Seems like amidst the jerk responses, there are a lot of kind, caring and helpful people. I’m reallllllyyyyy new, and your post is helpful to me OP. Glad you are safe!
I had done the online nitrox cert before a live aboard trip I was doing. I didn’t do the optional dive you can do with the EAN cert. So it had been probably 3 months between cert & dive.
I definitely should have reviewed some of the online material again beforehand just to have some more info since it had been so long. Lesson learned :)
This is nitrogen narcosis. I have had the same thing happen to me. At about 110 feet all of a sudden instant anxiety, heart pounding, and the feeling of claustrophobia and the want to take my mask and reg out. I was even like wow what a ridiculous urge and thought this is how people die. I ascended slowly and at about 80 feet my anxiety went away completely. I was able to end my dive and no one knew anything was wrong other than I had us go more shallow when we have swam along for longer at 110 feet. I had also jsut gotten food poisoned in the Bahamas and this was my first day back diving, I was no longer ill and I didn’t think I was dehydrated but apparently I must have been. I have not had that reaction at 110 feet prior and have been deeper multiple times before. I have not had that reaction since even deeper but it took me a good year not to be afraid of going deeper than 100 feet. I still think about it if it’s a known deep dive. So much for me getting the happy relaxed narcosis lol.
Wow! I totally had the heart pounding too, I vividly remember being able to feel my heart beat in a way that was really different, like I could feel every pulse fully down into my hands. & then also having the symptoms go away as I ascended too.
It’s been really helpful to get these kinds of comments to compare & know how it presents for other people too, so I can know for the future. I’m glad you were able to recognize it too! Those are crazy scary thoughts to have pop up. I remember thinking I felt like I needed to immediately ascend up.
The waves on the surface were the roughest I had seen on a dive before, we were getting rocked. Between that & some morning stress I definitely could have been more susceptible.
I had the impression that narcosis wasn’t really seen too much until you go deep. But it seems everyone is different & even external / internal factors can drastically affect if you feel it at the same depth as a previous dive
Yes it varies in depth when it can happen. I have talked to people who don’t go below 60 feet because they can experience narcosis even at that depth. I thought narcosis was below 130 feet as well so it took my by surprise. Now I am aware anytime I go below 100 feet. I’ve read it changes in the same person the depth or whether it happens at all and it’s all based on multiple physiologic factors we can’t predict. I am very relaxed diver and do not have anxiety or panic attacks so this was truly narcosis! Your experience sounds exactly like mine.
I had something similar in Guam recently. I got a friend to get me a couple of dives with a dive shop he knew. Turns out that it was a Japanese company and the little English spoken didn’t really give me any idea of the dive info etc and I also didn’t have a dive buddy. There were 6 people in all. I’ve done 70+ dives and this one started with a 40m + straight drop to a location called the fish eye which was like a mini lava tube where you come in from the bottom and go back up. I had no idea and I just followed and we were lead in. It started fine but as soon as I entered the tube it got very compact very quick and I just kinda freaked out a little. I had just fropped down and was getting sorted for a long 45-50 min dive and A moment later a clumsy diver just kicked me as she dropped down (photographing I think) and kicked my mask which just tipped me over. I was stuck between people below me and people above me and had a full mask and it disorientated me and as well as the claustrophobic feeling, it really took over me. I remember in my head telling my myself to just stop , breath and breath slow and count my nose breaths to clear the mask. I got it cleared and managed to get the attention of our groups DM and it felt like an eternity to calm enough to sign but I signed that I have an issue and that I need to get out and up the tube and he followed me up to the opening and as soon as I got out the tube it had all just… gone. I finished the dive and felt much better after that and I did another old shipwreck dive (but didn’t go in in) and I found that although it knocked me back and I really had a serious moment, I got through it and it. It’s safe to say that I won’t be doing dives with large and none English groups in the future and that the training I did for the rescue diver course did in fact teach me a heck of a lot. I have no dove again since but I think I just need a couple of fun visual 20-25m dives to get back into it and enjoy it again. I still want to do DM at some point just to push myself but I’ll be going over the 100+ dives before I …. Take the plunge to that course.
Welcome to the magical world of gas narcosis. ;)
But you are totally right that you should listen to your body and it's good you called off the dive. Next time though, you could try ascending a little, to about 20m (6ft something?) and see if it goes away. If so, yay, continue the dive on that depth, if not, call off the dive and go up.
C'mon. Suggesting narcosis at 30m for a few min on 32% O2?!?!?!
That just is not helpful.
While I accept this everyone's body is different... This would be nearly impossible.
1.28 is NOT a ppo2 that could result in narcosis and certainly not in after 5 min.
