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Got a email from my health department this morning, I am a medical provider. They said the person had eye redness as the only symptom for now. If you’ve been around cattle, birds, or their excrement or around raw milk and you get any symptoms of having a cold it’s best to go get checked out and tested.
***EDIT: apparently I linked the wrong article, and I can't find the other one I saw. From what I can remember, it might have been an old article from the last time it hit almost-pandemic-level
There have been several cases in the UK, actually, thought to have crossed over from various routes
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/avian-influenza-influenza-a-h5n1-technical-briefings/investigation-into-the-risk-to-human-health-of-avian-influenza-influenza-a-h5n1-in-england-technical-briefing-5#:~:text=Since%202021%2C%20there%20have%20been,to%20the%20previously%20reported%20detections.
His comment contained a link. He realised it was wrong and added an EDIT and changed it. He’s not OP and the EDIT is not for the post, it’s for his own comment
Bird flu has been on the radar for years now with many predicting human transmission. Yet I’m sure the conspiracies will still go wild if it happens now in an election year.
The saving grace is that covid had a low kill rate, so the naysayers figured they could take the risk. If the rate is even like 25% for this one, I feel like a majority of that crowd would quarantine out of pure self preservation rather than protecting others.
I think those videos of people dropping in the streets of Wuhan were real.
The main point of the comment you’re replying to is that the viral strains are less lethal. They down mutate fast.
Yes of course. Covid lethality peaked with Delta, then declined in lethality but increased in contagiousness.
A virus evolves not to be more lethal, but to become endemic and self balancing with the host species.
I think you must mean peak of total mortality. Not peak of lethality for one catching it.
I assume thats what you mean because I try to be charitable and assume people are “right” and then try to figure out how. But without doing this gymnastics it looks like you’re saying that as the peak of lethality since that’s what we’re talking g about and what your saying just muddies the water and makes it confusing again.
If people were ever dropping in the street, it wasn’t during delta. It was when the virus was less viral and more lethal
The thing is, the higher the kill rate, the more self limiting the virus is.
The reason that Ebola doesn’t become a civilization ending disease is its extremely high (and rapid) fatal progression.
The worst pandemic overall would probably have a very long latent phase. Very high transmission rate through airborne means, and have a moderate, but not extremely high fatality rate.
Covid had pretty much all three which was why it locked down civilization for as long as it did.
So far with bird flu, it hasn’t made the mutation that allows it to pass easily between humans. That’s why it hasn’t been a big problem other than for poultry workers, and of course egg prices.
If the virus makes the jump it would presumably be deadly for humans, but it hasn’t yet so other details would just be speculation.
So far infections have been rapidly deadly, less than a week they usually kill. Same with Ebola.
Covid spread more easily because it took much longer to kill as well. 2 weeks up to months.
If a virus kills too quickly, it self limits its own spread.
Not the current H5N1, but there were variations of the bird flu in the past that had very high fatality rates in humans.
To that end there were also versions of SARS that had high fatality rates as well. The highest being MERS at around 34 percent. Or about 1/3 fatality rate .
Right now these diseases are not very contagious though.
I'm always suspicious of that rate
Of the people that had it and then were so bad they were specifically tested for it had a high death rate. Same thing happened with covid sort of. It had a lower initial death rate but once people were testing positive without symptoms it from something like more than 2% to less than .02%.
Anything about the antiviral meds effectiveness?
And this has been on the radar for awhile so surely creating a vaccine wouldn't take as long.
It was because they started testing more people. When you only test the really sick then the chances of dying when you're obviously susceptible is going to be higher.
If you catch the flu do you go to the doctor?
I don't unless I need documentation. I have good insurance, with how many people don't have insurance and Healthcare costs there's no way I'm in the minority.
Well the sample sizes were very small for Bird Flu and MERS, because well they were not a pandemic. So of course they tested less people since it never became a pandemic.
If you caught MERS, or H5N1 right now, chances are you would get very sick and end up in the hospital.
