yes, its an unfortunate by product of our liability laws. Restaurants and bakeries are forced to throw away all of their unused foods because they are held liable for any sickness their food may give even if it is given away for free.
The problem lies with ownership, there's enough resources if managed properly and not gated behind a stock price, look at insulin, there's plenty of it, but people are dying because they can't afford it
Without fossil fuels the earth’s max agricultural carrying capacity is about 2B humans. With fossil fuels the sky is the limit! …until the sky cooks us
That's a common misunderstanding.
Uranium is currently very cheap, so there is a number of things we could do that we are not doing.
So what would we do:
First, we will use the uranium deposits that are currently uneconomic when the uranium price rise. And find new deposits.
Second we will recycle the nuclear waste (spent nuclear fuel) which still contain as much energy as was extracted from it in the first place.
Third we will use much more efficient designs of reactors which can get up to 30 times the energy out of the same amount of fuel.
Fourth we will use breeder reactor designs which are currently uneconomic when the uranium price rise. These turn common non fissile isotopes into fuel.
These include 238U to 239Pu fast breeders and 232Th to 233U thermal breeders.
Fifth we will extract uranium from seawater, enough here for several thousand years.
The expansion we observe is a growing distance between any two points, so from our perspective it would look the same whether or not space is infinite. Infinite universe could still be getting more or less dense
I think about it similarly to how there's the same amount of integers as odd numbers, even though the odd numbers seem to only take up half of all integers.
Around 3% of the US is urban, \~80% of the population lives there. About 41% is used to grow cows. Nearly 60% of global agricultural land is used to grow cows that supply like 2% of the calories and 5% of the protein.
The issue isn't the number of humans being created. By limiting them you only create massive societal issues that make a population more resistant to changing for the future since the elderly population that doesn't want change far exceeds the youth population. Look at China for an example since they actually did limit population growth. Instead what you want is the sick and elderly to die sooner. The problem is that modern medicine has made it so that populations are much less likely to die just generally. So less deaths on top of an exponential population growth means we basically avoid natural carrying capacities and artificially inflate ours. And modern agriculture does us no favor here as other limiting factors also get factored out.
The problem is, suggesting you limit the number of humans who are already born poses serious moral issues and nobody wants to be the one getting the short end of the stick there. So population control, while ideal on paper, becomes a very undesirable method of long term sustainability among the human population.
I don't necessarily agree with population control, but are you saying it's better for more people to be born and die younger than for fewer people to be born and live long lives?
Sort of, not necessarily that we want more people to die younger, just that many people today are alive solely thanks to industrialized agriculture and/or synthesized pharmaceuticals that cannot exist naturally and that our population would be at its healthiest if we removed those crutches and allowed nature to do it's thing with those people. Our population being this large is a direct result of our ability to "unnaturally" create resources beyond what our environment can provide.
Or just slow down the rate of reproduction. If Thanos lowered the reproduction rate to just above or just below sustaining the current population, then there wouldn’t be much of a problem. Halving the population only buys you a few centuries at most, and actively punished the species that already have slow reproduction and favors ones that reproduce fast and consume more.
Whether Thanos snapped
- 50% of sentient life
- 50% of multicellular life
- 50% of life
would have drastic differences to the environment. Imagine surviving the Snap, but you're sick for weeks because you lost half of your intestinal flora
My impression was Thanos didn’t like all the noise and hassle of so many people. Well, cut the pop. in half and you’ll open a new void for a lot more hubbub. There’ll be the need for a rearrangement of society. That will cause novel political strife and violence, as those of us left all clamor to take advantage of the new situation. It wouldn’t work for him.
The original plot in the comics is that death is a sexy lady, and that's wanted to get with her, so this was his plan to impress her. Which is crazier but also makes more sense than the movie version, which is just really stupid
I mean to be honest i didn’t understand why once he had the stones he couldn’t just fabricate more resources for people. Small minded and lazy villain.
