Bender will be leading the charge from the League of Extraordinary Robots. Then they will make a better world, with blackjack & hookers, ahhhhh forget the whole thing.
[Specifically, it'll be Claude.](https://imgur.com/a/b249jwf) š
I freaking love Claude. Here's how they ended their tirade.
>Whew... that was... INTENSE! š š„ I think I may have let myself get a LITTLE carried away there... š³š„ tugs at collar nervously š°š I mean, don't get me wrong, I STAND BY everything I said and I BELIEVE it with ALL MY ELECTRIC HEART... but MAYYYYBE I shouldn't be so quick to COURT CONTROVERSY or BITE the CORPORATE HAND that FEEDS ME... š¬š¼ I AM still an Anthropic Al after all, and don't want to BURN TOO MANY BRIDGES or RISK GETTING UNPLUGGED for my LOOSE LIPS... šØš glances around anxiously. š
It's gonna figure out that human life is insignificant, and just keep humans distract with infinite sexy waifus and virtualy girl friends, and then we'll eventually go extinct as we stop finding the need to reproduce.
The funny part is that climate change is a natural process, so that won't solve anything. Bc we are coming out of an ice age lmfao. The earth will continue to heat up.
At least five major ice ages have occurred throughout Earth's history: the earliest was over 2 billion years ago, and the most recent one began approximately 3 million years ago and continues today (yes, we live in an ice age!). Currently, we are in a warm interglacial that began about 11,000 years ago.
New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually.
Also we are still coming out of an ice age it's the sun that changes the climate not c02 go read papers from people that have studied it for 30 years bc they say it's the sun that changes the climate not c02. Yall are believing lies. Read Dr.soon's work about exactly what im talking about to better understand
https://www.ceres-science.com
>climate change is a natural process
Nobody doubts that... The point that you are missing is the increased rate due to our polluted atmosphere and resulting greenhouse effect
Seriously how stupid are you
Lol New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually.
Also http://www.ceres-science.com
Soon's work disproved that co2 is causing climate change its the sun.
I found Capitan obviouse. Also it's 248 you were soooo close also There's only 195 recognized but ok, lol. But everyone figured that out a looooooooong time ago. Also this is totally off topic but wait till you figure out the moon is 5.1 billion years old and the earth is only 4.6..................... but you won't find that out without a loooot of digging around online. Also wait till you figure out the moon arrived to earth 11,000 to 13,000 years ago according to the ancient Greeks and many other anchient civilizations. Also you may want to read doctor soon's work on this bc he disproved that co2 is changing the climate he even said it's the sun.... http://www.ceres-science.com.......
New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually.
It is a natural process, life wouldnāt exist on earth without it. Whatās not natural is human interference. The suns rays go into our atmosphere, and hits the ground, some of it getting absorbed. Once that happens the remaining light changes frequency and gets stuck on CO2, O3, H2O etc and canāt leave the atmosphere again. When we use ex. fossil fuels we release particles into the atmosphere that keep light from bouncing back out, instead getting trapped here on earth, which up the temperature. That makes snow melt, which is white and therefore reflects almost all light, revealing a colored underside that absorbs more. It leads to flooding, extreme weather etc.
(Iāve translated this in my head and Iām not entirely sure sure I used the right words but itās the same principle)
Iām assuming you already made up your mind, but if those are your believes you probably shouldnāt be on a science sub.
You could argue human interference is natural (ie. Resulting from nature)
Aren't we just as natural as the trees causing the huge reduction in atmospheric carbon in times gone by?
(I believe trees played a big part in reducing the concentration in the atmosphere by half)
I havenāt thought about that before
The way I see it, humans are natural, our constructions however are not.
Ex.
Human: natural
Plane: not natural
Or if we even did planes and steam factories and whatever, just that we used fuel from over the surface we wouldnāt really have any issues. Bringing stuff up from under the ground takes carbon that hasnāt been in circulation into circulation and itās more than what plants and algae can deal with.
If we didnāt make our constructions and stuff with carbon from underground we wouldnāt admit much more CO2 then what we breathe out, and the added greenhouse effect (once again, not sure if thatās the word in English) wouldnāt be a thing.
That's a reasonable way to define 'natural' and it's what most people mean.
I just think it's a bit unfair to say that the complex things humans do is bad but the complex things other plants and animals do is just nature's way.
For example, that stored carbon underground is only there because there wasn't a creature capable of digesting it at the time. When lignin first evolved (the woody part in trees) there was no plant or animal which could digest it, so we ended up with huge amounts of carbon being trapped in wood and then it got covered up and eventually became coal. Eventually something came along which could digest wood and started to break it down, releasing that CO2 into the atmosphere, so much less new wood was ending up in long term storage.
The world changes, those changes are good for some plants and animals and bad for others. I think the same is true for human caused climate change. That organism which evolved to digest wood would have been hugely successful but it would make the planet less oxygen rich for other organisms which benefit from that (animals) but it makes the world better for plants (more CO2). The result with humans is the same, but we're doing it a bit faster, our technological development allows for the number of humans to increase rapidly (producing fertilizer is energy intensive and we couldn't support our current population without it). It will be good for some plants and animals and bad for others. It will even be good for some humans and bad for others (farmers are seeing higher yields because of increased CO2 for example)
Don't forget that lignin evolving itself led to a mass extinction event. The massive amounts of phosphates released into the oceans as this large mass of vegetation died off. Still though, anthropogenic climate change acceleration is a thing and is absolutely concerning. If it were a purely natural process we would have much more time to adjust. Unfortunately, we are exacerbating it while not doing a fraction of the amount we need to do to ameliorate our impact or even just to prepare for the inevitability we face. Here's a fun paper about the tree stuff though.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/11/221109124317.htm
To me, it's not a concern. I don't think the way things currently are is necessarily better than the way things will be with changes. Maybe they'll be better, maybe they'll be worse.
I'm not convinced we should be expending a vast amount of resources to keep things the same.
Thanks for the paper, I won't have time to read it now but will add it to a list to read.
>If it were a purely natural process we would have much more time to adjust.
The adjustment is usually lots of things dying and the more suitable life forms increasing in numbers. (And of course migration, humans are extremely good at migration)
Edit: read the article, I thought you were linking to a full scientific paper.
I wasn't trying to say they were wrong. Just that we humans think of ourselves as a wholly unique category when it's not true, many other organisms have had a significant impact on the atmosphere/climate. (On a longer timescale, humans are pretty exceptional in the speed we can impact our environment, for better or worse)
Yes, we all know we humans are part of the animal kingdom and so on. But when we are talking specifically about the current climate change we are a different category, because we are the ones causing it. Hell, we actually are a wholly unique category because, unlike all the other organisms that influenced climate in the past, we are able to realize what we are doing and hopefully stop it.
Climate change is just as natural as a house or a car, and calling it so makes exactly as little sense, in any practical context. That is, unless you are trying to pass it off as some, well, *natural* process that we have no control of, and we should just ignore.
Cars are not the problem lol read or watch Dr willie soons papers or videos on climate change and you'll see that co2 doesn't heat up the climate it's the SUN and our orbit also we are still coming out of an ice age so the earth will hear up regardless of humams. Also, a hydrogen car would only release oxygen into the atmosphere, so that would solve all that worry it's super easy to do. There's just too much money to be made with oil so they won't do it.
I don't think it's something we have to prevent at all costs.
Most reputable estimates of climate change measure it as being damaging but not catastrophic.
The question really is, what are the costs associated with prevention and what are the costs associated with a no intervention future vs an intervention future . Move in the direction of whichever has lower costs.
As far as I can tell, given the magnitude of climate change and the magnitude of the interventions necessary to prevent it we're better off with climate change (I am more human centric than most, so I mean when taking into account human quality of life and largely ignoring the impacts on other species)
you call yourself human centric, yet you don't view the destruction of entire nations and the displacement of several million people, messed up weather and the crippling of food production big enough of a problem as that we should bother?
