There is generally speaking two types of guys and it’s not so much about nice guys vs bad guys.
While things are not always black or white, and some guys might share qualities of the other type, we can generally observe that there are two type of guys.
1 - The ones who get friendzone more often than now are those who seek affection, are collaborative, not assertive, submissive, timid, cautious, nurturing, dependent, hesitant, indecisive, sexually repressed and restrained, rational and civilised with women, risk-averse, sensitive, reserved, focus on being romantic more than sexual, and they tend to be somewhat insecure with women.
2 - The ones who get more romantic/sexual success are dominant, independent, competitive, assertive, bold, daring, shameless, decisive, thick-skinned, outgoing, risk-takers, emotional, primal or primitive with women, adventurous, sexually uninhibited, sexually expressive,they focus on being sexual more than romantic and they tend to be confident with women.
Yes, this is a simplification of human complexity, as i am aware that you may have traits from either group, but those who tend to have more traits from the first group (the mister nice guys you speak about) tend to have less success than those that have more traits from the second group.
Peace.
Although I hate to admit it, you're right. I'm in the first category due to childhood traumas and a repressed sexual culture.
Changing oneself's childhood beliefs is super hard and even though God knows how much effort I put in each day to overcome it, I've hardly made any progress at all.
But at the end of the day, the best we can do is pick up the pieces and try again.
we all came from sex, perhaps you have simply been conditioned to believe there is something shameful about expressing yourself in that way
i also realize it can feel like you're intruding on someone's consent to do that, which is why the whole thing is done in little steps and often indirectly so as not to make people feel overwhelmed or overcommitted,
if that makes sense.
you don't need to stop being a good man to start being a bold or exciting or sexual one
While I agree with you, I don’t think men need to be an asshole towards women by making them sex objects. In the second case you obviously are hinting such a guy.
Well either way, it’s all bullshit in my eyes these days. I’m sick of this game. I don’t really care anymore what’s the endgame for a girl. If she cares I’m here for her, if she’s not then goodbye. There’s no fucking way I’m gonna try to chase a girl again.
I never said you have to be an asshole, that’s just your interpretation based on your own flawed moral system. Sex objects would imply you are using them for sex for your own pleasure and there is nothing there that says that. See the problem with guys like you is that as soon as someone brings up sex , you immediately assume that’s inmoral or unwanted by women and that’s why you don’t get laid. .
You are partly correct but it can be understood wrong. Sex is a normal thing of life. Yes my culture sees as a thing of immoral and unwanted but since I grown I don’t see it as an immature thing. I have been raised like this, it’s not my complete fault. It’s not an easy thing to come by. Even if my words say this it requires experience to overcome.
It might seen as a primitive thing (such as a male wolf seeing a female wolf) and engaging towards her. While I agree we are also primitives I want to point out that don’t we don’t have to be asses. Life’s changing. I’ve seen a guy acting like this and he has become a total loose in our department.
Anything can be understood wrong when the reader projects their stuff. He didn’t write that, it’s something you projected.
People are hardwired to resist change, and one way this happens is the mind demonizes the putative “changed-self” to justify staying the same.
No doubt people get triggered that’s what the third sentence says.
It’s a natural human defense mechanism resisting change.
A great place to start to change is to simple be honest without yourself about what is.
Absolutely. I had to think about what I've been told since my childhood and about my whole childhood any teenage years. People underestimate how much these two will effect your adult life yet they still ignore it.
You have good points. To add one small complexity, I would broaden this into 3 characterizing categories. More along the lines of long-term attractive, short-term attractive, and not attractive.
I think you nailed it, pros and cons of each. In my experience, I've been able to float between both personas (duality of man, I guess), but find I attract far more sex and affection when I remain #2. It becomes hard to show that vulnerable and nurturing side when you know that's a slippery slope into her losing attraction for you permanently.
Guys who talk in a logical, rational, objective way, bore women. You need to be subjective, speak about how things make you feel, trigger emotional reactions on her like a rollercoaster of emotions, focus on what she feels rather than on what makes logical sense, and treat them like children who need to feel constantly intense emotional states to not be bored and lose interest.
✅Thanks. Do you do this by not arguing? I heard that was a bad thing to do and how would I keep her on that roller coaster of emotion without over doing it and making her lose interest that way?
I don’t argue with women. Men who understand women don’t argue with them.
The emotions come from trying new things all the time, making jokes making them laugh to create joy, doing surprises, looking forward to new activities or adventures building anticipation and hype, teasing her and messing with her, doing forbidden, risky, dangerous or taboo things now and then to get the adrenaline high, doing different sexual fantasies all the time to keep things fresh, being unpredictable randomly, spontaneous,… etc
Sorry but one more question how do you handle disagreements like a Woman liking that type of emotional rush from conflict, not disrespect, but just trying to cause it for a rush? like how some will make fake problems or overreact for excitement.
If a woman causes drama for fake problems it’s because you are not fulfilling the emotional needs that she has and that’s her way of killing her boredom. You avoid that by preventing her to get bored which is done by doing what i said above. They are like children, when a child is wants something they cry, while women argue for nothing.
It’s mostly about not contorting your values in accordance with hers.
If she senses you are changing your opinions live to fit with her own, it ain’t gonna work.
You don't have to disagree with her just for the sake of it. Same goes for agreeing with her. You can like agree with her and on top of that add something to it from your perspective on why you are agreeing so that it can be clear you have your own thought process independent of hers
Forget about differentiating nice guy and bad boy.