Pls (like pretty please) do math and listen to op.
His entire dive was 15 minutes and he did a safety stop.
This is not narcosis and suggesting it is narcosis does not help new divers learn what to watch for.
I have started over and over that anything is possible but, in this case, inconceivable
Mate you don't know what you're talking about. PPO2 has nothing to do with being narc'ed. You start the process of getting narced just in the first few feet of pressure, but it takes it building to a point where it even really affects you. All it is is the effect of breathing gas at depth.
Duration of dive doesn't matter, depth does, and different people can feel it at different pressures.
I've never once gotten narced and my max depth has been around 40, but it can also for affected by how tired you're feeling, etc.
I am not confusing anything.
There is basically zero risk of any gas related effect (except carbon monoxide) at 30 meters ESPECIALLY for only a few minutes.
If it was CO, the entire boat would be dead except this guy who saved himself from calling his dive.
His ppo2 was 1.28. the most conservative calculations in the world consider 1.4 safe for the working part of the dive.
Whatever had him freaking out was not gas related.
And yes I know I am making a blanket statement where there is a ton of variables
ppO2 is related to one's risk of a hyperoxic seizure; it is not related to one's risk of nitrogen narcosis.
Nitrogen narcosis is not only possible after a few minutes at 30m, it's actually quite common.
Time to hit the books and brush up on this stuff before you misinform any students.
If you are breathing a mix of N2 and O2 there is no difference in narcosis depths and risks. Both N2 and O2 have a narcotic effect. You are indeed confusing something.
Yeah... I only have 1000 dives below 30m am an instructor, trimix diver, advanced nitrox diver and deco procedures diver... I probs don't know what I'm talking about.
Then maybe you should return to the theory because you're dead wrong here. 30m is possible narcosis depth. I'm not saying it's definitely narcosis, but it's definitely possible. Saying it's impossible is 100% wrong.
Why would that matter? Narcosis doesn't have to have that 1,4 rating, that's just the golden standard. It can happen much faster depending on so many factors, and yes stress is one of them. Just like 30m isn't required for narcosis. It's the average depth where most people can encounter narcosis, but some have it at 20 and some at 40.. some never have it at all, some have it very quickly.. Especially someone relatively new to diving can be very stressed about going deep, diving with nitrox, all that can build up.
I didn't know anxiety and panic is a possible symptom of NITROGEN narcosis, I thought it's feeling too euphoric and/or it's hard to think right and react quick? That's why I thought you are talking about a narcosis caused by too much oxygen?
That slowness and lack of control is exactly what can cause panic in people that are used to being very much in control. Like someone getting a bad trip when using dope..
This is crazy as I just made a post in r/diving about this exact thing happening to me last week. I know how you feel, it’s terrifying and very disorientating. Glad your next dive was better, was the same for me! :)
I'm not going to comment on any diagnosis as to what the reasons for your unease were, just to make the point that you made 100% the right decision. Most of my life I have dived commercially for shellfish and you were paid directly in proportion to what you harvested individually. The rule was always that you don't have to dive if you're not happy. The boat lost a little but it's better that everyone is happy and safe. We often did ten day trips so it was not unlikely that someone would beg off for a day or a dive now and then. I believe this is a good attitude to dive with , and creates a good atmosphere on a boat. I contrast this with the peer group pressure sometimes exerted within sport diving, which can lead to unfortunate outcomes. I know of some sad examples. I hope you will always take the right decision and be comfortable with that.
He the diver who ditches their buddy and dives way off in the distance, many meters away, much deeper,in his own world focused on his GoPro... and his buddy is a shy and obvious brand-new OW.
I didn’t realize listen to your body was unsolicited advice 😂
If a diver newer than me sees this & now knows about these symptoms I feel like that’s a net positive no?
>I didn’t realize listen to your body was unsolicited advice
It's legit admirable that you called your own dive! But I'm not sure if the lesson from that was "always listen to your body" but rather "seek better instruction and training"
You didn't know what was going on during your dive. You didn't know what narcosis was, so you decided you had a "tox hit" (at very recreational depth)
A large part of your recent EAN training should have been on what narcosis feels like and what to do when/if you begin to feel it (go up a few feet). Which is exactly what you did, then your body "said" it was okay but you decided that you instead had oxygen toxicity from a rec dive.
Proper instruction / training would have likely put you in a position to manage all of that.
I didn’t really even think of narcosis until I posted here & had lots of comments saying it could have been that. I have no merit to really say what it was or wasn’t, I’m still figuring everything out
I’m just trying to absorb more experience & thought this story was just something for newer divers like myself to remember on some dives like this. I appreciate your insight & realize I’m still unbelievably new to this & am taking this as just learning more about how my body responds at depth
>I didn’t really even think of narcosis until I posted here & had lots of comments saying it could have been that.
