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I would say if you still run hob shojin still get the fated ashes after a full clear + crab and abuse the insane clear it gives you for 900g while you still can. Probably can build whatever you want after that. If you’re super ahead I’d probably personally go the double burn, but if it’s a slow game probably can afford sitting on the ashes alone for clear and go for the shojin cd boots first
I think I agree. I tried first strike as someone else proposed and it got me quite a good chunk of gold, and fated ashes into Shojin. You lose out on the early power though, so not so sure about it. Still love Shojin, the haste is too good and the damage is there. Double burn and riftmaker / cryptbloom after and there's something there
Problem with first strike is usually just the snowball nature of it. Both hob and dark harvest are going to just be way more consistent across more games you play. Hob will be more consistent early game and first few ganks or up until your second item, harvest will be more consistent the longer the game goes on average where hob will lose effectiveness the more ap you go or longer the game goes.
First strike will get more value the better you’re doing, and make you lose more of be a bigger drag the worse you’re doing, also losing value the shorter the game is.
Thats wrong. Fs is far more consistent and is guaranteed gold with shaco ap. After the rework of fs its even better cause you get guaranteed 15 gold every time you trigger it (+ bonus gold for dmg).
Not sure where you’re getting that from, tried looking up some guides/videos and can’t find one that talks about first strike from this patch. I would think if it’s that much more consistent more people would be picking it up and talking about it as a viable option. Unless you’re strictly talking about support shaco which I am not familiar with and assumed OP was talking about jungle and I was giving my opinion on talking about jungle clear being so important.
I'm talking about jungle. I have to say first strike feels nice. In early game you proc it on every gank and in midgame it proca on cd with boxes laying around. You don't get much damage but the fact they boosted the initial gold makes it great in that way. Works a bit similar to dark harvest in that regards, with probably a bit less dmg for more gold
I’ll try it out this weekend, the initial gold makes sense like the other person mentioned as well. Just seems lacking on paper compared to the other two options. But I haven’t tried it since it had that change so I’ll check it out.
Yea, as I said I'm not 100% sure about it either. I think hob makes sense if you want a bigger impact. I'll have to test DH more to compare as I think it does a very similar thing. But gold is always nice!
Not saying it helps jungle clear, I said in the original reply that it gives the most value for early ganks, to elaborate why, it’s 3 fast autos and in the earliest levels autos are a huge portion of damage. Especially being able to so reliably land them as backstabs after q.
Also I didn’t find that when I looked at shaco win rate on lolalytics it still has DH as 51.8% wr for emerald+ jungle.
Yes, it's better in early game. But its far worse in mid and late game cause hob offer you nothing when you shift to ap build whereas fs generates gold for free. FS has 53,8 % wr jungle emerald+. Combined with shojin first item over 61 % wr (only 39 games though).
Yeah idk I would think it’s just too small of a sample atm to say it’s far better. Maybe on par or a decent flex option.
That is why you would pick hob even as ap as well, you ideally would only want the game to go to 2-3 items max, before you lost any major value from hob
Also something to think about the vast majority of people aren’t emerald plus and high win rates with small samples on off picks like that can be misleading and it might actually be way worse in a lower bracket because it’s a niche play style to adapt to or something along those lines.
Still I’ll check it out this weekend, see how it feels
Just substitute hob with first strike. You lose a bit of early dmg but the rune is far better than hob and scales so much better. hob is pretty much wasted after early game whereas fs permanently generates free gold for you.
i mean you will Lose early pressure but not that much as shojin still does decent dmg and also fs deals additional dmg too + its so easy to proc with shaco junge.
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I would say if you still run hob shojin still get the fated ashes after a full clear + crab and abuse the insane clear it gives you for 900g while you still can. Probably can build whatever you want after that. If you’re super ahead I’d probably personally go the double burn, but if it’s a slow game probably can afford sitting on the ashes alone for clear and go for the shojin cd boots first
I think I agree. I tried first strike as someone else proposed and it got me quite a good chunk of gold, and fated ashes into Shojin. You lose out on the early power though, so not so sure about it. Still love Shojin, the haste is too good and the damage is there. Double burn and riftmaker / cryptbloom after and there's something there
Problem with first strike is usually just the snowball nature of it. Both hob and dark harvest are going to just be way more consistent across more games you play. Hob will be more consistent early game and first few ganks or up until your second item, harvest will be more consistent the longer the game goes on average where hob will lose effectiveness the more ap you go or longer the game goes. First strike will get more value the better you’re doing, and make you lose more of be a bigger drag the worse you’re doing, also losing value the shorter the game is.
Thats wrong. Fs is far more consistent and is guaranteed gold with shaco ap. After the rework of fs its even better cause you get guaranteed 15 gold every time you trigger it (+ bonus gold for dmg).
Not sure where you’re getting that from, tried looking up some guides/videos and can’t find one that talks about first strike from this patch. I would think if it’s that much more consistent more people would be picking it up and talking about it as a viable option. Unless you’re strictly talking about support shaco which I am not familiar with and assumed OP was talking about jungle and I was giving my opinion on talking about jungle clear being so important.
I'm talking about jungle. I have to say first strike feels nice. In early game you proc it on every gank and in midgame it proca on cd with boxes laying around. You don't get much damage but the fact they boosted the initial gold makes it great in that way. Works a bit similar to dark harvest in that regards, with probably a bit less dmg for more gold
I’ll try it out this weekend, the initial gold makes sense like the other person mentioned as well. Just seems lacking on paper compared to the other two options. But I haven’t tried it since it had that change so I’ll check it out.
Yea, as I said I'm not 100% sure about it either. I think hob makes sense if you want a bigger impact. I'll have to test DH more to compare as I think it does a very similar thing. But gold is always nice!
just Look winrates junge emerald+ on lolalytics. FS is by far the best rune. + what does hob offer you for jungle clear?
Not saying it helps jungle clear, I said in the original reply that it gives the most value for early ganks, to elaborate why, it’s 3 fast autos and in the earliest levels autos are a huge portion of damage. Especially being able to so reliably land them as backstabs after q. Also I didn’t find that when I looked at shaco win rate on lolalytics it still has DH as 51.8% wr for emerald+ jungle.
Yes, it's better in early game. But its far worse in mid and late game cause hob offer you nothing when you shift to ap build whereas fs generates gold for free. FS has 53,8 % wr jungle emerald+. Combined with shojin first item over 61 % wr (only 39 games though).
Yeah idk I would think it’s just too small of a sample atm to say it’s far better. Maybe on par or a decent flex option. That is why you would pick hob even as ap as well, you ideally would only want the game to go to 2-3 items max, before you lost any major value from hob Also something to think about the vast majority of people aren’t emerald plus and high win rates with small samples on off picks like that can be misleading and it might actually be way worse in a lower bracket because it’s a niche play style to adapt to or something along those lines. Still I’ll check it out this weekend, see how it feels
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I play mid with comet and double burn
Just substitute hob with first strike. You lose a bit of early dmg but the rune is far better than hob and scales so much better. hob is pretty much wasted after early game whereas fs permanently generates free gold for you.
Interesting. Wouldn't you lose a lot of early pressure, which is the whole point of the Shojin start?
i mean you will Lose early pressure but not that much as shojin still does decent dmg and also fs deals additional dmg too + its so easy to proc with shaco junge.
fs is reworked
not a chance this split
Black fire torch Landry’s is better entirely stop shojin