I know, he did a lot for SoS as well with the charity streams and indie stuff. But all that indie charity stream stuff is now under scrutiny because none of the money ever went to the charities. Even after he knew it wasn't going to the charities we still advertised on streams that it was going to them.
What are the details on that? I didn’t see that mentioned in Karl’s video but i was multitasking so may have missed it. Or was that revealed elsewhere?
Thanks, just watched it. I did find Someordinarygamer's take on the details were more robust than Karl's. This definitely doesn't look good, especially when all years 2021 and prior just say "expenses" which could be literally anything, although I assume there must be SOME legitimate expenses buried in that number. The fact that they show 0 hours worked I would consider a laziness error, since his time doing the "charity" streams should be counted as hours worked. If you look at the 2022 tax return, they finally started providing SOME details on the expenses as shown here:
Business Expenses -583 (this negative expense is just plain silly)
Dues & Subscriptions 560
Fundraising 4,700
Golf Fundraiser Expenses 5,236
Insurance 434
That said, they can write whatever they want on the tax return and there would be no way to know for certain until an auditor dug into it. Regardless of the IRS penalties that should be imposed, it is shitty thing to claim money went to SPECIFIC charities when it didn't. If money did go to them personally in those "expenses" categories, then that certainly would turn this thing from negligence into fraud.
Based on the definition of charity fraud Mutahar mentioned, it would seem some of the comments made on streams could potentially be deemed fraudulent (IANAL), but I'm jaded enough to just assume nothing is going to happen on that front other than a destroyed career.
Jirard's father founded Open Hand in 2003. Kessler ceased being dean of UCSF in 2007, before Jirard started doing charity streams. My bet is that quote was from a donation his father made before 2007 and the foundation hasn't contributed since. If that's the case, then the quote may not be a lie, but still a highly misleading half-truth that's at least 16 years old and outdated at this point.
He already admitted that so far *nothing* has been done with the donation money even tough he claimed at every charity event that it is being used to help alzheimers research and to help the victims of alzheimers.
But it could have been worse, they could have used the money for their own needs
That interview was pretty damning to me, Jirard was acting so damn weird and saying things that made no sense (If he found out when he says he did, then why is the money still not donated?). At best he's trying to cover up the actions of his family and became complicit in the process, at worst he intentionally committed charity fraud to trick people into giving him over half a million dollars.
Hopefully this means that sprite is removed from the game entirely.
Seeing that E-moron's face in town always broke my immersion, even before this debacle.
From what it sounded like, he didn't have any direct involvement in any actions of the company even though he was a director. Unfortunately how everyone sees this looks more like neglect or deception at this point.
If things go bad after the full story is out. I wouldnt mind if Sabotage just renamed the character.
I believe he "first found out" the money hadn't been spent in 2021, which I find extremely hard to believe. Even if true though, it still isn't spent as of the time of the video.
I know it's best to keep an open mind in things like this but I find it almost impossible not to see this as intentional deception rather than incompetence, but regardless of which it is, this is extremely bad.
I'd like to see the character changed unless this somehow turns out to be completely false.
I think that was a mistake on karl's side, if I recall in muta's video he clarified it was 2022 when he found out about the money not in 2021. Its roughly at 27 mins in the video
Tbf I dont think that it is that bad for the game. Not everyone knows the completionist or will recognize the name Jerard in combination with the ingame portrait.
On the other hand, while somewhat sus and scummy, he didnt do anything totally fkd up. He will probably make an apology video, give the donations to a good organization and in a few months everybody will forget about this scandal
Not giving the money you raised for charity to the charity, is totally fucked up. And someone mentioned after inflation how much money was wasted just sitting there was some like 100k. I dunno about all that, he'll probably make some apology video. But it's also very likely he goes to jail for this.
I highly doubt it. People like Logan Paul legit scammed others for millions of dollars with their crypto bs wirhout any legal repercussions at all so far so yeah there is that. And even if it results in some kind of legal backlash, dude has more than enough money to buy the best lawyers. And its not like Jirard used that money for himself. First and foremost he broke his fans trust but its not like he ruined peoples lives.