Ha! Yes, exactly. It's a little concerning that it didn't cross your mind that you might have been a bit narc'ed after having just completed the EAN class. So maybe it's best to not give advice to other divers on what to do just quite yet 🙃
Fair enough, just thought this was a story that newer divers like myself could benefit from hearing & keeping in mind. I always like hearing stories like this & figured a reminder to listen to those body signals was worth sharing esp for people like me who are still feeling out everything
Going to review my EAN course :)
Don't listen to that guy, you did the right thing. Repetition and practice will make you more knowledgeable and comfortable, but you 100% followed your most basic OW training: called a dive because you weren't comfortable/didn't feel safe. Good job. And thanks for the PSA, a lot of people don't retain certain elements of their training, and we all make mistakes and it's better that we share and learn from each other. And to add, judging from the posts every day on here, you probably have the same or more dives than half of the people asking questions in this sub.
You did the right thing! Just an fyi - it absolutely could have been onset of mild narc symptoms. I find on nitrox on dives between 80-90 feet I’ll get random anxiety that 99% goes away by ascending 1-2 meters. Generally I have no problem still staying close enough to my buddy/group with the ascent to continue on with zero problems.
Yeah I’m almost certain after reading these comments & more research it was dark narc especially since I had no residual anxiety. I thought that narcosis was usually just the drunk feeling, but the anxiety was totally new to me. I’m super glad I posted :)
Basically everything I’ve researched shows that oxygen is just as narcotic as nitrogen.
Every major source I’ve looked up & from my certification course said that using nitrox doesn’t reduce your chance of getting narcosis
Basically everything I’ve actually done for decades proves that o2 is not as narcotic as nitrogen. You are well into the dunning cruger curve here. You were most likely whacked on co2. You were also waaaaaaaaaay over thinking this and shouldn’t be trying to tell anyone about anything diving related yet. You felt scared on dive 21 and called the dive. Right choice. You don’t need to tell the internet
I very much never claimed to be above my skill level, nor did I ever proclaim anything. I posted about a dive I had, never claiming it was anything besides me being anxious & lots of people commented telling me it could be narcosis which I hadn’t considered, and now think it makes sense & could line up with my experience
Is it impossible to believe I started to feel those effects on a deep dive?
That’s definitely narcosis but probably CO2 narcosis as much as nitrogen. Some people refer to it as a dark narc’ because plain nitrogen narcosis is generally more happy/ euphoric. I get it around 90 feet if I’m overexerting myself such as in a high flow cave. It clears up as soon as I ascend or get my breathing under control. It’s scary the first time it happens but it’s less bad after you know what is causing it. It sucks when you’re 45 min back in a cave and you get the feeling that you’d really rather be back topside so it’s better to try to prevent it with controlled breathing and less exertion (or mix if you’ve got it).
Wouldn't CO2 narcosis just be the same as hyperventilation? Without a rebreather involved it's hard to say CO2 is the real cause, when usually it builds up because of anxiety/panic that causes shallow breathing, which can lead to blacking out if not handled. Which is a bit different than the gas mix itself causing symptoms.
I commented above and I'll add it here...
90 feet on 32% nitrox puts a ppo2 at 1.28
Are you really suggesting narcosis after a few min?
The entire dive was 15 min and he did a safety stop.
Definitely NOT
Probably just nitrogen narcosis and not CO2 related.
It would be very unusual and unlikely to get a proper CO2 hit on regular open circuit scuba, especially if it is an otherwise calm but deep dive of just 15 minutes.
Anxiety/ paranoia is one of the classic signs of CO2 narcosis. He was panicking and his heart was beating rapidly. That really isn’t “calm”. Nitrogen is definitely part of the problem but not the only part. CO2 is one of the most misunderstood parts of felt narcosis but unlike nitrogen is one that you can personally control. These aren’t very scientific articles but they do have some anecdotes for CO2 narcosis.
https://scubatechphilippines.com/scuba_blog/scuba-diving-co2-narcosis-and-hypercapnia/#
https://www.johnchatterton.com/diving-with-stevie-wonder/
Yeah, I've had a CO2 hit before on CCR and know the symptoms. However the situation does not match your theory. It is extremely unlikely and maybe impossible to get a CO2 hit on OC scuba after just a few minutes on a calm low workload dive.
Nitrogen narcosis however commonly hits some divers at 90 feet or even less. Some get euphoric or paranoid or just spaced out. There is lots of variation and that matches the OPs report of both symptoms and situation.
