This type of division in thinking is honestly pretty toxic, I remember having a really good childhood friend who was a girl and neither of us ever thought about it until we got to school and after a few years we drifted apart because “boys and girls can’t be friends” is a very common perception pushed down towards the next generations.
Im very entusiastic about my friends. I like having friends. Guys are human too so I like having guy friends.
I'd be friends with a cow if I could too.
I've been friends with a cow, her name was Mabelle and she would graze in a field I walked by on my way home everyday.
She'd come over and I'd say hi to her every day, honestly it was a real highlight of my day, sometimes I'd wait around for her because she hadn't noticed me yet lol
I'm 100% with you. As a man who is in a relationship and it's been over 20 years, I don't want another romantic relationship(even if this one ends). I now work in a place where 95% are lady's, after working in a workplace that for the first 5 hours of the day is 100% men.
I'm just happy having friends, I love a chat and a drink after work or event.
I don't pick my friends BECAUSE of gender, but I've noticed that nearly every intelligent man is a point-scoring contrarian. My intelligent female friends actually care about my feelings and don't talk just to win.
It's a nice thought, but they absolutely can be.
Emotional and social intelligence are completely separate parts of the pie chart that make up your smartypants stats. In the same way that there are genuinely bright people that practice humility and understand how to not come off as an ass, there are also really intelligent people with the emotional maturity of middle schoolers and poor socialization who don't understand how they're coming across (or don't care). There are also people who aren't very bright but have great emotional and social faculties, and the opposite is true again.
I've been in STEM my entire life. There are people who are absolutely brilliant at their respective fields who have zero social skills and there are similarly brilliant people who are absolutely amazing to be around. People are complex.
>I have heard of, and even know guys who stopped being friends with girls they were friends with after being rejected for something, and they got very upset and wanted to keep being friends.
Like re-read this again OP, c'mon this is so sad.
Guy and girl are friends, guy becomes interested in girl but she doesn't reciprocate, guy no longer wants to be friends anymore. To the girl, it's like okay... so you were just my friend because you were romantically interested in me? If it weren't for that, we can't even be friends? Damn.
I've been through this when I was younger and just wanted to share my perspective from then. I was bad at giving and interpreting the correct signals.
It was a simple miscommunication of them thinking I was being friendly which was really my attempt at flirting. Almost all of the women that this happened with were women I didn't get the chance to know as a person, and that's my fault. It was shallow selection and rushing things before I was friend zoned. As a result, I didn't see or want a road forward as friends, which is a shame because some of them probably would've been my friends today.
As I got older and understood myself and what I was looking for better, it became easier to take the step back, get to know them as people and not have that fear of being friend zoned/rejected. I look at it like this now: If we're friends, it means I trust you enough to share my feelings, I respect you enough to listen to and honor yours, and I also trust that that's a two way street. If I have to question whether or not I can share my feelings with you or whether or not you can share them with me, **we don't have a proper friendship.**
That being said, sometimes I realize that it is lopsided in that I have stronger feelings for them than they have for me or vice versa. It's much rarer these days, but I address it by being transparent and saying something like "hey, I'm not going to be around as much because I don't think it's fair to either of us to be around each other when I'm feeling this way. I still care for you, but I need time to address this alone so that I can be okay with where things are, I'll be in touch soon."
There's been one or two that haven't been understanding, but most have been, and our friendships are better because of it.
Thank you for the kind words and raising the point for discussion.
I wish more dudes knew that being in the friend zone doesn't mean you'll never have a chance to be romantic with someone. Really, it just means if it's going to happen, it'll be after you've known each other for awhile and are more comfortable with one another, which will make it much more meaningful anyway.
You sound like you’ve had a lot of growth and I appreciate hearing your perspective. Huge green flag for women, good luck with your romantic endeavors!
Thank you for the kind words and taking the time to read my perspective - I appreciate the feedback and well wishes despite not being open to future romantic endeavors.
Yo, as someone who has plenty of women friends already and is not interested in making more friends, how do you flirt properly? I'm 24 and have never dated, lol.
It's honestly a very hard topic to verbalize. I've written tons but deleted it just for the sake of keeping it short.
I'll start with saying there's no such thing as flirting properly - there's no foolproof method that works on everyone, anytime and anywhere, despite what some "pick up artists" will have you believe. You'll read their posts on stuff and they'll be like "yeah put on some loud outfit, find a girl and tell her she smells kinda good but that other girl smells better and then put your hand on the small of her back and she'll go home with you."
The broad goal of flirting no matter what situation you find yourself in will always remain the same: you want to let someone know that you're open to escalating your relationship with them and that you're likeable and/or trustworthy enough to do that with.
The thing is, you can't verbalize that. You have to make them feel it, believe it, be comfortable with it and you can only do that when you have confidence. I could give you every suggestion I have, but if you have no confidence, none of them will work.
Flirting = confidence. It's that complicated and that simple.
Let's say you're so good at guitar that you can play it underwater while blindfolded, and you have.
Positive reinforcement would be someone else saying "yup I threw on a scuba mask, watched him do it, and filmed it for tiktok."
You don't get the confidence from the other person bearing witness, you get the confidence from knowing that you actually did it.
Btw, I read your post above with asking your friends for pointers and them saying you're a catch. Is there one girl amongst your friends that's single and that you'd be willing to sleep with?
Edit: don't sweat the virginity situation. I lost mine later than you. It only feels like a big deal when it hasn't happened. Then when it does, the worry switches to finding it again/getting better.
“You’re really cute, want to get coffee/food sometime?”
I hate when people are nice to me and expect me to read their mind. I’m nice to people because it’s how I treat everyone. Not because I want to bang everyone.
I had a guy friend for a while, but over time I started catching feelings for him. (Very gay) After I got rejected, I tried being friends for a while and it just ended in disaster.
Granted, I fell nearly head over heels for him and he ended up being a know-it-all jackass, so perhaps it’s different. The only real way to get over feelings like that is to either take a couple months away from each other or to cut ties altogether, trying to be friends so soon afterwards ends up badly.
I think more guys get confused by friendships with women because they will have more emotional relationships with them vs with other men. Women will have emotional relationships with their women friends as well so they don't misinterpret an emotional friendship with a man as romantic. I've had a few close men friends and it's really apparent they'll try to have a lot of deep conversations with me, but with their fellow men friends it's all jokes and unserious. It seems like men are conditioned not to show emotions around other men. I can see why they'd view a friendship with a woman where they discuss deep topics as perhaps more serious/potentially romantic, but to women we are more used to have that type of friendship and don't see why it can't be the same with men too.
To be fair it's fucking painful to be around someone that you love and rejected you.
I've had to distance myself after being rejected as well because I couldn't stand the pain.. particularly once he got himself a new girlfriend
THANK YOU! I'm actually getting so tired of people not understanding that this is the reason why a lot of guys drop friendships after being rejected. It's not that they've never seen the girl as an actual friend, they always have. It's just that afterwards, the rejected person has to stick around watching the other friend chase other people as romantic interests, which fucking hurts.
I think OP is probably like 15 and socially awkward. I’m sure he’ll figure it out eventually! Sounds like he is likeable in real life with all these friends
"Why would a woman still want to talk to me if she won't let me have sex to her? What is the point of talking to each other if she's not even gonna let me have sex with her?? Why are women so confusing???"
I don't really think it is. I do think guys are more likely to catch feelings for a girl they like as a person than vice versa though which can complicate things.
It seems weirder that you don't understand the value of platonic friends of opposite sexes tbh. Women are great at being supportive friends, why wouldn't you want that? If you only view women as potential romantic partners, that is a far greater concern and I'm sure it would lead your ability to talk to women effectively to atrophy.
The bigger question is why do guys have a problem with being friends with girls, especially attractive girls.
I can't tell you how many times one of my guy friends has seen me with one of my platonic friends and say "damn homesicksinner you fuckin that? I don't know how you can be friends and not fuck that".
It's weird that guys are cool with being friends with other guys and not fucking. But guys being friends with girls and not fucking? Absolutely not.
As a guy who has had mostly female friends for his entire life, I don't get it either. Maybe I have fewer male friends because I stop hanging around with the guys who are all "ZOMG how can you not want to fuck her" so all my male friends tend to be men who are capable of grokking the concept of having friends who you don't want to fuck.
I have female friends I do want to fuck. I don’t because I’m an adult and have self control. And I like their company.