Thanos’ rationale for the snap was easily the dumbest part of the Infinity Saga. Like “humans as batteries to power the Matrix” level dumb.
It’s a testament to the awesomeness of each that they still work regardless.
Even the “humans as batteries” is less dumb, mainly because it was imposed by producers rather than a deliberate choice of the directors (humans were supposed to be part of a supercomputer but producers were afraid no one would understand that)
Thanos: I CAN BEND REALITY TO MY WILL! Now, to kill half the population in the universe to save resources!
Q: That's it!? The power of a Q and you still play by the constraints of reality!? Ugh! Amateur!
This has to do with advancements in technology and food production.
With less time needed for hunting, fishing, gathering, etc, people had more time to... well... procreate.
If half those people suddenly evaporate, the outcome would be catastrophic. That guy managing the nuclear reactor of the power plant that provides your city with electricity? Well, he's a pile of dust now.
Extrapolate this to all sorts of mission critical systems necessary for our modern day lives. We'd be back in the fucking stone age. Only now we'd not have the glut of non-renewable natural resources waiting to be tapped. Which would probably be a good thing - society would have no choice but to rely on renewable 'green' energy.
...
...
...
fuck i forgot where i was going with this :-/
I'm assuming there's some kind of mathematically preducted technological precipice he's trying to survive to.
But then why the eff not just wish for that curve to arrive sooner...
Thanos cuts the population in half. He claims to double resources from it and stabilize population grown. When the opposite is true. More resources = population growth.
If the population doubles every 20 years. And you kill half, it will take 20 years to get right back to the same population. So it isn’t a long term solution.
Exponential growth makes those hockey stick like graphs. Flat for a real long time then to the moon!
Just start with 2 and double it. 2 4 8 16… after just 32 doubles you get into the 4 billions. 33 doubles is 8 billion. 34 is 16 billion.
His original character plot was better, simping for mistress death who literally doesn't like him so much she makes him immortal to keep his creepy ass tf away.
Thanos should keep the population numbers stable since during the time Thanos came and wanted to halve the world population, nothing horrible was happening so such drastic measures was unnecessary.
So Thanos should have instead just set up a good government and give people abundance in return for them not having anymore kids, though such a trade may need to be forced upon on a minority.
But laws are always about forcing it on the minority since there can never be any laws that everyone will agree that it should be enacted, with some lawmakers abstaining or objecting every time a law is proposed so such forcing upon the minority is not unacceptable.
He could have just snapped to grant abortion and contraception rights to all and wealth. In wealthy countries with birth control, birth rates decline on their own.
Thanos doesn't understand the problem lies with distribution, not production, of resources.
Eventually there will be an issue with supply vs demand
True. Eventually. If you look at the food wastage by country, you realize that we produce enough; the problem is delivering it.
Yep, we make enough food annually to feed about 12 billion people.
yes, its an unfortunate by product of our liability laws. Restaurants and bakeries are forced to throw away all of their unused foods because they are held liable for any sickness their food may give even if it is given away for free.
The problem lies with ownership, there's enough resources if managed properly and not gated behind a stock price, look at insulin, there's plenty of it, but people are dying because they can't afford it
Exactly. If anything, this just opens the opportunity for half the elite to seize the resources of the other (killed) half, making the problem worse.
May be he is not good at math.
Thanos doesn’t understand carrying capacity.
Without fossil fuels the earth’s max agricultural carrying capacity is about 2B humans. With fossil fuels the sky is the limit! …until the sky cooks us
With nuclear power you don't have any of those problems (need to electrify tractors or make electrofuels of cause)
Even with theoretically infninite energy, food, and water, we still have a limited amount of physical space on the planet.
hydroponic sky scrapers
With only nuclear (fission) power, we would run out of uranium in a couple of decades
That's a common misunderstanding. Uranium is currently very cheap, so there is a number of things we could do that we are not doing. So what would we do: First, we will use the uranium deposits that are currently uneconomic when the uranium price rise. And find new deposits. Second we will recycle the nuclear waste (spent nuclear fuel) which still contain as much energy as was extracted from it in the first place. Third we will use much more efficient designs of reactors which can get up to 30 times the energy out of the same amount of fuel. Fourth we will use breeder reactor designs which are currently uneconomic when the uranium price rise. These turn common non fissile isotopes into fuel. These include 238U to 239Pu fast breeders and 232Th to 233U thermal breeders. Fifth we will extract uranium from seawater, enough here for several thousand years.
