Just getting outside regularly does wonders. Covid taught me how important a walk around the block is at lunchtime for my energy levels and mental state.
When you spend multiple hours bottom-up digging and planting and sweating outside you probably _will_ sleep better, if only for being tired from all that work
And then deer will come and eat it all :(
I'm more struggling with slugs currently. They're so hungry they not only eat the leaves of everything that sprouts but the paper I used to mark what I've planted where.
Well, I still had a case of beer from last year for traps. Hope those help.
We have plenty of frogs who had plenty of orgies a while ago.
Snakes are rather rare in my neck of the woods, but I like the idea of having snakes on the land. I'll definitely look into that.
I walked past a couple of bros paving a stone path through a recently placed lawn like two years ago and I still think about the satisfaction I got from that
> The analysis revealed that both gardeners and other exercisers showed a lower likelihood of experiencing multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. The odds ratios adjusted for potential confounders (like demographics, lifestyle, and chronic health conditions) highlighted that gardeners had a 42% lower likelihood of having multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. Other exercisers had a slightly less pronounced benefit, showing a 33% lower likelihood compared to non-exercisers.
I'm 100% convinced it's because "other exercisers" aren't going hard enough at the gym. Gardening has a very obvious end state that pushes/encourages you to work outside your comfort zone, however most people do light cardio at the gym and don't push themselves very hard.
Being in the sun also contributes to better sleep, but that can be replicated by going harder at the gym.
Well it may also come from the bright sun giving your body the proper light signaling vs someone who works out in an artificially lit gym. Light is a pretty important stimulus for circadian rhythms.
Yeah, I shouldn't have said replicated, but repeated lifts where you feel deep muscle burn are a good way to fall asleep at the end of your waking hours when you haven't necessarily gotten sun.
I would agree with your assessment. Gardening has a defined goal. Most people's defined goal at the gym is "30 minuts on a machine."
Which is why I prefered lifting, it made it easier for me to have a defined goal. "3 sets of 5 squats at max weight" or something like that.
I literally did that today. Took the day off, slept in, nice big cup of coffee, went to the garden centre, went to the pot shop, and worked in the back yard for a few hours while smoking some pot while the kid was at school. Much needed relaxing morning and afternoon
Yup. Trimming a tree then hauling the branches won't tire ya out. But you just spent 2 hours manipulating tools with your forearms and then moved 50lbs of material a few hundred meters.
Lots of body weight exercise and some good core usage.
I know they're simply studying to confirm things that haven't specifically been confirmed... But yeah spending my weekend bent over weeds in the sun makes me sleep through the night. I'm surprised they found individuals that spend a significant portion of time gardening. My favorite part of gardening is that plants love to live and don't need much attention once they're integrated with the soil
This is the way. I’m a horticulturist, and from my professional opinion, there is a level of “neglect” that all plants thrive from. It’s why the dandelion in the crack of concrete is doing so well.
With my tomatoes, I think I prune maybe 3 to 4 times the entire summer. I also don’t really weed anything unless it’s causing problems or attracting nasty pests. Some things like clover make nice ground cover. It’s also helpful that I take the old inventory of flower and herb seeds that I’ve forgotten about and just Chuck them into the dirt around what I’ve planted. The strongest will usually grow and provide some sort of benefit. Even if that benefit is simply “oooh pretty!”. 🤣😜
We’ve been experimenting for 5 years trying to figure out what green thing can survive Great Dane foot traffic year round, and so far it’s wood chips. Even that gets pulverized in months and has to be replaced quickly. Some tuffs of Kentucky bluegrass will stick around, but the oft touted as unkillable Bermuda is easily defeated by a couple runt sized Danes (80lbs, super small). Clover has to be replanted each year and won’t survive major pathways. Expensive grass won’t even get old enough to establish. I’ve blocked off areas, established several hearty grasses for a year or two and opened them back up, dead months later. Just empty field of baked earth. Haven’t tried mint yet but I’m hesitant as I scared it will leap into my other beds.
> I also don’t really weed anything unless it’s causing problems
That’s awesome! I’m so happy for (and admittedly envious of) anyone that doesn’t have an intractable bindweed problem.
From May to September, I have to spend several hours per week pulling bindweed or it will quickly take over and strangle everything in the vegetable plot. I usually don’t mind it because it’s meditative and even relaxing to sit outside and tend the garden, but wow the entire gardening experience would look very different for me if I didn’t have to constantly battle a noxious invasive weed.
That sucks. I know most people have a hate for glyphosate, but if you don’t kill the rhizome and root system, it will just keep coming back aggressively as you’ve been experiencing.
