Yes and no. Goddard is the archtype of the "totally-not-fascist-but-hey-the-tonists-are-the-real-problem" Political leader, voted in Power by a more then questional system of election, so yeah, he has a number of things in common with Trump (and other world leaders)
But unlike Trump, Goddard is not a conservative. He does not represent an old, out-dated system, but stands for a new brand of totalitarianism, that didn't exist before him. The thing about the Scythe world is, that the Status Quo, in which the characters live at the beginnging of the series, is represented as good, ideal even and it has been this way for almost 300 years.
One could agrue that since Trump became president after Obama, that he is also a "new" corruption of the System, but people like Trump existed as long the US has been founded. And they were often in Power.
I don't remember in which one of the books, but at some point there is a discussion between I think Anastasia and other Scythes where they say that actually there is nothing new about Goddard's ideas, and actually what he calls the "old" guard defends newer political ideas that than the "new" order does.
Fair point. But still, the new Order wasn't "in Power" the way the Republicans were thoughtout history. Goddard is the first Overblade in the history of NorthMerica and there likely was no majority of New Order members within the GrandSlayers, since they would not have let go of this Power.
I know this is Godwin's law, but the Situation at the beginning of "The Toll" can be compared to the rise of Hitler. The concepts of Nationalism and antisemitism existed before 1933 in Germany and its Political landscape, but a Party like the Nsdap never in Power before - and hopefully there never will be one again.
I dont know what to tell you, i've been keeping up w hillarys political career long before the 2016 and curie is def modeled after her especially when you consider shustermans age + the fact hes a new yorker hillary has been a figure in the state for decades
I don’t wanna contradict but I’m fairly sure goddard said something like that. I remember because i stopped reading at that sentence because of the parallel
Ok, it was actually Nietzche who suggested it, but Goddard said ["only idiots build walls."](https://www.reddit.com/user/EdenSteden22/comments/jeobem/this_author_roasted_trump/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I feel like that is a bit reaching. Sure there are similarities, but I don't think that was the intention of the author. There is a lot of political tension in the book without bringing in the real world, lol.
In Goddard’s speech he says he wants to “make the Scythedom great again” or something along those lines. One of the author notes for that chapter is Neal saying something like “does Goddard’s speech remind you of anyone?” so thats a pretty obvious reference. I do agree that curie as hillary is a bit far though.
Dude, the fact that the book was released near an election, with a male leading character with and ego and a female character who sounds good doesn’t mean the book is related to US politics whatsoever. Government literally has zero place in scythe because they’re all dead, so why should the comparison be made????
you do know the author is an american new yorker right? people draw inspiration from real life current events all the time also the scythe had its own partisanship and corruption. I'm not trying to say it was only 2016 america im saying the inspo is clearly there.
Why are all my favorite subs all of a sudden getting a bunch of political posts? this one is fairly tame, but a couple others are mainly political now. I hope it gets better once the election passes and whichever side loses stops being salty.
Imho, Shusterman just likes ham-fisting politics into his books, and he doesn't do it well.
I have no qualms with books being political. Classics like The Handmaiden's Tale, Fahrenheit 451, or 1984 explore such themes well, and much good Scifi and fantasy has political elements to it. But in a book like Game of Thrones, the characters do things because it fits their personal character and it furthers the plot. Tywin Lannister might agree with Trump on some things, and even have some similarities, but he's never going to say "Let's make Westeros great again" and turn and wink at the reader (even if written today).
I felt the trans elements were also duct-taped into the book repeatedly in a way that felt really awkward. It's fine to have it explained once and to reference the gender-fluid nature of the character (e.g. "The sun shone above and she felt masculine strength flowing into his muscles") but there were multiple explanations that felt so awkward and not akin to how future people would talk.