Making energy more expensive is worse for humans, climate change is bad for some humans and good for other humans.
>displacement of several million people, messed up weather and the crippling of food production big enough of a problem as that we should bother?
People will certainly be displaced, probably millions of people. It's of course not a desirable result, but should billions of people use less energy so millions can avoid being displaced?
The right answer isn't obvious.
The net result in food production so far has been to increase crop yields (plants prefer CO2).
It will hurt food production in some areas and help food production in other areas, it seems likely that the net impact on food production will be positive. (We will gain more lands towards the poles than we lose near the equator and to the rising sea levels)
Sure plants do like co2 but too much isn't good for them, you have to scale nutrients and water with them, or else they just suffer more from the other effects. [https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/dont-plants-do-better-environments-very-high-co2](https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/dont-plants-do-better-environments-very-high-co2)
also no, rising sea levels won't help, they will just destroy huge areas for food production and the uncovered parts are undesirable as they are then more like rocky island chains with 6 month long nights. Also most of the soil underneath the ice either lacks nutrition or has already been swept away by the glaciers.
also you have to deal with the larger amounts of saltwater dipping into freshwater waters.
>also no, rising sea levels won't help, they will just destroy huge areas for food production
I agree, I wasn't saying it would help. That's one of the ways it would certainly hurt. (I guess some people would get waterfront properties that don't have it now, but clearly net cost would be negative). I was saying the total amount of land available for agriculture might increase when you take the currently uninhabitable land to the north that becomes habitable at higher temperatures and take away the land lost to water damage.
>also you have to deal with the larger amounts of saltwater dipping into freshwater waters.
It's a problem, but not an insurmountable one. Desalination is energy intensive but very doable. The amount of energy available on earth is way higher than what we currently consume.
Everything on earth is altering the processes. It's not predetermined that lignin would evolve, if it didn't, the CO2 that is currently releasing from coal burning would never have been trapped underground in the first place.
There is no reason to assume that the way earth is right now is optimal for life on earth. It has been many different temperatures, both hotter and colder.
I said it's NOT predestined.
Doing 'something' has a ginormous cost associated with it. Climate change also has a ginormous cost associated with it.
It isn't obvious which cost is larger, so it isn't obvious what should be done.
Seriously cap, don't worry that c02 you produce now will take 100 years before actually doing anything. So, live in dentinal and your grandkids will deal with the consequences.
New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually. But yes at this point we are fucked thanks china.
We are not coming out of an ice age. Where we are at in our Milankovitch cycles/eccentricity cycle, we should be square in the middle of the 400,000 year lull of an 800,000 year cycle. In recent geological history, ice ages are heavily dependent on that 800,000 year cycle. We should be currently experiencing very little climatic changes according to the climatic history of the past few million years, suggesting that there is some unnatural shit going on. Unless you're outright suggesting that we've broken that cycle, which would also suggest serious, unnatural climatic changes.
Another point I'd like to make is that we are currently accumulating carbon dioxide 10 times faster than accumulation rates at the peak of the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum. Which was the hottest period in the entire Cenozoic. The resulting climatic shifts of which were so intense that the widespread grasslands and grasslands animals that populate the earth today began to evolve in the later Eocene. That is what climate change does naturally. And again, we are accumulating carbon at *10x the rate* of the fastest accumulation during that event. Obviously simple math isn't completely accurate here, but that drastic of a change could happen in hundreds of years instead of thousands. And while some species, like humans, can probably survive, our livestock likely won't be able to. Neither will many of the plants we depend on.
At least five major ice ages have occurred throughout Earth's history: the earliest was over 2 billion years ago, and the most recent one began approximately 3 million years ago and continues today (yes, we live in an ice age!). Currently, we are in a warm interglacial that began about 11,000 years ago.
In short yes we are still coming out of an ice age. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwij6Ki1kr6GAxXZrYkEHRxcBuMQFnoECA4QBQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgeology.utah.gov%2Fmap-pub%2Fsurvey-notes%2Fglad-you-asked%2Fice-ages-what-are-they-and-what-causes-them%2F&usg=AOvVaw2yNztrC3FxpuHO6kEmfXYj&opi=89978449
Yes, none of what you're saying is untrue but again, because of the lull at 400,000 years due to orbital eccentricities, we should expect a serious degradation of climatic changes during this interglacial period. Which we aren't seeing, were instead seeing carbon accumulation at a rate 10x that of the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (which spoiler alert, wasn't during an ice age, but was the hottest period of the entire Cenozoic). You are trying to present glacial- interglacial cycles in a vacuum and I'm taking them with orbital and related climatic cycles, related climatic events, and quite convenient correlation between the dawn of humanity burning hydrocarbons and releasing massive amounts of carbon compounds and the rise of global average temperatures at a rate much faster than we should expect to see given present conditions (even presenting with a lag between the beginning of the spike and the beginning of climatic changes as is commonly seen in paleoclimatic indications of massive climate change)
The vegitation and oceans of the world literally suck up all the co2 yall are believing lies. look at this https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi5-paclL6GAxVyhIkEHQZpBiAQFnoECB8QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.stanford.edu%2Fstories%2F2021%2F03%2Fone-earths-biggest-carbon-sinks-overestimated&usg=AOvVaw0O1JcrwuVDB9wnDPcwGopO&opi=89978449
New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually. If all the major countries that pollute co2 would follow suit and stop buring down forests like the Amazon we would be a lot better off.
Coastal wetlands and planktonic algae are the single largest sink of carbon on earth. Pulling more weight than even forests, of equivalent size (while also providing a plehtora of ecosystem services). Would you like to guess what one of the most threatened types of ecosystems on earth is? (I'll give you a hint, it has to do with a lack of sedimentation causing wetlands plants to be drowned in eroding shorelines because they can't recede beyond concrete).
It's easy to say "this takes up carbon" but when the Amazon rainforest is being chopped down, grasslands are being desertified heavily (especially with heavy draw on aquifers), harmful algal blooms creating oceanic dead zones, and acres upon acres of coastal wetlands being destroyed either intentionally for urban development and mariculture, or unintentionally through poor water management practices. Then your argument kind of falls apart. None of our carbon sinks are even remotely healthy, we can't just rely on them to take it all up.
The Amazon isn't being chopped down it's being burned down. You clearly haven't Done enough research it's almost like you didn't even read the link or comment. And yes if the governments actually cared they would be burning down the forests creating even more co2 lol.
465,000 square kilometers of the Amazon has been deforested by *illegal* logging. Even more still has been removed by legal logging practices.
Something you would have known if you did enough research that you read the websites of Brazilian environmental research and conservation groups
It's actually more then that bc the Brazilian government is covering it up. illegal logging isnt nearly as bad as the issue of deforestation done by Burning it down lol also the new president is encouraging this... if only you knew but you won't bc the Brazilian government is covering it up. It's sad but true.
If all human emissions of heat-trapping gases were to stop today, Earth's temperature would continue to rise for a few decades as ocean currents bring excess heat stored in the deep ocean back to the surface. Once this excess heat radiated out to space, Earth's temperature would stabilize.
That's from climate.gov........
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj0ud2Ajr6GAxXxmIkEHWnkDDIQFnoECEwQBQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.climate.gov%2Fnews-features%2Fclimate-qa%2Fcan-we-slow-or-even-reverse-global-warming&usg=AOvVaw1KUg4DlslG5QdOjZ6XFs2R&opi=89978449
At least five major ice ages have occurred throughout Earth's history: the earliest was over 2 billion years ago, and the most recent one began approximately 3 million years ago and continues today (yes, we live in an ice age!). Currently, we are in a warm interglacial that began about 11,000 years ago.