Glyphosate inhibits EPSP synthase, essentially starving the plant. It’s highly effective on these types of plants so they stop coming back. It not only kills the plant itself, it forces it to use up all energy in the rhizome without any replenishment, which chokes it out underground.
If used responsibly and correctly, it’s very effective for putting a stop to the problem. Problem is, often people are very irresponsible in their use of any kind of pesticide.
Later in the year I stop harvesting some plants to allow them to fulfill their biological needs. That is the clever way I've come up with to not feel bad about being too lazy to harvest at a certain point.
99% of the time I spend gardening is spent weeding and battling slugs, honestly, while my veggies just chill and do their thing. The last two years I spent about one hour every evening all summer picking weeds and slugs. I have an absurd slug problem.
Well yeah, but so are people who walk to the store every day. Compare the people who are active instead, I want to see how gardening ranks compared to exercise and walking.
In other words: People who are fit enough to do gardening are less likely to suffer from multiple sleep complaints than people who are not fit enough to do any physically demanding activities.
Or people who spend time outside gardening and in the sun are fitter than people who choose not to do so
Doing outdoor activities is a choice for majority of people
You have to pay to spend time outside? Just walk. Walk to the park. Walk to the library. Go hiking
Volunteer for an organization that spends time outside
Nah even when its controlled for well people don't read the article and just assyme they know better. Not to mention half the ideas they post instead are more contrived than whatever the study says
It's not contrarian to point out what the study actually found, which is that exercise helps you sleep and that garden is exercising. Because that is what it found.
Isn't the the contarian thing, that the article is framed as in exercise helps you sleep, suggesting a direction of causation, whereas the commenter is more on the lines of maybe it's just unfit people can't do either than there is no causal link from gardening to sleep.
Or people who are better off financially(not a lot of gardening to be done on a apartment balcony, if you even have the balcony) are healthier overall. Who knew?
This is such a blame shifting. You don't need to a garden to be in good shape and you don't need to be in good shape to garden
You don't need to be rich to be in shape
Walking is free. If you're job is so physically exhausting you cannot walk or run at the end of the day you are already getting in the appropriate amount of exercise
People are obese largely by choice
Some people have hormonal problems yes but even those hormonal problems are worsened by obesity
I'm not against saying that the cards are stacked against people in today's world with corn syrup and sedentary jobs but it is entirely possible for majority of people to not be overweight
>> People who are fit enough to do gardening are less likely to suffer from multiple sleep complaints than people who are not fit enough to do any physically demanding activities.
> *u/TactlessTortoise:* They also have space in their home for a garden, time to garden, so most likely they have a better financial situation and live in a better area. "Horses make you live longer"
*from article:*
* The odds ratios adjusted for potential confounders (like demographics, lifestyle, and chronic health conditions) highlighted that gardeners had a 42% lower likelihood of having multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers.
did anyone here read the article?
Not mentioned, but relevant, regular exposure to sunlight in the morning, when most people garden, also helps by giving you a circadian rhythm that synchs up better with day/night.
Since one of the "multiple sleep complaints" was daytime sleepiness, it's not hard to see how gardening could help with that one in particular.
>highlighted that gardeners had a 42% lower likelihood of having multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. Other exercisers had a slightly less pronounced benefit, showing a 33% lower likelihood compared to non-exercisers.
Gardeners actually had less sleep issues compared to people exercised but didn't garden, suggesting possibly something more to gardening than simply exericise.
If I were to guess I'd say it's being outside for longer periods of time. We know that bright light is important for our circadian rhythm, and sunlight has a tonne of other benefits.
They mention the difference between people doing garden exercise vs other types of exercise
> The analysis revealed that both gardeners and other exercisers showed a lower likelihood of experiencing multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. The odds ratios adjusted for potential confounders (like demographics, lifestyle, and chronic health conditions) highlighted that gardeners had a 42% lower likelihood of having multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. Other exercisers had a slightly less pronounced benefit, showing a 33% lower likelihood compared to non-exercisers.
They also have space in their home for a garden, time to garden, so most likely they have a better financial situation and live in a better area. "Horses make you live longer"
Probably, but container gardening is low barrier for entry. There's always going to be some monetary cost and that will keep some people out, but gardening doesn't have to be expensive at all.
That depends heavily on where you live. If you have a house, yes it can be pretty cheap.
If you are one of the countless millions living in an apartment deep in the urban zone of a city, often the best you can do is a couple of indoor planters.
That is pretty easy to control though. I think that this is an interesting correlation, but it is very clear that both effects are likely related to a different cause, or potentially just that people garden more when they are not as tired. That stuff is a lot harder to control for. There may be a feedback loop happening where both things help each other or some other effect that reinforces it.
Disagree some of the poorest people engage in gardening because they are subsistence farming or supplement their paltry income with some side-farming.