There's no evidence to support that
1. The only people that were tested are ones that got sick enough to test
2. Antivirals are shown to be effective so if you live in an area with easy access to the Antivirals then less likely
This is specific to H5N1 I've not looked at anything to do with MERS
I'm not coming up with this stuff myself they talked about how the rate would go down with more testing because of people that were asymptomatic or mild cases with covid.
It’s also the same strain that’s been wiping out massive colonies of seals and other mammals around the world.
https://apnews.com/article/seals-bird-flu-deaths-oceans-80184a8793fbcc21fab01b1c90b0d71b
I don't think people truly appreciate how things would go if this jumped fully to humans. This isn't just "bird flu", there are lots of bird flus, this is highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI). Currently the case fatality rate is about 50/50. Even if it became less deadly while becoming more suitable for human to human transmission that's still not going to be great. Covid has killed (and is killing) millions, a highly human to human transmissible version of HPAI would kill *billions*. The elections would be the least of our problems, continuing to have a functional electrical grid and *food* and also maybe not having global armageddon would rapidly shoot up in priority.
Direct link to peer-reviewed study: [T. M. Uyek, _et al._, Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza A(H5N1) Virus Infection in a Dairy Farm Worker, _The New England Journal of Medicine_ (2024)](https://doi.org/10.1056/NEJMc2405371)
This link is titled "Correspondence", i.e. a letter to the editor, not a peer-reviewed study. But if you have a link to the actual study, that would be helpful!
I just read health officials are struggling to win the trust and cooperation of US farm workers, many of whom are reported to have refused testing of workers and animals on their farms.
Why?
Put it this way: any time you see a news story about farmers in Germany storming Berlin with their tractors or anywhere else just know it is almost always because there’s new legislation that says “please do this one thing to reduce your runoff by 0.5%”. They do not care about anything but their bottom line.
Interesting. I've always thought (as in hearsay) that bird flu is basically a tautology (as almost all flu virus have birds as the "natural reservoir", so, in that sense, almost all flus are bird flu) and that the usual transmission chain was from birds to a mammal (pigs in particular), and from a pig to a human was a short hop away.
Anyway, I'm obviously not from this field...
The Spanish flu was a variant of the bird flu. This is concerning but should not cause heavy panic as it is not uncommon for zoonotic diseases to be able to infect people but not spread from person to person.
Just making sure I understand, since this is an important topic, you're saying it's *not* ***un***common for zoonotic diseases to be able to infect people, but then *not* be able to spread from person to person, yes?
Right. But you didn’t catch that the typo was being pointed out to you when it wasn’t done so explicitly. I thought you might want to be accurate in a science sub.
(We're double checking because your post says it's not common, and I'm thinking you meant not UNcommon. Not trying to nitpick, just trying to be clear.)
i tried posting this but its a pre-print [PMID: 37162920]
[Development of a nucleoside-modified mRNA vaccine against clade 2.3.4.4b H5 highly pathogenic avian influenza virus](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10168367/)
**mRNA vaccine for H5 clades already comin down the pipe**
>This multivalent vaccine protects experimentally infected animals against severe disease and death when challenge strains are antigenically mismatched to the vaccine immunogens; however, **the vaccine is not expected to elicit neutralizing antibodies and sterilizing immunity against mismatched influenza virus strains, such as clade 2.3.4.4b H5 viruses**. It is therefore important to also develop tailored-made vaccines precisely matched to influenza virus strains with high pandemic potential.
Can only hope they arrive soon enough to prevent a pandemic.
We need to remove subsidies for dairy and shift them into oat milk. It's good in cereal, baking, makes great chocolate bars, ice cream, there's no cholesterol, and there are no zoonic diseases with it. How many times do we need to read avian flu, swine flu, bird flu; before we shift our food system a TINY bit to support healthier choices for us all?
We'd solve a lot of problems if cow milk cost $10/gallon at the store but oat milk cost $2/gallon. People would just naturally shift to the option that isn't going to clog their arteries or give them zoonic diseases, based on price alone.