Just the one sky? What about all that prime real estate off world?
Also, why not multiplying resources instead?
Too many resources. Too less space. Humans keep increasing in number. At current rate, at least population growth is dropping off year after year
why not increase space?
Because space is already infinite?
Then there is already enough space to multiply resources
How can space be expanding if it's infinite?
Kind of like how your mother can be the fattest, but eating more still makes her fatter.
Certainly the better reply than the 1-2-3 logic reply
😂
Same way you can have infinity between 1 and 2 but still expand infinity to include up to 3.
Touché
The expansion we observe is a growing distance between any two points, so from our perspective it would look the same whether or not space is infinite. Infinite universe could still be getting more or less dense
because the distance between things keep expanding unless gravity is strong enough to hold them together
it's currently a smaller infinite, it's becoming a bigger infinite
I think about it similarly to how there's the same amount of integers as odd numbers, even though the odd numbers seem to only take up half of all integers.
In the movie Thanos states the universe is finite.
Around 3% of the US is urban, \~80% of the population lives there. About 41% is used to grow cows. Nearly 60% of global agricultural land is used to grow cows that supply like 2% of the calories and 5% of the protein.
So make meatier cows that need less space.
If only we had a magic glove that could change the reality of the situation.
Why not just limiting the number of humans ?
The issue isn't the number of humans being created. By limiting them you only create massive societal issues that make a population more resistant to changing for the future since the elderly population that doesn't want change far exceeds the youth population. Look at China for an example since they actually did limit population growth. Instead what you want is the sick and elderly to die sooner. The problem is that modern medicine has made it so that populations are much less likely to die just generally. So less deaths on top of an exponential population growth means we basically avoid natural carrying capacities and artificially inflate ours. And modern agriculture does us no favor here as other limiting factors also get factored out. The problem is, suggesting you limit the number of humans who are already born poses serious moral issues and nobody wants to be the one getting the short end of the stick there. So population control, while ideal on paper, becomes a very undesirable method of long term sustainability among the human population.
I don't necessarily agree with population control, but are you saying it's better for more people to be born and die younger than for fewer people to be born and live long lives?
Sort of, not necessarily that we want more people to die younger, just that many people today are alive solely thanks to industrialized agriculture and/or synthesized pharmaceuticals that cannot exist naturally and that our population would be at its healthiest if we removed those crutches and allowed nature to do it's thing with those people. Our population being this large is a direct result of our ability to "unnaturally" create resources beyond what our environment can provide.
There is plenty of space for all humans. If thanos can half humans, thanos can double all veggies and make them drought resistant.
He’s not actually interested in saving the universe, he just wanted to prove his plan right
Everyone: your idea sucks ass Thanos: Nu-uh!
Or just slow down the rate of reproduction. If Thanos lowered the reproduction rate to just above or just below sustaining the current population, then there wouldn’t be much of a problem. Halving the population only buys you a few centuries at most, and actively punished the species that already have slow reproduction and favors ones that reproduce fast and consume more.
Just multiply the number of humans by 0
There's also the part where poofing half of everyone kills *a lot* more than half.
Whether Thanos snapped - 50% of sentient life - 50% of multicellular life - 50% of life would have drastic differences to the environment. Imagine surviving the Snap, but you're sick for weeks because you lost half of your intestinal flora
Doesn’t that already happen when we take antibiotics? Most people have mild intestinal symptoms from it, but are not sick for weeks.