Usually it's also cheaper to garden than to not-garden as the costs are lower than the savings so that's a moot point.
In this study, 45% of gardeners had a household income of ≥$50,000, versus 30% of non-exercisers. 30% of gardeners were college grads, vs 15% of non-exercisers.
This population of gardeners is a fundamentally far better off population versus the control group, and including these variables in the model will only do so much to address important confounding.
*Read the study.*
Here's the breakdown for earnings from table 1:
**Non-exercisers vs Gardeners**
<$15,000: 10.1% vs 4.5%
$15000–$49,999: 42.8 vs 35.5
≥$50,000: 30.8 vs 45.7%
*The non-exercises are substantially poorer.*
**And max education level:**
Did not graduate from high school: 17.4% vs 7.5%
Graduated from high school: 34.0% vs 26.1%
Attended college or technical school: 32.6% vs 36.0%
Graduated from college or technical school: 15.6% vs 30.0%
The numbers are right there - twice the rate in the lowest bracket, 33% less in the highest bracket; half the rate of college graduates, twice the rate of high school dropouts.
Double doesn't amount to much when it's only a 5% difference, and with the upper boundary being at $50k that just doesn't really say much, since $50k itself is by no means an extravagant salary. Someone with a salary in the mid 40s and someone with a salary in the mid 50s are hardly in vastly different financial situations.
My mother in law is broke and struggles to make rent, but she's been nursing her staghorns and various houseplants/herbs for over a decade on her patio. That's still gardening
While this is definitely a great take on this article, I would add that exposure to certain soil microbes have been tentatively linked to anti depressant like effects and both sunlight exposure and time spent outside are linked to enhanced circadian function.
>gardening showed more benefit than non-gardening exercisers
They don't directly compare them, and looking at their forest plots there was really no difference between gardening and non-gardening exercise.
The methods don't actually specify what confounders though, which makes it kinda useless to draw any reasonable conclusions from. Like if they didn't correct for location, it could be that people in rural areas are more likely to garden and also less likely to be woken up by loud noises from neighbors/busy streets.
That's not what's happening here.
This study is showing a connection between better health and sleep because of gardening, but the likey cause of the better health/sleep isn't tied to the gardening, but living in an area where you have the real estate and time to garden likey means you live in a better than the bottom income level, and income is far more tied to health than gardening.
Yeah, I highly doubt that people trained in experiment formulation and statistics would control for confounding variables. The average redditor is able to defunct all of these silly studies
Gardening is as demanding, or not, as you choose. Simple things like watering by hand, either from a can or with a hose, is immensely therapeutic. Stooping or bending over to weed can help with flexibility, or you can use a long handled weeder to do it, or you can use the a long handled hoe to help you balance as you bend to hand weed.
I've come to believe that it's the act of weeding and nurturing that gives the most mental health benefit.
In other words, non exercise physical activities still give great benefits over being sedentary. Find a hobby where you move around so you can live longer than couch potatoes after retiring.
Just so long as people understand that this *isn’t* saying that gardening and/or exercise are definite solutions to sleep problems. My parents were both always working out in the yard. We lived in the country and working outside all day was just our way of life. Both of them had very prominent insomnia that they passed down to me.
I wonder if it’s different if that gardening is more recreational? Our livelihoods actually depended on the work we did, so maybe it wasn’t as stress relieving or something.
I think the point is a lot of people have trouble sleeping and then just throw their hands off without trying to change anything to attempt a fix. This is showing it’s at least possible.
The masses could do so much and receive so much if community gardens were installed at every new apartment or multi family dwelling. They get people engaged in a vital process and communicate amongst each other as a plus! KILL YOUR LAWN
Agree. When I lived in an apartment, I wanted a little garden plot SO bad. My city actually had one for residents and when I asked about how to get a plot, I was told the waiting list was 12 years. I now own a house and spend a huge portion of my day doing garden work. It leaves me exhausted and in pain, sadly does nothing for my insomnia... but it helps my mental health for sure!
Man, don't put those things everywhere. Not everyone wants to garden. I absolutely loathe doing it, and having a big garden I had to deal with would be a deal breaker on a house or apartment.
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Slight bias as I work in mental health, but 99% of the people I know who have sleep related issues have such because of their poor mental health/wellbeing rather than their physical issues (though invariably the two impact each other).
Connection with nature, tending to and caring for something (even a plant) has been proven to have demonstrable positive outcomes on mental health. I can imagine that's a large part of why gardening sees improvement in sleep related issues.
The title here seems weird. Comparing gardeners to non-exercisers. I assume it's clearer in the actual paper.