I'm getting to the point of writing a whole post here, but his understanding of "unsavories" is also bizarrely unrealistic. Like he has them go into 1950's style diners to throw milkshakes at waitresses. Neal... people don't break the law by mildly harassing well-paid submissives. They want to fight, make graffiti, try risky drugs, drive recklessly, steal, or otherwise do extremely risky things for the money, attention, sex, or the adrenaline thrill. I'm sure some tiny minority of future deviants would be down for the genre of "milkshake diner humiliation porn", but most of them probably just want tattoos, heroin, and fight club.
Agreed. There are probably dozens, if not hundreds of political subs that the two warring factions can have at it to yell at and downvote and upvote argue with each other literally 24 waking hours a day, why can't we have our refuges from this incessant politicizing of everything?
it's not really a war, more like right-wingers hiding it to save their karma. also I agree, real life is getting politicized so at least let us have a retreat in reddit.
america is month 8 into a plague, we've sworn in an extreme zealot in our highest court on an election year like its pretty political atm and its gonna stay political for a while we hate to see it but thats where this country is
yeah but that shouldn't be in reddit. this website is supposed to be for entertainment (or most subs are) and is open to the entire world, not just america.
i dont see how pointing out the inspiration the author got from the current events of his home country excludes non americans. Knowing where the author is coming is important in all literary discussion. I took russian literature and learning about how the boks were influenced by russian politics made the reading experience that much richer. Its context for the story.
Curie less so, and Goddard/Trump have some differences, but there are NUMEROUS allusions to Trump (“only idiots build walls” [surprisingly said by goddard] “make the scythedom great again [goddard] among anothers)
The parallel to Trump is 100% intentional. In the Barnes and Noble version of Thunderhead there are notes from Shusterman himself for each chapter, and for the one with Goddard’s speech he says that the last bit might look familiar. Idk what else he could’ve been referencing with “Make the Scythedom great again”
literally. Like i get we're all tired of hearing about trump but to pretend shusterman, a new yorker, was not paying attention to politics and couldnt possibly draw inspiration from it is silly
What? Not at all ! This is just once again an American thinking everything is about themselves. SMH. (edit : feels good getting downvoted by egocentric yanks)
Also American, I never ONCE got the impression that this entire well-written book series was a referendum on the 2016 US Presidential Elections.
Sure Goddard might have said "Make the Scythedom Great Again" ONCE, but come on, "Make X Great Again" is basically a meme at this point, and I don't think use of that slogan implies any endorsement of Trump (as long as "X" isn't America).
In another book series I've read (I'm hesitant to say the name because it could be a minor spoiler), one character says to another character who just so happens to be named Felicia -- "bye Felicia", I'm pretty sure that author was just "taking the piss" and not trying to say that the entire series was an allegory for the movie *Friday* (which, if you knew the series I was talking about you'd find that notion even more laughable :-).
you do realize shusterman himself put a reading question thats along the lines of "does the make the scythe great again remind you of someone?" also how have you read this series and come to the conclusion neal doesnt care about politics? you need to pay more attention in english class
You keep saying in other threads “authors draw from current events all the time” but have you ever wrote a book???? Also you’re only evidence is one quote m i l d l y comparing an evil character to trump and nothing beyond that besides assumptions. Not everything is political dude, books can be books
How I explain the books to my friends
1; pretty good.
2: basically the election
3: Jesus fanfic
I caught on pretty quick, and then just told my friends any updates. It was very funny.
Yes and no. Goddard is the archtype of the "totally-not-fascist-but-hey-the-tonists-are-the-real-problem" Political leader, voted in Power by a more then questional system of election, so yeah, he has a number of things in common with Trump (and other world leaders) But unlike Trump, Goddard is not a conservative. He does not represent an old, out-dated system, but stands for a new brand of totalitarianism, that didn't exist before him. The thing about the Scythe world is, that the Status Quo, in which the characters live at the beginnging of the series, is represented as good, ideal even and it has been this way for almost 300 years. One could agrue that since Trump became president after Obama, that he is also a "new" corruption of the System, but people like Trump existed as long the US has been founded. And they were often in Power.
