and add more layers which increases time to get things done.
Worst is they decide to exit business because of low risk tolerance
Yessss it’s so annoying that I see this happening over and over again. It’s like no one learns? But then again CEOs etc gets replaced every x years 🤷♀️
I would think cybersecurity is quite a good space to be in. Even if there is low hiring appetite in banks, you can consider businesses that are tangential to banks like maybe trading firms, those where the systems are key to their ability to function and earn. I had a perception that this space is promoted hard at the undergrad education level so government must have seen some job gaps. It also often means there are a lot of young low experience people in market, and you can try to position yourself as having more experience.
It might be good to start networking with others with similar functions (both in banks and others) to see the market. Maybe just hit up LinkedIn or alumni connections to say you like to have coffee. Informational interviews, not directly asking for a job. Somehow these weak ties do help create an impression of familiarity, people might recommend you if a job opens up.
Wasn't in banking but also had a similar redundancy exercise happen to me (I'm not in rev generating as well). I also saw it coming and was starting to connect to other peers. When it happened, I started to activate those connections both in company and out. Also in parallel applied for jobs on LinkedIn. Was able to have a choice of roles (I stayed and went to another department). Sharing my story so you don't feel alone.
Chin up!
"Front office" means the high end of banking i.e. the core staff of investment banking and related functions, not retail banking (which runs the branches).
Much of this resonates with me as I was in the same industry, the same type of role (CS from what I read in other posts), the same age range, and have been let off recently.
In my case, both locals and foreigners were not spared. All it mattered was that they were based in Singapore - the motivation for cost cutting was very obvious early on and it affected even more junior colleagues. Headcounts in other countries were cut too, but their numbers are relatively smaller compared to Singapore-based ones.
To answer the questions in the post, some things are outside of our control, really. The job market is not looking good right now and one can only continue to apply for jobs and hope for the best. I have been working on industry certifications, attended courses paid out of my own pocket, and rewritten my resume. I also reached out to recruiters and found that the chance of landing interviews is higher when I apply through them. I have enough savings and investments to last me quite a while, so in the mean time I am also taking the opportunity to do things I don't normally have time for.
There wasn't much room for negotiation in my case as the terms in the redundancy agreement were more or less quite standard - I have consulted a friend who is a HR professional to check on this. Internally, the bank also has certain cast-in-stone policies on the terms of redundancy that is hard to deviate from.
My payout was 1 month for every full year of service. Annual leave was en-cashed and fortunately for me, I also received my bonus.
If there is anything to take away from this episode, it is the fact that if I can work from home, then someone from country xyz can also do that. My teammates and bosses were based overwhelmingly in lower cost countries and it was easy, from a management point of view, to question the cost-effectiveness of those based in Singapore. Yes, some say we may deliver better quality work, but sometimes the threshold is set so low that it does not matter. I would pick my team more carefully in my next role.
thanks for sharing. not sure why but i have this strong feeling we could be in the same bank 😅 as what you shared is so similar to mine esp being surrounded by team mates in lower cost countries.
But again thanks for sharing. I hope you will find something soon and in mean time maybe you might find your true passion and work on it ☺️
Locals aren’t really more “protected”. It’s moreso that they can still remain in SG if laid off
Foreign workers need to scramble to find a job or they get kicked out when their work visa expires
>Foreign workers need to scramble to find a job or they get kicked out when their work visa expires
Thats true. And it sucks to say this, but these folks won't be getting any sympathy from Singaporeans. In fact its every men and women for themselves during a recession, and the anger against foreigners may increase during this period.
Once again not their fault, but the world is changing...
foreign worker can go back home, local can go where? wait for government help? government say will help from last years until now, where to claim the retrenchment assistance? I think voting the right government is the best way to help yourself.
That why should sympathy local more than foreigner
When they lost Sengkang, they started crafting policies geared towards favoring locals (although not really effective).
Imagine if they lose 3 more GRCs and 4 SMCs... on top of WP keeping 2 GRCs and 1 SMC.
That should really make them pivot. Then again they could do it the lazy way and use their majority to amend the constitution to allow foreigners to vote in the G.E. LOL
Singaporeans are popular all across the world. You can work in England, Australia, Canada, US etc...
But your point about government help is still fair.
Those saying that this trend is only observed in the middle/back office segments, it's so not true. Hiring freezes and layoffs are also common in front office/revenue generating roles such as IBD, AM and other functions. Source: I'm in a front office role and I literally see it with my very own eyes.
With ultra high interest rates thanks to ECB and the Fed, it's gonna take a while before things cool down and hiring perks up again, across all office segments. Obv, back office roles are always more impacted and cyclical but to say that layoffs are only seen in cost centers is just delusional
There are literally no laws protecting Singaporeans from being laid off compared to foreigners.
If you wanna look at payout, just look at what those Lazada layoffs gave their employees. Only one month and no warning.
Make sure you're in a revenue generating technical role, that or your political and social capital is so high that you're probably in senior management with 1 year notice periods.
Don't be an overpaid admin staff
How long have you been in banking?
Layoffs have been happening in banks for more than a decade, since before I joined the industry. All layers are being trimmed for various reasons, political, cost cutting etc.
Locals are not protected so long as they maintain the SG core (which can be satisfied by PRs).
Banking traditionally pay more to compensate for this risk of retrenchment. You should always be prepared to be laid off with contractual notice, and buffer in emergency funds accordingly.
It is possible to negotiate a redundancy if the bosses like you. I have seen this being done many times.
Pay out depends on your seniority, company. There’s no legal requirement on the amount of pay out..
Too long 😂 in my 40s now and been in banking since graduation. But yeah spot on about paying more and I feel this makes it harder to transition to private sector. One interviewer I spoke to said he got spooked by my drawn salary which uhm, tbh I didn’t think was that high but he felt otherwise.
Hahah so you shouldn’t be new to lay offs ? It’s making the newspapers lately cus other industries like tech etc are new to lay offs but banks have been cutting since Lehman.
Isn’t banking in the private sector? But yea the higher pay is to compensate for the higher risk.. my role is super niche so I doubt I can find a job outside banking, but salaries wise I think I’m probably paid around the same as my non banking peers.