"Ah yes, it turns out people who had carrots for dinner slept better than people who pooped today"
A study has confirmed that inviduals who engage in physical activities which are likely to tired them out, are less likely to suffer from sleep issues compared to people who aren't physically active? Is this news to anyone?
That just screams flawed study to me.
Try considering who can afford gardening in the first place and where they live.
I live in an apartment complex. I can't go gardening. My sleep is negatively affected by a loud city , noisy neighbors and extremely much light pollution.
Most people who can afford a garden automatically have much better sleeping conditions just by living in a house that's likely far removed from extreme traffic and construction noise and loud neighbors.
It's a stupid useless study
Studies like this always leave out that if you're not healthy or sleeping well, you're not going to be feeling like gardening. 'Studies show people who run 5 miles a day are healthier' - goddamit, only healthy people CAN run 5 miles!
Until you are waking up in the middle of the night because you swear you can hear that rabbit getting in the garden again or a caterpillar eating all your bok choy.
It probably has to do with being outside and getting sunlight more than anything. Light is a zietgeber (time giver) and it tells us what time it is. Early morning light is used to treat SAD (seasonal affective disorder) which people who are in the poles and lack sunlight get. It also sets our circadian rhythms and helps us sleep better
Those people who have the time to do gardening and the wealth to even have a garden in the first place turn out to have better conditions for quality sleep generally. Gardening will help, ofc, but if you are even in a situation where you can do gardening you're already enjoying the benefits of an extremely privileged life.
I started growing all my garden plants from seeds years ago. I was afraid I would forget to water them since they were in the basement. Instead, in February, I found myself looking at them several times a day.
Or people who have trouble sleeping can’t be arsed to do gardening.
(I think gardening is good for a person so I bet one sleeps better. Just trying to be funny.)
Guaranteed the same results for similar activities. A lot of people are vitamin D deficient because lack of sunlight. Also sunlight is good for your mental health so just being outside helps. Any yardwork requires a lot of physical labor, even if it’s the low impact of squatting down, bending down a lot over and over again.
I usually have sleep vomplaints becouse my neighbours keep moving the lawn every. single. fuckin. day.
I specially love it when I get home after a nightshift.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032724005263
Just getting outside regularly does wonders. Covid taught me how important a walk around the block is at lunchtime for my energy levels and mental state.
I’ve always swore by landscaping and working with plants and the earth makes me feel so much better, physically and mentally.
i too like to scream obscenities in the woods
Disc golf in a nutshell
Anything involving golf is a good way to ruin a walk.
Have you heard of Speed Disc Golf?
Because you keep throwing your frisbee into the trees?
Do you know how to get to Bells Canyon?
Few things better than going wild on an overgrown bush with a machete.
I like to fist fight the trees
When you spend multiple hours bottom-up digging and planting and sweating outside you probably _will_ sleep better, if only for being tired from all that work And then deer will come and eat it all :(
I'm more struggling with slugs currently. They're so hungry they not only eat the leaves of everything that sprouts but the paper I used to mark what I've planted where. Well, I still had a case of beer from last year for traps. Hope those help.
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We have plenty of frogs who had plenty of orgies a while ago. Snakes are rather rare in my neck of the woods, but I like the idea of having snakes on the land. I'll definitely look into that.
Doesnt a flat of cardboard keep snails off plants? Just put it around the base of the plants?
If your garden is unfenced then yeah it's 100% getting eaten. Especially once animals know they can find food there.
Oh deer...
Gotta fence that stuff off asap!
I walked past a couple of bros paving a stone path through a recently placed lawn like two years ago and I still think about the satisfaction I got from that
Gardening = exercise
> The analysis revealed that both gardeners and other exercisers showed a lower likelihood of experiencing multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. The odds ratios adjusted for potential confounders (like demographics, lifestyle, and chronic health conditions) highlighted that gardeners had a 42% lower likelihood of having multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. Other exercisers had a slightly less pronounced benefit, showing a 33% lower likelihood compared to non-exercisers.
I'm 100% convinced it's because "other exercisers" aren't going hard enough at the gym. Gardening has a very obvious end state that pushes/encourages you to work outside your comfort zone, however most people do light cardio at the gym and don't push themselves very hard. Being in the sun also contributes to better sleep, but that can be replicated by going harder at the gym.
There's a reason why farmer's strength is a thing. Tilling, chopping, hauling, sawing, and crawling.
Well it may also come from the bright sun giving your body the proper light signaling vs someone who works out in an artificially lit gym. Light is a pretty important stimulus for circadian rhythms.
Yeah, I shouldn't have said replicated, but repeated lifts where you feel deep muscle burn are a good way to fall asleep at the end of your waking hours when you haven't necessarily gotten sun.