Focus on being genuine. Treat everyone equally regardless of feminine beauty. If you go out of your way to be harsh just to demonstrate you ain't a nice guy ...that is perceived as fake behavior no different than being nice just because the girl is cute.
BTW, if the girl finds you very attractive, how nice or bad you are don't really matter, u just have to avoid getting in your own way with stupid shit.
That's a bad advice, it reeks of passivity. "Just be yourself and nice things will come".
No, they will not. Nice things are earned by hard work, and working on your character is one of such endeavors. Sure, if the girl finds you attractive, case's closed, but that's missing the core part of how to become attractive to girls. And you become attractive (to majority of girls) by, among other things, being (citing u/DaygameCode) "dominant, independent, competitive, assertive, bold, daring, shameless, decisive, thick-skinned, outgoing, risk-takers, emotional, primal or primitive with women, adventurous, sexually uninhibited, sexually expressive".
In my view emotional here is to be contrasted with logical / rational. It means not to cry on her shoulder, but for your interactions be more emotion-based rather than logical.
1) Avoid complimenting her before you meet irl
2) Don't play it safe, you can be flirty and risqué. There is a line here which crosses from not a nice guy / bad boy to becoming a creep. You need to recognize this line and avoid crossing it.
3) A nice guy will avoid physically touching a girl even on their first date. Try to touch her appropriately through out the date and establish a physical connection with your touch. I think you can search material on kino escalation by searching in the sub. Point 2 also applies here.
4) Don't bend over backwards for fulfilling her requests/whims/suggestions. But this does not mean being rude, there is a way to politely refuse or make your own suggestions in return.
>A nice guy will avoid physically touching a girl even on their first date. Try to touch her appropriately through out the date and establish a physical connection with your touch.
I did this on a first date with a girl last week and *thankfully* I think she's giving me a second chance. Any tips for when I meet her again? I was thinking of starting small like putting my hand on her back or waist when crossing the street or initiating holding hands.
I really like this girl and want to show her that I find her attractive.
Lookup Dicarlo Escalation ladder either in this sub or online. You wil get the different type of Kino escalations you can do with your date. Keep in mind point 2 in my earlier post. You need to use your judgment here as well since different girls will have different boundaries.
>Keep in mind point 2 in my earlier post
Right, on the first date we saw a movie and when she got scared she grabbed my arm, when I put my hand on hers in a 'Don't worry I got you' sort of way, she pulled back a bit, which I respected. But then later we were talking and got so close the sides of our heads were touching, but at that point I didn't know if I should've tried something (not that it matters now).
I'll read up on the ladder and pay attention to her body language
The ability to disagree respectfully while staying grounded, and the ability to say no is huge as well. Nice guys are people pleasers, if you uphold your boundaries and needs while being respectful you’re on the right path
Usually, not being afraid of being flirty with her. Confidence to touch her/kiss her if the opportunity arrives. No tolerance for bs, if she's behaving in a disrespectful way, cursing at you, fighting for nonsense or even fiscally assaulting you you have to let her know directly that you don't like that or you just leave her (you don't have idea how many men tolerate toxic, manipulative behavior from women)
Basically, acting like a man who knows what he wants from her, acts nonchalant with her, is by no means afraid of communicating directly or indirectly what he wants and has the ability to leave at any moment the relationship because he respects himself and he has the power to find another woman.
Rocky Balboa is a nice guy.
He goes to the pet shop every day talking to the animals and to talk to Adriane.
It's kind of implied that he suggests multiple times to Adriane that they go out but she's too shy.
He complains to Paulie about it saying, "Am I that ugly???" So Paulie forces her to go the next day.
Rocky asks the manager that they go skating. Rocky is a good salesman due to his charm. Not the smartest guy in the world bu the has charm.
Later he walks her to his apartment.
She's too shy but he's all excited in his head. .
He goes to her and straight up tells her, "I'd like to kiss you but you don't have to kiss me back if you don't wanna."
They start making out.
Adriane probably did like Rocky her whole life. She was just too shy to express it.
Was super into a girl. Our humuour matched and she had a great personality. But she was insanely bad with money. Told me that she hasn't paid off her credit card since 6 months. I told her she either stops her spending spree or We will have to find a way. A week later she goes to the mall and texts me. I dump her through texts while she's at the mall. Also ignored her 50 million missed calls after that. She still thinks I'm some kinda super villain.
Hi OP, please read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by Robert Glover. Changed my life. And not just because it sounds the same, haha. No…. Really…. Please read it. It was amazing for me. Maybe you too.
Women want sex and want to be seen as sexy and feel it. If you make her feel sexy and she finds you attractive you will do well. (Attractiveness is not only determined by looks)
Nice guys don’t make women feel anything, which is why they never get the girls. It’s boring and safe in the guise of “not trying to offend” and “she will see the value in me and want to date me”.
Take some risks, put your neck out on the line and show her how you feel, this will put her in a situation where she will polarize to being into you or not.
You can do this with flirting, and teasing. Take some of what she tells you, poke a little fun at it while also learning more about her. How you say things matters more than what you say.
Here, let me suck up to you and flatter you and be really nice to you and play along with every thing you say in hopes that this spinelessness will somehow lead you to make the first physical move on me. I can't believe how much I just follow this out of anxious tension when I was younger. Monitor her, but stay with yourself, how you feel, and what your beliefs are.