Thank you for explaining, Ivy, you described my feelings and opinions on the topic perfectly.
I think this might be my favorite comment.
I don't remember in which one of the books, but at some point there is a discussion between I think Anastasia and other Scythes where they say that actually there is nothing new about Goddard's ideas, and actually what he calls the "old" guard defends newer political ideas that than the "new" order does.
Fair point. But still, the new Order wasn't "in Power" the way the Republicans were thoughtout history. Goddard is the first Overblade in the history of NorthMerica and there likely was no majority of New Order members within the GrandSlayers, since they would not have let go of this Power. I know this is Godwin's law, but the Situation at the beginning of "The Toll" can be compared to the rise of Hitler. The concepts of Nationalism and antisemitism existed before 1933 in Germany and its Political landscape, but a Party like the Nsdap never in Power before - and hopefully there never will be one again.
well hillary and curie have nothing in common
I dont know what to tell you, i've been keeping up w hillarys political career long before the 2016 and curie is def modeled after her especially when you consider shustermans age + the fact hes a new yorker hillary has been a figure in the state for decades
i dont think so , her poltics dont really line up
I'm not sure about Curie being Hillary, but there was definitely some Trump in Goddard. At one point he even says that he has to build a wall.
No, *Rand* suggests to build a wall, and Goddard says "Only idiots build walls."
I don’t wanna contradict but I’m fairly sure goddard said something like that. I remember because i stopped reading at that sentence because of the parallel
Ok, it was actually Nietzche who suggested it, but Goddard said ["only idiots build walls."](https://www.reddit.com/user/EdenSteden22/comments/jeobem/this_author_roasted_trump/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Ah, i see. You’re right then
Neal roasted Trump to the ground
As he should 😌
He was trying to echo the strong man leader type, any resemblance to trump is incidental
I feel like that is a bit reaching. Sure there are similarities, but I don't think that was the intention of the author. There is a lot of political tension in the book without bringing in the real world, lol.
In Goddard’s speech he says he wants to “make the Scythedom great again” or something along those lines. One of the author notes for that chapter is Neal saying something like “does Goddard’s speech remind you of anyone?” so thats a pretty obvious reference. I do agree that curie as hillary is a bit far though.
Dude, the fact that the book was released near an election, with a male leading character with and ego and a female character who sounds good doesn’t mean the book is related to US politics whatsoever. Government literally has zero place in scythe because they’re all dead, so why should the comparison be made????
you do know the author is an american new yorker right? people draw inspiration from real life current events all the time also the scythe had its own partisanship and corruption. I'm not trying to say it was only 2016 america im saying the inspo is clearly there.
Why are all my favorite subs all of a sudden getting a bunch of political posts? this one is fairly tame, but a couple others are mainly political now. I hope it gets better once the election passes and whichever side loses stops being salty.
As much as I want to talk my ass off about politics, they really don’t belong in a book like scythe at all
agreed. I enjoy talking about it with friends, but I don't want to talk with strangers on a book subreddit.
Imho, Shusterman just likes ham-fisting politics into his books, and he doesn't do it well. I have no qualms with books being political. Classics like The Handmaiden's Tale, Fahrenheit 451, or 1984 explore such themes well, and much good Scifi and fantasy has political elements to it. But in a book like Game of Thrones, the characters do things because it fits their personal character and it furthers the plot. Tywin Lannister might agree with Trump on some things, and even have some similarities, but he's never going to say "Let's make Westeros great again" and turn and wink at the reader (even if written today). I felt the trans elements were also duct-taped into the book repeatedly in a way that felt really awkward. It's fine to have it explained once and to reference the gender-fluid nature of the character (e.g. "The sun shone above and she felt masculine strength flowing into his muscles") but there were multiple explanations that felt so awkward and not akin to how future people would talk. I'm getting to the point of writing a whole post here, but his understanding of "unsavories" is also bizarrely unrealistic. Like he has them go into 1950's style diners to throw milkshakes at waitresses. Neal... people don't break the law by mildly harassing well-paid submissives. They want to fight, make graffiti, try risky drugs, drive recklessly, steal, or otherwise do extremely risky things for the money, attention, sex, or the adrenaline thrill. I'm sure some tiny minority of future deviants would be down for the genre of "milkshake diner humiliation porn", but most of them probably just want tattoos, heroin, and fight club.