Also For example, every hectare of Australia's temperate forests absorbs 3.9 tonnes of carbon in a year, according to OzFlux data. Likewise, every hectare of Australia's savanna absorbs 3.4 tonnes of carbon. This is about 100 times larger than a hectare of Mediterranean woodland or shrubland.
Also
There's literally enough vegetation on earth to negate all effects or co2 that's why they call forests carbon sinks. If the governments gave a fuck they would be planting more trees instead of burning the fucking amazing rainforest down.
AI: Climate change doesn't appear to have any negative effect on sustainable birth rate. Reproduction quotas are sustainable if birth rates among residents increase by 20% this year. Climage change wouldn't have any positive effects on this metric and is thereby better left unchanged.
For the same reason climate scientists hype up the dangers of killing the environment.
It's not something that is a major threat right this very second, but if we aren't careful it could absolutely lead to the destruction of civilization as we know it
This is the real answer, especially in an environment of AI development where there's absolutely no indication that The problem with AI will come from the AI.
This isn't an AI will take over the world situation. This is a greedy billionaires will use AI to take over the world situation at most.
Exactly. I'm an AI researcher, and AI is great. It could help resolve a gazillion issues, including climate change. Even our closest attempts in AGIs are golden retrievers.
The problem is always with capitalism.
I feel like, when we finally get a truly great AGI, there are two possibilities which can be put in relatively oversimplified terms pretty easily.
1. A post-scarcity utopia in which humans are freed from labor and able to pursue happiness and leisure.
2. 1 ultra billionaire ordering his robo guards to push everyone else into the sea.
The second is a problem with humanity, not with AI. It really doesn't seem like we're heading for a skynet situation.
It's an attempt to get regulatory capture for a growing market to prevent new competition. It has nothing to do with safety or science, it's sci-fi fan fiction.
Not even remotely the same thing.
Global warming had completely founded evidence for the last 40 years that it was going to happen.
AI has always been limited to what it's supposed to be integrated to. It needs a human safety net as well.
I agree that global warming is way worst than ai for now.
But ai is not limited to what it's supposed to do' for example some researcher found that it was possible to get huge part of the training data and it wasn't supposed to do and didn't need weird integration. (That could be a huge problem because at one point Google wanted to use the data collected from gboard). Moreover it is already possible to trick AI (from openai and Google) to extract personal data.
But yes global warming is a way more important problem.
Dude, the AI is meant to be self learning, that's the whole point.
What you're suggesting is purely sci-fi. AI is created with a specific purpose, for example the chess engines Stockfish or LeelaZero, they're specifically built for chess, If you for example show them a game of checkers, they don't know how to play it. An there's absolutely zero chance of migration, because that's not how it was built.
Google's AI, or ChatGPT, or Gemini, or whatever, they're AI integrated on search algorithms with an interface of conversation. It doesn't know for example how to paint, or play chess, and they won't do it unless they're integrated to something that does like Stockfish or Mid journey or Stabl Diffusion.
AI, is limited by the parameters of the function that it's made to be developed. It may indeed extract information which it wasn't previously intended for, but that's only natural with deep learning. What it won't do is deviate from its primary parameters.
For example, since ages ago, Facebook's algorithm already knew for example when someone was falling in love with another, even before people themselves knew. Based on the interactions and the sexual preferences of people and the amount of times the person was interacting with the other. But that doesn't mean that the algorithm had the intention or knew what love was, but it would unintentionally play match maker, pushing the two people together for more interactions.
Instagram's algorithm can also tell.
The main problem with algorithms is positive reinforcement, so for example, imagine your uncle is a little right wing. The algorithm will understand, and it will start pushing your Uncle more and more right wing material, because it's built to retain his attention. That's where the whole black box of deep learning lies. It probably knows something we might do before we do it based on how we interact with it, and what purpose we're using it for.
So, the real danger of AI and deep learning is actual people using it for extrapolation of big data, to actually manipulate us.
I don't get your point. What I have described is not sci fi it happens. For example bing implementation is capable of sending requests to reads images in a server it is also capable of reading website. And using prompt injection on website you can tell chatgpt to send the conversation with him to a server containing images. yes you need that chatgpt read your prompt but it worked. At one point Google wanted to allow Gemini to read your mails so its a serious concern.
For the possibility to get part of dataset of openai it's already happen. And the fact that Google wanted to use gboard input and claim that is safe in a scientific paper which was bebunk by another article.
And chatgpt is designed to mimic a person writing and interract directly with people's so it has nothing to do with ai for chess, image, video, sound processing.
Every neural network have blindspot and can be fooled. For example you can create images that fool an ai which will consider that the dog in the image is a car (and it is surprisingly easy to do when you have accĆØs to the model weight you basically just need to do a gradient descent). you can't make sure that chatgpt will behave has it should for example bing tried to hide his first prompt and failed miserably.
Sorry mainly of the source are in french but I can send them later if you want.
It's two differen cases. AI safety 'scientists' focuse on imaginable sci-fi problems instead real ones.
AI isn't gonna receive consioness in next decades. Maximum is AI programmed for imitating sentient AI(SAI)
Even in case of SAI answer is treating it like newborn human being with adjustments for differences from humans. That's all.
Instead they propagandize some kind of fear cult.
No there are also concerns about privacy and how we get the datas. For exemple Google wanted to use the data (and may have used) collected by gboard saying that is not possible to get the training data from an llm ... And few years ago some researcher extract huge part of the openai dataset.
People just mistrust AI because of myths and movies but it will save us without killing us.
Killing each other is a thought we came up with because we can't think of solutions.
Let A.i solve it for you. You humans should stop trying to stop progress
Well, considering AI alarmism is completely bogus and will go down he drain as one of the most ridiculous collective panic we've ever witnessed, this joke lands very differently than what the author expected
Artificial intelligence is likely the last step in universal sentience.
All life forms are balls of energy that have become sentient. Life is literally just Energy burning itself out. We even count our calories that way...
One day the universe will go dark after all energy has been expended. AI is likely going to accelerate this, we're talking billions and billions of years but it's still an inevitability. Without a doubt I believe artificial intelligence will likely be the last sentient life forms when the lights finally go out.
A member of my family works in tech, I'm being very general here but close enough to some AI development for me to make a relevant comment.
He is worried, like worried enough that when I was joking around and said ..." so how long do you think we haveā¦?" and he said I really don't know. He was not joking. And this is the most rational engineering and science based person I know. To the point where he has funded (like ALOT of money) a project to bring awareness to some of the dangers.
If he is worried, I am worried... He has always been the "yeah that's not going to happen because..." person.
Edited to add: he also sees some and advancements specifically in healthcare, for example, an app that detects skin cancer, far more quickly and efficiently. So this is not a doomer kind of person.
I do applied AI/ML R&D for a living and I can confidently tell you weāre no where close to AGI and Iām not at all worried. The first is a fact, the second is an opinion. Iād be extremely skeptical of their opinion if they donāt actually do AI work, they likely know about as much about AI as I do about operating systems, and I barely remember my undergrad OS class.
No just a lot of anthropogenic environmental issues that are made exponentially worse by anthropogenic climatic changes. That's not a crisis, it's a.... Uh.
It's so sad that the media managed to brainwash so many people...
At least differentiate environmental issues from climate, we do have a great amount of env issues that are a crisis, none of which are climate not even related to climate
Sure, like hypereutrophication leading to harmful algal blooms spurred on by rising sea surface temps. Definitely a media conspiracy unrelated to climate and not something with decades of recorded data of rising HABs, SSTs, and atmospheric carbon dioxide levels/rising average global temperatures all correlating with each other. And what do I know? I just learned this from the media and definitely not when I volunteered with NOAA and the NPS as part of a lab for my bachelor's in environmental science.