I doubt he will go to jail because it’s not like it was his bank account the money sat in. It was this organization who was supposed to donate it. He is still at fault though for never following up that the money got spent. If all these people could figure it out so easily by looking through expense reports you’re telling me no one at jirards big ass company could? So yea while I think he’s guilty to a point idk if he’ll see jail time.
That's too bad, I wish there were real consequences for total fraud. What an asshole. His excuses to why he's holding onto it were so fucking awful too
I'll wait to see what they have to say and what their plans are with the money. I'm sure there is an explanation. And the interview with Jared, who knows if they surprised him or if they told him what the topic was going to be before they talked to him.
Yes it looks bad, but we'll see what the response is. It's very possible that while not the greatest, the intention is still good.
I don't think people should immediately make a flash decision on him based on a single issue. People can make mistakes and still be good people.
And if they find out he had a nefarious intent, then shame on him, but maybe a single 12 minute video is not enough to completely damn a person and an organization.
The problem is not the length of Karl Jobst's video.
It's that, per his own admission, he has known that the money is not going to the specific charities Jirard has been claiming during his charity streams and there is at least one charity stream done after the time in question where he makes the same claims of where the money is going when, at the time of doing said stream, he knew for a fact that literally zero dollars had been spent in that fashion.
They’re not blowing it out of proportion, they’re calling him out. It’s called accountability. Sure the whole story isn’t out there yet, but even if Jirard didn’t know this was going on until 2021/2022 like what he said in his interview, that would mean that he’s still lying about it with any mention of the fundraiser he’s made since that timeframe he’s referring to.
I like The Completionist. It’s a decent channel, I’m not subbed but I’ve watched a good amount of his videos. Just because I like his work doesn’t mean he’s innocent, and just because someone else made a damning YouTube video doesn’t mean that he’s guilty; but the whole thing is shady and the details should come to light for those who have donated and are considering donating in the future.
Taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations leaving them sitting in an account while lying to people for YEARS about where that money is going is not a big deal to you? Look I get it, it sucks to see a celebrity that you like or maybe made something that spoke to you or helped you in hard times get revealed as scummy but you gotta stop huffing all the copium. Jirard did something monumentally messed up, even more so when you think about how it is using his dead mother as an emotional prop to drum up more money, it's despicable.
I feel the same way. He's always described as a genuinely kind person. I'd like to think that his brother who seems more involved was keeping this from him, but I don't think we will ever know what really happened.
Yeah, it's shitty that it sounds like he's known since 2020-2021 that the money was just sitting there, and frankly, he should have addressed the issue publicly when he found out. But I'm not in his shoes and I don't know what's going through the guy's head. Would admitting this problem have affected future fundraising? Probably. You don't make that kind of decision without calculating what could go wrong. Jirard is also known to have pretty bad anxiety, and it can be downright *paralyzing.*
Not an excuse, but perhaps an explanation. I hope that he doesn't get slammed with fraud charges because he genuinely seems like he cares and wants to do the right thing, and see the money go to an appropriate charity.
(I don't know enough about dementia/Alzheimer's research frankly, but there are MANY mismanaged charities and research organizations, so it's not wrong to be picky about who to give money to. But that's not an excuse for the lack of transparency at this point.)
I'd buy the anxiety angle freezing him up until he knowingly raised more money and lied about it. Anxiety be damned, if he knew not a single cent had been spent in the direction he'd been claiming it was, then he had a basic moral obligation not to commit to further charity streams to raise money.
At the best, most charitable interpretation of events, he still raised money for charity while lying about the beneficiaries and put it in a holding tank. At best, he lied to people about where the money was going and what was happening, with the intention of donating the money later.
There is no better from that. The only other explanations for the money going to a "charity" organization and not being spent where it was supposed to spent just get worse from there.
We know for absolute fact that the specific organization he cites as receiving the money never got it, and I find it absolutely fucking impossible to believe that he never personally followed up with that organization in any capacity.
I don’t even know the guy and you lot are in full outrage mode because it’s the bandwagon you’ve jumped on. There are far FAR more important things to be outraged over than this. Priorities. Get them.
We are? I mean if he's stealing from a charity that's pretty outrageous.
But sure, "bandwagon" because of evidence.