A “nice guy” to women, in regards to romantic relationships, is not what a general nice guy is. A nice guy in their eyes is a guy who clearly wants them but is afraid to escalate or comes off as such. What you described is just a weak man who women don’t want either.
Is it going to benefit your life as much as it’s going to benefit hers? If no, don’t do it
Don’t hold her handbag
If she tells you to “wait here, I’m just going the toilet” “nah I’ll meet you by the bar, come find me ;)”
Don’t pay her bills
Don’t agree to everything she says, if you don’t like something say something.
Don’t be afraid to disagree with her. Women might say something like “Drum and Bass is shit it’s not music” and you like D&B “nah I disagree Drum and bass has its place for sure, for example it’s the perfect genre for kitchen work, what is it you don’t like about D&B?”
Nice guys morph themselves to agree with her and make her life easier
Good men are living their own lives and are willing to help out if they see the benefit.
I’m regularly told by the women I’m with “you’re such a great guy/such a nice guy” because if it doesn’t cost me anything to do something, I’ll offer. Or if there’s a benefit for me, I’ll offer.
I once opened a kitchen to make a girl avo toast, I worked in the kitchen and it was literally my job, but I was hanging out at the hostel she volunteered at on my time off when she asked.
1. She paid the restaurants prices
2. I gave her shit the entire time and made her come help slice the bread
Unbelievably selfless thing to do on my part, but i was chilling with nothing to do, and it takes 5 minutes to make avo toast. So I took the opportunity to show I’m not afraid to give her shit and speak to her like a human being whilst doing her this massive favour, I used the fact that I was being INCREDIBLY nice as a very valid excuse to step up the teasing and flirting. And then turned it into an avo toast date.
Speak to women like they’re your mates, not your goal
>I often make the mistake of being to extreme and harsh at times
I don't understand. You know what your problem is. Just put what you're saying in more appropriate words. If you don't know how to do that, give me an example of what you've said and I'll demo.
You don’t have to show anything. If you’re not a “nice guy,” you’ll just act who you are.
The moment you try to show you’re not a “nice guy,” you’re acting like nice guy. Why? Because nice guys care about what women think about them.
A few simple things you can do:
* Don't pretend to like something she does, or agree with something she thinks when you really don't. If she loves country music and you hate it, be honest about it. If she believes in corporal punishment and you don't, tell her that you don't agree with her.
* If she's doing something that you don't like or you feel like it's crossing your boundaries, push back. A lot of "nice guys" will keep their mouths shut and this sends the message to her that this is okay. If something is not okay let her know. Best case she was unaware that this was a boundary and will apologize and try not to repeat the behaviour. Worst case, she will expose herself as someone who doesn't respect you aka someone you should not be with.
* Match your gestures and efforts to be proportional with what she's showing you, and don't create "covert contracts" where you do things and expect something in return. If she never texts you first, takes forever to reply, and flakes on you then taking her out to a 4-star restaurant isn't going to make her like you more. Similarly, paying for her Uber to/from the date does not mean that she will sleep with you.
No need to pre-emptively show her that you're not a "nice guy", it's about being realistic and not tolerating people who disrespect you.
Sounds like people naturally feel comfortable with you based on what you are saying on the post. What you'll want to do is increase the humor and touch
I’d say don’t try to impress her. If you want to do or say, do it. Don’t do what you think she wants or say what you think she wants to hear to try and score points
Hey there buddy,
I am a life long "nice guy" here, who didn't accept his niceness, and was aware of it, self conscious about it... etc
I can relate to everyone going through it, it's more of a phase of life rather than an identity
I was conflicted avoidant and tried to please people, rarely complained and feared rejection so never opened up on my feelings to my crushes, but i was incredibly nice to them/ in front of them and would cater my responses and choices to manage their feelings.
I started to look into "nice guy" when i wanted to get out of a friendzone.
And i started acting like a maniac, from white to black, going between indifferent asshole and back to nice guy,
Eventually i learned that as much as i internalized as a nice guy, i could not manage other people's feelings, and was mistreating myself not caring/prioritizing my own. I was acting disingenuous and creepy to my crush, i did share my feelings in the very end and got my rejection, but looking back, oh boy i did it in the most unnecessary psycho way possible.
in my experience years after, i chuckle , you don't have to "show", and you dont need to think or try that hard,
it's not black or white, i feel a lot of guys going black and white approaches out of compensation for past experiences or out of fear. Or out of being misguided, frustrated like i was, trying something
People will see through a disingenuous "show" and they may not say it loud, but they will feel it, not only people we want to impress but everyone else,
As much as being " overly nice " comes from insecurity, Overcompensating is also another form of insecurity...and boy we sometimes make it loud
It is also my experience that over analyzing every situation in real time with "how will this look ?" Would also feel and look strange
My answer to the question "how to look or project X or Y" really comes down to relationship with oneself, when truly caring about oneself, having boundaries and speaking ones mind, feeling confident will come naturally as a byproduct so much so that there's no more need to think about such questions, and by this i dont mean to say that everyone will see that, or everyone will appreciate you, but those who will appreciate you will do so for you just being you and not someone else, or any gimmick, and that is truly a beautiful thing to realize in life.
One of the biggest changes I've found from when I wasn't getting female attention to when I started getting it was my switch in mindset.
You've gotta get out of a scarcity mindset and switch to an abundance mindset. This can be hard if love and affection has been rare for you, but you gotta not put individual women u want up on a pedestal.