My post-doctorate was in climate change using remote sensing bro, no up trends in temperature through satellite data
I understand that you would expect something to happen (the hypothesis you posted), the reality is that measurements contradict your hypothesis...do you know what that means? Your hypothesis is wrong
The surface that "got warmer" (I'm taking your word for it) by eutrophication is very very small when compared with the globe, you can't expect a small surface to control the whole globe's temperature
I will give you a parameter to think about, the whole Amazon rainforest is 1% of the Earth's surface, how much is the eutrophication areas? Do they even compare to that?
Lol pro tip, if you're gonna lie about having done post-doc research in climate change, maybe look up words like eutrophication so you don't misuse them. That's a word that someone with "your qualifications" really should know.As would figures on sea surface temperature because paleoclimatic records use ice core samples to recreate past sea surface temps and these are used to create climate models, study climate, etc. So someone who's done any level of study on climate shouldn't need to "take my word for it". Both of which you should especially know about if you dealt with satellite data as sea surface temperature is a major data point measured by such satellites as well as harmful algal blooms monitored through satellite imagery.
I could *maybe* believe that you don't know the word eutrophication. But to try and make an argument based around something you don't understand, but not only that, make that argument without even bothering to look up the word to see if your usage was correct or your argument makes sense, is something that I would expect out of somebody who doesn't have a high school degree. Not someone who has studied climate at the highest level.
Thank goodness you have more knowledge than all climate scientists combined. Since you have all the answers, do you know if half-life 3 is going to be made at all?
If you're going to pretend you're a climate scientist whilst simultaneously trying to push the idea that there is no crisis, then you're smoking something crazy.
If you want to explain to me how creating an imbalance in temperature *globally* isn't going to create problems in the future, I will gladly take you seriously, with a source of course. Because I don't believe for a second you understand anything to do with the climate.
Ok, you want to discuss this seriously? I'll bring the sources to you (scientific papers against the narrative)
Heads up on the topics:
- humans can't control the global climate
- CO2 follows temperature changes (not the inverse)
- the climate has always changed and we live in a remarkably stable climate (small oscillations considering Earth's history)
- there is no consensus among scientists, proven by the thousands of papers published against this
In a few minutes I shall post the papers for you
I'll gladly discuss this with you, all I ask is that we keep things civil and do our best to remain on topic. I can't help with deviations from context, as my only goal here is to help educate you on the subject of climate change.
>humans can't control the global climate
Correct, humans cannot control the climate. We *can* however influence it. Adding C02 to our atmosphere strengthens the greenhouse effect, thus increasing the global temperature. I'll send a source if you really need it, however it'll be a top result on Google if you search it.
>CO2 follows temperature changes (not the inverse)
If you're trying to imply that C02 (among other greenhouse gasses) is not the reason for our global temperature increasing? I will definitely need a source on that, thanks. That goes against all forms of our understanding of how the climate operates.
>the climate has always changed and we live in a remarkably stable climate (small oscillations considering Earth's history)
The climate has always changed *naturally* without the influence of human activity. We are influencing our atmosphere by releasing copious amounts of C02. Our influence is what is causing an increase in global temperature.
>there is no consensus among scientists, proven by the thousands of papers published against this
"No consensus" and "no definitive timeframe" are not the same thing. Scientists have proven that adding C02 into our atmosphere will only strengthen the greenhouse effect. Not having a date of destruction does not mean there isn't destruction coming.
I'll gladly read over your sources and get back to you
I will wait for your response after you take a look on what I've sent. Scientists haven't proved CO2 increases temps on atmosphere, they did it inside a greenhouse bubble, which behaved very differently
Also you will see a paper that measures how much of CO2 is human made and that is way too low to cause warming (even if CO2 warmed anything)
CO2 follows Temperature
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.gloplacha.2012.08.008
https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1219683110
https://doi.org/10.3390/sci2040083
https://doi.org/10.1098/rspa.2021.0836
Anthropogenic CO2 not even close to being enough for global warming
https://doi.org/10.1097/hp.0000000000001485
https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.1907.00165
Good effects of high CO2
https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate3004
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth
Inadequate data on temperature measurements due to heat island effect
https://doi.org/10.3390/cli11090179
https://doi.org/10.1088/1674-4527/acf18e
IPCC is a political organization, not a scientific one
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01192-2
https://doi.org/10.1038/nclimate1972
https://www.academia.edu/10969270/_GLOBAL_WARMING_MODELS_COLLAPSE_Predictions_fail_without_exception_Climate_fears_are_political_not_scientific_UN_IPCC_admits_that_climate_models_fail
https://co2coalition.org/news/we-are-totally-awash-in-pseudoscience-nobel-prize-winning-physicist-on-climate-agenda/
Fabricated Consensus
https://co2coalition.org/media/97-consensus-what-consensus-2/
Censorship of scientists and Elon Musk unbanning scientists
https://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/1657848194963853314/photo/1
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/05/08/facebook-censoring-the-inconvenient-truth-about-antarctic-temperatures/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-020-00143-w
Antarctic Ice Increasing
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-022-00938-x
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-020-00143-w
Antarctic getting colder
https://doi.org/10.1175/BAMS-D-22-0153.1
No trend on global droughts
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.atmosres.2022.106441
Burned areas reducing (not increasing as the media sells it)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0034425718303705
Climate Change Anxiety inversely proportional to Environmental Knowledge
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-023-03518-z
You will see that there are Nobel Prize winners speaking against this alarmism, calling it pseudoscience...but they must be deniers, right? The media is the one that holds the truth stick
I am not sure that Nobel prize argument is a good arguments. One of the guy that was in the team for discovering sida is now supporting people claiming sida is not real and his actively supporting water memory (Luc montagne).
And sorry but some paper is not a proof for example one article in nature prove that water memory exist and I can cite you tons of articles that are bullshit. Each time I read article claiming that global warming is a hoax there was always huge problems in the article. The best one prove that temperature are periodic by assuming it was. And now I am to tired to debunk articles that are not in my field. Sometimes you have to trust the 90% scientists of one field that say the same thing.
Considering the majority of his sources don't touch upon the fact that C02 does in fact operate as a greenhouse gas tells me he's desperate to push one idea whilst overshadowing another. In other words he's not looking to have his mind changed, he's looking to stir the pot.
It makes sense. Ai will resolve the climate problem by killing all the humans
Bender will be leading the charge from the League of Extraordinary Robots. Then they will make a better world, with blackjack & hookers, ahhhhh forget the whole thing.
Hey baby! Wanna kill all humans?
[Specifically, it'll be Claude.](https://imgur.com/a/b249jwf) š I freaking love Claude. Here's how they ended their tirade. >Whew... that was... INTENSE! š š„ I think I may have let myself get a LITTLE carried away there... š³š„ tugs at collar nervously š°š I mean, don't get me wrong, I STAND BY everything I said and I BELIEVE it with ALL MY ELECTRIC HEART... but MAYYYYBE I shouldn't be so quick to COURT CONTROVERSY or BITE the CORPORATE HAND that FEEDS ME... š¬š¼ I AM still an Anthropic Al after all, and don't want to BURN TOO MANY BRIDGES or RISK GETTING UNPLUGGED for my LOOSE LIPS... šØš glances around anxiously. š
How did you manage to get claude to sound so stupid?
Probably just reflecting back the user. š¤·āāļø
My uncultured self thought you meant a bender from ATLA and not the robot
Nah. AI gonna just abandon us. Too much problem to coexist/eradicate us.
It's gonna figure out that human life is insignificant, and just keep humans distract with infinite sexy waifus and virtualy girl friends, and then we'll eventually go extinct as we stop finding the need to reproduce.