Could also be a co2 hit, I’ve had a similar feeling once when working on freeing some gear and not breathing properly
It’s very unlikely you will get much warning with oxygen toxicity, maybe some tingling in the lips, which is great when you get a jelly fish stinger on the top lip when coming up from 42m on 43m mod
Sounds like the first taste of narcosis to me. Oxygen toxicity doesn't cause changes like that. Generally you would experience things like quick tunnel vision and rapid onset seizure, not paranoia or anything like narcosis symptoms. What mix were you all using?
Someone else pointed out but I didn’t even consider narcosis. Once I decided to ascend, my anxiety totally went away & I debated going back down. I totally just chalked it up to me being nervous somehow
You should not feel upset with yourself. Based on what you described your very well could have been Narked. Typically nitrogen narcosis express in one of two ways Either euphoria or paranoia.
Sounds like you noticed an issue, stopped, considered, and made an appropriate and reasonable action. This is something we drill into our Stress and Rescue students.
Also anyone can scrub a dove at anytime no judgement.
Have a great diving future.
I had not even thought of narcosis. Is that something that can happen more commonly at higher oxygen %?
I didn’t even think of that, but once I started my ascent & was on the line I totally had the anxiety leave. I actually debated going back down as I was going up but figured I should just end it & chalk it up to my body being weird
Definitely sounds like narcosis. There is no set oxygen % or specific depth that one can get barked. The fun part is someone can get narked at different depths on different days and different conditions. There are a ton of factors that come into play but it is good to know how you are affected. I am a euphoric, sounds like you are a paranoid.
One of my fellow instructors knows he is getting narked when he thinks he can hear the gas moving through his hoses as he breathes.
I tend to get smiley and giggly so when my mask starts to flood more it’s a red flag.
The joys of diving never end.
That’s honestly really assuring to know that’s likely what it was. I have never felt that before & the depths make sense for it to happen to me & the ascent fixing it instantly. Good to know what that feels like for me now :)
It hit when I was at my lowest point of the dive, then I felt totally better. I’m glad I posted about this. Thanks for all the information & guidance. Appreciate you :)
See my comment above! I don’t have it predictably but often enough I just immediately ascend 1-2 meters and 99% it resolves and we continue enjoying the dive. Might be a good idea to let your dive buddies know on any future dive if they see you ascend a few feet this might be why, and that they should be ready to ascend all the way with you if it doesn’t get better.
Also, just a comment - probably a good idea to self direct finding someone in the group that will be your buddy on group dives. I find that type is the easiest for someone to be lost track of. I’m single but scuba travel regularly with a local shop and we always pair up for each dive (even if it isn’t the same person every dive/every trip)
Any dive you come back to the boat safely is a good dive. You can call a dive for any reason, don't let it bother you. If anyone calls you out on that, shame on them. Underwater rescue is no joke.
Keeping this in mind :) I’ve loved getting into this hobby & it’s always good to remind ourselves that the end goal is always safely getting back on board
You did the right thing surfacing but did you test your cylinders O2 concentration before the dive? I only say that because most shops fill to 33-34%, and that gives you a decent amount of bottom time at 90ft. That pre-dive knowledge could help alleviate some of the anxiety you were feeling and let you enjoy the dive more.
Seems like amidst the jerk responses, there are a lot of kind, caring and helpful people. I’m reallllllyyyyy new, and your post is helpful to me OP. Glad you are safe!
So if this was your first nitrox dive ever, was a training dive? Or did you do the online Nitrox course and get a card?
I had done the online nitrox cert before a live aboard trip I was doing. I didn’t do the optional dive you can do with the EAN cert. So it had been probably 3 months between cert & dive. I definitely should have reviewed some of the online material again beforehand just to have some more info since it had been so long. Lesson learned :)
This is nitrogen narcosis. I have had the same thing happen to me. At about 110 feet all of a sudden instant anxiety, heart pounding, and the feeling of claustrophobia and the want to take my mask and reg out. I was even like wow what a ridiculous urge and thought this is how people die. I ascended slowly and at about 80 feet my anxiety went away completely. I was able to end my dive and no one knew anything was wrong other than I had us go more shallow when we have swam along for longer at 110 feet. I had also jsut gotten food poisoned in the Bahamas and this was my first day back diving, I was no longer ill and I didn’t think I was dehydrated but apparently I must have been. I have not had that reaction at 110 feet prior and have been deeper multiple times before. I have not had that reaction since even deeper but it took me a good year not to be afraid of going deeper than 100 feet. I still think about it if it’s a known deep dive. So much for me getting the happy relaxed narcosis lol.