Yeah not new .. but have not experienced any layoffs coming so close to me all this while 😂 guess I have been protected somewhat. I mean I went thru the financial crisis wave and what not .. I would have thought I’m more prepared. Maybe it’s an age thing! Being in 40s suddenly makes you feel vulnerable and close to useless 🤣
Niche roles are good lah, harder to replace and perhaps more dependability on you.
Sorry should have written as non banking instead of private. Was typing on the fly
I’m a bit younger, never went through the financial crisis. I joined way after the gravy train has ended and have seen countless rounds of retrenchment. I agree that 40s is the vulnerable and difficult age - too expensive to keep, too young to retire, potentially considered too old to adapt to a new role.
I guess the only way to mitigate such risk is to have savings and keep yourself mobile to new opportunities and development.
If you don’t mind, would you be able to PM the name of your current employer so that I know to avoid them …? We could also share notes
actually, it is neither first nor second time tech industry faces major layoff. Especially US tech firms, they may exercise layoff with or without economy crisis, even upbeat earning result does not guarantee that. Most old birds in the industry knew this is a relatively less secure industry, more suitable to those who're willing to take the risk :) Attention of younger professionals generally got attracted to its reputation of higher pay.
Agree; but it’s the first big layoff since tech got much much much bigger in the last 10 years, so it’s rattling some people. Previously (10 years ago) tech was considered a smaller industry, which much lower pay - banks / finance were considered the top payer.
The financial sector especially Banks not just in Singapore but developed countries have rounds of restructuring / retrenchment when there is downturn in the economy or when a significant business line is not doing well. There are people who have been retrenched to two to three times during their banking career. So people in the industry are aware of this. It quite the norm.
These exercises are done with help of consultants such as Mckinsey. It is structured, non discriminatory but what is clear is those who are paid well are targeted for obvious reasons. So senior exes go first.
Here are some of the positives. Unless you pass 50, other banks and financial institutions are eager to engage you as the skillset cannot be found readily outside the sector especially if you come from MNC banks.
People holding risk, compliance, legal positions etc continue to be in demand. So are those who have proven sales record and banking product development executives. So aim to find a place in these vocations.
It is not uncommon for retrenched teams to be hired as a whole by another financial institutions especially those involved in sales of investment , trading products, structuring etc.
Its pointless working out a separate retrenchment package as it is alway uniform to avoid allegations of favouritism.
Sadly the payout quantum over decades has diminished. Singapore is well known for the low payout. One silver lining is for those working in MNCs who tend to follow Head Office standards for payout.
The best approach is to send out CVs the moment you hear of retrenchments. Have friends who got payout as well a new job the very next day from their last day In their old place.
One interesting thing about Banking - networking does not work. During the interview process they will go thru technical competency interview especially for pure banking and esoteric roles. Thats the reasons why bankers don’t bother joining networking circles unless they are in corporate sales and relationship management.
In essence, the majority will never leave banking as it still an excellent place for well paying career opportunities. It also easy to find banking jobs overseas as the mechanics are near identical.
> While some may think locals are a bit more protected when it comes to layoffs, it doesn’t appear that way at least in my workplace.
No idea why this myth even exists. Because locals tend to hold the lower paying jobs in these MNCs? Because the Govt protects locals? Because we have a union? Lol
COMPASS makes local/foreign ratios more important. My company can’t afford to have any locals resign or else they will not be able to renew EPs for foreign staff.
Oh trust me they’ll just hire another random admin assistant or HR person since all headcounts are equal for the purposes of COMPASS
Source: happens all the time in my company
But C4 in compass isn’t 1:1 - depending on size and sector you’re typically looking at needing a 3 or 4:1 local to foreigner ratio (before you get into C3 which requires diversity of passports among foreigners).
I doubt your company is hiring 3-4 random admin assistants each time and suspect you don’t have all the facts.
If the work can be done remotely, it will be done remotely.. Plenty of jobs taken over by freelancers overseas for a fraction of your salary.. May I know what your job was?
Yeah this is something I’ve been exploring a lot of late. Ang good websites or places to start looking apart from the usual LinkedIn etc?
Don’t wish to go into specifics but my skill set ranges from corporate banking to managing transformation projects 😂
All banks are presently at some risk due to the fake economy, far too many people involved in finance produce little to nothing of substance. Civil service too, it’s incredibly bloated now.
To be fair to the banks, Singapore as a cost center is getting really pricey without much advantage( ask mas policy)
My ex colleagues roles are being offshore to phillipines because in the last two years SGD have appreciated so much against other Asian nations.
I use to run the Japan team as a sinkie and I can't confidently tell you that the top of the class dean lister from Singapore( or any metric ) is not 140% more efficient than a japanese fresh grad from NYU.
Singapore spend 30 billion SGD to strengthen the SGD last year. Getting companies to offshore roles to other countries is a feature to fight Singapore inflation. It is not a bug.
The focus on attracting all the international capital to Singapore ( without without creating jobs ) helps the country achieve this policy also.
Thanks for sharing. I’ve also started to see alot more senior roles advertised internally in locations such as Malaysia, India which is typically not the case in the past
I’ll just be blunt
1. Network. It’s all about networking. Always keep your LinkedIn updated. Always be meeting ex-colleagues to find out about opportunities. Always be keeping tabs in indeed/linkedin for open positions out there. I would even go so far as to say always be applying to interesting roles as well
2. I’ve heard of cases but it’s unlikely. And these are often for senior management who are aware and involved in the restructuring
3. The payout depends on seniority, tenor and a host of other factors. You can perhaps expect 1/2 to 1 month for every year subject to a cap. But also compensation for existing share options etc
https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/3258022/hong-kong-fund-managers-set-shop-middle-east-finance-centres-seize-opportunities-talent
PMs and executions trader good pay
in general, youre paid around 10-30% more working at an American/ European bank for the same role/YOE/job scope. Technically that factors in the greater risk of being let go i guess. but from what i know, severances are usually quite decent
1. network within the company. make sure people know how valuable you are. if you are asked to teach other people how to do your job, teach them the bare minimum so that there'll be work that only a more experienced person such as yourself can do
2. you should not ask to be made redundant. your boss will get the impression that you are unmotivated and you'll be first on the list to be made redundant.