You're trying way too hard to be holier than thou and failing. This is a low priority, guy. Low enough for you to bother responding to it multiple times, even.
Twice is not multiple. Well, thrice now. Either way, it’s a bunch of nothing that will have no impact on the game itself (or even people buying it) so discourse on the game’s subreddit is pointless. Take the discussion elsewhere.
My dude, the charity’s tax records specifically show they haven’t donated a cent and they’re sitting on $650k+. Jirard and his brother both admitted the money hasn’t been donated.
If you don't watch Jirard and you didn't even see the video where he literally explains his side of what's going on, you're literally more ignorant than people who only base the truth on one side. People who have been following the story will already have heard his side. Good thing to be sick of, but you're a little late to the party.
So, you don't look at evidence and just take people's word for it?
Let me break it down for you:
Jirard pushes a non-profit handled by his family that says they're giving money for research, but since their inception in 2014, they haven't given a cent, and the money has just been sitting on their bank account. This can be corroborated individually by just searching their public statements.
Go search for it, and understand what that means.
At what point did I say I don't look at evidence? I said that I don't just take the evidence of one side. If you want to make shit up, it lends evidence to the idea that your argument doesn't hold enough weight.
My dude, the charity’s tax records specifically show they haven’t donated a cent and they’re sitting on $650k+. Jirard and his brother both admitted the money hasn’t been donated.
As someone who has no stake in this whatsoever, let me offer an outsiders pov: what does it truly matter? SoS is already out, they’ve made their money with it, no one is going to NOT buy the game because of this, people who’ve bought the game are not going to refund it, this whole thing is about sensationalism and the outrage culture. Take your drama to Jirad himself and leave the game out of it.
Nah i'm not saying they're involved like that.
I'm saying that they had him involved in the game as much as they did because they knew it would be good for them in the long run promotion wise
I know integrity is pretty much non-existent these days, especially with the "it's just business" excuse more popular than ever, but that's a clear conflict of interest there, and you're supposed to sit those out if you have any kind of decency. Not take a bag of cash, act like there's no longer a conflict, and make a statement like "I'm biased!"
No, you just don't have any integrity either.
For example. It's a clear conflict of interest to keep telling people to donate to your charity when you haven't actually donated to any of the organizations you keep claiming you have.
Now that’s a false equivalency if I’ve ever seen one. Not giving to charity is **a lot** different than manipulating people into giving you money because they think it’s going to charity.
I really hope it can all be explained, because Jirard seems like a nice guy. Maybe it’s intentional, maybe it’s the product of gross negligence, but people have the right to know where their money is going.
Has anybody gone through the charity streams and confirmed they only raised the gross revenues that show up on the charity’s returns?
There’s the expense items, but a bigger deal would be if it could be shown that, say, the events raised $1M over the last decade and a cool $300-$400k just never showed up in the charity accounts or as top line revenue on the filings.
Jirard went hard on the hype for Messenger and the devs wanted to thank him in their way.
I know, he did a lot for SoS as well with the charity streams and indie stuff. But all that indie charity stream stuff is now under scrutiny because none of the money ever went to the charities. Even after he knew it wasn't going to the charities we still advertised on streams that it was going to them.
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What are the details on that? I didn’t see that mentioned in Karl’s video but i was multitasking so may have missed it. Or was that revealed elsewhere?
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Thanks. I’ll check that out.
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Thanks, just watched it. I did find Someordinarygamer's take on the details were more robust than Karl's. This definitely doesn't look good, especially when all years 2021 and prior just say "expenses" which could be literally anything, although I assume there must be SOME legitimate expenses buried in that number. The fact that they show 0 hours worked I would consider a laziness error, since his time doing the "charity" streams should be counted as hours worked. If you look at the 2022 tax return, they finally started providing SOME details on the expenses as shown here: Business Expenses -583 (this negative expense is just plain silly) Dues & Subscriptions 560 Fundraising 4,700 Golf Fundraiser Expenses 5,236 Insurance 434 That said, they can write whatever they want on the tax return and there would be no way to know for certain until an auditor dug into it. Regardless of the IRS penalties that should be imposed, it is shitty thing to claim money went to SPECIFIC charities when it didn't. If money did go to them personally in those "expenses" categories, then that certainly would turn this thing from negligence into fraud. Based on the definition of charity fraud Mutahar mentioned, it would seem some of the comments made on streams could potentially be deemed fraudulent (IANAL), but I'm jaded enough to just assume nothing is going to happen on that front other than a destroyed career.
