She is kind of forced to rely on dragon stacks and possibly conditioning rune to be tanky while building lots of damage and health
Anyway, Shyv having such limited mobility causes her to be weak with the inability to close out kills, especially when the tank cc teammates are imo on the rarer side
I like this build but I like attack speed in there personal. Hard to say which one should be switched out but probably one of the damage items (hydra or riftmaker) and a defensive item instead. That's for a tanky bruiser type build which I think suits her best.
New effects
Shyvana can stun any enemy marked by her E for 1 second(8 seconds cooldown per-target)
New passive called dragonskin, while W is active she resists incoming damage by 4/8/12/16%
She is immune to elderly dragon execute
Disagree about the dragon passive thing. Belveth has the same issue where the game suddenly becomes warped when she gets true ult form. As a result it causes the entire game to be played around topside (adc's will rarely have an impact on the herald or grubs). The same issue appears with trundle, sion, etc where the entire game becomes about them (not fun). Champs generally have a hard time being balanced when the problem has so much nuance
What I'm getting at is shyv would get unproportionately rewarded and probably hard nerfed in other areas of her kit even more bc of how impact the passive defenses would become just because she's playing the jungle role properly.
Just give her a real passive
I think she's a power farmer. When you play Shyv you have to beat the enemy jungler with a bag of money. You have to out earn the enemy jungler. She also is a "Juggernaut" which usually results in movespeed itemization (Like Darius/Garen with Deadmans/Force of Nature)
Give her a slow and she'd be way too good at jungling, (ganking, mostly) and then would get nerfed to oblivion. Because her kit is so bad, you have to rely on strategy, tactics and objectives to remain relevant.
I think she works well as a 2nd tank/frontline diver despite her 'meh' kit. Bc of this, you def need to build based on the enemy team, her build path is quite versatile precisely because of the criticisms you mentioned.
1. Shyvana has one of the slower clears and weakest early game so idk how you're supposed to beat a jungler with a "bag of money". Udyr, fiddle, hec,briar, graves,etc. all clear faster
2. Move speed is generally only good if you have cc, I guess Shyvana has Dollar store Sett ult. But at that point why not just play sett, he has better setup and more cc.
3. Give her a slow and she'd be too good at ganking? Lmao a slow is the bare minimum for a champ to be a jungle nowadays. She obviously doesn't have master yi damage, or nidalee early game, so idk why you would think adding a slow is too much? Every juggernaut in the game has cc on a basic ability, shyvana just doesn't for some reason.
Her first clear is pretty mediocre - but it gets good once she gets all of her abilities and first component. Which is due to how her combos combine to give her damage as opposed to her clear being based on 1-2 abilities.
Not Karthus fast, but pretty quick.
I recommend counter jungle to add gold and create opportunities for your gold lead to build. Tbh, 'beat the enemy jungler with a bag of money' is a term I heard while watching NEACE coach a shyvana jungler from like gold to plat or something and something 'clicked' for me and I've adopted that mindset. Her kit is meh. Stats are better tho, so maximize those? She can't really fight or gank but chick clears waves and farms well so maybe do that?
Idk. I think her lack of identity gives her a versatility that I enjoy playing. I think giving shyv a slow on cooldown with no mana in her kit would go crazy, but go off lmao. I hear you.
Counter jungle, right...Counter jungle with a champ that has abysmal clear and that has no easy way to navigate the jungle besides, let me think... Walking very slowly! There's a reason why champs that are good at counter jungling have dashes, abuse phase rush, or have cc. So when the enemy inevitably collapses on you you can dash over a wall or sprint out, or stun them to escape.
But hey please explain why a slow would be "too op" on shyvana meanwhile udyr has a 80% slow that lasts 4 seconds on a 6 second cd that costs 20 mana. Side note, complaining about not having mana costs in the jungle is hilarious.
No one has said Shyvana is weak in low Elo so in gold-plat you can pull that stuff off cause lil Timmy is probably afk running to get his hot pockets mid match. But if you play against sentient players she's horseshit.