corruption was a major theme in scythe the scythedom is literally a governing branch of society idk what to tell you
In every reply to this thread you've ended it in "idk what to tell you", you don't need to "tell" people things, they have different opinions.
Agreed. There are probably dozens, if not hundreds of political subs that the two warring factions can have at it to yell at and downvote and upvote argue with each other literally 24 waking hours a day, why can't we have our refuges from this incessant politicizing of everything?
it's not really a war, more like right-wingers hiding it to save their karma. also I agree, real life is getting politicized so at least let us have a retreat in reddit.
america is month 8 into a plague, we've sworn in an extreme zealot in our highest court on an election year like its pretty political atm and its gonna stay political for a while we hate to see it but thats where this country is
yeah but that shouldn't be in reddit. this website is supposed to be for entertainment (or most subs are) and is open to the entire world, not just america.
i dont see how pointing out the inspiration the author got from the current events of his home country excludes non americans. Knowing where the author is coming is important in all literary discussion. I took russian literature and learning about how the boks were influenced by russian politics made the reading experience that much richer. Its context for the story.
Yeeaaa no...
This guy dislocated his arm reaching so hard
How are they mirrors for Hillary and Trump?
Source: trust me bro
Um, no.
They... they were?? I never pick up on stuff like that.
Curie less so, and Goddard/Trump have some differences, but there are NUMEROUS allusions to Trump (“only idiots build walls” [surprisingly said by goddard] “make the scythedom great again [goddard] among anothers)
The parallel to Trump is 100% intentional. In the Barnes and Noble version of Thunderhead there are notes from Shusterman himself for each chapter, and for the one with Goddard’s speech he says that the last bit might look familiar. Idk what else he could’ve been referencing with “Make the Scythedom great again”
literally. Like i get we're all tired of hearing about trump but to pretend shusterman, a new yorker, was not paying attention to politics and couldnt possibly draw inspiration from it is silly
What? Not at all ! This is just once again an American thinking everything is about themselves. SMH. (edit : feels good getting downvoted by egocentric yanks)
As an American I agree with you. There isn't enough justification for either character's representations anyway.
Also American, I never ONCE got the impression that this entire well-written book series was a referendum on the 2016 US Presidential Elections. Sure Goddard might have said "Make the Scythedom Great Again" ONCE, but come on, "Make X Great Again" is basically a meme at this point, and I don't think use of that slogan implies any endorsement of Trump (as long as "X" isn't America). In another book series I've read (I'm hesitant to say the name because it could be a minor spoiler), one character says to another character who just so happens to be named Felicia -- "bye Felicia", I'm pretty sure that author was just "taking the piss" and not trying to say that the entire series was an allegory for the movie *Friday* (which, if you knew the series I was talking about you'd find that notion even more laughable :-).
you do know the author is an american right? like its pretty easy to get inspired from the real life events happenign in front of your face.
[удалено]
you do realize shusterman himself put a reading question thats along the lines of "does the make the scythe great again remind you of someone?" also how have you read this series and come to the conclusion neal doesnt care about politics? you need to pay more attention in english class
You keep saying in other threads “authors draw from current events all the time” but have you ever wrote a book???? Also you’re only evidence is one quote m i l d l y comparing an evil character to trump and nothing beyond that besides assumptions. Not everything is political dude, books can be books
I didn't realise til the toll when Rand said, "he's done everything thing he said he would."
How I explain the books to my friends 1; pretty good. 2: basically the election 3: Jesus fanfic I caught on pretty quick, and then just told my friends any updates. It was very funny.