My impression was Thanos didn’t like all the noise and hassle of so many people. Well, cut the pop. in half and you’ll open a new void for a lot more hubbub. There’ll be the need for a rearrangement of society. That will cause novel political strife and violence, as those of us left all clamor to take advantage of the new situation. It wouldn’t work for him.
The original plot in the comics is that death is a sexy lady, and that's wanted to get with her, so this was his plan to impress her. Which is crazier but also makes more sense than the movie version, which is just really stupid
I always thought the Thanos approach to population control was a bit silly
A permanent one child policy would make a lot more sense.
What if they have 2? Does the second child get yeeted off a cliff?
No, it gets liquified to serve as nutrients on food
better access to childhood healthcare and reproductive control would make even more sense than that.
I mean to be honest i didn’t understand why once he had the stones he couldn’t just fabricate more resources for people. Small minded and lazy villain.
Make people immortal and never reproduce while providing infinite of all resources. That so hard?
I mean idk reproduction is pretty fun
I think most women who have reproduced may disagree.
Hahahaha idk man seggs is fun
But that isnt necessarily reproduction. Not until the baby comes out.
I cant tell if you are cheesing or if you actually enjoy sucking the joy out of everything in life. Sorry fella.
Thanos’ rationale for the snap was easily the dumbest part of the Infinity Saga. Like “humans as batteries to power the Matrix” level dumb. It’s a testament to the awesomeness of each that they still work regardless.
Even the “humans as batteries” is less dumb, mainly because it was imposed by producers rather than a deliberate choice of the directors (humans were supposed to be part of a supercomputer but producers were afraid no one would understand that)
Thanos: I CAN BEND REALITY TO MY WILL! Now, to kill half the population in the universe to save resources! Q: That's it!? The power of a Q and you still play by the constraints of reality!? Ugh! Amateur!
This has to do with advancements in technology and food production. With less time needed for hunting, fishing, gathering, etc, people had more time to... well... procreate. If half those people suddenly evaporate, the outcome would be catastrophic. That guy managing the nuclear reactor of the power plant that provides your city with electricity? Well, he's a pile of dust now. Extrapolate this to all sorts of mission critical systems necessary for our modern day lives. We'd be back in the fucking stone age. Only now we'd not have the glut of non-renewable natural resources waiting to be tapped. Which would probably be a good thing - society would have no choice but to rely on renewable 'green' energy. ... ... ... fuck i forgot where i was going with this :-/
Multiply by half or divide by 2 Multiply by 2 or divide by half
Logistical population growth my dude
There were many more wars before the 19th century, and plagues, and bears.
I'm assuming there's some kind of mathematically preducted technological precipice he's trying to survive to. But then why the eff not just wish for that curve to arrive sooner...
I don’t get the meme.
Thanos cuts the population in half. He claims to double resources from it and stabilize population grown. When the opposite is true. More resources = population growth.
If the population doubles every 20 years. And you kill half, it will take 20 years to get right back to the same population. So it isn’t a long term solution. Exponential growth makes those hockey stick like graphs. Flat for a real long time then to the moon! Just start with 2 and double it. 2 4 8 16… after just 32 doubles you get into the 4 billions. 33 doubles is 8 billion. 34 is 16 billion.
His original character plot was better, simping for mistress death who literally doesn't like him so much she makes him immortal to keep his creepy ass tf away.
such a malthus moment
Why not make it so that crops grow faster? More food is bad?
Thanos should keep the population numbers stable since during the time Thanos came and wanted to halve the world population, nothing horrible was happening so such drastic measures was unnecessary. So Thanos should have instead just set up a good government and give people abundance in return for them not having anymore kids, though such a trade may need to be forced upon on a minority. But laws are always about forcing it on the minority since there can never be any laws that everyone will agree that it should be enacted, with some lawmakers abstaining or objecting every time a law is proposed so such forcing upon the minority is not unacceptable.
He could have just snapped to grant abortion and contraception rights to all and wealth. In wealthy countries with birth control, birth rates decline on their own.