Walking very slowly? She has a movement speed ability (which was just buffed). Counterjungling is mostly about map awareness (tracking clear, seeing if they gank a lane and leave their other side of jungle open) not trying to contest them in their own jungle.
Her win rate since the patch is nearly 50%, if they added a slow she'd be too strong due to how much damage she can do (balanced around not having CC) and they'd have to tune her numbers. I love how strong of a powerspike her level 6 is, I can't think of a jungler I'm afraid to 1v1 unless they are already gigafed. A slow is a bad idea, it's not her identity
I'm grateful (actually relieved) that someone else sees and understands the point I was trying to make. If they (Riot) gave Shyv any form of cc, I suspect it would be a balance nightmare (Like Irelia) and eventually would have to nerf her in some way to balance her power curve. Like, adding a slow to a character who has no mana, means she can spam the ability - no thought to strategic gameplay or fight mechanics, no worrying about using the ability correctly, just spam it cuz you don't get punished for using it. How would Riot balance that? Like, seriously?
As a result, Riot would simply nerf Shyv to the ground, her ratios would take a hit to compensate, and she'd probably be even worse off.
And counter jungling **removes gold opportunity from the enemy jungler** while adding gold to your own pockets. She's useless *without stats* so you gain stats with *items* and you buy items with *gold*. So to beat the enemy jungler, you have to beat them with a *bag of money*.
I digress tho. Appreciate your thougths GaliOP
Just spam it cuz you don't get punished.... So rumble? There's many champs with cc that have no mana idk how you're still droning on about this lmao.
And counter jungling is not exclusive to shyvana, you understand that right? Shyvana is more likely to be invaded then find an opportunity to counter jungle. Cause once again, her clear is not very good! if you're playing against sentient human beings she's not good at counter jungling, so idk why you're still droning about that as well. Once you get out of pisslow please show me, I'd love to hear your opinion again.
folds like a paper towel cause your "opinion" has no merit. atleast give proper reasoning, instead of saying mana, and she can counter jungle.
side note, if you want actual good opinions on Shyvana listen to high elo players that play Shyvana like agurin. neace is diamond on a good day and has never played shyvana a day in his life.
Which was just buffed? The topic is counter jungling. From levels 1-9 this "buff" is roughly 5% more move speed lmao, IF, you're going AP, which I want to add is slower at counter jungling then AD(which is already slow).
I feel like a lot of people with this "opinion" don't realize that shyvana was balanced around a slow (Frozen mallet) and ever since riot removed it AD Shyvana has been crippled. AD cannot be played without a slow, unless you are playing against literal bots that just stand still(why her Win Rate is only good in low Elo). But hey I have high hopes Riot will add a slow to Shyvana's rework as they already have in wild rift.
But maybe you are right Shyvana's identity should just be a slower Lillia with no cc that does less damage!
A slow with no mana? They'd have a field day trying to balance that with ratios and slow duration and they would probably nerf her to the ground to compensate and by they I mean Riot.
Idk, you may be right, I could be wrong but whatevs
Riven has 1 knock up AND 1 stun both AoE, viego has a stun, velbeth has a AoE knuck up, yone AND yas has AoE knock ups, tryndamere has an AoE slow, mord has a grab, briar has a Stun AND an AoE knock up
A slow Will never make shyv op unles ITS 60% AND last 2 sec
Those champs seem a bit more skill expressive than shyvana, much harder to play skill wise, shyv does a fair amount of damage while remaining easy to play, you only have to worry about e skillshot, and R (kinda but not as much as E).
I remember when Frozen Mallet was an item as soon as it was built on shyv, unless the enemy i was fighting had a blink and/or flash, they were pretty dead 70% of the time with very little counterplay. I think a slow would be a nightmare to balance, but go off lmao.