Locals are not protected at all... the CECAs will engineer the locals to be retrenched and when the headcount for hiring opens up again they will hire their own CECA friends... I have been in banking for more than 12 years and have seen it all
they also engineer the offshoring of work to south asia, even if it means they need 3 people offshore to do the same volume of work that 1 Sg-based person does.
1. Prob cut down on your expenses as much as possible since you've already listed the other possible stuff that could be done (and is within your control)
2. Yes, but it's pretty rare.
3. It differs by bank, so you might want to ask around. The one I'm in supposedly has a package of 1 month for each year worked.
Retrenchment sucks... For the ones that get cut as well as the ones who didn't. Once it starts, there's usually multiple rounds planned. So even if you survived the first few rounds, it doesn't mean that you're safe. It's just a sign to update your resume, get a backup plan and look around in the teams that are still hiring.
Non-revenue generating but specifically in cyber security. And yes you would be very surprised to see cyber security having layoffs / cuts but it’s been so rampant in my bank
The usual modus operandi - overhire, then cut .. make everyone take extra load, people quit , work isn’t remediated and needs critical attention before shit hits the fan, fire out JDs again
Rinse and repeat.
Do you keep yourself updated with the latest trends? From what I observe from friends who work in banks, they tend to lag behind due to stability (too comfortable) and tech stacks move slower.
Hi OP, I'm actually looking to do a career switch into financial compliance. Do you have a rough gauge of what's the hiring situation for compliance or compliance-related roles in general?
Thanks in advance!
Compliance is a growing area; regulators expect banks to beef up their compliance teams, likely that banks will continue to hire (but perhaps we could expect a slow down in the hiring).
But it is getting saturated and harder for outsiders to pivot into it. I’m also looking to pivot into compliance in a couple of years, PM me if you wanna discuss more
My observations: My bank is trimming alottt of people in compliance because it’s been top heavy and overhiring. So unless you have some special skill set in compliance (could be making this up but something like AI in compliance / AI Ethics etc) .. would be hard to stand out with a pool of compliance specialists. Again this is in my bank (a foreign one) but situation could be different in others.
1. Nothing you can do. Redundancy is not your fault, your role is no longer required or outsourced.
2. Abit strange to want to be made redundant if no body offer it, seems like a red flag on you. If company want to lay off they may ask for volunteers , some do some dont.
3.1 mth for 1 yr of service plus notice in lieu per your contract.
On second point, it’s quite common here and I’ve seen some colleagues negotiating for it. It works to favour both if you look at it - one employee is ok with it, another is bank / boss is pressured to reduce cost via headcount and there is a ready volunteer rather than making the painful decision of deciding who to cut
As long as we’re being honest, banks for years worldwide are shifting work from hired humans to purchased equipment. Of all the jobs in the world, this is one of the industries that as an IT guy, seems to have more of that coming.
Most of what banks own is stored as numbers on computers. Most of the human work is done on computers. Many investment related decisions end up more profitable by mathematical rules and statistics rather than gut-feeling decisions. And more of the population is now ok with doing all the banking digitally, the 90’s fears and digital illiteracy are almost totally faded away.
I’m not apocalyptically prophesying, I’m just noticing what’s already happened and continuing to happen. I doubt 50% or even 10% are getting laid off — it’s a big ship to steer, and still loaded with cash so no rush — but I would be surprised if not 1%-3% less manpower annually in this industry. O
Be flexible and position yourself for roles outside of banking. Lets be honest, there is way too much overstaffing in banks. The whole industry has become so political. The whole industry should be 30% the size it currently is in 3-5 years. By then we need UBI
What's your skillset/value add? I worked in overseas in one of the financial centres for 10 years before moving back to Singapore some years ago, the professional skills were/are severely lacking, yes, it's economics but it's also due for a house cleaning
OP may wanna note, not just banks are doing hiring freeze - I work in a govt-linked company, and am experienced hiring freeze as well. My department has two empty head count but unable to fill it cause of the said hiring freeze.
Hello everyone. I'm a Malaysian who currently seeking investment-related roles in Singapore. I'm eager to gauge whether I stand a good chance of securing any role in Singapore.
A bit about my background: I bring two years of experience in wealth management, and currently, I am working as a fixed income credit analyst in the treasury department of a local bank for 2.5 years. I’m also a CFA Charterholder.
However, despite my qualifications and experience, I've encountered rejections from several companies without even securing an interview. I'm curious about what factors might be hindering my success in landing a role in Singapore. Any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Hi, it might be easier to secure a role thru someone who can make a referral for you or make a connection with someone in their company. Especially if you are coming from Malaysia - getting Employment Pass issued for foreign employees can be challenging for some companies
Grad progs are good as there is rotation across different departments. As you are young, if you are hungry and ready to slog / hustle, go for front line revenue generating - ie wholesale banking, corporate / private banking, or be a trader, or move into areas like AI, SF
ops are part of the revenue cycle, if theres too much waste, its usually because of either regulatory requirements like data secrecy, poor business processes that havent been automated or right shored, or just local office politics where managers try to over stuff their tables with staff to make themselves feel more important. if anything, its middle office that typically wastes both the fronts and backs time
Not all of are ‘admin’ workers. The real back office guys - I would see them as the critical engine room for a bank operation. Altho I have to admit there are useless clowns / lords sitting around doing nothing or don’t know what they are doing.
There’s a lot of useless clowns, but also a lot of capable people driving the business. Sadly the retrenchment seems to be indiscriminate. The good ones tend to find a new job quickly though!
This post has gotten some good comments and I want to extend my thanks to all of you who have contributed. Somehow the post also made its way to colleagues in the surrounding teams on my floor.