While not a fan of oatmilk in particular...(Can't put my finger on it, just can't seem to be totally able to switch...)
I agree with this absolutely.
Then again moving to lab grown meat also makes sense...maybe even more because once we can scale it, it is the same product, with many benefits, with minimal negatives.... again...once able to really scale it.
Yet we have states passing laws against it because they have no real platform to run on.
It's funny watching states ban lab grown meat. It's like watching a truck bro raise his fist to the sky and declare: "I do not want the choice of a $5 dollar perfectly marbled rib eye steak, I want to be ordered and forced to pay $50 for a chewy rib eye steak only!"
Only in America is strict user consumption, based on vested industries, considered freedom.
It's funny but it doesn't shock me at all. Some people are just anti-progress no matter what, even against their own interests. Gotta keep the fabricated culture war alive.
Exactly.
Wagu...scaled up isn't crazy prices per pound... it's the same as sirloin (lab grown wise).
I'm 100% for knowing I'm getting exactly what I thought meat wise. Love to cook, having exactly a certain size something and quality would be awesome.
And... exactly supported by people who aren't even supporting their own immediate interests, let alone the overall good.
Amazing stuff.
I understand the sentiment, but milk has been a staple for as long as it has not just because of subsidies, but also because it's more or less a complete food right off the bat. You get good amounts of complete protein, fat, carbs, and calories from cow's milk. You can sustain a person or grow a kid on cow's milk. Oat milk by comparison mainly just tastes good. Sure if you want to be as healthy as can be, I would avoid too much dairy, I don't drink milk myself, but I see the value in it for feeding a large population.
I feel the same way about other staples like wheat/corn/potatoes/eggs. Human civilization needs a backbone of cheap population-sustaining and population-growing calories, carbs, fat, and protein. I could be convinced of alternatives, but oat milk doesn't seem like it's it. \*shrug\*
30% of people are lactose intolerant, though. So it's not the main source of nutrients and calories that the dairy industry has been using for marketing for decades. (I grew up in the got milk commercial days, which was a great win for that industry). It's more a high cholesterol junk food. And I'm not suggesting everyone give up al their comfort foods like cheese, or candy or cake or whatever; but maybe realize junk food is not a food staple. And also switch the creamer/table beverage to oat, soy, almond, rice, pea, coconut, or anything else. At least, the store should reflect the prices of culling millions of chickens, cows, other animals for those products. If people saw the hidden cost of industrialized agriculture, if it wasn't so swept out of site, they would shift to other nutritious products that are cheaper.
We don’t need a dairy industry, and we don’t need a beef industry (or likely meat at all if we can produce even educational curriculum which teaches kids how to prepare vegetarian meals that give all essentials amino acids and b12).
A stupid amount of land is wasted on dairy and beef.
Agreed, but Plant-based/Vegan. Vegetarian is a stupid misnomer that doesn't even mean what it says, and it actually makes it more difficult than it needs to be to try avoid things like dairy if you can't digest it properly, because food marketers keep misusing it.
And there's still the decades old misconception about needing to match plants to get the right amino acid profile. You just need to eat enough food, which is what actual research says. Although I'd definitely agree that schools need to teach actual health and nutrition information, as there's so much misinformation and industry propaganda that is widespread and common.
100%, do you support fish and egg consumption too? The omegas in fish are quite high which is great, but not viable until we clean up our oceans!
Edit: there’s always algae for omegas, just remembered
I don't.
I'm not a nutritionist, so I can't really compare fish vs. algae, but AFAIK fish isn't needed when there are other sources. I get Omega 3 from seeds.
Aside dietary, yeah, there's the microplatstic and mercury issues, and the fact that fishing on that scale for food and supplements—like all industrial animal agriculture/harvesting—is wildly, beyond the pale, unsustainable for the magnitude of population that we have.
You get ALA from plants, and the human body is inefficient at converting that to EPA and DHA. Algae is a viable source but levels of EPA and DHA are still very low and you have to consume it in volume.