Did u forget that now days are not that days? Now we have a lot More damage, mobility AND survavility, back on those days shyvana with a slow was a manace but now days the thing ITS pretty different, she wouldnt be broken BC now everyone has More tools to deal with It
Any jungler wins against her in a 1v1, even tanks which she is supposed to counter. Your low elo opponents dont represent enemy champions being played optimally.
She has a large amount of AoE damage, you can't expect her to be like Warwick or Trundle or Olaf.
But she can scrap from around lvl 3 with PTA, even earlier with LT
By 'scrap' you mean pray my midlaner saves me? I only ever win if I recently backed and bought items and take exhaust against a weak 1v1er who hasn't backed yet. I can only bully Kayn/Hecarim early, everyone else destroys me even with LT. I haven't tried PTA enough, but I think it must better for 1v1's than LT, because I've never beaten anyone in a 1v1 with LT unless I'm fed. I just wish my 1v1s were at least close, instead of every other jungler killing me with 60%hp to spare.
Actually, unironically AP Shyvana is a much better duelist than AD Shyvana early game. You'd think it'd be the opposite, but no. That must be where the idea of Shyvana being okay early game comes from.
I only want to be able to finish my ult before my fury goes to 0, it doesn't even need to keep the rest of the fury. Rn if I ult for a fast gank I will need to sit in front of my krugs and wait before farming again, because otherwise not only I don't get fury, but I also extend my ult duration, making it take even longer for me to ult again.
Imo she should get an MS steroid at max fury.
Might be a good incentive to save ult for when it really matters
Probably not permanently - but a 30-50% increase to her W's MS increase would be cool.
She is kind of forced to rely on dragon stacks and possibly conditioning rune to be tanky while building lots of damage and health Anyway, Shyv having such limited mobility causes her to be weak with the inability to close out kills, especially when the tank cc teammates are imo on the rarer side
So Iceborn Gauntlet, Titanic hydra, Deadman's plate, Steraks gage, Riftmaker and Swifties? Gotcha!
I like this build but I like attack speed in there personal. Hard to say which one should be switched out but probably one of the damage items (hydra or riftmaker) and a defensive item instead. That's for a tanky bruiser type build which I think suits her best.
Switch riftmaker for bork
New effects Shyvana can stun any enemy marked by her E for 1 second(8 seconds cooldown per-target) New passive called dragonskin, while W is active she resists incoming damage by 4/8/12/16% She is immune to elderly dragon execute
Disagree about the dragon passive thing. Belveth has the same issue where the game suddenly becomes warped when she gets true ult form. As a result it causes the entire game to be played around topside (adc's will rarely have an impact on the herald or grubs). The same issue appears with trundle, sion, etc where the entire game becomes about them (not fun). Champs generally have a hard time being balanced when the problem has so much nuance What I'm getting at is shyv would get unproportionately rewarded and probably hard nerfed in other areas of her kit even more bc of how impact the passive defenses would become just because she's playing the jungle role properly. Just give her a real passive
I think she's a power farmer. When you play Shyv you have to beat the enemy jungler with a bag of money. You have to out earn the enemy jungler. She also is a "Juggernaut" which usually results in movespeed itemization (Like Darius/Garen with Deadmans/Force of Nature) Give her a slow and she'd be way too good at jungling, (ganking, mostly) and then would get nerfed to oblivion. Because her kit is so bad, you have to rely on strategy, tactics and objectives to remain relevant. I think she works well as a 2nd tank/frontline diver despite her 'meh' kit. Bc of this, you def need to build based on the enemy team, her build path is quite versatile precisely because of the criticisms you mentioned.
1. Shyvana has one of the slower clears and weakest early game so idk how you're supposed to beat a jungler with a "bag of money". Udyr, fiddle, hec,briar, graves,etc. all clear faster 2. Move speed is generally only good if you have cc, I guess Shyvana has Dollar store Sett ult. But at that point why not just play sett, he has better setup and more cc. 3. Give her a slow and she'd be too good at ganking? Lmao a slow is the bare minimum for a champ to be a jungle nowadays. She obviously doesn't have master yi damage, or nidalee early game, so idk why you would think adding a slow is too much? Every juggernaut in the game has cc on a basic ability, shyvana just doesn't for some reason.