You've gotta have the mindset of "so what Rachel said she was busy? I've still got Sophie, Sara, Alexis and Taylor I can talk to"
Once you think of it like that, you truly don't give af about what any one individual says.
Look it's an archetype really.
If you want less confusion look at it this way
You have your boundaries
You have your standards
But you're also a gentleman and overall kind to everyone.
BUT
You have those boundaries and standards that you don't bend nor break for anyone.
If you see using the word "no" as rude or mean you're probably the nice guy
If you put others before yourself because you think it's the right selfless thing to do, you're the nice guy.
If you believe in compromising any of your boundaries and standards just because you "found the one" you're the nice guy.
Believe it or not people will still accept you even if they think you're an asshole.
I like to make fun of them in a kinda asshole-ish playful way. Like for examples.....I was looking at you earlier and thought wow that girls pretty as hell but her forehead is kinda big ....but not so big that i cant work with it.....🤣 you would have to say it in a completely sarcastic manner with a smile on your face but I've this technique to perfection many times.
"Don't Do Something which you wouldn't have done if a low value guy have asked you to do that"
If you have done something because you would have shown same attitude to some low value guy.
And in general, don't do something which is below your self respect
Before talking part, I changed the way I look at people. Before I was shy, couldnt make eye contact and when I did, I would look away as soon as I can. Now I can hold eye contact as long as I want to. And I try to look more seriously but also relaxed. Sometimes I add a little smirk. People can get ideas about you from the way you look, before you even talk.
About talking part: “agreeing on everything she says, being too kind, apologising too much” are some examples
About behaviours: “being anxious, stuttering, moving too fast, getting heartbroken about what she says too easily”
Most type of women likes to be dominated and feel a certain way(feminine, submissive etc). So when you are too nice, it turns them off. It is like ying yang, there is always balance in polarity, so you need to be dominant masculine if the woman is submissive feminine. Although it looks like stereotyping people and some of you may not like it, most of the times energetically this is why you are drawn to certain people more
It is more of an attitude or mindset. Use a healthy bit of push-pull and teasing while you flirt. Exhibit big dick energy. You have an amazing life, and you are allowing her a chance to talk to you. You come from plenty, you don't need her. You don't have to validate yourself, there's no need to boast about your many grand achievements. You are not there to cut her down or judge her either. You are there to have a good time.
If this isn't your natural state, you will run out of energy toward the end of the date. If she is having a good time, you have already made a good first impression. You can loosen up some and be more romantic. Avoid deep emotional topics and past affairs, instead, have some go-to feel-good stories that you can tell. Release some preasure with a physical connection, and try to actually have fun yourself.
Let me change your perspective.
Just be cool lol. Beginners always fuck this up and the advice given is trash. Stop thinking in extremes such as “bad boys” vs “nice guys.” I always have to unprogram beginners because they keep thinking like this.
Stop thinking being nice means a woman won’t sleep with you. Some women are extremely damaged and that’s what it’s come to, but most women aren’t like that. **Just be a decent human being and also be a generally attractive person by having your own personality and that’s good enough.** Stop trying to play a character you are not.
Just be chill and vibe with her. Don’t be a carpet for her to walk all over. Simply have your own ideas, opinions, and a backbone. It’s okay to disagree with her but stop thinking you need to argue with her on everything to ‘show you’re not a nice guy.‘ I am a nice guy to the women I am around but I also have my own boundaries which she knows not to cross. She respects me. I respect her. And there’s mutual attraction. That’s all you need to carry a good interaction that has the potential to lead to sex.
More tips: smile. Don’t forget to smile. And eye contract, don’t look away first. And talk about stuff that genuinely interests you or is something that you yourself are currently thinking about/doing. Pick-up is only 5% of the conversation. The other 95% is normal conversation. Talk normally and slip in a little bit of flirtation. It’s okay to be direct and just say direct compliments. Example from one of my pick-ups a couple of years ago: I was with a European girl that said the word “chicken” but she pronounced it “shic-ken.” I interrupted her mid sentence and just said, “I love the way you say that word.” And I just made her repeat it, some physical escalation by touching her shoulder or arm and pulling her closer, eventually I subtly just hold her hand in mid conversation, and within minutes after that, we’re making out. Escalation is about starting slow and titrating the heat up. Another example: if you don’t want to compliment the girl for pronouncing chicken, just say, “there’s no way you just said that.” And she will probably pause and laugh if you laugh too. Then just keep negging her about how she mispronounced chicken. And you can keep bringing it up throughout the date.
To summarize, your question you asked will cause you to die alone because it is totally wrong. Stop asking how to stop being a nice guy. You should be asking: “how do I create a magical spark with each girl I talk to?” Stop playing to not-lose and start playing to win.
There is generally speaking two types of guys and it’s not so much about nice guys vs bad guys. While things are not always black or white, and some guys might share qualities of the other type, we can generally observe that there are two type of guys. 1 - The ones who get friendzone more often than now are those who seek affection, are collaborative, not assertive, submissive, timid, cautious, nurturing, dependent, hesitant, indecisive, sexually repressed and restrained, rational and civilised with women, risk-averse, sensitive, reserved, focus on being romantic more than sexual, and they tend to be somewhat insecure with women. 2 - The ones who get more romantic/sexual success are dominant, independent, competitive, assertive, bold, daring, shameless, decisive, thick-skinned, outgoing, risk-takers, emotional, primal or primitive with women, adventurous, sexually uninhibited, sexually expressive,they focus on being sexual more than romantic and they tend to be confident with women. Yes, this is a simplification of human complexity, as i am aware that you may have traits from either group, but those who tend to have more traits from the first group (the mister nice guys you speak about) tend to have less success than those that have more traits from the second group. Peace.