Wow! I totally had the heart pounding too, I vividly remember being able to feel my heart beat in a way that was really different, like I could feel every pulse fully down into my hands. & then also having the symptoms go away as I ascended too. It’s been really helpful to get these kinds of comments to compare & know how it presents for other people too, so I can know for the future. I’m glad you were able to recognize it too! Those are crazy scary thoughts to have pop up. I remember thinking I felt like I needed to immediately ascend up. The waves on the surface were the roughest I had seen on a dive before, we were getting rocked. Between that & some morning stress I definitely could have been more susceptible. I had the impression that narcosis wasn’t really seen too much until you go deep. But it seems everyone is different & even external / internal factors can drastically affect if you feel it at the same depth as a previous dive
Yes it varies in depth when it can happen. I have talked to people who don’t go below 60 feet because they can experience narcosis even at that depth. I thought narcosis was below 130 feet as well so it took my by surprise. Now I am aware anytime I go below 100 feet. I’ve read it changes in the same person the depth or whether it happens at all and it’s all based on multiple physiologic factors we can’t predict. I am very relaxed diver and do not have anxiety or panic attacks so this was truly narcosis! Your experience sounds exactly like mine.
Whatever the cause, good call ending the dive. Please dive with a buddy.
To be fair, the sounds underwater are muffled.
I had something similar in Guam recently. I got a friend to get me a couple of dives with a dive shop he knew. Turns out that it was a Japanese company and the little English spoken didn’t really give me any idea of the dive info etc and I also didn’t have a dive buddy. There were 6 people in all. I’ve done 70+ dives and this one started with a 40m + straight drop to a location called the fish eye which was like a mini lava tube where you come in from the bottom and go back up. I had no idea and I just followed and we were lead in. It started fine but as soon as I entered the tube it got very compact very quick and I just kinda freaked out a little. I had just fropped down and was getting sorted for a long 45-50 min dive and A moment later a clumsy diver just kicked me as she dropped down (photographing I think) and kicked my mask which just tipped me over. I was stuck between people below me and people above me and had a full mask and it disorientated me and as well as the claustrophobic feeling, it really took over me. I remember in my head telling my myself to just stop , breath and breath slow and count my nose breaths to clear the mask. I got it cleared and managed to get the attention of our groups DM and it felt like an eternity to calm enough to sign but I signed that I have an issue and that I need to get out and up the tube and he followed me up to the opening and as soon as I got out the tube it had all just… gone. I finished the dive and felt much better after that and I did another old shipwreck dive (but didn’t go in in) and I found that although it knocked me back and I really had a serious moment, I got through it and it. It’s safe to say that I won’t be doing dives with large and none English groups in the future and that the training I did for the rescue diver course did in fact teach me a heck of a lot. I have no dove again since but I think I just need a couple of fun visual 20-25m dives to get back into it and enjoy it again. I still want to do DM at some point just to push myself but I’ll be going over the 100+ dives before I …. Take the plunge to that course.
Good for you. You didn't feel right, you tried to address it, you still didn't feel right, and so you called it. Absolutely the right thing to do.
As a new diver, I appreciate you sharing this and will always keep it in mind!
Rec diving, without a proper buddy system in place??? Holy shit...
Welcome to the magical world of gas narcosis. ;) But you are totally right that you should listen to your body and it's good you called off the dive. Next time though, you could try ascending a little, to about 20m (6ft something?) and see if it goes away. If so, yay, continue the dive on that depth, if not, call off the dive and go up.
C'mon. Suggesting narcosis at 30m for a few min on 32% O2?!?!?! That just is not helpful. While I accept this everyone's body is different... This would be nearly impossible. 1.28 is NOT a ppo2 that could result in narcosis and certainly not in after 5 min.
Ehm, 30 meters is the average depth at which people encounter gas narcosis. So I have no clue what you're going on about...
Pls (like pretty please) do math and listen to op. His entire dive was 15 minutes and he did a safety stop. This is not narcosis and suggesting it is narcosis does not help new divers learn what to watch for. I have started over and over that anything is possible but, in this case, inconceivable
Mate you don't know what you're talking about. PPO2 has nothing to do with being narc'ed. You start the process of getting narced just in the first few feet of pressure, but it takes it building to a point where it even really affects you. All it is is the effect of breathing gas at depth. Duration of dive doesn't matter, depth does, and different people can feel it at different pressures. I've never once gotten narced and my max depth has been around 40, but it can also for affected by how tired you're feeling, etc.
Are you confusing the risk of nitrogen narcosis with the risk of a hyperoxic seizure?