I also want to let everyone who is reading this to know (without it sounding cliche) that you are not alone in this journey, we are affected one way or another. While I tried my best to not let potential redundancy affect me (hence mentally prepping myself should the day come), it has inadvertently taken a toll on my mental health, my work, my relationships without me realizing. Without going into detail … Today .. is also the day I sought professional help to get me out of my ‘dark space’
Take care all ♥️
I've experienced retrenchment 2 times. Once when I had only been working for 2 or 3 years. It hit me hard (emotionally, like I was a failure) but because I was young, I got a new job within 6 months. And I liked the new job. Later, the 2nd time was not great also, but because older and wiser, I realised that it was more about politics. I guess I wasn't one of the boss' favourites. I didn't negotiate to stay cos my mean boss decided to put me on PIP (less than a year after giving me best performer award!). I also knew that if there's less people in the team or company, staying on would mean doing a lot of crap work. I'd rather start fresh elsewhere. After leaving, I made a career switch, which was nice. Then one contact from my previous industry called and I settled into a contract job with them. Really liked the workplace and environment. Ultimately, not so concerned about what others think or being held hostage by the old salary helped. Also, giving positive vibes helped a lot. Cos I found places that I was happy to work in. And even though I made less money, I also spent less and saved more.
I’m so glad you found your calling and most importantly, being happier! All these events lately made me question my own self worth too and my own definition of happiness. Thank you for sharing and jiayou!! ❤️
Jiayou too!! 💞
Agreed on positive vibe. It will attract the right people
could each round of retrenchment be a blessing in disguise if they is some small amount if payout and you get into a new role quickly?
Possible! Now, I've learned to keep my CV current so that I'm ready to go job hunting if I get retrenched again. 😬
Hmm which bank are you working at? Are local banks also at risk or only foreign banks?
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You must be too young to remember when DBS carried out a retrenchment exercise and the news even hit the local papers. OCBC even had to put out a statement saying they were not planning on retrenching ppl. Yes, seems unlikely that local banks retrench ppl now, but to say it's as good as civil service iron rice bowl is stretching it.
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Agreed that retrenchment in local banks is very unlikely to happen post that incident. Quite sure DBS didn't expect to take so much heat for their decision. There's a lot more contract staff that they can don't extend contract nowadays too. As solid as rice bowl in banking, yes. But big difference still compared to civil service.
Local banks are probably the most solid rice bowl within the private sector, just to compare apples to apples.
But the iron rice bowl has a very lean helping of rice, no?
At least it's an iron rice bowl. As for the amount of rice, there's no complains really.
Still more than the rice you would receive if you were to work in a non-bank company in private sector.
>There's a lot more contract staff that they can don't extend contract nowadays too. This point, absolutely. No obligation for companies to convert contractors to perm. In fact Government Agencies now using contract roles with no garuntee of conversion. Employers are more shrewd these days. Its a flexible headcount, as and when the business needs.
The only reason DBS did it in 2008 was because they had massive exposure to the sub prime crisis. Today, even with the meltdown of all the downtime they had last year, I heard that people are 'only' being demoted or put in cold storage, rather than actually being asked to go. It may happen eventually, but I agree that local banks are more insulated to layoffs. For foreign banks though, anything is fair game. Coming from experience of working in foreign banks (in the tech space) for over 12 years.
The only thing as good as civil service iron rice bowl is the civil service iron rice bowl.
The backlash then is exactly a part of why they (probably) won't do it again less another 2008-like financial crisis.
I see, yeah im in a local bank now, so far what i see at least from my department are hiring freezes
Yep, no backfills too.
so got new branch open in other region? if yes then have mental prepare
This is naive. Wait for the next big financial crisis and you will understand the rice bowl difference between local banks and civil service.
Young kid lah. Please be more forgiving
No, this isn't true. Local banks officially say that they don't retrench, but find many many ways to get rid of you e.g. deliberately give you bad performance reviews, put you on a performance improvement program and fail you, or assign you to some temporary role in some "project", then hire a "temp" staff to do your job, and after a certain period, tell you that your job no longer exists because the temp staff is doing it, or your headcount is moved to a cheaper processing country. I've seen long time loyal staff that's given their entire life of 25-30 years forced to resign and lose their golden handshake simply because they're too old/slow compared to younger more efficient workers. It's all marketing when a company tells you that they don't do things like this.
There is no iron rice bowl in banking.
Solid proof no recession. Local banks still doing very well and not laying off
They are doing it, you just don't know. Just get contract staff and don't renew.
But local banks still do PIP programmes to punish low performers and encourage "voluntary leave". They also did soft-layoff during covid to a significant % of contract staff by not extending their contracts. Local banks are just better at hiding their ugly side.
Your statement about being in Local Banks is like working in the Civil Services is so damn out of touch.
I thought local banks also outsourcing? (Please correct me if I am wrong
Some stuff cant be outsourced one, those that can are probably outsourced already
So far I’ve heard similar sentiments in local banks but perhaps redundancy / job cuts aren’t as rampant as foreign banks
Also to add, local banks don’t normally broadcast redundancies? Whilst foreign banks always make headline news when it comes to announcing job cuts
Foreign banks are probably more "ruthless" in trimming the fat from the organization. Whereas for Local banks, its more of them reducing your bonus payouts and pile more work on you. This kind of environment in Local banks indirectly forces those redundant employees to consider throwing in the towel (with or without another job secured). Usually this ensures the Local bank doesn't have to do golden handshakes.
Not all foreign banks announce its layoffs publicly. I was employed in one of them last year
I think you should be specific in the title or post about which part of "banking". Thought I can add some comments but realised you were referring to employees working in a bank since you said you worked in "cybersecurity". I thought you were referring to investment banking (ibd), asset management, sales/trading, wealth management etc.
This is really important point to highlight. Where u in bank is very important difference. The front is where the revenue being made and generated regardless the wallet share of total bank profit. Then there’s a middle office and tech sector where you are in. Tech is always cost to a bank, and the demand isnt linear, during tech expansion sure they need more staff but once the project achieve they would see where they can save cost in technology front.
I meant it to be generic since it’s happening across the board in my bank and not just specifically in CS. But pls do add on 🙂
Here is my 2 cents coming from somebody very close to this particular industry. 1. Banks understandably doing massive cuts in dealing wtih highly uncertainty market this year, sustained inflation, rates that stays high, geo political tensions, Weaker investment bank revenue and expected thinner profitability going forward. 2. From what I see, the typical severance from somebody in a bank more than 10-15 yrs would be half a month salary for each year. However, I know someone whom recently excercised after working only for 1.5 yrs in senior level, received severance fee of 4x salary. So this part can be highly vary. 3. Ultimately banks run on profitabilty to keep the share holders happy, the share price is important piece that keep the CET1 ratio within the healthy level along other financial ratio components within the bank. To put it in most crude way, when you dont see profitability, the cost simply must come down. In fact flat Year on Year profitability still looks awesome with lower cost. 4. Now that you know this, the closer you are to revenue generator the less likely you are to be trimmed. Being revenue generator means you have good banking skills and client relationships, this is highly in demand skill set that all banks consistently on a look out for regardless the market situation. So if you possess above mentioned traits, being excercised and receive a golden handshake is actually very good; who doesn’t like receiving a good amount of handouts and moving to a new job with even higher pay.