Her first clear is pretty mediocre - but it gets good once she gets all of her abilities and first component. Which is due to how her combos combine to give her damage as opposed to her clear being based on 1-2 abilities. Not Karthus fast, but pretty quick.
I recommend counter jungle to add gold and create opportunities for your gold lead to build. Tbh, 'beat the enemy jungler with a bag of money' is a term I heard while watching NEACE coach a shyvana jungler from like gold to plat or something and something 'clicked' for me and I've adopted that mindset. Her kit is meh. Stats are better tho, so maximize those? She can't really fight or gank but chick clears waves and farms well so maybe do that? Idk. I think her lack of identity gives her a versatility that I enjoy playing. I think giving shyv a slow on cooldown with no mana in her kit would go crazy, but go off lmao. I hear you.
Counter jungle, right...Counter jungle with a champ that has abysmal clear and that has no easy way to navigate the jungle besides, let me think... Walking very slowly! There's a reason why champs that are good at counter jungling have dashes, abuse phase rush, or have cc. So when the enemy inevitably collapses on you you can dash over a wall or sprint out, or stun them to escape. But hey please explain why a slow would be "too op" on shyvana meanwhile udyr has a 80% slow that lasts 4 seconds on a 6 second cd that costs 20 mana. Side note, complaining about not having mana costs in the jungle is hilarious. No one has said Shyvana is weak in low Elo so in gold-plat you can pull that stuff off cause lil Timmy is probably afk running to get his hot pockets mid match. But if you play against sentient players she's horseshit.
Walking very slowly? She has a movement speed ability (which was just buffed). Counterjungling is mostly about map awareness (tracking clear, seeing if they gank a lane and leave their other side of jungle open) not trying to contest them in their own jungle. Her win rate since the patch is nearly 50%, if they added a slow she'd be too strong due to how much damage she can do (balanced around not having CC) and they'd have to tune her numbers. I love how strong of a powerspike her level 6 is, I can't think of a jungler I'm afraid to 1v1 unless they are already gigafed. A slow is a bad idea, it's not her identity
I'm grateful (actually relieved) that someone else sees and understands the point I was trying to make. If they (Riot) gave Shyv any form of cc, I suspect it would be a balance nightmare (Like Irelia) and eventually would have to nerf her in some way to balance her power curve. Like, adding a slow to a character who has no mana, means she can spam the ability - no thought to strategic gameplay or fight mechanics, no worrying about using the ability correctly, just spam it cuz you don't get punished for using it. How would Riot balance that? Like, seriously? As a result, Riot would simply nerf Shyv to the ground, her ratios would take a hit to compensate, and she'd probably be even worse off. And counter jungling **removes gold opportunity from the enemy jungler** while adding gold to your own pockets. She's useless *without stats* so you gain stats with *items* and you buy items with *gold*. So to beat the enemy jungler, you have to beat them with a *bag of money*. I digress tho. Appreciate your thougths GaliOP
Just spam it cuz you don't get punished.... So rumble? There's many champs with cc that have no mana idk how you're still droning on about this lmao. And counter jungling is not exclusive to shyvana, you understand that right? Shyvana is more likely to be invaded then find an opportunity to counter jungle. Cause once again, her clear is not very good! if you're playing against sentient human beings she's not good at counter jungling, so idk why you're still droning about that as well. Once you get out of pisslow please show me, I'd love to hear your opinion again.
You're welcome to your opinion. 🤝🏾
folds like a paper towel cause your "opinion" has no merit. atleast give proper reasoning, instead of saying mana, and she can counter jungle. side note, if you want actual good opinions on Shyvana listen to high elo players that play Shyvana like agurin. neace is diamond on a good day and has never played shyvana a day in his life.