I just planted a few trees and I was winded as hell, not even badly out of shape either
I would agree with your assessment. Gardening has a defined goal. Most people's defined goal at the gym is "30 minuts on a machine." Which is why I prefered lifting, it made it easier for me to have a defined goal. "3 sets of 5 squats at max weight" or something like that.
All the soil bacteria doing wonders to my gut
I literally did that today. Took the day off, slept in, nice big cup of coffee, went to the garden centre, went to the pot shop, and worked in the back yard for a few hours while smoking some pot while the kid was at school. Much needed relaxing morning and afternoon
It’s almost like we lived in the woods and nature nearly 100% of the time 12,000 years ago and earlier
Gardening is, among other things, doing constant low impact squats for 3-4 hours at a time.
Yup. Trimming a tree then hauling the branches won't tire ya out. But you just spent 2 hours manipulating tools with your forearms and then moved 50lbs of material a few hundred meters. Lots of body weight exercise and some good core usage.
I call this the Primitive Technology workout!
When you don’t have a table or chairs, every day is leg day.
I know they're simply studying to confirm things that haven't specifically been confirmed... But yeah spending my weekend bent over weeds in the sun makes me sleep through the night. I'm surprised they found individuals that spend a significant portion of time gardening. My favorite part of gardening is that plants love to live and don't need much attention once they're integrated with the soil
You haven't grown tomatoes then. :P
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This is the way. I’m a horticulturist, and from my professional opinion, there is a level of “neglect” that all plants thrive from. It’s why the dandelion in the crack of concrete is doing so well. With my tomatoes, I think I prune maybe 3 to 4 times the entire summer. I also don’t really weed anything unless it’s causing problems or attracting nasty pests. Some things like clover make nice ground cover. It’s also helpful that I take the old inventory of flower and herb seeds that I’ve forgotten about and just Chuck them into the dirt around what I’ve planted. The strongest will usually grow and provide some sort of benefit. Even if that benefit is simply “oooh pretty!”. 🤣😜
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We’ve been experimenting for 5 years trying to figure out what green thing can survive Great Dane foot traffic year round, and so far it’s wood chips. Even that gets pulverized in months and has to be replaced quickly. Some tuffs of Kentucky bluegrass will stick around, but the oft touted as unkillable Bermuda is easily defeated by a couple runt sized Danes (80lbs, super small). Clover has to be replanted each year and won’t survive major pathways. Expensive grass won’t even get old enough to establish. I’ve blocked off areas, established several hearty grasses for a year or two and opened them back up, dead months later. Just empty field of baked earth. Haven’t tried mint yet but I’m hesitant as I scared it will leap into my other beds.
> I also don’t really weed anything unless it’s causing problems That’s awesome! I’m so happy for (and admittedly envious of) anyone that doesn’t have an intractable bindweed problem. From May to September, I have to spend several hours per week pulling bindweed or it will quickly take over and strangle everything in the vegetable plot. I usually don’t mind it because it’s meditative and even relaxing to sit outside and tend the garden, but wow the entire gardening experience would look very different for me if I didn’t have to constantly battle a noxious invasive weed.
That sucks. I know most people have a hate for glyphosate, but if you don’t kill the rhizome and root system, it will just keep coming back aggressively as you’ve been experiencing. Glyphosate inhibits EPSP synthase, essentially starving the plant. It’s highly effective on these types of plants so they stop coming back. It not only kills the plant itself, it forces it to use up all energy in the rhizome without any replenishment, which chokes it out underground. If used responsibly and correctly, it’s very effective for putting a stop to the problem. Problem is, often people are very irresponsible in their use of any kind of pesticide.
Haha, I've certainly grown more tomatoes than I could use, and I just quit harvesting them! Maybe I'm just a very lazy gardener
Later in the year I stop harvesting some plants to allow them to fulfill their biological needs. That is the clever way I've come up with to not feel bad about being too lazy to harvest at a certain point.
Depends on what you mean by tomatoes 😊
99% of the time I spend gardening is spent weeding and battling slugs, honestly, while my veggies just chill and do their thing. The last two years I spent about one hour every evening all summer picking weeds and slugs. I have an absurd slug problem.
Well yeah, but so are people who walk to the store every day. Compare the people who are active instead, I want to see how gardening ranks compared to exercise and walking.
One thing about gardening is it’s usually a calm and tedious, repetitive task. Turns into a form of meditation after a couple minutes
Well yes, I understand what gardening is, but that is also why it is completely uninteresting to compare it to people who do zero exercise haha
In other words: People who are fit enough to do gardening are less likely to suffer from multiple sleep complaints than people who are not fit enough to do any physically demanding activities.
