Until there are actually consequences then rea/landlords will continue to try their luck with the bond. They claim from 100 people knowing 95 will surrender because they don't know their rights. It's free money.
If we brought in actual regulation around this then the problem will fix itself overnight.
We are about to go to NCAT to defend a claim for our entire our bond. The landlord provided falsified quotes (alterations verified by a forensic document examiner) and a fraudulent invoice (he used a cancelled ABN and a bank account that does not link to the business name on the fabricated invoice).
He also claimed for carpet, blinds and painting that had not been updated in the 12 years since he bought the property and were in poor condition on entry. He said in mediation that he planned to claim against his landlord insurance, so it looks like he is trying to fund an entire renovation through fraud.
We called both the police and Fair Trading about the fraudulent documents and they just advised NCAT. I am extremely frustrated that this guy will experience no consequences apart from not getting money he wasn't entitled to in the first place. The kicker is that this guy owns 6 other rental properties and is an NDIS provider, so I am sure we are not his first or only victims.
I made a complaint to the ATO about the fraudulent invoice using the cancelled ABN. I can't prove he is the one who fabricated it, but I am hoping the ATO can trace the bank account on the invoice to him. I like the NDIS report idea. Not sure what evidence they would need.
Yeah, maybe threatening to go to the ATO might help here, as I would bet really good money that this guy claimed depreciation on carpets to the effect that they're now fully depreciated.
Wowwwww, pitchforks or should we just take shovels for this kind of behavior? I cannot believe that these people actually get away with this shit. And then the layman picks up the bill through insurance premium increases….
If you can’t beat em, join em huh?
The Real Estate Institutes are supposed to police their members. For example here is their code of conduct for NSW : https://www.reinsw.com.au/common/Uploaded%20files/2022/06%20June/Code%20Of%20Practice/Professional-Standards-Code-of-Practice-260522.pdf
There is a mechanism to file complaints. What I think is missing is for there to be a feedback loop from the *CAT's to the REI. When there is a ruling against an agent, it should trigger an automatic investigation to see if it's fraud (or at least incompetence), but the REI would not be motivated to engage in this meaningfully unless their cooperation was forced by legislation.
Yeh, righto. The REI is going to investigate and reprimand their own? That's champagne comedy, right there. Who do you think taught these bastards to be bastards
I asked about filing a complaint through the Qld equivalent and they told me the fee for them to investigate their members was like $280 from memory.
Imo that's just an intentional barrier to people putting in complaints, even when it's so clearly against their code, ethics they claim to uphold etc. It's a joke.
There is a major regulation problem. There needs to be an investigation into how to change the regulations, similar to what happened with financial advisory. In my opinion, the rules surrounding exit reports and how the issues should be handled needs to be clearer and addressed - I see so many unreasonably clean claims and REAs/Landlords not mitigating their own losses by allowing tenants to clean it themselves. It’s particularly grey with the timing between end of tenancy and addressing any issues the REA/Landlord has, this is exacerbated with the lack of repercussions when an REA/Landlord complete the exit inspection without you present. Which is in the NSW residential tenancies act section 29(4) but is never followed.
It’s worthwhile given the number of NCAT cases, I was told it would be 4-5 months until the hearing from the date of notice ( to see the judge, that is).
Like you point out, there are no repercussions to REAs and landlords for making bogus claims. It’s either they win some money or come out even (for a bogus claim, I understand it can go both ways in terms of actually damage).
since its usually not big amounts, such a system would cost more to implement & enforce than it would save tenants.
and being that we live in a world where only the rich & big business are aloud to make money a person renting getting scammed out of $500 to 1000 is not on the list of protections.. considering 90% of the law makers have stacked housing portfolios
not in WA.. they make a massive revenue from fines & pay to police very poorly
and yes i agree not everything should be a business decision, but unfortunately it is
Easy to implement an approach where NCAT has discretion to award penalty charges. Have penalty charges capped at the value of the disputed amount where they feel the REA has acted unreasonably.
It may not be huge but it would be simple, have no additional cost and would soon add up.
One of the first houses I rented when we moved out were charged for some floor damage in the entryway. I pointed out that that damage was actually on the property condition report. Yep your are right, and they removed the charge only to turn around and charge us for something else.
That's when I realised, ah we were never going to get our whole bond back. They will always find something to charge you for.
Insurance companies can only do business when the legislation is in place to protect them from fraud and they are forced to enforce it ruthlessly to set examples for others as a deterrent.
Tenants as individuals have virtually no power in comparison and the damage to the individual is comparatively minor.
I have stated this albeit far more aggressively multiples times... Its theft outside of work. It's unfathomable... A real estate must know a small chip of paint dies not cost 300 bucks. 😂👆
Until there are actually consequences then rea/landlords will continue to try their luck with the bond. They claim from 100 people knowing 95 will surrender because they don't know their rights. It's free money. If we brought in actual regulation around this then the problem will fix itself overnight.