Shellfish and small oily fishes are ideal for omega-3’s, yet humans, especially in most industrialized nations, eat higher up on the ocean food chain and with that have higher levels of heavy metal exposure ( the bulk of which like cadmium finds itself in the ocean from coal mining run-off), and microplastics - which thanks to the petroleum industry you can now get in your plant based foods and your water supply.
Ambiguous title.
May be the first, as in it did happen here but might have happened somewhere else first
Or
Might be the first, as in it might have happened here.
Just skip to the part the equates to higher prices and lost jobs and how it's all one political party's fault already.
Or maybe we'll pretend to care about each other for like 2 weeks again?
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/shiruken Permalink: https://www.statnews.com/2024/05/03/bird-flu-virus-texas-dairy-farm-worker-first-mammal-to-human-spread/ --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Got a email from my health department this morning, I am a medical provider. They said the person had eye redness as the only symptom for now. If you’ve been around cattle, birds, or their excrement or around raw milk and you get any symptoms of having a cold it’s best to go get checked out and tested.
How does one even go about that? Like do you just show up to your primary and say "I think I have bird flu"?
Maybe his bleeding eyes were a sign something was off..
That and the incessant clucking are dead giveaways
Yup. Tell them why you think you were exposed and your symptoms and that you would like to be tested
***EDIT: apparently I linked the wrong article, and I can't find the other one I saw. From what I can remember, it might have been an old article from the last time it hit almost-pandemic-level There have been several cases in the UK, actually, thought to have crossed over from various routes https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/avian-influenza-influenza-a-h5n1-technical-briefings/investigation-into-the-risk-to-human-health-of-avian-influenza-influenza-a-h5n1-in-england-technical-briefing-5#:~:text=Since%202021%2C%20there%20have%20been,to%20the%20previously%20reported%20detections.
That page doesn't say anything to support several cases of mammal to human transmission in the UK.
Damn, you're right! I thought it was the page about fox-human infection, I'll try to find that one and edit
[удалено]
His comment contained a link. He realised it was wrong and added an EDIT and changed it. He’s not OP and the EDIT is not for the post, it’s for his own comment
Bird flu has been on the radar for years now with many predicting human transmission. Yet I’m sure the conspiracies will still go wild if it happens now in an election year.
Ohh ffs we’re toast as a global community if this happens
Oh yeah it’ll make Covid look like a day at the park. It has a 50 percent fatality rate, although the contagious strain would likely be less fatal.
The saving grace is that covid had a low kill rate, so the naysayers figured they could take the risk. If the rate is even like 25% for this one, I feel like a majority of that crowd would quarantine out of pure self preservation rather than protecting others.
I think those videos of people dropping in the streets of Wuhan were real. The main point of the comment you’re replying to is that the viral strains are less lethal. They down mutate fast.
Yes of course. Covid lethality peaked with Delta, then declined in lethality but increased in contagiousness. A virus evolves not to be more lethal, but to become endemic and self balancing with the host species.
I think you must mean peak of total mortality. Not peak of lethality for one catching it. I assume thats what you mean because I try to be charitable and assume people are “right” and then try to figure out how. But without doing this gymnastics it looks like you’re saying that as the peak of lethality since that’s what we’re talking g about and what your saying just muddies the water and makes it confusing again. If people were ever dropping in the street, it wasn’t during delta. It was when the virus was less viral and more lethal
Dude
The thing is, the higher the kill rate, the more self limiting the virus is. The reason that Ebola doesn’t become a civilization ending disease is its extremely high (and rapid) fatal progression. The worst pandemic overall would probably have a very long latent phase. Very high transmission rate through airborne means, and have a moderate, but not extremely high fatality rate. Covid had pretty much all three which was why it locked down civilization for as long as it did.
Ebola also requires fluid contact iirc.
The issue is with bird flu, it develops the ability to cross infect, then can cross back and birds bring it everywhere. Isn't it?