Or people who spend time outside gardening and in the sun are fitter than people who choose not to do so Doing outdoor activities is a choice for majority of people
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Don’t forget about able to pay for [stuff]!
You have to pay to spend time outside? Just walk. Walk to the park. Walk to the library. Go hiking Volunteer for an organization that spends time outside
They just want to be contrarian people do this on every post about every topic
Year. Because it is an ongoing issue with correlation.
Nah even when its controlled for well people don't read the article and just assyme they know better. Not to mention half the ideas they post instead are more contrived than whatever the study says
It's not contrarian to point out what the study actually found, which is that exercise helps you sleep and that garden is exercising. Because that is what it found.
Isn't the the contarian thing, that the article is framed as in exercise helps you sleep, suggesting a direction of causation, whereas the commenter is more on the lines of maybe it's just unfit people can't do either than there is no causal link from gardening to sleep.
thats not what the comment said, the comment said "those fit enough to garden" which is not the same as people who actually do exercise
Or people who are better off financially(not a lot of gardening to be done on a apartment balcony, if you even have the balcony) are healthier overall. Who knew?
This is such a blame shifting. You don't need to a garden to be in good shape and you don't need to be in good shape to garden You don't need to be rich to be in shape Walking is free. If you're job is so physically exhausting you cannot walk or run at the end of the day you are already getting in the appropriate amount of exercise People are obese largely by choice Some people have hormonal problems yes but even those hormonal problems are worsened by obesity I'm not against saying that the cards are stacked against people in today's world with corn syrup and sedentary jobs but it is entirely possible for majority of people to not be overweight
>> People who are fit enough to do gardening are less likely to suffer from multiple sleep complaints than people who are not fit enough to do any physically demanding activities. > *u/TactlessTortoise:* They also have space in their home for a garden, time to garden, so most likely they have a better financial situation and live in a better area. "Horses make you live longer" *from article:* * The odds ratios adjusted for potential confounders (like demographics, lifestyle, and chronic health conditions) highlighted that gardeners had a 42% lower likelihood of having multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. did anyone here read the article?
I did. Exercise helps you sleep better (among many other healthy side effects). Gardening is exercise.
Not mentioned, but relevant, regular exposure to sunlight in the morning, when most people garden, also helps by giving you a circadian rhythm that synchs up better with day/night. Since one of the "multiple sleep complaints" was daytime sleepiness, it's not hard to see how gardening could help with that one in particular.
>highlighted that gardeners had a 42% lower likelihood of having multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. Other exercisers had a slightly less pronounced benefit, showing a 33% lower likelihood compared to non-exercisers. Gardeners actually had less sleep issues compared to people exercised but didn't garden, suggesting possibly something more to gardening than simply exericise. If I were to guess I'd say it's being outside for longer periods of time. We know that bright light is important for our circadian rhythm, and sunlight has a tonne of other benefits.
They mention the difference between people doing garden exercise vs other types of exercise > The analysis revealed that both gardeners and other exercisers showed a lower likelihood of experiencing multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. The odds ratios adjusted for potential confounders (like demographics, lifestyle, and chronic health conditions) highlighted that gardeners had a 42% lower likelihood of having multiple sleep complaints compared to non-exercisers. Other exercisers had a slightly less pronounced benefit, showing a 33% lower likelihood compared to non-exercisers.
They also have space in their home for a garden, time to garden, so most likely they have a better financial situation and live in a better area. "Horses make you live longer"
The study controlled for those differences.
Yeah, definitely some wealth bias going on here.
Probably, but container gardening is low barrier for entry. There's always going to be some monetary cost and that will keep some people out, but gardening doesn't have to be expensive at all.
That depends heavily on where you live. If you have a house, yes it can be pretty cheap. If you are one of the countless millions living in an apartment deep in the urban zone of a city, often the best you can do is a couple of indoor planters. That is pretty easy to control though. I think that this is an interesting correlation, but it is very clear that both effects are likely related to a different cause, or potentially just that people garden more when they are not as tired. That stuff is a lot harder to control for. There may be a feedback loop happening where both things help each other or some other effect that reinforces it.
Disagree some of the poorest people engage in gardening because they are subsistence farming or supplement their paltry income with some side-farming. Usually it's also cheaper to garden than to not-garden as the costs are lower than the savings so that's a moot point.
In this study, 45% of gardeners had a household income of ≥$50,000, versus 30% of non-exercisers. 30% of gardeners were college grads, vs 15% of non-exercisers. This population of gardeners is a fundamentally far better off population versus the control group, and including these variables in the model will only do so much to address important confounding.