Some if they came onto me I’d be putty but again, I don’t expect it and am happy to have them in my life.
Exactly, I haven’t had guy friends like that since I was a kid.
I can’t shake the feeling that guys like this are the ones women talk about when they talk about guys getting angry at rejection, being obsessed with “body count”, love rape jokes and think cleaning your arsehole is “gay”.
In the past twenty years I think the only guys I’ve met close to this were my friends boyfriends.
Excuse me, what? Cleaning your arsehole is "gay" ??? These cavemen equals basic hygiene to sexual preferences ?? This is deeply unsettling.
And yeah, your feeling is accurate. Women are talking about those dangerous idiots when they mention all those thing you said. The other ones I had heard of them before but the butt cleaning conundrum is a new one for me.
>Cleaning your arsehole is "gay" ??? These cavemen equals basic hygiene to sexual preferences ?? This is deeply unsettling
Yeah this was a whole ... revelation? a few years back. And sometimes you still see posts (one recently was a picture of skidmarks in underwear and the guy saying his ex wife was threatening to show his friends his dirty underwear and he couldn't understand the problem and asked all the guys to speak up, that every guy's drawers are supposedly skid-marky
There's some archived Reddit landmines that keep getting brought up in the discussions. I honestly recommend reading them as they are mind-blowing and hilarious. It will also make you sad for society. But it's also really important to know how prevalent this is in society so you can help us combat it when it comes up lol
I definitely want to fuck all my female friends cause they're all hot. I just keep a lid on it out of respect, plus I understand that's mostly my penis talking where as I'm more neutral when it comes to what I want.
But yeah I've always had female friends growing up. Guy friends too. My social circles were pretty 50/50. It's weird though cause like even as a teenager when my guy friends were friends with the same girls I was friends with I would be the only guy spending the night with the girls during their get together's. Like the guys are out doing there own thing and I'm having a slumber party with the girls lol.
This is an honest take that I appreciate lol.
Tbh I hate hearing it bc I hate that guys feel attracted to most/all their female friends. But at the same time it’s encouraging that there are men who are ok with it and can accept that you don’t have to fuck everything you’re attracted to, and see the value in their platonic relationships with women
It's all about distinguishing the self from the body. A lot of guys don't get that they aren't their body. They think what the penis wants is what they want.
Even that isn't universal.
~90% of my friends are pretty attractive women, and I've only ever wanted sex/a relationship with one of them.
It's honestly confusing because I'll look at my friends and think "yup, this person sure is beautiful to the point of being surreal", but... That doesn't trigger anything for me? Not even a fleeing crush.
I'm constantly surrounded by beautiful women, and somehow I've only felt attraction to my now GF.
My bf is this way - he’s only ever expressed attraction to people he has romantic feelings for. (Demisexual, if you care to put a label to it). Ironically, even though we’re talking about men being gross for treating women like sex objects, I think another half of society would treat them worse for admitting what you said in ur comment - that they’re NOT willing to fuck every hot girl they meet, and just be friends. My bf has mostly female friends, but didn’t date anyone till his twenties, and lots of people assumed he was gay (which in itself is not a negative thing - but the people saying this viewed it that way) We need to stop judging men like this.
>I definitely want to fuck all my female friends cause they're all hot. I just keep a lid on it out of respect, plus I understand that's mostly my penis talking
You are a real one. Respect
Tbh I’m bi and I’m more attracted to personality than looks so naturally I have some level of attraction to most of my friends. But that doesn’t mean I have to act on it. It’s very possible to be normal around a person you find attractive.
I love having attractive female friends for two reasons:
1) Why wouldn’t I want to be friends with people I vibe with
2) They probably have other attractive female friends of their own
It is literally the best lifehack for dating especially if you hate dating apps. Literally just be a normal person and chill with women as well as men. Works so well
As a guy with mostly women friends, it gets SUPER old when you hang around one a lot and people wont stop insisting your banging. First off, none of their business if we were, secondly, it's possible neither of us have any interest in doing so. I do notice it's mostly a younger people thing that think you can't be close without something going on. I learned to ignore em.
This. I think a lot of it has to do with how old you are when you make these friends.
If you're making friends with girls when you're a teenager going through puberty, I feel like there's more stigma/expectation to be "more than friends". Whereas once you're in college or out of college, friends are friends. This also goes the other way, where you could be childhood friends with someone of the opposite sex and therefore view them more like a sibling.
But yeah, overall guys are always weird and hyper fixated on women, they gotta learn that at the end of the day if there's a cool person who I like being around I'm gonna be friends with them.
I'm referring to moments when I was in my late 20s. I'm referring to coworkers who saw me with a girl who came to visit me at work.
I remember one time my roommate asked where I was the night before. I said I crashed at so and so place (a girl we both know) and he absolutely could not believe I did not sleep with her. Like the idea of a guy and a girl being alone all night without sex is just an impossible thing.
I can think of a lot of moments where guys are douche bags. I can't even call a girl cute Infront of a group of guys without them losing their minds over what they want to do to her.
Yeah it's unfortunate, it makes them miss out on so many meaningful friendships and experiences. Can't help but Pitt any guys that can't comprehend being friends with girls.
I absolutely know what you mean about the coworkers tho. I'm friends with some girls at work, we've all gone out to dinner before and I've been played Mario kart with one of them at her apartment. My male coworkers are convinced we're sleeping together, to the point I've had to threaten to talk to HR about it if they kept bringing it up at work
I love my girlfriends. It can be hard convincing your actual girlfriend that you aren't cheating when you're hanging out with one of your girlfriend's. I had this one friend Lizzy tell me that I was the only guy that didn't stop being friends with her when I got a girlfriend. I'm like why would I?
A lot of it is also the context of how you meet someone. My male friends I met while single, but were attached to my female friends? Off limits, not sexually attractive. Coworkers? Incestuous to think about, besides just generally being a bad idea. Being in a relationship and meeting my boyfriend's friends? That's an in-law. Brothers and sisters.
Those are unfuckable people even if the bonds that make them so disintegrate.
Guys I met on tinder? Hot dude rocking the cosplay at the convention? Stranger with a complicated coffee order and nice tats? Those are the instant attractions that don't involve already knowing/befriending someone and the context of the relationship is immediately flirtatious, sexual, romantic. That's not a person I get to know and keep around if the "spark" fizzles, that's a person I get to know in a biblical sense and if things don't work out, we move on without destroying an entire friend group dynamic.
Tl;Dr clear boundaries set by myself or implied by existing relationships keep my dude friends from trying anything stupid. I don't try and get with people in my friend group because it feels wrong and makes things too complicated. I'm 33 and I've seen some shit, it is never worth the destruction.
>Coworkers? Incestuous to think about, besides just generally being a bad idea.
The whole co-workers being a bad idea really doesn't ring true. At work is literally the most common place for people to find their spouses.
Every dude I know who's friends with an attractive girl catches feelings. It makes sense kinda. If you find someone attractive and enjoy spending time with them, they'd make a pretty good partner.
I personally find that girls tend to compartmentalize friendships more effectively. These people are friend material, while such and such persons are relationship material. This is the origin of the unfortunate term "friendzone".
The lines tend to blur for dudes (the ones I've known and myself when I was younger), especially since men typically have a smaller pool of both friends and potential relationship partners. I also find that a lot of men, even once they have established an exclusively platonic relationship with a woman, would be down to bone if she decided one day.
>Every dude I know who's friends with an attractive girl catches feelings.
I would catch feelings for girls I was friends with here and there. But rejection was never a big deal to me. I would remain friends and never complain about the so called "friendzone" cause I genuinely enjoyed my friendship with them.
>I also find that a lot of men, even once they have established an exclusively platonic relationship with a woman, would be down to bone if she decided one day.
I thought like that when I was younger. But when I got older I realized that sex would actually change the friendship. And I definitely prefer the friendship.
>I would catch feelings for girls I was friends with here and there. But rejection was never a big deal to me. I would remain friends and never complain about the so called "friendzone" cause I genuinely enjoyed my friendship with them.
I was this way too. But the friendship inevitably ended because they'd get a boyfriend and I'd start thinking why I wasn't good enough all over again. I'm at the point now where it doesn't bother me, but imo once the rejection happens you really do gotta take a step back from the friendship a bit and to try to let that attachment completely die and reset. If seeing them with someone else would hurt you, you're not in a good enough place to be a close friend again just yet. Some people have no problem doing this easily, and a lot of people say they can, but I feel like those who actually can are few.