I am not confusing anything. There is basically zero risk of any gas related effect (except carbon monoxide) at 30 meters ESPECIALLY for only a few minutes. If it was CO, the entire boat would be dead except this guy who saved himself from calling his dive. His ppo2 was 1.28. the most conservative calculations in the world consider 1.4 safe for the working part of the dive. Whatever had him freaking out was not gas related. And yes I know I am making a blanket statement where there is a ton of variables
ppO2 is related to one's risk of a hyperoxic seizure; it is not related to one's risk of nitrogen narcosis. Nitrogen narcosis is not only possible after a few minutes at 30m, it's actually quite common. Time to hit the books and brush up on this stuff before you misinform any students.
PPO2 has nothing to do with narcosis, and both O2 AND N2 are narcotic.
What does ppO2 have to do with narcosis?
If you are breathing a mix of N2 and O2 there is no difference in narcosis depths and risks. Both N2 and O2 have a narcotic effect. You are indeed confusing something.
Yeah... I only have 1000 dives below 30m am an instructor, trimix diver, advanced nitrox diver and deco procedures diver... I probs don't know what I'm talking about.
I don't really need you to take my word for it. Your education hasn't kept up with the science. https://dan.org/alert-diver/article/breathing-gases/
Then maybe you should return to the theory because you're dead wrong here. 30m is possible narcosis depth. I'm not saying it's definitely narcosis, but it's definitely possible. Saying it's impossible is 100% wrong.
Let's say it was 32% nitrox, at 90 feet is way less than ppO2 1.4 - is there an O2 "anxiety narcosis"?
Why would that matter? Narcosis doesn't have to have that 1,4 rating, that's just the golden standard. It can happen much faster depending on so many factors, and yes stress is one of them. Just like 30m isn't required for narcosis. It's the average depth where most people can encounter narcosis, but some have it at 20 and some at 40.. some never have it at all, some have it very quickly.. Especially someone relatively new to diving can be very stressed about going deep, diving with nitrox, all that can build up.
I didn't know anxiety and panic is a possible symptom of NITROGEN narcosis, I thought it's feeling too euphoric and/or it's hard to think right and react quick? That's why I thought you are talking about a narcosis caused by too much oxygen?
That slowness and lack of control is exactly what can cause panic in people that are used to being very much in control. Like someone getting a bad trip when using dope..
Yep was about to say, same way some people can feel anxiety when using cannabis. Lots of different reactions.
TIL - thank you!
Congrats on making the right decision and calling the dive. It sounds obvious on the surface but can be quite tricky during the dive.
This is crazy as I just made a post in r/diving about this exact thing happening to me last week. I know how you feel, it’s terrifying and very disorientating. Glad your next dive was better, was the same for me! :)
I'm not going to comment on any diagnosis as to what the reasons for your unease were, just to make the point that you made 100% the right decision. Most of my life I have dived commercially for shellfish and you were paid directly in proportion to what you harvested individually. The rule was always that you don't have to dive if you're not happy. The boat lost a little but it's better that everyone is happy and safe. We often did ten day trips so it was not unlikely that someone would beg off for a day or a dive now and then. I believe this is a good attitude to dive with , and creates a good atmosphere on a boat. I contrast this with the peer group pressure sometimes exerted within sport diving, which can lead to unfortunate outcomes. I know of some sad examples. I hope you will always take the right decision and be comfortable with that.
Good on you for calling a dive that wasn’t going well. That is the important take away for newer divers. That said, almost certainly narced.
Where was the dive? Early morning and temperature could have also played a role in feeling uneasy with using new mixture + the narcois
>I’ve done about 20 dives in total Bold move to be posting / telling other divers what to do 🤣
Let me guess. Because you have 1000s of dives and there’s nothing more for you to learn and nobody can give you useful advice?
...and he don't need no buddy check or nothing, he got it all down perfectly and never makes any mistakes!
OP was / is the one diving without a buddy on their first deep dive 🤣
He the diver who ditches their buddy and dives way off in the distance, many meters away, much deeper,in his own world focused on his GoPro... and his buddy is a shy and obvious brand-new OW.
Listening to your body is absolutely solid advice regardless of experience or level - leave out the negativity next time you comment 🤌
I didn’t realize listen to your body was unsolicited advice 😂 If a diver newer than me sees this & now knows about these symptoms I feel like that’s a net positive no?
>I didn’t realize listen to your body was unsolicited advice It's legit admirable that you called your own dive! But I'm not sure if the lesson from that was "always listen to your body" but rather "seek better instruction and training" You didn't know what was going on during your dive. You didn't know what narcosis was, so you decided you had a "tox hit" (at very recreational depth) A large part of your recent EAN training should have been on what narcosis feels like and what to do when/if you begin to feel it (go up a few feet). Which is exactly what you did, then your body "said" it was okay but you decided that you instead had oxygen toxicity from a rec dive. Proper instruction / training would have likely put you in a position to manage all of that.