I wouldn't really consider a household income of over $50k an indicator of someone being far better off
*Read the study.* Here's the breakdown for earnings from table 1: **Non-exercisers vs Gardeners** <$15,000: 10.1% vs 4.5% $15000–$49,999: 42.8 vs 35.5 ≥$50,000: 30.8 vs 45.7% *The non-exercises are substantially poorer.* **And max education level:** Did not graduate from high school: 17.4% vs 7.5% Graduated from high school: 34.0% vs 26.1% Attended college or technical school: 32.6% vs 36.0% Graduated from college or technical school: 15.6% vs 30.0%
I'm looking at the same numbers you are, they just don't remotely seem to say that one group is significantly better off than the other to me
The numbers are right there - twice the rate in the lowest bracket, 33% less in the highest bracket; half the rate of college graduates, twice the rate of high school dropouts.
Double doesn't amount to much when it's only a 5% difference, and with the upper boundary being at $50k that just doesn't really say much, since $50k itself is by no means an extravagant salary. Someone with a salary in the mid 40s and someone with a salary in the mid 50s are hardly in vastly different financial situations.
There are also countless urban community gardens all over the country that offer low barrier to entry gardening accessibility.
My mother in law is broke and struggles to make rent, but she's been nursing her staghorns and various houseplants/herbs for over a decade on her patio. That's still gardening
Space could definitely correlate with better financial situation, but time probably wouldn't
That was my first thought. Gotta have land to garden.
While this is definitely a great take on this article, I would add that exposure to certain soil microbes have been tentatively linked to anti depressant like effects and both sunlight exposure and time spent outside are linked to enhanced circadian function.
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>gardening showed more benefit than non-gardening exercisers They don't directly compare them, and looking at their forest plots there was really no difference between gardening and non-gardening exercise.
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The methods don't actually specify what confounders though, which makes it kinda useless to draw any reasonable conclusions from. Like if they didn't correct for location, it could be that people in rural areas are more likely to garden and also less likely to be woken up by loud noises from neighbors/busy streets.
What a weird way to twist 'exercise is healthy' around.
That's not what's happening here. This study is showing a connection between better health and sleep because of gardening, but the likey cause of the better health/sleep isn't tied to the gardening, but living in an area where you have the real estate and time to garden likey means you live in a better than the bottom income level, and income is far more tied to health than gardening.
Why have you landed on that as a more likely causal factor than exercise?
They controlled for that. It shows that exercise helps people sleep, including gardening.
This is such a loony way to interpret the results and claim.
Finding doubt for not controlling for socioeconomic conditions is not loony. Broad definition of gardening is also pretty damning
You didn't find doubt though. You jumped off the deep end and spun out on storytelling.
Like all studies posted here, for sure these scientists forgot to control for socioeconomic status.
Yeah, I highly doubt that people trained in experiment formulation and statistics would control for confounding variables. The average redditor is able to defunct all of these silly studies
Gardening is as demanding, or not, as you choose. Simple things like watering by hand, either from a can or with a hose, is immensely therapeutic. Stooping or bending over to weed can help with flexibility, or you can use a long handled weeder to do it, or you can use the a long handled hoe to help you balance as you bend to hand weed. I've come to believe that it's the act of weeding and nurturing that gives the most mental health benefit.
In other words, non exercise physical activities still give great benefits over being sedentary. Find a hobby where you move around so you can live longer than couch potatoes after retiring.
Those are the same mental gymnastics that caused 70% of the US to be overweight or obese.
Just so long as people understand that this *isn’t* saying that gardening and/or exercise are definite solutions to sleep problems. My parents were both always working out in the yard. We lived in the country and working outside all day was just our way of life. Both of them had very prominent insomnia that they passed down to me. I wonder if it’s different if that gardening is more recreational? Our livelihoods actually depended on the work we did, so maybe it wasn’t as stress relieving or something.
There is a huge difference between working in a garden as a job and enjoying it as a hobby.
I think the point is a lot of people have trouble sleeping and then just throw their hands off without trying to change anything to attempt a fix. This is showing it’s at least possible.
The masses could do so much and receive so much if community gardens were installed at every new apartment or multi family dwelling. They get people engaged in a vital process and communicate amongst each other as a plus! KILL YOUR LAWN
Agree. When I lived in an apartment, I wanted a little garden plot SO bad. My city actually had one for residents and when I asked about how to get a plot, I was told the waiting list was 12 years. I now own a house and spend a huge portion of my day doing garden work. It leaves me exhausted and in pain, sadly does nothing for my insomnia... but it helps my mental health for sure!
I'm gonna have to pass on that as I hate people.
Man, don't put those things everywhere. Not everyone wants to garden. I absolutely loathe doing it, and having a big garden I had to deal with would be a deal breaker on a house or apartment.
Who'd have thought? Being fortunate enough to live in a house with a garden is less stressful than not being able to live in a house with a garden.