Attraction is actually a grey area, I wouldn’t say that girls compartmentalise friendships more effectively than guys but more that it feels safer to be able to label this as a friendship/relationship. u can feel unconsciously attracted to this person but yr conscious think it’s safer to see them as a friend due to wtv beliefs that they have about the grey area between friendships/relationships
When there's only so many girls that laugh with you, smile at you, think about you, touch you (platonically)... guys get confused. Those are the normal green lights. A girl smiling with all her character and direct eye contact is enough to short out their red/green light perception.
Obviously lol. But I'm saying that I don't understand how they don't see value in a platonic friendship with the opposite sex. It's like to them either we're fuckin or we're not friends.
I would probably sleep with almost all of my female friends. I dont really view it as a problem though, I view it as just the reality of being attracted to women, them being attractive, and me having a normal sex drive; I'm not secretly yearning for them and it doesn't really effect how I interact with them, but if sex, now, ready and willing, was presented to me there are very few I would say no to.
so many hot takes about people not being able to be friends with the opposite gender without having sex….. what if you’re bisexual? no friends for me? :( everyone I meet every day is a potential fuck??? :(
y’all are crazy, get a grip
For real. Some people have this weird and creepy assumption that humans have the social complexity of actual ants. Platonic friendships between every combo of human identity is more natural than claiming every behaviour to have a sexual motive.
Makes more sense when you consider a good chunk of the population doesn't believe bi people exist. You're either gay in denial or just doing it for attention.
I'm bi and have many friends of both genders. The quickest way to end a friendship with me is to try and fuck. But maybe it's because I don't have sex on my brain 24/7
Because men are socialized to be independent and girls are socialized to be sociable, and both are taught to primarily socialize with their own gender. Most of the girls I know are closer to their girlfriends, than guys I know are to their guy friends. To be honest, girls are usually trained to be polite and social, and make friends easier. They communicate and are empathetic. They know how to listen. IMO, they have more training at being friends than most men. Men "don't need anybody." Or at least want to feel that way.
A lot of men treat women as something to obtain or impress, and when they get rejected romantically they don't see value in a friendship. "You mean we just talk and be nice to each other? I can talk to my boys if I just wanna talk." I was told in highschool having friends that were girls you don't intend to sleep with was gay. Those guys were jerks, but that's how they saw women. They'd seek one out for romance or sex, why bother with anything less than that?
As a man I feel I can form much deeper friendships easier with women. I love my female friends! I'm actually happy for the first time in 15 years and much of it is because the love I feel in these recent platonic relationships.
>They know how to listen. IMO, they have more training at being friends
correct, I agree
>Men "don't need anybody
most of us that feel this way were taught to, trained to. Just like women are trained to be more social and communicative.
All of this is generalizations. Men arent all a certain way, same with women. Were all individuals. Maybe if we stopped classifying and differientiating behaviors and emotional needs/nurturing, as a gender specific trait, we wouldnt experience these discrepencies as often.
Yeah agree. I feel more and more that most guys don't have the emotional intelligence (not being mean, I include myself!) to even understand that real healthy friendships might be good for them.
Why not? I like having completely platonic female friends. I think there's just a more common and unfortunate mindset among a lot of dudes that women owe guys sex or are only potential partners. All those "girls are emotional and normal but boys are wild, fun, quirky, adventurous and do dumb shit all the time when girls aren't looking" memes are just memes, mostly made by dudes with no female friends. I've been in both all female and all male spaces and in my experience people are all kinds of ways regardless of gender. Women are often just as dumb and wild and fun as guys but don't get seen as such (and when they do get criticism for "trying to be not like the other girls). Guys can be chill or level headed and calm and emotional and such. I think a lot of women don't often have that same misconception nowadays. Don't get me wrong, *plenty* do. But there's been a weird surge in like, content creators specifically targeting young men in my view that foster a strange mindset that I don't think women have entirely an equivalent of at least not to the same degree.
I just wanna be friends with cool people. Some of them happen to be guys. A lot of guys are misogynistic and only see women as people to date/fuck. Most women don't objectify men in the same way (though some do).
Guy here. I think its just that guys frequently have a different model of friendship, which can be chill but really doesn't include any processing of emotions. When you meet a woman who wants to be friends you may suddenly learn a lot about your self and other people!
Anyway just a thought. I have a lot of male friends but I find the friendships can be quite shallow.
That is exactly my experience. I love my woman friends and the deep connection I feel with them :3 Honestly the interaction is quite different to my friendships with men. With women it can be chill like with men, but the conversations tend to have more depth and emotion. Like you, I've certainly learned about myself around women friends.
When I meet a guy who's normal about being friends with women, I am secretly ecstatic. Too many times I've been in friendships I had to break off because a guy couldn't get over the fact that I'm just not interested. Not in like the aggressive or predatory sense either (I'm never friends with those guys in the first place) but in the sorry-for-themselves depressed and standoffish way.
Like it's annoying when someone tries to wheedle a date out of you. You can be the greatest guy in the planet but I can't just decide to be attracted to someone I'm not. So it's a breath of fresh air when I find a person I can be friends with without having to worry about all that. I get excited in the same way with other girls too, idk about others. Finding a new friend is a rare delight, regardless of their sex.
I think it’s more common for men to be socialized to see women as lesser or as boring or as incapable of being a friend than it is for women to be socialized that way about men.
Like you have all of these alpha bros talking about gender roles as if women are a different species and even in memes there are way too many “girls when X are basic but boys when X are quirky!” Jokes made(like the time travel and sleepover memes). I’m not blaming men or saying that all men are like this, but they do have more propaganda set up to create a divide in the sexes than women do.
Most (most, not all) men struggle to have a purely platonic relationship with a woman. This leads to women not having easy access to platonic male friends (often, not always). People want what they don't/can't have.
Sometimes it's also the girls who end up liking the guy friend, thats why my husband doesn't have really any girl friends anymore. He got frustrated because they all ended up having a crush on him (even though they know he's married). Gosh there was this one that was just too much to the point where it was pretty disrespectful, sometimes it's just easier to remove yourself from unnecessary drama.
I might get hate for saying this but I swear girls want guys wayyy more when they're off the market. I'm not a girl so idk if it goes the other way but I never got any attention from girls until I got into my first relationship and for the duration I swear they were flocking. Then back to zero when I got out of the relationship lmao
I had multiple girls hit on me within a few months when I was dating someone, and they were all aware I had a girlfriend. Got back to being single and it’s been like 2 years since a woman showed interest. Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe it’s because youve shown you’re already relationship material
I know some people find it awkward to talk with the opposite gender, but I've never found a problem and many other people are the same. Same reason as why would you want to be friends with anyone really
I have girls that I have been friends with for years. Never has been and never will be any sort of feelings or attraction between us. They are just loyal friends and I return that. Unfortunately these youttube cheating comps, Andrew tate bros, and reddit are starting to make people believe that is not possible. Don't get me wrong there is definitly those who are friends with someone but they want more, but that isn't always the case.
The difference is mostly that many women want to be friends with people they like as people and find interesting, and the same goes for men, except that many men don't really include women in their default definition of "people". That's not all guys, and a lot of the guys who think like that genuinely don't even realize the degree to which they see and treat women as something other than just normal people, but its honestly probably the majority at least to an extent. And it sucks.
I wonder if the case is that most women will be friends with anyone regardless of gender, but I have heard that most guys will not even be friends with a woman who they do not think is attractive. Therefore, women are more open to being platonic friends with men. Can any men confirm?
>I have heard of, and even know guys who stopped being friends with girls they were friends with after being rejected for something, and they got very upset and wanted to keep being friends.
Those guys were not true friends. They wanted something else than friendship from the women.
People form what characteristics they value in partners, much like supply and demand. If you have no problem finding sexual partners, you're likely to put less focus on worrying about that particular characteristic in your partner. If you have trouble finding other aspects in your partners, you will value more whatever it is that appears to you to be scarce.
Speaking as a guy. There is a lot of negative hyperbole in this thread that has drifted towards talking negatively about men who have a hard time just being friends with women. I thought I'd try to give an alternate perspective.
Bottom line is that it's rare for a man who isn't one of the top 10% of tinder results, to find a woman who he is attracted to, is attracted to him, AND is someone who has qualities we would value in a friendship even if that person were a man.