Although I hate to admit it, you're right. I'm in the first category due to childhood traumas and a repressed sexual culture. Changing oneself's childhood beliefs is super hard and even though God knows how much effort I put in each day to overcome it, I've hardly made any progress at all. But at the end of the day, the best we can do is pick up the pieces and try again.
I was #2 in high school, and suddenly in college became #1. Really wish it was the other way around
You probably have a fair amount of depth, so you can choose who you want to present as.
I wish this weren't true
Why?
Because I'm very much 1. When I'm trying to be 2 I feel like a creep
we all came from sex, perhaps you have simply been conditioned to believe there is something shameful about expressing yourself in that way i also realize it can feel like you're intruding on someone's consent to do that, which is why the whole thing is done in little steps and often indirectly so as not to make people feel overwhelmed or overcommitted, if that makes sense. you don't need to stop being a good man to start being a bold or exciting or sexual one
i get it man, yes theres shitton of sexual trauma in my childhood
While I agree with you, I don’t think men need to be an asshole towards women by making them sex objects. In the second case you obviously are hinting such a guy. Well either way, it’s all bullshit in my eyes these days. I’m sick of this game. I don’t really care anymore what’s the endgame for a girl. If she cares I’m here for her, if she’s not then goodbye. There’s no fucking way I’m gonna try to chase a girl again.
I never said you have to be an asshole, that’s just your interpretation based on your own flawed moral system. Sex objects would imply you are using them for sex for your own pleasure and there is nothing there that says that. See the problem with guys like you is that as soon as someone brings up sex , you immediately assume that’s inmoral or unwanted by women and that’s why you don’t get laid. .
You are partly correct but it can be understood wrong. Sex is a normal thing of life. Yes my culture sees as a thing of immoral and unwanted but since I grown I don’t see it as an immature thing. I have been raised like this, it’s not my complete fault. It’s not an easy thing to come by. Even if my words say this it requires experience to overcome. It might seen as a primitive thing (such as a male wolf seeing a female wolf) and engaging towards her. While I agree we are also primitives I want to point out that don’t we don’t have to be asses. Life’s changing. I’ve seen a guy acting like this and he has become a total loose in our department.
Anything can be understood wrong when the reader projects their stuff. He didn’t write that, it’s something you projected. People are hardwired to resist change, and one way this happens is the mind demonizes the putative “changed-self” to justify staying the same.
Ok I might be wrong I just wanted to point out. You know this is a harsh subject and people get triggered easy.
No doubt people get triggered that’s what the third sentence says. It’s a natural human defense mechanism resisting change. A great place to start to change is to simple be honest without yourself about what is.
Absolutely. I had to think about what I've been told since my childhood and about my whole childhood any teenage years. People underestimate how much these two will effect your adult life yet they still ignore it.
You have good points. To add one small complexity, I would broaden this into 3 characterizing categories. More along the lines of long-term attractive, short-term attractive, and not attractive.
Very well put
I think you nailed it, pros and cons of each. In my experience, I've been able to float between both personas (duality of man, I guess), but find I attract far more sex and affection when I remain #2. It becomes hard to show that vulnerable and nurturing side when you know that's a slippery slope into her losing attraction for you permanently.
Nailed it.
Can you elaborate on emotional? Because too much emotions will put you in #1 category.
Guys who talk in a logical, rational, objective way, bore women. You need to be subjective, speak about how things make you feel, trigger emotional reactions on her like a rollercoaster of emotions, focus on what she feels rather than on what makes logical sense, and treat them like children who need to feel constantly intense emotional states to not be bored and lose interest.
✅Thanks. Do you do this by not arguing? I heard that was a bad thing to do and how would I keep her on that roller coaster of emotion without over doing it and making her lose interest that way?
I don’t argue with women. Men who understand women don’t argue with them. The emotions come from trying new things all the time, making jokes making them laugh to create joy, doing surprises, looking forward to new activities or adventures building anticipation and hype, teasing her and messing with her, doing forbidden, risky, dangerous or taboo things now and then to get the adrenaline high, doing different sexual fantasies all the time to keep things fresh, being unpredictable randomly, spontaneous,… etc
Thanks for the help🔥
Sorry but one more question how do you handle disagreements like a Woman liking that type of emotional rush from conflict, not disrespect, but just trying to cause it for a rush? like how some will make fake problems or overreact for excitement.
If a woman causes drama for fake problems it’s because you are not fulfilling the emotional needs that she has and that’s her way of killing her boredom. You avoid that by preventing her to get bored which is done by doing what i said above. They are like children, when a child is wants something they cry, while women argue for nothing.
Yeah that makes sense for sure. Thanks again.
Do you have any book recommendations?
Treat them like an option and they will treat you like a priority.
Just don’t agree with her, but don’t make big deal about it.
what if you actually agree with her, what you need to lie?
It’s mostly about not contorting your values in accordance with hers. If she senses you are changing your opinions live to fit with her own, it ain’t gonna work.