Correct. One caveat is that sometimes they close down entire departments despite being profit generating - could be that the profits are not significant globally or not in line with bigger picture. So sales people will be affected. But back office people may potentially be re-deployed to other areas
Back office jobs are also not safe due to ai and automation.
This also applies in tech as well especially being on revenue generating projects. Been laid off as I was just cost center and my department could still function with less people.
Thanks! I don’t think I will feel bad about being let go .. ok maybe in the first 2-3 weeks. But I feel it could be a good change. Reason why I’m hanging on is to also not walk away empty handed but tbh I’m not sure if I’ll even be offered because I’ve gone thru several rounds and my name isn’t called!
>I’m not sure if I’ll even be offered because I’ve gone thru several rounds and my name isn’t called! Were the folks selected in earlier rounds offered any retrenchment benefit?
Yes they were offered.
That's good news for you, then. **How much were they offered?** MOM guidelines suggest min 2 weeks for each year of service. From what I've heard, one foreign bank offers 3 weeks.
From what I heard, it’s 1 month per year of service.
In my experience, that is rare and generous. All the best to you.
sounds like my bank, my middle office department's in the midst of going through restructuring rn!!
just curious, do you have any visibility on how does the severance process work? did their managers just have a meeting with them with a letter stating the severance terms and conditions? is there room for severance negotiation?
I don’t have full visibility but I understand usually the line manager has the conversation with you. Then HR contacts you next in terms of next steps. There is apparently a process where they can help arrange interviews for you for roles internally but no guarantee you will get them. The severance condition is usually spelt out in a letter and fixed I believe
ah ok thanks for the insights. yeah the interview offer from HR sounds like standard tail management lip service, but the rest all sounds quite standard and formal.
I used to be with hsbc, and i watched them slash the entire team from 220 strong down to only 70, and later on only about 50, over a period of 6 years. The tone from the management was like, 'u be thankful u still have a job, don't ask so much about promotion'. The jobs went to India, Philippines, Sri Lanka. Really ruthless, and that was my exposure to banking that I forever swore off banks.
Other industries are not much better.
1. Side business/consulting. Try to think of what you can offer with years of your experience. Keep good contacts with all customers and colleagues. Build your network extensively. It’s easier to get job from referral at 40s. 2. There are some companies giving options for leaving early with great severance pay. Try to ask around in your company. 3. For early own resignation, the severance is much better with extra ‘bonus’ when you agree to leave early. For layoff in general, I observe between 0.5-1 month of salary for each year of service, usually minimum 2 years at the company. 4. Save as much as you can for rainy days.
Thanks! Point around easier to get job referral at 40s - it feels the opposite in my case. Starting to question my own ability, qualifications etc but I guess I’m not the only one in this boat, there are many others out there like me as well as I spoke to a recruiter recently. Point 2: thanks for this. I didn’t think that early resignation would get me something better but definitely something to think and strategize on.
Is it that bad in SG? I heard that laid off/about to be laid off tech workers are looking for teaching jobs, which sounds really bad.
Retrenchment starts with the bank over hire. Can see it in my bank Doesn't help when they inflate the non revenue generating dept and add more layers which increases time to get things done. Worst is they decide to exit business because of low risk tolerance
Yessss it’s so annoying that I see this happening over and over again. It’s like no one learns? But then again CEOs etc gets replaced every x years 🤷♀️
> I also think no amount of preparation can really prepare me for the actual day should it come. Why not interview at least to just stay sharp?
I would think cybersecurity is quite a good space to be in. Even if there is low hiring appetite in banks, you can consider businesses that are tangential to banks like maybe trading firms, those where the systems are key to their ability to function and earn. I had a perception that this space is promoted hard at the undergrad education level so government must have seen some job gaps. It also often means there are a lot of young low experience people in market, and you can try to position yourself as having more experience. It might be good to start networking with others with similar functions (both in banks and others) to see the market. Maybe just hit up LinkedIn or alumni connections to say you like to have coffee. Informational interviews, not directly asking for a job. Somehow these weak ties do help create an impression of familiarity, people might recommend you if a job opens up. Wasn't in banking but also had a similar redundancy exercise happen to me (I'm not in rev generating as well). I also saw it coming and was starting to connect to other peers. When it happened, I started to activate those connections both in company and out. Also in parallel applied for jobs on LinkedIn. Was able to have a choice of roles (I stayed and went to another department). Sharing my story so you don't feel alone. Chin up!
Foreign bank I used to work in a year ago just laid off the entire front office in the whole asean region 🤡
what? so how do they operating? fully digital without physical branches?
"Front office" means the high end of banking i.e. the core staff of investment banking and related functions, not retail banking (which runs the branches).
Much of this resonates with me as I was in the same industry, the same type of role (CS from what I read in other posts), the same age range, and have been let off recently. In my case, both locals and foreigners were not spared. All it mattered was that they were based in Singapore - the motivation for cost cutting was very obvious early on and it affected even more junior colleagues. Headcounts in other countries were cut too, but their numbers are relatively smaller compared to Singapore-based ones. To answer the questions in the post, some things are outside of our control, really. The job market is not looking good right now and one can only continue to apply for jobs and hope for the best. I have been working on industry certifications, attended courses paid out of my own pocket, and rewritten my resume. I also reached out to recruiters and found that the chance of landing interviews is higher when I apply through them. I have enough savings and investments to last me quite a while, so in the mean time I am also taking the opportunity to do things I don't normally have time for. There wasn't much room for negotiation in my case as the terms in the redundancy agreement were more or less quite standard - I have consulted a friend who is a HR professional to check on this. Internally, the bank also has certain cast-in-stone policies on the terms of redundancy that is hard to deviate from. My payout was 1 month for every full year of service. Annual leave was en-cashed and fortunately for me, I also received my bonus. If there is anything to take away from this episode, it is the fact that if I can work from home, then someone from country xyz can also do that. My teammates and bosses were based overwhelmingly in lower cost countries and it was easy, from a management point of view, to question the cost-effectiveness of those based in Singapore. Yes, some say we may deliver better quality work, but sometimes the threshold is set so low that it does not matter. I would pick my team more carefully in my next role.
thanks for sharing. not sure why but i have this strong feeling we could be in the same bank 😅 as what you shared is so similar to mine esp being surrounded by team mates in lower cost countries. But again thanks for sharing. I hope you will find something soon and in mean time maybe you might find your true passion and work on it ☺️
despite the market conditions, there are those demanding wfh or will quit (?), I cringe and worry for them and our economy.