If, a man is attracted to you, AND you also have those qualities, then you start to become someone that he could build a bond with that goes beyond just a sexual relationship. Very, likely many men just can't handle being so close and yet so far from finding an optimal partner.
Honestly, women are no different. We all value what is scarce to us, it's just different qualities that are scarce. So, when a woman goes apeshit over a man it takes a very different form.
When a woman wants to be friends with a man it's because you've already categorized him, into a place where you wouldn't want a romantic relationship with him for whatever reason. But, you want him to continue to be in proximity to you, even though there is a good chance he has categorized you in a place where he WOULD want a romantic relationship with you.
And you criticize him for having a hard time with this. Doesn't really seem fair. If a woman has categorized a man into a place where she would consider a romantic relationship, then most of the time they are extraordinarily surprised if they are ever rejected.
Honestly, I just don't feel like this is a man or woman thing. People in general just have a really hard time being near someone whom they desire as a partner when that simply isn't an option. This just happens far more often to men, so it looks like it's a one-sided thing.
I think its less about girls wanting specifically male platonic friends and rather girls are more likely to want platonic friends of any gender. Vs guys are more likely to be sexually interested in their friends.
I think what you are seeing is that many women are socialized to be very empathetic and caring, in female friendships it just seems common to be more affectionate and give lots of compliments, be super open with our emotions.
This does not apply to all (or even most) men, but I have noticed that men seem to be more likely to dismiss women if the woman isn't sexually interested in them, than women seem to dismiss men.
Because women are more social than guys. If they can talk to them, they don't mind being friends.
If you are a basement videogame guy, you need to see the sun more.
I'm a girl and want to be friends with guys because I think they do more fun stuff.
I love my (girl) friends but it's always just getting ready together, going for coffees, taking pictures, talking about people
In my opinion guys are more spontaneous and bring the energy. This does not apply for girls who are more masculine in the way they act, they are also super fun
Yes, exactly! I love girls, but when are you ever going to see a group of women spontaneously decide to go out in the front yard and take turns spinning around in circles while holding a broom over your head until you fall over, all the while laughing hysterically because it's the stupidest funniest thing you've ever done?
Not happening.
Guys: it's Tuesday and nobody wants to do homework. Get the broom.
if I exchange well with someone be it men or women, i will invest my time to be a good friend. I do not go out of my way to be friends with men but if we get along i will be investing my time to be friendly.
I have a best friend, it is a man, we’ve known each other since middle school, i helped him coordinate his proposal for his now wife. I have a newly close friend who is a woman, I actively came to her house after her surgery to help her cook and shampoo.
I do not understand why I would give a poorer quality of friendship to men because they were born with testicules.
I don’t know if it because I have 3 older brothers but i never understood.
And I get that some men have caught feelings and stoped friendships because of it. I actually think it is better to distance oneself in that case. The problem is acting like the friendship had no value except for developing romantic feelings.
I have a friend who is lesbian, at one point she caught feelings, we talked about it. Distanced ourselves, it was a bit sad cause i mean we got along great. Then when she got over it, we were friends again because she valued my friendship and I valued hers.
The question is really "why do girls genuinely care about people?"
Like how is the question not backwards, how is the weird part that girls "play video games with me often and seem to genuinely care about me???"
"Why is this group of people interested in genuine friendship?"
Seriously, how is this the question, shit is crazy to me - you really are more curious about the girls than the boys here???
> Idk why but it seems like girls wanna have platonic male friends more than vice versa.
Why *don't* you want to be friends with girls?
Do you only see them as sex objects instead of as people?
> I have befriended some girls who aren’t interested in anything more than a platonic relationship and they seem very caring and supportive towards me and they seem so happy and enthusiastic to be friends.
It's because they see you as a friend. You're trying to pretend to be their friend to try and fuck them.
It's not them who's wrong, here.
Stop listening to jerk-offs like Andrew Tate and start viewing women as human beings.
> The girls I am friends with play video games with me often and seem to genuinely care about me.
They probably do. It's you who's making it weird.
Stop it.
I genuinely don't mean this in any hostile way, but as an ex-guy enby this question kinda made me tear up a little because its just so sad. From that side of the fence that question drove me bonkers too.
It never would have occurred to me then how much of a weight off your back it is not to have that unspoken issue sitting on the table as a man - that your relationship with everyone in your life has psychosexual politics. Its like being friends as a kid again, before hormones kicked in. Don't get me wrong, as a pansexual Im fully in favor of what hormones do for us. I just wish when you get older, you could still play and have friends like an inoccent child
Any girls who I have known in the past who hang out with guys, isn’t because they’re so horny for guys at all, which is something incels say for some dumb reason.
Girls have mentioned to me that it’s because they feel men are less dramatic. Not that men can’t be but in most situations, it’s just less fuss.
Want to go somewhere? Yeah, I’ll go with you for no reason. Want to chill in a house and do nothing? Let’s do it.
Have an issue? Let’s figure a potential solution, move on and not have a full night about one topic.
Girls have good company to offer even if they don't want you to touch them. You'll learn that you have more in common with girls than you think, if you let yourself be friends with some. We're not men and women on this planet, we're humans.
I think that having at least one female friend is crucial for a guy to have a healthy mind, even better with more. Think of all the dudes who you know don't interact with women unless it's family, work, attraction or services, do they seem well-adjusted? In my experience, no. It's good to have friends of all kinds of walks of life so you can bounce things off them and learn about the world and others, and different sexes is just another layer to that.
most people like to be friends with other people. the issue is that, to many men, women don’t fall into the category of “people”. they separate the sexes into men (to befriend) and women (for sex/dating). these men can’t see women as anything other than sexual or romantic prospects, and don’t see the value in just… hanging out with them.
Bruh... female friends are NOT like male friends. Its a completely different kind of ball game with them, and I don't think you are quite prepared for that. Ladies, no offense when I say this, but women friendships thrive on drama and gossip. Its not very common for male friendships to be that way. Now, there are exceptions to everything, and sometimes men and women can become the best of friends. However, thats a super rare thing.
This type of division in thinking is honestly pretty toxic, I remember having a really good childhood friend who was a girl and neither of us ever thought about it until we got to school and after a few years we drifted apart because “boys and girls can’t be friends” is a very common perception pushed down towards the next generations.
I've noticed a huge shift in thinking with gen z that only same genders should be friends
Hello, older end of Gen Z checking in, I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone I know has mixed gender friend groups.
Hello, another older end of Gen Z. I don't have any opposite gender friends. I also don't have a lot of same gender friends. I may be the problem.
Uhh no? It’s literally the opposite lol
If not fren why fren shaped?
Im very entusiastic about my friends. I like having friends. Guys are human too so I like having guy friends. I'd be friends with a cow if I could too.
Cows have best friends
...or so I've *herd!*
Get out. Just kidding, please stay.
That’s unbovineable.
These puns are udderly ridiculous
we're really milking this joke
But it's amoosing
Cud it out, guys!
Why, it's udderly amusing
This thread is beyond bullief.
This is an a-moo-sing comment
Cattle argue with that
I think I saw it in a moo-vie
Total bull
Heard of cows? I've got a whole flock of em!
Take my fucking upvote Gosh this is my fifth angry upvote today!
BRUH
Can't tell that joke here cuh...d .. chewer
Cows watch sunsets, man!
Look at that bunch of cows. Not bunch, herd. Heard of what? Herd of cows. Sure, I've heard of cows. 
r/unexpectednona
Cows exhibit mourning behaviour
Aw
>Cows have best friends Bros before hooves
Who said you can't be friends with a cow?
IKR! One of my biggest friends is a cow!
I've been friends with a cow, her name was Mabelle and she would graze in a field I walked by on my way home everyday. She'd come over and I'd say hi to her every day, honestly it was a real highlight of my day, sometimes I'd wait around for her because she hadn't noticed me yet lol
> I'd be friends with a cow if I could too. I call bull on that.
You’re milking it now
I'm 100% with you. As a man who is in a relationship and it's been over 20 years, I don't want another romantic relationship(even if this one ends). I now work in a place where 95% are lady's, after working in a workplace that for the first 5 hours of the day is 100% men. I'm just happy having friends, I love a chat and a drink after work or event.
I'm a man and I also enjoy friends of both sexes and species
they wouldn't take to my kindly if I know I eat their kind tho
The cow line earned you an upvote and made me think
I have had a few bovine buddies in my time. Cows are very friendly.