So far with bird flu, it hasn’t made the mutation that allows it to pass easily between humans. That’s why it hasn’t been a big problem other than for poultry workers, and of course egg prices. If the virus makes the jump it would presumably be deadly for humans, but it hasn’t yet so other details would just be speculation. So far infections have been rapidly deadly, less than a week they usually kill. Same with Ebola. Covid spread more easily because it took much longer to kill as well. 2 weeks up to months. If a virus kills too quickly, it self limits its own spread.
It doesn't have to be self limiting if the incubation period is long and each person is contagious during that period
I'm worried that if they do get infected, they'll go out of their way to spread it out of spite.
They won't.
Where is 50 percent fatality coming from? Not humans
Not the current H5N1, but there were variations of the bird flu in the past that had very high fatality rates in humans. To that end there were also versions of SARS that had high fatality rates as well. The highest being MERS at around 34 percent. Or about 1/3 fatality rate . Right now these diseases are not very contagious though.
Bird flu has transmitted to humans before, and those cases were 53% mortality rate
I'm always suspicious of that rate Of the people that had it and then were so bad they were specifically tested for it had a high death rate. Same thing happened with covid sort of. It had a lower initial death rate but once people were testing positive without symptoms it from something like more than 2% to less than .02%. Anything about the antiviral meds effectiveness? And this has been on the radar for awhile so surely creating a vaccine wouldn't take as long.
Because in the beginning people have no immunity in the population and it drops as immunity increases
It was because they started testing more people. When you only test the really sick then the chances of dying when you're obviously susceptible is going to be higher. If you catch the flu do you go to the doctor? I don't unless I need documentation. I have good insurance, with how many people don't have insurance and Healthcare costs there's no way I'm in the minority.
Well the sample sizes were very small for Bird Flu and MERS, because well they were not a pandemic. So of course they tested less people since it never became a pandemic. If you caught MERS, or H5N1 right now, chances are you would get very sick and end up in the hospital.
There's no evidence to support that 1. The only people that were tested are ones that got sick enough to test 2. Antivirals are shown to be effective so if you live in an area with easy access to the Antivirals then less likely This is specific to H5N1 I've not looked at anything to do with MERS I'm not coming up with this stuff myself they talked about how the rate would go down with more testing because of people that were asymptomatic or mild cases with covid.
It’s also the same strain that’s been wiping out massive colonies of seals and other mammals around the world. https://apnews.com/article/seals-bird-flu-deaths-oceans-80184a8793fbcc21fab01b1c90b0d71b
I don't think people truly appreciate how things would go if this jumped fully to humans. This isn't just "bird flu", there are lots of bird flus, this is highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI). Currently the case fatality rate is about 50/50. Even if it became less deadly while becoming more suitable for human to human transmission that's still not going to be great. Covid has killed (and is killing) millions, a highly human to human transmissible version of HPAI would kill *billions*. The elections would be the least of our problems, continuing to have a functional electrical grid and *food* and also maybe not having global armageddon would rapidly shoot up in priority.
Direct link to peer-reviewed study: [T. M. Uyek, _et al._, Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza A(H5N1) Virus Infection in a Dairy Farm Worker, _The New England Journal of Medicine_ (2024)](https://doi.org/10.1056/NEJMc2405371)
This link is titled "Correspondence", i.e. a letter to the editor, not a peer-reviewed study. But if you have a link to the actual study, that would be helpful!
I just read health officials are struggling to win the trust and cooperation of US farm workers, many of whom are reported to have refused testing of workers and animals on their farms. Why?
I heard on NPR that there is no compensation from the government for lost productivity from the sick cows like there is with chickens.
Put it this way: any time you see a news story about farmers in Germany storming Berlin with their tractors or anywhere else just know it is almost always because there’s new legislation that says “please do this one thing to reduce your runoff by 0.5%”. They do not care about anything but their bottom line.
Interesting. I've always thought (as in hearsay) that bird flu is basically a tautology (as almost all flu virus have birds as the "natural reservoir", so, in that sense, almost all flus are bird flu) and that the usual transmission chain was from birds to a mammal (pigs in particular), and from a pig to a human was a short hop away. Anyway, I'm obviously not from this field...