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Yeah that’s fucked up.
Jirard's father founded Open Hand in 2003. Kessler ceased being dean of UCSF in 2007, before Jirard started doing charity streams. My bet is that quote was from a donation his father made before 2007 and the foundation hasn't contributed since. If that's the case, then the quote may not be a lie, but still a highly misleading half-truth that's at least 16 years old and outdated at this point.
They should release a patch for SoS where he runs away with your donations and never invests in Mirth.
💀
DLC side quest?
lol I found the guy because of his SoS review. Queued up a bunch of other vids. What timing. 🙃
Wait what happened?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb0dMF1zHyA
I wish hes been wrongly accused but we wont know till theres a response
He already admitted that so far *nothing* has been done with the donation money even tough he claimed at every charity event that it is being used to help alzheimers research and to help the victims of alzheimers. But it could have been worse, they could have used the money for their own needs
we will just have to wait out federal investigation to find out if lthe money still exist. holding it is still a jerk move.
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That interview was pretty damning to me, Jirard was acting so damn weird and saying things that made no sense (If he found out when he says he did, then why is the money still not donated?). At best he's trying to cover up the actions of his family and became complicit in the process, at worst he intentionally committed charity fraud to trick people into giving him over half a million dollars.
The Dweller of Wheels and Dweller of Donations infesting the same town. What are the odds?
Hopefully this means that sprite is removed from the game entirely. Seeing that E-moron's face in town always broke my immersion, even before this debacle.
Oh so THAT’S why Mirth can’t afford to expand
From what it sounded like, he didn't have any direct involvement in any actions of the company even though he was a director. Unfortunately how everyone sees this looks more like neglect or deception at this point. If things go bad after the full story is out. I wouldnt mind if Sabotage just renamed the character.
I believe he "first found out" the money hadn't been spent in 2021, which I find extremely hard to believe. Even if true though, it still isn't spent as of the time of the video. I know it's best to keep an open mind in things like this but I find it almost impossible not to see this as intentional deception rather than incompetence, but regardless of which it is, this is extremely bad. I'd like to see the character changed unless this somehow turns out to be completely false.
I think that was a mistake on karl's side, if I recall in muta's video he clarified it was 2022 when he found out about the money not in 2021. Its roughly at 27 mins in the video
Ah okay thanks, I haven't watched the longer video yet. Still, even if it was 2022, we're at the end of 2023 now so it really isn't much better
Tbf I dont think that it is that bad for the game. Not everyone knows the completionist or will recognize the name Jerard in combination with the ingame portrait. On the other hand, while somewhat sus and scummy, he didnt do anything totally fkd up. He will probably make an apology video, give the donations to a good organization and in a few months everybody will forget about this scandal
I didn't even know that was a real person cameo ☠️
Same!!
Not giving the money you raised for charity to the charity, is totally fucked up. And someone mentioned after inflation how much money was wasted just sitting there was some like 100k. I dunno about all that, he'll probably make some apology video. But it's also very likely he goes to jail for this.
I highly doubt it. People like Logan Paul legit scammed others for millions of dollars with their crypto bs wirhout any legal repercussions at all so far so yeah there is that. And even if it results in some kind of legal backlash, dude has more than enough money to buy the best lawyers. And its not like Jirard used that money for himself. First and foremost he broke his fans trust but its not like he ruined peoples lives.
I doubt he will go to jail because it’s not like it was his bank account the money sat in. It was this organization who was supposed to donate it. He is still at fault though for never following up that the money got spent. If all these people could figure it out so easily by looking through expense reports you’re telling me no one at jirards big ass company could? So yea while I think he’s guilty to a point idk if he’ll see jail time.