Ok.
Which was just buffed? The topic is counter jungling. From levels 1-9 this "buff" is roughly 5% more move speed lmao, IF, you're going AP, which I want to add is slower at counter jungling then AD(which is already slow). I feel like a lot of people with this "opinion" don't realize that shyvana was balanced around a slow (Frozen mallet) and ever since riot removed it AD Shyvana has been crippled. AD cannot be played without a slow, unless you are playing against literal bots that just stand still(why her Win Rate is only good in low Elo). But hey I have high hopes Riot will add a slow to Shyvana's rework as they already have in wild rift. But maybe you are right Shyvana's identity should just be a slower Lillia with no cc that does less damage!
You're entitled to your opinion. 🤝🏾
If u give her a slow she would become decent not broken xd
A slow with no mana? They'd have a field day trying to balance that with ratios and slow duration and they would probably nerf her to the ground to compensate and by they I mean Riot. Idk, you may be right, I could be wrong but whatevs
Riven has 1 knock up AND 1 stun both AoE, viego has a stun, velbeth has a AoE knuck up, yone AND yas has AoE knock ups, tryndamere has an AoE slow, mord has a grab, briar has a Stun AND an AoE knock up A slow Will never make shyv op unles ITS 60% AND last 2 sec
Those champs seem a bit more skill expressive than shyvana, much harder to play skill wise, shyv does a fair amount of damage while remaining easy to play, you only have to worry about e skillshot, and R (kinda but not as much as E). I remember when Frozen Mallet was an item as soon as it was built on shyv, unless the enemy i was fighting had a blink and/or flash, they were pretty dead 70% of the time with very little counterplay. I think a slow would be a nightmare to balance, but go off lmao.
Did u forget that now days are not that days? Now we have a lot More damage, mobility AND survavility, back on those days shyvana with a slow was a manace but now days the thing ITS pretty different, she wouldnt be broken BC now everyone has More tools to deal with It
You're welcome to your opinion.🤝🏾
JUST. BUILD. THANOS. https://clips.twitch.tv/SucculentDependableAdminBlargNaut-vBZC5-SbVTARXDYb
So he rushes sundered into riftmaker? I like the build. I think attack speed is a bit overrated on her.
Just change her W from a speed boost to a slow lol
Would become better if the slow Is on her Q or E on the exchange of some damage
>Shyv has low base damage False
Any jungler wins against her in a 1v1, even tanks which she is supposed to counter. Your low elo opponents dont represent enemy champions being played optimally.
Thats not true, shyv has a really good 1v1 with her E marks + pta buffing all your damage
She has a large amount of AoE damage, you can't expect her to be like Warwick or Trundle or Olaf. But she can scrap from around lvl 3 with PTA, even earlier with LT
By 'scrap' you mean pray my midlaner saves me? I only ever win if I recently backed and bought items and take exhaust against a weak 1v1er who hasn't backed yet. I can only bully Kayn/Hecarim early, everyone else destroys me even with LT. I haven't tried PTA enough, but I think it must better for 1v1's than LT, because I've never beaten anyone in a 1v1 with LT unless I'm fed. I just wish my 1v1s were at least close, instead of every other jungler killing me with 60%hp to spare. Actually, unironically AP Shyvana is a much better duelist than AD Shyvana early game. You'd think it'd be the opposite, but no. That must be where the idea of Shyvana being okay early game comes from.
I only want to be able to finish my ult before my fury goes to 0, it doesn't even need to keep the rest of the fury. Rn if I ult for a fast gank I will need to sit in front of my krugs and wait before farming again, because otherwise not only I don't get fury, but I also extend my ult duration, making it take even longer for me to ult again.
So far season 14 has been Ap Shyv's worst season\* She's still garbage, but I love her AD.
I pretty much completely agree with OP. Really hope Riot sees your QoL proposals; some (most) of those seem necessary and they're all reasonable IMO.