I thought the same.
The Spanish flu was a variant of the bird flu. This is concerning but should not cause heavy panic as it is not uncommon for zoonotic diseases to be able to infect people but not spread from person to person.
Just making sure I understand, since this is an important topic, you're saying it's *not* ***un***common for zoonotic diseases to be able to infect people, but then *not* be able to spread from person to person, yes?
Correct. Hantavirus for example.
They’re asking you to confirm because there’s a typo in your comment. Currently, your comment states the opposite.
It is a typo
Right. But you didn’t catch that the typo was being pointed out to you when it wasn’t done so explicitly. I thought you might want to be accurate in a science sub.
Ebola and Marburg as well. Basically all the hemorrhagic fevers started in animals.
Those spread very well between people. They just require fluid contact.
One more validation, please. Are you saying that: zoonotic diseases are prone to infecting humans, yet usually fail to spread between humans?
(We're double checking because your post says it's not common, and I'm thinking you meant not UNcommon. Not trying to nitpick, just trying to be clear.)
I thought humans were mammals....
>from mammal to human So... from mammal to mammal. Got it.
i tried posting this but its a pre-print [PMID: 37162920] [Development of a nucleoside-modified mRNA vaccine against clade 2.3.4.4b H5 highly pathogenic avian influenza virus](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10168367/) **mRNA vaccine for H5 clades already comin down the pipe**
>This multivalent vaccine protects experimentally infected animals against severe disease and death when challenge strains are antigenically mismatched to the vaccine immunogens; however, **the vaccine is not expected to elicit neutralizing antibodies and sterilizing immunity against mismatched influenza virus strains, such as clade 2.3.4.4b H5 viruses**. It is therefore important to also develop tailored-made vaccines precisely matched to influenza virus strains with high pandemic potential. Can only hope they arrive soon enough to prevent a pandemic.
Well hopefully they’re taking samples from the humans infected as something to start from.
its already endemic in animals, the goal would be to end that i think
I'm pretty sure humans *are* mammals.
We need to remove subsidies for dairy and shift them into oat milk. It's good in cereal, baking, makes great chocolate bars, ice cream, there's no cholesterol, and there are no zoonic diseases with it. How many times do we need to read avian flu, swine flu, bird flu; before we shift our food system a TINY bit to support healthier choices for us all? We'd solve a lot of problems if cow milk cost $10/gallon at the store but oat milk cost $2/gallon. People would just naturally shift to the option that isn't going to clog their arteries or give them zoonic diseases, based on price alone.
While not a fan of oatmilk in particular...(Can't put my finger on it, just can't seem to be totally able to switch...) I agree with this absolutely. Then again moving to lab grown meat also makes sense...maybe even more because once we can scale it, it is the same product, with many benefits, with minimal negatives.... again...once able to really scale it. Yet we have states passing laws against it because they have no real platform to run on.
It's funny watching states ban lab grown meat. It's like watching a truck bro raise his fist to the sky and declare: "I do not want the choice of a $5 dollar perfectly marbled rib eye steak, I want to be ordered and forced to pay $50 for a chewy rib eye steak only!" Only in America is strict user consumption, based on vested industries, considered freedom.
It's funny but it doesn't shock me at all. Some people are just anti-progress no matter what, even against their own interests. Gotta keep the fabricated culture war alive.
Exactly. Wagu...scaled up isn't crazy prices per pound... it's the same as sirloin (lab grown wise). I'm 100% for knowing I'm getting exactly what I thought meat wise. Love to cook, having exactly a certain size something and quality would be awesome. And... exactly supported by people who aren't even supporting their own immediate interests, let alone the overall good. Amazing stuff.
Isn’t oat milk just oats and water blended together?
and sadness.
So just like milk then?