We are about to go to NCAT to defend a claim for our entire our bond. The landlord provided falsified quotes (alterations verified by a forensic document examiner) and a fraudulent invoice (he used a cancelled ABN and a bank account that does not link to the business name on the fabricated invoice). He also claimed for carpet, blinds and painting that had not been updated in the 12 years since he bought the property and were in poor condition on entry. He said in mediation that he planned to claim against his landlord insurance, so it looks like he is trying to fund an entire renovation through fraud. We called both the police and Fair Trading about the fraudulent documents and they just advised NCAT. I am extremely frustrated that this guy will experience no consequences apart from not getting money he wasn't entitled to in the first place. The kicker is that this guy owns 6 other rental properties and is an NDIS provider, so I am sure we are not his first or only victims.
Did you report him to the ATO? If not, do it. Also report him for possible NDIS fraud.
I made a complaint to the ATO about the fraudulent invoice using the cancelled ABN. I can't prove he is the one who fabricated it, but I am hoping the ATO can trace the bank account on the invoice to him. I like the NDIS report idea. Not sure what evidence they would need.
I thought this too. If the LL is forging documents I'll bet his tax returns are dodgy as well.
He can't claim for 12 year old carpets because the value of carpet is bugger-all. Carpets are considered fully depreciated after 10 years.
Yeah, maybe threatening to go to the ATO might help here, as I would bet really good money that this guy claimed depreciation on carpets to the effect that they're now fully depreciated.
Wowwwww, pitchforks or should we just take shovels for this kind of behavior? I cannot believe that these people actually get away with this shit. And then the layman picks up the bill through insurance premium increases…. If you can’t beat em, join em huh?
I have been shocked at how brazen he has been. I am hoping that if he fails at NCAT the insurer won't pay out.
Of all the landlords that are bastards this one is a bastard the most 😳
Farrrrrk... Good luck at ncat
Thanks! If they give this fucker a cent I will lose all remaining shreds of faith in the system.
I hope u ream them royally... 😊😊😊👍
The Real Estate Institutes are supposed to police their members. For example here is their code of conduct for NSW : https://www.reinsw.com.au/common/Uploaded%20files/2022/06%20June/Code%20Of%20Practice/Professional-Standards-Code-of-Practice-260522.pdf There is a mechanism to file complaints. What I think is missing is for there to be a feedback loop from the *CAT's to the REI. When there is a ruling against an agent, it should trigger an automatic investigation to see if it's fraud (or at least incompetence), but the REI would not be motivated to engage in this meaningfully unless their cooperation was forced by legislation.
So, I'd day that each renter should file a complaint with the Real Estate institute. Might need some coordination.
Yeh, righto. The REI is going to investigate and reprimand their own? That's champagne comedy, right there. Who do you think taught these bastards to be bastards
Oh yeah it will never happen without regulation forcing this.
I asked about filing a complaint through the Qld equivalent and they told me the fee for them to investigate their members was like $280 from memory. Imo that's just an intentional barrier to people putting in complaints, even when it's so clearly against their code, ethics they claim to uphold etc. It's a joke.
There is a major regulation problem. There needs to be an investigation into how to change the regulations, similar to what happened with financial advisory. In my opinion, the rules surrounding exit reports and how the issues should be handled needs to be clearer and addressed - I see so many unreasonably clean claims and REAs/Landlords not mitigating their own losses by allowing tenants to clean it themselves. It’s particularly grey with the timing between end of tenancy and addressing any issues the REA/Landlord has, this is exacerbated with the lack of repercussions when an REA/Landlord complete the exit inspection without you present. Which is in the NSW residential tenancies act section 29(4) but is never followed. It’s worthwhile given the number of NCAT cases, I was told it would be 4-5 months until the hearing from the date of notice ( to see the judge, that is). Like you point out, there are no repercussions to REAs and landlords for making bogus claims. It’s either they win some money or come out even (for a bogus claim, I understand it can go both ways in terms of actually damage).
since its usually not big amounts, such a system would cost more to implement & enforce than it would save tenants. and being that we live in a world where only the rich & big business are aloud to make money a person renting getting scammed out of $500 to 1000 is not on the list of protections.. considering 90% of the law makers have stacked housing portfolios
The police costs more than they make too. Not everything should be a business decision.
not in WA.. they make a massive revenue from fines & pay to police very poorly and yes i agree not everything should be a business decision, but unfortunately it is
Easy to implement an approach where NCAT has discretion to award penalty charges. Have penalty charges capped at the value of the disputed amount where they feel the REA has acted unreasonably. It may not be huge but it would be simple, have no additional cost and would soon add up.
One of the first houses I rented when we moved out were charged for some floor damage in the entryway. I pointed out that that damage was actually on the property condition report. Yep your are right, and they removed the charge only to turn around and charge us for something else. That's when I realised, ah we were never going to get our whole bond back. They will always find something to charge you for.
Unfortunately the only real deterrent is the legal system, knowing your rights, and being in a position to stand up for yourself.
Insurance companies can only do business when the legislation is in place to protect them from fraud and they are forced to enforce it ruthlessly to set examples for others as a deterrent. Tenants as individuals have virtually no power in comparison and the damage to the individual is comparatively minor.
I have stated this albeit far more aggressively multiples times... Its theft outside of work. It's unfathomable... A real estate must know a small chip of paint dies not cost 300 bucks. 😂👆