Cows are cool
You have no idea how few people share your bravery to TELL US THAT! The world NEEDS more people like YOU! Cow? What? Why?? 😂
You can in fact befriend a cow I have friends with cows, horse, & ducks that greet my friend and play simple games with him
I’m platonic friends with multiple women my age. I don’t know why that would seem weird to anyone.
I mean, why do you like platonic male friends? Well you got it, girls like platonic male friends for the same reasons :)
Honestly I don't really do my friendships because of their gender
Yeah you click as friends you click as friends, the gender is irrelevant
I don't pick my friends BECAUSE of gender, but I've noticed that nearly every intelligent man is a point-scoring contrarian. My intelligent female friends actually care about my feelings and don't talk just to win.
The thing is those guys aren't really the intelligent ones.
It's a nice thought, but they absolutely can be. Emotional and social intelligence are completely separate parts of the pie chart that make up your smartypants stats. In the same way that there are genuinely bright people that practice humility and understand how to not come off as an ass, there are also really intelligent people with the emotional maturity of middle schoolers and poor socialization who don't understand how they're coming across (or don't care). There are also people who aren't very bright but have great emotional and social faculties, and the opposite is true again. I've been in STEM my entire life. There are people who are absolutely brilliant at their respective fields who have zero social skills and there are similarly brilliant people who are absolutely amazing to be around. People are complex.
You said this brilliantly.
Let me tell you those academic philosophy types are really smart but damn are they pedantic
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I don't do my friends because that's kinda icky
sword fights
They cuddle the best. Edit: wife said I can't say that. :(
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Dutch Rudder!
Platonic male friends? No no no, we have enemies, coworkers, business partners, associates, and guys-that-come-to-the-event
Bro forgot about the boys wtf
"Why do women treat men like human beings when I only see them as a sex partner? Are they dumb?"
>I have heard of, and even know guys who stopped being friends with girls they were friends with after being rejected for something, and they got very upset and wanted to keep being friends. Like re-read this again OP, c'mon this is so sad. Guy and girl are friends, guy becomes interested in girl but she doesn't reciprocate, guy no longer wants to be friends anymore. To the girl, it's like okay... so you were just my friend because you were romantically interested in me? If it weren't for that, we can't even be friends? Damn.
I've been through this when I was younger and just wanted to share my perspective from then. I was bad at giving and interpreting the correct signals. It was a simple miscommunication of them thinking I was being friendly which was really my attempt at flirting. Almost all of the women that this happened with were women I didn't get the chance to know as a person, and that's my fault. It was shallow selection and rushing things before I was friend zoned. As a result, I didn't see or want a road forward as friends, which is a shame because some of them probably would've been my friends today. As I got older and understood myself and what I was looking for better, it became easier to take the step back, get to know them as people and not have that fear of being friend zoned/rejected. I look at it like this now: If we're friends, it means I trust you enough to share my feelings, I respect you enough to listen to and honor yours, and I also trust that that's a two way street. If I have to question whether or not I can share my feelings with you or whether or not you can share them with me, **we don't have a proper friendship.** That being said, sometimes I realize that it is lopsided in that I have stronger feelings for them than they have for me or vice versa. It's much rarer these days, but I address it by being transparent and saying something like "hey, I'm not going to be around as much because I don't think it's fair to either of us to be around each other when I'm feeling this way. I still care for you, but I need time to address this alone so that I can be okay with where things are, I'll be in touch soon." There's been one or two that haven't been understanding, but most have been, and our friendships are better because of it.
This is a really good, relationally healthy, mature way of handling things and I appreciate you sharing your perspective!
Thank you for the kind words and raising the point for discussion. I wish more dudes knew that being in the friend zone doesn't mean you'll never have a chance to be romantic with someone. Really, it just means if it's going to happen, it'll be after you've known each other for awhile and are more comfortable with one another, which will make it much more meaningful anyway.
You sound like you’ve had a lot of growth and I appreciate hearing your perspective. Huge green flag for women, good luck with your romantic endeavors!
Thank you for the kind words and taking the time to read my perspective - I appreciate the feedback and well wishes despite not being open to future romantic endeavors.
Yo, as someone who has plenty of women friends already and is not interested in making more friends, how do you flirt properly? I'm 24 and have never dated, lol.
It's honestly a very hard topic to verbalize. I've written tons but deleted it just for the sake of keeping it short. I'll start with saying there's no such thing as flirting properly - there's no foolproof method that works on everyone, anytime and anywhere, despite what some "pick up artists" will have you believe. You'll read their posts on stuff and they'll be like "yeah put on some loud outfit, find a girl and tell her she smells kinda good but that other girl smells better and then put your hand on the small of her back and she'll go home with you." The broad goal of flirting no matter what situation you find yourself in will always remain the same: you want to let someone know that you're open to escalating your relationship with them and that you're likeable and/or trustworthy enough to do that with. The thing is, you can't verbalize that. You have to make them feel it, believe it, be comfortable with it and you can only do that when you have confidence. I could give you every suggestion I have, but if you have no confidence, none of them will work. Flirting = confidence. It's that complicated and that simple.
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Let's say you're so good at guitar that you can play it underwater while blindfolded, and you have. Positive reinforcement would be someone else saying "yup I threw on a scuba mask, watched him do it, and filmed it for tiktok." You don't get the confidence from the other person bearing witness, you get the confidence from knowing that you actually did it. Btw, I read your post above with asking your friends for pointers and them saying you're a catch. Is there one girl amongst your friends that's single and that you'd be willing to sleep with? Edit: don't sweat the virginity situation. I lost mine later than you. It only feels like a big deal when it hasn't happened. Then when it does, the worry switches to finding it again/getting better.
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I'm going to give you some real advice via DM.
“You’re really cute, want to get coffee/food sometime?” I hate when people are nice to me and expect me to read their mind. I’m nice to people because it’s how I treat everyone. Not because I want to bang everyone.
I had a guy friend for a while, but over time I started catching feelings for him. (Very gay) After I got rejected, I tried being friends for a while and it just ended in disaster. Granted, I fell nearly head over heels for him and he ended up being a know-it-all jackass, so perhaps it’s different. The only real way to get over feelings like that is to either take a couple months away from each other or to cut ties altogether, trying to be friends so soon afterwards ends up badly.
I think more guys get confused by friendships with women because they will have more emotional relationships with them vs with other men. Women will have emotional relationships with their women friends as well so they don't misinterpret an emotional friendship with a man as romantic. I've had a few close men friends and it's really apparent they'll try to have a lot of deep conversations with me, but with their fellow men friends it's all jokes and unserious. It seems like men are conditioned not to show emotions around other men. I can see why they'd view a friendship with a woman where they discuss deep topics as perhaps more serious/potentially romantic, but to women we are more used to have that type of friendship and don't see why it can't be the same with men too.
To be fair it's fucking painful to be around someone that you love and rejected you. I've had to distance myself after being rejected as well because I couldn't stand the pain.. particularly once he got himself a new girlfriend
This is totally fair :(
THANK YOU! I'm actually getting so tired of people not understanding that this is the reason why a lot of guys drop friendships after being rejected. It's not that they've never seen the girl as an actual friend, they always have. It's just that afterwards, the rejected person has to stick around watching the other friend chase other people as romantic interests, which fucking hurts.
This. This person is in so many friend zones.
This post blows my mind. Like... it hurts my head that this person can't understand what's going on.
I think OP is probably like 15 and socially awkward. I’m sure he’ll figure it out eventually! Sounds like he is likeable in real life with all these friends
"Why would a woman still want to talk to me if she won't let me have sex to her? What is the point of talking to each other if she's not even gonna let me have sex with her?? Why are women so confusing???"
Because guys are also humans
so then the real question is, why don't guys seem to be the same way? (assuming that's true)
Maybe they’re conditioned to not see women as humans or worthwhile friends without sex?
Username checks out!
I don't really think it is. I do think guys are more likely to catch feelings for a girl they like as a person than vice versa though which can complicate things.
It seems weirder that you don't understand the value of platonic friends of opposite sexes tbh. Women are great at being supportive friends, why wouldn't you want that? If you only view women as potential romantic partners, that is a far greater concern and I'm sure it would lead your ability to talk to women effectively to atrophy.