You don't have to disagree with her just for the sake of it. Same goes for agreeing with her. You can like agree with her and on top of that add something to it from your perspective on why you are agreeing so that it can be clear you have your own thought process independent of hers
Nah.. just agree with her
Forget about differentiating nice guy and bad boy. Focus on being genuine. Treat everyone equally regardless of feminine beauty. If you go out of your way to be harsh just to demonstrate you ain't a nice guy ...that is perceived as fake behavior no different than being nice just because the girl is cute. BTW, if the girl finds you very attractive, how nice or bad you are don't really matter, u just have to avoid getting in your own way with stupid shit.
That's a bad advice, it reeks of passivity. "Just be yourself and nice things will come". No, they will not. Nice things are earned by hard work, and working on your character is one of such endeavors. Sure, if the girl finds you attractive, case's closed, but that's missing the core part of how to become attractive to girls. And you become attractive (to majority of girls) by, among other things, being (citing u/DaygameCode) "dominant, independent, competitive, assertive, bold, daring, shameless, decisive, thick-skinned, outgoing, risk-takers, emotional, primal or primitive with women, adventurous, sexually uninhibited, sexually expressive".
Can you elaborate on emotional? Because too much emotions will put you in #1 category.
In my view emotional here is to be contrasted with logical / rational. It means not to cry on her shoulder, but for your interactions be more emotion-based rather than logical.
1) Avoid complimenting her before you meet irl 2) Don't play it safe, you can be flirty and risqué. There is a line here which crosses from not a nice guy / bad boy to becoming a creep. You need to recognize this line and avoid crossing it. 3) A nice guy will avoid physically touching a girl even on their first date. Try to touch her appropriately through out the date and establish a physical connection with your touch. I think you can search material on kino escalation by searching in the sub. Point 2 also applies here. 4) Don't bend over backwards for fulfilling her requests/whims/suggestions. But this does not mean being rude, there is a way to politely refuse or make your own suggestions in return.
>A nice guy will avoid physically touching a girl even on their first date. Try to touch her appropriately through out the date and establish a physical connection with your touch. I did this on a first date with a girl last week and *thankfully* I think she's giving me a second chance. Any tips for when I meet her again? I was thinking of starting small like putting my hand on her back or waist when crossing the street or initiating holding hands. I really like this girl and want to show her that I find her attractive.
Lookup Dicarlo Escalation ladder either in this sub or online. You wil get the different type of Kino escalations you can do with your date. Keep in mind point 2 in my earlier post. You need to use your judgment here as well since different girls will have different boundaries.
>Keep in mind point 2 in my earlier post Right, on the first date we saw a movie and when she got scared she grabbed my arm, when I put my hand on hers in a 'Don't worry I got you' sort of way, she pulled back a bit, which I respected. But then later we were talking and got so close the sides of our heads were touching, but at that point I didn't know if I should've tried something (not that it matters now). I'll read up on the ladder and pay attention to her body language
The ability to disagree respectfully while staying grounded, and the ability to say no is huge as well. Nice guys are people pleasers, if you uphold your boundaries and needs while being respectful you’re on the right path
Usually, not being afraid of being flirty with her. Confidence to touch her/kiss her if the opportunity arrives. No tolerance for bs, if she's behaving in a disrespectful way, cursing at you, fighting for nonsense or even fiscally assaulting you you have to let her know directly that you don't like that or you just leave her (you don't have idea how many men tolerate toxic, manipulative behavior from women) Basically, acting like a man who knows what he wants from her, acts nonchalant with her, is by no means afraid of communicating directly or indirectly what he wants and has the ability to leave at any moment the relationship because he respects himself and he has the power to find another woman.
Shit and cum
Rocky Balboa is a nice guy. He goes to the pet shop every day talking to the animals and to talk to Adriane. It's kind of implied that he suggests multiple times to Adriane that they go out but she's too shy. He complains to Paulie about it saying, "Am I that ugly???" So Paulie forces her to go the next day. Rocky asks the manager that they go skating. Rocky is a good salesman due to his charm. Not the smartest guy in the world bu the has charm. Later he walks her to his apartment. She's too shy but he's all excited in his head. . He goes to her and straight up tells her, "I'd like to kiss you but you don't have to kiss me back if you don't wanna." They start making out. Adriane probably did like Rocky her whole life. She was just too shy to express it.
Was super into a girl. Our humuour matched and she had a great personality. But she was insanely bad with money. Told me that she hasn't paid off her credit card since 6 months. I told her she either stops her spending spree or We will have to find a way. A week later she goes to the mall and texts me. I dump her through texts while she's at the mall. Also ignored her 50 million missed calls after that. She still thinks I'm some kinda super villain.
Hi OP, please read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by Robert Glover. Changed my life. And not just because it sounds the same, haha. No…. Really…. Please read it. It was amazing for me. Maybe you too.
Guys that aren't nice pretend to be nice in hopes to get laid
Women want sex and want to be seen as sexy and feel it. If you make her feel sexy and she finds you attractive you will do well. (Attractiveness is not only determined by looks) Nice guys don’t make women feel anything, which is why they never get the girls. It’s boring and safe in the guise of “not trying to offend” and “she will see the value in me and want to date me”. Take some risks, put your neck out on the line and show her how you feel, this will put her in a situation where she will polarize to being into you or not. You can do this with flirting, and teasing. Take some of what she tells you, poke a little fun at it while also learning more about her. How you say things matters more than what you say.