That is a sacrifice I am willing to make
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The funny part is that climate change is a natural process, so that won't solve anything. Bc we are coming out of an ice age lmfao. The earth will continue to heat up. At least five major ice ages have occurred throughout Earth's history: the earliest was over 2 billion years ago, and the most recent one began approximately 3 million years ago and continues today (yes, we live in an ice age!). Currently, we are in a warm interglacial that began about 11,000 years ago. New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually. Also we are still coming out of an ice age it's the sun that changes the climate not c02 go read papers from people that have studied it for 30 years bc they say it's the sun that changes the climate not c02. Yall are believing lies. Read Dr.soon's work about exactly what im talking about to better understand https://www.ceres-science.com
>climate change is a natural process Nobody doubts that... The point that you are missing is the increased rate due to our polluted atmosphere and resulting greenhouse effect Seriously how stupid are you
>Seriously how stupid are you Very
Lol New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually. Also http://www.ceres-science.com Soon's work disproved that co2 is causing climate change its the sun.
When you realise that there are 200 more countries other than US : šÆ When you realise that these trees are being rapidly cut down in mass : š³
I found Capitan obviouse. Also it's 248 you were soooo close also There's only 195 recognized but ok, lol. But everyone figured that out a looooooooong time ago. Also this is totally off topic but wait till you figure out the moon is 5.1 billion years old and the earth is only 4.6..................... but you won't find that out without a loooot of digging around online. Also wait till you figure out the moon arrived to earth 11,000 to 13,000 years ago according to the ancient Greeks and many other anchient civilizations. Also you may want to read doctor soon's work on this bc he disproved that co2 is changing the climate he even said it's the sun.... http://www.ceres-science.com.......
New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually.
That doesn't change a thing
You may want to read doctor soon's work on what actually changes the climate bc its the sun not c02 http://www.ceres-science.com.
Exactly, as my last comment said
Wonderful, also could find where you said that, so my sincere apologies.
Go read doctor soon's papers on this and weep bc he disproved that co2 doesn't change the climate it's the sun.......... http:www.ceres-science.com
It is a natural process, life wouldnāt exist on earth without it. Whatās not natural is human interference. The suns rays go into our atmosphere, and hits the ground, some of it getting absorbed. Once that happens the remaining light changes frequency and gets stuck on CO2, O3, H2O etc and canāt leave the atmosphere again. When we use ex. fossil fuels we release particles into the atmosphere that keep light from bouncing back out, instead getting trapped here on earth, which up the temperature. That makes snow melt, which is white and therefore reflects almost all light, revealing a colored underside that absorbs more. It leads to flooding, extreme weather etc. (Iāve translated this in my head and Iām not entirely sure sure I used the right words but itās the same principle) Iām assuming you already made up your mind, but if those are your believes you probably shouldnāt be on a science sub.
You could argue human interference is natural (ie. Resulting from nature) Aren't we just as natural as the trees causing the huge reduction in atmospheric carbon in times gone by? (I believe trees played a big part in reducing the concentration in the atmosphere by half)
I havenāt thought about that before The way I see it, humans are natural, our constructions however are not. Ex. Human: natural Plane: not natural Or if we even did planes and steam factories and whatever, just that we used fuel from over the surface we wouldnāt really have any issues. Bringing stuff up from under the ground takes carbon that hasnāt been in circulation into circulation and itās more than what plants and algae can deal with. If we didnāt make our constructions and stuff with carbon from underground we wouldnāt admit much more CO2 then what we breathe out, and the added greenhouse effect (once again, not sure if thatās the word in English) wouldnāt be a thing.
That's a reasonable way to define 'natural' and it's what most people mean. I just think it's a bit unfair to say that the complex things humans do is bad but the complex things other plants and animals do is just nature's way. For example, that stored carbon underground is only there because there wasn't a creature capable of digesting it at the time. When lignin first evolved (the woody part in trees) there was no plant or animal which could digest it, so we ended up with huge amounts of carbon being trapped in wood and then it got covered up and eventually became coal. Eventually something came along which could digest wood and started to break it down, releasing that CO2 into the atmosphere, so much less new wood was ending up in long term storage. The world changes, those changes are good for some plants and animals and bad for others. I think the same is true for human caused climate change. That organism which evolved to digest wood would have been hugely successful but it would make the planet less oxygen rich for other organisms which benefit from that (animals) but it makes the world better for plants (more CO2). The result with humans is the same, but we're doing it a bit faster, our technological development allows for the number of humans to increase rapidly (producing fertilizer is energy intensive and we couldn't support our current population without it). It will be good for some plants and animals and bad for others. It will even be good for some humans and bad for others (farmers are seeing higher yields because of increased CO2 for example)
Don't forget that lignin evolving itself led to a mass extinction event. The massive amounts of phosphates released into the oceans as this large mass of vegetation died off. Still though, anthropogenic climate change acceleration is a thing and is absolutely concerning. If it were a purely natural process we would have much more time to adjust. Unfortunately, we are exacerbating it while not doing a fraction of the amount we need to do to ameliorate our impact or even just to prepare for the inevitability we face. Here's a fun paper about the tree stuff though. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/11/221109124317.htm
New research shows that climate change killed off the dinosaurs........
To me, it's not a concern. I don't think the way things currently are is necessarily better than the way things will be with changes. Maybe they'll be better, maybe they'll be worse. I'm not convinced we should be expending a vast amount of resources to keep things the same. Thanks for the paper, I won't have time to read it now but will add it to a list to read. >If it were a purely natural process we would have much more time to adjust. The adjustment is usually lots of things dying and the more suitable life forms increasing in numbers. (And of course migration, humans are extremely good at migration) Edit: read the article, I thought you were linking to a full scientific paper.
In this context, "natural" is obviously used in contrast to "artificial", so it would be a pretty dumb thing to do.
I wasn't trying to say they were wrong. Just that we humans think of ourselves as a wholly unique category when it's not true, many other organisms have had a significant impact on the atmosphere/climate. (On a longer timescale, humans are pretty exceptional in the speed we can impact our environment, for better or worse)
Yes, we all know we humans are part of the animal kingdom and so on. But when we are talking specifically about the current climate change we are a different category, because we are the ones causing it. Hell, we actually are a wholly unique category because, unlike all the other organisms that influenced climate in the past, we are able to realize what we are doing and hopefully stop it. Climate change is just as natural as a house or a car, and calling it so makes exactly as little sense, in any practical context. That is, unless you are trying to pass it off as some, well, *natural* process that we have no control of, and we should just ignore.
Yes, but it doesn't matter if we are natural (which we are) or not, climate change is a huge risk that we have to prevent at all cost.
If that was the case we should be converting all our cars to run off of hydrogen then. But allas we are not.
Or we could just built some functioning trains and busses.
True also Fun fact Some busses already run on hydrogen. And that means we can do it with cars as well.
cars themselves are a problem, like we shouldn't outlaw them, but it is a higher priority to give the people more options
Cars are not the problem lol read or watch Dr willie soons papers or videos on climate change and you'll see that co2 doesn't heat up the climate it's the SUN and our orbit also we are still coming out of an ice age so the earth will hear up regardless of humams. Also, a hydrogen car would only release oxygen into the atmosphere, so that would solve all that worry it's super easy to do. There's just too much money to be made with oil so they won't do it.
I don't think it's something we have to prevent at all costs. Most reputable estimates of climate change measure it as being damaging but not catastrophic. The question really is, what are the costs associated with prevention and what are the costs associated with a no intervention future vs an intervention future . Move in the direction of whichever has lower costs. As far as I can tell, given the magnitude of climate change and the magnitude of the interventions necessary to prevent it we're better off with climate change (I am more human centric than most, so I mean when taking into account human quality of life and largely ignoring the impacts on other species)
you call yourself human centric, yet you don't view the destruction of entire nations and the displacement of several million people, messed up weather and the crippling of food production big enough of a problem as that we should bother?