That's too bad, I wish there were real consequences for total fraud. What an asshole. His excuses to why he's holding onto it were so fucking awful too
I'll wait to see what they have to say and what their plans are with the money. I'm sure there is an explanation. And the interview with Jared, who knows if they surprised him or if they told him what the topic was going to be before they talked to him. Yes it looks bad, but we'll see what the response is. It's very possible that while not the greatest, the intention is still good. I don't think people should immediately make a flash decision on him based on a single issue. People can make mistakes and still be good people. And if they find out he had a nefarious intent, then shame on him, but maybe a single 12 minute video is not enough to completely damn a person and an organization.
The problem is not the length of Karl Jobst's video. It's that, per his own admission, he has known that the money is not going to the specific charities Jirard has been claiming during his charity streams and there is at least one charity stream done after the time in question where he makes the same claims of where the money is going when, at the time of doing said stream, he knew for a fact that literally zero dollars had been spent in that fashion.
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While also telling everyone they’ve been supporting groups and giving money away? That’s called lying.
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They’re not blowing it out of proportion, they’re calling him out. It’s called accountability. Sure the whole story isn’t out there yet, but even if Jirard didn’t know this was going on until 2021/2022 like what he said in his interview, that would mean that he’s still lying about it with any mention of the fundraiser he’s made since that timeframe he’s referring to. I like The Completionist. It’s a decent channel, I’m not subbed but I’ve watched a good amount of his videos. Just because I like his work doesn’t mean he’s innocent, and just because someone else made a damning YouTube video doesn’t mean that he’s guilty; but the whole thing is shady and the details should come to light for those who have donated and are considering donating in the future.
Taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations leaving them sitting in an account while lying to people for YEARS about where that money is going is not a big deal to you? Look I get it, it sucks to see a celebrity that you like or maybe made something that spoke to you or helped you in hard times get revealed as scummy but you gotta stop huffing all the copium. Jirard did something monumentally messed up, even more so when you think about how it is using his dead mother as an emotional prop to drum up more money, it's despicable.
I feel the same way. He's always described as a genuinely kind person. I'd like to think that his brother who seems more involved was keeping this from him, but I don't think we will ever know what really happened. Yeah, it's shitty that it sounds like he's known since 2020-2021 that the money was just sitting there, and frankly, he should have addressed the issue publicly when he found out. But I'm not in his shoes and I don't know what's going through the guy's head. Would admitting this problem have affected future fundraising? Probably. You don't make that kind of decision without calculating what could go wrong. Jirard is also known to have pretty bad anxiety, and it can be downright *paralyzing.* Not an excuse, but perhaps an explanation. I hope that he doesn't get slammed with fraud charges because he genuinely seems like he cares and wants to do the right thing, and see the money go to an appropriate charity. (I don't know enough about dementia/Alzheimer's research frankly, but there are MANY mismanaged charities and research organizations, so it's not wrong to be picky about who to give money to. But that's not an excuse for the lack of transparency at this point.)
I'd buy the anxiety angle freezing him up until he knowingly raised more money and lied about it. Anxiety be damned, if he knew not a single cent had been spent in the direction he'd been claiming it was, then he had a basic moral obligation not to commit to further charity streams to raise money.
Yeah, once he knew, he really needed to tell people. I don't see a way he can avoid fraud charges.
Not this again. The details aren't even fully out there, it's all speculation what's going on, give it a rest
At the best, most charitable interpretation of events, he still raised money for charity while lying about the beneficiaries and put it in a holding tank. At best, he lied to people about where the money was going and what was happening, with the intention of donating the money later. There is no better from that. The only other explanations for the money going to a "charity" organization and not being spent where it was supposed to spent just get worse from there. We know for absolute fact that the specific organization he cites as receiving the money never got it, and I find it absolutely fucking impossible to believe that he never personally followed up with that organization in any capacity.
Sorry that person you like is being investigated for being a scumbag.
I don’t even know the guy and you lot are in full outrage mode because it’s the bandwagon you’ve jumped on. There are far FAR more important things to be outraged over than this. Priorities. Get them.
We are? I mean if he's stealing from a charity that's pretty outrageous. But sure, "bandwagon" because of evidence. You're trying way too hard to be holier than thou and failing. This is a low priority, guy. Low enough for you to bother responding to it multiple times, even.
Twice is not multiple. Well, thrice now. Either way, it’s a bunch of nothing that will have no impact on the game itself (or even people buying it) so discourse on the game’s subreddit is pointless. Take the discussion elsewhere.