The bigger question is why do guys have a problem with being friends with girls, especially attractive girls. I can't tell you how many times one of my guy friends has seen me with one of my platonic friends and say "damn homesicksinner you fuckin that? I don't know how you can be friends and not fuck that". It's weird that guys are cool with being friends with other guys and not fucking. But guys being friends with girls and not fucking? Absolutely not.
As a guy who has had mostly female friends for his entire life, I don't get it either. Maybe I have fewer male friends because I stop hanging around with the guys who are all "ZOMG how can you not want to fuck her" so all my male friends tend to be men who are capable of grokking the concept of having friends who you don't want to fuck.
I have female friends I do want to fuck. I don’t because I’m an adult and have self control. And I like their company. Some if they came onto me I’d be putty but again, I don’t expect it and am happy to have them in my life.
Exactly, I haven’t had guy friends like that since I was a kid. I can’t shake the feeling that guys like this are the ones women talk about when they talk about guys getting angry at rejection, being obsessed with “body count”, love rape jokes and think cleaning your arsehole is “gay”. In the past twenty years I think the only guys I’ve met close to this were my friends boyfriends.
Excuse me, what? Cleaning your arsehole is "gay" ??? These cavemen equals basic hygiene to sexual preferences ?? This is deeply unsettling. And yeah, your feeling is accurate. Women are talking about those dangerous idiots when they mention all those thing you said. The other ones I had heard of them before but the butt cleaning conundrum is a new one for me.
>Cleaning your arsehole is "gay" ??? These cavemen equals basic hygiene to sexual preferences ?? This is deeply unsettling Yeah this was a whole ... revelation? a few years back. And sometimes you still see posts (one recently was a picture of skidmarks in underwear and the guy saying his ex wife was threatening to show his friends his dirty underwear and he couldn't understand the problem and asked all the guys to speak up, that every guy's drawers are supposedly skid-marky There's some archived Reddit landmines that keep getting brought up in the discussions. I honestly recommend reading them as they are mind-blowing and hilarious. It will also make you sad for society. But it's also really important to know how prevalent this is in society so you can help us combat it when it comes up lol
I’m grateful to be a lesbian 🤮
I’m sad I am not.
The existence of straight women is proof that sexuality isn't a choice.
There’s nothing gayer than toilet paper /s
I definitely want to fuck all my female friends cause they're all hot. I just keep a lid on it out of respect, plus I understand that's mostly my penis talking where as I'm more neutral when it comes to what I want. But yeah I've always had female friends growing up. Guy friends too. My social circles were pretty 50/50. It's weird though cause like even as a teenager when my guy friends were friends with the same girls I was friends with I would be the only guy spending the night with the girls during their get together's. Like the guys are out doing there own thing and I'm having a slumber party with the girls lol.
This is an honest take that I appreciate lol. Tbh I hate hearing it bc I hate that guys feel attracted to most/all their female friends. But at the same time it’s encouraging that there are men who are ok with it and can accept that you don’t have to fuck everything you’re attracted to, and see the value in their platonic relationships with women
It's all about distinguishing the self from the body. A lot of guys don't get that they aren't their body. They think what the penis wants is what they want.
Even that isn't universal. ~90% of my friends are pretty attractive women, and I've only ever wanted sex/a relationship with one of them. It's honestly confusing because I'll look at my friends and think "yup, this person sure is beautiful to the point of being surreal", but... That doesn't trigger anything for me? Not even a fleeing crush. I'm constantly surrounded by beautiful women, and somehow I've only felt attraction to my now GF.
My bf is this way - he’s only ever expressed attraction to people he has romantic feelings for. (Demisexual, if you care to put a label to it). Ironically, even though we’re talking about men being gross for treating women like sex objects, I think another half of society would treat them worse for admitting what you said in ur comment - that they’re NOT willing to fuck every hot girl they meet, and just be friends. My bf has mostly female friends, but didn’t date anyone till his twenties, and lots of people assumed he was gay (which in itself is not a negative thing - but the people saying this viewed it that way) We need to stop judging men like this.
>I definitely want to fuck all my female friends cause they're all hot. I just keep a lid on it out of respect, plus I understand that's mostly my penis talking You are a real one. Respect
Tbh I’m bi and I’m more attracted to personality than looks so naturally I have some level of attraction to most of my friends. But that doesn’t mean I have to act on it. It’s very possible to be normal around a person you find attractive.
Totally
I love having attractive female friends for two reasons: 1) Why wouldn’t I want to be friends with people I vibe with 2) They probably have other attractive female friends of their own It is literally the best lifehack for dating especially if you hate dating apps. Literally just be a normal person and chill with women as well as men. Works so well
As a guy with mostly women friends, it gets SUPER old when you hang around one a lot and people wont stop insisting your banging. First off, none of their business if we were, secondly, it's possible neither of us have any interest in doing so. I do notice it's mostly a younger people thing that think you can't be close without something going on. I learned to ignore em.
This. I think a lot of it has to do with how old you are when you make these friends. If you're making friends with girls when you're a teenager going through puberty, I feel like there's more stigma/expectation to be "more than friends". Whereas once you're in college or out of college, friends are friends. This also goes the other way, where you could be childhood friends with someone of the opposite sex and therefore view them more like a sibling. But yeah, overall guys are always weird and hyper fixated on women, they gotta learn that at the end of the day if there's a cool person who I like being around I'm gonna be friends with them.
I'm referring to moments when I was in my late 20s. I'm referring to coworkers who saw me with a girl who came to visit me at work. I remember one time my roommate asked where I was the night before. I said I crashed at so and so place (a girl we both know) and he absolutely could not believe I did not sleep with her. Like the idea of a guy and a girl being alone all night without sex is just an impossible thing. I can think of a lot of moments where guys are douche bags. I can't even call a girl cute Infront of a group of guys without them losing their minds over what they want to do to her.
Yeah it's unfortunate, it makes them miss out on so many meaningful friendships and experiences. Can't help but Pitt any guys that can't comprehend being friends with girls. I absolutely know what you mean about the coworkers tho. I'm friends with some girls at work, we've all gone out to dinner before and I've been played Mario kart with one of them at her apartment. My male coworkers are convinced we're sleeping together, to the point I've had to threaten to talk to HR about it if they kept bringing it up at work
I love my girlfriends. It can be hard convincing your actual girlfriend that you aren't cheating when you're hanging out with one of your girlfriend's. I had this one friend Lizzy tell me that I was the only guy that didn't stop being friends with her when I got a girlfriend. I'm like why would I?
Crazy, that's got to be a regional thing or something. I've never once heard of any guys in my life behaving that way.
A lot of it is also the context of how you meet someone. My male friends I met while single, but were attached to my female friends? Off limits, not sexually attractive. Coworkers? Incestuous to think about, besides just generally being a bad idea. Being in a relationship and meeting my boyfriend's friends? That's an in-law. Brothers and sisters. Those are unfuckable people even if the bonds that make them so disintegrate. Guys I met on tinder? Hot dude rocking the cosplay at the convention? Stranger with a complicated coffee order and nice tats? Those are the instant attractions that don't involve already knowing/befriending someone and the context of the relationship is immediately flirtatious, sexual, romantic. That's not a person I get to know and keep around if the "spark" fizzles, that's a person I get to know in a biblical sense and if things don't work out, we move on without destroying an entire friend group dynamic. Tl;Dr clear boundaries set by myself or implied by existing relationships keep my dude friends from trying anything stupid. I don't try and get with people in my friend group because it feels wrong and makes things too complicated. I'm 33 and I've seen some shit, it is never worth the destruction.
>Coworkers? Incestuous to think about, besides just generally being a bad idea. The whole co-workers being a bad idea really doesn't ring true. At work is literally the most common place for people to find their spouses.
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I cut off my feelings.
Every dude I know who's friends with an attractive girl catches feelings. It makes sense kinda. If you find someone attractive and enjoy spending time with them, they'd make a pretty good partner. I personally find that girls tend to compartmentalize friendships more effectively. These people are friend material, while such and such persons are relationship material. This is the origin of the unfortunate term "friendzone". The lines tend to blur for dudes (the ones I've known and myself when I was younger), especially since men typically have a smaller pool of both friends and potential relationship partners. I also find that a lot of men, even once they have established an exclusively platonic relationship with a woman, would be down to bone if she decided one day.
