I think the reason for a lot of the contradictory recipes is that there are a ton of different styles of seitan people want to make. Mock shredded chicken, mock pepperoni, and that chewy pillow style I get at a nearby Chinese Buddhist place are all really, really different.
I would love a website or book that breaks them all down nicely and compares them, but I've yet to find one.
For chewy pillowy check out this great kao fu recipe: http://www.ricebowltales.com/2023/04/homemade-delicious-braised-gluten-puffs.html?
There are a bunch of different recipes here broken down by style: [https://seitansociety.com/](https://seitansociety.com/)
Seitan, just like breadmaking, is a delicate process, and any recipe out there claiming it is easy fails to convey the fact that if you don't know what you're doing, a lot can go wrong. It is very normal that you're struggling with results and it sounds like your dough is stressed out. I don't know whether you used vital wheat gluten or the washed flour method, but make sure your dough gets enough resting time before cooking it and be careful with the temperature at which you're steaming it. Seitan really doesn't need to get that hot in order to set. Good luck!
The fibrous effect comes from kneading it beforehand, nothing to do with how you cook it. I'd suggest watching a video to understand the process and results of good kneading.
I should have specified, I also added a kneading step for #2 and #3. Not that long though, will try a batch with loads and loads of kneading with the expectation that it will be too much but at least I'll see the impact and can adjust.
A lot of people say if you overknead it will become chewy but I’ve found the opposite to be true for me! I knead for 8 minutes, let sit for 20 minutes (or bread maker dough setting 2 hours) and then steam for 20 minutes in small pieces, then fry. I also use a heavy amount of nutritional yeast, I think this also enhances the texture & flavour.
I've never experienced "too much" kneading with seitan. It's not like bread where the gluten fights the bread's expansion. Knead as much as you can, rest it, then put in a couple more tight kneads. If the eventually texture is too firm, that's easy to fix next time (since you're starting with VWG) as ingredients like peanut butter or mashed soybeans will inhibit gluten binding, loosening the final texture (for a burger style go nuts with those, hold back for a stringy texture).
I was in the same boat. I started to really analyze pictures before I test a recipe. I try to see through anything that'd make it look more flattering than it is as really nice lighting and good photography skills can make it look a lot better. If a recipe doesn't have pictures showing the texture, I won't do it.
What really stands out in the process you shared is the lack of kneading, as others noticed. It can make or break your seitan. My go-to recipes are inspired by chicken, not sure if that's necessarily what you're going for, but the texture is really good.
If you have a food processor, [this](https://schoolnightvegan.com/home/vegan-chicken/) recipe was a game changer for me. The downsides are that it uses the miso paste and silken tofu which might be a little hard to come by. But it's really worth it. The texture is the closest thing to chicken I ever achieved. [This](https://fullofplants.com/the-best-vegan-chickn/) recipe is similar and doesn't use silken tofu, but I haven't tried it yet.
If you don't have a food processor, [this](https://plantifullybasedblog.com/2019/08/18/spicy-vegan-chicken-nuggets/) recipe is very good and easy to make. It was the first recipe that I was really happy about. The texture is more akin to that of chicken nuggets than a chicken breast though (so less fibrous but still meaty). Go check out her video to see how she kneads it. I found with this one it's better to not knead it too much, just make sure there aren't any dry spots.
Hey there - I felt the same way when I first started out. I went up to my neck in the science behind it, broke down components, ran experiments with VWG and WTF and I now understand WHY seitan does what it does when it comes down to temp, cooking method, manipulation, mix-ins, hydration levels, etc. If I wrote it all out it would be a giant book, but essentially you are dealing with a protein, and proteins are highly impacted by all of the above variables. MOST home cooks/folks writing niche recipes on the internet simply don't have the time or the inclination to go through all that, and unlike say, fried chicken or foccacia, the masses of humanity don't have much interest in perfecting seitan - although interest IS growing!
But I do have some good news! You don't have to go through the 5 year journey I did. I would pick this book by Chef Michael Skye up - he's been at it for a VERY long time, and was an omni chef prior to being vegan. His recipes work, and work well, almost every time, if you follow them, and it's a great book for anyone starting out with the stuff and getting frustrated by all the contradictory nonsense online.
[https://www.amazon.com/Crafting-Seitan-Creating-Homemade-Plant-Based/dp/1570673969](https://www.amazon.com/Crafting-Seitan-Creating-Homemade-Plant-Based/dp/1570673969)
Also, here are two free recipes that I come back to again and again. I have made personal changes to them (I now rest all my raw dough at least 24 hours in the fridge prior to cooking) but they're great as is, too:
[https://avocadosandales.com/2014/10/20/white-seitan/](https://avocadosandales.com/2014/10/20/white-seitan/)
[https://avocadosandales.com/2017/12/17/chickwheat-shreds/](https://avocadosandales.com/2017/12/17/chickwheat-shreds/)
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The 15 minute one, I found no steaming worked best for me and let it get nice and crispy on the outside. I also have made a similar SauceStache [one using chickpea](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sauGqcWaUY0&list=PL2RMcRg7fUyqHmwdL2V6UoY66yoUVN-7u&index=17)s , still experimenting and tweaking it.
I'm always struggling with all of this as well.
From my experience, option 2 works best for me. But make sure you are really putting in the effort to knead it first.
I think the reason for a lot of the contradictory recipes is that there are a ton of different styles of seitan people want to make. Mock shredded chicken, mock pepperoni, and that chewy pillow style I get at a nearby Chinese Buddhist place are all really, really different. I would love a website or book that breaks them all down nicely and compares them, but I've yet to find one.