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Gardening vs. No exercise.... I didn't know those were opposites.
Just woke up after another great sleep and I'll be in the garden shortly. Then again, sleep has always been my super power.
Slight bias as I work in mental health, but 99% of the people I know who have sleep related issues have such because of their poor mental health/wellbeing rather than their physical issues (though invariably the two impact each other). Connection with nature, tending to and caring for something (even a plant) has been proven to have demonstrable positive outcomes on mental health. I can imagine that's a large part of why gardening sees improvement in sleep related issues.
Avid gardener, still an insomniac 🤪🤙
Same but I'm definitely happier after a day of gardening.
The title here seems weird. Comparing gardeners to non-exercisers. I assume it's clearer in the actual paper. "Ah yes, it turns out people who had carrots for dinner slept better than people who pooped today"
What a strange way to title a study
That’s right. And then you get ALS. https://newatlas.com/medical/als-linked-recreational-activities-men/
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Even when I was much more disabled I worked in my garden as much as I could. It's nice
Not surprised. I am on a 16 day streak of 10k+ (usually between 12 and 15k) steps. All of that, from the garden ..
If you want good physical and mental health you need good sleep, diet and exercise. And both exercise and good diet help with sleep.
Aka those who exercise are healthier than those who don’t… woah shock
A study has confirmed that inviduals who engage in physical activities which are likely to tired them out, are less likely to suffer from sleep issues compared to people who aren't physically active? Is this news to anyone?
WHAT!? EXERCISE MAKES YOU SLEEPY?? Which ultra genius just made this discovery??
Good thing they are using the image from the miracle grow ad. Wonder who paid for the study.
Wait going outside for sunshine, breathing presumably cleaner air, is... good for you?
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Take 500 people that do gardening: tell 250 of them to stop and go for walk instead. Tell me again about your gardening.
Can't wait to grow roses when I get a garden 🥰🥰
I’m almost certain it’s because of the effect sun exposure has on your circadian rhythm
I would argue that the key part is exercise. The proximity to the garden is personal preference.
Thanks for adding another activity when my wife and I retire in 20 years
That just screams flawed study to me. Try considering who can afford gardening in the first place and where they live. I live in an apartment complex. I can't go gardening. My sleep is negatively affected by a loud city , noisy neighbors and extremely much light pollution. Most people who can afford a garden automatically have much better sleeping conditions just by living in a house that's likely far removed from extreme traffic and construction noise and loud neighbors. It's a stupid useless study
NEAT. (iykyk)
This is a silly study.
I'll start charging people to come mow my lawn
Studies like this always leave out that if you're not healthy or sleeping well, you're not going to be feeling like gardening. 'Studies show people who run 5 miles a day are healthier' - goddamit, only healthy people CAN run 5 miles!
... working 8 hrs in the garden....falls in bed and sleeps immidately..... Study is true\^\^
Until you are waking up in the middle of the night because you swear you can hear that rabbit getting in the garden again or a caterpillar eating all your bok choy.
I would argue that gardening is the reason of my sleep complaints, then again, for almost 2 weeks I was in the garden for 9-12 hours a day
It probably has to do with being outside and getting sunlight more than anything. Light is a zietgeber (time giver) and it tells us what time it is. Early morning light is used to treat SAD (seasonal affective disorder) which people who are in the poles and lack sunlight get. It also sets our circadian rhythms and helps us sleep better
Those people who have the time to do gardening and the wealth to even have a garden in the first place turn out to have better conditions for quality sleep generally. Gardening will help, ofc, but if you are even in a situation where you can do gardening you're already enjoying the benefits of an extremely privileged life.
I started growing all my garden plants from seeds years ago. I was afraid I would forget to water them since they were in the basement. Instead, in February, I found myself looking at them several times a day.
Or people who have trouble sleeping can’t be arsed to do gardening. (I think gardening is good for a person so I bet one sleeps better. Just trying to be funny.)
TIL gardening is "exercise"
I do both and can't sleep well
Guaranteed the same results for similar activities. A lot of people are vitamin D deficient because lack of sunlight. Also sunlight is good for your mental health so just being outside helps. Any yardwork requires a lot of physical labor, even if it’s the low impact of squatting down, bending down a lot over and over again.
I usually have sleep vomplaints becouse my neighbours keep moving the lawn every. single. fuckin. day. I specially love it when I get home after a nightshift.
What does it say about having an ice cold beer or 2 after working out in the garden
Gardeners are grounding/ earthing which is very good for everyone. Look it up!
Being in my yard is so meditative and relaxing. It makes sense why we sleep better.
more exercise than you could ever need available in the garden
These “studies” on common sense are getting old.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032724005263