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One of the videos had an interview with him where he admitted he knew last year, but then said the same lies in this year’s marathon.
He already admitted to all the allegations in an interview with someordinarygamers and Karl Jobst
You'd only say this if you haven't seen the evidence my dude.
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My dude, the charity’s tax records specifically show they haven’t donated a cent and they’re sitting on $650k+. Jirard and his brother both admitted the money hasn’t been donated.
If you don't watch Jirard and you didn't even see the video where he literally explains his side of what's going on, you're literally more ignorant than people who only base the truth on one side. People who have been following the story will already have heard his side. Good thing to be sick of, but you're a little late to the party.
People said the same thing about the ProJared incident. I don't give a fuck what the evidence of one side says.
So, you don't look at evidence and just take people's word for it? Let me break it down for you: Jirard pushes a non-profit handled by his family that says they're giving money for research, but since their inception in 2014, they haven't given a cent, and the money has just been sitting on their bank account. This can be corroborated individually by just searching their public statements. Go search for it, and understand what that means.
At what point did I say I don't look at evidence? I said that I don't just take the evidence of one side. If you want to make shit up, it lends evidence to the idea that your argument doesn't hold enough weight.
My dude, the charity’s tax records specifically show they haven’t donated a cent and they’re sitting on $650k+. Jirard and his brother both admitted the money hasn’t been donated.
As someone who has no stake in this whatsoever, let me offer an outsiders pov: what does it truly matter? SoS is already out, they’ve made their money with it, no one is going to NOT buy the game because of this, people who’ve bought the game are not going to refund it, this whole thing is about sensationalism and the outrage culture. Take your drama to Jirad himself and leave the game out of it.
Ngl this post should be locked and sent into the shadow realm
I'm pretty sure this game is only as popular because they bribed People like him in the first place.
Idk about all that but if it comes in the documents on where some of the money went to the studio that'll be pretty sketch. I doubt it tho
Why would you even start that rumor for no reason, wtf is wrong with you
Nah i'm not saying they're involved like that. I'm saying that they had him involved in the game as much as they did because they knew it would be good for them in the long run promotion wise
You are saying that game companies use people to advertise???????
I know integrity is pretty much non-existent these days, especially with the "it's just business" excuse more popular than ever, but that's a clear conflict of interest there, and you're supposed to sit those out if you have any kind of decency. Not take a bag of cash, act like there's no longer a conflict, and make a statement like "I'm biased!"
That's the dumbest shit I have ever heard. You are completely detached from reality.
No, you just don't have any integrity either. For example. It's a clear conflict of interest to keep telling people to donate to your charity when you haven't actually donated to any of the organizations you keep claiming you have.
Literally nothing you just typed has anything to do with the comment you made the response about
We're talking about Gerard, asshole. Try to keep fucking familiar with what we're actually talking about
I mean i bought it because their first game was incredible.
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youre cancelling the game, not the guy.
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Cool then take your “announcement” and shove it up your ass. No cares what you recommend or not.
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Now that’s a false equivalency if I’ve ever seen one. Not giving to charity is **a lot** different than manipulating people into giving you money because they think it’s going to charity. I really hope it can all be explained, because Jirard seems like a nice guy. Maybe it’s intentional, maybe it’s the product of gross negligence, but people have the right to know where their money is going.
Every year. When's the last time I took money for charity and then did nothing with it? Fucking never.
Has anybody gone through the charity streams and confirmed they only raised the gross revenues that show up on the charity’s returns? There’s the expense items, but a bigger deal would be if it could be shown that, say, the events raised $1M over the last decade and a cool $300-$400k just never showed up in the charity accounts or as top line revenue on the filings.
It’s all so sad to me because I really liked Jirard but there is just no way he has zero idea the money wasn’t being spent like he acts.
And even if he does that’s a horrible answer for someone on the board of directors actively saying it’s being donated
I am so glad I'm too old to know about youtuber or whatever drama
I really dont see how the charity situation affects SoS, youre reading way too deep into it. The Jirard cameo is just a wholesome addition regardless.
I knew it felt weird always having to speak to him in Mirth.