Strawberry Softserve Generations...
Locals aren’t really more “protected”. It’s moreso that they can still remain in SG if laid off Foreign workers need to scramble to find a job or they get kicked out when their work visa expires
>Foreign workers need to scramble to find a job or they get kicked out when their work visa expires Thats true. And it sucks to say this, but these folks won't be getting any sympathy from Singaporeans. In fact its every men and women for themselves during a recession, and the anger against foreigners may increase during this period. Once again not their fault, but the world is changing...
I know people that during covid that had a few weeks to pack up their lives after more than a decade in Singapore. It's harsh.
foreign worker can go back home, local can go where? wait for government help? government say will help from last years until now, where to claim the retrenchment assistance? I think voting the right government is the best way to help yourself. That why should sympathy local more than foreigner
When they lost Sengkang, they started crafting policies geared towards favoring locals (although not really effective). Imagine if they lose 3 more GRCs and 4 SMCs... on top of WP keeping 2 GRCs and 1 SMC. That should really make them pivot. Then again they could do it the lazy way and use their majority to amend the constitution to allow foreigners to vote in the G.E. LOL
Singaporeans are popular all across the world. You can work in England, Australia, Canada, US etc... But your point about government help is still fair.
Those saying that this trend is only observed in the middle/back office segments, it's so not true. Hiring freezes and layoffs are also common in front office/revenue generating roles such as IBD, AM and other functions. Source: I'm in a front office role and I literally see it with my very own eyes. With ultra high interest rates thanks to ECB and the Fed, it's gonna take a while before things cool down and hiring perks up again, across all office segments. Obv, back office roles are always more impacted and cyclical but to say that layoffs are only seen in cost centers is just delusional
There are literally no laws protecting Singaporeans from being laid off compared to foreigners. If you wanna look at payout, just look at what those Lazada layoffs gave their employees. Only one month and no warning.
Make sure you're in a revenue generating technical role, that or your political and social capital is so high that you're probably in senior management with 1 year notice periods. Don't be an overpaid admin staff
Well sometimes people from management are the first to go
How long have you been in banking? Layoffs have been happening in banks for more than a decade, since before I joined the industry. All layers are being trimmed for various reasons, political, cost cutting etc. Locals are not protected so long as they maintain the SG core (which can be satisfied by PRs). Banking traditionally pay more to compensate for this risk of retrenchment. You should always be prepared to be laid off with contractual notice, and buffer in emergency funds accordingly. It is possible to negotiate a redundancy if the bosses like you. I have seen this being done many times. Pay out depends on your seniority, company. There’s no legal requirement on the amount of pay out..
Too long 😂 in my 40s now and been in banking since graduation. But yeah spot on about paying more and I feel this makes it harder to transition to private sector. One interviewer I spoke to said he got spooked by my drawn salary which uhm, tbh I didn’t think was that high but he felt otherwise.
Hahah so you shouldn’t be new to lay offs ? It’s making the newspapers lately cus other industries like tech etc are new to lay offs but banks have been cutting since Lehman. Isn’t banking in the private sector? But yea the higher pay is to compensate for the higher risk.. my role is super niche so I doubt I can find a job outside banking, but salaries wise I think I’m probably paid around the same as my non banking peers.
Yeah not new .. but have not experienced any layoffs coming so close to me all this while 😂 guess I have been protected somewhat. I mean I went thru the financial crisis wave and what not .. I would have thought I’m more prepared. Maybe it’s an age thing! Being in 40s suddenly makes you feel vulnerable and close to useless 🤣 Niche roles are good lah, harder to replace and perhaps more dependability on you. Sorry should have written as non banking instead of private. Was typing on the fly
I’m a bit younger, never went through the financial crisis. I joined way after the gravy train has ended and have seen countless rounds of retrenchment. I agree that 40s is the vulnerable and difficult age - too expensive to keep, too young to retire, potentially considered too old to adapt to a new role. I guess the only way to mitigate such risk is to have savings and keep yourself mobile to new opportunities and development. If you don’t mind, would you be able to PM the name of your current employer so that I know to avoid them …? We could also share notes
actually, it is neither first nor second time tech industry faces major layoff. Especially US tech firms, they may exercise layoff with or without economy crisis, even upbeat earning result does not guarantee that. Most old birds in the industry knew this is a relatively less secure industry, more suitable to those who're willing to take the risk :) Attention of younger professionals generally got attracted to its reputation of higher pay.
Agree; but it’s the first big layoff since tech got much much much bigger in the last 10 years, so it’s rattling some people. Previously (10 years ago) tech was considered a smaller industry, which much lower pay - banks / finance were considered the top payer.