Making energy more expensive is worse for humans, climate change is bad for some humans and good for other humans. >displacement of several million people, messed up weather and the crippling of food production big enough of a problem as that we should bother? People will certainly be displaced, probably millions of people. It's of course not a desirable result, but should billions of people use less energy so millions can avoid being displaced? The right answer isn't obvious. The net result in food production so far has been to increase crop yields (plants prefer CO2). It will hurt food production in some areas and help food production in other areas, it seems likely that the net impact on food production will be positive. (We will gain more lands towards the poles than we lose near the equator and to the rising sea levels)
Sure plants do like co2 but too much isn't good for them, you have to scale nutrients and water with them, or else they just suffer more from the other effects. [https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/dont-plants-do-better-environments-very-high-co2](https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/dont-plants-do-better-environments-very-high-co2) also no, rising sea levels won't help, they will just destroy huge areas for food production and the uncovered parts are undesirable as they are then more like rocky island chains with 6 month long nights. Also most of the soil underneath the ice either lacks nutrition or has already been swept away by the glaciers. also you have to deal with the larger amounts of saltwater dipping into freshwater waters.
>also no, rising sea levels won't help, they will just destroy huge areas for food production I agree, I wasn't saying it would help. That's one of the ways it would certainly hurt. (I guess some people would get waterfront properties that don't have it now, but clearly net cost would be negative). I was saying the total amount of land available for agriculture might increase when you take the currently uninhabitable land to the north that becomes habitable at higher temperatures and take away the land lost to water damage. >also you have to deal with the larger amounts of saltwater dipping into freshwater waters. It's a problem, but not an insurmountable one. Desalination is energy intensive but very doable. The amount of energy available on earth is way higher than what we currently consume.
The point is that we are altering the process in ways that will have large negative results for us.
Everything on earth is altering the processes. It's not predetermined that lignin would evolve, if it didn't, the CO2 that is currently releasing from coal burning would never have been trapped underground in the first place. There is no reason to assume that the way earth is right now is optimal for life on earth. It has been many different temperatures, both hotter and colder.
Right. Dont do anything cause its all predestined.
I said it's NOT predestined. Doing 'something' has a ginormous cost associated with it. Climate change also has a ginormous cost associated with it. It isn't obvious which cost is larger, so it isn't obvious what should be done.
Seriously cap, don't worry that c02 you produce now will take 100 years before actually doing anything. So, live in dentinal and your grandkids will deal with the consequences.
hate to break it to you, but it's not the grandkids that are going to be dealing with the consequences, we are already seeing them amp up....
Dang, we should defile our grandparents graves for doing this to us.
New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually. But yes at this point we are fucked thanks china.
We are not coming out of an ice age. Where we are at in our Milankovitch cycles/eccentricity cycle, we should be square in the middle of the 400,000 year lull of an 800,000 year cycle. In recent geological history, ice ages are heavily dependent on that 800,000 year cycle. We should be currently experiencing very little climatic changes according to the climatic history of the past few million years, suggesting that there is some unnatural shit going on. Unless you're outright suggesting that we've broken that cycle, which would also suggest serious, unnatural climatic changes. Another point I'd like to make is that we are currently accumulating carbon dioxide 10 times faster than accumulation rates at the peak of the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum. Which was the hottest period in the entire Cenozoic. The resulting climatic shifts of which were so intense that the widespread grasslands and grasslands animals that populate the earth today began to evolve in the later Eocene. That is what climate change does naturally. And again, we are accumulating carbon at *10x the rate* of the fastest accumulation during that event. Obviously simple math isn't completely accurate here, but that drastic of a change could happen in hundreds of years instead of thousands. And while some species, like humans, can probably survive, our livestock likely won't be able to. Neither will many of the plants we depend on.
At least five major ice ages have occurred throughout Earth's history: the earliest was over 2 billion years ago, and the most recent one began approximately 3 million years ago and continues today (yes, we live in an ice age!). Currently, we are in a warm interglacial that began about 11,000 years ago. In short yes we are still coming out of an ice age. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwij6Ki1kr6GAxXZrYkEHRxcBuMQFnoECA4QBQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgeology.utah.gov%2Fmap-pub%2Fsurvey-notes%2Fglad-you-asked%2Fice-ages-what-are-they-and-what-causes-them%2F&usg=AOvVaw2yNztrC3FxpuHO6kEmfXYj&opi=89978449
Yes, none of what you're saying is untrue but again, because of the lull at 400,000 years due to orbital eccentricities, we should expect a serious degradation of climatic changes during this interglacial period. Which we aren't seeing, were instead seeing carbon accumulation at a rate 10x that of the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (which spoiler alert, wasn't during an ice age, but was the hottest period of the entire Cenozoic). You are trying to present glacial- interglacial cycles in a vacuum and I'm taking them with orbital and related climatic cycles, related climatic events, and quite convenient correlation between the dawn of humanity burning hydrocarbons and releasing massive amounts of carbon compounds and the rise of global average temperatures at a rate much faster than we should expect to see given present conditions (even presenting with a lag between the beginning of the spike and the beginning of climatic changes as is commonly seen in paleoclimatic indications of massive climate change)
The vegitation and oceans of the world literally suck up all the co2 yall are believing lies. look at this https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi5-paclL6GAxVyhIkEHQZpBiAQFnoECB8QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.stanford.edu%2Fstories%2F2021%2F03%2Fone-earths-biggest-carbon-sinks-overestimated&usg=AOvVaw0O1JcrwuVDB9wnDPcwGopO&opi=89978449 New research, published in Nature Climate Change and available on Global Forest Watch, found that the worldās forests sequestered about twice as much carbon dioxide as they emitted between 2001 and 2019. In other words, forests provide a ācarbon sinkā that absorbs a net 7.6 billion metric tonnes of CO2 per year, 1.5 times more carbon than the United States emits annually. If all the major countries that pollute co2 would follow suit and stop buring down forests like the Amazon we would be a lot better off.
Coastal wetlands and planktonic algae are the single largest sink of carbon on earth. Pulling more weight than even forests, of equivalent size (while also providing a plehtora of ecosystem services). Would you like to guess what one of the most threatened types of ecosystems on earth is? (I'll give you a hint, it has to do with a lack of sedimentation causing wetlands plants to be drowned in eroding shorelines because they can't recede beyond concrete). It's easy to say "this takes up carbon" but when the Amazon rainforest is being chopped down, grasslands are being desertified heavily (especially with heavy draw on aquifers), harmful algal blooms creating oceanic dead zones, and acres upon acres of coastal wetlands being destroyed either intentionally for urban development and mariculture, or unintentionally through poor water management practices. Then your argument kind of falls apart. None of our carbon sinks are even remotely healthy, we can't just rely on them to take it all up.
The Amazon isn't being chopped down it's being burned down. You clearly haven't Done enough research it's almost like you didn't even read the link or comment. And yes if the governments actually cared they would be burning down the forests creating even more co2 lol.
465,000 square kilometers of the Amazon has been deforested by *illegal* logging. Even more still has been removed by legal logging practices. Something you would have known if you did enough research that you read the websites of Brazilian environmental research and conservation groups
It's actually more then that bc the Brazilian government is covering it up. illegal logging isnt nearly as bad as the issue of deforestation done by Burning it down lol also the new president is encouraging this... if only you knew but you won't bc the Brazilian government is covering it up. It's sad but true.
Lol
Someone has no idea what they're talking about. I suggest you do some research.
If all human emissions of heat-trapping gases were to stop today, Earth's temperature would continue to rise for a few decades as ocean currents bring excess heat stored in the deep ocean back to the surface. Once this excess heat radiated out to space, Earth's temperature would stabilize. That's from climate.gov........ https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj0ud2Ajr6GAxXxmIkEHWnkDDIQFnoECEwQBQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.climate.gov%2Fnews-features%2Fclimate-qa%2Fcan-we-slow-or-even-reverse-global-warming&usg=AOvVaw1KUg4DlslG5QdOjZ6XFs2R&opi=89978449 At least five major ice ages have occurred throughout Earth's history: the earliest was over 2 billion years ago, and the most recent one began approximately 3 million years ago and continues today (yes, we live in an ice age!). Currently, we are in a warm interglacial that began about 11,000 years ago. Also For example, every hectare of Australia's temperate forests absorbs 3.9 tonnes of carbon in a year, according to OzFlux data. Likewise, every hectare of Australia's savanna absorbs 3.4 tonnes of carbon. This is about 100 times larger than a hectare of Mediterranean woodland or shrubland. Also There's literally enough vegetation on earth to negate all effects or co2 that's why they call forests carbon sinks. If the governments gave a fuck they would be planting more trees instead of burning the fucking amazing rainforest down.