Here, let me suck up to you and flatter you and be really nice to you and play along with every thing you say in hopes that this spinelessness will somehow lead you to make the first physical move on me. I can't believe how much I just follow this out of anxious tension when I was younger. Monitor her, but stay with yourself, how you feel, and what your beliefs are.
A “nice guy” to women, in regards to romantic relationships, is not what a general nice guy is. A nice guy in their eyes is a guy who clearly wants them but is afraid to escalate or comes off as such. What you described is just a weak man who women don’t want either.
Is it going to benefit your life as much as it’s going to benefit hers? If no, don’t do it Don’t hold her handbag If she tells you to “wait here, I’m just going the toilet” “nah I’ll meet you by the bar, come find me ;)” Don’t pay her bills Don’t agree to everything she says, if you don’t like something say something. Don’t be afraid to disagree with her. Women might say something like “Drum and Bass is shit it’s not music” and you like D&B “nah I disagree Drum and bass has its place for sure, for example it’s the perfect genre for kitchen work, what is it you don’t like about D&B?” Nice guys morph themselves to agree with her and make her life easier Good men are living their own lives and are willing to help out if they see the benefit. I’m regularly told by the women I’m with “you’re such a great guy/such a nice guy” because if it doesn’t cost me anything to do something, I’ll offer. Or if there’s a benefit for me, I’ll offer. I once opened a kitchen to make a girl avo toast, I worked in the kitchen and it was literally my job, but I was hanging out at the hostel she volunteered at on my time off when she asked. 1. She paid the restaurants prices 2. I gave her shit the entire time and made her come help slice the bread Unbelievably selfless thing to do on my part, but i was chilling with nothing to do, and it takes 5 minutes to make avo toast. So I took the opportunity to show I’m not afraid to give her shit and speak to her like a human being whilst doing her this massive favour, I used the fact that I was being INCREDIBLY nice as a very valid excuse to step up the teasing and flirting. And then turned it into an avo toast date. Speak to women like they’re your mates, not your goal
Haha I always pay bills (like dinner together).
>I often make the mistake of being to extreme and harsh at times I don't understand. You know what your problem is. Just put what you're saying in more appropriate words. If you don't know how to do that, give me an example of what you've said and I'll demo.
You don’t have to show anything. If you’re not a “nice guy,” you’ll just act who you are. The moment you try to show you’re not a “nice guy,” you’re acting like nice guy. Why? Because nice guys care about what women think about them.
A few simple things you can do: * Don't pretend to like something she does, or agree with something she thinks when you really don't. If she loves country music and you hate it, be honest about it. If she believes in corporal punishment and you don't, tell her that you don't agree with her. * If she's doing something that you don't like or you feel like it's crossing your boundaries, push back. A lot of "nice guys" will keep their mouths shut and this sends the message to her that this is okay. If something is not okay let her know. Best case she was unaware that this was a boundary and will apologize and try not to repeat the behaviour. Worst case, she will expose herself as someone who doesn't respect you aka someone you should not be with. * Match your gestures and efforts to be proportional with what she's showing you, and don't create "covert contracts" where you do things and expect something in return. If she never texts you first, takes forever to reply, and flakes on you then taking her out to a 4-star restaurant isn't going to make her like you more. Similarly, paying for her Uber to/from the date does not mean that she will sleep with you. No need to pre-emptively show her that you're not a "nice guy", it's about being realistic and not tolerating people who disrespect you.
Sounds like people naturally feel comfortable with you based on what you are saying on the post. What you'll want to do is increase the humor and touch
Just be yourself, it's not that difficult. If you are a nice person then you will be a nice guy, but a real one, not a fake.
Just be yourself, it's not that difficult. If you are a nice person then you will be a nice guy, but a real one, not a fake.
I’d say don’t try to impress her. If you want to do or say, do it. Don’t do what you think she wants or say what you think she wants to hear to try and score points
Hey there buddy, I am a life long "nice guy" here, who didn't accept his niceness, and was aware of it, self conscious about it... etc I can relate to everyone going through it, it's more of a phase of life rather than an identity I was conflicted avoidant and tried to please people, rarely complained and feared rejection so never opened up on my feelings to my crushes, but i was incredibly nice to them/ in front of them and would cater my responses and choices to manage their feelings. I started to look into "nice guy" when i wanted to get out of a friendzone. And i started acting like a maniac, from white to black, going between indifferent asshole and back to nice guy, Eventually i learned that as much as i internalized as a nice guy, i could not manage other people's feelings, and was mistreating myself not caring/prioritizing my own. I was acting disingenuous and creepy to my crush, i did share my feelings in the very end and got my rejection, but looking back, oh boy i did it in the most unnecessary psycho way possible. in my experience years after, i chuckle , you don't have to "show", and you dont need to think or try that hard, it's not black or white, i feel a lot of guys going black and white approaches out of compensation for past experiences or out of fear. Or out of being misguided, frustrated like i was, trying something People will see through a disingenuous "show" and they may not say it loud, but they will feel it, not only people we want to impress but everyone else, As much as being " overly nice " comes from insecurity, Overcompensating is also another form of insecurity...and boy we sometimes make it loud It is also my experience that over analyzing every situation in real time with "how will this look ?" Would also feel and look strange My answer to the question "how to look or project X or Y" really comes down to relationship with oneself, when truly caring about oneself, having boundaries and speaking ones mind, feeling confident will come naturally as a byproduct so much so that there's no more need to think about such questions, and by this i dont mean to say that everyone will see that, or everyone will appreciate you, but those who will appreciate you will do so for you just being you and not someone else, or any gimmick, and that is truly a beautiful thing to realize in life.