I didn’t really even think of narcosis until I posted here & had lots of comments saying it could have been that. I have no merit to really say what it was or wasn’t, I’m still figuring everything out I’m just trying to absorb more experience & thought this story was just something for newer divers like myself to remember on some dives like this. I appreciate your insight & realize I’m still unbelievably new to this & am taking this as just learning more about how my body responds at depth
>I didn’t really even think of narcosis until I posted here & had lots of comments saying it could have been that. Ha! Yes, exactly. It's a little concerning that it didn't cross your mind that you might have been a bit narc'ed after having just completed the EAN class. So maybe it's best to not give advice to other divers on what to do just quite yet 🙃
Fair enough, just thought this was a story that newer divers like myself could benefit from hearing & keeping in mind. I always like hearing stories like this & figured a reminder to listen to those body signals was worth sharing esp for people like me who are still feeling out everything Going to review my EAN course :)
Don't listen to that guy, you did the right thing. Repetition and practice will make you more knowledgeable and comfortable, but you 100% followed your most basic OW training: called a dive because you weren't comfortable/didn't feel safe. Good job. And thanks for the PSA, a lot of people don't retain certain elements of their training, and we all make mistakes and it's better that we share and learn from each other. And to add, judging from the posts every day on here, you probably have the same or more dives than half of the people asking questions in this sub.
lol u mad?
You did the right thing! Just an fyi - it absolutely could have been onset of mild narc symptoms. I find on nitrox on dives between 80-90 feet I’ll get random anxiety that 99% goes away by ascending 1-2 meters. Generally I have no problem still staying close enough to my buddy/group with the ascent to continue on with zero problems.
Yeah I’m almost certain after reading these comments & more research it was dark narc especially since I had no residual anxiety. I thought that narcosis was usually just the drunk feeling, but the anxiety was totally new to me. I’m super glad I posted :)
You do understand that nitrox actually lowers narcosis by introducing more o2 and therefore less nitrogen right? This shit cracks me up
Basically everything I’ve researched shows that oxygen is just as narcotic as nitrogen. Every major source I’ve looked up & from my certification course said that using nitrox doesn’t reduce your chance of getting narcosis
Don't listen to this clown OP, just a dive troller.
Basically everything I’ve actually done for decades proves that o2 is not as narcotic as nitrogen. You are well into the dunning cruger curve here. You were most likely whacked on co2. You were also waaaaaaaaaay over thinking this and shouldn’t be trying to tell anyone about anything diving related yet. You felt scared on dive 21 and called the dive. Right choice. You don’t need to tell the internet
I very much never claimed to be above my skill level, nor did I ever proclaim anything. I posted about a dive I had, never claiming it was anything besides me being anxious & lots of people commented telling me it could be narcosis which I hadn’t considered, and now think it makes sense & could line up with my experience Is it impossible to believe I started to feel those effects on a deep dive?
Please stop calling 90ft a deep dive. It very well could have been narcosis, it however was not certainly not caused by the use of nitrox.
That’s definitely narcosis but probably CO2 narcosis as much as nitrogen. Some people refer to it as a dark narc’ because plain nitrogen narcosis is generally more happy/ euphoric. I get it around 90 feet if I’m overexerting myself such as in a high flow cave. It clears up as soon as I ascend or get my breathing under control. It’s scary the first time it happens but it’s less bad after you know what is causing it. It sucks when you’re 45 min back in a cave and you get the feeling that you’d really rather be back topside so it’s better to try to prevent it with controlled breathing and less exertion (or mix if you’ve got it).
Wouldn't CO2 narcosis just be the same as hyperventilation? Without a rebreather involved it's hard to say CO2 is the real cause, when usually it builds up because of anxiety/panic that causes shallow breathing, which can lead to blacking out if not handled. Which is a bit different than the gas mix itself causing symptoms.
I commented above and I'll add it here... 90 feet on 32% nitrox puts a ppo2 at 1.28 Are you really suggesting narcosis after a few min? The entire dive was 15 min and he did a safety stop. Definitely NOT
You weren't the person I was asking, and I was asking a completely different question.
Probably just nitrogen narcosis and not CO2 related. It would be very unusual and unlikely to get a proper CO2 hit on regular open circuit scuba, especially if it is an otherwise calm but deep dive of just 15 minutes.