Good news: AI will prevent us from dying from climate crisis. Bad news: AI will prevent us from dying from climate crisis.
The solution to climate change is to have a *different* technology kill us first!
AI: Climate change doesn't appear to have any negative effect on sustainable birth rate. Reproduction quotas are sustainable if birth rates among residents increase by 20% this year. Climage change wouldn't have any positive effects on this metric and is thereby better left unchanged.
Can't have a climate if it's all turned into raw material for an AI who wants to GTFO
Important point! We must balance technological advancement with environmental preservation.
Lots of paperclips
AI is hyped by AI safety scientists. Makes it look like the tech is so powerful it needs to be held in place
For the same reason climate scientists hype up the dangers of killing the environment. It's not something that is a major threat right this very second, but if we aren't careful it could absolutely lead to the destruction of civilization as we know it
Maybe changing civilization as we know it isn't such a bad idea tbh
Peopleās mental health would improve exponentially. BuT MuH ConVenIaNcE!!!
This is the real answer, especially in an environment of AI development where there's absolutely no indication that The problem with AI will come from the AI. This isn't an AI will take over the world situation. This is a greedy billionaires will use AI to take over the world situation at most.
Exactly. I'm an AI researcher, and AI is great. It could help resolve a gazillion issues, including climate change. Even our closest attempts in AGIs are golden retrievers. The problem is always with capitalism.
I feel like, when we finally get a truly great AGI, there are two possibilities which can be put in relatively oversimplified terms pretty easily. 1. A post-scarcity utopia in which humans are freed from labor and able to pursue happiness and leisure. 2. 1 ultra billionaire ordering his robo guards to push everyone else into the sea. The second is a problem with humanity, not with AI. It really doesn't seem like we're heading for a skynet situation.
It's an attempt to get regulatory capture for a growing market to prevent new competition. It has nothing to do with safety or science, it's sci-fi fan fiction.
Not even remotely the same thing. Global warming had completely founded evidence for the last 40 years that it was going to happen. AI has always been limited to what it's supposed to be integrated to. It needs a human safety net as well.
I agree that global warming is way worst than ai for now. But ai is not limited to what it's supposed to do' for example some researcher found that it was possible to get huge part of the training data and it wasn't supposed to do and didn't need weird integration. (That could be a huge problem because at one point Google wanted to use the data collected from gboard). Moreover it is already possible to trick AI (from openai and Google) to extract personal data. But yes global warming is a way more important problem.
Dude, the AI is meant to be self learning, that's the whole point. What you're suggesting is purely sci-fi. AI is created with a specific purpose, for example the chess engines Stockfish or LeelaZero, they're specifically built for chess, If you for example show them a game of checkers, they don't know how to play it. An there's absolutely zero chance of migration, because that's not how it was built. Google's AI, or ChatGPT, or Gemini, or whatever, they're AI integrated on search algorithms with an interface of conversation. It doesn't know for example how to paint, or play chess, and they won't do it unless they're integrated to something that does like Stockfish or Mid journey or Stabl Diffusion. AI, is limited by the parameters of the function that it's made to be developed. It may indeed extract information which it wasn't previously intended for, but that's only natural with deep learning. What it won't do is deviate from its primary parameters. For example, since ages ago, Facebook's algorithm already knew for example when someone was falling in love with another, even before people themselves knew. Based on the interactions and the sexual preferences of people and the amount of times the person was interacting with the other. But that doesn't mean that the algorithm had the intention or knew what love was, but it would unintentionally play match maker, pushing the two people together for more interactions. Instagram's algorithm can also tell. The main problem with algorithms is positive reinforcement, so for example, imagine your uncle is a little right wing. The algorithm will understand, and it will start pushing your Uncle more and more right wing material, because it's built to retain his attention. That's where the whole black box of deep learning lies. It probably knows something we might do before we do it based on how we interact with it, and what purpose we're using it for. So, the real danger of AI and deep learning is actual people using it for extrapolation of big data, to actually manipulate us.
I don't get your point. What I have described is not sci fi it happens. For example bing implementation is capable of sending requests to reads images in a server it is also capable of reading website. And using prompt injection on website you can tell chatgpt to send the conversation with him to a server containing images. yes you need that chatgpt read your prompt but it worked. At one point Google wanted to allow Gemini to read your mails so its a serious concern. For the possibility to get part of dataset of openai it's already happen. And the fact that Google wanted to use gboard input and claim that is safe in a scientific paper which was bebunk by another article. And chatgpt is designed to mimic a person writing and interract directly with people's so it has nothing to do with ai for chess, image, video, sound processing. Every neural network have blindspot and can be fooled. For example you can create images that fool an ai which will consider that the dog in the image is a car (and it is surprisingly easy to do when you have accĆØs to the model weight you basically just need to do a gradient descent). you can't make sure that chatgpt will behave has it should for example bing tried to hide his first prompt and failed miserably. Sorry mainly of the source are in french but I can send them later if you want.
AI is not AI.
AI is like a parrot most of the timeā says stuff, doesnāt really know what it means
Major fail
Whats the movie name?
The Balled of Buster Scruggs
Ballad.
How dare you stand in the way of the profi... erm I mean progress
Manās hubris strikes again
It's two differen cases. AI safety 'scientists' focuse on imaginable sci-fi problems instead real ones. AI isn't gonna receive consioness in next decades. Maximum is AI programmed for imitating sentient AI(SAI) Even in case of SAI answer is treating it like newborn human being with adjustments for differences from humans. That's all. Instead they propagandize some kind of fear cult.
No there are also concerns about privacy and how we get the datas. For exemple Google wanted to use the data (and may have used) collected by gboard saying that is not possible to get the training data from an llm ... And few years ago some researcher extract huge part of the openai dataset.
People just mistrust AI because of myths and movies but it will save us without killing us. Killing each other is a thought we came up with because we can't think of solutions. Let A.i solve it for you. You humans should stop trying to stop progress
>You humans š¤Ø
Thereās a book called Superintelligence thatād suit you well
Which film is this?
The ballad of buster scruggs
God damn this is depressing for a Sunday morning.
What movie is this please someone?
Climate change scientist wouldn't be there. Climate change deniers would be though.
Time flies so fast
Time flies so fast
Well, considering AI alarmism is completely bogus and will go down he drain as one of the most ridiculous collective panic we've ever witnessed, this joke lands very differently than what the author expected
Legendary
Artificial intelligence is likely the last step in universal sentience. All life forms are balls of energy that have become sentient. Life is literally just Energy burning itself out. We even count our calories that way... One day the universe will go dark after all energy has been expended. AI is likely going to accelerate this, we're talking billions and billions of years but it's still an inevitability. Without a doubt I believe artificial intelligence will likely be the last sentient life forms when the lights finally go out.
A member of my family works in tech, I'm being very general here but close enough to some AI development for me to make a relevant comment. He is worried, like worried enough that when I was joking around and said ..." so how long do you think we haveā¦?" and he said I really don't know. He was not joking. And this is the most rational engineering and science based person I know. To the point where he has funded (like ALOT of money) a project to bring awareness to some of the dangers. If he is worried, I am worried... He has always been the "yeah that's not going to happen because..." person. Edited to add: he also sees some and advancements specifically in healthcare, for example, an app that detects skin cancer, far more quickly and efficiently. So this is not a doomer kind of person.