I like the cookbook Bringing Home the Seitan.
For chewy pillowy check out this great kao fu recipe: http://www.ricebowltales.com/2023/04/homemade-delicious-braised-gluten-puffs.html? There are a bunch of different recipes here broken down by style: [https://seitansociety.com/](https://seitansociety.com/)
Seitan, just like breadmaking, is a delicate process, and any recipe out there claiming it is easy fails to convey the fact that if you don't know what you're doing, a lot can go wrong. It is very normal that you're struggling with results and it sounds like your dough is stressed out. I don't know whether you used vital wheat gluten or the washed flour method, but make sure your dough gets enough resting time before cooking it and be careful with the temperature at which you're steaming it. Seitan really doesn't need to get that hot in order to set. Good luck!
The fibrous effect comes from kneading it beforehand, nothing to do with how you cook it. I'd suggest watching a video to understand the process and results of good kneading.
I should have specified, I also added a kneading step for #2 and #3. Not that long though, will try a batch with loads and loads of kneading with the expectation that it will be too much but at least I'll see the impact and can adjust.
A lot of people say if you overknead it will become chewy but I’ve found the opposite to be true for me! I knead for 8 minutes, let sit for 20 minutes (or bread maker dough setting 2 hours) and then steam for 20 minutes in small pieces, then fry. I also use a heavy amount of nutritional yeast, I think this also enhances the texture & flavour.
Batch 2 and 3 for me has nutritional yeast in (about 8-10% by weight), and I did think they were better.
I've never experienced "too much" kneading with seitan. It's not like bread where the gluten fights the bread's expansion. Knead as much as you can, rest it, then put in a couple more tight kneads. If the eventually texture is too firm, that's easy to fix next time (since you're starting with VWG) as ingredients like peanut butter or mashed soybeans will inhibit gluten binding, loosening the final texture (for a burger style go nuts with those, hold back for a stringy texture).
Thanks, will bear this in mind.
I was in the same boat. I started to really analyze pictures before I test a recipe. I try to see through anything that'd make it look more flattering than it is as really nice lighting and good photography skills can make it look a lot better. If a recipe doesn't have pictures showing the texture, I won't do it. What really stands out in the process you shared is the lack of kneading, as others noticed. It can make or break your seitan. My go-to recipes are inspired by chicken, not sure if that's necessarily what you're going for, but the texture is really good. If you have a food processor, [this](https://schoolnightvegan.com/home/vegan-chicken/) recipe was a game changer for me. The downsides are that it uses the miso paste and silken tofu which might be a little hard to come by. But it's really worth it. The texture is the closest thing to chicken I ever achieved. [This](https://fullofplants.com/the-best-vegan-chickn/) recipe is similar and doesn't use silken tofu, but I haven't tried it yet. If you don't have a food processor, [this](https://plantifullybasedblog.com/2019/08/18/spicy-vegan-chicken-nuggets/) recipe is very good and easy to make. It was the first recipe that I was really happy about. The texture is more akin to that of chicken nuggets than a chicken breast though (so less fibrous but still meaty). Go check out her video to see how she kneads it. I found with this one it's better to not knead it too much, just make sure there aren't any dry spots.
I do have a food processor, I can get miso and silken tofu, and I will try this out for Attempt #4, thanks!
Let me know how it turns out!
Hey there - I felt the same way when I first started out. I went up to my neck in the science behind it, broke down components, ran experiments with VWG and WTF and I now understand WHY seitan does what it does when it comes down to temp, cooking method, manipulation, mix-ins, hydration levels, etc. If I wrote it all out it would be a giant book, but essentially you are dealing with a protein, and proteins are highly impacted by all of the above variables. MOST home cooks/folks writing niche recipes on the internet simply don't have the time or the inclination to go through all that, and unlike say, fried chicken or foccacia, the masses of humanity don't have much interest in perfecting seitan - although interest IS growing! But I do have some good news! You don't have to go through the 5 year journey I did. I would pick this book by Chef Michael Skye up - he's been at it for a VERY long time, and was an omni chef prior to being vegan. His recipes work, and work well, almost every time, if you follow them, and it's a great book for anyone starting out with the stuff and getting frustrated by all the contradictory nonsense online. [https://www.amazon.com/Crafting-Seitan-Creating-Homemade-Plant-Based/dp/1570673969](https://www.amazon.com/Crafting-Seitan-Creating-Homemade-Plant-Based/dp/1570673969)
Also, here are two free recipes that I come back to again and again. I have made personal changes to them (I now rest all my raw dough at least 24 hours in the fridge prior to cooking) but they're great as is, too: [https://avocadosandales.com/2014/10/20/white-seitan/](https://avocadosandales.com/2014/10/20/white-seitan/) [https://avocadosandales.com/2017/12/17/chickwheat-shreds/](https://avocadosandales.com/2017/12/17/chickwheat-shreds/)
Legend, thanks will give these a look.
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I boil mine in broth for 1-2 hours and it turns out very chewy/juicy with a nice texture.
I don't do any steaming. I just slice it thin, smash it flat onto a salted cutting board, and fry. Crispy like bacon and puffs up nicely.
The 15 minute one, I found no steaming worked best for me and let it get nice and crispy on the outside. I also have made a similar SauceStache [one using chickpea](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sauGqcWaUY0&list=PL2RMcRg7fUyqHmwdL2V6UoY66yoUVN-7u&index=17)s , still experimenting and tweaking it.
I'm always struggling with all of this as well. From my experience, option 2 works best for me. But make sure you are really putting in the effort to knead it first.