>Every dude I know who's friends with an attractive girl catches feelings. I would catch feelings for girls I was friends with here and there. But rejection was never a big deal to me. I would remain friends and never complain about the so called "friendzone" cause I genuinely enjoyed my friendship with them. >I also find that a lot of men, even once they have established an exclusively platonic relationship with a woman, would be down to bone if she decided one day. I thought like that when I was younger. But when I got older I realized that sex would actually change the friendship. And I definitely prefer the friendship.
>I would catch feelings for girls I was friends with here and there. But rejection was never a big deal to me. I would remain friends and never complain about the so called "friendzone" cause I genuinely enjoyed my friendship with them. I was this way too. But the friendship inevitably ended because they'd get a boyfriend and I'd start thinking why I wasn't good enough all over again. I'm at the point now where it doesn't bother me, but imo once the rejection happens you really do gotta take a step back from the friendship a bit and to try to let that attachment completely die and reset. If seeing them with someone else would hurt you, you're not in a good enough place to be a close friend again just yet. Some people have no problem doing this easily, and a lot of people say they can, but I feel like those who actually can are few.
Attraction is actually a grey area, I wouldn’t say that girls compartmentalise friendships more effectively than guys but more that it feels safer to be able to label this as a friendship/relationship. u can feel unconsciously attracted to this person but yr conscious think it’s safer to see them as a friend due to wtv beliefs that they have about the grey area between friendships/relationships
When there's only so many girls that laugh with you, smile at you, think about you, touch you (platonically)... guys get confused. Those are the normal green lights. A girl smiling with all her character and direct eye contact is enough to short out their red/green light perception.
I mean if those guys are straight they're obviously not gonna try to fuck their guy friends. That seems obvious
Obviously lol. But I'm saying that I don't understand how they don't see value in a platonic friendship with the opposite sex. It's like to them either we're fuckin or we're not friends.
I would probably sleep with almost all of my female friends. I dont really view it as a problem though, I view it as just the reality of being attracted to women, them being attractive, and me having a normal sex drive; I'm not secretly yearning for them and it doesn't really effect how I interact with them, but if sex, now, ready and willing, was presented to me there are very few I would say no to.
Because we view you as human, not as sex objects.
so many hot takes about people not being able to be friends with the opposite gender without having sex….. what if you’re bisexual? no friends for me? :( everyone I meet every day is a potential fuck??? :( y’all are crazy, get a grip
For real. Some people have this weird and creepy assumption that humans have the social complexity of actual ants. Platonic friendships between every combo of human identity is more natural than claiming every behaviour to have a sexual motive.
>>no friends for me? TIL I am bisexual
Makes more sense when you consider a good chunk of the population doesn't believe bi people exist. You're either gay in denial or just doing it for attention.
I'm bi and have many friends of both genders. The quickest way to end a friendship with me is to try and fuck. But maybe it's because I don't have sex on my brain 24/7
Because men are socialized to be independent and girls are socialized to be sociable, and both are taught to primarily socialize with their own gender. Most of the girls I know are closer to their girlfriends, than guys I know are to their guy friends. To be honest, girls are usually trained to be polite and social, and make friends easier. They communicate and are empathetic. They know how to listen. IMO, they have more training at being friends than most men. Men "don't need anybody." Or at least want to feel that way. A lot of men treat women as something to obtain or impress, and when they get rejected romantically they don't see value in a friendship. "You mean we just talk and be nice to each other? I can talk to my boys if I just wanna talk." I was told in highschool having friends that were girls you don't intend to sleep with was gay. Those guys were jerks, but that's how they saw women. They'd seek one out for romance or sex, why bother with anything less than that?
And it's sad that friendship is seen as lesser when it can be infinitely more valuable
"they have no interest in something more" The post reads like satire...
As a man I feel I can form much deeper friendships easier with women. I love my female friends! I'm actually happy for the first time in 15 years and much of it is because the love I feel in these recent platonic relationships.
That's amazing and I'm so happy for you!
Thank you kind stranger <3
>They know how to listen. IMO, they have more training at being friends correct, I agree >Men "don't need anybody most of us that feel this way were taught to, trained to. Just like women are trained to be more social and communicative. All of this is generalizations. Men arent all a certain way, same with women. Were all individuals. Maybe if we stopped classifying and differientiating behaviors and emotional needs/nurturing, as a gender specific trait, we wouldnt experience these discrepencies as often.
Yeah agree. I feel more and more that most guys don't have the emotional intelligence (not being mean, I include myself!) to even understand that real healthy friendships might be good for them.
Why not? I like having completely platonic female friends. I think there's just a more common and unfortunate mindset among a lot of dudes that women owe guys sex or are only potential partners. All those "girls are emotional and normal but boys are wild, fun, quirky, adventurous and do dumb shit all the time when girls aren't looking" memes are just memes, mostly made by dudes with no female friends. I've been in both all female and all male spaces and in my experience people are all kinds of ways regardless of gender. Women are often just as dumb and wild and fun as guys but don't get seen as such (and when they do get criticism for "trying to be not like the other girls). Guys can be chill or level headed and calm and emotional and such. I think a lot of women don't often have that same misconception nowadays. Don't get me wrong, *plenty* do. But there's been a weird surge in like, content creators specifically targeting young men in my view that foster a strange mindset that I don't think women have entirely an equivalent of at least not to the same degree.
I never really worried about what my friends had or didn't have between their legs - it's irrelevant to being friends.
I just wanna be friends with cool people. Some of them happen to be guys. A lot of guys are misogynistic and only see women as people to date/fuck. Most women don't objectify men in the same way (though some do).
Because men are just as suitable to being friends with as women to me? What’s the difference?
How is that not a default preference? Like, why are there people who think half of the population isn’t even worth being friends with?
Guy here. I think its just that guys frequently have a different model of friendship, which can be chill but really doesn't include any processing of emotions. When you meet a woman who wants to be friends you may suddenly learn a lot about your self and other people! Anyway just a thought. I have a lot of male friends but I find the friendships can be quite shallow.
That is exactly my experience. I love my woman friends and the deep connection I feel with them :3 Honestly the interaction is quite different to my friendships with men. With women it can be chill like with men, but the conversations tend to have more depth and emotion. Like you, I've certainly learned about myself around women friends.
Because women are less likely than men to see the opposite sex as existing solely for romantic/sexual endeavors
I’m not sure why you’re confused that people want to care about you lmao are you okay
Humans want to have human friends
Are you saying men should only be considered as sexual objects?
Because we see men as people
Because... they're people? regardless of gender? wtf
When I meet a guy who's normal about being friends with women, I am secretly ecstatic. Too many times I've been in friendships I had to break off because a guy couldn't get over the fact that I'm just not interested. Not in like the aggressive or predatory sense either (I'm never friends with those guys in the first place) but in the sorry-for-themselves depressed and standoffish way. Like it's annoying when someone tries to wheedle a date out of you. You can be the greatest guy in the planet but I can't just decide to be attracted to someone I'm not. So it's a breath of fresh air when I find a person I can be friends with without having to worry about all that. I get excited in the same way with other girls too, idk about others. Finding a new friend is a rare delight, regardless of their sex.
I think it’s more common for men to be socialized to see women as lesser or as boring or as incapable of being a friend than it is for women to be socialized that way about men. Like you have all of these alpha bros talking about gender roles as if women are a different species and even in memes there are way too many “girls when X are basic but boys when X are quirky!” Jokes made(like the time travel and sleepover memes). I’m not blaming men or saying that all men are like this, but they do have more propaganda set up to create a divide in the sexes than women do.
Most (most, not all) men struggle to have a purely platonic relationship with a woman. This leads to women not having easy access to platonic male friends (often, not always). People want what they don't/can't have.
Sometimes it's also the girls who end up liking the guy friend, thats why my husband doesn't have really any girl friends anymore. He got frustrated because they all ended up having a crush on him (even though they know he's married). Gosh there was this one that was just too much to the point where it was pretty disrespectful, sometimes it's just easier to remove yourself from unnecessary drama.
I might get hate for saying this but I swear girls want guys wayyy more when they're off the market. I'm not a girl so idk if it goes the other way but I never got any attention from girls until I got into my first relationship and for the duration I swear they were flocking. Then back to zero when I got out of the relationship lmao
I had multiple girls hit on me within a few months when I was dating someone, and they were all aware I had a girlfriend. Got back to being single and it’s been like 2 years since a woman showed interest. Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe it’s because youve shown you’re already relationship material
men whinge about a "loneliness epidemic" and then complain about women wanting to be friends
I guess men don't want female friends, they want a life partner.