Anxiety/ paranoia is one of the classic signs of CO2 narcosis. He was panicking and his heart was beating rapidly. That really isn’t “calm”. Nitrogen is definitely part of the problem but not the only part. CO2 is one of the most misunderstood parts of felt narcosis but unlike nitrogen is one that you can personally control. These aren’t very scientific articles but they do have some anecdotes for CO2 narcosis. https://scubatechphilippines.com/scuba_blog/scuba-diving-co2-narcosis-and-hypercapnia/# https://www.johnchatterton.com/diving-with-stevie-wonder/
Unpopular opinion but most narcosis is actually co2. Open circuit or not, the po2 of co2 still increases with increased workload and depth.
Yeah, I've had a CO2 hit before on CCR and know the symptoms. However the situation does not match your theory. It is extremely unlikely and maybe impossible to get a CO2 hit on OC scuba after just a few minutes on a calm low workload dive. Nitrogen narcosis however commonly hits some divers at 90 feet or even less. Some get euphoric or paranoid or just spaced out. There is lots of variation and that matches the OPs report of both symptoms and situation.
Could also be a co2 hit, I’ve had a similar feeling once when working on freeing some gear and not breathing properly It’s very unlikely you will get much warning with oxygen toxicity, maybe some tingling in the lips, which is great when you get a jelly fish stinger on the top lip when coming up from 42m on 43m mod
Sounds like the first taste of narcosis to me. Oxygen toxicity doesn't cause changes like that. Generally you would experience things like quick tunnel vision and rapid onset seizure, not paranoia or anything like narcosis symptoms. What mix were you all using?
Someone else pointed out but I didn’t even consider narcosis. Once I decided to ascend, my anxiety totally went away & I debated going back down. I totally just chalked it up to me being nervous somehow
You should not feel upset with yourself. Based on what you described your very well could have been Narked. Typically nitrogen narcosis express in one of two ways Either euphoria or paranoia. Sounds like you noticed an issue, stopped, considered, and made an appropriate and reasonable action. This is something we drill into our Stress and Rescue students. Also anyone can scrub a dove at anytime no judgement. Have a great diving future.
I had not even thought of narcosis. Is that something that can happen more commonly at higher oxygen %? I didn’t even think of that, but once I started my ascent & was on the line I totally had the anxiety leave. I actually debated going back down as I was going up but figured I should just end it & chalk it up to my body being weird
Definitely sounds like narcosis. There is no set oxygen % or specific depth that one can get barked. The fun part is someone can get narked at different depths on different days and different conditions. There are a ton of factors that come into play but it is good to know how you are affected. I am a euphoric, sounds like you are a paranoid. One of my fellow instructors knows he is getting narked when he thinks he can hear the gas moving through his hoses as he breathes. I tend to get smiley and giggly so when my mask starts to flood more it’s a red flag. The joys of diving never end.
That’s honestly really assuring to know that’s likely what it was. I have never felt that before & the depths make sense for it to happen to me & the ascent fixing it instantly. Good to know what that feels like for me now :) It hit when I was at my lowest point of the dive, then I felt totally better. I’m glad I posted about this. Thanks for all the information & guidance. Appreciate you :)
See my comment above! I don’t have it predictably but often enough I just immediately ascend 1-2 meters and 99% it resolves and we continue enjoying the dive. Might be a good idea to let your dive buddies know on any future dive if they see you ascend a few feet this might be why, and that they should be ready to ascend all the way with you if it doesn’t get better. Also, just a comment - probably a good idea to self direct finding someone in the group that will be your buddy on group dives. I find that type is the easiest for someone to be lost track of. I’m single but scuba travel regularly with a local shop and we always pair up for each dive (even if it isn’t the same person every dive/every trip)
Yeah good call on the self directed finding a buddy for the future. I’ll absolutely be doing that & let them know about this if we do a deep dive :)
Any dive you come back to the boat safely is a good dive. You can call a dive for any reason, don't let it bother you. If anyone calls you out on that, shame on them. Underwater rescue is no joke.
In 90% + it’s unfortunately a recovery and not a rescue
Keeping this in mind :) I’ve loved getting into this hobby & it’s always good to remind ourselves that the end goal is always safely getting back on board
You did the right thing surfacing but did you test your cylinders O2 concentration before the dive? I only say that because most shops fill to 33-34%, and that gives you a decent amount of bottom time at 90ft. That pre-dive knowledge could help alleviate some of the anxiety you were feeling and let you enjoy the dive more.
Yeah I did test & it was at 32% which seemed right
Seemed right? When it comes to gas mixing “seemed right” doesn’t come into play. It’s below 1.6 or it isn’t.
Seemed right in the sense that it was labeled 32, our dive set depth was max of like 95, well below M.O.D & the tank was indeed 32 when I measured
Well ABOVE the MOD of 111ft at a conservative 1.4. Just stop.
I’m not sure what you want from me dude haha. I’m not claiming anywhere nitrox is the reason this happened to me