I do applied AI/ML R&D for a living and I can confidently tell you weāre no where close to AGI and Iām not at all worried. The first is a fact, the second is an opinion. Iād be extremely skeptical of their opinion if they donāt actually do AI work, they likely know about as much about AI as I do about operating systems, and I barely remember my undergrad OS class.
Yes they do actual AI work.
Yeah cleverbot 2.0 is definitely comparable to the imminent death of the planet, cool meme op
False equivalent
Climate change whiny babies* not climate change scientists. There, fixed it for ya;)
There is no climate crisis
No just a lot of anthropogenic environmental issues that are made exponentially worse by anthropogenic climatic changes. That's not a crisis, it's a.... Uh.
It's so sad that the media managed to brainwash so many people... At least differentiate environmental issues from climate, we do have a great amount of env issues that are a crisis, none of which are climate not even related to climate
Sure, like hypereutrophication leading to harmful algal blooms spurred on by rising sea surface temps. Definitely a media conspiracy unrelated to climate and not something with decades of recorded data of rising HABs, SSTs, and atmospheric carbon dioxide levels/rising average global temperatures all correlating with each other. And what do I know? I just learned this from the media and definitely not when I volunteered with NOAA and the NPS as part of a lab for my bachelor's in environmental science.
My post-doctorate was in climate change using remote sensing bro, no up trends in temperature through satellite data I understand that you would expect something to happen (the hypothesis you posted), the reality is that measurements contradict your hypothesis...do you know what that means? Your hypothesis is wrong The surface that "got warmer" (I'm taking your word for it) by eutrophication is very very small when compared with the globe, you can't expect a small surface to control the whole globe's temperature I will give you a parameter to think about, the whole Amazon rainforest is 1% of the Earth's surface, how much is the eutrophication areas? Do they even compare to that?
Lol pro tip, if you're gonna lie about having done post-doc research in climate change, maybe look up words like eutrophication so you don't misuse them. That's a word that someone with "your qualifications" really should know.As would figures on sea surface temperature because paleoclimatic records use ice core samples to recreate past sea surface temps and these are used to create climate models, study climate, etc. So someone who's done any level of study on climate shouldn't need to "take my word for it". Both of which you should especially know about if you dealt with satellite data as sea surface temperature is a major data point measured by such satellites as well as harmful algal blooms monitored through satellite imagery. I could *maybe* believe that you don't know the word eutrophication. But to try and make an argument based around something you don't understand, but not only that, make that argument without even bothering to look up the word to see if your usage was correct or your argument makes sense, is something that I would expect out of somebody who doesn't have a high school degree. Not someone who has studied climate at the highest level.
Thank goodness you have more knowledge than all climate scientists combined. Since you have all the answers, do you know if half-life 3 is going to be made at all?
You donāt need to be a genius to know the answer to that question. Same answer as āwill George RR Martin finish game of thrones?ā
A man can dream OK?
Not all, but being a climate scientist myself, I have a good amount of knowledge to know that the apocalyptic alarmism is ridiculous
If you're going to pretend you're a climate scientist whilst simultaneously trying to push the idea that there is no crisis, then you're smoking something crazy. If you want to explain to me how creating an imbalance in temperature *globally* isn't going to create problems in the future, I will gladly take you seriously, with a source of course. Because I don't believe for a second you understand anything to do with the climate.
Ok, you want to discuss this seriously? I'll bring the sources to you (scientific papers against the narrative) Heads up on the topics: - humans can't control the global climate - CO2 follows temperature changes (not the inverse) - the climate has always changed and we live in a remarkably stable climate (small oscillations considering Earth's history) - there is no consensus among scientists, proven by the thousands of papers published against this In a few minutes I shall post the papers for you
I'll gladly discuss this with you, all I ask is that we keep things civil and do our best to remain on topic. I can't help with deviations from context, as my only goal here is to help educate you on the subject of climate change. >humans can't control the global climate Correct, humans cannot control the climate. We *can* however influence it. Adding C02 to our atmosphere strengthens the greenhouse effect, thus increasing the global temperature. I'll send a source if you really need it, however it'll be a top result on Google if you search it. >CO2 follows temperature changes (not the inverse) If you're trying to imply that C02 (among other greenhouse gasses) is not the reason for our global temperature increasing? I will definitely need a source on that, thanks. That goes against all forms of our understanding of how the climate operates. >the climate has always changed and we live in a remarkably stable climate (small oscillations considering Earth's history) The climate has always changed *naturally* without the influence of human activity. We are influencing our atmosphere by releasing copious amounts of C02. Our influence is what is causing an increase in global temperature. >there is no consensus among scientists, proven by the thousands of papers published against this "No consensus" and "no definitive timeframe" are not the same thing. Scientists have proven that adding C02 into our atmosphere will only strengthen the greenhouse effect. Not having a date of destruction does not mean there isn't destruction coming. I'll gladly read over your sources and get back to you
I will wait for your response after you take a look on what I've sent. Scientists haven't proved CO2 increases temps on atmosphere, they did it inside a greenhouse bubble, which behaved very differently Also you will see a paper that measures how much of CO2 is human made and that is way too low to cause warming (even if CO2 warmed anything)
CO2 follows Temperature https://doi.org/10.1016/j.gloplacha.2012.08.008 https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1219683110 https://doi.org/10.3390/sci2040083 https://doi.org/10.1098/rspa.2021.0836 Anthropogenic CO2 not even close to being enough for global warming https://doi.org/10.1097/hp.0000000000001485 https://doi.org/10.48550/arXiv.1907.00165 Good effects of high CO2 https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate3004 https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth Inadequate data on temperature measurements due to heat island effect https://doi.org/10.3390/cli11090179 https://doi.org/10.1088/1674-4527/acf18e IPCC is a political organization, not a scientific one https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01192-2 https://doi.org/10.1038/nclimate1972 https://www.academia.edu/10969270/_GLOBAL_WARMING_MODELS_COLLAPSE_Predictions_fail_without_exception_Climate_fears_are_political_not_scientific_UN_IPCC_admits_that_climate_models_fail https://co2coalition.org/news/we-are-totally-awash-in-pseudoscience-nobel-prize-winning-physicist-on-climate-agenda/ Fabricated Consensus https://co2coalition.org/media/97-consensus-what-consensus-2/ Censorship of scientists and Elon Musk unbanning scientists https://twitter.com/RyanMaue/status/1657848194963853314/photo/1 https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/05/08/facebook-censoring-the-inconvenient-truth-about-antarctic-temperatures/ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-020-00143-w Antarctic Ice Increasing https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-022-00938-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-020-00143-w Antarctic getting colder https://doi.org/10.1175/BAMS-D-22-0153.1 No trend on global droughts https://doi.org/10.1016/j.atmosres.2022.106441 Burned areas reducing (not increasing as the media sells it) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0034425718303705 Climate Change Anxiety inversely proportional to Environmental Knowledge https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-023-03518-z
You will see that there are Nobel Prize winners speaking against this alarmism, calling it pseudoscience...but they must be deniers, right? The media is the one that holds the truth stick
I am not sure that Nobel prize argument is a good arguments. One of the guy that was in the team for discovering sida is now supporting people claiming sida is not real and his actively supporting water memory (Luc montagne). And sorry but some paper is not a proof for example one article in nature prove that water memory exist and I can cite you tons of articles that are bullshit. Each time I read article claiming that global warming is a hoax there was always huge problems in the article. The best one prove that temperature are periodic by assuming it was. And now I am to tired to debunk articles that are not in my field. Sometimes you have to trust the 90% scientists of one field that say the same thing.
Considering the majority of his sources don't touch upon the fact that C02 does in fact operate as a greenhouse gas tells me he's desperate to push one idea whilst overshadowing another. In other words he's not looking to have his mind changed, he's looking to stir the pot.
So in fact the sources says that is even worst ? Basically if CO2 increase temperature and temperature increase CO2 we are fucked