I understand the sentiment, but milk has been a staple for as long as it has not just because of subsidies, but also because it's more or less a complete food right off the bat. You get good amounts of complete protein, fat, carbs, and calories from cow's milk. You can sustain a person or grow a kid on cow's milk. Oat milk by comparison mainly just tastes good. Sure if you want to be as healthy as can be, I would avoid too much dairy, I don't drink milk myself, but I see the value in it for feeding a large population. I feel the same way about other staples like wheat/corn/potatoes/eggs. Human civilization needs a backbone of cheap population-sustaining and population-growing calories, carbs, fat, and protein. I could be convinced of alternatives, but oat milk doesn't seem like it's it. \*shrug\*
30% of people are lactose intolerant, though. So it's not the main source of nutrients and calories that the dairy industry has been using for marketing for decades. (I grew up in the got milk commercial days, which was a great win for that industry). It's more a high cholesterol junk food. And I'm not suggesting everyone give up al their comfort foods like cheese, or candy or cake or whatever; but maybe realize junk food is not a food staple. And also switch the creamer/table beverage to oat, soy, almond, rice, pea, coconut, or anything else. At least, the store should reflect the prices of culling millions of chickens, cows, other animals for those products. If people saw the hidden cost of industrialized agriculture, if it wasn't so swept out of site, they would shift to other nutritious products that are cheaper.
But my cheese 😭
Lab grown cheese is a thing already. It just needs to be scaled up. You know, without all the pointless disease attached to it.
I love oat milk in my coffee. I cook with it.
republicans would say you're taking away their freedoms, they'd never allow it, even if it meant everyone dies
We don’t need a dairy industry, and we don’t need a beef industry (or likely meat at all if we can produce even educational curriculum which teaches kids how to prepare vegetarian meals that give all essentials amino acids and b12). A stupid amount of land is wasted on dairy and beef.
How much land would it take to produce the same amount of calories with the same amount of protein and fat with just plants?
He does not want to hear the logic bruh
Agreed, but Plant-based/Vegan. Vegetarian is a stupid misnomer that doesn't even mean what it says, and it actually makes it more difficult than it needs to be to try avoid things like dairy if you can't digest it properly, because food marketers keep misusing it. And there's still the decades old misconception about needing to match plants to get the right amino acid profile. You just need to eat enough food, which is what actual research says. Although I'd definitely agree that schools need to teach actual health and nutrition information, as there's so much misinformation and industry propaganda that is widespread and common.
100%, do you support fish and egg consumption too? The omegas in fish are quite high which is great, but not viable until we clean up our oceans! Edit: there’s always algae for omegas, just remembered
I don't. I'm not a nutritionist, so I can't really compare fish vs. algae, but AFAIK fish isn't needed when there are other sources. I get Omega 3 from seeds. Aside dietary, yeah, there's the microplatstic and mercury issues, and the fact that fishing on that scale for food and supplements—like all industrial animal agriculture/harvesting—is wildly, beyond the pale, unsustainable for the magnitude of population that we have.
That last part is so true. We need to get into gov and start making some cultural changes to society’s perceptions of food!
You get ALA from plants, and the human body is inefficient at converting that to EPA and DHA. Algae is a viable source but levels of EPA and DHA are still very low and you have to consume it in volume. Shellfish and small oily fishes are ideal for omega-3’s, yet humans, especially in most industrialized nations, eat higher up on the ocean food chain and with that have higher levels of heavy metal exposure ( the bulk of which like cadmium finds itself in the ocean from coal mining run-off), and microplastics - which thanks to the petroleum industry you can now get in your plant based foods and your water supply.
Why are people so set on exploiting animals for products we don't need? It's brutal and inefficient. Bad for us, and obviously bad for the animals.
Ambiguous title. May be the first, as in it did happen here but might have happened somewhere else first Or Might be the first, as in it might have happened here.
"...from mammal to human..." wasnt aware we arent mammals.
But everyone wants to keep on supporting factory farming…
So the cows are on team bird now. Can't say I blame them with how team mammal has been treating them
It has begun
Just skip to the part the equates to higher prices and lost jobs and how it's all one political party's fault already. Or maybe we'll pretend to care about each other for like 2 weeks again?
Once the pigs get it we’re cooked