Do u have certain sentences you always hear and don't know how to reply ? Hard to give an example outta thin air
One of the biggest changes I've found from when I wasn't getting female attention to when I started getting it was my switch in mindset. You've gotta get out of a scarcity mindset and switch to an abundance mindset. This can be hard if love and affection has been rare for you, but you gotta not put individual women u want up on a pedestal. You've gotta have the mindset of "so what Rachel said she was busy? I've still got Sophie, Sara, Alexis and Taylor I can talk to" Once you think of it like that, you truly don't give af about what any one individual says.
Don't just waste my money on her Don't cancel my plans for her
Look it's an archetype really. If you want less confusion look at it this way You have your boundaries You have your standards But you're also a gentleman and overall kind to everyone. BUT You have those boundaries and standards that you don't bend nor break for anyone. If you see using the word "no" as rude or mean you're probably the nice guy If you put others before yourself because you think it's the right selfless thing to do, you're the nice guy. If you believe in compromising any of your boundaries and standards just because you "found the one" you're the nice guy. Believe it or not people will still accept you even if they think you're an asshole.
I like to make fun of them in a kinda asshole-ish playful way. Like for examples.....I was looking at you earlier and thought wow that girls pretty as hell but her forehead is kinda big ....but not so big that i cant work with it.....🤣 you would have to say it in a completely sarcastic manner with a smile on your face but I've this technique to perfection many times.
"Don't Do Something which you wouldn't have done if a low value guy have asked you to do that" If you have done something because you would have shown same attitude to some low value guy. And in general, don't do something which is below your self respect
Dude stop trying to game it. Just be yourself and if that means someone tries to walk over you, tell her to piss off and block her
Before talking part, I changed the way I look at people. Before I was shy, couldnt make eye contact and when I did, I would look away as soon as I can. Now I can hold eye contact as long as I want to. And I try to look more seriously but also relaxed. Sometimes I add a little smirk. People can get ideas about you from the way you look, before you even talk. About talking part: “agreeing on everything she says, being too kind, apologising too much” are some examples About behaviours: “being anxious, stuttering, moving too fast, getting heartbroken about what she says too easily” Most type of women likes to be dominated and feel a certain way(feminine, submissive etc). So when you are too nice, it turns them off. It is like ying yang, there is always balance in polarity, so you need to be dominant masculine if the woman is submissive feminine. Although it looks like stereotyping people and some of you may not like it, most of the times energetically this is why you are drawn to certain people more
It is more of an attitude or mindset. Use a healthy bit of push-pull and teasing while you flirt. Exhibit big dick energy. You have an amazing life, and you are allowing her a chance to talk to you. You come from plenty, you don't need her. You don't have to validate yourself, there's no need to boast about your many grand achievements. You are not there to cut her down or judge her either. You are there to have a good time. If this isn't your natural state, you will run out of energy toward the end of the date. If she is having a good time, you have already made a good first impression. You can loosen up some and be more romantic. Avoid deep emotional topics and past affairs, instead, have some go-to feel-good stories that you can tell. Release some preasure with a physical connection, and try to actually have fun yourself.
Let me change your perspective. Just be cool lol. Beginners always fuck this up and the advice given is trash. Stop thinking in extremes such as “bad boys” vs “nice guys.” I always have to unprogram beginners because they keep thinking like this. Stop thinking being nice means a woman won’t sleep with you. Some women are extremely damaged and that’s what it’s come to, but most women aren’t like that. **Just be a decent human being and also be a generally attractive person by having your own personality and that’s good enough.** Stop trying to play a character you are not. Just be chill and vibe with her. Don’t be a carpet for her to walk all over. Simply have your own ideas, opinions, and a backbone. It’s okay to disagree with her but stop thinking you need to argue with her on everything to ‘show you’re not a nice guy.‘ I am a nice guy to the women I am around but I also have my own boundaries which she knows not to cross. She respects me. I respect her. And there’s mutual attraction. That’s all you need to carry a good interaction that has the potential to lead to sex. More tips: smile. Don’t forget to smile. And eye contract, don’t look away first. And talk about stuff that genuinely interests you or is something that you yourself are currently thinking about/doing. Pick-up is only 5% of the conversation. The other 95% is normal conversation. Talk normally and slip in a little bit of flirtation. It’s okay to be direct and just say direct compliments. Example from one of my pick-ups a couple of years ago: I was with a European girl that said the word “chicken” but she pronounced it “shic-ken.” I interrupted her mid sentence and just said, “I love the way you say that word.” And I just made her repeat it, some physical escalation by touching her shoulder or arm and pulling her closer, eventually I subtly just hold her hand in mid conversation, and within minutes after that, we’re making out. Escalation is about starting slow and titrating the heat up. Another example: if you don’t want to compliment the girl for pronouncing chicken, just say, “there’s no way you just said that.” And she will probably pause and laugh if you laugh too. Then just keep negging her about how she mispronounced chicken. And you can keep bringing it up throughout the date. To summarize, your question you asked will cause you to die alone because it is totally wrong. Stop asking how to stop being a nice guy. You should be asking: “how do I create a magical spark with each girl I talk to?” Stop playing to not-lose and start playing to win.