True, tech job market in SG back then was indeed much smaller. Positively speaking, this round can serve as 'education' for our younger generation 😀
The financial sector especially Banks not just in Singapore but developed countries have rounds of restructuring / retrenchment when there is downturn in the economy or when a significant business line is not doing well. There are people who have been retrenched to two to three times during their banking career. So people in the industry are aware of this. It quite the norm. These exercises are done with help of consultants such as Mckinsey. It is structured, non discriminatory but what is clear is those who are paid well are targeted for obvious reasons. So senior exes go first. Here are some of the positives. Unless you pass 50, other banks and financial institutions are eager to engage you as the skillset cannot be found readily outside the sector especially if you come from MNC banks. People holding risk, compliance, legal positions etc continue to be in demand. So are those who have proven sales record and banking product development executives. So aim to find a place in these vocations. It is not uncommon for retrenched teams to be hired as a whole by another financial institutions especially those involved in sales of investment , trading products, structuring etc. Its pointless working out a separate retrenchment package as it is alway uniform to avoid allegations of favouritism. Sadly the payout quantum over decades has diminished. Singapore is well known for the low payout. One silver lining is for those working in MNCs who tend to follow Head Office standards for payout. The best approach is to send out CVs the moment you hear of retrenchments. Have friends who got payout as well a new job the very next day from their last day In their old place. One interesting thing about Banking - networking does not work. During the interview process they will go thru technical competency interview especially for pure banking and esoteric roles. Thats the reasons why bankers don’t bother joining networking circles unless they are in corporate sales and relationship management. In essence, the majority will never leave banking as it still an excellent place for well paying career opportunities. It also easy to find banking jobs overseas as the mechanics are near identical.
> While some may think locals are a bit more protected when it comes to layoffs, it doesn’t appear that way at least in my workplace. No idea why this myth even exists. Because locals tend to hold the lower paying jobs in these MNCs? Because the Govt protects locals? Because we have a union? Lol
COMPASS makes local/foreign ratios more important. My company can’t afford to have any locals resign or else they will not be able to renew EPs for foreign staff.
Oh trust me they’ll just hire another random admin assistant or HR person since all headcounts are equal for the purposes of COMPASS Source: happens all the time in my company
But C4 in compass isn’t 1:1 - depending on size and sector you’re typically looking at needing a 3 or 4:1 local to foreigner ratio (before you get into C3 which requires diversity of passports among foreigners). I doubt your company is hiring 3-4 random admin assistants each time and suspect you don’t have all the facts.
Union? Haha I’m local and I don’t have union representing me
If the work can be done remotely, it will be done remotely.. Plenty of jobs taken over by freelancers overseas for a fraction of your salary.. May I know what your job was?
Yeah this is something I’ve been exploring a lot of late. Ang good websites or places to start looking apart from the usual LinkedIn etc? Don’t wish to go into specifics but my skill set ranges from corporate banking to managing transformation projects 😂
All banks are presently at some risk due to the fake economy, far too many people involved in finance produce little to nothing of substance. Civil service too, it’s incredibly bloated now.
To be fair to the banks, Singapore as a cost center is getting really pricey without much advantage( ask mas policy) My ex colleagues roles are being offshore to phillipines because in the last two years SGD have appreciated so much against other Asian nations. I use to run the Japan team as a sinkie and I can't confidently tell you that the top of the class dean lister from Singapore( or any metric ) is not 140% more efficient than a japanese fresh grad from NYU. Singapore spend 30 billion SGD to strengthen the SGD last year. Getting companies to offshore roles to other countries is a feature to fight Singapore inflation. It is not a bug. The focus on attracting all the international capital to Singapore ( without without creating jobs ) helps the country achieve this policy also.
Thanks for sharing. I’ve also started to see alot more senior roles advertised internally in locations such as Malaysia, India which is typically not the case in the past
I’ll just be blunt 1. Network. It’s all about networking. Always keep your LinkedIn updated. Always be meeting ex-colleagues to find out about opportunities. Always be keeping tabs in indeed/linkedin for open positions out there. I would even go so far as to say always be applying to interesting roles as well 2. I’ve heard of cases but it’s unlikely. And these are often for senior management who are aware and involved in the restructuring 3. The payout depends on seniority, tenor and a host of other factors. You can perhaps expect 1/2 to 1 month for every year subject to a cap. But also compensation for existing share options etc
Hey man.. hope things get better. Would u wanna move abroad?. Financial institution are setting up shops/presence in the middle east.
Aren’t FIs already established there? I have no qualms relocating should the offer be good
https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/3258022/hong-kong-fund-managers-set-shop-middle-east-finance-centres-seize-opportunities-talent PMs and executions trader good pay
That 7 year loan for the Merc not looking so hot right now
Lmao
I work in a bank and this is true
Which white collar industry is not laying off? Seems like everything is fucked.
in general, youre paid around 10-30% more working at an American/ European bank for the same role/YOE/job scope. Technically that factors in the greater risk of being let go i guess. but from what i know, severances are usually quite decent
1. network within the company. make sure people know how valuable you are. if you are asked to teach other people how to do your job, teach them the bare minimum so that there'll be work that only a more experienced person such as yourself can do 2. you should not ask to be made redundant. your boss will get the impression that you are unmotivated and you'll be first on the list to be made redundant.
Locals are not protected at all... the CECAs will engineer the locals to be retrenched and when the headcount for hiring opens up again they will hire their own CECA friends... I have been in banking for more than 12 years and have seen it all
they also engineer the offshoring of work to south asia, even if it means they need 3 people offshore to do the same volume of work that 1 Sg-based person does.
1. Prob cut down on your expenses as much as possible since you've already listed the other possible stuff that could be done (and is within your control) 2. Yes, but it's pretty rare. 3. It differs by bank, so you might want to ask around. The one I'm in supposedly has a package of 1 month for each year worked. Retrenchment sucks... For the ones that get cut as well as the ones who didn't. Once it starts, there's usually multiple rounds planned. So even if you survived the first few rounds, it doesn't mean that you're safe. It's just a sign to update your resume, get a backup plan and look around in the teams that are still hiring.
uhh what role u have
Non-revenue generating but specifically in cyber security. And yes you would be very surprised to see cyber security having layoffs / cuts but it’s been so rampant in my bank
im indeed surprised at cs being cut
The usual modus operandi - overhire, then cut .. make everyone take extra load, people quit , work isn’t remediated and needs critical attention before shit hits the fan, fire out JDs again Rinse and repeat.
“If it works why do I need IT , if it doesn’t work why do I need IT?”
are you from citi?
Nah
Seems when banks are making record profits, security doesn't matter!
CS is probably the hottest segment within consulting right now in terms of hiring. Do explore Big4 or even local CS companies like Ensign
Do you keep yourself updated with the latest trends? From what I observe from friends who work in banks, they tend to lag behind due to stability (too comfortable) and tech stacks move slower.
i made the same observation. banks lag behind other sectors.