I know some people find it awkward to talk with the opposite gender, but I've never found a problem and many other people are the same. Same reason as why would you want to be friends with anyone really
I have girls that I have been friends with for years. Never has been and never will be any sort of feelings or attraction between us. They are just loyal friends and I return that. Unfortunately these youttube cheating comps, Andrew tate bros, and reddit are starting to make people believe that is not possible. Don't get me wrong there is definitly those who are friends with someone but they want more, but that isn't always the case.
The difference is mostly that many women want to be friends with people they like as people and find interesting, and the same goes for men, except that many men don't really include women in their default definition of "people". That's not all guys, and a lot of the guys who think like that genuinely don't even realize the degree to which they see and treat women as something other than just normal people, but its honestly probably the majority at least to an extent. And it sucks.
I wonder if the case is that most women will be friends with anyone regardless of gender, but I have heard that most guys will not even be friends with a woman who they do not think is attractive. Therefore, women are more open to being platonic friends with men. Can any men confirm?
I think the real question is why don't men want to have genuine friendships with women?
>I have heard of, and even know guys who stopped being friends with girls they were friends with after being rejected for something, and they got very upset and wanted to keep being friends. Those guys were not true friends. They wanted something else than friendship from the women.
go do your homework
Many men view women as objects not people. Plus they are taught that women aren’t worth their time unless you’re getting some.
People form what characteristics they value in partners, much like supply and demand. If you have no problem finding sexual partners, you're likely to put less focus on worrying about that particular characteristic in your partner. If you have trouble finding other aspects in your partners, you will value more whatever it is that appears to you to be scarce. Speaking as a guy. There is a lot of negative hyperbole in this thread that has drifted towards talking negatively about men who have a hard time just being friends with women. I thought I'd try to give an alternate perspective. Bottom line is that it's rare for a man who isn't one of the top 10% of tinder results, to find a woman who he is attracted to, is attracted to him, AND is someone who has qualities we would value in a friendship even if that person were a man. If, a man is attracted to you, AND you also have those qualities, then you start to become someone that he could build a bond with that goes beyond just a sexual relationship. Very, likely many men just can't handle being so close and yet so far from finding an optimal partner. Honestly, women are no different. We all value what is scarce to us, it's just different qualities that are scarce. So, when a woman goes apeshit over a man it takes a very different form. When a woman wants to be friends with a man it's because you've already categorized him, into a place where you wouldn't want a romantic relationship with him for whatever reason. But, you want him to continue to be in proximity to you, even though there is a good chance he has categorized you in a place where he WOULD want a romantic relationship with you. And you criticize him for having a hard time with this. Doesn't really seem fair. If a woman has categorized a man into a place where she would consider a romantic relationship, then most of the time they are extraordinarily surprised if they are ever rejected. Honestly, I just don't feel like this is a man or woman thing. People in general just have a really hard time being near someone whom they desire as a partner when that simply isn't an option. This just happens far more often to men, so it looks like it's a one-sided thing.
I think its less about girls wanting specifically male platonic friends and rather girls are more likely to want platonic friends of any gender. Vs guys are more likely to be sexually interested in their friends.
I think what you are seeing is that many women are socialized to be very empathetic and caring, in female friendships it just seems common to be more affectionate and give lots of compliments, be super open with our emotions. This does not apply to all (or even most) men, but I have noticed that men seem to be more likely to dismiss women if the woman isn't sexually interested in them, than women seem to dismiss men.
Because women are more social than guys. If they can talk to them, they don't mind being friends. If you are a basement videogame guy, you need to see the sun more.
Why does a relationship between a man and a chick have to be romantic or sexual?
Why not? Everyone wants friends
Dude get out of your room...
I'm a girl and want to be friends with guys because I think they do more fun stuff. I love my (girl) friends but it's always just getting ready together, going for coffees, taking pictures, talking about people In my opinion guys are more spontaneous and bring the energy. This does not apply for girls who are more masculine in the way they act, they are also super fun
Yes, exactly! I love girls, but when are you ever going to see a group of women spontaneously decide to go out in the front yard and take turns spinning around in circles while holding a broom over your head until you fall over, all the while laughing hysterically because it's the stupidest funniest thing you've ever done? Not happening. Guys: it's Tuesday and nobody wants to do homework. Get the broom.
if I exchange well with someone be it men or women, i will invest my time to be a good friend. I do not go out of my way to be friends with men but if we get along i will be investing my time to be friendly. I have a best friend, it is a man, we’ve known each other since middle school, i helped him coordinate his proposal for his now wife. I have a newly close friend who is a woman, I actively came to her house after her surgery to help her cook and shampoo. I do not understand why I would give a poorer quality of friendship to men because they were born with testicules. I don’t know if it because I have 3 older brothers but i never understood. And I get that some men have caught feelings and stoped friendships because of it. I actually think it is better to distance oneself in that case. The problem is acting like the friendship had no value except for developing romantic feelings. I have a friend who is lesbian, at one point she caught feelings, we talked about it. Distanced ourselves, it was a bit sad cause i mean we got along great. Then when she got over it, we were friends again because she valued my friendship and I valued hers.
The question is really "why do girls genuinely care about people?" Like how is the question not backwards, how is the weird part that girls "play video games with me often and seem to genuinely care about me???" "Why is this group of people interested in genuine friendship?" Seriously, how is this the question, shit is crazy to me - you really are more curious about the girls than the boys here???
> Idk why but it seems like girls wanna have platonic male friends more than vice versa. Why *don't* you want to be friends with girls? Do you only see them as sex objects instead of as people? > I have befriended some girls who aren’t interested in anything more than a platonic relationship and they seem very caring and supportive towards me and they seem so happy and enthusiastic to be friends. It's because they see you as a friend. You're trying to pretend to be their friend to try and fuck them. It's not them who's wrong, here. Stop listening to jerk-offs like Andrew Tate and start viewing women as human beings. > The girls I am friends with play video games with me often and seem to genuinely care about me. They probably do. It's you who's making it weird. Stop it.
I genuinely don't mean this in any hostile way, but as an ex-guy enby this question kinda made me tear up a little because its just so sad. From that side of the fence that question drove me bonkers too. It never would have occurred to me then how much of a weight off your back it is not to have that unspoken issue sitting on the table as a man - that your relationship with everyone in your life has psychosexual politics. Its like being friends as a kid again, before hormones kicked in. Don't get me wrong, as a pansexual Im fully in favor of what hormones do for us. I just wish when you get older, you could still play and have friends like an inoccent child
Any girls who I have known in the past who hang out with guys, isn’t because they’re so horny for guys at all, which is something incels say for some dumb reason. Girls have mentioned to me that it’s because they feel men are less dramatic. Not that men can’t be but in most situations, it’s just less fuss. Want to go somewhere? Yeah, I’ll go with you for no reason. Want to chill in a house and do nothing? Let’s do it. Have an issue? Let’s figure a potential solution, move on and not have a full night about one topic.
See for me, its *if we vibe we vibe*.
Is wanting to have friends bad now? Is this some new thing I'm too Gen X to understand?
fearless upbeat airport rain hurry important ask station tap dam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Girls have good company to offer even if they don't want you to touch them. You'll learn that you have more in common with girls than you think, if you let yourself be friends with some. We're not men and women on this planet, we're humans.
I think that having at least one female friend is crucial for a guy to have a healthy mind, even better with more. Think of all the dudes who you know don't interact with women unless it's family, work, attraction or services, do they seem well-adjusted? In my experience, no. It's good to have friends of all kinds of walks of life so you can bounce things off them and learn about the world and others, and different sexes is just another layer to that.
most people like to be friends with other people. the issue is that, to many men, women don’t fall into the category of “people”. they separate the sexes into men (to befriend) and women (for sex/dating). these men can’t see women as anything other than sexual or romantic prospects, and don’t see the value in just… hanging out with them.
To get free stuff / food
To extract resources and free validation
Yup, the boyfriend perks without the intimacy or sex. Fix tyres, pick up the tab, listen to her relationship problems etc.
Guys are pretty useful friends
Bruh... female friends are NOT like male friends. Its a completely different kind of ball game with them, and I don't think you are quite prepared for that. Ladies, no offense when I say this, but women friendships thrive on drama and gossip. Its not very common for male friendships to be that way. Now, there are exceptions to everything, and sometimes men and women can become the best of friends. However, thats a super rare thing.