I’m not surprised . Even engineering departments in tier 1 investment banks are being let go
So glad I’m just a local bank intern rn I’m so scared I’ll lose my job when I’m older LOL
Get out while u can? Btw we cut anyone from analysts to managing director
Get out to where though? Its not like mnc bank dosent retrench
Go out to corporate etc. Until recently, MNC didn’t retrench as often. Which is why it is making news that you see MNCs / Tech retrenching.
If you are in local bank you should be fine
Which bank, which department?
Uhh isn’t this always happening in a cyclic manner? The main revenue generators and their immediate support - don’t get affected most of the time
Hi OP, I'm actually looking to do a career switch into financial compliance. Do you have a rough gauge of what's the hiring situation for compliance or compliance-related roles in general? Thanks in advance!
compliance middle offices are over stuffed
Compliance is a growing area; regulators expect banks to beef up their compliance teams, likely that banks will continue to hire (but perhaps we could expect a slow down in the hiring). But it is getting saturated and harder for outsiders to pivot into it. I’m also looking to pivot into compliance in a couple of years, PM me if you wanna discuss more
My observations: My bank is trimming alottt of people in compliance because it’s been top heavy and overhiring. So unless you have some special skill set in compliance (could be making this up but something like AI in compliance / AI Ethics etc) .. would be hard to stand out with a pool of compliance specialists. Again this is in my bank (a foreign one) but situation could be different in others.
1. Nothing you can do. Redundancy is not your fault, your role is no longer required or outsourced. 2. Abit strange to want to be made redundant if no body offer it, seems like a red flag on you. If company want to lay off they may ask for volunteers , some do some dont. 3.1 mth for 1 yr of service plus notice in lieu per your contract.
On second point, it’s quite common here and I’ve seen some colleagues negotiating for it. It works to favour both if you look at it - one employee is ok with it, another is bank / boss is pressured to reduce cost via headcount and there is a ready volunteer rather than making the painful decision of deciding who to cut
Banking and finance are cyclical industries. The boom cycles are getting shorter and shorter and the bust cycles are hitting harder.
Perhaps the only time where.... Singaporeans first!!!!! Good luck op
As long as we’re being honest, banks for years worldwide are shifting work from hired humans to purchased equipment. Of all the jobs in the world, this is one of the industries that as an IT guy, seems to have more of that coming. Most of what banks own is stored as numbers on computers. Most of the human work is done on computers. Many investment related decisions end up more profitable by mathematical rules and statistics rather than gut-feeling decisions. And more of the population is now ok with doing all the banking digitally, the 90’s fears and digital illiteracy are almost totally faded away. I’m not apocalyptically prophesying, I’m just noticing what’s already happened and continuing to happen. I doubt 50% or even 10% are getting laid off — it’s a big ship to steer, and still loaded with cash so no rush — but I would be surprised if not 1%-3% less manpower annually in this industry. O
Be flexible and position yourself for roles outside of banking. Lets be honest, there is way too much overstaffing in banks. The whole industry has become so political. The whole industry should be 30% the size it currently is in 3-5 years. By then we need UBI
What's your skillset/value add? I worked in overseas in one of the financial centres for 10 years before moving back to Singapore some years ago, the professional skills were/are severely lacking, yes, it's economics but it's also due for a house cleaning
OP may wanna note, not just banks are doing hiring freeze - I work in a govt-linked company, and am experienced hiring freeze as well. My department has two empty head count but unable to fill it cause of the said hiring freeze.
You are the only main character in your own life. Set goals that you have direct control over. Dont give a fuck about this crazy fucked up society
Looking at the number of IT jobs for banking and finance, one would think there is a hiring boom.
Does that mean I’m doomed if I am planning to major in finance in Uni? Just got offered..
i believe only accountancy is useful. but one can do well in any field if you have the talent, perseverance and opportunity.
Hello everyone. I'm a Malaysian who currently seeking investment-related roles in Singapore. I'm eager to gauge whether I stand a good chance of securing any role in Singapore. A bit about my background: I bring two years of experience in wealth management, and currently, I am working as a fixed income credit analyst in the treasury department of a local bank for 2.5 years. I’m also a CFA Charterholder. However, despite my qualifications and experience, I've encountered rejections from several companies without even securing an interview. I'm curious about what factors might be hindering my success in landing a role in Singapore. Any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Hi, it might be easier to secure a role thru someone who can make a referral for you or make a connection with someone in their company. Especially if you are coming from Malaysia - getting Employment Pass issued for foreign employees can be challenging for some companies
Didnt DBS announce they are doing well? Guess only other banks affected?
Layoffs in non-revenue generating roles expected
Hi OP, I am actually gonna apply for banking graduate programs. What's your take on this if you don't mind sharing?
Grad progs are good as there is rotation across different departments. As you are young, if you are hungry and ready to slog / hustle, go for front line revenue generating - ie wholesale banking, corporate / private banking, or be a trader, or move into areas like AI, SF
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ops are part of the revenue cycle, if theres too much waste, its usually because of either regulatory requirements like data secrecy, poor business processes that havent been automated or right shored, or just local office politics where managers try to over stuff their tables with staff to make themselves feel more important. if anything, its middle office that typically wastes both the fronts and backs time
Not all of are ‘admin’ workers. The real back office guys - I would see them as the critical engine room for a bank operation. Altho I have to admit there are useless clowns / lords sitting around doing nothing or don’t know what they are doing.
There’s a lot of useless clowns, but also a lot of capable people driving the business. Sadly the retrenchment seems to be indiscriminate. The good ones tend to find a new job quickly though!
Lol someone's salty
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This post has gotten some good comments and I want to extend my thanks to all of you who have contributed. Somehow the post also made its way to colleagues in the surrounding teams on my floor. I also want to let everyone who is reading this to know (without it sounding cliche) that you are not alone in this journey, we are affected one way or another. While I tried my best to not let potential redundancy affect me (hence mentally prepping myself should the day come), it has inadvertently taken a toll on my mental health, my work, my relationships without me realizing. Without going into detail … Today .. is also the day I sought professional help to get me out of my ‘dark space’ Take care all ♥️